Islam and the Fort Hood shootings

Let us keep in mind that the OT value system also needs serious revision. The major revision would be to adopt the conclusions of 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis that the OT is mostly myth and embellishment.

By doing this, the hate that oozes from the OT can be listed as simply myth and Christians and Muslims who cite the OT for committing acts against non-believers will no longer be valid.

Some of the hate that emanates from the OT:

"Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.

Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)

Joshua:

Joshua 8: 12,000 men and women, all the people of Ai, killed.

Joshua 10: Joshua completely destroys Gibeon ("larger than Ai"), Makeddah, Libnah, Lachish, Eglon, Hebron, Debir. "He left no survivors."

Joshua 11: Hazor destroyed. [Paul Johnson, A History of the Jews (1987), estimates the population of Hazor at ?> 50,000]
TOTAL: if Ai is average, 12,000 x 9 = 108,000 killed.

Judges 1: 10,000 Canaanites k. at Battle of Bezek. Jerusalem and Zephath destroyed.
Judges 3: ca. 10,000 Moabites k. at Jordan River.

Judges 8: 120,000 Midianite soldiers k. by Gideon

Judges 20: Benjamin attacked by other tribes. 25,000 killed.

1 Samuel 4: 4,000 Isrealites killed at 1st Battle of Ebenezer/Aphek. 30,000 Isr. k. at 2nd battle.

David:

2 Samuel 8: 22,000 Arameans of Damascus and 18,000 Edomites killed in 2 battles.

2 Samuel 10: 40,000 Aramean footsoldiers and 7,000 charioteers killed at Helam.

2 Samuel 18: 20,000 Israelites under Absalom killed at Ephraim.

1 Kings 20: 100,000 Arameans killed by Israelites at Battle of Aphek. Another 27,000 killed by collapsing wall.

2 Chron 13: Judah beat Israel and inflicted 500,000 casualties.

2 Chron 25: Amaziah, king of Judah, k. 10,000 from Seir in battle and executed 10,000 POWs. Discharged Judean soldiers pillaged and killed 3,000.

2 Chron 28: Pekah, king of Israel, slew 120,000 Judeans

TOTAL: That comes to about 1,283,000 mass killings (hate crimes) specifically enumerated in the Bible.
"

Actually the word terrorism is not the point.

The point is, do people have the right to their conscience? Islam has certainly used terror to negate that right. But, like other ideologies of hate, it does it through physical oppression in war and terrorism, it does it through economic repression through taxes and banning religious assemblies, it does it through propaganda like defaming a religion is a violation of human rights. If people have the right to personal conscience, then each of us can worship as we wish in any place in the world without fear of repercussion. (But if your worship is to force another from their right of conscience then you have a problem.)

The idea of an ideology that says there is only one way to god/truth and then justifies the oppression of the other group (infidels, idolators, pagans, communists, and non-communists...) is simply a poor ideology that promotes hatred and should be called such.

The shooting incident is just one event. No one is drawing a conclusion on one event. All of us take the data in front of us and try to put together what reality is. In doing so we draw conclusions from the totality of our own experience and the information we have gathered. If islam is suffereing from an image problem, it may be because islam has an ideological problem. Hindus are addressing the problem of caste (even though all Hindu scriptures argue against caste, we are forced to confront the problem by ignorant persons). Christians, some, are facing up to the horror they have caused in the world. Are muslims ready to face up to the primitive ideology of the koran and set it aside? Or, is this just another example of muslim denial of the inequity and cruelty of the koranic value system?

hariaum

Apparently some of you missed the update on the USA taxpayers' War on Terror and Aggression. Once again:

Our War on Terror and Aggression:

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops, 3,469 killed action and 871 non-combat and 93,040 – 101,537 Iraqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

10) Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops killed in action 562, 176 killed in non-combat situations as of 9/02/09.

11) 13 USA citizen soldiers killed at Ft. Hood by a Muslim fanatic.

Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

- Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

- Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

- Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they have threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???

- North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel hopefully a fresh sense of civility is afoot.

- North Korea was taken off the terrorist country list recently.

- Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

- The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “square one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

- Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

- Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanhistan and Pakistan.

- Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

- Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

- Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

- Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

- The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Radovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war -- charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia. Karadzic's trial has started.

- And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

I am not a fan of GW. And I think invading Iraq was not the right thing to do, and said it even before Obama did. But take a cold look at the shoe throwing incident.

