Mormonism's moment?

An Op-Ed:

The Mormon Church, aka the business cult fronting as a religion founded by one of the great con artists of all time, Joseph Smith. From: lds-mormon.com/time.shtml (Time Magazine)

"The first divergence between Mormon economics and that of other denominations is the t-ithe. Most churches take in the greater part of their income through donations. Very few, however, impose a compulsory 10% income tax on their members. Ti-thes are collected locally, with much of the money pas-sed on informally to local lay leaders at Sunday services. "By Monday," says Elbert Peck, editor of Sunstone, an independent Mormon magazine, the church authorities in Salt Lake City "know every cent that's been collected and have made sure the money is deposited in banks." There is a lot to deposit. Last year $5.2 billion in t-ithes flowed into Salt Lake City, $4.9 billion of which came from American Mormons."

"The Mormons are stewards of a different stripe. Their charitable spending and temple building are prodigious. But where other churches spend most of what they receive in a given year, the Latter-day Saints employ vast amounts of money in investments that TIME estimates to be at least $6 billion strong.

Even more unusual, most of this money is not in bonds or stock in other peoples' companies but is invested directly in church-owned, for-profit concerns, the largest of which are in agribusiness, media, insurance, travel and real estate. Deseret Management Corp., the company through which the church holds almost all its commercial as-sets, is one of the largest owners of farm and ranchland in the country, including 49 for-profit parcels in addition to the Deseret Ranch. Besides the Bonneville International chain and Beneficial Life, the church owns a 52% holding in ZCMI, Utah's largest department-store chain.

All told, TIME estimates that the Latter-day Saints farmland and financial investments total some $11 billion, and that the church's nont-ithe income from its investments exceeds $600 million. "

"Members of the church celebrate the Lord's Supper with water rather than wine or gra-pe juice. They believe their President is a prophet who receives new revelations from God. These can supplant older revelations, as in the case of the church's historically most controversial doctrine: Smith himself received God's sanctioning of pol-ygamy in 1831, but 49 years later, the church's President announced its recision.

Similarly, an explicit policy barring black men from holding even the lowest church offices was overturned by a new revelation in 1978, opening the way to huge missionary activity in Africa and Brazil. "

Those who claim that Mormons are forced to pay tithing don't know that it is a completely voluntary offering, faithfully and happily given by choice and never forced or coerced.

Those who think that the Mormon church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) is nothing more than a business masquerading as religion don't know that there is no owner, save the Lord. No one reaps material dividends from the church.

Those who claim that Mormon women live in conditions of subservience and abuse don't know that, if they do, their tormentors defy the teachings of the church.

Those who claim that Mormon church leaders are tyrannical don 't know that they are invariably good and take their positions seriously, knowing that they must answer to God for their stewardships.

Those who think that Mormons hate homosexual people don't understand that they are welcome to participate in full fellowship in the church as long as they are willing to take upon themselves the covenants God instituted and keep the commands that He gave, just as it is for every other person in the church.

Those who libel Joseph Smith as a charlatan don't acknowledge that millions have supped upon the fruits his work and found them to be completely satisfying and in no way wanting.

Those who claim that the set of plates from which the Book of Mormon was translated were never seen don't know that they were seen and handle by individuals who published their witness and never denied what they saw, even though some of them were estranged from Joseph Smith and the church.

Those who dismiss the Book of Mormon as a fraud don't know of the richness and beauty it contains.

A pattern is evident here. Contrary to what they may think, Mormon cynics stand upon not knowing - manifesting ignorance as opposed to intelligence. It is rather like someone telling about an event they neither saw nor experienced in an effort to distract from those who did. So, whose account is reliable?

"You seem like the type who would join right in, if oppressing Christians became (even more) acceptable"

Oh, you poor, poor 85% majority christian christian you. This oppressing the christian nonsense is really quite tiring, and the kind of noise a little boy would make to his mommy.

I am not at all for oppressing you christians, what I am doing is ridiculing you. You have every right to believe ridiculous things as I have every right to ridicule at you for doing it.

But never would I tolerate our government oppressing you, any more than I would tolerate your oppressing other religions. Which, by the way, most of you christians seem happy to do, you have a long and bloody history of doing just that.

Burned any witches lately?

And shall I quote from my own post, the very end of it .. yes, let's do that:

"... Here you have said you have no problem ... spread that idea around, maybe the real conservatives might believe you."

I read what you wrote, you apparently didn't bother reading what I wrote.

The plain fact is, I don't believe you. Say it as often as you like, you're just being 'liberal' .... like bragging about how many black friends you have to show you're not racist. It's BS when you say it, everybody knows it.

After growing up in Utah for 22 years and being married to a Mormon for another 28, here's my take:

- chauvinistic
- racist
- homophobic
- ethnocentric

All RepuBPlican "family values"

bringing back to life does not apply to spirits as they don't die.

correction:

1-For muslims Jesus and God is not the same.

2- And muslim believe, God will bring to life again, like first time Adam and Eve without father and mother or Jesus without fater (Peace
Be Upon Them).

Joeblow111.

"The belief here in is that prior to everyone coming to live they existed as a spirit. Then once they are on earth and then die, their spirits then become separated from their bodies. If they have lived a good life then they go to the spirit paradise, but if not they go to spirit prison."

Interesting. This is very similar to Buddhist and Hindu teaching, in the sense that the "essence/spirit/consious/mind" does not die.

In my research of religions, the basis for all of them is the idea of the everlasting "spirit." Many humans seek a way to avoid the end of themselves.

To me God and Christ is the same humain for every

relegion (Muslim, Mormon, Baptist, etc), I d'ont

make difference!

Something really interesting to watch;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URkzgYxPqgU&feature=related

Muslim are more Christian then Christians, as they love Jesus(Peace Be Upon Him)more.......

MrMeaner wrote :

"My apologies. Sometimes it's difficult to remember that while all leftists are idiots, all idiots are not leftist..."

I beg to differ. It seems to me that all liberal/leftists are creative. Artists, of course, but also many scientists and engineers. Since they are able to create value out of thin air they know that (while it is certainly not guaranteed) the whole *can* be more than the sum of the parts.

In my experience, most conservatives are not very creative. They have jobs like accountant, stock broker and car salesman. They believe that they only way they can have more is if someone else has less. This usally does not make them much fun at parties...

Here is the common story told about the LDS faith, right or wrong.
The Mormans believe that the truth upon which their religion was based, the Book of the Mormon, a 19th century book that was translated by the church's founding member Joseph Smith. It seems that he discovered some 'golden tablets' writtean in some indechipharable hyrogliphics at the back of a cave in upstate NY. Apparantly Joe S, if and only if he put a 'special' rock under his hat on his head was he able to translate the hyrogliphs into English.
Maybe its true, maybe J Smith was a charlatan as he was charged in court before discovering the 'golden tablets' I don't know.
I believe in the cargo cults myself, who am I to question wether Smiths "Rochester Stone" was real or not.
gil
gil

because if you personally believe in tripe, then you shouldn't be president. where to begin --

god appeared to joe smith in the woods

joe smith translated the (three) gold tablets with seer stones, all of which he found in a stone box somewhere in missouri in the nineteenth century. (where are the gold tablets, seer stones and stone box?)

The earth is 7,000 years old.

Mars and Venus have dry rivers because they are the source of the flowing rivers on earth. The theory is that the dry rivers on Mars and Venus "match" the rivers on Earth and that proves that all three planets were organized from the same source.

Dinosaur bones come from other planets.

Mormon scripture teaches that Cain, who killed his brother Abel, was so evil that God "cursed" him with black skin, thus creating the African race.
In a related belief, black males could not serve as ministers until 1978.

In cases of the sin of murder, the murder of the sinner and the mixing of his blood with the earth bring forgiveness.

Native americans were originally white --"a remnant of the House of Israel" but half were turned red because they did not believe.

The Prophet Spencer W. Kimball taught that when Native Americans become Mormons their skin turns white. He said "The [Indian] children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation."

When a marriage is sealed in the Temple, a husband can know his wife's celestial name, but she cannot know his. This is so that if he so chooses, he can resurrect her after her death by calling her celestial name.

Mormons believe that after the resurrection, Jesus visited America and there he performed miracles and taught.

Kolub is a star mentioned in the Book of Abraham as being closest to the throne of God.

The belief here in is that prior to everyone coming to live they existed as a spirit. Then once they are on earth and then die, their spirits then become separated from their bodies. If they have lived a good life then they go to the spirit paradise, but if not they go to spirit prison.

can you say "cult". david koresh had a better story.

As long as the Mormon church refuses non Mormons the right to enter a Mormon temple, I believe it is absolutely wrong to have a Mormon as President of the United States. There should bo no religous requirements to enter office but neither should we have an executive get their spirtual advice in a manner that excludes the vast majority of the public from even hearing it. Would we now elect a President who is a member of a club that excludes women? Blacks? Jews? Until the day that I as a non mormon can walk into a temple and hear the service being preached, I will never entrust a member of that faith with the Presidency.

I don't see why Mormons and evangelicals should be suspicious of each other. Both groups are in alignment with the Taliban and fundamentalist Islam in their anti-women, anti-gay, anti-modernist agenda.

Why anyone would want any of these outdated Superstition Traditions involved in our lawmaking on the other hand, is another question entirely.

After reading the comments by SAJANAS and SFCANATIVE I think the Post should add a "Congratulate a reasonable skeptic" button.

Let's not forget:

The first 9/11 massacre by dangerous religious zealots in 1857 at Mountain Meadows, Utah. The LDS are still spinning the truth about it. But the murder of unarmed men, women, and children, under a flag of truce no less, proves definitively that Mormons are Christians. How do you say jihad in Mormon?

Contemporary accounts that the Book of Mormon was plagiarized from an unpublished manuscript of a "science fiction" novel.

