sgteky rxcjtvqe srnzatvkg kjpcvztq sptzd sbahtrf yadxfv

sgteky rxcjtvqe srnzatvkg kjpcvztq sptzd sbahtrf yadxfv

sgteky rxcjtvqe srnzatvkg kjpcvztq sptzd sbahtrf yadxfv

thank you samir, that was very genteel- (unusual on these boards)

no problem a handle-

i asked the same question 4 times-
clearly, if you had an answer, you'd have formed one by now.

none of it is worth nitpicking about or causing ill will

peace

Victoria,

ASA. Leave ignorant people to themselves. I enjoy reading your posts and hearing your views.

JazakAllah khair for expressing them so eloquently.

With love and peace,
Samir

I think I'll just sit back and read the incisive words of Victoria and Louis, and admire their comprehension skills and analytical abilities without further comment.

PS

Handle...

Perusing more of your abysmal stuff we see:

"...ludicrous...simplistic...what the rest of the world thinks (!).. your problem is..." and that the fruits of one of your (too) many snotty posts.
Most of your insults take more space..

Where did you come from? And do you suppose you succeed in denigrating Muslims...making friends for Jews?

Handle,

God you're obnxioius! Everyone is "silly...closed minded...stupid...and of course you foist every possible insult to everything Muslim.
Your're typical...a know if all who has very little to offer. Surely your experience has been thus. Every one would have spotted it in your first paragraph, first post.
And when you're telling everyone else how they must respond to you..."....can you reply sans..."consider how foolish YOU sound.

Handle,

God you're obnxioius! Everyone is "silly...closed minded...stupid...and of course you foist every possible insult to everything Muslim.
Your're typical...a know if all who has very little to offer. Surely your experience has been thus. Every one would have spotted it in your first paragraph, first post.
And when you're telling everyone else how they must respond to you..."....can you reply sans..."consider how foolish YOU sound.

HANDLE- im sorry if i was telling you what you think-
i didnt mean to disrespect your intelligence in that way-

of course you can think for yourself- thats why i put your comments in quotes- so i distinguish between what you said, intead of reinterprting it for you- and i respond to your thoughts-


i was posting what i think-

i DID make the observation that you are seeing extremisim where it isnt- but that also is my own subjective opinion

but the question is actually the same-

your critique was that guliani and robertson arent allied because of a mutual htred of muslims- but something else.

what is that something else?

guliani, for example, doesnt think waterboarding is torture-
a pretty hardline stance

what exactly is it that you feel unifies the two in their strange bed of political expediency?

w

Victoria

I have read carefully your thoughtful and intelligent response to my post.

Thank you for taking the time to tell me what I think. I am pleased to be enlightened as to what my thoughts have been and grateful for your guiding me to this new-found realization.

handle- well- the issue is pat robertson's strange alliance with giuliani-
what you think of me personally is not really germaine-

AS YOU SAID-
"The main issue for Rudy is how to exploit the current fear of Muslims into a winning presidential campaign."
The MAIN ISSUE? Gimme a break.
This is paranoia run rampant. Trust me, the MAIN issue in this Presidential campaign is NOT fear of MUSLIMS. Never has been and never will be the MAIN issue."

mr patel never said the MAIN issue in the overall campaign is fear of muslims-

he said the main issue FOR RUDY GULIANI, not the entire campaign

you cant make the distinction between the 2?

cant you discuss an issue rationally?

theres a wide difference between responding to terrorism and exploiting peoples fears

pat robertson does NOT make the distinction between terrorists and muslim

rudy hasnt been seen to do so either-

ive watched the debates-

the moderators have commented on rudys one trick pony
the pundits have all certainly sidelined him for this

you brought up oil- which is at 93 dollars a barrel today-
oil is an issue affected by american intervention in muslim countries

so- you seem to be confusing the issues

as i asked (twice) what is your theory as to why roberson and giuliani have joined forces?

if its not their mutual distrust of muslims in general, what is coalescing them?

like i said before-
keeping hillary out of office is the impetus

hating muslims is the cohesive unifying issue that seems to be galvanizing roberston and giuliani

whats your theory?

and as remarked upon by mr patel-
it seems pat r. made a decision as to who he hates more, muslims or gays

rudy is pro-gay- no secret there
clearly pat r. has to overlook that

suspecting his hatred of muslims is great enough to make him overlook that is fair assesment here

exploiting fear of the public is a fair analysis

a non-muslim deouncing terrorism isnt worrisome or the cause of this article

im a muslim and i denounce terrorism regularly

but you seem to think that the only words coming out of the mouths of muslims should be a continual stream of denial

and simple political observations are invalidated if a muslim mentions muslims?

i have to disagree that fear of muslims isnt an issue here-

national security, the war against muslims in iraq- (they ARE muslims over there a handle)
is what kept george dubya in office

again, as you said.
"If every criticism of evil by those who happen to be Muslims is treated as a swipe at the religion as a whole, we have an inordinately inappropriate reaction."

robertson has stated all muslims are satanic
giuliani has made no efforts at all to make a distinction between terrorists and muslims

so perceiving it as a swipe against all muslims is also pretty fair
it is what it is

anyway, i think youve gotten carried away
youre seeing extremism and reactionary behavior when its just observations
muslims can have opinions about politics too without having to preface each sentence with long denunciations of terrorism
which seems to be what you expect
im not running for president so i dont have to construct a whole platform, ok?

heres another interesting note-

where is the condemnation of the PKK, the terrorists who have massacred 37,000 (muslim) turks inthe past 10 years, and are amassed at the border continuing strikes into turkish civilian populations as we speak from northern iraq (an area under american control right now)?

where is the condemnation of musharraf, who is a dictator suspending democratic elections,and the constitution in pakistan?

do you think you can reply sans ad hominems and reasonably?

what do you think is rudys platform if not 911, fear-mongering his way into the presidency?

thats rudys only platform so far.

Victoria, with all respect, I think I got it all and with even more respect, having read your posts on this forum, I think that you are about the most closed-minded person here when it comes to discussing anything about Muslims, Islam, the Koran, the Prophet (PBUH), Israel, etc.

Please go back and read the first three paragraphs of Mr. Patel's piece. He begins with the silly theorizing (satirical, to be sure, but pure silliness) that Rudy might have sought to convince Papa Right Wing Robertson that hating Muslims is more important than hating gays.

This is where Eboo Patel and the rest of the so-called MODERATE Muslims get is wrong ab initio. There is no more hope for a rational discussion. If every criticism of evil by those who happen to be Muslims is treated as a swipe at the religion as a whole, we have an inordinately inappropriate reaction.

Let me begin by saying that 99% of what Pat Robertson says and does is despicable. I stop short of saying 100% because what remains is that he will emulate Falwell some day and die so there is 1% that he will do of which I approve.

The comments attributable to Robertson and his ilk, some of which are reproduced by Patel are hate-mongering at its worst and reflect the basest exploitation of the emotions of the ignorant. He is about as close to evil as one can get.

Okay, that, out of the way, back to Patel. He then goes on to say: "The main issue for Rudy is how to exploit the current fear of Muslims into a winning presidential campaign."

The MAIN ISSUE? Gimme a break.

This is paranoia run rampant. Trust me, the MAIN issue in this Presidential campaign is NOT fear of MUSLIMS. Never has been and never will be the MAIN issue.

I don't dispute that there is a common bond between Robertson and Giuliani but I think it is far more subtle that what Patel says. Right now, Giuliani looks like a possible winner with Romney being the only serious threat in Iowa and NH. The fear of Mormons is probably greater than fear of Muslims in this context. Of course, fear of Mormons is an issue of trust whereas fear of terrorism is a personal safety ... and perhaps secondarily and economic (oil) fear. Robertson is a power broker and Giuliani could be the winner. Sloughing over Giuliani's stand on "values" is a just politics making strange bedfellows -- nice image of two guys worrying about homosexuality, no?

But that was my point ... I am pretty sure that Eboo Patel will condemn terrorism. You, I don't know, but you can state your own position on the subject and how to deal with the fact when people claiming to act in the name of Islam perpetrate these horrible acts.

However, if a non-Muslim condemns Muslims for terrorism, then even a normally soft-spoken Eboo Patel jumps into the fray and bemoans hatred of Muslims and Islamophobia.

All I said is that because a lot of terrorism (some will say all or most) is associated with people who claim to be doing it in the name of Islam, it is perfectly plausible to interpret complaints about Muslim terrorism as being directed to those who misuse Islam. President Bush and many others around the world have made this point.

It is quite normal for ignorant people to make broad and sweeping generalizations. But Eboo Patel and you are doing EXACTLY what you condemn in the others. You are branding everyone who decries Muslim terrorists as being anti-Islam and Islamophobic.

For some reason, Muslims like Eboo Patel cannot seem to draw this distinction.

Let me also say that I cannot see into Giuliani's heart or mind and neither can Eboo Patel. I have no idea what his true feelings are. He may hate all Muslims or perhaps only the ones committing acts of terror.

I hate the ones who commit acts of terror. The rest of the Muslims are fine and I have many, many, Muslim friends whom I see regularly, and some of whom I correspond with 3-4 times a week by email. My college apartment mates were both Muslims and remain close friends. Some of my Muslim friends have stayed at our house - I don't even see the need to make the distinction between their Islam and that of the terrorists.

I can see the difference, why can't Eboo Patel?

i think you missed the point a handle- you're getting distracted

the point is political intentions

so, if hating muslims is not the common denominator uniting these two disparate extremes on the republican spectrum-

what do you suggest it is?

family values?
tax codes?
fiscal responsibility?

my enemy's enemy ismy friend

hillary is the 'enemy' to a republican candidate-

rudy's weakness in his base is the evangelicals
who can give him the evangelical base?
(well, i think pat is too weak at this point, but he still has his supporters)

its strictly a marriage of convenience for both, and they are certainly strange bedfellows- but that's politics

rudy has been a bit of a one trick pony- (can you say 911?) but is leading in the polls- and robertson is hedging his bets with the numbers

really, what other issue do you think it is that nites them philisophically and politically?

if you have another theory, im happy to hear it.

by no means whatsoever is mr patel the onlyone to make this observation

i think its a flash in the pan stunt myself
it will be a long year

I see that parts of my comment got mangled by the WaPo editing function - or perhaps by me, so here is the corrected version:

A Handle:

Mr. Patel

It is a little simplistic to say that hatred of Muslims is the key to the GOP nomination. In fact, it is ludicrous to say so. And surely, hatred of Muslims is not a substitute for being anti-abortion (or pro-life as they call it) or against virtually anything considered liberal or progressive.

Of course, you are correct that fear of terrorism which translates, easily enough to being equated with Islamic extremists (?? are these people really true Muslims?) not just for Republicans, but for all Americans and indeed, most people in the world, is therefore viewed as mostly linked to Muslims - most importantly these are people who declare that they are MUSLIMS without any protest from you, that what they are doing is NOT part of Islam.

One of the problems here is that you and many other so-called "MODERATE" Muslims see this fear of the extremists and terrorists as an attack on Muslims in general.

Therefore, you are not distancing yourself from whatever perversion the extremists have that they call "Islam" a designation you and your fellow Moderates do not challenge. To the contrary, you treat the rest of the world's objections to these people as a lack of understanding of Islam.

In fact, even the Aga Khan lamented in a piece about a year or more ago that Islam is misunderstood in the world and particularly in the West.

It must occur to you that this is counterproductive.

However, I am not sure if this will ever change. So-called MODERATE Muslims actually do not exist in the practical world, since they are afraid to attack the extremists on the basis that what they represent is NOT Islam or at least the Islam that allows a more tolerant approach to other religions. In a strange way, moderate Muslims are as afraid of Islamic terrorists as anyone else.

What else explains their abject failure to draw the not so tough lines between Islam and usurpers of the religion?

Read Tom Friedman's column in today's NYT for a look at another aspect of this issue. King Abdullah visits the Pope in the Vatican, but he can't have the Pope come to Mecca since non-Muslims are banned from there.

If Islam allows an interpretation that God will smite the nonbelievers, then it may be acceptable in a perverse way for an extremist to say that he will do God's work on earth. It is also equally acceptable for another Muslim to say that there is no explicit command for violence and God's work should be left to God in the hereafter.

So what is Islam's teaching - that nonbelievers should be bombed and killed right now, or that their fate should be left to GOD? That is the central point that the extremists have usurped to their exclusive use and no one in the Muslim world speaks out against it except in token form.

Your article equates fear of extremists with fear of Eboo and all the other unimpeachable and "innocent" Muslims. However, even Rudi Giuliani and Pat Robertson would probably say that Eboo Patel is okay.

I think this is more your problem than Rudi's.

Rudi's got plenty of problems including being allied with Pat Robertson, but to suggest that the American election is going to turn on hatred of Muslims is one of the sillier things I've read.

Regards,

Mr. Patel

It is a little simplistic to say that hatred of Muslims is the key to the GOP nomination. In fact, it is ludicrous to say so.