If that man had thrown a shoe at Saddam, or a Saudi prince, or an Ayatollah, or even a picture of Mo and allah, he would have been beheaded and likely his family killed off. The fact that this man insulted GW in front of the world and was not killed is because of GW and the war in Iraq. The freedom to express himself by throwing a shoe at a head of state was given to him by the man he was insulting.

GW's proof that this was just is in the throwing of the shoe.(yes he was probably tortured by the current Iraqi regime) As many people as Saddam killed, it did not gain the the people of Iraq the right to insult a leader. The civilians that died due to US intervention is a tragedy and I wish it never happened. But, in the cold light of reason, the freedoms of Iraqis have grown, life is improved. Can anyone say that of minorities in most other islamic nations?

hariaum

hariaum

So, SAYTHEWRONGTHING, when "collateral damage" kills 600,000 human noncombatants in a war of agression carried out for money and oil, as confirmed by one of the most powerful men in America(former) Alan Greenspan, that is not terrorism.

But, when a person kills to make the invaders leave his country, or to fight against a nation that keeps their puppets whom are brutal dictators ruling Islamic countries, that person is a terrorist.

Your logic is twisted.

"Hopefully, Americans will wake up to the fact that not all Muslims are Islamist terrorists, but all Islamist terrorists ARE Muslims, and to act on that reality - not bury their heads in the sands of PC-correctness."
Posted by dotherightthing

Yes, and all IRA terrorists are Catholic, and most Basque terrorists are Catholic, and most KKK terrorists are southern Baptists. You know "Islamist" (more correctly Islamic) means Muslim, right?

Terrorism is a tactic that many groups have used throughout history. The most active terrorist organization that I'm familiar with throughout the 20th century was the KKK. Right now, Islamic groups are the most aggressive. It may change during the course of this century.

When you say "act on that reality," what do you mean? Do you want to violate the Constitution, try to outlaw or discriminate against a religion? Lock them all up? Deport them? Even the American citizens? What actions are you suggesting?

wmarkw,

Sorry about the mistake about your beliefs. There's another blogger on this cite with a similar handle, with whom I've also corresponded, and I think I just confused you.

I don't dispute the problems you cite in the Islamic world, I just feel I'm taking the longer view. Remember, as little as 100 years ago, most of the restrictions on women you refer to would have been commonplace in the west. They still occur in India and much of the Orient as well, among largely non-Muslim populations. Indeed, most of the world as recently as 500 years ago had extreme restrictions on women, forced arranged marriage, formal or informal polygamy, and savage executions for minor (or non-existent) crimes. The west changed, the orient is changing, and I feel the middle-east can change as well.

You seem to be saying that snap judgments based on your beliefs about groups of people are generally right. I can't get behind that belief. I'm old enough to remember the generalizations about African Americans, women, Orientals, and such, and how wrong most of them were.

Women, it turns out, are not too emotional to be logical, Mexicans aren't lazy, African American men aren't oversexed rapists, Japanese aren't inscrutable (whatever that is) and Southerners aren't stupid and inbred.

The point I was trying to make was that making a judgment that Muslims are too violent to be trusted based on the last 50 years or so makes no more sense than to make that judgment about Oriental folks based on Japan's actions in the 2nd world war.

Hopefully, Americans will wake up to the fact that not all Muslims are Islamist terrorists, but all Islamist terrorists ARE Muslims, and to act on that reality - not bury their heads in the sands of PC-correctness.

I have been very disturbed what I have been hearing on another news network about C Street in Washington D.C. I was wondering why not enough has been picked up on this story . The C street residence is a secretive religious group which houses members of our Congressman and Senators. Jeff Sharlet has done extensive research on this group and wrote a book called "The Family" Senator Ensign from Nevada just left the organization for drawing attention to it. This is a good investigative story that we the people need to be informed about. These lawmakers need to be accountable for the laws they cast upon us.Especially when they believe they are above the law. They are Democrats and Republicians that belong to this organization. We need a good journalist to do an extensive investigation on these members.Please don't ignor this story. We also need to know if they list this house as a church do they receive tax benefits also which is important. What happened to seperation of church and state.

Christian vs. Islamic ideology/theology: (for those eyes that have not seen)

The Christian story-

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology, all male hierarchies and strange banking and funding.

vs. the Islam story-

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the massacre in Mumbai, the assassinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

GIMPI, not sure what you're recollecting that leads you to think I'm Mormon; I'm a Dawkins/Hitchens-type secularist who agrees with Sam Harris that Mormonism is Christianity plus some additional very stupid beliefs.

