The Faith Divide: New Orleans: Recover, Rebuild, Rebirth

New Orleans: Recover, Rebuild, Rebirth

The shoeshine guy checked out my scuffed-up right shoe and said, “I can get that mark off for you, my man.”

“It’s a water stain,” I told him. “I’ve polished it over and over, but it keeps coming back.”

“Gimme six bucks and five minutes and it’ll be good as new.”

He told me his story as he worked away. Born and raised in New Orleans, lost everything in the flood, lives in a FEMA trailer, bound and determined to get his life back to normal, and have his city return to glory. “I’m doing okay. Some parts of the city are back, the whole thing will take ten more years, but it’ll be better than before. We got a lot of good people here committed to getting the job done.”

“You’re all set to go,” he said.

I looked down at my shoe – better than new.

I came to New Orleans to speak at the Clinton Global Initiative University conference at Tulane University. President Clinton, along with Bush the Elder, has helped focus an enormous amount of attention and resources on this city. Like everyone else, I’d watched the TV coverage two and a half years ago, shocked by scenes of people chanting, “Help, Help, Help” in the Superdome, and stories of others being chased onto the roofs of their houses by rising floodwaters, waiting for help that too often never came.

But TV distances as much as it connects. You can turn it off, and anything you can turn off doesn’t seem fully real.

Until you get there. My friend Alycia drove me through the lower 9th ward in her four-wheeler, navigating the twisted, pot-holed roads like a pro. It looked basically like abandoned territory, dozens maybe hundreds of blocks of weed-filled vacant lots. Alycia slowed down, pointed out the window at vacant lot after vacant lot and said “Home, home, home, home.” Sure enough, if you looked carefully through the weeds and garbage, you could make out the foundations of what were once houses.

“Holy cow,” I said, suddenly getting it. The people I saw on TV two and a half years ago in the filth of the Superdome … they once lived here. “Where did all these people go?” I asked, absently, stupidly, insultingly.

Alycia just shook her head as if to say, “People who don’t live here just don’t get it.” And she’s right.

But seeing it first-hand at least puts a human face on the familiar litany of statistics. Almost two thousand people dead. Eighty percent of the city under water for an average of fifty-seven days. Four hundred thousand jobs lost. Two hundred and seventy-five thousand homes destroyed.

And a list of intractable problems so long that it gives you a headache. There’s soil contamination, for one, and serious safety problems with some FEMA trailers, for another. And then there’s something that a guy I met called, “the Katrina cough” – a dry heave he said his doctor couldn’t diagnose, but which just got worse and worse for the whole six months he was working in neighborhoods with severe water damage. Finally, he just had to stop. “After a while, you don’t even want to breathe, the cough hurts so much,” he said.

And still, President Scott Cowen of Tulane University, who gave a remarkable afternoon keynote address at the Clinton Global Initiative, said that he’s never been so optimistic about the city. Before Katrina, it had the worst school system in America, serious crime and corruption problems, a profoundly inadequate infrastructure. And now, the city leaders along with common residents are dreaming about what a model 21st century city would look like. What kind of public education system should it have? What kind of health care delivery? And perhaps most daringly, how can all of it be done on an entirely green basis – from working-class parts of town to tourist areas.

“This is the greatest social experiment in America,” President Cowen said.

The key ingredient – civic engagement. While the government response to Katrina was woeful, the citizen response was heroic. People came from all over to volunteer. Some of America’s most creative social entrepreneurs showed up and stayed, excited about the possibility of building a school system, a health care system, a crime-fighting strategy, and all the other dimensions of a great city, essentially from scratch. (On Thursday, I’ll write about some of the faith-based volunteers and social entrepreneurs I met in New Orleans).

And as President Cowen is helping re-think and re-build New Orleans, he is doing the same with Tulane University. Civic engagement is now a serious part of the curriculum at Tulane, and not simply in the form of one-off volunteer projects. It’s a graduation requirement that is receiving the same type of attention as traditional academic subjects.

And if you want a snapshot into the idealism of this generation, consider this: Tulane’s application numbers boomed from 17,000 last year to 34,000 this year. Why? Because there is a strong desire in a large number of young people to make a major contribution to the great issues of our time. And post-storm New Orleans is one of the best places in the world to do that.

Annie Dillard ends An American Childhood with the line, “In New Orleans – if you could get to New Orleans – would the music be loud enough?”

The music is plenty loud on Frenchmen Street, a scene just a few blocks from the French Quarter but a world away.

At The Spotted Cat, a band led by a clarinet player burst forth parade music with a North African flavor, throwing their hands in the air and gleefully shouting “Haaaaaaayyyyyy” on the offbeat. Several dozen people with funky hats and wild shoes danced with abandon outside, myself amongst them (less funky, less wild, equal abandon). The bouncer, a gruff looking black guy in a wheelchair with no legs, supervised the outside-dancing with a knowing air.

Ellis Marsalis – the patriarch of the first family of jazz – was holding court across the street. A reggae band was three doors down. A girl wearing a housewife’s dress was on the porch of the closed coffee shop singing Loretta Lynn songs. Att the Electric Ladyland Tattoo Parlor, a guy with quarter-size holes in his earlobes was cleaning the African mask on the wall with a three-foot feather duster, paying careful attention to each centimeter. I guess he didn’t want the spirit to feel slighted.

I spend a lot of time in meetings these days. My collection of business suits has grown steadily over the past few years. I think about budgets and strategy and staff management. I go home to my wife and my baby son. And then I get up and do it again. It is a life that I love, a life that I thank God for.

But on Frenchmen Street, I visited the other half of my soul: the jazz half. (I remember feeling a little guilty telling Dr. Umar Abdallah, one of American Islam’s most important scholars, that I love jazz. He responded, “Eboo, Islam is jazz). It was a reminder that life has a variety of rhythms and melodies, flows that are not antagonistic to my work-a-day life, but balance it, make it whole.

That’s what New Orleans is about, that’s why it is necessary to America, that’s why we have to bring it back.

There is a sign nailed to a lamppost on the corner of Frenchmen and Royal.

And
Yes
I said
Yes
I will
Yes

Maybe it was a public acceptance of a marriage proposal.

Maybe it was this city making its intentions known to the world.

By Eboo Patel | March 16, 2008; 9:59 PM ET | Category: The Faith Divide Save & Share:
Previous: The Spell of Islamophobia | Next: Faith and Interfaith in New Orleans

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ремонт двигателей зил На автомобилях, где на коробку передач установлена коробка отбора мощности, масло в коробку передач можно заливать через заливное отверстие в коробке отбора мощности до контрольного отверстия в картере коробки передач.

Возможные неисправности

Ниже приведены основные неисправности реверсивной коробки отбора мощности, причины, их вызывающие, и способы устранения.

1. Появление осевого перемещния

При появлении осевого перемещения главного вала следует снять коробку отбора мощности и отрегулировать затяжку шариковых подшипников уменьшением толщины набора уплотнитель-ных прокладок, расположенных под крышкой переднего подшипника, или подтягиванием болтов крепления крышек подшипников. Подшипники отрегулированы правильно, если вал свободно проворачивается от руки и не имеет ощутимого осевого зазора при затянутых болтах крепления крышек подшипников.

2. Повышенный шум

Повышенный шум в коробке отбор а мощности может быть также связан с увеличенным износом или разрушением ее деталей. Такие детали необходимо заменить.

Односкоростная коробка отбора мощности (KOM-I)

На верхний люк раздаточной коробки автомобиля ЗИЛ-131Н

может устанавливаться односкоростная коробка отбора мощности ( 3.22). При этом предусматривается возможность отбора мощности от трансмиссии для привода различных специальных агрегатов, применяемых потребителем при использовании шасси автомобиля в качестве транспортной базы.

Максимальная отбираемая мощность не должна превышать 44 кВт, а максимальный допустимый крутящий момент на выходном валу - 300 Н-м. Односкоростная коробка отбора мощности предназначена для кратковременной работы. Длительность непрерывной работы KOM-I зависит от фактической отбираемой мощности и в каждом конкретном случае проверяется предварительными испытаниями.