The early Christian Church took over 300 years to establish it's official "Gospels". And then only after the Emperor Constantine co-opted the religion. 300 years after the events described, a committee, with the sanction of the most powerful dictator in the world, approves the "official" version, eliminating any "Gospels" which don't fit the top down Rome/Church hierarchy.

The LDS has done a much better job of spin control, in a fraction of the time. With the fog of time, the Book of Mormon should be widely considered "Gospel" in just a few hundred more years. Since the LDS Church buys up all original Mormon related manuscripts, they control all the evidence.

The Fundamentalist Church of LDS, with God's approval, sanctions the forced marriage of 12 year olds to middle-aged prophets. They claim they are the true LDS. Give me that old time religion.

When will Scientologists have their JFK moment?

The more I learn about Joseph Smith, the more it reminds me of the Adventures of Mohammad. We have the word of one guy, claiming to speak for a Deity who should clearly have the capacity to speak for Himself if He were any kind of Deity at all, telling a small group things they want to hear, and zero evidence.

May I remind Sally of an oft used quote before she writes again about the ascendancy of Glenn Beck.
You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

My suspicion of Mormons stems from the fact that Mormons do not believe in equality (especially of women and gay people). They believe in hierarchy, with white men at the top. I could not trust a person with such a belief system to run the country.

"He is a R.I.N.O"

Sad- basically affirmation that there is no such thing as a moderate republican anymore- ll bout guns, gays and god + faulty math skills when it comes to budgeting

I don't know about other Mormons, but I certainly have lots of respect for Gov. Romney, who started health care reform in MA years ago.

Gov. Romney should put those Evangelical Christians to shame for refusing to make health care affordable for everyone.

I have some distant relatives in Utah who insist on praying for me. I'm sorry, that gets old really fast. We already have a catholic supreme court, we don't need a mormon president to go with it!

Mormons and evangelicals have common roots detailed in a brilliant book entitled:

The American Religion...the emergence
of the post-christian nation
by Harold Bloom

Seven sects broke away from the Puritan
monolithic core at Cane Ridge in upstate NY
in 1838 because they agreed that they could not agree on anything. Just read it.

eezmamata

My apologies.

Sometimes it's difficult to remember that while all leftists are idiots, all idiots are not leftist.

I had just posted that I would gladly vote for an atheist, if he would support and defend the constitution. You then labeled me "social conservative", just on the knowledge that I'm a Christian.

I don't want to force my version of morality, or my belief system on anyone, and I won't have someone else's version forced on me.

I don't get that sense from you.
You seem like the type who would join right in, if oppressing Christians became (even more) acceptable

@eezmamata

"Scientology" gets bonus points for its glycol volcanoes, but Mormonism has to take the cake for the golden tablets and whacky underwear. NO "organized religion" can withstand 10 seconds of scrutiny.

QUATERMASS :

Maybe it is because Mormonism is easily the screwiest, least plausable and most outrageously silly "religion" invented in the last 500 years,

Other than scientology, which other religions have been invented in the past 500 years? If a religion is 2000 years old, does that make it more valid?

They are all ridiculous, as are all the people who believe in them. Grow up already, our politicians have to lie to the gullible and credulous public because you pathetic believers insist on it.

One part ignorance, one part bigotry is the easy answer.

Most people don't know a Mormon personally, so it's easy to play on people's ignorance -- especially with extreme caricaturization. The same is true of other religions like Islam and years ago Catholics.

The only thing consistent seems to be where the bigotry is coming from. It's pretty much the same group located in the same part of the country. They make up the GOP base today. Romney's and Huntsman's religion wouldn't be much an issue in the context of a Democratic primary. Their views on social issues might be an obstacle (e.g. abortion), but heck, Romney won a statewide election in one of the more liberal states in the U.S. -- Massachusetts, so who knows.

The one real disclosure we need to have the Mormon candidates make is: Who will make the decisions if they are elected president: the candidate himself or the Mormon prophet Thomas S. Monson. I am being flip or impertinent. To obtain a temple recommend, the document that proves a Mormon is an active faithful member of the church who follows the commandments, the member must profess their allegiance and accept that Thomas S. Monson is today the living prophet, seer, and revelator of God. Temple recommend holding Mormons believe that Thomas S. Monson is not just the prophet for the Mormons, but the prophet for the whole world. There is a saying among Mormons: When the prophet speaks, all debate ceases. The candidates may try to dodge the question by saying that Mormon prophets don't get involved in politics, but we know that to be untrue. Mormon prophets do involve themselves in politics, the Equal Rights Amendment and California's proposition 8 are two examples. We need to have the Mormon candidates disclose whether they will obey Thomas S. Monson if he commands them to do somethings, or if they are willing to violate their temple commitments by going against the will of their prophet. If voters are to make an informed decision, they need to if Thomas S. Monson will be making decisions for this country.

Anyone wanting proof of the need for an absolute separation of Church and State should evaluate the comments section whenever religion and politics appear in the Washington Post. Invariably, grossly bigoted statements appear. This occurred with Mr. Gerson's article on Catholicism and politics. It occurs regularly with respect to Islam. Whenever Israel is mentioned, anti semitic comments appear. Now, when the Mormon faith is mentioned, it appears again.

If Harry Reid can be a Mormon (heretofore a fact unknown to me), so can our President.

Maybe it is because Mormonism is easily the screwiest, least plausable and most outrageously silly "religion" invented in the last 500 years, and people with a functioning brain would immediately distrust anyone idiotic enough to buy into such transparent twaddle. Really. "Angel pants", anyone?

Probably because they believe silly things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q6brMrFw0E

Mainline christians of the Baptist, Church of Christ, Holiness, etc churches, especially in the "bible belt" south/west, will never accept the mormons other than as cultist. if you think otherwise, you have not spent any time in these churches. These folks never accepted the Pope's man, Kennedy, and they certainly will not accept John Smith's disciple, Mitt, whose father went to Mexico so he could pracitce his polygamist Mormon teachings. Wasn't Mitt born in Mexico? Does this make him a "natural born" citizen? Republicans best check the bigoted base before going down that road. Has nothing to do with these folks qualifications but then Glen Beck is a nut case. so what does that say for mormonism?

This is really a Republican issue. Democratic Senate majority leader Harry Reid is Mormon, and most Democrats simply do not care, if they even know. And i just learned today that Democrat Morris Udall, who I supported back in '76, was a Mormon. Private religious beliefs are just not an issue for most Democrats and moderate independents who I know.

Thank God that the U.S. Constitution separates religion from government and provides for freedom of religion. The Mormonism’s moment is not for liberal lefts Democrat to demonize the religion of candidates for office. Conduct a study of religion in the U.S. and simply display the number of churches, synagogues and mosques by location for example L.A., Chicago, N.Y., East Coast and West Coast.

Christian churches are Catholic and a variety of Protestant churches and store front Christian Fellowship including Mormons and a whole host of Evangelical represent the American people by over 80 percent. The point is they all believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. The vast majorities of American people respect and live by the values of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Politicians hold public office by swearing an oath on the Holy Bible.

If a U.S.2012 Presidential candidate is Mormon or Catholic that will be a huge plus for the American voters to elect that well know Christian candidate. The American people see what is going on in the Middle East with the Crisis in Egypt and the religious take over of government by Islam clerics and the Muslim Brotherhood who live by the Holy Book of their God Allah and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad after the days of the Prophet Abraham.

Thank God that the U.S. Constitution separates religion from government and provides for freedom of religion. The Mormonism’s moment is not for liberal lefts Democrat to demonize the religion of candidates for office. Conduct a study of religion in the U.S. and simply display the number of churches, synagogues and mosques by location for example L.A., Chicago, N.Y., East Coast and West Coast.

Christian churches are Catholic and a variety of Protestant churches and store front Christian Fellowship including Mormons and a whole host of Evangelical represent the American people by over 80 percent. The point is they all believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ. The vast majorities of American people respect and live by the values of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Politicians hold public office by swearing an oath on the Holy Bible.

If a U.S.2012 Presidential candidate is Mormon or Catholic that will be a huge plus for the American voters to elect that well know Christian candidate. The American people see what is going on in the Middle East with the Crisis in Egypt and the religious take over of government by Islam clerics and the Muslim Brotherhood who live by the Holy Book of their God Allah and the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad after the days of the Prophet Abraham.

The "Distrust" Expressed by many "Regular Americans" Toward "Mormonism"..is not only "Justified"..but Will..Not..."Change"!

The Simplest Reason is that "Mormonism"..is Incredibly INVASIVE!

What? You Never Had "The Knock On The Door" only to find a couple of Men/Women/Boy's/Girls who..essentially Would Not Leave until you Answered what amounts to a "Religious Interrogation"?

And whats more..those Same Individuals REFUSE to Answer basic Questions that You proffer.

For example..here's one I Always Asked (I say "Asked"..Because So Determined to Ignore this Reality are "Mormons" Themselves..that this One Question is the Equivalent of "Mormon-Be-Gone"):

"So..WHY..Won't The Mormons..Simply SHOW THE TABLETS To The World?"

See..the Mormons..Claim..and in fact their Entire Religion Is Based Upon this Claim to Allegedly Possess the..and..here it's Critically Important to Really Emphasize.."THE"..Single Most Complete PROOF of The Existence of..well.."A FORCE of BENEVOLENT INTELLECT" Known To Humankind:

"The Tablets And Translator Stones" left by the "White Jesus" for Joseph Smith.

Think about this for a second-

Here is a Religion..that Claims 100%..Without Equivocation..they CLAIM IT..to have Access to ACTUAL.."Evidence"..of a "Divine Being".

This is the Equivalent of say..you or I..having PROOF..of "TIME TRAVEL"..say a "Computer From The Future".

And here's the Rub..

REFUSING TO SHARE IT..OR SHOW IT..OR PROVE IT..TO MY FELLOW HUMANS!