On the Koran vs. Old Testament, yes the OT is very violent (and racist); but a) it's mostly myth; b) most Jews know this; and c) most Jewish sects don't compel belief that it's the word of God or literally true, the way Muslims are expected to take the Koran literally.

On the "planes that land safely" point about non-violent Muslims, it's true that I don't have a statistical comparison of murder rates. But, worldwide, where else are adulterers stoned to death, eight-year-old girls married to 50-year-old men to settle family debts or riots kill innocent people over cartoons? In America, in what other religion do educated people (not losers like McVeigh) blow up buildings, or TV network owners behead their wives?

There is no doubt that the christo-islamic ideology is the problem. (I do not take the Torah as history.)

But Major N. Idiot is countering the argument that he snapped. He is not talking. If he snapped, he would be still be manic or talking about needing to kill people. He is rationally listening to his lawyer. Also the contacts with the crazy imam suggests that he sustained a thought process that this type of action was a moral act and as he delved into being muslim, he concluded, rationally (though falsely) that this is the right action.

Eboo et al say that they find a good man who proves of the moderation in islam. If one man can prove tolerance, one man can prove intolerance. Although CCNL's numbers may not be "liked" that doesn't deny their validity for statistical conclusions (scientific) that the christo-islamic ideology is a source of himsa (harm) in the world. We can then ask, is this genetic - white people are killer - is this social - cold weather and deserts make killers - is it economics - but the rich wage wars, the poor only follow - is this ideological.

I think it is the latter. And it is this ideology of the chosen people, the ideology of akarmic action (action without consequence- you still get into heaven), the ideology of righteousness (I am right you are wrong)...It is the worship of a god that embraces hate - eternal damnation, etc. Wherever this ideology comes up (and it does come up in all groups of humans, but not statistically equally) it causes harm. We need to abandon it in this next few decades.

hariaum

"It's time we stopped treating prejudice as our society's greatest sin, and started admitting that people do a pretty good job of interpreting subjective evidence under incomplete information."
Posted by wmarkw

wmarkw, let me try to help you see the problems with this. Unless I am mistaken (easily possible) I believe you are Mormon. The same day the Fort Hood tragedy happened, another member of the FLDS (Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints) was convicted of the rape of a child. He was engaged in a forced polygamous "spiritual marriage" with a 15-year old girl.

Like it or not, the FLDS is a sect of the LDS. (And, Evangelicals, like it or not, Mormonism is a domination of Christianity. I know a couple who refuse to accept this.) Warren Jeffs is just as much a part of the Mormon church as Marie Osmond is.

Are other Mormons child molesters? Should we "interpret subjective evidence under incomplete information," about them? Of course not. Yet, by the numbers, the FLDS represents a larger sub-set of Mormonism than known Muslim terrorists make up of all Islam. If it makes sense to judge all Islam based on the actions of known terrorists, It makes sense to judge Mormonism on the basis of the actions of the FLDS. Or, for that matter, all Catholics based on the actions of a few priests. All, or none, I'm afraid.

As to the notion that the Koran is uniquely violent, and condoning of violence, I can only suggest a reading of the Old Testament. It's about on a par, violence-condoning wise.

You and I have gone around about prejudice before. I have really tried but I just can't understand your feelings here. For every "hit" you cite, there are at least "20 "misses for every kind of prejudice you can name. You just seem unable to see them. I have to wonder why you keep trying to defend the not only indefensible, but the downright stupid.

How many WestPoint graduates joined the South in the Civil war mainly because they were originally from that part of the country? This guy was plagued with a personal conflict throughout his army service and eventually when he was asked to join an invading army in Afghanistan, he snapped. His belief in a violent religion and the promise of a glorious afterlife were instrumental in the way he snapped. He is responsible for his action. His brand of Islam is responsible for making the outcome acceptable to him.

SHAYKH_ONLINE.

You don't Seem to like CCNL1's facts, nor do any of us.

Christians should not be so quick to talk about the violence contained in the Koran...

From an article in the Boston Globe on March 9, 2009 by Phillip Jenkins:

"The richest harvest of gore comes from the books that tell the story of the Children of Israel after their escape from Egypt, as they take over their new land in Canaan. These events are foreshadowed in the book of Deuteronomy, in which God proclaims "I will make my arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh" (Deut. 32:42). We then turn to the full orgy of militarism, enslavement, and race war in the Books of Joshua and Judges. Moses himself reputedly authorized this campaign when he told his followers that, once they reached Canaan, they must annihilate all the peoples they find in the cities specially reserved for them (Deut. 20: 16-18).