Передаточное число односкоростной коробки отбора мощности на прямой передаче в коробке передач и с учетом колеса раздаточной коробки равно 0,76.

Односкоростная коробка отбора мощности смонтирована в литом чугунном картере, в котором установлены неподвижная ось и выходной вал. Неподвижная ось запрессована в отверстия в стенках картера и зафиксирована стопорной пластиной с болтом. На

оси установлены два роликовых подшипника, на которых вращается склепанный из двух зубчатых венцов блок зубчатых колес. Косозубый зубчатый венец находится в постоянном зацеплении с шестерней первичного вала раздаточной коробки.

Прямозубый зубчатый венец предназначен для зацепления с зубчатым колесом выходного вала. Между торцами ступицы блока зубчатых колес и опорными бобышками картера установлены опорные шайбы, уменьшающие изнашивание бобышек картера. В оси выполнены осевое и радиальные отверстия для подвода смазочного материала из специального кармана картера к роликовым подшипникам. Осевое отверстие снаружи закрыто конической пробкой.

Выходной вал установлен на двух шариковых подшипниках. По шлицам в средней части вала перемещается колесо, венец которого входит в зацепление с прямозубым зубчатым венцом блока зубчатых колес. Между шлицевой частью вала и подшипником установлена распорная втулка. Выходной вал фиксируется к подшипнику и затягивается гайкой, застопоренной вдавливанием в паз вала. На наружном шлицевом конце вала установлен фланец, также закрепленный гайкой. Подшипники закрыты крышками с уплотнительными прокладками. В крышке, закрывающей фланец, имеется уплотнительная манжета, предохраняющая от течи масла из коробки отбора мощности и попадания грязи в нее.

Коробка отбора мощности включается вилкой, установленной на штоке и зафиксированной болтом, который застопорен проволокой. Шток перемещается пневмокамерой, управление которой электропневматическое.

В картере коробки отбора мощности имеется люк, через который закрепляется установочный болт вилки включения и может производиться осмотр. Люк закрыт крышкой с размещенным предохранительным клапаном. Для исключения течи масла клапан защищен от прямого его попадания щитком.

Коробка отбора мощности управляется переключателем, установленным в кабине водителя. Левое положение переключателя соответствует выключенному положению, а правое - включенному. Переключатель размыкает и замыкает цепь управления реле электромагнита привода пневмоклапана (см. 3.19; 3.20). Реле смонтировано на щите двигателя в подкапотном пространстве и обеспечивает управление электроснабжением электромагнита.

Для включения коробки отбора мощности переключатель устанавливают в правое положение "Включено", при этом реле срабатывает и замыкает цепь электроснабжения электромагнита клапана. Сердечник электромагнита втягивается и нажимает на шток, который открывает впускной клапан. Воздух из тормозного крана через впускной клапан поступает в камеру включения и, воздействуя на мембрану, перемещает шток. В корпусе камеры включения установлен выключатель сигнализатора. При перемещении штока на включение коробки отбора мощности контакты выключателя замыкаются и загорается сигнализатор красного цвета в кабине автомобиля.

Для выключения коробки отбора мощности переключатель надо установить в левое положение "Выключено". При этом реле размыкает цепь электроснабжения электромагнита клапана, впускной клапан закрывается и подача воздуха в пнев-мокамеру прекращается. Возвратная пружина в камере перемещает шток с вилкой в исходное положение. Колесо выходного вала выходит из зацепления, и коробка отбора мощности выключается; контакты выключателя сигнализатора размыкаются, и сигнализатор

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While the skills old to earn them are certainly arousing, it is the unrevealed configuration underneath that transforms the bracelets from sheer jewelry into stories.
In this anyhow, the copper old for the bracelets was in reality the outer jacket of a 155mm artillery expend — the remnants of war, unfortunately, that are as much a by of Cambodia's days of yore as Angkor Wat.
What has happened here has a warm-hearted of gift to its witless beauty. Etching the patterns of the primeval last alters the figurative patterns of Cambodia's more current and unlucky prior into something sure: skills and incomes for victims of genocidal conflict.
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Posted by: beervemub | June 5, 2008 2:34 AM
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While the skills old to change them are certainly arousing, it is the unrevealed configuration lower down that transforms the bracelets from pure and witless jewelry into stories.
In this anyhow, the copper old for the bracelets was as a matter of fact the outer jacket of a 155mm artillery hull — the remnants of war, unfortunately, that are as much a by of Cambodia's days of yore as Angkor Wat.
What has happened here has a sort of gift to its bovine beauty. Etching the patterns of the Ogygian prior alters the figurative patterns of Cambodia's more just out and upsetting prior into something reliable: skills and incomes for victims of genocidal conflict.
senks

Posted by: beervemub | June 3, 2008 6:28 PM
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Hi!
Without taking into account the issue of establishing a stone by God, which he won't be able to pick up, how do you think, may be something in this world, what can God never see?

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Posted by: hodwiskChoith | April 14, 2008 10:56 PM
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As an ex-patriate, pre-Katrina New Orleanian, I was moved by Eboo's essay.

By the way, although others may have pointed it out,

"And
Yes
I said
Yes
I will
Yes"

is the end of Molly Bloom's 60 page run-on sentence orgasmic soliliquoy from James Joyce's Ulysses -- a fitting charter for loving a city.

Posted by: Stephen Duplantier | March 22, 2008 3:56 PM
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Gee, Jerusalem is the cause of so much bloodshed. Let's just bulldoze it and move it somewhere else.

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 18, 2008 1:59 PM
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Worried,

You are off the mark. If I were to write a best-selling book and make a cool ten million, everyone would be the better for it. Me, because of that cool ten large, my readers because of their literary transformation.

Concentrated wealth is not bad, it's good. It allows for productivity on a scale, and with a clarity of vision, that simply isn't possible without it. The wonders of the modern world are almost entirely made possible by the concentration of wealth. Concentrated wealth, by and large, is created, not taken from others.

That said, exploitation of desparate circumstances is a real problem, and legal structures should be in place to provide a living wage, prohibit child labor, require safe working conditions and protect the environment.

In addition, we should be mindful about what kind of value is being produced by all the effort expended in industrial enterprises. Money spend on schools, roads, hospitals and other infrastructure will return the cost of construction many times over. Money spent on military equipment used for empire building or unnecessary war is not only wasted, but destroys the value invested in the societies laid waste by the weaponry. I'm sure we'd all feel warm and fuzzy about Lockheed-Martin if they were known as the international solar-powered school and hospital corporation.

The pie has been growing since the stone age. Concentrated wealth has been the engine of that growth. What is needed is for democratic institutions to keep up. The economy is international now. Democracy must become international now too. All foreign action is, by definition, tyrrany. Our legal institutions must include all. The idea of "foreigner" must fade into the past.