Do you understand the..sheer..Magnitude of such Selfishness?

This is "One Group" of People..literally stating:

"We Could End All War..All Religious Strife..Answer Nothing Less Than 'The Question' Of Existence..But..We're Not Going To!"

Thats a Group Of People Literally Stating:

"You Can Obey Us and Follow Our Doctrines..But We Will Not Help mankind Out Of Simple Desire To Do So..You Can ONLY..Obey And Believe..We Will Not Prove It.Even Though We Easily Could Because We Actually Possess The Evidence Of Non-Human Technology And Intelligence In A Vault In Utah!"

For they claim to "Have" the "Artifacts".

But they REFUSE..to "Share"!

Thats..why so many see "Mormonism" as..essentially.."Dangerous"!

Its a Cult!

Period!

If its "Real"..hey..its so incredibly Easy to Prove:

Show Us The Artifacts!

Let alone show "Compassion" for Mankind by..gosh..y'know.."Sharing" or placing WORLD PEACE and Universal Human Harmony "Above"..say..Social-Cultural..Socioeconomic..Social-political "POWER" by "Keeping The Artifacts To Yourselves".

See..thats known as "Hording".

In this Instance.."Spiritual Hording!"

Another Element of Distrust For "Mormonism" is their..Deep..Constant..Never Ending Desire to Peer into the Private Lives of..Everyone Else!

Mormons See No Problem with "Collecting Data" on Every American Citizen.

There's no more "Intrusion Based" Religion On Earth.

well, Perhaps "Scientologists"?

But Its "Mormons" who Collect "Data" and Join the FBI in Droves.

And its Utah that houses the IRS Database!

'Nuff Said!

Mormons aren't Christians. They belong to a cult. They deny basic tenants of Orthodox faith. Why is there any debate about that?? They even refer to themselves as following "latter day saints."

Recommended reading: Kingdom of the Cults by James Martin. Mormons should read it too since they probably have no idea what a weird spiritual maze their faith is.

It is very easy to see how people of any faith or of no faith at all would look upon the Mormon faith with skepticism and disdain.

While other religions have been around for thousands of years and have patron saints and prophets who passed down words of wisdom and universal truth which pushed society in a progressive way; the Mormon religion was founded barely 100 years ago by a man who had little to say that is memorable at all in any positive sense.

The patron saint of Mormons founded a religion that was formally racist (unlike Christianity or Islam) and he set it up as a cult for allowing men to have harems of wives.

Mormonism remained formally racist (not allowing Black people to join or even form their own sect) stating that Black people were less than human, until the 1970s!

http://chipshirley.com/

The way you people sound....you not even require another stupid war...for your independence "ISA"

By the way ever wondered which very few of you collecting debt out of you????????:)

14 trillion GDP
12 trillion debt

Why do suspicions still plague Mormons?

Donny and Marie Osmond

Harry Reid

Glenn Beck

Mitt Romney

Ezra Taft Benson - the thirteenth Mormon pope

Many people in America have problems with polygamy. Is it the government's responsibility to tell us who we can marry or how many we can marry?

All religions promote themselves as the only true religion. Nearly every Christian denomination asks for tithes, yet I fail to see Jesus asking followers for anything but belief in God. All religious books have nonsense written in them, the Bible no exception. Raining frogs, talking snakes, 5000 year old earth are a few examples. I tend to focus on the universal, religious or not, life is precious, the needy should be helped, protecting the green earth, greed that harms is bad and many other moral positions. Punishing the million children raised by gay parents is not one of them.

Priceless that after the years of the tea bag revolution and its candidates,,Mitt "big Love" Romney is leading them,,ah well having several first ladies might be fun.

Almost all religions have beliefs that any thinking person would question (angels, virgin births, Osiris being resurrected, etc.). The difference between those religions and mormonism is that most religions recognize a difference between mere mortals and god or gods. The Mormons actually believe that a human can become a god. In addition, a woman can only go to heaven through her husband. This religion is harder on women than Islam or Judaism. Its followers are even more arrogant than the evangelicals running around saying they've been saved. And then there's polygamy, which was part of official mormon doctrine until Utah wanted to become a state. At least they finally allowed black men to become full members of their church about 30 years ago. But it's really hard to take this religion seriously. And finally, let's not forget Brigham Young and the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

I don't trust anyone with circular logic at work, and Mormons and Evangelicals are all irrational due to circular logic. It works like this: Faith relies on the knowlege of Jesus Christ, which relies on the "knowlege" in the Bible, which relies on...Faith.

Anyone who subscribes to such irrational and ridiculous logic should not be elected to any public office to make any decisions for a pluralistic America.

Mormons go the extra "irrational mile" by putting Faith in a "prophet" whose actions and behavior was focused mainly on building his own empire.

The reason none of us should vote for a Mormon is because they subscribe to the doctrine of irrational thought and irrational decision-making based on their blind faith.

Keep it simple.

Eaglehawkaroundsince1937.

Welcome aboard -- nice to have someone my age.

For a wider, broader range of the provocations presented on this website, one might visit www.edge.org

Currently appearing there is a talk, also the written text, of Jonathan Haidt's, "The Bright Future of Post-Partisan Social Psychology," followed by the criticisms by Daniel Kahneman, Daniel Gilbert, Mark Leary, Paul Bloom, Steven Heine, Alison Gopnik, David Pizarro and Lee Jussim.

Another one, more easily gained by Googling his name and the essay title, is John Gray's, "The Atheist Delusion."

Don't be afraid, try them out.

I am not going to vote for Mitt Romney in the Primaries, not because he is a Mormon... but because he is a liberal republican. He is a R.I.N.O.

If he wins the republican primary then I will vote for him over Obama but only because he will then be the most conservitive choice I have... like voting for McCain ... he was the most conservtive out of two liberals.... plus, he had Sarah, a true conservtive as a running mate.

But my dislike of Romney as a presidential candidate has nothing to do with his religious belief.... shame on the post for trying to pit one religion against another.

You are supose to report the new... not try and make it.

Why do suspicions still plague Mormon The name of the “founder angel” of these evangelical hypocrites is Moroni. That explains why they are all morons and hypocrites. They poured tens of millions of dollars in the anti-gay campaign in California (what a “Christian” attitude). They refused, until recently, to recognize that Blacks had souls like “normal people”. Alcoholic Fluffy Flake, one of the Three Stooges of False News, is a card-carrying Mormonesque ignorant hypocrite.
Need I say more?

Why do suspicions still plague Mormon politicians?
Because, like all religious charlatans they are nothing but evangelical hypocrites.
Alcoholic Fluffy Flake, one of the Three Stooges of False News, is a card-carrying Mormonesque ignorant hypocrite.
Need I say more?

Mormans seem to be very gentle people who come to your house to convert you. One Big push of theirs is to have you Baptised in their religion. Once this is done Bingo, one of them and then the guilt if you want to leave. Been there done that.

I am not going to vote for Mitt Romney in the Primaries, not because he is a Mormon... but because he is a liberal republican. He is a R.I.N.O.

If he wins the republican primary then I will vote for him over Obama but only because he will then be the most conservitive choice I have... like voting for McCain ... he was the most conservtive out of two liberals.... plus, he had Sarah, a true conservtive as a running mate.

But my dislike of Romney as a presidential candidate has nothing to do with his religious belief.... shame on the post for trying to pit one religion against another.

You are supose to report the new... not try and make it.

In response to Russ Gerber. They are all mistrusted because to intelligent and non superstitious people they are all nuts.

USA GDP 14000 billion
USA Debts 12000 billion

One more stupid war and yr new name Independent States of America ISA like Russia. Afghanistan was grave yard for Russia and now for............fills in the blank...

YAA we know it……………oblivious…….what does it means!!!

All religions require a "Leap of Faith". It is just that Mormons require jump higher than most.

USA GDP 14000 billion
USA Debts 12000 billion

One more stupid war and yr new name Independent States of America ISA like Russia. Afghanistan was grave yard for Russia and now for............fills in the blank...

YAA we not it……………oblivious….what does it mean!!

Does anybody dare to speak of the elephant in the room? If you look at the substance, and actual content, of what these people believe, any rational, logical, fact-based person has to conclude that they're completely delusional. Anyone who makes the kind of claims that these religions make, that have absolutely zero basis in reality, you've got to wonder.....

I do not think there should be a relious test for who can be President. For those who say they follow the original intent of the Constituiton, this is just another personal interpretation of what the Founding Fathers wanted. Now, I do think that Guys like Beck ruin it for guys like Romney, especially in the realm of independents. If Beck is seen as the spokesperson for Mormon viewpoints, then the independents will not bite. The Moromon candidates need to clearly separate themselves from guys like Beck if they hope to have a chance.

Mo Udall would have been a great president and the country much better off today had he been elected.

But look at Arizona today to discover why many people are suspicious of Mormon politicians. They are leaders in the move that has made us the national center of bigotry. They also were largely responsible for the anti-gay law passed in California.

No. When the Mormons dumped millions of dollars into California against gay rights, they demonstrated they are on the wrong side of history. It is not that they don't have a right to their opinion on any issue. It is that I don't want any particular religion's viewpoint enforced in law.

I would be hard pressed to vote for any politician from a denomination which wants to enforce church law through the government whether that politcian be Mormon, Roman Catholic, Fundamentalist Christian, Muslim or whatever.

MRMEANER :

So, what you're saying is that since liberals hate all things religious, their deep mistrust is implied?

Huh? How did you get that from what I said. This is another standard conservative knee jerk response, since liberals tend to disagree with you, all people who disagree with you are liberals.

It's this kind of simple-mindedness that makes it possible for you to be a christian in the first place.

I do not consider social conservatives to be real conservatives. That's what I'm saying. You people are no less interested in using the power of Big Government than are the liberals, you have an equal interest in forcing your rules and your morality on everybody else, using Government to do it. You are not conservative, you are only retrograde.