Joshua, Moses's successor, proves an apt pupil. When he conquers the city of Ai, God commands that he take away the livestock and the loot, while altogether exterminating the inhabitants, and he duly does this (Joshua 8). When he defeats and captures five kings, he murders his prisoners of war, either by hanging or crucifixion. (Joshua 10). Nor is there any suggestion that the Canaanites and their kin were targeted for destruction because they were uniquely evil or treacherous: They happened to be on the wrong land at the wrong time. And Joshua himself was by no means alone. In Judges again, other stories tell of the complete extermination of tribes with the deliberate goal of ending their genetic lines.

In modern times, we would call this genocide. If the forces of Joshua and his successor judges committed their acts in the modern world, then observers would not hesitate to speak of war crimes. They would draw comparisons with the notorious guerrilla armies of Uganda and the Congo, groups like the appalling Lord's Resistance Army. By comparison, the Koranic rules of war were, by the standards of their time, quite civilized. Mohammed wanted to win over his enemies, not slaughter them."

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/03/08/dark_passages/?page=1

Why is it that muslims get to interpret the koram but no one who disagrees with them does. Perhaps it is because the koran alone is insufficient as a teaching; less than the word of a god, more of a collection of ideas some guy had.

You are welcome to interpret all of the world's literature; do read it.

hariaum

ccnl1....Bring the correct tafseer(exegis) or be quiet!!!!! Save us your self interpretation of the verses of the quran ...your no better then the terrorists who do the same thing your doing...Self interpreting and antagonizing people with your misunderstandings.

Our War on Terror and Aggression:

An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops, 3,469 killed action and 871 non-combat and 93,040 – 101,537 Iraqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

10) Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops killed in action 562, 176 killed in non-combat situations as of 9/02/09.

11) 13 USA citizen soldiers killed at Ft. Hood by a Muslim fanatic.

Continued below:

Other elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

- Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

- Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

- Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they have threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???

- North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel hopefully a fresh sense of civility is afoot.

- North Korea was taken off the terrorist country list recently.

- Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

- The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “square one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

- Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

- Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanhistan and Pakistan.

- Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

- Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

- Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

- Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

- The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Radovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war -- charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia. Karadzic's trial has started.

- And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

All three of the Cults of Abraham are violent, tribal creations whose primary function is to create little warriors willing to kill the other tribes monsters at the request of the Rulers. We have killed 600,000 non-combatant Iraqis in a war that Alan Greenspan has said was all about oil. Israel is the father of modern terrorism. Islam is no better nor worse, only less well armed than us or Israel.

All three religions should be banished from the planet.

At the moment, the public does not yet have enough detailed facts to truly understand what happened at the Fort Hood shootings. Preliminary information seeping out from media reports indicates, however, that “political correctness” may have played a significant role in avoiding the confrontation of the views and warning signs indicated to those who transferred the poorly performing alleged shooter to Fort Hood—a man with toxic views he was all too eager to express among his colleagues. This hypothesis is further strengthening by the fact that only one of the old-line media (ABC, NBC, CBS, and CNN) mentioned the fact that the shooter was a Muslim on the first night of the incident. Each knew the identity and name of the alleged shooter, but only Charlie Gibson of ABC News stated the obvious—the alleged shooter was a professing Muslim. Why didn’t CBS, NBC or CNN ever mention the alleged shooter was a Muslim—a fact that would seem pretty relevant to the report given the current context that our nation is engaged in the War on Terrorism? I suspect for the same reason all of the known warning signs were overlooked to avoid the near certain accusation of being anti-Islam hurled at the Army.

There is nothing wrong with the media telling the public the facts as they become available. It the alleged shooter was taking out revenge on innocent Americans because of his faith, would this not be important to understand. If a Catholic walked into the same situation and stated he was doing this horrific act on behalf of the Pope that would be the “headliner”. If a fundamental evangelical stated he was doing such an act to avenge “Islamic terrorism” don’t you think that, too, would have been a headliner. Why the exception when a Muslim is at the heart of this conflagration?

I don’t know all of the facts. I do know, however, that the incredible effort for “political correctness” among this nation’s media elite and certain high-level government authorities shall continue to leave ordinary Americans in harms way…unnecessarily. Only time will tell how much “political correctness” played a role in failing to avoid this tragedy. I hope we learn something from this and change behavior to improve our safety when warning signs are clear…regardless of concerns of accusations of “racism” or “religious intolerance”. Enough is enough. Let commonsense ring.