Posted by: Bunko Squad | March 18, 2008 1:32 PM
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Don’t believe one optimistic word from any public figure about the economy or humanity in general. They are all part of the problem. Its like a game of Monopoly. In America, the richest 1% now hold 1/2 OF ALL UNITED STATES WEALTH. Unlike ‘lesser’ estimates, this includes all stocks, bonds, cash, and material assets held by America’s richest 1%. Even that filthy pig Oprah acknowledged that it was at about 50% in 2006. Naturally, she put her own ‘humanitarian’ spin on it. Calling attention to her own ‘good will’. WHAT A DISGUSTING HYPOCRITE SLOB. THE RICHEST 1% HAVE LITERALLY MADE WORLD PROSPERITY ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE. Don’t fall for any of their ‘humanitarian’ CRAP. ITS A SHAM. THESE PEOPLE ARE CAUSING THE SAME PROBLEMS THEY PRETEND TO CARE ABOUT. Ask any professor of economics. Money does not grow on trees. The government can’t just print up more on a whim. At any given time, there is a relative limit to the wealth within ANY economy of ANY size. So when too much wealth accumulates at the top, the middle class slip further into debt and the lower class further into poverty. A similar rule applies worldwide. The world’s richest 1% now own over 40% of ALL WORLD WEALTH. This is EVEN AFTER you account for all of this ‘good will’ ‘humanitarian’ BS from celebrities and executives. ITS A SHAM. As they get richer and richer, less wealth is left circulating beneath them. This is the single greatest underlying cause for the current US recession. The middle class can no longer afford to sustain their share of the economy. Their wealth has been gradually transfered to the richest 1%. One way or another, we suffer because of their incredible greed. We are talking about TRILLIONS of dollars which have been transfered FROM US TO THEM. All over a period of about 27 years. Thats Reaganomics for you. The wealth does not ‘trickle down’ as we were told it would. It just accumulates at the top. Shrinking the middle class and expanding the lower class. Causing a domino effect of socio-economic problems. But the rich will never stop. They just keep getting richer. Leaving even less of the pie for the other 99% of us to share. At the same time, they throw back a few tax deductible crumbs and call themselves ‘humanitarians’. Cashing in on the PR and getting even richer the following year. IT CAN’T WORK THIS WAY. Their bogus efforts to make the world a better place can not possibly succeed. Any 'humanitarian' progress made in one area will be lost in another. EVERY SINGLE TIME. IT ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT WORK THIS WAY. This is going to end just like a game of Monopoly. The current US recession will drag on for years and lead into the worst US depression of all time. The richest 1% will live like royalty while the rest of us fight over jobs, food, and gasoline. So don’t fall for any of this PR CRAP from Hollywood, Pro Sports, and Wall Street PIGS. ITS A SHAM. Remember: They are filthy rich EVEN AFTER their tax deductible contributions. Greedy pigs. Now, we are headed for the worst economic and cultural crisis of all time. Crime, poverty, and suicide will skyrocket. SEND A “THANK YOU” NOTE TO YOUR FAVORITE MILLIONAIRE. ITS THEIR FAULT. I’m not discounting other factors like China, sub-prime, or gas prices. But all of those factors combined still pale in comparison to that HUGE transfer of wealth to the rich. Anyway, those other factors are all related and further aggrivated because of GREED. If it weren’t for the OBSCENE distribution of wealth within our country, there never would have been such a market for sub-prime to begin with. Which by the way, was another trick whipped up by greedy bankers and executives. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. The credit industry has been ENDORSED by people like Oprah Winfrey, Ellen DeGenerous, Dr Phil, and many other celebrities. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. Now, there are commercial ties between nearly every industry and every public figure. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. So don’t fall for their ‘good will’ BS. ITS A LIE. If you fall for it, then you’re a fool. If you see any real difference between the moral character of a celebrity, politician, attorney, or executive, then you’re a fool. No offense fellow citizens. But we have been mislead by nearly every public figure. WAKE UP PEOPLE. THEIR GOAL IS TO WIN THE GAME. The 1% club will always say or do whatever it takes to get as rich as possible. Without the slightest regard for anything or anyone but themselves. Reaganomics. Their idea. Loans from China. Their idea. NAFTA. Their idea. Outsourcing. Their idea. Sub-prime. Their idea. High energy prices. Their idea. Obscene health care charges. Their idea. The commercial lobbyist. Their idea. The multi-million dollar lawsuit. Their idea. The multi-million dollar endorsement deal. Their idea. $200 cell phone bills. Their idea. $200 basketball shoes. Their idea. $30 late fees. Their idea. $30 NSF fees. Their idea. $20 DVDs. Their idea. Subliminal advertising. Their idea. Brainwash plots on TV. Their idea. Vioxx, and Celebrex. Their idea. The MASSIVE campaign to turn every American into a brainwashed, credit card, pharmaceutical, love-sick, celebrity junkie. Their idea. All of the above shrink the middle class, concentrate the world’s wealth and resources, create a dominoe effect of socio-economic problems, and wreak havok on society. All of which have been CREATED AND ENDORSED by celebrities, athletes, executives, entrepreneurs, attorneys, and politicians. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. So don’t fall for any of their ‘good will’ ‘humanitarian’ BS. ITS A SHAM. NOTHING BUT TAX DEDUCTIBLE PR CRAP. In many cases, the 'charitable' contribution is almost entirely offset. Not to mention the opportunity to plug their name, image, product, and 'good will' all at once. IT MAKES THEM RICHER. These filthy pigs even have the nerve to throw a fit and spin up a misleading defense with regard to 'federal tax revenue'. ITS A SHAM. THEY SCREWED UP THE EQUATION TO BEGIN WITH. If the middle and lower classes had a greater share of the pie, they could easily cover a greater share of the federal tax revenue. They are held down in many ways because of greed. Wages remain stagnant for millions because the executives, celebrities, athletes, attorneys, and entrepreneurs, are paid millions. They over-sell, over-charge, under-pay, outsource, cut jobs, and benefits to increase their bottom line. As their profits rise, so do the stock values. Which are owned primarily by the richest 5%. As more United States wealth rises to the top, the middle and lower classes inevitably suffer. This reduces the potential tax reveue drawn from those brackets. At the same time, it wreaks havok on middle and lower class communities and increases the need for financial aid. Not to mention the spike in crime because of it. There is a dominoe effect to consider. IT CAN'T WORK THIS WAY. But our leaders refuse to acknowledge this. Instead they come up with one trick after another to milk the system and screw the majority. These decisions are heavily influensed by the 1% club. Every year, billions of federal tax dollars are diverted behind the scenes back to the rich and their respective industries. Loans from China have been necessary to compensate in part, for the red ink and multi-trillion dollar transfer of wealth to the rich. At the same time, the feds have been pushing more financial burden onto the states who push them lower onto the cities. Again, the hardship is felt more by the majority and less by the 1% club. The rich prefer to live in exclusive areas or upper class communities. They get the best of everything. Reliable city services, new schools, freshly paved roads, upscale parks, ect. The middle and lower class communities get little or nothing without a local tax increase. Which, they usually can't afford. So the red ink flows followed by service cuts and lay-offs. All because of the OBSCENE distribution of bottom line wealth in this country. So when people forgive the rich for their incredible greed and then praise them for paying a greater share of the FEDERAL income taxes, its like nails on a chalk board. I can not accept any theory that our economy would suffer in any way with a more reasonable distribution of wealth. Afterall, it was more reasonable 30 years ago. Before Reaganomics came along. Before GREED became such an epidemic. Before we had an army of over-paid executives, bankers, celebrities, athletes, attorneys, investors, entrepreneurs, developers, and sold-out politicians to kiss their asses. As a nation, we were in much better shape. Strong middle class, free and clear assets, lower crime rate, more widespread prosperity, stable job market, lower deficit, ect. Our economy as a whole was much more stable and prosperous for the majority. WITHOUT LOANS FROM CHINA. Now, we have a more obscene distribution of bottom line wealth than ever before. We have a sold-out government, crumbling infrastructure, energy crisis, home forclosure epidemic, 13 figure national deficit, and 12 figure annual shortfall. The cost of living is higher than ever before. Most people can't even afford basic health care. ALL BECAUSE OF GREED. I really don't blame the 2nd -5th percentiles in general. No economy could ever function without some reasonable scale of personal wealth and income. But it can't be allowed to run wild like a mad dog. ALBERT EINSTEIN TRIED TO MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. UNBRIDLED CAPITALISM ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT WORK. TOP HEAVY ECONOMIES ALWAYS COLLAPSE. Bottom line: The richest 1% will soon tank the largest economy in the world. It will be like nothing we’ve ever seen before. The American dream will be shattered. and thats just the beginning. Greed will eventually tank every major economy in the world. Causing millions to suffer and die. Oprah, Angelina, Brad, Bono, and Bill are not part of the solution. They are part of the problem. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A MULTI-MILLIONAIRE HUMANITARIAN. EXTREME WEALTH MAKES WORLD PROSPERITY ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE. WITHOUT WORLD PROSPERITY, THERE WILL NEVER BE WORLD PEACE OR ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE. GREED KILLS. IT WILL BE OUR DOWNFALL. Of course, the rich will throw a fit and call me a madman.. Of course, they will jump to small minded conclusions about 'jealousy', 'envy', or 'socialism'. Of course, their ignorant fans will do the same. You have to expect that. But I speak the truth. If you don’t believe me, then copy this entry and run it by any professor of economics or socio-economics. Then tell a friend. Call the local radio station. Re-post this entry or put it in your own words. Be one of the first to predict the worst economic and cultural crisis of all time and explain its cause. WE ARE IN BIG TROUBLE.