Of course, you are correct that fear of terrorism which translates, easily enough to being equated with Islamic extremists (?? are these people true) not just for Republicans, but for Americans and indeed, most people in the world.

One of the problems here is that you and many other so-called "MODERATE" Muslims see this fear of the extremists and terrorists as equated with an attack on Muslims in general. Therefore, you are not distancing yourself from whatever perversion they have that they call "Islam" a designation you and your fellow Moderates do not challenge.

In fact, even the Aga Khan lamented in a piece about a year or more ago that Islam is misunderstood in the world and particularly in the West.

I am not sure if this will ever change. So-called MODERATE Muslims actually do not exist since they are afraid to attack the extremists on the basis that what they represent is NOT Islam or at least the Islam that allows a more tolerant approach to other religions.

Read Tom Friedman's column in today's NYT for a look at another aspect of this issue. King Abdullah visits the Pope in the Vatican, but he can't have the Pope come to Mecca since non-Muslims are banned from there.

If Islam allows an interpretation that God will smite the nonbelievers, then it may be acceptable in a perverse way for an extremist to say that he will do God's work on earth. It is also equally acceptable for another Muslim to say that there is no explicit command for violence and God's work should be left to God in the hereafter.

Your article equates fear of extremists with fear of Eboo and all the other unimpeachable and "innocent" Muslims. However, even Rudi Giuliani and Pat Robertson would probably say that Eboo Patel is okay.

I think this is more your problem than Rudi's.

Regards,

who cares

Let us not forget that prophet Muhammad liked to have sex with children, married a six year old child Aisha and raped her, then raped the children Rayhana, Juwariya, and Saffiya after killing their husbands, had sex with his child slave maria.

He murdered 800 Jewish males in one night with the help of his fellow thug Muslims. Then he sold their widows and children into slavery. Then he stole their land and other property. he did the same to other Jewish tribes until all Jews were ethnically cleansed from Arabia.

With such a shining example to emulate, is it any wonder that terrorism seems to have become a monopoly of Muslims?

Muslim Brotherhood's motto is telling:

"Allah is our objective. The Prophet is our leader. The Qur'an is our law. Jihad is our way. Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."

Who wrote the lead that links the Wapo Homepage to this one?

ANTI-MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD

Is the Washington Post being intentionally provocative and urging polarization? Or are they incredible naive and gullible- forgetting their own past warnings?:

IN SEARCH OF FRIENDS AMONG FOES

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A12823-2004Sep10?language=printer

"The Brotherhood -- or al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun, as it is known in Arabic -- is a sprawling and secretive society with followers in more than 70 countries. It is dedicated to creating an Islamic civilization that harks back to the caliphates of the 7th and 8th centuries, one that would segregate women from public life and scorn nonbelievers.

In some nations -- Egypt, Algeria, Syria, Sudan -- the Brotherhood has fomented Islamic revolution. In the Palestinian territories, the Brotherhood created the Islamic Resistance Movement, or Hamas, which has become known for its suicide bombings of Israelis. Yet it is also a sophisticated and diverse organization that appeals to many Muslims worldwide and sometimes advocates peaceful persuasion, not violent revolt. Some of its supporters went on to help found al Qaeda, while others launched one of the largest college student groups in the United States.

For decades, the Brotherhood enjoyed the support of the government of Saudi Arabia and its oil billions, which helped the group expand in the United States.

Past and present Muslim Brotherhood supporters make up the U.S. Islamic community's most organized force. They run hundreds of mosques and dozens of businesses engaging in ventures such as real estate development and banking. They also helped set up some of the leading American Islamic organizations that defend the rights of Muslims, promote Muslim civic activism and seek to spread Islam."

And

"The following Letter-to-the-Editor was submitted to the Washington Post by Muslim American Society President Esam Omeish in response to an article which appeared in the newspaper on Saturday, September 11, 2004."

http://www.masnet.org/pressroom_release.asp?id=1664

"The influence of Muslim Brotherhood ideas has been instrumental in defining our understanding of Islam within the American and Western context in order to espouse the values of human dialogue, tolerance and moderation; the genuine love of one’s country and care for its welfare and prosperity; and the fostering of proactive involvement within society, fulfilling one’s responsibility and claiming one’s rights in the greater diversity of our country."

Harold the Skin Head,

Apparently, the desire for white supremacy did not end after WWII.

Make no mistake.
If it's okay to denigrate Muslims, all Muslims in the acrid, horrid way they are blasted above,
it's okay to do the same for Jews.

It's been off limits for some as "political correctness" (only for some) allowed constant hatred hoisted on anything Christian, or Muslim.

Those snotty sneering jerks that have at it daily on chat rooms all over should realize they
open doors that have been closed.

Even as anti-semitism grows in the US and certainly around the world, including Europe.
They might do better to adhere to a little descency. Don't hold your breath.

With this unholy alliance, there is now somthing for everyone to hate about the Rudy campaign. With his comments about Islam not being a religion, but a political organization bent on the destruction of the western world, he shows himself as the hate monger he really is. He said 911 was punishment for gay mairrage, and abortion, and now he endorses a candidate that is pro gay, and pro choice. It would appear that their desire to instigate a religious war trumps all their other differences. They are both too stupid to see that most americans are tired of polititions trying to impose morallity on america. With their alliance, they insure each others irrelevance.

With this unholy alliance, there is now somthing for everyone to hate about the Rudy campaign. With his comments about Islam not being a religion, but a political organization bent on the destruction of the western world, he shows himself as the hate monger he really is. He said 911 was punishment for gay mairrage, and abortion, and now he endorses a candidate that is pro gay, and pro choice. It would appear that their desire to instigate a religious war trumps all their other differences. They are both too stupid to see that most americans are tired of polititions trying to impose morallity on america. With their alliance, they insure each others irrelevance.

Before 9/11 I didn't have any opinion good or bad regarding Islam. However, my opinion of Muslims are that they are very hostile and angry people, driven by their innate hatred and therefore very dangerous. Because they live under such strict religious requirements, there is very few ways for them to vent their frustrations. I'm convinced that in this day and age our two society's can not live together.Christians should live among themselves and so should the Muslims.There are just too many young Muslim men and women that become easily influenced into violence against non Muslims. Muslim suicide bombers acting with the blessing of their own Mothers. This could not happen under any circumstances as a Christian.

Before 9/11 I didn't have any opinion good or bad regarding Islam. However, my opinion of Muslims are that they are very hostile and angry people, driven by their innate hatred and therefore very dangerous. Because they live under such strict religious requirements, there is very few ways for them to vent their frustrations. I'm convinced that in this day and age our two society's can not live together.Christians should live among themselves and so should the Muslims.There are just too many young Muslim men and women that become easily influenced into violence against non Muslims. Muslim suicide bombers acting with the blessing of their own Mothers. This could not happen under any circumstances as a Christian.

Excellent. Very keen observations.

Now, how is this anti-Muslim, or religious skew going to solve the real problems... the massive budget deficit, declining U.S. Dollar, trade deficit, the mortgage mess and the forthcoming recession......God knows, be it Allah, the Christian God or the Jewish, Hindu, Shinto....God.

Even if USA kills off 1 billion Muslims, it will still have the above-listed problems.

Typo FROM PREVIOUS COMMENT!!!: "The fools that will come AFTER them."

AS WE CAN SEE FROM THE QURAN, WHAT RUDY AND OTHER FOOLS ARE DOING HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE BY THE FOOLS BEFORE THEM AND THOSE FOOLS WHO WILL COME BEFORE THEM.
ALLAH SAYS: 006.123
Thus have We placed leaders in every town, its wicked men, to plot (and burrow) therein: but they only plot against their own souls, and they perceive it not.

006.005:
And now they reject the truth when it reaches them: but soon shall they learn the reality of what they used to mock at.

Alex

What planet are you on? Have you been here the last 10 years?

Apperas to me, every single jewish was waiting for this article so they can post their hate ... this time not against the Christian but against the Muslim, which is their half-Brother.
Ps: the last time I heard that we hate Muslim because Farrakan was collecting lost kids from the street to try to make them turn into the right direction. Time has chenged, I guess but not the cancer which is the religious hate.

You're damn right they're anti-Muslim Brotherhood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_brotherhood

This is incredible. Where is the Democracy in this? What about the constitutional rights of freedom of religion? Should not this be against the laws of this country? If politicians are allowed to break the law to win elections, where are we heading to as a society and as a country?

I have met Peter King in a mosque in Long Island on september 12th 1999. He was promoting a book authored by him - "terrible beauty". He signed the book " To, Saeed Patel, with many thanks and appreciation - all the best, Peter King"

The above article quotes him as saying..." Peter King once said that Muslims in America are “an enemy living amongst us"

I am confused. If he hates muslims so much why did he come to the mosque. Just to sell his books?

This can not be happening in this country.

Many thanks for reading.

Saeed patel

This is incredible. Where is the Democracy in this? What about the constitutional rights of freedom of religion? Should not this be against the laws of this country? If politicians are allowed to break the law to win elections, where are we heading to as a society and as a country?

I have met Peter King in a mosque in Long Island on september 12th 1999. He was promoting a book authored by him - "terrible beauty". He signed the book " To, Saeed Patel, with many thanks and appreciation - all the best, Peter King"

The above article quotes him as saying..." Peter King once said that Muslims in America are “an enemy living amongst us"

I am confused. If he hates muslims so much why did he come to the mosque. Just to sell his books?

This can not be happening in this country.

Many thanks for reading.

Saeed patel

Dear Muslim,

Your silence tells the truth. You know the answers to those question so you can either lie about them or tell us the the truth. I give you credit for not lying about them at this time but I think you all need to come clean about the objectives of your religion and that is the subjection of the whole world to Isalm by all means necessary. I see you have chosen a third option and that is to not answer so you can obscure the truth about the objective of the Islamic world.

Eboo- Please take note. When your commentaries drip with fear and hatred. You attract narrow-minded bigots and create divisions. Is this your goal?

Dear Muslim,

Please answer the following questions. No one seems to want to address them.

1. Does the Qur'an and trusted hadith teach its adherents that Islam will subjugate the world?

2. Does the Qur'an teach that Christians who believe in the Trinity are idolaters in Qur'an 9?

3. What does Qur'an 9 teach the Muslim to do to all unbelieving Christians and Jews?

4. Why does the Qur'an instruct Muslims to make no friends of Christians and Jews?

5. Why did Muhammad say, "I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13)?

If all you can do is call me a hater or an Islamaphobe you have dodged the issues at hand. That kind of response shows me and all the other posters who have these same questions that you have no answers.

And the jews never use their own names...it's always something that tries to disguise who they are...
And lately they all write they're posting from France...

Thank you Mr. Patel...
Brave you are, because you must've known very well that these posts "ON FAITH" are absolutely dominated by Jews, every day, and usualy the nastiest of them.

The Evangelical rhetoric is often
disgusting on the subject, but most of the worst stuff I see comes from
stated pro Israeli sources.

These's a BIG PUSH...an almost panicy determination to get some very pro Israel and preferably zionist into the White House. You saw it in the shennigans by AIPAC and such as Specter-Lieberman-Feinstein- SCUMER , et. al. to get the Mukasey into Justice...and now the
nasty little Bloomberg is trying to get around
election laws to buy the election at the last moment.

It'll get rough, but please keep on writing. Americans aren't stupid, are catching on....

Thank you Mr. Patel...
Brave you are, because you must've known very well that these posts "ON FAITH" are absolutely dominated by Jews, every day, and usualy the nastiest of them.

The Evangelical rhetoric is often
disgusting on the subject, but most of the worst stuff I see comes from
stated pro Israeli sources.

These's a BIG PUSH...an almost panicy determination to get some very pro Israel and preferably zionist into the White House. You saw it in the shennigans by AIPAC and such as Specter-Lieberman-Feinstein- SCUMER , et. al. to get the Mukasey into Justice...and now the
nasty little Bloomberg is trying to get around
election laws to buy the election at the last moment.

It'll get rough, but please keep on writing. Americans aren't stupid, are catching on....

The Muslim faith is straight from Hell.

Abdeel writes that Middle Eastern Christians are living happily in the Middle East. Twaddle. The native Christian population has been in sharp decline as it has fled those countries under increasing pressure from radicalizing Islam.

Since the Muslim conquests, the once majority Christian population in the region has fallen to a small minority. Mohammed declared that conquered people of the book were to be humiliated, their subservient position rubbed into the faces, almost literally. When they paid the jiza tribute tax, they were to be grasped by the beard and struck in the face in a form of ritual humiliation. The so-called Muslim tolerance was in reality a third rate existence in which a Christian or Jew could not even testify against a Muslim in court. The public demonstration of their religion was forbidden. Even today, for example, in Egypt which has six to ten million Coptic Christians, the Copts find it nearly impossible to built or repair churches because the law says the local Muslim-dominated governmens must approve them, which almost never happens.