Gary Pernice
Platinum Business Group, Ltd

Some of us have been banned from Eboo Patel's commentary pages because Mr. Patel cannot come to terms with the obvious violence of Islam as dictated by the koran.

There is hope though for Mr. Patel and all the Muslims out there as we again offer free of charge our Five Step Method For Eliminating the Flaws and Errors of Islam.

Are you ready?

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. These words should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."
A major item for neuron cleansing.

Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc.

No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed supposedly spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy" aka Gabriel.

Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

It's quite possible that THIS guy is a nut that snapped, who could have been anyone. The worldwide Muslim pattern of violence, general underdevelopment and lack of tolerance, though, is highly suggestive of a people who lack the ability to discern spirituality from fable.

While liberal religionists, attribute the underdevelopment of Muslim cultures to the intellectually stifling effect a religious environment can have, we need to face the likely fact that the Koran, from a worldwide perspective, is being read by people of too low an intellectual capacity to understand it in modern light. Let me emphasize that I'm talking worldwide. Muslims in America have been selected by immigration laws for intellectual capacity.

But, here's the most likely worldwide IQ map:
http://www.vdare.com/misc/rushton_african_iq_map.htm

Much of the Arabian peninsula is missing reporting, but it's not unreasonable to infer it's the same color as the rest of the Morocco-Indonesia axis, with an average IQ of 85. This is why the Koran motivates more worldwide violence and primitivism than the Hebrew scriptures. Jews have an average IQ of 110. Christians had an average of 100 until cultural assimilation of other peoples, plus their scriptures are largely pacifistic. Muslims lands are like countries run by 14-15 year olds, who think their knowledge is superior to the fuddy-duddy science of the more advanced nations.

These actions may not be consistent with mainstream Islam, but they are very consistent with fundamentalist Islam. The problem is that for the last 30-40 years, fundamentalist Islam has become ascendant in the Muslim world and there is very little meaningful debate about how this violent strain of Islam is poisioning the religion. To say that fundamentalism is not changing Islam as we know it is to be willfully ignorant of recent history.

There are multiple examples of Muslims targeting innocent Muslims that one does not need this incident to demonstrate that the Islamic world needs to do a serious reassessment of its obligations to other human beings, including non-Muslims. The reason is that in the eyes of non-Muslims, Islam is losing its legitimacy as a moral faith.

Any religion that either acquiesces or tacitly accepts militant fundamentalism is not a moral faith. Islam needs to confront and discredit the idea of Islamic superiority. The use of violence against the innocent must also be firmly condemned. Finally, Islam needs to do a compelte reassessment of the role of women in Muslim society. Draconian interpretations of Sharia law cannot be accepted as the norm. Religion should not be used as a shield to sanction discrimination, violence and backwardness.
Unfortuantely, the rise of fundamentalism in the Muslim world has done just that.

How many people do Muslims have to kill?
I don't hear or see OUTRAGE from them.
Just the same old bull! "This is not real muslims", well they say they are REAL MUSLIMS.

I can only assume All Muslims are snickering with glee!

Unfortunately this just brings more and more forward the question of whether Muslims--really anyone who takes religion in a fundamentalist manner--are compatible with the separation of church and state that is modern Western democracy. I mean after all, here we have a person who entered the U.S. military, but then when it became time to test just how much this person would be loyal to the U.S. he turned against the military, wanted out. Then although he was supposedly against violence (saying he was against the war) he had no problem killing Americans. A conflict was created in him whether he would be a moderate Muslim and on the side of democracy and separation of church and state or an Islamic fundamentalist and he chose Islamic fundamentalism. What makes it all the more stark is that he witnessed every day the evidence of battle inflicted on U.S. soldiers by Islamic extremists and still he had no problem killing U.S. soldiers. This just increases the problem between the West and Islam.

Hey stephenrhymer are you off your meds again. Nobody from Fox News has called for Muslims to be brought in to swear their loyalty to anything. You must be reading the left wing blogs again.

Anyway thanks for the good laugh!

Why no Muslim can be trusted !!!!

Passages from the koran related to the killing of all infidels:

"Allah is an enemy to unbelievers. - Sura 2:98

On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. - Sura 2:161

Slay them wherever ye find them and drive them out of the places whence they
drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. - 2:191

Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns
supreme. (different translation: ) Fight them until there is no persecution and
the religion is God's entirely. - Sura 2:193 and 8:39

Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. - 2:216
(different translation: ) Prescribed for you is fighting, though it is hateful
to you.