Posted by: worried | March 18, 2008 1:09 PM
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God had nothing to do with the flooding of New Orleans. The levee failures were all man's doing. The drowning of the Lower 9th ward was caused by a failure of a man-made navigble waterway...
For all those that say to us "don't rebuild," the American frontier closed in the late 1800s. You can't just throw things away and move on any more... you have to be responsible for what you have.

You know, I never hear anyone say "Gee, Jerusalem is the cause of so much bloodshed. Let's just bulldoze it and move it somewhere else."

Posted by: RMarigny | March 18, 2008 12:02 PM
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To CCNL,

You are correct but apparently you have not seen the well-promulgated On Faith flaw synopsis of the five major religions:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a mythical character as was Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2a. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

2b. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds these acts of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

4. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."

The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

5. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."
"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 18, 2008 11:41 AM
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Explain how the "4 flaws of Islam" as you list are any different than the flaw in Christianity. Because to me they look exactly the same. Allow me some points:

"1. Belief in "pretty/ugly wingie thingies"." Um...Christians believe in angels too.

"2. Belief that an hallucinating, illiterate Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the hot "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words and resultant laws now listed in the koran." Right because I'm sure the Virgin Mary could read but she spoke to Gabriel too. Also, there's a bit of anti-female words in The Bible too. Just check out all that 'woman should be subservient to the man' stuff in there.

"3. That Sunnis are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life. And Shiites think the same way about Sunnis." Catholics v. Protestants. Reference: War of the Roses, the 30 Years War, the 100 Years War.

"4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7, 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites gives significant credence that greed, hate, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of rape, adultery, lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of hatred, anger and greed."
The Bible and Catholics v. Protestants v. Jews all over again. And looking at our not so distant history the use of the Bible to condone slavery. Repeatedly. Oh and that many men in the Bible had multiple wives. This is not just an Islam thing.

Posted by: to CCNL | March 18, 2008 11:21 AM
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Perspective,

A trillion dollars is a bargain considering what nuclear war vs Iran and North Korea would cost. Teddy's "Carry a Big (now expensive) Stick" still holds today.

from :

http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/24/news/economy/cbo_testimony/index.htm

" The wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and anti terrorist efforts abroad could cost the country $2.4 trillion over the next ten years, according to a report Wednesday.

The money, over 70 percent of which would go to support operations in Iraq, includes the estimated $600 billion spent since 2001, Congressional Budget Office Director Peter Orszag said in testimony before the House Budget Committee. That estimate includes projected interest, since the government is borrowing most of the funds required.

The $2.4 trillion would pay to keep 75,000 troops deployed overseas from 2013 to 2017. About 210,000 troops are currently deployed. It does not include the Pentagon's normal spending, which in 2007 is estimated to be about $450 billion.

And it is Allah (and his buddy Mo) and his Sunni vs. Shiite 800 year blood feud that are keeping us in Iraq. Iran's (more Allah) continued war rhetoric is also not helping the Peace efforts nor our efforts to reduce defense spending.

And the tens of thousands of dead and maimed in Iraq are due to this same bloody feud. (4000 US troops and 82,109 – 89,605 Iraqi civilians http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ )

And just think a simple, inexpensive deflawing of Islam would solve all these problems. In case you forgot, here again are the four major flaws/errors in Islam:

1. Belief in "pretty/ugly wingie thingies".

2. Belief that an hallucinating, illiterate Arab did actually talk to the "pretty Gabriel" in the hot "Gabe" cave and therein received the warmongering and anti-female words and resultant laws now listed in the koran.

3. That Sunnis are superior to Shiites in all aspects of life. And Shiites think the same way about Sunnis.

4. That Islam is perfect and the koran inherently condones no sin even though the 24/7, 800 year-old blood feud between Sunnis and Shiites gives significant credence that greed, hate, suicides, assassinations, maiming, and murder are condoned by the koran. Having multiple wives also gives significant credence to the sins of rape, adultery, lust and polygamy. The condoned treatment of these wives gives credence that the koran allows the sins of hatred, anger and greed.

Or we could simply send Allah a bill for the trillion. His oil reserves in Iraq (112 billion barrels) at $100/barrel should cover it nicely.

I wonder how much oil there is under New Orleans????

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 18, 2008 10:25 AM
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To those that say my city should not be rebuilt:

Forgetaboutit! We are rebuilding. At least 25,000 homeowners have already rebuilt and reinhabited their homes in the flood zones.

Most of our homeowners had only two options. 1) rebuild as best we can, as high as we can, with whatever funds we can scrape together on the property we already own, or 2) default on our mortgages, go bankrupt and move somewhere safer and start over from scratch - with bad credit.

Which option would you choose? No one has offered us a better choice and this has been our families' home for about 300 years. Add to that the hatred we encounter everywhere else compounded by the ignorance about our situation and going home to New Orleans is obviously our best choice.

If you feel we shouldn't be allowed to rebuild, that our property rights should be denied, then you should lobby to force South Louisiana to succeed from the nation.

If you feel New Orleans and South Louisiana need not be rebuilt, I suggest we conduct an expirement: Close the Port of New Orleans and all of the coastal Louisiana ports that service the offshore oil and gas industry, close the valves on all of the pipelines that criss cross So. LA, close all of the refineries and chemical plants and have us stop fishing. Then we would find out if NOLA should be inhabited.

Crescent City Ray

Posted by: Crescent City Ray | March 18, 2008 9:45 AM
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Let's see - a hundred billion $$ to re-build New Oreans or 1 trillion $$ to destroy Iraq?? Now
which really makes more sense???

The fact is, nothing but nothing has been well managed by this administration so I guess it's a moot point....

Of course, New Orleans was devastated by a natural disaster, whereas Iraq and it's tens of thousands of dead and wounded were perpetrated by American ingenuity......a big difference. We really outdid God on that one, didn't we??

Posted by: perspective | March 18, 2008 9:28 AM
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- belated thought -
Of course that's not even taking into account New Orlean's importance as a port city controlling the mouth of the Mississippi River which the US's most active waterway. San Fran is a port city. New York is a port city. Charleston is a port city. These are neccessary cities that let you live the life you lead so you don't have to farm your own food or make your own shoes/clothing. So they will be rebuilt out of neccessity.

Posted by: La to SC | March 18, 2008 8:36 AM
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CCNL -
So why bother to build any great cities? A great hurricane could easily hit and wipe out New York or Washington DC. Look at Charleston after Hurricane Hugo. San Fransisco and the entire state of California lie directly on the San Andreas fault. San Fran has been destroyed once and rebuilt, when the next one hits it will be rebuilt again. Your supposition of Hurricane X is unfounded and a fatally flawed (not to mention stupid) argument. Why bother to build cities in the plains states when they will just be destroyed by some future tornado. Look what just happened to Atlanta not even located in "tornado alley." Think of tornados striking Dallas, Omaha, Chicago. These are weather phenomenoms not unheard of and worried about by the citizens who reside in these cities. If one follows your point to its conclusion then you have effectivly banned us all back to pre-civilization wandering nomads escaping whatever natural disaster we come across like hunter-gatherer societies. New Orleans is a center of cultural birth, unique in the US and devastatingly injured after the hurricanes.

Posted by: La to Sc | March 18, 2008 8:28 AM
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Anon, Anon, Anon,

Hurricane X has never been to New Orleans either. When it visits, your history will cease to exist along with the lives of more citizens. And another $100 billion of our money will be washed away in the water and wind.

