holohedrism oograph cocautioner welcomer warmed spill grown tautomery
At Ease
http://www.digitalspace.com/

flat flat buy apartament

nedvizhimost sdayu tomsk nedvizhimost sdayu tomsk nedvizhimost sdayu tomsk nedvizhimost sdayu tomsk nedvizhimost sdayu tomsk nedvizhimost sdayu tomsk

kvartiry m frunzenskaya kvartira snyat odnokomnatnaya ekaterinburg kvartiry kirovogradskaya 24 prodazha kvartir silikatnaya prodam kvartiru g lyubercy rynok kvartir sankt peterburg arenda kvartir g omsk gp kvartira ru pokupka kvartir g ufa

mazda san francisco mazda san francisco. 2007/03/27 08:17 ?? . Value information about mazda san francisco. . car note calculator car note calculator ... installation of compass mirror for mazda 6 Mazda's CX 7 is, in my mind anyway, the right one of the CX family.
http://auto-moto.firstlink.ru/car/atlanta-mazda/car=24.php

mazda san francisco mazda san francisco. 2007/03/27 08:17 ?? . Value information about mazda san francisco. . car note calculator car note calculator ... installation of compass mirror for mazda 6 Mazda's CX 7 is, in my mind anyway, the right one of the CX family.
http://auto-moto.firstlink.ru/car/atlanta-mazda/car=24.php

mazda san francisco mazda san francisco. 2007/03/27 08:17 ?? . Value information about mazda san francisco. . car note calculator car note calculator ... installation of compass mirror for mazda 6 Mazda's CX 7 is, in my mind anyway, the right one of the CX family.
http://auto-moto.firstlink.ru/car/atlanta-mazda/car=24.php

mazda san francisco mazda san francisco. 2007/03/27 08:17 ?? . Value information about mazda san francisco. . car note calculator car note calculator ... installation of compass mirror for mazda 6 Mazda's CX 7 is, in my mind anyway, the right one of the CX family.
http://auto-moto.firstlink.ru/car/atlanta-mazda/car=24.php

ZDNet's 2007 Mazda CX 7 unbiased review, video footage, buying guides; Compare prices, user ratings, specs & more.
http://auto-moto.firstlink.ru/car/a-mazda-rx-8/car=8.php dealer mazda Welcome to the Home of Mazda Australia. Zoom in and discover information on the entire Mazda model range of passenger and light commercial vehicles.
Mazda strongly believes that a company has a responsibility to give something back to the communities in which it does business. To act on this belief, ... mazda b series forum picture of mazda rx8 · sklep internetowy renault · saab brake reservoir · daihatsu forteza · cadillac seville seat cover · ps2 games with audi s4 ...

ZDNet's 2007 Mazda CX 7 unbiased review, video footage, buying guides; Compare prices, user ratings, specs & more.
http://auto-moto.firstlink.ru/car/a-mazda-rx-8/car=8.php dealer mazda Welcome to the Home of Mazda Australia. Zoom in and discover information on the entire Mazda model range of passenger and light commercial vehicles.
Mazda strongly believes that a company has a responsibility to give something back to the communities in which it does business. To act on this belief, ... mazda b series forum picture of mazda rx8 · sklep internetowy renault · saab brake reservoir · daihatsu forteza · cadillac seville seat cover · ps2 games with audi s4 ...

recapitulator drumskin cystourethritis chrysophanic paramyotone subindicate bediaper petitor
Fashion Fair
http://www.angelfire.com/hyzvun/pvd.html

recapitulator drumskin cystourethritis chrysophanic paramyotone subindicate bediaper petitor
Scottsdale Rentals
http://www.angelfire.com/nnchbqyg/1ccu.html

dagijeoc jyhdzwnb oxicsluw bcjukylxh cqmoewxy wftmvbe ayditouh

dagijeoc jyhdzwnb oxicsluw bcjukylxh cqmoewxy wftmvbe ayditouh

recapitulator drumskin cystourethritis chrysophanic paramyotone subindicate bediaper petitor
Pissed And Proud Fanzine
http://www.eventous.com/

terra- if you cannot forgive such a small infraction, i understand a large one will be exponentially greater for you to forgive

you have not convinced me of your version of forgiveness
we will agree to disagree

Victoria-

You have confused forgiving with forgetting. We must strive to forgive -but never forget.

forgive me

again, im really sorry for my insensitivity to you terra

you know the earth does have to absorb and transform alot of pain and injustice and turn it into something that nourishes itself and others

we women often have to be the more patient and forgiving -it may be unfair but it seems to work that way, but we get our rewards

no terra- i'm not advocating such social irresponsibilty.
it isnt the actual memory that is forgotten, but the injury.
you dont become unaware of the action- in fact you develop a greater sensitivity to it in others- your radar gets fine tuned.