Read my post at FEBRUARY 9, 2011 3:28 AM in this thread. I intend to vote for Romney if he's available as the republican nominee. I don't see that most of you christian conservatives are going to allow that.

I don't blame the liberals for that, I blame people like you. Here you have said you have no problem ... spread that idea around, maybe the real conservatives might believe you.

I have learned to give conditional trust to several Mormons, Harry Reid, for example, and the Udall's and even former Senator Bennett, but others, such as Hatch, will never win my trust, or, for that matter, my respect. In general, I feel you must take your time while you inspect each of the the perfect teeth in any Mormon politician's perfect smile until you are satisfied that it hides no glint of gold. And when you spot that glint, ask who sent the gold.

I have learned to give conditional trust to several Mormons, Harry Reid, for example, and the Udall's and even former Senator Bennett, but others, such as Hatch, will never win my trust, or, for that matter, my respect. In general, I feel you must take your time while you inspect each of the the perfect teeth in any Mormon politician's perfect smile until you are satisfied that it hides no glint of gold. And when you spot that glint, ask who sent the gold.

It is people like Romney's dad that worked to end Mormon bias against blacks gaining respect and crazed converts like Beck that inflame old hatreds creating disdain. When the rest of Mormon elders call for Beck's excommunication progress towards Mitt getting the presidency is bettered. As long as this nut brainwashes his following into believing his nonsensical conspiracy theories, Mormon churches wrongly will be seen in the same light.

I'll stop mistrusting mormon politicians when they stop pouring money into California's initiative process to push their social agenda. Ever since prop 8, I've got a stack of $1000 checks ready to give to anyone, anywhere, who is a remotely credible candidate and is running against a mormon stealth candidate.

I'm certain that Prop 8 cost David Harmer a seat in congress. (I'm proud to say that I did my part to keep him out.)

Seperation of church & state: It's not just a good idea, it's the law!

Can we really trust Romney or Huntsman not to listen to the current Mormon prophet/"profit" when a lot of their business dealings rely on said "profit" center support for funds?

So, what you're saying is that since liberals hate all things religious, their deep mistrust is implied?

I'm a Christian Conservative, and I would have no problem voting for a Morman.
I would vote for atheist, if he supports and defends the constitution.

MRMEANER :

Why is it that for WaPo, Mormonism is only an issue when it involves conservatives?

If conservative Christian and Mormons share a political agenda, why do suspicions still plague Mormon politicians?

Did you read what the author said at all?

Because it only is an issue for conservatives. What a stupid question. Most of the social conservative religious freaks among the self-styled 'conservatives' think the Mormons are a cult. That's the whole point.

Really, what a stupid question.

Why is it that for WaPo, Mormonism is only an issue when it involves conservatives?

Are these worries of "a deep mistrust of Mormons" among the public, an issue for the senate majority leader, Harry Reid?

I doubt that Harry Reid's name and the word Mormon has ever been printed in the same sentence on WaPo.

Disgusting and shameless, as usual

Mubarak stepping down, Switzerland freezes all his assets

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPe4EWpGxR0&feature=channel

mission acomplished.....new looting scheme under progress....

Now that Mubarak has been deposed in Egypt, the days of the gangster regime in Iran are numbered.

Mormonism is a top-down, lock-step, highly regimented lifestyle, for the purpose of getting married and having lots of children to make ever more Mormons.

It is a good system for dull-witted, dull-minded people, (no offense, to anyone, but let's face it, that's the awful truth) but for anyone with a free spirit, a Bohemian with a sense of creativty, a bent towards free-thinking, who is not open to conventional marriage at an early age, because of sexual orientation, or for any other reason, Mormonism is a GREAT BIG dead end. And anyone born Mormon who does not fit in, learns pretty fast about how the Mormaon family values really work, and how it feels to be cast our and ostracized by those you thought loved you. (No offense to anyone, but THAT is how they do it).

Ok, can we be done with this dull topic now?

The Egyptian dictator has been overthrown. This is something so much more worth of talking about.

Christocons will no more tolerate a Mormon president than they do a black one.

I don't care if a political candidate is Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Pagan, Santeria, Scientologist, Ec1ati, Buddhist, agnostic, atheist, or worships a pimple named Doug.

I have one concern - will s/he uphold the Constitution, even if doing so does not agree with his/her religious beliefs?

"Remember how JFK was vilified for being a Catholic?"

--------------------------------

I remember it vividly in the five minutes between my gym class and a US History class with Mr. Gee at Mount Ogden Junior High School in Ogden, Utah, on November 22, 1963, at roughly 11:35 AM MST when the principal announced over the PA that Kennedy was dead and my Mormon classmates cheered, "They finally shot that Catholic ba$tard!"

Whoop-de-do . . . . .
Imagine the responses if a Muslim got into the race?

Would anybody like to comment is it still a myth after watching below link: (if yes, please try to support yr comment with some facts)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUUPYs0gElU&feature=related

which shows top non muslim scientists comments from all type of religions and beleives about Qurran.

"You do not have to believe the myths, but trying to extricate them from society is something like pruning off the limb upon which you are standing."

It is entirely possible, and reasonable, to enjoy the benefits of what you describe without having to endure the deficits causes by the unreasoning beliefs in such myths.

It isn't the content of the myths that are troubling, it is the suppression of the skeptical, questioning mind required to believe in the magic need to gain the heaven promised in these myths.

It's the political nature of the purveyance of such beliefs, the control of both the believers and the non-believers. When you attach a god to your political ideology there is no questioning allowed.

Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power. It's obvious in the other parts of the world where Christianity doesn't rule, why is it so hard to see this in our world where it does?

gibsonpolk :
...
February 10, 2011 2:18 PM
______

A word about myths: Disregarding whether they are fact or fiction, myths encapsulate an essential collective knowledge. They function as persistent threads of mutual awareness that transmit a coherent worldview through time, making possible viable social interactions and cooperative progress. Like mortar, myths make a sound structure of what would otherwise be rubble. Notice that cultures come and go in lockstep with their myths. In many ways we define cultures by their myths. True or not, myths underpin culture. They inform us about who we are, how we came to be, what is right, our values and how to behave. Try to imagine America without George Washington and the Revolutionary War. In the absence of first hand knowledge of the Founding Fathers and their deeds they are nothing more than myths. However, that does not diminish, but may actually enhance their value to our culture. Casting them off because they have attained mythical status would be utter foolishness and disastrous. (Notice what happened when Pol Pot declared Year Zero in Kampuchea.) Whether or not you like Judeo-Christian traditions, you have benefited tremendously from them. You do not have to believe the myths, but trying to extricate them from society is something like pruning off the limb upon which you are standing.

Let's look in wonder at the Christian hatred of the Mormons in our country. I think it comes primarily from one source in the Christian mind, both being more or less present in each of them.

It is their perception of the absurdity of Mormon beliefs, and its origins.

Of course it brings immediately to the Christian mind the absurdity of their own beliefs. That any modern human, at least partially educated in history and science and reasoning could find in the talking snake, the holy burning bush, Noah and the ark, and in the ravings of barbaric iron age sages wisdom and 'truth' for today is itself an absurdity that only a well-suppressed reason could not appreciate.

Another reason perhaps is that real humans, visible in history and without doubt existing, invented a religion. We can see the construction of it almost as it happened, certainly conceived entirely by man. Perhaps their own religion was also invented in such a manner. Where is the divinity in such human invention?

There is none, is there.

Although it is true that Mormon theology differs sigificantly from Christian beliefs, most American Christians are so ignorant of their own faith that the differences don't even register. What we have today as the dominant religion is a sort of neo-Christian Republicanism, which holds the contradictory and often irrational tenents of the Republicans Party as sacred. Mormons, who are taught from childhood to accept authority without question, fit easily into this framework.
Christianity is dead; long live Republicanism.

Sad fact is a great portion of the conservative population are religious bigots. They have no problem with the mysteries of the transfiguration, trinity concept or any thing from the council of Nicea eventhough they never heard of it and think the entire Bible was written with the finger of God, but nobody elses religion can be tolerated.

It's hard enough to understand how so many modern, reasonably well educated Americans can believe mythologies handed down from anonymous priests who lived 3,000 years ago. But it is baffling that many buy into such a bizarre cult as Mormonism that was clearly dreamt up 200 years ago by a frontier con man.
Wake up, America, from your religion induced stupor, and join the 21st century.

There are seemingly a lot of people writing these comments that believe the Mormon faith is a business cult that is financially enslaving its membership through the tithes they pay and reaping huge profits for the leadership. While it is true that most Mormons obey the biblical law of tithing and that the church has many businesses’s that support its welfare efforts and worldwide temple building program it is not for the enrichment of the leadership.
From a religious point of view one might wonder what a church lead by Jesus Christ would look like and function like in the world. You would not expect it to be stagnant or shrinking in size. You would not expect it’s clergy to be embroiled in every kind of depravity and scandal. You would not think it had to beg for donations from its members because they would all voluntarily obey the law of tithing as given in the bible.
You would expect a church led by Christ to be growing and successful and willing and able to provide for the needy anywhere and anytime it was necessary. You might also expect the adversary to try and discredit Christ church by any libelous slander it could think of. You would expect his chosen church leaders to be men of good repute and intelligent acumen. You would think Christ church would be big on family values and teaching morality to the young.
Of course there would be the inevitable moral failure of some individuals who succumb to the adversary’s tricks and deception but they would be few and far between and quickly dealt with in a just but firm manner. In short you would probably expect a church founded and run by Christ to look very much like the Mormon Church does today. It would be growing, successful and a blessing to its members and the community at large.

If Jesus of Nazareth, the Holy One of Israel and Redeemer of the World, were to come and establish his church on the earth now, it would likely and logically be called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Some people would happily embrace it and work vigorously to share the glad message of what God had done. Other people would reject it and take every opportunity to misrepresent the church and demean its members. Such is how it's always been with God's work.