Citizens who want to live in proven weather danger zones should foot the bill. Ditto for citizens who live in active earth quake zones.

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 18, 2008 2:20 AM
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Anon, Anon, Anon,

Citizens who want to live in proven weather danger zones should foot the bill. Ditto for citizens who live in active earth quake zones.

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 18, 2008 2:19 AM
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Paterson and his wife, Michelle, acknowledged to the newspaper that they each had affairs but did not go into details.

Posted by: WHY | March 18, 2008 1:43 AM
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Brad Pitt has a org called Make it Right. They have hundreds of arcetects making designs for Green houses. They hope to have 150 of them built by the end of summer.

Built up on stilts, saving on electric and all green...this could be a model city...

terra

Posted by: Terra Gazelle | March 18, 2008 1:11 AM
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CCNL,

You have never been to New Orleans have you? Now when you go to New Orleans and walk in the Quarter. When you stop in Pat O'brians, sit in the court yard by the water fountain, listen to the jazz piano coming out of the Piano bar and feed pop corn to the pidgeons while you sip at a Hurricane....when you go to the General Store and get a Muffalotta...when you go to Cafe du Monte and have a cafe au lait and beignets...then go down Bourbonne and stop by Marioe Lavoux's VooDoo shop, make a wish and put a coin on her picture frame. Then go to the art galeries and the antique shops, then go to Antoine's, a restaurant that has operated here for 160 years. I went and saw Delta Burke and her husband there, the food is awesome. You do that and then be so cavilier about losing it. New Orleans is many layered, you lose one thing, you change it all.

More then 300 years of history. Buildings that were built when the french first got here. You can see the old slave auction..its a restraurant now. You can walk down Pirate alley, where the pirates would lay out there booty and sell it. Jean Lafitte's house. The Garden district and the antibellum homes.

No you have not been there. It's almost as stupid as the US Senator that said Move it.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 18, 2008 1:06 AM
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Arminius, (with some corrections)

The Netherlands' North Sea walls are hardly flawless. And the residents of New Orleans (1,337,726) can easily move to other locations in Lousiana/US that are above sea level. This is not easily done for the 16,570,613 residents of the Netherlands since the 60% country is below the sea level.

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4847805

"But often even the best-laid plans are no match for Mother Nature. In 1953, hundreds of miles of dikes along rivers gave way in a violent storm and the flooding killed nearly 2,000 people. "

Sure they rebuit the gates and dikes bigger and stronger but flawless, no.

Actually many Dutch blamed God for the 1953 catastrophe (sound familiar?). Based on these complaints, the famous contemporary Catholic theologian, Father Edward Schillebeeckx, noted the following:

from his book, Church: The Human Story of God,
Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover)

"Christians must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history.

"Nothing is determined in advance: in
nature there is chance and determinism; in the world of human activity there is possibility of free choices. Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings.

For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 18, 2008 12:47 AM
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Jazz is about freedom. Jazz is about the freedom to to take off on a theme...to improvise on it...to change it...try it this way and that way...to fly unbound by what is SUPPOSED-TO-BE...and do it your way...for better or worse...with the passion and excitement of discovering the new and the fresh.

It is, in a word, liberating.

Islam is none of these things. Its about conformism and straightjackets and doing only that which is permitted within certain narrow limits...it is about following rules that haven't changed in hundreds of years. It is about killing the spirit of self-expression and improvisation and about doing certain expected things at expected times in expected ways wearing accepted attire.

Islam is stale, stifling and rigid. Jazz is anything but.