..... martyrs.... Enter heaven - Surah 3:140-43

If you should die or be killed in the cause of Allah, His mercy and forgiveness
would surely be better than all they riches they amass. If you should die or be
killed, before Him you shall all be gathered. - 3:157-8

You must not think that those who were slain in the cause of Allah are dead.
They are alive, and well-provided for by their Lord. - Surah 3:169-71

Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the
hereafter. To him who fights in the cause of God, whether he is slain or
victorious, soon we shall give him a great reward. - Surah 4:74

Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in
the cause of evil. - 4:76

But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. -
4:89

Therefore, we stirred among them enmity and hatred, which shall endure till the
Day of Resurrection, when Allah will declare to them all that they have done. -
5:14

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each
other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide
an unjust people. - 5:54

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme -
8:39

O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among
you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a
thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. - 8:65

It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the
land. - 8:67

Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from
obligations to idol-worshipers. Proclaim a woeful punishment to the
unbelievers. - 9:2-3

When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them.
Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. - 9:5

Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. - 9:28

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been
forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even
if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been
humbled. - 9:29 (another source: ) The unbelievers are impure and their abode is
hell. (another source: ) Humiliate the non-Muslims to such an extent that they
surrender and pay tribute.

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah,
with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them.
Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Allah has purchased of their faithful lives and worldly goods, and in return has
promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, kill and be killed. -
9:111

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123 (different translation:
Believers! Make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find
harshness in you. (another source: ) Ye who believe! Murder those of the
disbelievers....

As for those who are slain in the cause of Allah, He will not allow their works
to perish. He will vouchsafe them guidance and ennoble their state; He will
admit them to the Paradise He has made known to them. - 10:4-15

Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. - 33:60

Unbelievers are enemies of Allah and they will roast in hell. - 41:14

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide
slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or
ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4
(different translation: ) When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield,
strike off their heads, and when you have laid them low, bind your captives
firmly.

Those who are slain in the way of Allah - he will never let their deeds be lost.
Soon will he guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the
Garden, which he has announced for them. - 47:5

Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. - 48:25

Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the
unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to enrage the
unbelievers. - 48:29

Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with
them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. - 66:9

The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever
in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. - 98:51

Fight them so that Allah may punish them at your hands, and put them to shame.
(verse cited in Newsweek 2/11/02)"

Those who think Muslims are all suspect because of what this Palestinian American did the day after the House passed a resolution condemning the Goldstone report, probably think all Jews are fraudsters, thieves etc., because of Madoff, Dreier, Rothstein and numerous others.

Only murdering dog muslims and their enablers are suspects , only thieving who scamming bastards and their accomplises who happen to be jews are being put in jail . You religionist apologists are just nuts , we are ready to defend ourselves against your insanity .

Fox News presenter Brian Killmeade has called for all Muslims in the US to be brought in for interrogation to insure they are Americans first so the inquisition has already begun.

Get ready to see some legislation before Thanksgiving that would bring back loyalty oaths and a bill that will make the Patriot Act look positively Constitutional.

Here in Oklahoma we're already hearing the quiet drumbeat of those who believe all Muslims are the enemy and we must "do something" about them.

We need to be much more concerned with why this soldier decided to murder his fellow soldiers.

It's too easy to say he was a Muslim.

That's bigotry.

Get real . This political cowardice to call the Islam death what it is has cost enough lives . Get them out of the military , get our military out of Iraq and Afghanistan . Support freedom fighters in Iran and tell the Arab States they will have free elections in 2010 . ACORN will be there on Jan 15 Martin Luther King's birthday . Let freedom ring .

The killings/murders that have been committed at Ft. Hood by other soilders the question should be about soilders killing each other. November 2009; July 2009; September 2008; October 1991; and others.

Those who think Muslims are all suspect because of what this Palestinian American did the day after the House passed a resolution condemning the Goldstone report, probably think all Jews are fraudsters, thieves etc., because of Madoff, Dreier, Rothstein and numerous others.

You gotta love it! For a small minority of ultra liberal hate mongers it's still all about the evil Christians. It's evident to anyone with a brain that all terrorism in the world today is being conducted by Muslim extremists. Not all Muslims are extremists, but all of the extremists are Muslim.

However there are still a vocal minority of nitwits who most likely are living in their parents basements surfing the internet for porn 23 hours a day who pull up long enough to bash Christianity instead of acknowleding the reality at hand. And they have to troll all the way back to incidents that happened in 1995 to the Timothy James McVeigh bombing to try and support their case.

