Just a couple of notes. First, I thank the author for a fine article. He is more charitable than the church, which often not only rejects the "sin" but the "sinner." Many RC bishops, in particular, continue to demonize gays, not just because of "gay" lifestyles, but because of their orientation. As to the blogger that declares the "one out of ten" to be bogus, that figure is an old one, but one that has held up rather well in studies over the years, which have generally held between six and ten percent of the population to be homosexual. The difference has to do with the nature of sexuality - it is not an "either/or," but a continuum. Some define what constitutes being "gay" differently than others. The six percent figures generally define it as those who are interested only in same sex relations, and who have - or had - same-sex partners. The ten percent figure represents those who understand themselves to be oriented primarily or only toward those of the same sex.

A note on the Pope's sermon this Christmas - if he wished to be more like Jesus, perhaps he should include please for those who are not just Jewish or Christian. A plea for tolerance and love for all would be more in keeping with Jesus' message, and not one directed more toward the protection of Christians alone. He singles out Iraqui and Palestinian Christians, but what about the many others who are subjected to discrimination because of their beliefs - including Muslims in our own country? I think Jesus would be interested in mentioning that they are also loved by God, and obje3cts of his concern.

Again, thanks for your article. Would that the "Christmas spirit" were more present everywhere.

╔╗─╔╗
║║─║║
║╚═╝╠══╦══╦══╦╗─╔╗
║╔═╗║╔╗║╔╗║╔╗║║─║║
║║─║║╔╗║╚╝║╚╝║╚═╝║
╚╝─╚╩╝╚╣╔═╣╔═╩═╗╔╝ EVERY-DAY
───────║║─║║─╔═╝║
───────╚╝─╚╝─╚══╝ LiKE A
╔══╗───╔╗╔╗───╔╗──────╔╗
║╔╗║──╔╝╚╣║───║║──────║║
║╚╝╚╦╦╩╗╔╣╚═╦═╝╠══╦╗─╔╣║
║╔═╗╠╣╔╣║║╔╗║╔╗║╔╗║║─║╠╝
║╚═╝║║║║╚╣║║║╚╝║╔╗║╚═╝╠╗
╚═══╩╩╝╚═╩╝╚╩══╩╝╚╩═╗╔╩╝
──────────────────╔═╝║
──────────────────╚══╝
-

█▀█░██░█▀█░█▀░██
█░█░█■░█▀█░█░░█■
█▀▀░█▄░█░█░█▄░█▄
█ &. . . . . . .
. . . . ╔╗ . . . . . .
. . . . ║║╔═╦╦╦═╗
. . . . ║╚╣║║║║╩╣
. . . . ╚═╩═╩═╩═╝ . .NO
. . . . ╔╗
. . . . ║║. . .╔╗
. . . . ║╚╦═╣╚╦═╗
. . . . ║║║╬║╔╣╩╣
. . . . ╚╩╩╩╩═╩═╝●
.
.
By: "JJ" http://onwapo.wordpress.com

ThatCatDavid, you called people vampires and said that whoever sided with them is against God. I hope that you are not Catholic because your comments are surely not Catholic in any sense. Yeah, we get that you hate gays but "vampires"? Now, really. The Bump, I disagree with you. This is an excellent article.

The article & many of the commentaries critical to Catholic tradition I find amazingly immature/almost infantile. Sure, we must become as children in humility before the expansive goodness & love of God, but LOVE also means respect for TRUTH. I am an adult. I want a religious tradition that treats me like an adult & encourages a reflection of the struggle between love & reason.
Love...for the "feelgood masses" is not one of maturity. TRUE LOVE requires not only friendship, but honesty, struggle & suffering on some level. ANYONE who believes TRUE LOVE does not entail suffering is deluded...again infantile at best. (Have you never suffered or cried at the loss of a loved one?) You are crying out of love.
If, as a Catholic, I am going to practice what my faith teaches, then I must orient myself in a loving manner, but also with REASONABLE obedience to WHAT I claim to love.
This raises a striking contrast to quote what Mrs. Quinn had to say on C-SPAN today. It was a wonderful segment...but she references the idea that Jesus was so "inclusive" of others, not exclusive...and I find this to be quite confusing & misleading. Jesus' offer of the TRUTH of Himself is open to everyone, but the offer is EXCLUSIVE! Jesus makes it very clear as does 2000 years of consistent Catholic Magesterial Teaching.
Jesus says,"I am the Way,THE TRUTH & the Life"...."If you love me, KEEP my commandments"...and...to every sinner he commands,"Go & sin no more. Can we stop white washing the wrestling match God calls us into? Lets all grow up & Cherish the Brawl!!!