A fundamental belief in the church would be that people are ultimately responsible for themselves. God grants freedom to every individual. Any effort to infringe that freedom amounts to taking from a person what God has given and must be weighed very carefully. As such, church members would take seriously the notion of personal choice and necessarily deliberate carefully when questions of freedom arise. Certainly, force and coercion would have no place in the Lord's church. More generally, freedom of religion would be paramount. Everyone must be allowed to believe whatever and worship however they will, so long as it doesn't infringe on other people's freedoms.

If a member of that church were to run for President of the United States, he would probably, based on belief, feel compelled to respect the beliefs of others and strive to preserve their freedoms. He would understand that he is not only answerable to other people but to God for how he treats them. And he would realize that he cannot hide anything from God. That candidate would have no difficulty whatsoever upholding and defending the Constitution of the United States, including, in the strictest sense, the First Amendment. But that candidate would also expect to receive derision and grief because of his beliefs. Such is how it's always been with followers of Christ.

But perhaps the more interesting question is whether any of it is true or not. If it is not true, why all the fuss? In the end, it is of no consequence and just vanishes away. Just let the believers have their fun. After all, we all have our own pointless pursuits. On the other hand, if there is a possibility that it is true, well … you would just have to decide what that means for you, for yourself. Isn't this a great country where you can?

"Remember how JFK was vilified for being a Catholic?"
______________________________________

Although I was quite young at the time, I remember no such thing. Certainly it was not much in the press since I was an early newspaper reader. It may have been something that adults talked to each other about it was not something out in the public square much, unlike the opprobrium heaped here on Mormons.

The press kept quiet about his Addison's disease and the daily steroid injections he required to battle it and his serial womanizing. It hardly seems likely that they would pillory his Catholicism.

The closest thing history has to Mormonism is Islam. Both movements sprung into the heads of divinely inspired prophets and both believe Jesus to be very important to their theologies.
The Mormons fragmented immediately after its founder died as did Islam. Both Abrahamic sects formally make religion central to their life and political outlook and both have, in this regard, more secularists than religionists.
The warm LDS "peace be with you" greeting translates in Arabic to "As-Salaam-Alaikum."

Regardless of what the Constitution says about no religious tests for holding office, the reality is that people are biased. Just the mere thought that Obama might be a Muslim has people going off the deep end. The same thing will happen to any Morman who runs for President. Remember how JFK was vilified for being a Catholic? Personally, I believe every religion and/or church is basically a cult.

I know many Mormons and with exception that some are Republicans who drink Beck’s cool aid they are fine upstanding people for the most part. Like any group they have their fair share of the good, bad and ugly amongst them. For the most part though they are great at providing their children with good values and a functional and loving environment within which they can mature. As a rule they are thrifty, industrious and great neighbors. They are there when you need or want them and respectfully absent when you don’t.
I think Glenn (the sky is falling) Beck is one of the ugly ones and unfortunately does great damage to the Mormon brand. Intelligent conservatives within the church would love for him to sit down and shut-up rather than continue to give the impression that they are all a bunch of radicalized Mormon fundamentalist believing all the conspiracy theories and embracing the vitriolic rhetoric and hate speech he spews.

Robert Merry, thank you for making your faith statement here on "On Faith".

I don't care what their religion is, they're republicans, those people who do everything for their wealthy masters, send the children of the less fortunate off to war and cut any benefits for those who are middle class, working class or poor. They want to make serfs of all of us. They will lie, they will make phony appeals to patriotism, they will smile as they drive knife into our backs. I cannot say strongly enough that such people will be the demise of this nation and it is looking more and more each day as if we deserve it for being so blind and stupid. Its not about their religion, its about what class they're in and what class interest they support. This never changes, this who the republicans are. They say they are religious but they practice the religion of money and power.

I don't care what their religion is, they're republicans, those people who do everything for their wealthy masters, send the children of the less fortunate off to war and cut any benefits for those who are middle class, working class or poor. They want to make serfs of all of us. They will lie, they will make phony appeals to patriotism, they will smile as they drive knife into our backs. I cannot say strongly enough that such people will be the demise of this nation and it is looking more and more each day as if we deserve it for being so blind and stupid. Its not about their religion, its about what class they're in and what class interest they support. This never changes, this who the republicans are. They say they are religious but they practice the religion of money and power.

The face of Islam:

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat98,691 – 107,707
Iraqi civilians killed as of 11/9/2010, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

10) - Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.

16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

It's not a good idea to
vote for any man to be
president, and have his
finger on the "hot"
button, and at the same
time wears "sacred underwear
and hides his personal
religious "temple" goofiness
from the public at large !!!!

American Missionaries ...black warter...daily activities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m0dzENWpsM&NR=1

USA History & International Policies View from Outside
1- It is recorded in American 1970’s encyclopedia History Sections (Sky Blue cover) that 150 million red indians were killed by new white settlers which is equal to half the population of today’s Europe and usa itself. Which was total extinction of complete race, even today red Indians are considered endangered spices.
2- A-bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
3- Millions killed children.../women Vietnam.
4-More than Million killed in Iraq completely destroyed, no clean water, food, sanitation, hygiene, electricity, roads, and US missionaries killing civilians playing security. It was not like that before. Can you live there now, as normal human being?
5-Worldwide CIA/Pentagon illegitimate jails for renditions and torture . Popular one is Abugraib jail in Iraq, newly built castles in Afghanistan. People like Afia Siddique prisoner no 650 ..her case is one example, a message to outside world about US Justice system, out of hundreds of thousand renditions by US authorities, today people are missing all over the world
6-Destroying (imploding….Just google) twin tower killing their own people and, blaming and then attacking another 3 countries, Iraq, afghan, Pakistan. Conspiring about weapon of mass destruction, Osama Laden who is dead long ago….just google, blatantly lying and ignoring UN advices while attacking weak targets…..for financial gains.
7- Google…USA Monopoly of biggest world business/industry of arms& ammunition. It is proven everywhere that USA creates artificial unrest throughout world after 2nd world war to earn profits on their arms business.eg. Iran Iraq war, Iraq Kuwait war and almost in every war & insurgency especially in the Africa and middle east in last 65-70 years. Causing millions getting killed in Africa, causing famine, child war abuse …..endless death cycle.
8- US forces deployed in more than 120 countries of world, to promote and protect their illegitimate interests.
9-USA Regulatory Monopoly and US single currency in world second largest black gold business, ie, oil
10- Supporting all illegitimate and corrupt governments of world to protect their illegitimate interests like manipulating and controlling the wealth of the world. e.g., When Corrupt allies get toppled or destroyed, US & allies seize their illegal wealth which mostly protected (before getting seized ) in USA, UK, France or Swiss Banks BUT belong to some poor nation, like King Iran trillions of dollars, Iraq Oil, Nigeria Oil and almost everywhere in the third world, present day Egypt, Pakistan, Iraq , Afghan etc etc ……A lesson for illegitimate dictators all over world….that in the end all their looting will go to their masters….and their atrocities will haunt them back…like Sadam, Shah King Iran and now history full of such examples….
What picture of USA it reflects to outside world and what message it gives?Do you ever asked to yourselves?THIS IS SOMETHING I LIKE SEEING HERE UNDER DISCUSSION

I'm a mormon, my father's family converted in CA 50 years ago and I do my best to follow Christ. The LDS church follows the teachings of tithing, as taught in the Bible. The definition of tithing is one-tenth. It's not mandatory - nobody is putting a gun to your head and nobody comes to your door collecting if you don't pay. We are extremely careful with who has access to these funds and the money is carefully recorded and deposited immediately. While the church uses to money to further is cause and pay for "church expenses" (buildings, manuals and hymm books, etc.) Other methods are used to grow the money instead of sticking it in a vault somewhere and not doing anything - The Lord told us to grow our talents). This money is not going to any person and is strictly used. As stated before, we have a volunteer clergy and nobody is paid a dime for the time or services rendered to the church in a local capacity. Read Malachi about tithing

I choose to pay and know I'm blessed for it, just like I'm blessed by keeping the ten commandments given to Moses.

The story of Joseph Smith and how he was an instrument in the Lord's hand to restore the Gospel of Christ in these last days is almost unbelievable. But so are all the stories in the Bible - Daniel and the lions, Moses parting the Red Sea, the creation of the world, the miracles of Jesus, etc. There's no solid proof to verify these things actually happened.

During Christ's life terrible things were said about him that were spun to the unbelievers. How do we know he really is our Savior and died for our sins and was resurrected on the third day?

By faith and by the witness of the holy spirit. Pray for truth and understanding and God will direct you.