In counterpoint to the last example, Pope John Paul I, in an act of misguided tolerance, gave his nod to the building, with Saudi money, of the largest mosque in the world in Rome. Did he not hear the gage of challenge being thrown on the tomb of St. Peter himself? Where is the Christian cathedral in Mecca? Don't hold your breathe.

Many Middle Eastern Christians, unable to bear relentless humiliation and abuse, converted. Many others fled. Most of Syria, Palestine, and Egypt were still majority Christian at the time of the Crusades which is some justification for the Christian attempt to redeem those areas. Today in Iraq the Islamists have made a special target of native Christians.

The greatest single atrocity in the region was the holocaust of Anatolian Christians between 1915 and 1923. Before WWI the Ottoman censes counted 5.5 millin Christians. The Westerners who ran the census for the Ottomans said the Turks undercounted the Christians and overcounted the Turks. There may have been as many as seven million Christians. They were Greeks, Armenians, and Assyriacs - Aramaic-speaking Arab Christians. There are only about 200,000 Christians in those areas today. What happened to them?

It is an internationally verified fact that 1.3 million Greeks were expelled in 1923. Everyone has heard about the Turkish and Kurdish massacre of 1.5 million Armenians. That accounts for 2.8 million out of seven million. The rest were either massacred, forced to convert, or sold into slavery as children - about 5.5 million Christians. This included probably three quarters of a million to a million Assyriacs. The rest were Greeks. This latter figure means that as much as half of all living Greek people were massacred or forced to convert on pain of death by Muslims. The slaughter of the Greeks alone exceeded the Tutsi massacre in Rawanda and the Cambodian massacres by the Kmer Rouge by a factor of four. This overall figure of 5.5 million rivals the Jewish holocaust and was the act that gave rise to Hitler's famous retort, "Who remembers the Armenians?" when told the world would never let him exterminate the Jews.

CT,

As you well know I am not anti-Jewish; I am anti-Zionist.

If the Arab Lobby is stronger than the Jewish Lobby, it has a funny way of showing it.

Until we develop a fair and balanced policy with respect to Palestine, develop energy independence, and free ourselves from the influence of the Jewish lobby, the likelihood of starting WWIII will only increase.

Eboo patel seems very ignorant about the danger of islam for today's world.He is a good person but does not know Islam at all. He is worried about homosexuals who are not at all dangererous to our civilization but islam is. Eboo patel should read the gist of Koran below f0or his education.

Quran’s Teachings:
(Compiled by: Dr. Ali Sina: 2001)

What is the inspiration behind the hate and violence in Islamic terrorism?

The following is the essence of the message of the Quran, the rest are fairy tales and stories by some hypocritical Muslims.
Quran Surah 2: The Cow
1. Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 6
2. Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 10
3. A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 24
4. Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 39, 90
5. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 104
6. For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 114
7. Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 126
8. The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 162
9. They will not emerge from the Fire. 167
10. Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 174
11. How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 175
12. Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 191
13. War is ordained by Allah. 216
14. Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 217
15. Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 257
16. Allah does not guide disbelievers. 264
17. "Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 286

Quran Surah 3: The Family Of 'Imran
1. Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 4
2. Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 10
3. Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 12
4. Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 21
5. Theirs will be a painful doom. 77
6. All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 85
7. Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 91
8. Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 105-6
9. Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 116
10. The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 131
11. We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 151
12. Theirs will be an awful doom. 176
13. Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 177
14. Disbelievers will have a shamful doom. 178
15. Disbelievers will go to Hell. 196

Quran Surah 4: Women
1. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 14
2. For the disbelievers, We have prepared a painful doom. 18
3. For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 37
4. Hell is sufficient for their burning. 55
5. Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 56
6. Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 74
7. Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 76
8. Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 89
9. If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 91 ( Offering peace in Islam means surrendering. All 67 out of 68 wars of Muhammad were offensive, not defensive. The one defensive war, 'ditch' was not fought. That is why the Islamic terrorism 'jihad' will continue until the West "offers peace". This was made clear by Bin Laden.)
10. Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 115
11. Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 137
12. For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 138
13. Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 140
14. The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 145
15. You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 150-151
16. For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 161
17. God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 168-169

Quran Surah 5: The Table Spread
1. Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5
2. Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 10
3. Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 33 (Anyone who resist Islam is deemed to be making war with Allah)
4. Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 36
5. Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 37
6. Life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, and tooth for tooth. Non-muslims are wrong doers. 45
7. Christians will be burned in the Fire. 72
8. Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 73
9. Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 86

Quran Surah 6: The Cattle
1. Many generations have been destroyed by Allah. 6
2. Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 49
3. Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 70
4. When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 93
5. Allah chooses to lead some astray, and he lays ignominy on those who disbelieve. 125
6. Allah will send everyone the Fire, except those he chooses to deliver. 128

Quran Surah 7: The Heights
1. How many a township have We destroyed! As a raid by night, or while they slept at noon, Our terror came unto them. 4-5
2. Allah has made devils the protecting friends of disbeliveers. 27
3. Disbelievers choose devils as protecting friends and believe they are rightly guided. 30
4. Only believers go to heaven. 32
5. Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 36
6. Entire nations have entered the Fire. Some get a double torment. 38
7. Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 40-41
8. Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: "Pour water on us." But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 50
9. Those who deny Muhammad's revelation are evil. 177

Quran Surah 8: The Spoils of War
1. Allah will throw fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, and smite their necks and fingers. 12
2. Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 14
3. When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 15-16
4. Taste of the doom because ye disbelieve. 35
5. Those who disbelieve will be gathered into hell. 36
6. The angels smite the face and backs of disbelievers, saying: "Taste the punishment of burning!" 50
7. The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. 55
8. Exhort the believers to fight. They will win easily, because disbelievers are without intelligence. 65
9. A prophet may not take captives until he has made a slaughter in the land. 67

Surah 9: Repentance
1. Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 3
2. Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 5
3. Don't let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 17
4. Give tiding of a painful doom to Christians and Jews. 34
5. If you refuse to fight, Allah will afflict you with a painful doom. 39
6. Disbelievers go to hell. 49
7. Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 60
8. Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 63
9. Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 68
10. Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 73
11. Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 74
12. For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 90
13. Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 113
14. Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 123

Quran Surah 10: Jonah
1. Disbelievers will have a boiling drink and a painful doom. 4
2. Those who neglect Allah's revelations will make their home in the Fire. 7-8
3. Allah has destoyed entire generations. 13
4. Those who disbelieved will face a dreadful doom. 70
5. Allah drowned those who disbelieved his revelations. 73
6. Moses asked Allah to harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they would not believe until they saw the painful doom. 88

Quran Surah 11: Hud
1. Disbelievers wil1 end up in the Fire. 17
2. Those who oppose Islam and disbelieve in the Hereafter are guilty of the greatest wrong. 18-19
3. Those in the Fire will suffer as long as the heavens and earth endure. 106-7
4. Allah will fill hell with humans and jinn. 119

Quran Surah 13: The Thunder
1. Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire 5
2. Allah does not hear the prayer of disbelievers. 14
3. Those who do not answer Allah's call will go to hell. 18
4. Disbelievers will be tormented in this life, and suffer even more pain in the Hereafter. 33-34
5. The reward for disbelievers is the Fire. 35

Quran Surah 14: Abraham
1. Woe unto the disbelievers. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2
2. Allah sends some people astray. 4
3. Those who are in hell will be forced to drink festering water which they can hardly swallow. They will want to die, but they will not be able to. Theirs is a harsh doom. 16-17
4. Allah sends wrong-doers astray. He does whatever he likes. 27
5. Those in hell will be chained together. Their clothing will be made of pitch and fire will cover their faces. 49-50

Quran Surah 15: The Rock
1. Let the disbelievers enjoy life and let false hope beguile them. They will come to know! 2-3
2. Iblis will lead humans astray. Only perfect Muslims will be safe from him. The rest will go to hell. 39-43
3. Allah's doom is a dolorous doom. 50

Quran Surah 16: The Bee
1. Allah could have led everyone to the truth, but he chose not to. 9
2. Those who don't believe in the Hearafter are proud. 22
3. Disbelievers are evil and will dwell in hell forever. 27-29
4. Disbelievers are liars. 39
5. Allah will add doom to doom for those who disbelieve. 88
6. Those who oppose Islam will face an awful doom. 94

Quran Surah 17: The Children of Israel
1. Allah made hell to be a dungeon for disbelievers. 8
2. Allah has prepared a painful doom for those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 10
3. Allah destroyed entire towns. 16
4. How many generations Allah has destroyed since Noah! 17
5. Allah intends to burn people in hell. 18
6. Allah makes it so that unbelievers cannot understand. 45-46
7. Allah will destroy every town before the Day of Resurrection. 58
8. Allah will send disbelievers astray. Then he'll burn them in hell, increasing the flames from time to time. 97-98

Quran Surah 18: The Cave
1. Allah has prepared a Fire for the disbelievers. When they want a shower, Allah will give them a shower of molten lead to burn their faces. 29
2. Those who are condemned to the Fire know they will have no way to escape. 53
3. The worst wrong is to forget Allah's revelations. Allah covers their hearts and makes them deaf so that they will never believe the truth. 57
4. There is an appointed time in which the doomed will find no escape. 58
5. Allah has destroyed many towns. 59
6. On a certain day, Allah will present hell, in plain view, to the disbelievers. 100
7. Allah will welcome the disbelievers into hell. 102
8. Hell is the reward for disbelievers because they made a jest of Allah's revelations and messengers. 106

Quran Surah 19: Mary
1. Allah will pluck out from every sect those who should burn in hell. 69-70
2. Allah will record what disbelievers say and then prolong their torment. 77-79
3. Allah has sent the devils on the disbelievers to confuse them. 83
4. Allah has destroyed many generations. 98

Quran Surah 20: Ta Ha
1. Those who do not believe Allah's revelations will face doom in the Hereafter. 127
2. Allah has destroyed many generations. 128

Quran Surah 21: The Prophets
1. Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 6
2. The people cried out for mercy, but Allah killed them anyway. 15
3. Disbelievers will not be able to put out the fire on their faces and backs. They will be stupefied and no one will help them. 39-40
4. Allah gave judgment and knowledge to Lot . He was a righteous man. (Genesis 19:7-38) 75
5. Every person alive at the time of the flood was evil. So Allah drowned them all. 77
6. The disbelievers will stare in terror at what Allah has in store for them. 97-99

Surah 22: The Pilgrimage
1. The devil will guide some to the punishment of the Flame. 3-4
2. Those who turn from the way of Allah will face ignominy in this world and burning in the next. 9
3. Whoever thinks that Allah will not give Muhammad victory should go hang himself. 15
4. Disbelievers will wear garments of fire, boiling fluid will be poured on their heads, their bellies and skin will be melted, they will be tormented with iron hooks, and when they try to escape they will be driven back with the taunt: Taste the doom of burning. 19-22
5. Allah will provide the disbelievers with a painful doom. 25
6. How many towns Allah has destroyed! 45
7. Those who disregard Allah's revelations are the owners of the Fire. 51
8. Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will have a shameful doom. 57
9. Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will burn in the Fire. 72

Quran Surah 23: The Believers
1. Allah told Noah not to bother pleading for the people he was about to drown. 27
2. Those who don't believe in the Hereafter will receive extreme punishment from Allah. 74-77
3. When fire burns their faces, they will be glum. 104
4. Disbelievers will not be successful. 117

Surah 24: The Light
1. Scourge adulterers and adulteresses with 100 stripes. Do not show them any pity. Have a party of believers watch the punishment. 2
2. Only adulterers can marry adulteresses. Believers are not to marry them. 3
3. Vile women are for vile men, and vile men for vile women. 26
4. Believing women must lower their gaze and be modest, cover themselves with veils, and not reveal themselves except to their husbands, relatives, children, and slaves. 31
5. Disbelievers are miscreants. 55
6. Disbelievers will never escape the Fire that will be their home. 57
7. It's okay for believers to own slaves. 58
8. The only true believers are those who believe in Allah and his messenger. 62

Quran Surah 25: The Criterion
1. Those who deny the coming of the Hour will be chained together and burned with fire. They will pray for their own destruction. 11-13
2. Allah will force the evil-doers to taste great torment. 19
3. It will be a hard day for disbelievers and wrong-doers. They will gnaw on their hands and wish they had chosen Islam. 26-27
4. Those who deny Muhammad's revelations will be destroyed. 36
5. Allah drowned everyone in the flood of Noah, and has prepared a painful doom for evil-doers. 37

Quran Surah 26: The Poets
1. Allah destroyed the people in Lot 's town with a dreadful rain. 172-3
2. Many will not believe until they see the painful doom. 201
3. Those who believe in another god are doomed. 213

Quran Surah 27: The Ant
1. Allah leads those who do not believe in the Hereafter astray by making things work out OK in this life, so that he can torment them forever in the next. They will get the worst punishment and will be the greatest losers. 4-5
2. "Allah destroyed them and their people, every one." 51
3. But he "saved those who believed." 53
4. Allah sent a dreadful rain on "those who stayed behind." 58
5. Whoever does something wrong will be thrown into the Fire. 90

Quran Surah 28: The Narrative
1. Allah has completely destroyed many communities. 58
2. Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying: Where are My partners whom ye imagined? 62-64
3. Allah caused the earth to swallow Korah. 79-81
4. Never help disbelievers. 86 (Can Muslims in countries ruled in by non-Muslims be loyal to their country?)