However what these mouth breathers don't tell you is that McVeigh himself claimed to not be in touch with his religion and in fact said that science was his religion, but the mouth breathers tell us that he did what he did in the name of his religion. What a load of crap! Then there's the abortion protesters who sit quietly by and protest while doctors stick long probes into the brains of unborn children. Yes indeed those abortion protesters are the bad guys.

The good thing is that these ultra liberal lemmings are fast falling out of favor in this country. There words trail off as only half listened to and always ignored babble.

There are more Muslims in America than Methodists. Lookout.

Focusing on the fact that this guy was Moslem is IGNORING the fact that the Army FAILED to take action when this guy started acting up... he's had a history of problems. The Army should have gotten rid of him a long time ago, but since it's so short-handed they can't afford to let anyone go, even nutjobs.

One solution, bring back the draft. Start with Beck and Hannity.

Fine, I'm prejudiced against Islam.

It's time we stopped treating prejudice as our society's greatest sin, and started admitting that people do a pretty good job of interpreting subjective evidence under incomplete information.

Perhaps an equally important question is "What will be the effect on the perception of right wing Christian extremists who kill abortion doctors?" Or maybe, "What will be the effect on the perception right wing Christian extremists who advocate violence towards sexual minorities?" Or "What will be the effect on the perception of right wing Christian extremists who threaten the life of President Obama?"

Perhaps the real question is "What will be the effect on the perception of persons with mental illness and those who suffer from post traumatic stress syndrome?"

Your question is terribly prejudicial and leading. Your question does not even point to the real reason behind the attack. Typical of biased weasel Christians, however.

depends... was the guy targetting people because they weren't Muslims? if so, then religion enters into it - if not, then religion doesn't.

Hey - Timothy McVeigh was a Catholic - and the guys who shot up Columbine were Christian. So how come the mouth breathers on here aren't talking smack about then evils Christianity as a religion and Christians as people just because one out of billion people goes off the deep end? That's some serious thinking there blaming an entire group of people for the actions of one.

The #1 Terrorist in American history: Tim McVeigh... a Christian.

McVeigh committed his act of terrorism for similar reasons: an attack on the establishment by a psycho.

It seems that the problem is the Army did nothing about this Major's behavior and he fell through the cracks until he cracked.

The Army needs to have a better handle on those who serve, remember the US soldier who set off a grenade and killed fellow soldiers in Iraq? He wasn't a moslem, just a nutjob.

I know a fair number of peaceful Muslims and few angry ones. I know a whole bunch of angry Christians and a fair number of "live and let live" ones. My experiences are not applicable to anyone than myself.

It's not our responsibility to point fingers at others and decry their religion as the root of the problem. People have to look within their own communities and decide what they stand for. That being said there doesn't seem to be much of a proactive stance to oppose fundamentalism from any of the big three religions. There's consequences for sticking your neck out and laying down the truth.

Until then we just have to be vigilant and protect ourselves as much as we can without trampling the Constitution.

Samuel Huntington devotes much of his 1996 book, " The Clash of Civilizations to Islam's "Bloody Bprders".
Christopher Caldwell, in his excellent "Reflections on the Revolution in Europe", observes that as of this writing,(2009), Muslim countries or groups are either at war or in a hostile truce with EVERY civilization that Islam abuts, from Nigeria to Xinjiang.

I am afraid we can add the United States to this list.

This guy is a Muslim Terrorist. He fits
the psych profile. Sorry. And spare me
your spin. These people have promised
to obliterate Israel and America. They
are still doing their best to keep that
promise. The FBI has said more than once
in the media that there are probably
many more of them among us here in The
USA. We will have to deal with them,
one way or another, or they will take
us down and you'll get to see what it's
like living in a Dark Age. Do you want
that? Welcome to the real world, Mr &
Ms PC. Terrorists don't just magically
appear. They evolve from a decompensating
sick person who morphs into a fanatic
killer. It's a psychosis. Either we deal
with them preemptively, or they kill us.
Which is it gonna be? Have you forgotten
the jubilant throngs of tens of millions
of Muslims worldwide, dancing for joy in
the streets of their neighborhoods all over
the world in the aftermath of 9/11? Tens
of millions of them celebrated the fall of
The Twin Towers. That's the reality. They
are murdering in Pakistan, Afghanistan,
Iraq, Europe, Africa, South East Asia,
China, Oceania, Russia and now here in
America. The mass murders become more
widespread and frequent every day. This
is a war. Act like it. They are. Get Real.