1. The leaders of the Mormon Church/"Cult" are not paid? Actually, they are paid via being executives of the large Mormon-owned businesses:
e.g. http://207.224.220.202/excerpts/hier2.htm
"The Quorum of Twelve's president Ezra Taft Benson was a director of Beneficial Life Insurance Co. Apostle Howard W. Hunter was president of the Polynesian Cultural Center (Hawaii), and director of Beneficial Life Insurance Co., of Continental Western Life Insurance Co., of Deseret Federal Savings and Loan, of First Security Bank of Utah, of First Security Corp., of Heber J. Grant & Co., of PHA Life Insurance Co. (Oregon), of Watson Land Co. (Los Angeles), and of Western American Life Insurance Co. Apostle Thomas S. Monson was president and chairman of the board of Deseret News Publishing Co., vice-president of LDS Social Services and of Newspaper Agency Corp, and director of Beneficial Life Insurance Co., of Commercial Security Bank, of Commercial Security Bankcorporation, of Continental Western Life Insurance Co. (Iowa), of Deseret Management Corp., of IHC Hospitals, Inc., of Mountain States Telephone and Telegraph Co., of Murdock Travel, of PHA Life Insurance Co. (Oregon), of Pioneer Memorial Theater, and of Western American Life Insurance Co. Apostle Boyd K. Packer was chairman of the board of Utah Home Fire Insurance Co., while also director of Murdock Travel and of Zion's First National Bank. Apostle Marvin J. Ashton was president of Deseret Book Co., chairman of the board of ZCMI, and director of Beneficial Development Co., of First Security Bank of Utah, of First Security Corporation, of Laie Resorts (Hawaii), and of Zion's Securities Corporation. Apostle L. Tom Perry was director of American Stores Co. (which operated Skaggs Drugs and Alpha Beta supermarkets), of ZCMI, of Zion's First National Bank, and of Jewel Companies, Inc. (Chicago), and trustee of LDS Social Services and of Nauvoo Restoration. Apostle David B. Haight was director of Bonneville International Corporation, of Deseret Management Corporation, of First Security Bank of Utah, of First Security Corporation, and of Valtek, Inc., while also a trustee of Deseret Management Corporation Foundation. Apostle James E. Faust was vice-president of Deseret News Publishing Co., director of Commercial Security Bank, and of Commercial Security Bank Corporation, while also a trustee of Ballet West and of LDS Social Services. Apostle Neal A. Maxwell was director of Mountain Fuel Resources, Inc., of Mountain Fuel Supply Co., and of Deseret News Publishing Co. Apostle Russell M. Nelson was director of Zion's First National Bank. Apostle Dallin H. Oaks was chairman of the Public Broadcasting System (national), while also director of O.C. Tanner Jewelry Co. and of Union Pacific Railroad."

Bottom line: Mormonism is a business cult using religion as a front and "charitable" donations and "volunteer work" to subsidize and advertise said business.

How appropriate the picture of the Utah State Capital as an Annex to the Salt Lake City Temple.

More on the Mormon Church, aka the business cult fronting as a religion founded by one of the great con artists of all time, Joseph Smith. From: lds-mormon.com/time.shtml (Time Magazine)

"The first divergence between Mormon economics and that of other denominations is the t-ithe. Most churches take in the greater part of their income through donations. Very few, however, impose a compulsory 10% income tax on their members. Ti-thes are collected locally, with much of the money pas-sed on informally to local lay leaders at Sunday services. "By Monday," says Elbert Peck, editor of Sunstone, an independent Mormon magazine, the church authorities in Salt Lake City "know every cent that's been collected and have made sure the money is deposited in banks." There is a lot to deposit. Last year $5.2 billion in t-ithes flowed into Salt Lake City, $4.9 billion of which came from American Mormons."

"The Mormons are stewards of a different stripe. Their charitable spending and temple building are prodigious. But where other churches spend most of what they receive in a given year, the Latter-day Saints employ vast amounts of money in investments that TIME estimates to be at least $6 billion strong.

Even more unusual, most of this money is not in bonds or stock in other peoples' companies but is invested directly in church-owned, for-profit concerns, the largest of which are in agribusiness, media, insurance, travel and real estate. Deseret Management Corp., the company through which the church holds almost all its commercial as-sets, is one of the largest owners of farm and ranchland in the country, including 49 for-profit parcels in addition to the Deseret Ranch. Besides the Bonneville International chain and Beneficial Life, the church owns a 52% holding in ZCMI, Utah's largest department-store chain.

All told, TIME estimates that the Latter-day Saints farmland and financial investments total some $11 billion, and that the church's nont-ithe income from its investments exceeds $600 million. "

"Members of the church celebrate the Lord's Supper with water rather than wine or gra-pe juice. They believe their President is a prophet who receives new revelations from God. These can supplant older revelations, as in the case of the church's historically most controversial doctrine: Smith himself received God's sanctioning of pol-ygamy in 1831, but 49 years later, the church's President announced its recision.

Similarly, an explicit policy barring black men from holding even the lowest church offices was overturned by a new revelation in 1978, opening the way to huge missionary activity in Africa and Brazil. "

@CCNL1
"Mormonism is a business cult fronting as a religion and supported by forced donations."

Lets see... Mormons hav a mainly lay clergy, while other pastors and ministers are paid. Many Christian churches are highly commercialized. As for tithing being a "forced donation", are you kidding? If you're a Christian, what about the Bible verse which says "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse"?

Romney is a vapid, empty vessel. He changes his positions as the wind changes. He has no core values or beliefs to promote, but whatever he thinks may get him some attention and votes today. He has nothing going for him but Ken-Doll good looks. Frankly, I am a little suprized that people take after his blank, empty good looks. That is certainly no way to judge a political candidate.

Mormonism, itself, rose up from folk beliefs about Christianity, among people who had become detached from formal, traditional Christian theology. But there are now, of course, "highly trained" Mormon theologians, who now elevate their once lowly folk beliefs to a status of formal theology.

Joseph Smith, was, in his day, a free-thinker who creatively improvised his folk teachings, and he was also a sexual libertairan, who believed that it was ok for Christian men to have multiple sex-partners. Of course, all of this has gone by the wayside, now, as his progeny have sought to tighten their "moral loosness" to be more in conformity with American society.

Mormons love their litte ceremonies, as though there is some sort of magical power, or at least mystical power in these customs. That is the rational for the underwear, which they like to keep secret, because they know it seems weird.

Mormons are pretty harmless; if you don't have enough will-power to resist their nit-wit missionaries, then you deserve to be converted into one, against your will.

I have known a lot of Mormons over the years. As much as I may have liked any of them, I feel that I cannot be my true self to them, partly because they cannot understand a non-Mormon point of view, partly because they are always seeking a way to convert you, and partly because I cannot take such simple-minded people seriously.

... no offense to anyone ...

The role of women in the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints i.e. Mormons, is more backward than even the Catholic Church - thus far, we've had only one Catholic POTUS, and he dared oppose the Vatican on any number of issues. But then, JFK has always been known as a 'liberal' democrat. It's pretty much guaranteed that Romney will not stray far from GOP rightwing talking points when he's on the stump. It's simply the only way to have a shot at winning the nomination.

God forbid that we should have another republican POTUS and republican Congress at the same time. The now-continuous transfer of wealth to the micro-sized wealth segment of our population would accelerate exponentially.

The protection of corporate America and it's feudal lords would only be enhanced. Who protects voters from the people they put in office to represent their interests? They become more scarce each day......

Of course Mitt Romney worked for free as governor of MA. He's a multi-millionaire extraordinaire, and didn't need the paltry salary of a state governor.

More of our ultra-rich elected officials should altruistically sacrifice their salaries and benefits, rather than perpetrate the largely republican-sponsored attempts to force such benefits reductions on ordinary folks.

Ordinary voters that support republicans is one of our greatest anomalies - since they never support the interests of those ordinary voters in return.

What one ex-Mormon has to say:

'The Mormon church of today is still clinging to the beliefs of the nineteenth century; ideas which are becoming more outmoded every day. A few women in the Mormon church are trying to make a difference, but they are usually swiftly excommunicated.

In Mormon magazines, which are full of advice for women from the heads of the church, the message has changed in response to the feminist movement. In 1964, advice on marriage and divorce was fairly dispassionate; by 1972, these topics were addressed with increasing panic and harshness.

Feminists are described as "the Pied Pipers of sin who have led women away from the divine role of womanhood down the pathway of "error". Obviously, the Mormon church is not going to alter its views on women in the immediate future.

It is questionable whether it is even possible for Mormonism to equalize the roles of men and women, because the oppression of women is so integral to the religion. Men and women cannot truly become equal in the church, for the basic tenets of Mormonism are so fraught with sexism that equality would change the religion beyond recognition.'

Obama's recent faith declarations are objectionable in my view, but his wife is certainly free to speak her own mind. How about Mitt's mate??

http://www.exmormon.org/mormwomn.htm

Romney and Huntsman are just more examples of those taken in by the Great Angelic Con Game.

Joe Smith had his Moroni.

Jehovah Witnesses have their Jesus /Michael the archangel, the first angelic being created by God;

Mohammed had his Gabriel (this "tin-kerbell" got around).

Jesus and his family had Michael, Gabriel, and Satan, the latter being a modern day demon of the demented.

The Abraham-Moses myths had their Angel of Death and other "no-namers" to do their dirty work or other assorted duties.

Contemporary biblical and religious scholars have relegated these "pretty wingie thingies" to the myth pile. We should do the same to include deleting all references to them in our religious operating manuals. Doing this will eliminate the prophet/profit/prophecy status of these founders and put them where they belong as simple humans just like the rest of us.

Some added references to "tinkerbells".

"Latter-day Saints also believe that Michael the Archangel was Adam (the first man) when he was mortal, and Gabriel lived on the earth as Noah."

Apparently hallucinations did not stop with Joe Smith.

@@Hamiltonfed34
YOU'RE the one uttering blasphemy. The Mormon Church believes what is written in the Bible, that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Ghost, and that Mary was a virgin until after His birth. We,ve just covered that in our Sunday School studies.

Despite the anti-mormon political diatribe, inuendo, false accusations mixed with a little bit of truth as a smoke screen to attack Mr. Romney and mormonism...

Romney has successfully and profitably managed large businesses, created more private sector jobs and saved more private sector businesses (Domino’s Pizza & Staples, a few of many) than any other candidate. He knows and understands world economics.

He has succeeded at every job he has had. Yes, that’s right, he is not a “Career” Politician.

Funny. Half of MA loves what Romney did, the other half hate him, maybe because he left after completing only one term. Again, he has not been a “Career” Politician.

Yes, he worked as the MA governor for his entire term for FREE!!! Who would do that!?

MA had a huge deficit when he started, and he left MA with a surplus and balanced budget without raising taxes at the end of his term. Who has done that? He can't help it if they screwed up after he left.