Posted by: Jimbo | March 18, 2008 12:32 AM
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~~~∧ ----
~~(♣) \
~~ ]={}.])
~~(♣) /
~~~∨ ----

.......~~~~~~~~~~~~
...~~~~~....∨ -----___
.~~~~....(♦)...............\
~~~~~................]={|)...)
.~~~~....(♦).......___./
...~~~~~ ---∨-----
.......~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~^ ----
~~(o) \
~~ ]={} ) ))))ha Ha Ha Ha Ha..
~~(o) /
~~~ ----

Posted by: All that Jazz! | March 17, 2008 11:56 PM
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Well... Anyone feel a bit behind the curve theologically?

As JJ here demonstrates, it could always be worse. :)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 11:22 PM
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.......~~~~~~~~~~~~
...~~~~~....^ -----___
.~~~~....(o)...............\
~~~~~...............]={|)...)
.~~~~....(o).......___./
...~~~~~ ----------
.......~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: SS | March 17, 2008 10:39 PM
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...~~~~~....∧ -----___
.~~~~....(♦)...............\
~~~~~................]={|)...)..))h))e))l))l))o )♥)♥)♥)♥)♥
.~~~~....(♦).......___./
...~~~~~ ---∨-----

Posted by: Pharoah is Looking for MOZEUZ | March 17, 2008 10:35 PM
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.......~~~~~~~~~~~~
...~~~~~....∧ -----___
<~~~~....(♦)...............\
~~~~~................]={|)...)
<~~~~....(♦).......___./
...~~~~~ ---∨-----
.......~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 10:11 PM
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.......~~~~~~~~~~~~
...~~~~~....∧ -----___
.~~~~....(♦)...............\
~~~~~................]={|)...)
.~~~~....(♦).......___./
...~~~~~ ---∨-----
.......~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 9:42 PM
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Would you like some attention, JJ? Mr. Patel is trying to have a thread, here.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 9:15 PM
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And now I feel like someone discovered the graphics keys on the Apple IIe. :)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 9:03 PM
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♥J
♥♥O
♥♥♥Z
♥♥♥♥E
♥♥♥♥♥V
♥♥♥♥♥♥Z.us

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 8:58 PM
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∞ ∞ ∞ ∞

⊕ ⊕ ⊕ ⊕

Ξ Ξ Ξ Ξ Ξ Ξ

Ω Ω Ω Ω

† † † †

♠

♣

♥

♦

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 8:52 PM
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Btw, Arminius, I'm still looking in on the thread where we last spoke... the general hand-wringing about yet another sex scandal, frankly, bores me. :)

As for meeting your daughter, well, who knows. Turns out I'll be living not-so-far from a Waffle House fairly soon. ;)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 8:33 PM
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"If you found a friend in God
please ask them for direction
to the places they left the restless souls
to drown in their own damn'nation
under rooftops, in their back yards,"

Damnation? That's what *they* tell us, when they call it 'virtue' not to build up the levees.

Bush said, "No one could have known this would happen," and put his hand on a Bible.

He obviously hadn't been watching the Discovery Channel for the ten years previous.

It's not *damnation,* for all people in the Right tried to spin it that way.

Just the ocean, and all that implies, friend.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 8:24 PM
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New Orleans News Ladder:

Beautiful post! Great poem! You are a credit to that great city.

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 8:13 PM
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Paganplace,

You have touched upon something very profound there, IMHO: "Frankly, it utterly-humbles our pride in what we *think* we understand, as primates, often in denial of the world, through our clevernesses. How easily these things are taken away, yet we are all creatures who can reach out and touch all this magnificence.
I think it's important. About who we are. "

We are all in the Web of the Creator, and, oh Lord, can it be confusing. But we must keep trying, and seeking, as you and I do. We, and all living things, are of one blood, as the Indian Chief apparently said.

My daughter has an incredible gift of being able to get along with kids of all sorts - usually the younger ones, but teens also. It is a wonder to watch. She has been involved a lot in special Olympics. I myself always related better to teens. My house, until my kids went off to college, was always filled with kids, and I loved it.

Keep in touch.

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 8:09 PM
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I mean, yaknow?

It's kinda like Mr. Poop here points out for us.

I think Fundies are so fricking mortified about the idea we're apes cause they're poop-slinging *terrified* someone will actually take note of the family resemblance.

*tougching forehead* Yes, it's that obvious.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 8:08 PM
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Hey, thanks for that great post and thank you very much for ending up on Frenchman Street, my neighborhood before the levees failed.
You should know that my faith died during the crucifixion of New Orleans and you go a long way towards healing that shot in the dark.
That poem you sited above is from one of the NOLA Rising offerings http://nolarising.blogspot.com/
It is from a scene but you must discover the source.

Here is a lyric of my own for you:

If you found a friend in God
please ask them for direction
to the places they left the restless souls
to drown in their own damn'nation
under rooftops, in their back yards,
behind the family sofas...
while their Grand Mas banged against the walls
abandonded in Saint Rita's.
~~I don't really care what they say.
~~I heard it all before this breech of faith.
~~You may think you know what it means...
~~to bet your soul...
~~and find your self loosing!

Put up your suits and come on home, Noble Mon.
Bruce
editor~New Orleans News Ladder
http://noladder.blogspot.com/

Posted by: New Orleans News Ladder | March 17, 2008 8:06 PM
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My kudos to your daughter, though, Arminius: I don't mind saying that sort of thing is way outside my comfort zone. It scares me. It bothers me. I'm not by nature comfy in situations I couldn't talk my way out of, never mind, really, adult male children.

When I was doing that work, it was mostly about trying to make then-prototypical communication boards with photographic images, ...this project involved being a caregiver, to some extent, but also being an ambassador from a world that so-bewildered them.... they don't ratiocinate, but what they see, they see *so clearly.*

I cried a lot, and the person who put me up to it really had to keep me on task. I can't even describe it.

How very different the simplest object can look to another human being, though. The way they can embrace a world they don't understand, not in the least.

Frankly, it utterly-humbles our pride in what we *think* we understand, as primates, often in denial of the world, through our clevernesses. How easily these things are taken away, yet we are all creatures who can reach out and touch all this magnificence.

I think it's important. About who we are.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 7:55 PM
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Paganplace, you said,

"Gods, Arminius, why is it that people who insist they have The One And Only Ultimate Answer To Eternity are always so *jammed up around bodily functions?* :)

And I had a huge belly laugh on that! Well done. I had puzzled about how to reply to that benighted anal-erotic, but you did it well. Not much good it will do, though, I suspect. Keep 'em coming.

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 7:30 PM
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"Pffft... oh, no more poop."

Umm, yes, autistic kids also kinda fixate on poop, too.

As long as it's established some of us prefer to look elsewhere than potty-training-shame for our theology?

Gods, Arminius, why is it that people who insist they have The One And Only Ultimate Answer To Eternity are always so *jammed up around bodily functions?* :)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 7:20 PM
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Paganplace,

You move me. My daughter, about to graduate from college, double majoring in dance and psychology, has worked with autistic kids, and loved it. There is a kinship there. I wish the two of you could meet.

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 7:14 PM
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Pffft... oh, no more poop.

Posted by: Pooper | March 17, 2008 7:03 PM
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Just so we know what level we're all on with you, JJ, I have taught fourteen-year old-boys with *raging autism* how to read ...classed as having the mental acuity of four-year olds, who had more consideration for others than you have shown here.

Do you register this?

People are trying to talk, here.

If you would like some help, you may *ask* for it.

If you think you have a revelation to convey, *you* figure out how to modulate it.

And that goes for all the OCD cases who won't let a Muslim speak, here.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 7:00 PM
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Ah, don't worry on it, Arminius. 'Whom Gods destroy,' and all that.

Just occasionally, I suppose, one must extend the invitation to be a human being, and all.

In a world where so many are terrorized by 'judgment,' it's no surprise that so many take the license of madness to places like JJ does, and far worse.

I mean, hey, if you're 'mad,' you're not acountable for what you do, in a world based nonetheless on 'judging' people, right?

Face to face, JJ. If I could look you in the eyes now, I would ask you to.

And I would say,

What is it you think you're doing, here, JJ? You spend an awful lot of time spamming like any pre-teen with a TRS-80 could.

What do you think you are doing? You keep wailing.

You keep making all this noise. Inconvenience a lot of people while venting your various phobias and bigotries, while claiming it's all in the name of something new.

But you don't tell us *why.* What you *want.*

Who are you, JJ? Who are you, *really?*

Photon Guy.

I'm obviously just some kind of 'Fagarina.'

You can tell me, ...Right?

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 6:52 PM
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I mean, it's true, JJ: Bible-wavers who try to rule my life based on whatever happens to be in *their* heads may as *well* be spamming with what you spam, but that message is well-since received.

If you would like to speak to the people here, JJ, understand that between every post here and life, there is another human being. People whose time you seem to have no consideration for when you spam.

You may come here and speak and learn, but if you think this is your playground to spam, then go in peace. Without delay.

Capiche?

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 6:39 PM
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Paganplace,

I just submitted a plea to get JJ's posts deleted. My plea was slammed, and not posted. Apparently the moderator is bewildered.

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 6:37 PM
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...Or, JJ, you could be a spammer who often post slurs whatever else anyone else trying to use these boards to communicate with might be trying to say....?

Do you realize?

No one cares what you spam, JJ. To you, none of us may as well be here, and you say nothing that even in the least implies you *read* what people say.

You just spam every board you can, because you can.

No one wants to martyr you, ...nbo one even *cares.*

You aren't conversing.

You're babbling.

At best.

You can do better.

No one wants to rip you off, JJ.

They don't want to read it *once,* never mind on every thread you can lay hands to.

Look around, 'Eclati-On.'

This place is not *for your spamming.*

Here, you are one person. Like anyone else.

Take it, listen, converse, or, by the Gods, *leave it.* Without ceremony.

Participate. Or. Go.

Already.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 6:34 PM
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"i" & WE have been deliberately discriminated against O.U.R. APOCALYPTARIAN FAiTh!

"i" Have bee Isolated via key-word-blocking. "i" have been Exiled & Vanquished & Robbed etcc, by WASHINGTON POST, NEWSWEEK, NY-POST, NY-TIMES, MSNBC, Channel 7 NYC et al!

"i", nor any Blogger, is allowed to spell (normaly) Horizontaly, on one Line , either:

S
H
I
L
O
H (which means Peace Bioblically) so WAPO is anti-Peace etc... AND

J
O
Z
E
V
Z (Try Typing me name & hit the "post" button & ye will be rejected/Sensored!?????

T
R
A
N
S
F
I
N
I
T
Y (The BOOK Of), yea, what are they hiding or running from? WHO IS BEHIND THIS WAPO???

E
C
L
A
T
A
R
I
A
N (like saying 'JU" or "Christian" or Hindu or "Muslom" now Forbidden to say or write [ECL][AT][ARi][AN].

AND afew other 'KEY" words!

SHAME WAPO, Shame Crying Shame:

NOTE: Soon "i" & et al, will sue them (their Prejudice & anti-Constitution & Anti-American) and PROVE O.U.R. Case in Federal Court in N.Y.C..

To start with: ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS, and with "PUNITIVE" Damages & Other remedy's, $$1,000,000,000 !!!

"i" divulged TOO MUCH InFO/HONESTY. Now they are trying to Steal The NEW SONG coming from all O.U.R. Old songs for Healing of Nations, WorlD PEace & Many more Prophetic, as Biblically Promised, good tidings, for Better never Worse etc...!

Guess it is a Dog Eat Dog World after all, especiall & Suprisingly at WAPO's "onfaith" (imagine blocking thoese words theirs??) "onreligion" & "postglobal" sites!

WE are Going to have OUR Day in Court Soon. I'll keep ye Posted ALL! Thank You for your Insight And Pattern Recognition ability's, CYBER FRIEND!

Note: They are in Outright Violation of FEDERAL LAW & ORDER(s)!!!!!!!!! Not un-JUSTLY their (O.U.R.) Sweet Sweet Holy Man Made "CONSTITUTION", aka THE-2nd-BIBLE!

"OUR-BOT" is 1st!

And HUMAN, not HUMATE made Bibles are 3rd in line of genuine importance, if any any more!

hence the "NEW-SONG"....

They have to correct their SIN's not "i" et al!

Eeeee Haaaaa!

< ?: +)/ Ya Ya Momma Poppa Monso Mono's!

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 6:20 PM
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Jozvzez,

You speak the truth. The screen is in place. All eyes are veiled. I will seek elsewhere, but I shall return. But you knew that already.

.......~~~~~~~~~~~~
...~~~~~....^ -----___
.~~~~....(o)...............\
~~~~~...............]={|)...)
.~~~~....(o).......___./
...~~~~~ ----------
.......~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: SS | March 17, 2008 6:12 PM
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Oh, btw, Arminius....I'm still looking in where we last spoke, if you'd like to continue the conversation. :) Frankly, the last two general topics bore me. :)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 6:11 PM
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ummm, JJ?