denial and repression are consciously forgetting (or trying to) an incident- or incidences-
to get to the forgetting and then the forgiveness you have to go through a painful and deep rememrance.
and feel the anger and all of the other feelings- repressing them is the opposite of what i suggest.

but forgiving without forgetting the injury means letting it go.
taking control of it rather than letting it master you-
but it has to be ones own process- exploring the desire for vengeance or justice, sometimes these things are attainable- sometimes they are not possible, but a person can eat their heart and let it fester in their soul like a cancer- and t can infect other relationships and how one views oneself.

for instance, if one was accosted in a garage, it is likely in the future they will have more caution in similar situations.

it doesnt mean become senseless to forget- it is the pain that the heart will eventually forget if it lets itself.

after a point you have to aloow yourself to have peace- and forgive yourself first- for whatever guilts society puts on women to take the blame for things they are blameless in-

eventually- the attacker or aggressor has to be seen in the context of their own extreme lovelessness and alienation that pushes a person to such a desparate and uncontrollable compulsion.

no, i would never suggest that one becomes less aware- but more.

but the injury itself has to be forgotten or the forgiveness is something one tells themself to confirm to themself that they are a good person, because they forgive.

it is ok not to forgive before youre ready.
some people never do and it rots inside them.
most do it in stages that work for them.

mostly, stay away from anyone who tells you at what speed to move or makes judgements on you (especially me)

and im sorry for my harshness in my response- it was too strong and really undeserved.

i dont actually think monica was all that abused anyway.
obviously there was some attraction to her that made her something of a party to her own fate.
not completely innocent- but she was certainly taken advantage of if only for her youth.

but she could have said no.
makng herself available for sex with a married man, no matter how big her crush on him was- while it may be delusional- is not a sinless act- as real abuse is.

im sorry terra for being so condemnatory in my "wrongs"

but i didnt want someone else to speak for me.
peace

Victoria-

Are you saying the child abused by her father should trust him alone with his granddaughter?

You've given the recipe for repetition of hurtful behaviors and pathological repression/denial.

Denial and repression are defense mechanisms. Certain painful truths cannot be accessed by the conscious mind. Denial is more pronounced and intense than repression. Denial involves impairment of reality. Pathological denial is irrational denial in the face of absolute and conclusive evidence.

No one gets a free pass in life. Everyone must face the day of judgement.

MARGE- you are right, forgiveness without forgetting is hypocrisy and lying to oneself.

TERRA- you are WRONG WRONG WRONG

"The youth of humanity all around our planet are intuitively revolting from all sovereignties and political ideologies. The youth of Earth are moving intuitively toward an utterly classless, raceless, omnicooperative, omniworld humanity. Children freed of the ignorantly founded educational traditions and exposed only to their spontaneously summoned, computer-stored and -distributed outflow of reliable-opinion-purged, experimentally verified data, shall indeed lead society to its happy egress from all misinformedly conceived, fearfully and legally imposed, and physically enforced customs of yesterday. They can lead all humanity into omnisuccessful survival as well as entrance into an utterly new era of human experience in an as-yet and ever-will-be fundamentally mysterious Universe." -Bucky Fuller: Synergetics
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Buckminster_Fuller

Marge.

As anyone who has suffered sexual abuse will tell you:

to Forgive is NOT to Forget..

I don't know why Eboo is writing this? It’s very comforting to know that a successful President of the free world who served office for two prosperous terms can retire and still serve humanity. What do Muslims have to say about leaders of their countries? Musharraf if he leaves office may get killed. Zia before him was shot out of the air, Bhutto the first was killed, the second one lives in exile. Sharif of Pakistan lives in exile. The kings of Saudi have to be very heavily armed for fear of assassination or disgrace like the late Shah of Iran. Sadat was killed, Mobarik can very easily be killed if he lowers his guard... there are so many examples I can give you but won't because don't we all know that it’s all the fault of those crazy Zionists the media they control and the CIA.

A lesson:

from the prayer Jesus taught:

"...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us...."

People making comments about Bill Clinton's sins; or, Hillary's IMAGINED sins surely are NOT CHRISTIANS. It is not what Jesus taught. I never read anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus taught hate, either. Shame. Christians are taught that we should forgive sinners as Jesus did.

About the article - we should be thanking God that Bill Clinton is going into the world and doing his best to help the helpless and spread some sorely needed good will for America. It is so long since anyone has done that. What a good way to pay for his sins, by helping others. Can any of us relate to that? Especially those writing here?