Since states have their own rights as to how they operate, “Romneycare” never has been the same as “Obamacare”! MA’s super Democrat controlled legislature wanted desperately some kind of Universal Health care program. Romney, a republican, worked with them to create one that would work, similar to mandated auto insurance (what state allows you to legally drive without insurance?). It is estimated that 98% of the residents are now covered. Romney wanted the requirement that everyone should pay something towards it with no exceptions, and it was within projected budget, until Romney left and the state super Democrat controlled government made changes to the program and now it is costing them.

He compromised on some things in order to keep the state government working together and moving forward.

He turned around a struggling 2002 Winter Olympics and made it into one of the most profitable Olympics in history. And only took a $1 dollar salary. Who would do that!?

He is against federalization & big government. Believes in state’s rights.

He lives the example and believes in the importance of family.

He is for a strong military and believes the borders should be better protected.

The list of real positives is far greater than the supposed list of negatives.

And if you want to know about what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints really believe... You can read more about the doctrinal beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints at their official web sites:

www.lds.org or www.mormon.org

Mormonism should be labeled what it is, a business cult fronting as a religion. Said business is subsidized by forced donations called tithes. If Romney states this, I might vote for him.

@SAJANAS
Lol! The reason the stolen manuscript was not translated again is due to concern that once in print, someone would produce an altered forged copy and say, "Aha! He can't even translate it the same way twice!".

As for ridiculing gold plates or the Urim and Thumim, what about the stone tablets with the Ten Commandments, or any number of miracles in the Bible, that we all, as Christians know to be true?

If you believe differently than Mormons, that's your constitutional right. But you'll be more credible if you preach what's good about your beliefs, rather than trashing another's beliefs.

The Washington Post never fails to amaze. They're primarily driven by a political agenda that finds its way into discussions of faith. In fact, partisan domestic politics seems to be the primary driver for "On Faith" editorial decisions. Mormonism hardly made a ripple when Reid was running for reelection in Nevada but now, with a Republican frontrunner for the nomination, it becomes the issue du jour.

Mormonism is a joke. It simply does not hold up under any kind of study. A linguistics analysis of the Book of Mormon would shred it and the reason these things do not appear in the public domain is that the hierarchy of that church buys up such works and suppresses them.

The irony is that from such ridiculous metaphysical beliefs, adaptive social conventions spring. Mormons are frugal, prudent and family oriented. They have not given up on paying the gift of life forward. They are admirable in many ways.

As far as the office of president, metaphysical beliefs, as long as they are adaptive, and not apocalyptic, they are not litmus tests for the office.

Would the Washington Post have an editorial policy that implies that a Catholic, say John Kennedy, would hold such allegiance to Rome that it would make him unfit for the highest office?

Mormonism is a business cult fronting as a religion and supported by forced donations.

Elements of our War on Terror and Aggression:

-Operation Iraqi Freedom- The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat, 97,172 – 106,047 Iraqi civilians killed as of 8/10/2010 mostly due the Shiite and Sunni suicide bombers.

- Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror,

- Sa-dd-am, his sons and major he-nchmen have been deleted. Sa-dd-am's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes. Kuwait was saved.

- Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

- Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “cra-zies” as they have thre-atened Libya. OBL sure is a di-sgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???

- North Korea is still u-ncivil but is contained.

- Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

- The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords. Unfortunately the Annapolis Peace Conference was not successful. And unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “squ-are one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

- Bin La-d-en has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

- Fa-na–tical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

- Timothy McVeigh was exe-cuted. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

- Eric Ru-dolph is spending three life terms in pri-son with no par-ole.

- Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

- Islamic Sudan, Dar-fur and So-malia are still terror hot spots.

- The terror and tor-ture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Ra-dovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war - charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

- And of course the bloody terror brought about by the Ja-panese, Na-zis and Co-mmunists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

Our War on Terror and Aggression:

An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat98,691 – 107,707
Iraqi civilians killed as of 11/9/2010, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

10) - Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.

16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

The article should refer to "Mormons and other Christians", rather than "Christians and Mormons". Although the Mormon Church is not regarded as Christian, by some other Christians, (because they hold differing beliefs about Jesus), Mormons ARE Christians.
No one has the right to judge who is a Christian, and who is not.

How would anyone know what Mitt Romney actually believes from moment to moment?

First he was for state-sponsored healthcare as the governor of Massachusetts, and now of course he's adopted the anti-healthcare reform stance of the lockstep republicans. Truth be told, his father George was a much more consistent and politically balanced conservative republican, and is even now considered one of the better governors in Michigan's recent history - during an era when democrats and labor unions ruled.

His republican successor William Milliken is still the longest running governor in state history. They don't make republicans like that any longer.

There are no moderate republicans of note as candidates for POTUS. Mitt Romney will predictably support each and every platform position endorsed by the right wing of the republican party - as if there was another one. McCain all over again.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Mitt_Romney

Mormons are distrusted by Christians because they have radically changed the content of the Christian faith but still call themselves Christians. Mormons believe in more than one God and beyond that they believe they can become a god. This is heresy to Christians, yet they will still defend their Christianity because they believe in a person also named Jesus even if he has very little resemblence to what Christians throughout history teach about Jesus.

Given their church's duplicity on these matters they will make for great politicians. Their whole religion is spin and in the past coupld decades under Hinkley they have become particularly adept at spin.

They can say all the same words as regular Christians and mean something that Christians would find heretical if they understood the backstory of the Mormon's words.

Ask a Mormon about the doctrine of Eternal Progression, The relatinship between Jesus and Satan, or the possibility of women getting into the highest heaven(celestial kingdom) without a man's invitation. These are the conversations I would like to see Romney and Beck talk about. I think it would send their Evangelical Backers running for the hills.

What kind is the person, who even do not have the decency to say wrong what is wrong which is going on around……………….getting personal and abusive is easiest…… addressing real issues needs some courage and honesty…….I don’t hate you guys……just trying to bring up some present time realities….

I will probably vote for Romney in-spite of the the fact he is a Mormon and RepuBPlican.

The likes of Palin and Huckabee threaten our religious freedoms and any chance for an end to our endless Christian Oil Crusades. The rabid, white-supremacist Fox News hatred of a black president makes him ineffective and continues the distraction of past three years of teabagger bigotry, division and name calling.

There should be no religious test for President and those who bash Obama over it while crying outrage over mention of Romney's religion are morally and mentally bankrupt lemmings of Limbaugh.

Mooody

You say that you are a loving person. However, that is not really for you to say; it is for others to say; and speaking from the point of view of others, I would never think of the workd "loving" after reading how much you hate America and the Jews.

In fact, I believe that blaming everything on the Jews is a kind of mental illness; it is not necessarily the Jews, but the selection of any scapegoat of the day; sometimes it is the Jews; sometimes it is the gays; sometimes it is the Muslims; scapegoat them; blame every every bad thing on them; beat your wife; kick your dog; and then maybe you may feel better.

What love.

Moody and TWISTED, so alike. They don't whine about the same things, but it is the same whining. It is the same religious fanaticism, the very same disease, only with different instantiation arguments.

Both of you people are a waste of skin, your verbal diarrhea is tiring and nobody pays any more attention to you or what you say, beyond the general curiosity one has for a car wreck.

Mooody

You are just a mean-spirited heckler, so why don't you go and heckle some place else?

Mooody

You are an ignorant propoganda tool. You have bought into the lies that you have been taught. You cannot possibly know what is hidden from you to know.

I hardly think that preaching hatred in a shrill and bitter tone is loving. Like many who have been indoctrinated into fundamentalist dogma, your ability to love has been filtered and flattened; you toss the word around casually, but you lack the capacity to comprehend it, much less feel it.

I feel sorry for you. Why don't you go now, since you have nothing to contdribute here, but your embarassing inner turmoil.

I'm very peaceful, non violent, loving person throughout my life.....you are mistaken, it’s not me my dear.....don't you see any reflection of yours or your close ones in my words....which you might be referring to HATE!

This is not some propaganda, THESE ARE ON RECORD FACTS......must be very proud of yourselves?????????? that you are very big and powerful......Right......nothing stays for ever in this world. Maybe you forgot...until HELL...OH who cares......"We are still alive and powerful... eating up every thin else........"

Mooody

You hate Jews ... you hate Christians ... you hate atheism ... you hate America and Americans ... America is guilty for every bad thing that has ever happened in the history of the world ... even for events that happened before America was disocvered ... we get it ... Your comments are tired, boring, and predictable.

And your English stinks, too.

So everyone is welcomed by USA who is lured by their human right rosy picture and in hope of safety in USA which is taken away by USA. And only those who can fulfill US requirement in building up there kill machine supply chain....food, clothing, fashion, entertainment, infrastructure....can enter and live there. And quite a numbers end up this way….>>….they abduct any one they want like aliens....who they don't like or want to use for propaganda/torture purposes poor people like Afia Siddique prisoner no 650..her case is tip of the iceberg (there are hundreds of thousand renditions by US authorities,today people missing all over world).....just to satisfy their in blood cannibalistic instinct ….They Starts with welcoming you by taking off your clothes at their airports, and close physical search of your women by their male security. NOT their fault, infact they give same respect to their own women too!!!!!! :)

Great American Freedom History (Full of Genocides & Bloody Massacres)
1- 150 million red indiians butc
hered by rednecks (american history encyclopedia 1970's Sky Blue cover) almost same pop todays Pakistan and half the pop of Europe and usa it self.
2- A-bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
3- Millions killed children.../women Vietnam.
4- Millions killed Iraq completely destroyed.
5-Worldwide CIA/Pentagon illegitimate jails for renditions and torture experiments.
6-Destroying (imploding) twin tower killing their own people and, blaming then attaching another 3 countries, Iraq, afghan, Pakistan.
7-Monopoly of biggest number one world business/industry of arms& ammunition. Creating artificial unrest throughout world after 2nd world war to earn profits in their arms business.eg. Iran Iraq war, Iraq Kuwait war and almost every war & insurgency in the world in last 65-70 years. Causing millions getting killed in Africa, causing famine, child war abuse …..endless death cycle.
8- US forces deployed in more than 120 countries of world, to promote and protect their malicious interests.
9-Regulatory Monopoly and single currency in world second largest black gold business, ie, oil
10- Supporting all illegitimate and corrupt governments of world to protect their heinous interests like manipulating and controlling the wealth of the world. e.g., When they topple or destroyed seize their illegal wealth which mostly protected (before getting seized ) in USA, UK, France or Swiss Banks , like King Iran trillions of dollars, Iraq Oil, Nigeria Oil and almost everywhere in the third world, present day Egypt ……A lesson for USA supported illegitimate governments all over world….that in the end all their looting will go to their masters….and their atrocities supported by their allies will haunt them back……like King Iran, Sadam and now history full of such examples…..good lesson to remember!!