Quran Surah 29: The Spider
1. Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah have no hope of mercy. For such there is a painful doom. 23
2. Only wrong-doers deny the revelations of Allah. 49
3. Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah are the losers. 52
4. The doom of hell will come upon disbelievers suddenly, when they least expect it. 53-55

Quran Surah 30: The Romans
1. Allah will tear Christians apart for ascribing partners to him. 13-14
2. Disbelievers will be brought to doom. 16
3. It's OK to own slaves. 28
4. Allah does not love disbelievers. 45
5. Allah seals the heart of disbelievers. (And then he burns them in the Fire.) 59

Quran Surah 31: Luqman
1. Those who mislead others from Allah's way and mock Islam will have a painful doom. 6-7
2. Allah will give disbelievers a little comfort for a little while, and then he'll torment them forever with a heavy doom. 23-24

Quran Surah 32: The Prostration
1. Allah will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together. 13
2. Allah: Taste the doom of immortality because of what ye used to do. 14
3. Those who used to deny the Fire will be tormented in it forever. 20
4. The worst thing you can do is to deny the revelations of Allah. 22

Quran Surah 33: The Clans
1. Don't obey disbelievers. 1 (Can Muslims in countries ruled in by non-Muslims be loyal to their country?)
2. Allah makes the deeds of unbelievers fruitless. 19
3. Allah cast panic into the hearts of the disbelievers. He killed some, and enslaved others. 25-26
4. Allah gave Zeyd’s wife, his own daughter in law to Muhammad in marriage. This was so that all Muslims would know that it's OK to marry your adopted son's ex-wife. 37
5. Ignore disbelievers and their poisonous talk. 48
6. It's OK to own slaves. 50
7. Allah says it is lawful for Muhammad to marry any women he wants. 50-51
8. It's OK to own slaves. 55
9. Those who malign Allah, Muhammad, and Muslims will be cursed by Allah in this life and with doom in the Hereafter. 57
10. Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 60-61
11. Allah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming fire, wherein they will abide forever. 64-65
12. The disbelievers will be burned in the Fire with a double torment. 66-68

Quran Surah 34: Saba
1. Those who challenge the revelations of Muhammad will have a painful doom. 5
2. Those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will be tormented. 8
3. But some of the jinn Allah burned with flaming Fire. 12
4. Those who strive against Allah's revelations will be brought to the doom. 38
5. Those who worshipped the jinn will taste the doom of the Fire. 41
6. Allah hates those who ignore his messengers. 45
7. Those who are cast into hell be terrified when they see that they have no escape. Then they will believe. But it will be too late. 51-52

Quran Surah 35: The Angels
1. Those who disbelieve will have an awful doom. 7
2. Allah sends whoever he wants astray. 8
3. Allah hates disbelievers. 26
4. Disbelievers will burn forever in the fire of hell. Allah will keep them alive so that he can torture them forever. When they repent and ask for mercy, he will ignore them. 36-7
5. He who disbelieves, his disbelief will be on his own head. 39
6. Allah has blinded the disbelievers so that they cannot see the truth. So it don't bother warning them.
7.

Quran Surah 36: Ya Sin
8. They will go to hell anyway. 8-10
9. Allah has destroyed many entire generations. 31
10. If Allah feels like it, he will drown everyone. 43
11. Allah will burn the disbelievers in hell. 63-4

Quran Surah 37: Those Who Set The Ranks
1. Those who refuse to believe in Muhammad's revelations will face a painful doom. 31-38
2. Those in hell must eat from a tree with the heads of devils, and then drink boiling water. After that they return to hell. 62-68
3. Allah drowned everyone except Noah and his family in the flood. 82
4. Allah tells Abraham in a dream to sacrifice his son. (But is the son Ishmael or Isaac?) 102
5. Allah killed everyone in Sodom except for Lot and his family. 136
6. No one is against Allah, except those who burn in hell. 162-3
Quran Surah 38: Sad
1. Allah has destroyed many generations. 3
2. Those who doubt will soon taste Allah's doom. 8
3. Those who deny the messengers deserve doom. 14
4. Those who wander from the way of Allah will have an awful doom. 26
5. Those who disbelieve will burn in the Fire. 27
6. The transgressors will roast in the Fire and be forced to drink boiling liquids followed by ice cold drinks. 55-9
7. Iblis asks Allah to let him hang around and mislead humans. Allah allows him to do so, and Iblis leads all humans to hell except for the single-minded slaves. Allah agrees, and plans to fill hell with Iblis and his followers. 79-85

Quran Surah 39: The Troops
1. Tell the disbelievers to enjoy themselves now, because later they will be owners of the Fire. 8
2. The losers will be those who lose themselves and their families on the Day of Resurrection. They will be surrounded by fire. 15-16
3. No one will be able to help those that Allah torments in the Fire. 19
4. Woe unto those who forget Allah. They are in plain error. 22
5. Allah sends some people astray. For them there is no guide. 23
6. The worst thing you can do is tell a lie against Allah. The home of disbelievers is hell. 32
7. Allah sends some people astray. For them there is no guide. 36
8. Surrender to Allah before he sends the doom upon you suddenly. 54-55
9. Those who lie about Allah will be sent to hell and will have their faces blackened. 60
10. Losers are those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah. 63
11. Those ascribe a partner to Allah (like the Christians) will be among the losers. 65
12. Those who disbelieve will be driven into hell. 71-72

Quran Surah 40: The Believer
1. Allah sent an awful punishment at the time of Noah. 5
2. Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 6
3. Allah greatly abhors those who disbelieve. 10
4. When the doom comes, the hearts of the doomed will choke in their throats, and no one will help them. 18
5. Those who ignore Allah's "clear proofs" will be seized and punished severely. 22
6. Those that Allah sends astray will have no helper or guide. 33
7. Allah deceives those who doubt. 34
8. The prodigals will be owners of the Fire. 43
9. The doomed will be exposed to the Fire morning and evening. 46
10. Those in hell will beg to be relieved from the Fire's torment for just a day. But the prayer of a disbeliever is in vain. 49-50
11. Those who bicker about Allah's revelations are filled with pride. 56
12. Those who scorn Allah will go to hell. 60
13. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are perverted. 63
14. Those who deny the Scripture and Allah's messengers will be dragged through boiling water and thrust into the Fire. 70-72
15. Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my partners that you used to believe in? 73
16. Thus does Allah send astray the disbelievers (in his guidance). 74
17. Those who scorn will go to hell. 76
18. When they see Allah's doom they will believe in Allah. But their faith will not save them. The disbelievers will be ruined. 84-85

Quran Surah 41: Fusilat
1. Woe unto the idolaters who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 6
2. Allah will make life miserable for those who deny his revelations and then he will torment them forever in the Hereafter. And they will not be helped. 15-16
3. The enemies of Allah will be gathered into the Fire where their skin, ears, and eyes will testify against them. 19-20
4. Allah will make those who disbelieve taste an awful doom. Their immortal home will be the Fire, since they denied Allah's revelations. 27-28
5. Those who disbelieve will taste hard punishment. 50

Quran Surah 42: The Counsel
1. While some lounge in the Garden, others will roast in the Flame. 7
2. Those who argue about Allah will have his wrath upon them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 16
3. Allah sometimes kills people for misbehaving. 34
4. Allah sends some people astray and then punishes them for it by burning them in the Fire. 44-46
5. Allah makes some people barren. (Whenever he feels like it.) 50

Quran Surah 43: Ornaments of God
1. When the Egyptians angered Allah, he drowned them all. 55
2. Those who argue and do wrong will have a painful doom that will come upon them suddenly. 65-66
3. The guilty are tormented forever in hell. Allah will not relax their punishment. 74-75

Quran Surah 44: Smoke
1. Those in torment will claim to believe and ask Allah for relief. But he will refuse since they will return to their disbelief. 11-16
2. Those in hell must eat from a tree like molten brass that burns their bellies. Then boiling water will be poured on their heads. 43-48

Quran Surah 45: Crouching
1. Those who hear and reject Allah's revelations are sinful liars. Give them tidings of a painful doom. 7-8
2. Those who joke about Allah's revelations will go to hell. Theirs will be an awful doom. 9-10
3. Those who disbelieve in Allah's revelations will have a painful doom of wrath. 11
4. Allah sends some people astray, making it impossible for them to hear or see. 23
5. Those who disbelieve are guilty folk. 31

Quran Surah 46: The Wind-Curved Sandals
1. Disbelievers will be rewarded with the ignominious doom of the Fire. 20
2. The guilty will face a wind with a painful torment. 25
3. Allah has destroyed entire towns. 27
4. Allah will taunt the disbelievers that he torments in the fire, saying: "Taste the doom for that ye disbelieved." 34

Quran Surah 47: Muhammad
1. Allah makes the works of disbelievers vain. 1
2. Those who disbelieve follow falsehood. 3
3. Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded. 4
4. Allah will damn the disbelievers and make all their actions fruitless. 8-9
5. Disbelievers may eat and be happy now, but the Fire will be their final home. 12
6. Those in the Garden will drink delicious wine, while those in the Fire will drink boiling water that will tear apart their intestines. 15
7. Allah curses people by making them deaf and blind. 23
8. Angels will gather them together and smite their faces and backs. 27
9. Allah will make the actions those who disbelieve fruitless. 32
10. Those who disbelieve will never be pardoned by Allah. 34-35

Quran Surah 48: Victory
1. Those who think an evil thought concerning Allah will be cursed and sent to hell by him. 6
2. Allah has prepared a flame for the disbelievers. 13
3. If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom. 16-17
4. But if you're willing to fight for Allah, he will provide you with lots of booty. 19-20
5. Allah punished those who disbelieved with a painful punishment. 25
6. Those with Muhammad are ruthless toward disbelievers and merciful toward themselves. 29

Quran Surah 49: The Private Apartments
1. Do not lift your voice when in Muhammad's presence. Those who subdue their voices are righteous and will receive an immense reward from Allah. 1-3

Quran Surah 50: Oaf
1. Allah has destroyed many entire generations. 36

Quran Surah 51: The Winnowing Winds
1. Accursed are the conjecturers who ask: When is the Day of Judgment? It is the day they will be tormented by the Fire. 10-14
2. Woe to the disbelievers. 60

Quran Surah 52: The Mount
1. Those who deny the existence of hell will be thrust into its Fire. 11-16
2. Those who disbelieve are trapped. 42

Quran Surah 54: The Moon
1. Allah sent a storm of stones on Lot's folk, killing all but Lot 's family. 34
2. The suffering in hell will be more wretched and bitter than anything experienced on earth. 46-48
3. Allah destroyed many people, but does anyone remember anymore? 51

Quran Surah 55: The Beneficent
1. The guilty deny hell. But after they die they go circling between it and fierce, boiling water. 43-44

Quran Surah 56: The Event
1. But those on his left hand will face scorching wind, scalding water, and black smoke. 42-43
2. Those who deny Allah and the Hereafter will eat from the Zaqqum tree and drink boiling water. 51-54
3. Allah will welcome the rejecters and erring with boiling water and a roasting in the hell fire. 92-94

Quran Surah 57: Iron
1. The home of disbelievers is the Fire, a hapless journey's end. 15
2. Those who disbelieve and deny Allah's revelations are the owners of the fire. 19

Quran Surah 58: She That Disputeth
1. For disbelievers is a painful doom. 4
2. For disbelievers is a shameful doom. 5
3. Don't make friends with Allah's enemies. For those who do so, Allah has prepared a dreadful doom. 14-15
4. Those who turn others away from the way of Allah will have a shameful doom. They are rightful owners of the Fire. 16-17
5. Those who oppose Allah and His Messenger will be among the lowest. 20
6. On the Last Day good Muslims will not love their non-Muslim friends and family members, not even their fathers, sons, or brothers (or their mothers, daughters, or sisters). 22

Quran Surah 59: Exile
1. Allah cast fear into the hearts of the disbelieving People of the Scripture. Their home in the Hereafter will be the Fire. 2-3
2. The disbelieving people of the Scripture are liars. 11
3. The devil and disbelievers will be in the Fire. 16-17
4. The owners of the Garden and the owners of the Fire are not equal. 20

Quran Surah 60: She That is to be Examined
1. Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 1
2. Don't be friends with those who have warred against you because of religion. Whoever makes friends with them is a wrong-doer. 9
3. Don't be friends with those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. They are Allah's enemies. 13