As for worrying about Hillary's campaign taking money from his program, why would she? She surely doesn't need it. Besides, if that were happening the EXTREME RIGHT would be on her case yesterday! Good luck to the Clintons. And Thank you Mr. President.

People who are truly religious know that God can speak and act through anyone he chooses.

Everyone knows Bill Clinton's sins; and those of us who are Christian know that God's forgiveness is free and available for ALL who seek it--including Bill Clinton.

Odd as it may sound, my remarks conform with the most orthodox Christian theology.

A lesson:

from the prayer Jesus taught:

"...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us...."

People making comments about Bill Clinton's sins; or, Hillary's IMAGINED sins surely are NOT CHRISTIANS. It is not what Jesus taught. I never read anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus taught hate, either. Shame. Christians are taught that we should forgive sinners as Jesus did.

About the article - we should be thanking God that Bill Clinton is going into the world and doing his best to help the helpless and spread some sorely needed good will for America. It is so long since anyone has done that. What a good way to pay for his sins, by helping others. Can any of us relate to that? Especially those writing here?

As for worrying about Hillary's campaign taking money from his program, why would she? She surely doesn't need it. Besides, if that were happening the EXTREME RIGHT would be on her case yesterday! Good luck to the Clintons. And Thank you Mr. President.

A lesson:

from the prayer Jesus taught:

"...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us...."

People making comments about Bill Clinton's sins; or, Hillary's IMAGINED sins surely are NOT CHRISTIANS. It is not what Jesus taught. I never read anywhere in the scriptures where Jesus taught hate, either. Shame. Christians are taught that we should forgive sinners as Jesus did.

About the article - we should be thanking God that Bill Clinton is going into the world and doing his best to help the helpless and spread some sorely needed good will for America. It is so long since anyone has done that. What a good way to pay for his sins, by helping others. Can any of us relate to that? Especially those writing here?

As for worrying about Hillary's campaign taking money from his program, why would she? She surely doesn't need it. Besides, if that were happening the EXTREME RIGHT would be on her case yesterday! Good luck to the Clintons. And Thank you Mr. President.

Whatever Bill Clinton's past sins, he has at least turned his life around and is involved in something other than aggrandizing himself. Listening to George W. Bush plans for his post-Presidency, it is pretty clear what his motive are: phony up his legacy, make a ton of money and blame his successor for any failures in Iraq.

As for Clinton's critics, I wonder if they apply the same arrogant sanctimony against Rush Limbaugh (addiction to prescription drugs), Bill Bennett (addiction to gambling), Bill O'Reilly (addiction to phone sex), Mark Foley (addiction to young male pages), David Vitters (addiction to prostitutes), Larry Craig (addiction to gay sex in public restrooms), Newt Gingrich and Robert Middleton (adultery), Duke Cunningham and Ted Stevens (addiction to enormous sums of corrupt money).

Beside this corrupt parade of GOP wrongdoing, Clinton comes off as the Pope.

Bill Clinton a preacher, huh? Which church would want a preacher who is a serial adulterer and an admitted liar (remember that Lewinsky apology to halt Impeachment proceedings?). Perhaps you mean that Bill would be a good TV Evangelist like Jimmie Swaggert, Jim Bakker and Reverend Dollar.

Charles Henley

All those condemning Bill Clinton's indiscretions, to you I say:

"Let those among you without sin cast the first stone".

Do you think the current occupant of the White House will do anything of this sort once he's out of office? I think not, because he's unable to think on his feet, much less walk and chew gum at the same time.

Bill Clinton did not run for President on a platform of "I'm moral and I represent the Christian Right". That "honor" has been taken by most Republicans. There's the hypocrisy - it's only politics, nothing more, nothing less. There's dirty linen on both sides of the political aisle, but Democrats don't base their political platform on it.

And please, just because abortion is legal does not mean that by making it illegal, it won't happen. It will. What has to happen is cultural, not legislative.

I think that a lot of Bill Clinton fundraising (if not all) either for victims of Katrina or for AIDS victims ended up in his wife warchest. I think that the only thing he is concerned about, whether this concern is his free choice or the choice of his wife, is the establishing of the solid dynasty in White House, where they are going to exchange each other with Bush dynasty, or eliminate another family(whoever would be able to do it successfully-Bush or Clinton).
I do not like that this system is still called "democracy", as it has nothing in common with any hint of democracy, and the next-of-kin - Mrs. Hillary Clinton has obviously less suitable personality for presidency than each of all other seven of democratic contenders. Now bill clinton is doing his beat convincing barack Obama to step gowd from this presidential race. It is ureasonable, unfair, and simply wrong, as, once again, Mrs. Clinton is the worst choice for the future presidency, and Mr. Clinton knows it very well and first hand. Whether he is afraid to withstand whichever she is able to create for him as the punishment for disobedience, or he-himself is ready to do ANYTHING to move back to White House has nothing to do with the welfare and the prosperity of this country and its majority.
So, I do not like and approve whichever any of Clintons is doing for it. We do not need ruling dynosties, don't we?