I dpon't supose you realize this is an *Internet message board,* or anything?

If you would like to be worried about publication rights, we'll *all* thank you *not to post it.*

You. Are. Not. That. Big.

Capiche?

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 6:06 PM
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ATT: SEEKING SEARCHER et al;

"i" have been deliberately discriminated against O.U.R. FAiTh!

"i" am, nor any Blogger is allowed to spell:

that is Horizontaly, on one Line , either:

S
H
I
L
O
H (which means Peace Bioblically) so WAPO is anti-Peace etc... AND

J
O
Z
E
V
Z (Try Typing me name & hit the "post" button & ye will be rejected/Sensored!?????

T
R
A
N
S
F
I
N
I
T
Y (The BOOK Of), yea, what are they hiding or running from? WHO IS BEHIND THIS WAPO???

E
C
L
A
T
A
R
I
A
N (like saying 'JU" or "Christian" or Hindu or "Muslom" now Forbidden to say or write [ECL][AT][ARi][AN].

AND afew other 'KEY" words!

SHAME WAPO, Shame Crying Shame:

NOTE: Soon "i" & et al, will sue them (their Prejudice & anti-Constitution & Anti-American) and PROVE O.U.R. Case in Federal Court in N.Y.C..

To start with: ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS, and with "PUNITIVE" Damages & Other remedy's, $$1,000,000,000 !!!

Guess it is a Dog Eat Dog World after all, especiall & Suprisingly at WAPO's "onfaith" (imagine blocking thoese words theirs??) "onreligion" & "postglobal" sites!

WE are Going to have OUR Day in Court Soon. I'll keep ye Posted ALL! Thank You for your Insight And Pattern Recognition ability's, CYBER FRIEND!

Eeeee Haaaaa!

< ?: +)/ Ya Ya Momma Poppa Monso Mono's!

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 6:03 PM
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"New Orleans is a place of magic. (magick?)"

Yes, it is.

As for what I like to call the 'Special K' in the spelling of magic, don't sweat it. It's something a lot of sincere people dutifully-append to the word, as Wiccan texts of the Seventies felt the need to distinguish between real magic and prestidigitation, ...which is not a going concern. ... it's traditional to some, but I only use it in terms of verbs, like, 'magicking up something' or 'Stop panicking!'

I spell 'Magic' just so: if nothing else, but to emphasize that the magic is *not* something separate from daily reality.

My general advice is that anyone gets spooled up about spelling it 'Magick' has either earned the right or needs to talk to someone like me to give em some perspective. :) None of this is your problem. You may say 'Magic.'

Pagans may choose a spelling, (I'll be the last to deny we love a good archaism,) but actually, getting wound up about the 'special K' is a sure sign of a noob in this day and age. :)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 5:57 PM
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Jozvzez,

I think you see what I see.

.......~~~~~~~~~~~~
...~~~~~....^ -----___
.~~~~....(o)...............\
~~~~~................]={|)...)
.~~~~....(o).......___./
...~~~~~ ----------
.......~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: Searcher | March 17, 2008 5:50 PM
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Paganplace,

The sea, indeed, must not be trifled with. It cannot be defeated, but, despite CCNL's whining, can be held back. And should be held back there. New Orleans is a place of magic. (magick?)

New Orleans is a Greek tragedy on an urban level The flaws of the feds are just short of criminal.

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 5:42 PM
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S
H
I
L
O
H

Harry Theriault

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 5:38 PM
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WE ARE AN "APOCALYPTARIAN NATION"

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 5:37 PM
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EBERU RACE

Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 5:34 PM
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*bright laughter.*

Hi, Arminius, btw. :)

Nah, though. I expect in my stint in the South, I may go and see New Orleans for myself, something a Wiccan priest I krespect a lot suggested long before Katrina, and Terra's near there.

What I've seen on television of the neighborhoods there would likely distress me, I know. Being a street-shamanic type, I know that each of these laces has been a living place, with people's lives each touching the spirits of the place.

I agree that 'below sea level' is no place to live *lightly,* though. The sea is not to be trifled with, good music or not: any Pagan knows this.

What happened there is a national shame. The rebuilding of it must be done with all manner of real perspective and awareness. There's a reason the old French Quarter survived more or less intact, where as what the 'free market' built basically got hosed.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 5:29 PM
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Man Cat, you said:

If music is a language- then jazz is poetry.

And you nailed it. Thanks for the additional links. All bookmarked. Amazing, and moving, that in death, the joy of life goes marching on.

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 5:12 PM
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Paganplace,

Point taken. Ouch!

Posted by: Mullah of Jazz | March 17, 2008 5:08 PM
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Well, Pooper. I'll thank you for the succinctness,if not the anal-expressiveness. :)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 5:05 PM
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More poop.

Posted by: Pooper | March 17, 2008 5:02 PM
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"There is no horn section in Islam Improv Jazz. Jews are the ones with the horns, or didn't you know?"

Hey, I'm Pagan, don't try and tell me about horns. :)

"Shooby doo-bop-be-bop-bo!"

But who put the 'Bomp' in the bomp-a-bomp-abomp?' :)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 5:02 PM
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Paganplace [INFIDEL!],

There is no horn section in Islam Improv Jazz. Jews are the ones with the horns, or didn't you know?

Shooby doo-bop-be-bop-bo!

Posted by: Mullah of Jazz | March 17, 2008 4:55 PM
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Actually, the sign is the last words of James Joyce Ulysses. If you looked closely at the sign its got NoLaRising on it, part of a grass roots public art movement posting artworks on poles all around town.

Scott Cowen is not the best model of the rebirth of New Orleans; more of the model of a carpet bagger come down to tell us po' folks how to straighten up our lives.

I think you your last thought, about the place of jazz in your life, is very close to an understanding of the soul of New Orleans.

Mark Folse
http://toulousestreet.wordpress.com

Posted by: Mark Folse | March 17, 2008 4:54 PM
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Ok... I admit I'd like some elucidation on the notion 'Islam is Jazz' myself, (I mean, really, Jazz? Love you dear, Mr. Patel, but I'm not seeing the syncopation, never mind some improv in the horn section, here.' )

Still, 'Mulla,' somehow I'm getting the idea that actual Islam isn't where you got your little portrayal, there.

I mean, anyone saying 'Islam is jazz' may as well be saying, 'Jesus rocks,' ...but... Absent actual tunes, could we try and not take the Crusades and Jihads into such holy realms? :)

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 4:47 PM
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If music is a language- then jazz is poetry.

It is American-born: individual, independent, and free-thinking..

Thanks for listening, Arminius. I hope you did the "slow drag" -a dance only the locals really know.

Musician Kerwin James passed last October. God is still in the midst of New Orleans and he was sent home with much love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhiKoHSjm8Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CUkxK432DM&feature=related

Posted by: Man Cat | March 17, 2008 4:47 PM
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Jozvozvz,

I went to your link. You're really on to something there, buckaroo. Yee haw!