Quran Surah 61: The Ranks
1. Allah loves those who fight for him. 4
2. Allah leads some people astray. 5
3. The worst thing you can do is tell a lie about Allah. 7

Quran Surah 62: The Congregation
1. A hypocritical Jew looks like an ass carrying books. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are ugly. 5

Quran Surah 63: The Hypocrites
1. Allah seals the hearts of those who believe and then disbelieve so that they can understand nothing. 3
2. Disbelievers are perverted. They are the enemy, confounded by Allah. 4
3. Don't bother to ask Allah to forgive the disbelievers. He will never forgive them. 6

Quran Surah 64: Mutual Disillusion
1. Those who disbelieve will have a painful doom. 5
2. Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 10

Quran Surah 66: Banning
1. Muhammad's wives need to be careful. If they criticize their husband, Allah will replace them with better ones. 5
2. The fuel of the Fire is men and stones. 6
3. Be stern with disbelievers. They are going to Hell anyway. 9
4. The wives of Noah and Lot (who were both righteous) betrayed their husbands and are now in the Fire. 10
Quran Surah67: The Sovereignty
1. Disbelievers will go to hell where they will hear its roaring and boiling. 6-7
2. Who will protect the disbelievers from a painful doom? (Nobody) 28

Quran Surah 69: The Reality
1. Those who do not believe in Allah will be chained up and cast into hell-fire where they will eat filth. 30-35

Quran Surah 71: Noah
1. Those that Allah drowned in Noah's flood were then tortured forever in the Fire. 25
2. Noah asked Allah to drown all the disbelievers. 26

Quran Surah 72: The Jinn
1. The fires of hell will be fueled with the bodies of idolators and unbelievers. They will experience an ever-greater torment. 15-17
2. Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will dwell forever in the fire of hell. 23

Quran Surah 73: The Enshrouded One
1. Allah will take care of the deniers. He will tie them up, burn them in a raging fire, and feed them food that chokes them. 11-13

Quran Surah 74: The Cloaked One
1. The last day will be a day of anguish for disbelievers. 9-10
2. Those who are stubborn to Allah's revelations will face a fearful doom. 16-17
3. The fire of hell shrivels humans and spares nothing. 27-29
4. Allah has appointed angels to tend the Fire and has prepared stumbling blocks for those who disbelieve. He sends some people (whoever he wants) astray. 31
5. Allah is the font of fear. 56

Quran Surah 76: "Time" or "Man"
1. Allah has prepared chains, manacles, and a raging fire for the disbelievers. 4
2. Don't obey disbelievers. 24

Quran Surah 77: The Emissaries
1. Allah destroyed "the former folk." 16
2. Woe unto the repudiators on that day! 19, 24, 28, 34, 40, 45, 49

Quran Surah 79: "Those Who Drag Forth"
Those who rebel will go to hell. 37-39

Quran Surah 80: "He Frowned"
1. Disbelievers are wicked people. On the last day they will be in darkness and have dust on their faces. 40-42

Quran Surah 82: The Cleaving
1. The wicked will burn in hell forever. 82

Quran Surah 84: The Sundering
1. Some folks will be thrown into a scorching fire. 11-12
2. Disbelievers will be given a painful doom. 22-24

Quran Surah 87: The Most High
1. Those who are flung into the great Fire will neither live nor die. 12-13

Quran Surah 88: The Overwhelming
1. On that day many will be sad and weary. Scorched by the fire, drinking boiling water, with only bitter thorn-fruit to eat. 2-7
2. Allah will punish disbelievers with the direst punishment. 23-24

Quran Surah 89: The Dawn
1. Allah poured on them the disaster of His punishment. 13

Quran Surah 90: The City
1. Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will have the Fire placed over them like an awning. 19-20

Quran Surah92: The Night
1. Those who deny Allah's revelations must endure the flaming fire. 14-16

"Lets find a Muslim Willie Horton" you ask?? Why, that's easy; just walk up to someone in the 1.5 billion or so horde of them and pick one. Most are mind-numbed robots who blindly follow their local cleric or the most recent "fatwa" that calls for Holy Jihad against the Western evil-doers. Why not pick one from one of the Saudi-funded Madrassas here in the U.S.? The Muslim world and culture is pathetic. They are literally out of the 7th century. Funny thing, Eboo, if they got power here, they'd go after you too as being a liberal!!

Wake up, silly people.

Can the Post ever give the microphone to someone who is not a strident liberal partisan?

Why is the Post so afraid of giving anyone other than hardcore liberal partisans the opportunity to speak?

Dear Muslim,

Please answer the following questions. No one seems to want to address them.

1. Does the Qur'an and trusted hadith teach its adherents that Islam will subjugate the world?

2. Does the Qur'an teach that Christians who believe in the Trinity are idolaters in Qur'an 9?

3. What does Qur'an 9 teach the Muslim to do to all unbelieving Christians and Jews?

4. Why does the Qur'an instruct Muslims to make no friends of Christians and Jews?

5. Why did Muhammad say, "I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13)?

If all you can do is call me a hater or an Islamaphobe you have dodged the issues at hand. That kind of response shows me and all the other posters who have these same questions that you have no answers.

Rick,

The Arab lobby in Washington is even stronger than the Jewish lobby.

And your anti-Jewish dialogue continues to exude in all your commentary.

Nice post at 1:33 pm by Tsouras uncovering social and economic truths of the caliphates. Of course these are ignored in the aggrandizing texts of Muslim scholars.

Nice post at 1:33 pm by Tsouras uncovering social and economic truths of the caliphates. Of course these are ignored in the aggrandizing texts of Muslim scholars.

Nice post at 1:33 pm by Tsouras uncovering social and economic truths of the caliphates. Of course these are ignored in the aggrandizing texts of Muslim scholars.

Well first of all, Muslims have a huge trust problem when their holy book's stated goal is to convert or subjugate and kill infidels. Second, their track record in denouncing their extremists' terrorism hasn't been stellar.

On the other hand, the writer has a crystal ball.
As Lee Atwater used "Willie Horton" and his disciple Karl Rove and Cheney used "the war on terror" and the swift-boaters for their politics of hatred and fear, we can be sure that the Republicans will use the Muslims to do the same to Hillary (hating gays is so yesterday now we have Muslims to use). It will be interesting to see if she is smart enough to counteract these tactics because, as history has proven with the re-election of our most incompetent and morally bankrupt president, joe-six-pack American is either too drunk, too stupid, or too hypnotized by Robertson, Dobson, Haggard, Craig, Vitter and their ilk to see through these deceptions.

Well first of all, Muslims have a huge trust problem when their holy book's stated goal is to convert or subjugate and kill infidels. Second, their track record in denouncing their extremists' terrorism hasn't been stellar.

On the other hand, the writer has a crystal ball.
As Lee Atwater used "Willie Horton" and his disciple Karl Rove and Cheney used "the war on terror" and the swift-boaters for their politics of hatred and fear, we can be sure that the Republicans will use the Muslims to do the same to Hillary (hating gays is so yesterday now we have Muslims to use). It will be interesting to see if she is smart enough to counteract these tactics because, as history has proved with the re-election of our most incompetent and morally bankrupt president, joe-six-pack American is either too drunk, too stupid, or too hypnotized by Robertson, Dobson, Haggard, Craig, Vitter and their ilk to see through these deceptions.

Well said, Eboo. Rudi and company are degenerate, megalomaniacal neo-nazi psychopaths. But the have a LOT of zionist money and power behind them. Dangerous? That's a like calling cancer "a bummer, dude."

Eboo Patil seems to have vivid imagination - blood frothing mouth and all. May be he gets it from defending non-Muslim haters - Islamic terrorists and their sympathizers - frothing their bloody mouths to kill kafirs.

May be the next president should release all the Islamic terrorists,like Willie Horton, and they can terrorize and kill innocent non-Muslims the world over.

So much for promoting inter-faith dialog - using an example of a poor suffering rapist and murderer.

An article which shouldve come ages back, most americans commenting r dodging questions about anti- muslim bias in their society and instead their best to link islam with violence, what i know is that there is a quote in the bible where jesus christ has asked to carry the sword and fight, the Torah also believes that messiah will come and with a huge army cut the unbelievers. There is a church in jordan called st.catherine's church or monastery which was given support legally by prophet Muhammad to carry on its services. In europe where till reformation catholicism had a huge hold over the population no other sect was allowed to survive whereas orthodox churches actually till today practice in the middle east. There are millions of christians practicing their faith in muslim majority countries in your hate dont make their lives worse u mite say they already are but yet the kind of sophisticated hate americans have for muslims i dont think they have such nonsense crap for any other faith b4 putting muslims in a corner think about those christian populations or else ur propaganda will isolate u on different levels and the world will burn.

Will Rudi lead us into WWIII?

My answer is:

Yes, primarily because of our dependence on Mid East oil and our war on Islam.

If we had spent the $1 Trillion that we have squandered on the illegal and immoral preemptive invasion and occupation of Iraq on developing alternative energy sources instead, we would be well on out way to energy dependence, and would have dramatically reduced the likely of WWIII.

If we did not unconditionally support the illegal and immoral Israeli usurpation of Palestine from its rightful owners, the Palestinian people, we would not have enraged the Islamic world, and would not have served as the catalyst for a probable WWIII.

Some argue that the “State of Israel” is legal because of the Balfour Declaration and its inclusion by the League of Nations in the British Mandate following WWI. However, the Balfour Declaration was the British response to the lobbying influence of the powerful Jews Baron Rothschild and Barron Hirsch.

So as a spoil of war after WWI, and as a result of the lobbying influence of wealthy Jews on the British government, Palestine was taken away from its rightful owners, the Palestinian people who had tended their flocks and orchards and farmed this land for millennia, and given instead to the Jews.

In a like manner it was the lobbying influence of the powerful American Israeli Political Action Committee (AIPAC) that mislead us into the moronic and disastrous preemptive invasion and occupation of Iraq. The dual motives for this disaster were our greed to control the world’s second largest oil field combined with the Israelis’ fear and loathing of Saddam Hussein. These same motives are at work in pushing us to bomb Iran’s suspected nuclear facilities.

Until we develop a fair and balanced policy with respect to Palestine, develop energy independence, and free ourselves from the influence of the Jewish lobby, the likelihood of starting WWIII will only increase.

On the other hand, you Muslims really do a very nice curry. Or is that Hindus? Whatever.

Dear Muslim,

Please answer the following questions. No one seems to want to address them.

1. Does the Qur'an and trusted hadith teach its adherents that Islam will subjugate the world?

2. Does the Qur'an teach that Christians who believe in the Trinity are idolaters in Qur'an 9?

3. What does Qur'an 9 teach the Muslim to do to all unbelieving Christians and Jews?

4. Why does the Qur'an instruct Muslims to make no friends of Christians and Jews?

5. Why did Muhammad say, "I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13)?

If all you can do is call me a hater or an Islamaphobe you have dodged the issues at hand. That kind of response shows me and all the other posters who have these same questions that you have no answers.

Anonymous the Brave stated that because of what befell the Indians, Christianity's default and not just Islam's default is violence. Let's examine that sophistry.

People are flawed creatures who often have a propensity for violence whatever the religion they are raised in. The difference is if the religion discourages violence and attempts to ameliorate it or actually encourages those violent propensities.

Examine the Koran and the New Testament to see which encourages and which discourges violence. There are 123 passages in the Koran that praise war and killing not to mention stating that enslaving non-believers is a reward to the faithful. This is strongly reinforced by Hadith.

In the New Testament Jesus harms no one and does not advocate harming anyone. In fact, the only act of violence against a person is when the servants of the temple came to arrest Jesus in the Garden, and Peter cut off the ear of one of them. Jesus told him to put up his sword and healed the wounded man. On the other hand Mohammed ordered the death of thousands, and his conduct in all things is held as the standard for Muslims.

Another example is Mohammed's ordering the stoning of adulterers. Contrast that with Jesus who saved a women from stoning by stating that those without sin should cast the first stone.

Yes, Christians have done bad things, and that is when they have been off message to the teachings of Jesus. Muslims have done bad things because they are on message with Mohammed's violent example and exhortations.

Here's another contrast. Koran and Hadith encourage Jihad againt unbelievers and promised heaven to those who die in battle while killing the enemies of Islam. The Byzantine reaction was not to copy this but to take the opposite stand. The Eastern Orthodox Church refused to offer heaven to soldiers who died in battle against Islam or anyone else. Killing, even in a justified war of self-defense, was still murder to the Church. As such it could not be glorified and instead required penance.

Thus you can see the comments of the Emperor Michael II Paleologus, quoted by Pope Benedict recently, in which he said that the only thing new Mohammed brought to religon was violence. The media, of course, also did not report that the obvious fact that he was onto something since his civilization was relentlessly destroyed by Muslim violence. They appeared immune to this irony. Of course, the Muslim reaction to this allegation of Mohammed's violent nature wss violence. Duh!