I call the ideology of christianity and islam as both equally flawed in their support of killing. Whether it is the KKK or the Taleban. The ideology of these religions creates this us v them problem. Likewise communism (an atheistic killing machine).

But, though we may have opinions and beliefs about ideology, we need to be patient before jumping to conclusions that this datum (event) supports or disapproves our constructs.

It seems that a terrorist is going to hide his zeal. This guy, bastard, did not hide his religious zeal. I suspect that his plan was less organized than Timothy McVeigh, etc. but I could be wrong.

I am with you wanting to jump to conclusions, But we need more information first. Please wait.

hariaum

Muslims the world over have been killing innocent people for years. Many US liberals excuse their deadly acts in the name of tolerance or because they view religions they dislike as just as bad. Those Americans who excuse acts of mass murder committed by religious fanatics have become fanatics themselves.

It's very interesting to me that we have a Muslim man commit mass murder, screaming "Ali Akbar" before he began his murderous and cowardly attack upon innocent and unarmed victims, yet there are comments being made here against Christianity by a few hopelessly lost and misguided migrants. Honestly in a way I feel very sorry for these complete fools.

Clearly this was an act of terrorism committed in the name of Islam by yet another fanatical Muslim extremist. Nothing more and nothing less. Why Christianity is dragged into this by some is beyond comprehension.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

I have nothing else to comment read for yourself the website above it shows the hate that Islam breeds, peace my ass.

Muslims the world over have been on a criminal rampage for years. But liberals, predictably, avoid that reality and focus instead on what they dislike about Christianity. Americans had best focus on what too many muslims consider their religion gives them-a license to kill in the name of their god, those who disagree with them. It is a sad fact that many Americans lack the rationality to recognize that reality. They are aiding and abetting the acts of fanatics like Malik Hasan. To the extent they excuse such assassins they too are fanatics.

One incidence is an anecdote. Anyone who comes to a conclusion on an anecdote (but for counter examples) is a poor thinker. The world is full of poor (untrained) thinkers. We don't know the why of Fort Hood. We need to incorporate this event into our understanding of the world.

First let us understand the suffering of the families. The soldiers killed and wounded were, are, proud young men (and I suspect women) who offered to defend us and our freedoms. Their families with fear and love in their hearts, put courage to the forefront and said their sweat words from their heart to these soldiers. That fear has been realized. Many have said that the loss of a child is the greatest suffering of all. That fear has been realized. To want to sacrifice for their country and not have had an opportunity to do so is a great loss. For some, that fear has been realized.

And yet, the courage that the unarmed soldiers and the civilian police that came to their aid showed has also been realized. The love for our nation, in the faces of these soldiers as they suppressed and stopped the attack, has been realized. The grief of the families, and the shock they must be in, will give; and in the weight of time and hope for life and love in the future, pride of a loved one's sacrifice will be realized.

My grief for the families and my nation is trivial before the grief of the families and my nation. But I offer verses from the Gita:

Krishna (god) says: (ch 2 v 12)Certainly never at any time did I not exist, nor you, nor all these kings and certainly never shall we cease to exist in the future. (ch 2 v 13) just as in the physical body of the embodied being is the process of childhood, youth and old age; similarly by the transmigrating from one body to another, the wise are never deluded. (ch 2 v 16) in the unreal there is no duration and in the real there is no cessation.

hariaum

We have been told by Islam's apologists that jihad is an internal personal struggle for spiritual purity, not the warlike killing of infidels, heretics, and apostates. I believe the alleged gunman will be shown to have inhabited both realms. Does that make me a "jihadophobe?"

Let's quit the word games and dancing around the central issue. The real haters do not stop at murder in justifying their perverse ideology. Calling it "religion" is in itself perverse.

When doctors who perform legal abortions are murdered by Christians, gays are beaten and left to die in remote fields of Wyoming, or the rights of marriage are denied by Christians in Maine and elsewhere, and Christians equate national health care to Nazi concentration camps, we'd better look under some of our WASP beds before we bash the Muslims too forcefully.

The title itself is Islamophobia. Mass killing is done very often by Christians and no one speaks and should not speak of Christianity. A crime is a crime irrespective of the faith of the criminal. Also there is no just war. war is mass murder
and is the ultimate terror.

This massacre cannot do anything but increase the suspicious eye that most Americans cast upon Islam. Whether it is fair or not, whether there is any solution, whether their is any justification, members of that faith wear a scarlet letter that their fellow practitioners have inscribed on their religion.