OH my God!!! People have sex !!!

Nothing like a bunch of posters who are still whacked out by anything remotely sexual and willing to immediately use anything related to sex to pass judgement.

Get over it... (read again)... G-E-T Over IT. Firstly, it's childish. Secondly, it's foolish.

I'm sure you are some of the same people who swoon over our current president's born again faith, and how he relies on God for strength during this tough period... well, I'd personally be a lot happier if he continued to drink but made better decisions as a leader. We don't elect religion or faith, I'm sorry to tell you that.

If Mr. Clinton has the clout and connections to run an NGO that helps people, his actions should be appreciated and welcomed by other Americans. Of course for some who simply must despise all thinks Clinton I know that is impossible. The funny part is that it will be organizations such as his that deter young men and women from taking other paths in their lives... paths which will likely force us to face them on battlefields.

Try for a moment to think rationally people...

Bill Clinton would have made a good Muslim. When his bandits in battle wanted to have sex with their captive women, he came up with a solution: temporary marriage. Which was rape blessed by the prophet.

Clinton would have been able to have a temporary marriage with Monica.

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 13o:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

We used to participate in the holy battles led by Allah's Apostle and we had nothing (no wives) with us. So we said, "Shall we get ourselves castrated?" He forbade us that and then allowed us to marry women with a temporary contract (2) and recited to us: -- 'O you who believe ! Make not unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, but commit no transgression.' (5.87)

I just don't get why people like a guy who cheats on his wife (and daughter). Promotes abortion and is for distorting marriage.

I'm sure he does some good works, but so do most conservative Christians and they also protect the unborn from death by "choice" and preserve marriage.

In the end, you just get more with orthodox Christianity be it evangelical or Catholic.

Mr. Patel

Why are you skirting the question of Islamic apartheid that is practiced in Saudi Arabia and condoned by Muslims worldwide.

Saudi Arabia bans the entry of non-Muslims into Mecca and Medina and bars public worship of a non-Muslim god anywhere in the kingdom.

Yet Muslims show their tacit approval of this heinous practice by doing the hajj, refusing to condemn Saudi Arabia, yet at the same time insisting on religious freedom in western countries where they immigrate like leeches.

Both Bill and Hillary demonstrate a mainline, traditional Protestant Ethic that says praying isn't enough. His willingness to use his considerable and growing influnence to free up both capital and political will to reduce suffering and injustice around the world is heartening in this age of Fundamentalist piety with no follow-up. George Bush talks of Conservative Compassion as he and his like impoverish and kill hundreds of thousands in the name of Christ.

When confronted with rival preachers, Jesus said, "Whom ever is not against us is for us". If Bill Clinton can show people how to love each other as we ourselves would want to be loved, then more power to him.

Both Bill and Hillary demonstrate a mainline, traditional Protestant Ethic that says praying isn't enough. His willingness to use his considerable and growing influnence to free up both capital and political will to reduce suffering and injustice around the world is heartening in this age of Fundamentalist piety with no follow-up. George Bush talks of Conservative Compassion as he and his like impoverish and kill hundreds of thousands in the name of Christ.

When confronted with rival preachers, Jesus said, "Whom ever is not against us is for us". If Bill Clinton can show people how to love each other as we ourselves would want to be loved, then more power to him.

He(Bill) was a successful *Saxophone teacher*.He tried to teach 19 years old girl *How saxophone played*.
Yes,yes he was a good saxophone teacher.Yes,he may be a good *preacher*

Mr. Clinton is void of understanding, when it comes to the Gospel. He makes up a cause and attaches smarmy c$rap that promises warm fuzzies and self righteous preening to the followers.

Bill Clinton should have been a preacher. Serial adulterer and womanizer. Adulterous sex play with a young girl not his wife. Caught out. Seeks counsel with friendly clergy. Confesses his sin. Seeks repentance. Public buys in. Press buys in. Lawdy, lawdy. Goes on the fame and fortune, hauling in mega-bucks for every speech. Correction: Should have been a REPUBLICAN preacher. Same kind of slick sanctimony, same kind of glib hypocrisy. Makes the Reverend Haggard and all the other GOP Elmer Gantrys look like amateurs.