Another example is slavery. Islam has been the greatest slaver in history. Its conquest of Egypt and North Africa opened that continent up to Islam's insatiable desire for slaves and thus began the great African slave trade. When the Europeans at the beginning of the Age of Discovery sailed down the west coast of Africa, they found this system in high gear and were offered this human product by rapacious black kings. Slavery had essentially died out in Christian Europe at this time, but to their shame the Europeans copied the Muslim example and indulged in that practice. Even then, the number of blacks who disappeared into the slave markets of Islam outnumbered those who went across the Atlantic.

Now here is the great difference. Eventually, Christian civilization vomited up this shameful practice becausse it was simply incompatible with the core religious message. The British abolished it in 1833 and we followed in 1865 at the cost of 600,000 white lives, a decisive repudiation. It was the Europeans in the colonialization of Africa who stamped out the Muslim slave trade. In fact, it was the pressure from anti-slave societies that added an important impetus to colonialization.

Islam would never have abandoned slavery had the slaver's whip not been struck from its hand by the Christian West. Most of the credit goes to the British who forced the Ottomans and then the Persians in the 19th century to outlaw slaving and slavery, though it wasn't entirely successful. In 1912 when the Greeks liberated northern Greece from the Turks, they found large Turkish estates still filled with black slaves. The Arabs of the Hajez were outraged that this god-given birthright of their to have black slaves was challenged. As a result, Saudi Arabia and Yemen did not officially outlaw slavery until 1962. Yeah, sure.

Muslim slaving was even heavier in Europe and Eurasia. I mentioned the holocaust of the Greeks, but it extended to the entire Mediterranean basin which was filled with Muslim pirates and slavers. Provence was depopulated in the 8th century and France ravaged up the Loire River. Italy also felt the same brutal lash. The level of destruction was so great in these areas that it destroyed the last of the civilization of Rome. The Turkish conquered Hungary in 1521; there were four million Hungarians. When they were expelled two centuries later, there were only two and a half million. It is estimated that three million had trudged into the slave markets of Islam. In the Turkish assault on Vienna in 1683, about a half million Austrians were killed or carried off into slavery in an orgy of violence that depopulated lower Austria. Why do you think Mozart wrote his opera, "Abduction from the Seraglio" if it was still not a lurid memory of Austrian maidens ending up in a Turkish harem?

The hideous story of the Hindu genocide at the hands of Muslim conquerors has not been fully told in the West. When the Muslims burst into India, they considered the Hindus to be pagans who were to be offered only the choice of conversion or death. The slaughers continued on a massive scale until Muslim rulers figured out it was not a smart thing to wipe out your tax base. The Hindu Kush - literally the Hindu Death - gained its name because of the huge numbers of Hindu slaves who died in the mountains as they were being herded west to the slave markets of Islam.

The establishment of the Barbary pirate states in North Africa at the beginning of the 16th century saw three hundred year reign of teror on the high seas as an average of 5,000 European and American slaves were seized by Muslim slavers either directly from the ships they captured or from raids on the coasts of Italy, Iberia, southern France, Cornwall and Devon in England, and even Iceland where one Luthern parish was carried off entire. In three centuries as many as a million and a half people went into the slave markets of Islam by this source. It was only stopped when Tommy Jefferson set Europe an example and sent the new U.S. Navy and Marines to thump the pirates. After Napoleon fell, the British levelled Algiers in 1816 and ended the practice.

It is no accident that the wave of Arab conquests is called the First Jihad, the wave of Turkish conquests is called the Second Jihad, and this current Islamist madnness called the Third Jihad. It is because Islam continues to generate large scale violence which no Christian or Jewish leader anywhere today advocates. In Sudan it is Muslims who are again enslaving blacks, and it is Christians who are trying to buy them out of slavery and set them free. The difference could not be more stark.

Victoria,

You have not refuted one point I have made and neither have your articles that you have sent me. You are the that instructs people that they should not cut and paste yet you continually send your opponents articles by others. Defend what you believe for yourself if you can. Again, my hope is for the eternal salvation of your soul.

Omar Bouderdaben,

Prove that all that I said is false and I will renounce what I have said. But if you cannot you should examine whether you are deceived or not by weighing what the Bible actually teaches as compared to the Qur'an. They directly contradict each other and thus both cannot be right. Pat Robertson is not the arbiter of truth God is therefore, study the Bible and see whether it be true. Muslims have been telling me that the Bible is corrupted for the last 20 years because they know that both books cannot be true. So far not one Muslim has proved that the Bible is corrupted.

The following video is in Arabic and demonstrates the power of God to change lives. Check it out my Muslim friends and let me know what you think.

http://morethandreams.org/videos/Khalil.wmv

Anonymous the Brave stated that because of what befell the Indians, Christianity's default and not just Islam's default is violence. Let's examine that sophistry.

People are flawed creatures who often have a propensity for violence whatever the religion they are raised in. The difference is if the religion discourages violence and attempts to ameliorate it or actually encourages those violent propensities.

Examine the Koran and the New Testament to see which encourages and which discourges violence. There are 123 passages in the Koran that praise war and killing not to mention stating that enslaving non-believers is a reward to the faithful. This is strongly reinforced by Hadith.

In the New Testament Jesus harms no one and does not advocate harming anyone. In fact, the only act of violence against a person is when the servants of the temple came to arrest Jesus in the Garden, and Peter cut off the ear of one of them. Jesus told him to put up his sword and healed the wounded man. On the other hand Mohammed ordered the death of thousands, and his conduct in all things is held as the standard for Muslims.

Another example is Mohammed's ordering the stoning of adulterers. Contrast that with Jesus who saved a women from stoning by stating that those without sin should cast the first stone.

Yes, Christians have done bad things, and that is when they have been off message to the teachings of Jesus. Muslims have done bad things because they are on message with Mohammed's violent example and exhortations.

Here's another contrast. Koran and Hadith encourage Jihad againt unbelievers and promised heaven to those who die in battle while killing the enemies of Islam. The Byzantine reaction was not to copy this but to take the opposite stand. The Eastern Orthodox Church refused to offer heaven to soldiers who died in battle against Islam or anyone else. Killing, even in a justified war of self-defense, was still murder to the Church. As such it could not be glorified and instead required penance.

Thus you can see the comments of the Emperor Michael II Paleologus, quoted by Pope Benedict recently, in which he said that the only thing new Mohammed brought to religon was violence. The media, of course, also did not report that the obvious fact that he was onto something since his civilization was relentlessly destroyed by Muslim violence. They appeared immune to this irony. Of course, the Muslim reaction to this allegation of Mohammed's violent nature wss violence. Duh!

Another example is slavery. Islam has been the greatest slaver in history. Its conquest of Egypt and North Africa opened that continent up to Islam's insatiable desire for slaves and thus began the great African slave trade. When the Europeans at the beginning of the Age of Discovery sailed down the west coast of Africa, they found this system in high gear and were offered this human product by rapacious black kings. Slavery had essentially died out in Christian Europe at this time, but to their shame the Europeans copied the Muslim example and indulged in that practice. Even then, the number of blacks who disappeared into the slave markets of Islam outnumbered those who went across the Atlantic.

Now here is the great difference. Eventually, Christian civilization vomited up this shameful practice becausse it was simply incompatible with the core religious message. The British abolished it in 1833 and we followed in 1865 at the cost of 600,000 white lives, a decisive repudiation. It was the Europeans in the colonialization of Africa who stamped out the Muslim slave trade. In fact, it was the pressure from anti-slave societies that added an important impetus to colonialization.

Islam would never have abandoned slavery had the slaver's whip not been struck from its hand by the Christian West. Most of the credit goes to the British who forced the Ottomans and then the Persians in the 19th century to outlaw slaving and slavery, though it wasn't entirely successful. In 1912 when the Greeks liberated northern Greece from the Turks, they found large Turkish estates still filled with black slaves. The Arabs of the Hajez were outraged that this god-given birthright of their to have black slaves was challenged. As a result, Saudi Arabia and Yemen did not officially outlaw slavery until 1962. Yeah, sure.

Muslim slaving was even heavier in Europe and Eurasia. I mentioned the holocaust of the Greeks, but it extended to the entire Mediterranean basin which was filled with Muslim pirates and slavers. Provence was depopulated in the 8th century and France ravaged up the Loire River. Italy also felt the same brutal lash. The level of destruction was so great in these areas that it destroyed the last of the civilization of Rome. The Turkish conquered Hungary in 1521; there were four million Hungarians. When they were expelled two centuries later, there were only two and a half million. It is estimated that three million had trudged into the slave markets of Islam. In the Turkish assault on Vienna in 1683, about a half million Austrians were killed or carried off into slavery in an orgy of violence that depopulated lower Austria. Why do you think Mozart wrote his opera, "Abduction from the Seraglio" if it was still not a lurid memory of Austrian maidens ending up in a Turkish harem?

The establishment of the Barbary pirate states at the beginning of the 16th century saw three hundred year reign of teror on the high seas as an average of 5,000 European and American slaves were seized by Muslim slavers either directly from the ships they captured or from raids on the coasts of Italy, Iberia, southern France, Cornwall and Devon in England, and even Iceland where one Luthern parish was carried off entire. In three centuries as many as a million and a half people went into the slave markets of Islam by this source. It was only stopped when Tommy Jefferson set Europe an example and sent the new U.S. Navy and Marines to thump the pirates. After Napoleon fell, the British levelled Algiers and ended the practice.

It is no accident that the wave of Arab conquests is called the First Jihad, the wave of Turkish conquests is called the Second Jihad, and this current Islamist madnness called the Third Jihad. It is because Islam continues to generate large scale violence which no Christian Or Jewish leader anywhere today advocates. In Sudan it is Muslims who are again enslaving blacks, and it is Christians who are trying to buy them out of slavery and set them free. The difference could not be more stark.

if you can find one lie, youre welcome to post it-
but dont hog this blog- post it on islam and violence

im not looking in on this post again today, but ill check the islam and violence for your response

Victoria: I've been reading the posts on the "Islam and Violence" thread. If you were a decent human being you would apologise for the lies you told. You are making all Muslims look like liars and extremeists trying to deceive Americans.

pablo- weve had this discussion many times-

the qu'ran is no a storybook, written in chronological order-

but you know that- as weve had long discussions where your points were refuted, elaborated on, and clarified.

youre wrong- and your interpretations are wrong-
your information is wrong, and the way you coalesce it is wrong.

ive spent pages on answering you- you just want to bash-

do you have anything else to offer besides your iron fisted 'love'?

Victoria,

Thanks for your lesson on straw man arguments but please address the issues I raised in my post. You told me you were going to get back to me on some other questions I raised on another post but I am still waiting. I am still praying that you will see the truth of Jesus Christ. I really do care about you and all Muslims.

Gezelda,

The following is written out of a heart that cares for Muslim people who I believe are enslaved to lies from the evil one. Like a doctor has to tell a patient the bad news about a disease before the patient is ready to receive the cure I feel compelled from a heart of love to tell you the diagnosis of the Bible as it relates to the religion of Islam.

Jesus is insulted, degraded, and pictured as merely a prophet in the Qur'an. Jesus is a prophet but also God in human flesh in the Bible. He is the one who created the universe (Genesis 1; John 1; Colossians 1)and the one to whom all the angels bow down (Hebrews 1). The Qur'an also denies Jesus' atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world on the cross and His resurrection from the dead. In the Bible these things are to sole basis for salvation and new life for all who believe.

Early on in the recording of the Qur'an Jews and Christians are commended on one hand as "people of the book." But after the Jews and Christians rejected Muhammad as a prophet Jews and Christians are despised in the Qur'an (Qur'an 5:51; 72-75; Qur'an 9). When Jews and Christians rejected Muhammad he unsheathed his sword and went out murdering all who would not bow to his supposed revelations. Because the message changed in Muhammad's later teachings Muslims in the West like to point to Muhammad's earlier teachings that shine a more favorable light on Islam as it relates to Christians and Jews but that is duplicitous because the Qur'an teaches that later revelations cancel out earlier revelations when they contradict.

"Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy" (Proverbs 27:6).