feetxxxl1: of course we can. Homosexuality is against God. Anything that goes against his Holy Scriptures, is against him. His scriptures in both old and new testament call it a sin. Ergo, it is against him.Jesus upheld and taught the Mosaic laws as he said in Matthew 5:17. It doesnt get any more plain than that. Stop it with the all that matters is love perversion of Christianity.Yes love is a central theme in Christianity and God does require us to love him and each other, BUT and you consistently miss this point, he ALSO requires us to keep his commandments, not just TWO of them.

the point is that those who hold an interpretation that says that being homosexual is against god, cannot explain how being homosexual comes against the love of the 2nd and 3rd commandments.

feetxxxl1 : pasting it twice doesnt make it anymore true lol

its interesting that catholics no where in their discussion of homosexuality do they bring up the godlove(love one another as i have loved you) of the 2nd commandment(love your neighbor as yourself), which both romans and galatians say is the summation of all.....all.....all new covenant law.

in other words it is not church doctrine or belief system that is the summation of all new covenant law, but love.(anything without love is nothing or gains nothing 1cor13).

being homosexual does not come against this love. the fullness of this love can be lived out in being homosexual in the the same way it can be lived out being heterosexual.

I don't understand why any gay or lesbian would continue to be a Christian, catholic or not.
Posted by: slowe111 | December 22, 2010
--------------------------------------
I agree slowelll, I mean if you are going to go that route, why try and put your foot in a shoe that doesnt fit, and never will for the bulk of Christianity?I mean why hve to mitigate who you truly are(as is often argued) up against a system that rejects that practice. Would be so much less debating, arguments, uncomfortable situations. Or, simply, as many have done, join gay only or pro gay churches. Stop trying to forcefeed mainstream denominations something they wont stomach.Secular acceptance is fine and makes sense in this pluralistic and free society(i.e military and rights as condoned by the government) but religious ones, no.But then again, when I think about it I cant really blame gays who seek Christian lives, afterall thats just a human condition, all kinds of folks who live contrary to the word of God still seek out Christian lives within the church. Too often people either try to live that life while hiding the secret sinful things, or they simply say if you cant beat it, just justify the lifestyle.Sadly, this isnt limited to the gay community.

the author mistakenly distinguishes between catholic and many evangelicals in that being gay and practicing differentiate between sins. Many evangelicals hold that view as well. Which is why those who argue against such views are mistaken when they claim love is not being taken into account. It is quite possible for christians to love everyone, including homosexuals, they do not however have to love the behavior.I can love my "brother" without loving everything he does, especially those things which are sinful.

its interesting that the catholic church no where in their discussion of homosexuality do they bring up the godlove(love one another as i have loved you) of the 2nd commandment(love your neighbor as yourself), which both romans and galatians say is the summation of all.....all.....all new covenant law.

in other words it is not church doctrine or belief system that is the summation of all new covenant law, but love.(anything without love is nothing or gains nothing 1cor13).

being homosexual does not come against this love. the fullness of this love can be lived out in being homosexual in the the same way it can be lived out being heterosexual.

Thebump

There is nothing wrong with being gay, except for people like you, who don't like gay people because they are gay. If you would go away, that would solve the problem just as easily as if gay people would go away.

I believe that the latest from the Vatican is that gay people are "intrinsically disordered."

All of this is legalistic non-sense, purposefully designed to hop-scotch around the truth that there is nothing wrong with being gay and nothing wrong with gay people.

To say that you have nothing against gay people, but only with the practice of homosexuality, is mean-spirited and hypocritial. This is a position of conscious and premediated insincerity, since the very nature and defining quality of the person whom you say you love is what you actually hate.

Catholic legalistic game-playing is tiresome. The Pope may think he is fooling the people, but does he really think that God buys into all of this baloney?

How dumb does he think God is?

Thatcatdavid:
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church doesn't say that homosexuality is an "objectice disorder" "
From the catechism:
' 2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition. '

The author is truely foolish and his comments are false. The Catechism of the Catholic Church doesn't say that homosexuality is an "objectice disorder" it says that it is an "intrinsic disorder'. Jesus said that those who want to save their lives will lose it and people like the author feel that they cannot continue without being politically correct towards homosexuals. Homosexuals are anti-Christ, they are vampires and any one who sides with them is against God.