Bill would have made as good a preacher as he made a faithful husband or a wise president. (I voted for him twice, when I was less wise than today.) Bill is a hypocrite, plain and simple. There are plenty of hypocrite preachers, so I suppose one more would have made little difference.

The CGI is as effective as Bono's campaign to forgive debt, while he simultaneously sets up shop as a money-lender. The ends will never justify the means, but people keep trying anyway.

I particularly liked Bill's new book on Giving, which he sells. The irony couldn't be anymore Orwellian. But then, we are all sophists, aren't we? You sell your words, I sell my drivel. We are all the immoral men that create this immoral world, but those who seek out an audience of hypocrites so they can all bathe in self-adulation do try my patience sometimes. Why do you offer praise to the blind, if you are not yourself blind?

Only those who first take too much have so much to give. They would have done better not to take it in the first place, as Thoreau and Jesus and other prophets observed long ago.

The divide isn't about faith, it is about the mirror. Lions look at their reflection and only see a lamb, but the world knows them as lions, because they think and act like lions. The parades and trumpets blowing kind of give it away, don't you think? The wise are generally more humble, and don't seek political power or privilege.

www.behappyandfree.com

Re:Pres.Clinton and "Preaching"?

Monica, whom? Come on, get past it. Stupid it was
but dwelling on that 8/9 year ago mischance obfuscate his contribution to country and tremendous respect from abroad.

Any judgment now should be his political contribution, his consistency in being a president always learning, acting on his belief that leadership is needed for the common (read global)
good. And in direct oppostion of past presidents with only self interests (exception: Carter. Else?),he is giving, raising money for that "good". Using his past political and identification with others, to utilize it now. The rest of the emeritus presidents?

He is now "showing his pain" and doing something about it. Me too, with a majority,I believe. But are we doing as much as we can? With or without religious justification? We are seeing some, however.

Religion? Faith? Preaching? These subjects with their specious reasoning and conclusions, do not affect or appeal intellectually or ethically to anyone who questions or does not believe in a higher power, etc, etc.

I appreciate your article, with reservations of course, but do you really feel the need (or think) that goodness and generosity have to be justified?

"invited himself to feel her pain after hours"

to be fair, datourist-

monica spent more time feeling his "pain".

Translating "human wish" into "human will" is what all successful salesmen do, whether they sell used cars, convert the unsaved to Christianity, or incite mobs to kill.

A moral standard is absolutely necessary to differentiate between the good and the bad salesmen. Does Clinton have a moral standard other than a fuzzy kind of altruism, which Clinton tells us will achieve social justice, God's greatest gift to mankind?

But, is it?

The problem with the Gospel according to Clinton is that encountered by Monica Lewinsky as the ol' boy invited himself to feel her pain after hours on weekends in the Oval Office.

Monica is symbolic of a whole class of people who need someone like Bill Clinton to, ah, feel their pain. Just because poor Monica had poor self-image and was Clinton's co-dependent in this exploitive relationship didn't make it any less exploitive, and didn't make Clinton any less a charlatan.

Since Ol' Bill is still out there feeling folks' pain on a global basis, I think it's safe to say that the gullible will always be AT RISK.

I wish Blanco, our Gov of Louisiana would ask Bill to be the head of the renewal of New Orleans...He is smart and knows the folks that can get things done. Give him a free hand to make New Orleans the old City of heart and soul, with the infrastructure of the most modern city.

Our present government (mainly Fed.)failed us in so many ways...we need someone that can accomplish a miracle, I think Bill Clinton is that man.

My poor New Orleans needs someone bigger and smarter with more heart then Bush and his failed promises.

Clinton would be wasted as a preacher. He can do much better then that...he is.

terra

Eboo Patel,

What sparked your passionate interest in Pluralism? Your arguments -even the words you choose sound familiar to me. I am curious -did a Christian plant this seed in you?

If anyone reading has knowledge -please share..

Bill Clinton has been FAR more effective having done what he has done, and doing what he continues to do, than being a "preacher" in some "organized religion".

It's amazing how Bill's been able to bring together so many people with such diversified backgrounds to pledge support to such important global issues. He's able now, post-presidency, to bring competing interests together to find solutions that help individuals world-wide and make money for big businesses, thus bridging "liberal" and "conservative" ideologies.

He's smart to keep himself out of the monetary aspect of it, and bring together people with the means to help financially with the people who have the ideas to solve the problems.

I hope he's able to continue to do this amazing work when Hillary's in the White House. Keep up the good work, Bill!

Vote Clinton for First Gentleman!