Reading most of these posts, especially the ones denouncing the article makes me realize that we are really in trouble. From my name you may realize that I am a Muslim (and proud one at that), however, I can't believe, even if for a moment I agree with Mr. Robertson opinion of Islam, how could he sell out his principles? But this is not the scary thought, since we know Mr. Robertson already sold his soule for a profit... But what is scarier is that the majority of Christian right does not see this as a something wrong... God help us...

pablo do you know what a straw man is?

noun
1. a person used as a cover for some questionable activity [syn: front man]
2. a weak or sham argument set up to be easily refuted

A made-up version of an opponent's argument that can easily be defeated. To accuse people of attacking a straw man is to suggest that they are avoiding worthier opponents and more valid criticisms of their own position: “His speech had emotional appeal, but it wasn't really convincing because he attacked a straw man rather than addressing the real issues.”

mr patels point is that rudy has many issues that are incongruous with the religious right-

his multiple marriages, adulterous affiar, children who hate him, questionable business association with Kerik who's under indictment as we speak- (and dont forget rudys push to make him the director of homeland security which fell part)
from the relgious right view-
his pro-gay (read anti-marriage)and pro-choice(read pro-abortion , anti-life- take your pick)
stances

all of the news stations this morning are buzzing with these issues-
its a timely conversation to be having

rudy's ploy of getting a pat robertson endorsement- (whose own influence has seriously waned) is an obvious attmept to curry favor with and pander to the evangelicals who put the last republican in office-

the lesser of 2 evils, anything but hillary!

are you suggesting that mr patel sits before his word processor- picks up the phone, and asks,"pablo, what do you want me to write about?"

besides pablo- you only have one issue-

despite your 'love' for muslims that always degenerates into hte by the end of your post, it would be boring to hear the same question over and over again

i think, actually, your questions are a feeble attempt to cover up that you have no knowledge of politics in america, are dismally informd, have nothing to contribute on topic- but still want to talk anyway.

i say that for the rest who seem incapable of presenting a post that responds to the panelist.

pat and rudy sat together on a plane, and formed a questionable alliance, both for purely selfish and politically expedient reason-

rudys motives? get the evangelical right vote
he can use pat to do that

pats motives?
dont let hillary get into office
he can use rudy to do that

the clincher?
mutual hatred of muslims

theres a year to go before the elections

lots and lots of things can unravel a candidate (and today, wathing the news- it seems like its already started)

74% of americans YESTERDAY said they want a president who is completely UNLIKE george bushs administration

dont shoot the messenger

I can't help but think this move by Robertson is more wanting to have *his* fingers in the likely Republican nominee than about approving of Guiliani, not that the Religious Right doesn't have a long history of backing hypocrites for power.

Though Guiliani seems perfectly willing to pander, especially about the 'War on Terror' issues, the Religious Right has a long history of the rules they want to impose being for 'the little people' and not themselves.

harbie- its funny you tell mr patel to keep sectarianism out of politics-

what do you think rudy is doing?

by trying to suck up to the evangelicals, (pundits on the left AND right are remarking at his obvious shape-shifting) by getting a pat robertson endorsement (read relgious right)
you think rudy isnt dragging reigion into the forefront?
and specific sectarian religion at that

commenting on this doesnt mean mr patel created the situation, he is just commenting on the actions of those that did create it

Hello Eboo,

You raise a straw man here we do not hate Muslims we hate what Qur'an believing Muslims are doing to the world. I care about Muslim people and want to see them set free from the lie of Islam.

You are using a popular Islamic tactic to deflect attention away from the real issue. You need to prove that the Qur'an, Muhammad's example, and the history of Islam does not teach its adherents to fight for an Islamic hegemony in the world by all means possible including war.

Please answer these questions:

1. Does the Qur'an and trusted hadith teach its adherents that Islam will subjugate the world?

2. Does the Qur'an teach that Christians who believe in the Trinity are idolaters in Qur'an 9?

3. What does Qur'an 9 teach the Muslim to do to all unbelieving Christians and Jews?

4. Why does the Qur'an instruct Muslims to make no friends of Christians and Jews?

5. Why did Muhammad say, "I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me" (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13)?

Eboo you need to take care of these big problems before you run around playing the victim. Personally I am tired of Muslims playing the victim while their brethren are running around blowing up people who do not believe what they do.

ShalShah: http://www.hoax-buster.org/sellyoursoul explains it all. What did you expect from devil worshipers, love?

Islam is truly a woman hating , tribal loving anti modernity black hole of this humanity which must be removed completely from pages of history like hard line catholicism was done few hundred years ago even if it means shedding blood.

Hey Eboo - how bout a post from you one of these days where you decry all the violence Muslims perpetrate (just like the Koran tells them to) rather than you lashing out at those who dare to point out that Muslims are committing acts of violence?

Although not part of the religious right, I do agree with a lot of republicans when comes to Muslims and their extremism. Their faith is steeped in violence, agression, jihad and brainwashing. Yes, I do know that "jihad" actually means a personal struggle. But come on, let's get real and not play around with the semantics of the word. Muslims are troublemakers throughout the entire world, especially when they are a minority in a country. Honestly, show me something positive that comes from the faith in our society and maybe---just maybe, you'll convince me otherwise. The Q'uran basically trashes the Jewish people who have done so much for this world and then goes on to say how Muslim people will end up just like their Jewish compatriots on the road to "jahannum" (hell). It seems like the foretold prophecy of judgement day is right around the corner for muslims, who have been a prick in the side of societies who are progressing. It's time they stop living in the dark ages.

While we are talking so much about the "faith divide" it is only fair to be reminded of the century-old "faith unity." Muslims, Christians and Jews are all "Sons of Abraham" and members of the same religious history. Jesus is praised in the Koran more often than Mohammed, and the Virgin Mary is also honored. Jesus was himself a Jew protesting against what he saw as the dangers of his time. There have also been periods when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together in peace, proving it can be done. The main problem seems to be that each faith has a huge superiority complex and is suspicious of the others.

While we are talking so much about the "faith divide" it is only fair to be reminded of the century-old "faith unity." Muslims, Christians and Jews are all "Sons of Abraham" and members of the same religious history. Jesus is praised in the Koran more often than Mohammed, and the Virgin Mary is also honored. Jesus was himself a Jew protesting against what he saw as the dangers of his time. There have also been periods when Muslims, Christians and Jews lived together in peace, proving it can be done. The main problem seems to be that each faith has a huge superiority complex and is suspicious of the others.

it may all be moot anyway- rudys best friend kireck and business partner has charges that may put him in prison for 100 years (literally)
which goes to his judgement and his association

ive watched the republican debates, and rudy doesnt have much of a platform besides fear- i cant imagine his being able to stand up against another debate-

the more we see of rudy the better, he seems to be capapble of orchestrating his own undoing

serious pundits are not taking pat robertson too seriously and consider this a cheap obvious stunt
(remember pats run 20 years ago?)

Your two hypothetical questions reek of sectarian hate-mongering and can be answered with a resounding no! In typical sleaze fashion you are trying to score points for the Democratic Party as most Muslim's running for office in local elections throughout the nation were Democrats. Just keep sectarianism out of American elections!

Your two hypothetical questions reek of sectarian hate-mongering and can be answered with a resounding no! In typical sleaze fashion you are trying to score points for the Democratic Party as most Muslim's running for office in local elections throughout the nation were Democrats. Just keep sectarianism out of American elections!

It's terrible sad that you are probably correct.

America needs someone to hate... at least the Radical Right does.

Peter Tsouras posted:

My ancestors are Greek. There are only ten million today; there would have been one hundred million had it not been for a thousand-year Muslim rampage of butchery and slaving. Violence is Islam's default which explains why all the borders of Islam are bloody. Islamophobia then is simply a natural survival mechanism for the victims of Muslim predation.

just to let you know sir
The same thing can be said of Native Americans. Except it took Christians only 500 years to effectively wipe Native Americans out. Does this make violence Christianity's default too?

The one thing you leave out is that Podhoretz, King and Pipes are completely correct, Muslims are an enemy living amongst us.
We are fools to allow our enemies to live here and we will pay a heavy price for doing so.

Brilliant. Kudos for taking a strong stance.

Rudy turns to Robertson and Podhoretz and says: “Let’s find a Muslim Willie Horton.”

The problem here is who would play Willie in this little tragedy?

Osama can not be found, the Muslim "airline pilots" from 9/11 are all dead, anyone from Guantanamo would want to talk about how much they have enjoyed their visit to our little tropical paradise, folks from our "secret rendition sites" will have to clear the water from their nose first, Iranian leaders will just laugh, other Muslim leaders will just raise the price of oil again, and the guy from Canada now has enough money to defend himself. I guess there needs to be a massive threat level elevation to "red" and find that fervent Muslim mom before she starts shooting up the PTA.

As a progressive christian American, I have my own handful of fear cards with health care, employment, energy, retirement and getting along better in this world. More are being dealt to me every day, so let's play that hand first! To me, the "end time" will be when those issues no longer scare me more than "A noun, a verb and 9/11".

Whatcha say...Please...Someone...Hello?

Rudy turns to Robertson and Podhoretz and says: “Let’s find a Muslim Willie Horton.”

The problem here is who would play Willie in this little tragedy?

Osama can not be found, the Muslim "airline pilots" from 9/11 are all dead, anyone from Guantanamo would want to talk about how much they have enjoyed their visit to our little tropical paradise, folks from our "secret rendition sites" will have to clear the water from their nose first, Iranian leaders will just laugh, other Muslim leaders will just raise the price of oil again, and the guy from Canada now has enough money to defend himself. I guess there needs to be a massive threat level elevation to "red" and find that fervent Muslim mom before she starts shooting up the PTA.

As a progressive christian American, I have my own handful of fear cards with health care, employment, energy, retirement and getting along better in this world. More are being dealt to me every day, so let's play that hand first! To me, the "end time" will be when those issues no longer scare me more than "A noun, a verb and 9/11".

Whatcha say...Please...Someone...Hello?

This is how we choose our President? This is how individual voters finally decide for whom to vote? Unbelievable, but probably true. And, what is best for America, a change of course, or more of the same maladministration, lying, fiscal irresponsibility, and early death? The Republican message: Don't vote for Hillary because 1) she'll raise your taxes, 2) she's for socialized medicine, and now 3) she's a friend to terrorists. Instead, vote for Rudy: 1) He was on the case *AFTER* his emergency operations center he put in the WTC was knocked out, 2) He kept NYC safe *AFTER* the attacks, 3) His good buddy Bernie Kerek has only been slightly indicted, 4) His kids don't really hate him, much, 5) His ex-wives have their reasons, 6) His cross-dressing shows what a beautiful woman he could have made, and 7) Those new radios work worse than the old ones because the cozy relationship between the vendor and NYC is still cozy.

The fear is not of Muslims but of people who hate America, and the largest group now is Jihadist. Until a Muslim stands up against the Jihadists he is like southerners fifty years ago who allowed the KKK to do their hatred whether they agreed or not. Good people MUST stand up against hatred.

On the Islam and Violence thread Victoria says-

"thats a 10 minute video of singing in arabic-

for all we know theyre singing buy american!"

Perhaps someone here will give a translation-

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/2007/04/islam_and_violence/comments.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWxx5YRsa1Y

Eboo Patel is a racist. He hates all things not Islam(istic).

It is highly unlikely, as Giuliani understands that Robertson's prurient obsessions with homosexuality are hardly conducive to heterosexual behavior.

It is highly unlikely, as Giuliani understands that Robertson's prurient obsessions with homosexuality are hardly conducive to heterosexual behavior.

Yonkers, New York
10 November 2007

Rudy Giuliani will stop at nothing, apparently, to win the Republican presidential nomination--even if he has to assume the role of a blatant demagogue, which is exactly what he is doing by fostering hatred against Muslims.

Thinking Americans can only respond with deep revulsion against this egregious demagoguing by Rudy Giuliano. They will be turned off completely knowing that even the Christian evangelical flock of Pat Robertson cannot be unanimous in their endorsement of a demagogue and a jingoist like Rudy Giuliani.
MarPatalinjug@aol.com

My ancestors are Greek. There are only ten million today; there would have been one hundred million had it not been for a thousand-year Muslim rampage of butchery and slaving. Violence is Islam's default which explains why all the borders of Islam are bloody. Islamophobia then is simply a natural survival mechanism for the victims of Muslim predation.

When it comes to a commentary on hate, I have a thought. It seems that "Hating Muslims" is far far far prevlant among the so-called religious right (which for many columnists and reporters is now synonomous with anyone who reads and believes in the teachings of the Bible), than hating evangelicals has become in vogue in the media today. I am no fan of Pat Robertson, believe me, nor of Rudy Guiliani. I am likely to cast my vote in November for the Democratic nominee. But to be honest, that this column even appears in this newspaper I find incredibly frightening. This section of the Post needs to find some balance and perspective.

Samir:

Did you protest when your fellow muslims slaughtered Eastern Timorese like rats? Did you protest when Iran placed two bombs in Buenos Aires killing hundreds or people who have nothing to do with your sh.thole? Do you protest when the followers of the religion of peace blow up cafes, cinemas, and schools in Iraq and Somalia? Did you agree that the Danish cartoon authors must be slaughtered for their offense to your primitive religion? Why is that muslims scream for holy war and then soil themselves and moan and groan when it is served to you boiling hot by your enemies?

Daniel Pipes
"The increased stature, and affluence, and enfranchisement of American Muslims...will present true dangers to American Jews."