HAPPY EVERYDAY WORLD (like a Birthday!)
.
..
…
............................. ._.
........................ ._.|._.|._.
.................... , .|._.| .. |._.|._
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |._.|
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
................ ._.| .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
........... | .| .) .\ . . ..^ ..^ ..^ . .|
........... | .| . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... | .| . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... |. | . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... \ .\ . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
............ \ .\ . . . . . . . . . . . ../
............. ). \ . . . . . . . . . . .(
............ /. .. \ . . . . . . . . . . .\
.......... / . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . .. \
.......... . . . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . . .\
.......... . . . . . . . \ .. . . . . . . . . ..\
Praise "IT" (NOta HE & NOta SHE)
..
...
……….________♥
………._______♥♥♥
……….______♥♥♥♥♥
……….♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
………._♥♥♥♥♥_____♥♥♥♥♥♥
……….__♥♥♥♥_____♥♥♥♥♥
………._♥♥♥♥♥______♥♥♥♥♥
……….♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
……….______♥♥♥♥♥
………._______♥♥♥
……….________♥
…………….….... +
......................... ##
........................ j##Oj
……………..... ,##O#j
………….…... j#O###,
…………….. j####O##j
…..……….. ,###O#####j
………….. ,#O#########j
………… j#####O#######,
..……… ,#######O#######j
………. ,#jj########O#####j,
.......................... _|_.
.......................... \_./
...
..
.
PEACE,PAZ,SHALOM,SALAAM,AHIMSA,MIR, ZHINGYU....
.,.
.,,.
Credits "JJ" http://onwapo.wordpress.com/

The author's idiotic commentaries invariably are near occasions of sin, eliciting as they do the most uncharitable reactions. Here goes...

One, the claim that as many one in ten people are primarily same-sex oriented is utterly preposterous, purely ideological cant.

Two, the discovery of a "gene" would have no impact on the moral equation, which takes as a given that erotic impulses are essentially involuntary. Identifying a specific gene for same-sex attraction, however, would open up the possibility of a permanent cure for this abnormality. Of course then the author would have to move on to some other chic, politically correct obsession.

All of this hatred in the name of religions....

Catholicism has a problem that neither Judaism nor Islam nor Hinduism has and that is the Vatican.

Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, and Jewish Renewal ordain gay rabbis. The rabbi at the synagogue we occasionally attend is headed by a brilliant lesbian. Her congregation comprises a very diverse bunch--elderly, middle-aged, families with young children, mainly straight but with a significant gay presence. Most are of European origin, but occasional Mizrahis like us wander in. The rabbi is much loved because she is so learned. Traditional and modern Orthodox and Haredi have not caught up, but since they are making progress in other domains, one holds out hope for them.

Some Protestant denominations have gained tremendous ground.

Hindus and Muslims are struggling with the question, but they have no central authority to look to and this should help them as it has helped with the Protestants and Jews.

I deeply hope that the Catholic powers that be reconsider their position. It creates so much pain and confusion, and, surely, that is not what Catholicism or any religion should be about.

"COMING OUT FOR CHRISTMAS"
(Sung to the tune of "Hark the Herald Angels Sing")

I intend to drop a bomb
On my dear old dad and mom.
For this year, without a doubt
Is the Christmas I come out.

First I`ll get their full attention.
Then slip in a subtle mention:
"Tasty turkey! Perfect Peas!
Could someone pass (I`m Gay) the cheese?"
That should do the job okay
When I come out on Christmas Day.

Oh say can you see it now
Watch my parents have a cow.
Or perhaps, if fate is kind
The'll insist that they don't mind.

Then they'll say "We always guessed.
After all look how you're dressed.
Seven earrings in each ear!
We're not quite that dense, my dear."
They'll adore me anyway.
When I come out on Christmas Day.

Coming out to everyone
Makes the winter doldrums fun.
It's a noble thing to do.
Why don't you come on out too.

Make the choice! Damn consequence!
Lift your voice, get off the fence!
Shoult it from the highest roof:
Gay is great and you're the proof.
Make this Christmas bright and Gay.
Come on out on Christmas Day!

(Words by Craig Sturgis, 1992)

I don't understand why any gay or lesbian would continue to be a Christian, catholic or not.

Nice thought Arroyo, but not going to happen while the Pope's "Brothers in Christ" continue to demonize the victims:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/20/AR2010122001981.html?hpid=sec-religion