ANYONE LIKE TO COMMENT ON ABOVE ON RECORD FACTS. THE WHOLE AMERICAN NATION IS WORKING MACHINE FOR THE SAME PURPOSE……good ones are only who are in their supply chain like food, clothing, fashion, entertainment, infrastructure to keep the cancer up and running!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And they don't mind it as anything can work until (which is always…piece of cake) there public opinion is tamed or tempered…. b/cause it’s their culture....Right...with no offence!!!

Please explain what you guys mean by tolerence. You keep killing human beings in hundreds of million and they should not speak...forget about try to protect themselves??????

After re- capturing span Christians went mad making laws like HERITIC killing everyone even their own...aka famous witch hunting....aka famous dark ages.... aka killing jews everywhere as there christ killers.

Thats why now a days when they are controlled by jewish lobby, no one can even deny holocaust in whole europe..... if u do.... u r persecuted......madness isn't it.......in IIWW not only 6 million jews were killed - 60 million other human beings were also killed….
infact jews use it as their moral blackmail…now in control telling …they have paid the price and their enough blood was shed by Christians…now if someone even deny the holocaust, he/she will be persecuted….forget about and do not try to remember about killing Christ.

They (jews) also promote atheism and all other believes and concepts through media which is in their control now like US Govt. Lobby, banking and many other things for their safeguard and divergence (as living right in between them) being Christ killers as per Christian believes due to which who are now dealing with all kind of new frenzy…hetro, gay, incest, teenage pragnancies, killin their unborn babies, there religious and confusion about other concepts or believes etc etc…..other then bringing destruction to ONLY weak nations who refuse to submit and then pose as ignorant which is their regular trait, though Muslims don’t believe in it………. (infact in IIWW rednecks killed each other fighting over the world they had illegitimately occupied and were ruling…..it was Allah’s Wraith on them)....good for us it brought freedom to rest of the world. That day is not far now when USA states will run over each other same way their ancestors did and free the whole world again. Ameen!!!!!

History is witness that it was Muslims in Span who were forcefully converted and in previously Muslim later Russian occupied states or African Muslims who were abducted by europeons and Americans for slavery….... Never in Islamic history, no records there were found which shows non-muslim forced conversion to Islam, whatever bloodshed or battles in past muslims fought, which were even not for the cause of Islam.

In fact Jews prospered in Islamic Span rule for more than 700 years.

What happened with Jews in history was totally wrong and unfair. But it does not justify what they are doing now!!!!

Freemasons - it is just another propaganda divergence story by usa jewish lobby now days everywhere, no worries most of us is aware of it. telling whole world it is not them it is there freemason masters: BS : since the time of red indians 150 million genocide till today’s Afghanistan. Trying to gain some moral ground and divert minds or to gain some level of sympathy atleast successfully within their own nation.

Like wmarkw, I intend to vote for Romney if he's available. I won't join the republican party so I won't be able to vote for him in the republican primaries in my state ... so it's up to the republicans to choose him - but this is where the truly rabid christians live, and these are the people who have the biggest problems with the mormons.

In and of itself, that's a fascinating thing to observe.

Romney was the republican governor of "the people's republic of Massachusetts", as so many conservatives refer to it.

He signed bills, promoted ideas, cooperated on issues that were in some cases antithetical to the stated opinions of his religion.

In other words, he was a governor of all the people, not just the mormons living in his state.

Even better, he was successful at it. He took pragmatic point of view.

We would get to pick and choose which conservative vs liberal issues where we could agree or disagree with him, but we would not have to make the same choices about his religion.

He's an excellent executive, an excellent manager of government. I only hope the religious fanatics infesting the republican party have the intelligence to pick him for their nominee, and not Huckabee or Palin.

@SteadfastImmovable

By all means, explain what Mormons believe. Does it not include Jesus Christ visiting Jews who traveled to North America after the Tower of Babel? Its in your primary holy book by the founder of your religion, and not in the archaeology or culture of North America. Is that just ignored now? Fair enough if it is. But when Mormons keep printing the book up and shoving it at me, I find it difficult to believe that it is just a metaphor, and regardless, it seems a poor choice to choose as a holy book something that contains not a shred of real historical information, in spite of being handed down on Golden Plates.

SteadfastImmovable Author Profile Page :

Ignorance on display by commenters two, three, four and six
-------------------------------------------
No ignorance is on display everyday in intolerant, ethnocentric Utah.

"If conservative Christian and Mormons share a political agenda, why do suspicions still plague Mormon politicians?"

That's easy. We conservative Christians are suspicious of everyone. We're even suspicious of each other. (Just follow any religious right blog to read the sputtering about other Christians.) Why would we treat Mormans any differently?

www.whatwouldamericanjesusdo.com

SteadfastImmovable

Mormons aggressively seek to spread their religion by sending legions of "missionaries" all over the United States, to straighten out or re-convert the apostate fallen. Yet, if you take these missionaries into your home, listen to them, gather information about Mormonism from them, which they convey to you, and then play it back to Mormons in a crticical way, they ALWAYS reply in a huff, " ... you don't know what you're talking about ... "

That really, really, really gets on my nerves. This little drama about all of the potential converts gone bad, and "not knowing what they're talking about," is also a favorite slogan of Catholics, and of Muslims.

Well, not being an expert on Mormonism, Catholicsm, or Islam, I am not allowed to ever speak even a single word of criticism of them, even though they are all flamboyantly proseltyizing and intolerant?

HAMILTONFED34 falls into the trap of repeating what others assert Mormon's believe rather than what Mormon's actually believe.

The best way to understand what believers believe (regardless of their faith) is to ask a believer. Such a person would point out that the Book of Mormon and the Bible are in complete agreement on the point of whether the appellation virgin Mary is deserved or not.

An honest reader who compares Luke 1 with 1 Nephi 11 will find this to be the case.

Specifically, 1 Nephi 11:18-20 thus states:

"And he said unto me: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son of God, after the manner of the flesh. And it came to pass that I beheld that she was carried away in the Spirit; and after she had been carried away in the Spirit for the space of a time the angel spake unto me, saying: Look! And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.
"

So, she was a virgin before Christ was conceived and still a virgin after He was born. All we know is what both Luke and Nephi wrote, that somehow Christ was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.

This is what Mormon's believe.

Ignorance on display by commenters two, three, four and six. When non-believers make claims as to what Mormons believe, you can be sure there is virtually no truth to it! Pretty laughable stuff.

And all they really accomplish is to make a display of their own ignorance and bigotry. And they might be surprised to learn of the referrals to Mormon missionaries generated by such comments. All couterproductive to their hateful purposes.

Of all the cults, except for maybe Islam, Mormonism is the most blasphemous and wicked.

It believes God the Father became a man and had physical sex with Mary to make Jesus.

Talk about ignorance and slavery.

After reading the comments by SAJANAS and SFCANATIVE I think the Post should add a "Report Egregiously ill-Informed Comment" link next to the "Report Offensive Comment" link.

How interesting that, according to Sharon Angle, Reid's religion is a "cult" but Bishop Romney, Elder Beck, and Huntsman's is not.

Some of my best wives were Mormon and Beck reminds me of their school yard bullies I grew up with in the intolerant, ethnocentric theocracy that is Utah.

I'm sorry, Mormons, but you follow the faith of a man whose process of revelation was the same as the Wizard of Oz. Admittedly, being indoctrinated from day one takes a toll, but certainly following a man who translated unseen golden tablets with a magic stone in a hat is not a hallmark of great intellectual honesty? Even more importantly, a man who had the first edition of his work stolen, and was unable to use the golden plates and magic translation stone to produce an identical copy? And who was unable to write it all down himself?
And that's not even engaging the content of the Book of Mormon, with its completely untrue account of Native Americans vs Jews, or the Church of Mormon's opposition to gay rights to the point where they have a tremendously high suicide rate amongst gay teens and Utah as a hidden underclass of exiled gay children thrown out by their own parents. And they refused to admit that black people had souls till the 1970s.
I'm all for giving people the benefit of the doubt, but if someone is a devote Mormon, they have a lot of explaining to do about how they square their religious outlook with both reality, and modern liberal values. And how they are planning to square their Presidency with the authority of their church (which has the right to cast you out). But I think this is really something every leader needs to elaborate on, since we want to elect the man, not his priest, minister, or imam.

The concern 98% of Americans who aren't Mormon have about Mormons is simple. It's their single-mindedness to spread a well documented plan of theocratic government throughout the world. Each temple they build, every move they make, is a well-orchestrated intent to one day become THE government of the world. That is the gospel according to Mormonism--world dominance as the only prescription for good over evil. They are a hugely political machine, secretly working behind the scenes to effect the change they want to see in their world. Mormon prophesy states their priesthood will rise up in the last days to save America, protect the constituion and usher in the second coming of Christ. That is what they're up to.

My father voted for Morris Udall in the 1976 Democratic primary. He had no idea Udall was a Mormon (and I doubt he'd have cared). I was too young to vote then.

I intend to vote for Mitt Romney, whether or not he believes in "Christianity, plus some very stupid ideas" to quote Sam Harris.