"The Palestinians are a miserable people...and they deserve to be." Daniel Pipes, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, July 2001

"Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene...All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most." (National Review, 11/19/90)

"Iranians and Pakistanis, to take two groups of non-Arabs, are at least as widely conspiracy-minded and as anti-Semitic as, say, Tunisians and Kuwaitis." (Commentary, 9/1/99)

"...black converts tend to hold vehemently anti-American, anti-Christian, and anti-Semitic attitudes." (Commentary, 6/1/2000)

It's Daniel Pipes' day in the sun. He's a media darling, a so-called "expert" on Islam, Muslims, and the Arab-Israeli conflict. But don't be fooled too easily.

Daniel Pipes says that most (he's used figures like 80%, 85%) American Muslim institutions are infiltrated by "Islamists", a scary term that Pipes never defines. He's going to tell you that the American Muslim leadership is "Islamist", and he will cite quotes that consist more of ellipses than words.

: "The Muslim population in this country is not like any other group, for it includes within it a substantial body of people… who share with the suicide hijackers a hatred of the United States.") is taking advantage of this climate to suggest that "bothersome or offensive measures" such as internment camps may be the price "we" have to pay for security."

"What war had achieved for Israel," Pipes explained at a recent Zionist conference in Washington DC, "diplomacy has undone."

His solution is simple: The Israeli military must force what Pipes describes as a "change of heart" by the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza -- a sapping of the Palestinian will to fight which can lead to a complete surrender. "How is a change of heart achieved? It is achieved by an Israeli victory and a Palestinian defeat," Pipes continued. "The Palestinians need to be defeated even more than Israel needs to defeat them."

"For years, it has been my position that the threat of radical Islam implies an imperative to focus security measures on Muslims. If searching for rapists, one looks only at the male population. Similarly, if searching for Islamists (adherents of radical Islam), one looks at the Muslim population. And so, I was encouraged by a just-released Cornell University opinion survey that finds nearly half the U.S. population agreeing with this proposition. Specifically, 44 percent of Americans believe that government authorities should direct special attention toward Muslims living in the United States, either by registering their whereabouts, profiling them, monitoring their mosques or infiltrating their organizations. That's the good news; the bad news is the near-universal disapproval of this realism. Leftist and Islamist organizations have so successfully influenced public opinion that polite society shies away from endorsing a focus on Muslims. In the United States, this intimidation results in large part from a revisionist interpretation of the evacuation, relocation and internment of ethnic Japanese during World War II.
— Daniel Pipes, Why the Japanese internment still matters, Star Telegram, December 30, 2004.

Daniel Pipes
"The increased stature, and affluence, and enfranchisement of American Muslims...will present true dangers to American Jews."

"The Palestinians are a miserable people...and they deserve to be." Daniel Pipes, Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, July 2001

"Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene...All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most." (National Review, 11/19/90)

"Iranians and Pakistanis, to take two groups of non-Arabs, are at least as widely conspiracy-minded and as anti-Semitic as, say, Tunisians and Kuwaitis." (Commentary, 9/1/99)

"...black converts tend to hold vehemently anti-American, anti-Christian, and anti-Semitic attitudes." (Commentary, 6/1/2000)

It's Daniel Pipes' day in the sun. He's a media darling, a so-called "expert" on Islam, Muslims, and the Arab-Israeli conflict. But don't be fooled too easily.

Daniel Pipes says that most (he's used figures like 80%, 85%) American Muslim institutions are infiltrated by "Islamists", a scary term that Pipes never defines. He's going to tell you that the American Muslim leadership is "Islamist", and he will cite quotes that consist more of ellipses than words.

: "The Muslim population in this country is not like any other group, for it includes within it a substantial body of people… who share with the suicide hijackers a hatred of the United States.") is taking advantage of this climate to suggest that "bothersome or offensive measures" such as internment camps may be the price "we" have to pay for security."

"What war had achieved for Israel," Pipes explained at a recent Zionist conference in Washington DC, "diplomacy has undone."

His solution is simple: The Israeli military must force what Pipes describes as a "change of heart" by the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza -- a sapping of the Palestinian will to fight which can lead to a complete surrender. "How is a change of heart achieved? It is achieved by an Israeli victory and a Palestinian defeat," Pipes continued. "The Palestinians need to be defeated even more than Israel needs to defeat them."

"For years, it has been my position that the threat of radical Islam implies an imperative to focus security measures on Muslims. If searching for rapists, one looks only at the male population. Similarly, if searching for Islamists (adherents of radical Islam), one looks at the Muslim population. And so, I was encouraged by a just-released Cornell University opinion survey that finds nearly half the U.S. population agreeing with this proposition. Specifically, 44 percent of Americans believe that government authorities should direct special attention toward Muslims living in the United States, either by registering their whereabouts, profiling them, monitoring their mosques or infiltrating their organizations. That's the good news; the bad news is the near-universal disapproval of this realism. Leftist and Islamist organizations have so successfully influenced public opinion that polite society shies away from endorsing a focus on Muslims. In the United States, this intimidation results in large part from a revisionist interpretation of the evacuation, relocation and internment of ethnic Japanese during World War II.
— Daniel Pipes, Why the Japanese internment still matters, Star Telegram, December 30, 2004.

Vote for me or the MOOZLUMS'll gitcha!

911

Lumping thoughtful intellectuals like Daniel Pipes and Norman Podhoretz with Pat Robertson is disgraceful. You may not like their opinions, Mr. Patel, but they are not racist and not without basis.

Was moses a terrorist?
see my video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYvYd-7hi_Q

Shalom.

Thanks, Mr. Patel, for speaking up for common sense and decency. I thought Republican bloggers were joking when they warned us Democrats off Sen. Obama, simply because of his name. Now, that's some serious prejudice.

Willie Horton didn't destroy the twin towers in the name of Islam. Polls consistently show that Msulims around the world see us as the enemy.

I do acknowledge that polls also disapprove of al qaeda's methods, but it doesn't disagree with the underlying animosity.

That's like the Palestinians saying " terror attacks in Israel are unhelpful to our goal" as opposed to saying "We abhor attacks on civilians, no matter who they are. This is evil."

52. Donttypellies and Dr. Ali:

It is indeed time to leave Islam. But leaving Islam is not enough. There has to be a destination that makes it worth leaving. If the departure trip ends up in atheism or hedonism or one of many other 'isms' it might not be worth the hassle.

However, to leave for a relationship with a gracious and merciful, kind and loving God in the person of Jesus Christ, in which your sins can be forgiven, you can be regenerated, you can receive fruit of Holy Spirit and a home in heaven, that is the wisest decision any of us can make.

We need to embrace the Cross of Jesus on which He died for our sins, glory in the empty tomb where He dealt a mortal blow to sin/death/the devil, and follow Jesus. In Jesus' words (Mark 1), "repent and believe".
Much grace,
StephenC

Daniel,

"This Muslim killing of Muslim men, women, and children is happening right now in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Iraq, Palestine.."

Again that's your bigoted assumption that underlies your argument. To assume that when there is a murder in Pakistan it's religion and not politics or when a Sudanese Junjaweed pillages he is doing it out of religious conviction and not out of farmer vs herder disputes is downright abhorrent.

Yes there is inter-ethnic, inter-religious bloodshed in Muslim countries, but to say its their religion that motivates it would be like saying Americans shoot and murder Americans because they're Americans. Or to assume that violence is in Americans blood since during the civil war millions of fellow Americans killed their fellow country men, without regard to their Christian faith.

In short, what you do is grossly oversimplify. I would commend you though Daniel to recognize that people in their own countries themselves can stop the violence in their land.

Each sides invokes anything that gives them an advantage (Islam in the case of Hamas vs. Fatah)

You are correct in that Muslims need to understand their own religion a little better. I would add to it, and Americans need to better understand THEIR OWN CONSTITUTION which has been trampled to declare foreign wars against Islam and Muslims.

Paging Dr. RON PAUL...

P.S. I agree with your post "The Moderate" 100%

Dear Samir:

"How much have you railed against spying, torture, ripping up of habeaus corpus, and support of Israel at the expense of the Palestinian nation and the Lebanese?"

Good point. What we all like to forget is the legitimate grievances that the Palestinians suffer daily. Justice for the Palestinians would be a first step to peace in the Middle East. They are owed economic assistance to repay what was taken from them, education, decent jobs, freedom of movement, health care, and above all, they are owed respect. When they have received these things, Israel may be safe, too.

If Rudy Giuliani is indicative of Catholics what does it say about Catholicism? Nothing since he is just 1 Catholic out of countless. I guess not the same careful reasoning is allowed for Muslims by the Republicans since they aren't many Muslim voters as Catholic voters. Their typical "Southern Strategy"

"I believe they are defending their land and tribe as they see fit"

They are killing Muslim children. Defending land and tribe? That's madness. This Muslim killing of Muslim men, women, and children is happening right now in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Iraq, Palestine.. It is epidemic and signifies a deeper problem. It's not going to stop spontaneously. It must be addressed by the Islamic community. Paging Dr. Ali..

@LOUSIE:

>>> Rudy Giuliani will probably go down in history as the only human being who has ever turned down blood money..umm..a..bribe..a..donation from a Saud."

I am sure Rudy is willing to re-consider if the money is going into his coffers. His whole campaign is walking on the 3000+ dead bodies over and over again

Rudy Giuliani's crime boss is now indicted. McCain says thats indicative of Giuliani's own failed judgment.

It speaks of Giuliani's failure to allow fire fighters to use radios on 9/11 while claiming he has been at the 9/11 site more so than the Fire-fighters who spent countless grueling months non-stop. Now he goes after Moslems. Why am I not surprised? truly, he will say anything to win.

It'll be interesting to see how Giuliani invokes 9/11 to tippy toe his way out Bernard Kerik's indictment and federal criminal probe though.

“Let’s find a Muslim Willie Horton.”

Too bad there are so many to choose from.

Present day Islam seems on par with the postbellum "Christians" who harbored the Ku Klux Klan. The Mainstream Christian faith community was able to pull away from these terrorists after while.

I look forward to the day when mainstream Islam can pull away from its terrorists, too.

I yet believe that those of true faith in God (Allah, if you please) will win out and find a path to peace.

Daniel says, "Are you saying the Taliban does not take their inspiration from the Qur'an and their love of Islam and devotion to Allah?"

The Taliban are religious hardliners and a product of their rugged, mountain environment and ultraconservative education.

A better question for you is: Why and how would you consider my devotion to my God as 2nd rate and impure to that of the Taliban's?

Just because you are made to believe their practice of Islam is the "pure form" I guess that "pureness" is subjective considering Shi'a Iranian would take issue with that, as would Syrian Alawis, Sufi Turks, and Saudi Wahhabis.

As as what constitute 'pure' Americans is vague (see Eboo's previous column about what makes an American) so is the question on Islam.

Daniel adds: "Then why are you not speaking against them?"

I don't need to speak out against them, b/c I believe they are defending their land and tribe as they see fit against a foreign superpower stupid enough to launch a war against the most backward country because they didn't understand Afghan tribal customs. Bush asked them to hand over bin Laden, and they refused (of course) because AFGHANS WOULD DIE BEFORE HANDING OVER THEIR GUESTS (no matter who they are) to foreigners. Its against their most basic tribal customs. I guess you didn't know that.

However, what I'd like to know, as much as I might disagree with the Taliban, how much have you ever protested on the street against torture of innocent hundreds of thousands of Muslim Iraqis brutally killed by your unremorseful President who launched an invasion based on 1) Lies 2) Fear of WMD 3) Oil 4) Military-Industrial complex think Halliburton, Blackwater, Lockheed, and Pentagon 5) and Israel?

How much have you railed against spying, torture, ripping up of habeaus corpus, and support of Israel at the expense of the Palestinian nation and the Lebanese?

I see Eboo Patel, the founder and executive director of the Interfaith Youth Core has chosen this week to reveal his cyber alter-ego-

I-ZHEET M'DRURZ

Christian evangelicals are split on who to support with different groups reaching different resolutions on the trade off between backing someone who can win and someone who they want. The irony is that Pat Robertson, of all people, held his nose and came out on the pragmatist side.

I understand as a Muslim you fear a Republican candidate playing an anti-Muslim card. But buck up. It is far more likely that any Republican candidate will play an anti-Immigrant card, because that card will be more effective. Arguing for permanent war against Islam is too close to the failed policies of Bush to be a political success. Probably, this does not make you feel any better.

Gandalf:

Every time I take a step back and think, I find the following information:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, warmongering, hallucinating Arab who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror? The Islamic Shiite terror theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

CCNL: You clearly are still NOT liberated, you idiotic, narrow-minded, intolerant bigot! You are still lumping an entire group of population in the same basket? Do you ever take time to step back and think again about your position? Do you ever think really?

Eboo,

It is not hate or dislike of Muslims. It is distrust!!!!

This famous quote says it all:

"Gators vs. Muslims??? Gators definitely will kill. With Muslims, it depends but with the koran as their operating manual can we trust any of them?"

And the biggest example of this is the Islamic terror theocracy of Iran!!! It is strange that you never criticize this Third Axis of Evil. Or is it??