~~~~~~~~~~~~
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~~~~~~~~~~~~

Posted by: Seeking Searcher | March 17, 2008 4:46 PM
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Hey Cool Cat Eboo,

Let me lay this riff down on top of your main groove. It's like, Islam improv, dig:

"Ellis Marsalis – the patriarch [DEATH TO THE FALSE PROPHET!] of the first family of jazz – was holding court [DEATH TO THE NON-SHARIA COURT!] across the street. A reggae band was three doors down [DEATH TO THE INFIDEL MUSICIANS!]. A girl wearing a housewife’s dress [200 LASHES FOR IMMODESTY!] was on the porch [DEATH BY STONING FOR BEING UNACCOMPANIED BY A MALE FAMILY MEMBER! BUT RAPE HER FIRST, TO MAKE SURE SHE'S NOT A VIRGIN!] of the closed coffee shop singing Loretta Lynn songs [DEATH TO HER DEAD BODY FOR TEMPTING MEN WITH HER DEAD VOICE!] . Att the Electric Ladyland Tattoo Parlor [BURN DOWN THE HOUSE OF GRAVEN IMAGES ON FLESH! THE VANITY! THE DEBASEMENT!], a guy with quarter-size holes in his earlobes [DEATH BY BEHEADING TO THE IDOLATOR!] was cleaning the African mask [BURN THE GRAVEN IMAGE AND MORE DEATH TO THE PERFORATED DEAD GRAVEN IDOLATOR!] on the wall with a three-foot feather duster, paying careful attention to each centimeter. I guess he didn’t want the spirit [DEATH, DEATH AND MORE DEATH TO THE APOSTATES!!!] to feel slighted."

Well, I guess you're right, Eboo. Islam really IS jazz. Cool.

Posted by: Mulla of Jazz | March 17, 2008 4:29 PM
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And, was that satire, 'Think Straight?'

It's so hard to tell, these days.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 4:27 PM
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I dunno, 'Isatool.'

Mr. Patel seems to me like someone doing his level best to make better all the things you obsess about being so horrible about his tribe.

You're so worried about nasty Islamic fundamentalists, why don't you go *find* one and take issue, instead of shouting down *this* man, who wants to honor our American ways, and tirelessly puts up with the likes of yourself?

You're all spooled up about his religion, and Islamic nationalism.

Let's talk about our *American* nation.

We treat people of *all* religions with honor, and we stand up for liberty for *all.*

If we don't, there's no America to lose.

Period.

Muslims do not have some magic power to make more Muslims of you or your neighbors, ...they are people. And in Mr. Patel's case, as so many others, our fellow Americans.

Get that through your head.

And, frankly, you know what really kind of did it for me about New Orleans?

There's these rather whimsical guys on a BBC show that's ostensibly about cars... And they went to New Orleans, driving through, nearly getting lynched by rednecks, and then seeing the devastation, and they were like, "America, how do you sleep every night these past years knowing *this* is in your back yard?"

Of course the church they donated the cars they used in the show to turned around and tried to sue them for big bucks cause they got the model year of a donated car wrong.

But, hey, Isatool:

If all you can do is insult a man for being Muslim, to use one of their terms: "You're bloody useless."

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 4:21 PM
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George Bush is the greatest American this country has ever seen. Instead of cry-babying about lack of this and that, you should ask yourself why the resources aren't available. It's because of Iraq, you ninnies. It's because George Bush is over there fighting the good fight, getting those weapons of mass destruction away from all those Al Qaeda terrorists that destroyed New York, the Pentagon and Pennsylvania. Yes, Pennsylvania. How soon you forget. So if you're going to lay blame for New Orleans, lay it on Osama Bin Laden. Don't blame God.

Posted by: Think Straight, Pansies | March 17, 2008 4:14 PM
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Man Cat:

A thousand thanks for the links! I was cheering and dancing on the first, and deeply moved on the second. New Orleans! Where else can one find this music? Nowhere. That city is a cultural icon, almost a holy city, in the history of music. Anyone who says otherwise has the soul of a goat.

The best concert I ever was privileged to attend was Dave Brubeck and the gang, paired with a symphony orchestra. To hear the master himself play 'Take Five' was simply overwhelming. And at one point, there was Dave, at the piano, with his solo going. The entire orchestra was waiting for the right time to pitch in. So, when the time came, and the orchestra got ready, all violin bows poised.... old Dave gets a huge, huge grin, and spins off on glorious improvisations, to the thrill of the audience. And I was close enough to see the first violinist's face getting redder and redder. What a moment!

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 4:10 PM
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Eboo is a tool.

A stain.

A stooge.

A dupe.

A dope.

A shill.

A pill.

A mule.

A fool.

A tool.

Thank you. Thank you very much. I'll be here all week.

Posted by: Eboo is a Tool | March 17, 2008 4:04 PM
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"He responded, “Eboo, Islam is jazz). "

Then both of you wrong. Islam bans drinking, women in public, pork ribs, music and singing. All of which if taken out of the equasion would make New Orleans city I would never want to go to.

Posted by: Arif | March 17, 2008 3:58 PM
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I've never been to New Orleans, and I don't plan on going any time soon. The whole thing stinks, if you ask me. To high Heaven. What do we want with all those underwater Frenchies anyway, shrimp etoufee? Who needs it? It's just a bunch of filthy bugs. Time was, when a man would pick up and move on. No point in wallowing. What are they trying to accomplish, anyway? I'm not their Mama, and I don't plan on starting anytime soon. If you ask me, they should thank their lucky stars they still have an ass to crap out of. It sure wasn't like this in WWII.

Posted by: Mr. Know-It-All | March 17, 2008 3:56 PM
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Arminius,

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4847805

"But often even the best-laid plans are no match for Mother Nature. In 1953, hundreds of miles of dikes along rivers gave way in a violent storm and the flooding killed nearly 2,000 people. "

Sure they rebuit the gates and dikes bigger and stronger but flawless, no.

Actually many Dutch blamed God for the 1953 catastrophe (sound familiar?). Based on these complaints, the famous contemporary Catholic theologian, Father Edward Schillebeekx, noted the following:

from his book, Church: The Human Story of God,
Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover)

"Christians must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history.

For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 17, 2008 3:54 PM
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Posted by: Anonymous | March 17, 2008 3:35 PM
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"Islam is jazz"?

Someone forgot to tell Habib Moftah Bushehri.

Here is some REAL New Orleans Jazz:

New Orleans Jam Session 1958 Just A Closer Walk/When the Saints Go Marching In

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEP2mFl3ajE

The Funeral of Paul Barbarin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05WCrH-kCgA

Posted by: Man Cat | March 17, 2008 3:30 PM
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Well, Arminius, I would say that there's certainly admirable spirit in the determination to rebuild. You hit upon the key bit, though: If there's to be real rebuilding, it must be done *smart,* and that means planning, and actually, this time, not skimping on the protections.

It is, however, a chance to rebuild a city *properly,* as opposed to the cars-and-cheap-gas-and-money-based system the city originally grew up into.

Takes more than spirit. Must be played smart.

Posted by: Paganplace | March 17, 2008 3:22 PM
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It's about time somebody brought God back to New Orleans. Gonna turn it into an Islamic city? Good place to do it -start out under water rather than wait for God to again cleanse the earth of sinners with another great flood.

Fr Murphy's law says that anything that can happen once can and it will happen again too. The highway patrolman pulled Fr Murphy over. He noticed the smell of alcohol on his breath and noticed an empty wine bottle inside the car.

"So you've been drinkin have ye father" says he. "Just water" replied the priest. "Now father, what's that empty wine bottle there all about?" "Good heavens" exclaimed the priest. "He's done it again."

Posted by: BGone | March 17, 2008 2:32 PM
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CCNL,

So I guess the entire country of the Netherlands is stupid too, since 60% of that country is below sea level. Of course the fact that they now have a flawless control system doesn't matter to you, does it? Have you ever made a positive comment about anything?

Arminius
(drinking green beer on St Patrick's day)

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 2:20 PM
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SHAME on WAHABi, not iSLAM, SHAME SAUDi ARABiA, OSAMA et al!:

Att: OBAMA, NAACP, OPRAH WINFREY, & Friends of The NATION OF ISLAM, U.S.A. etc..

Here under is some unJAZZY stuff:

On, "ON-WOMANS-WRONGS & SHAME, not RIGHTS!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo&feature=related

UNDERCOVER of Islamic-Zionism , aka “AL TAQIYA” (not by Jews) via Saudi Built MOSQUE!

Internationally, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS & Millions INVOLVED in Non-Islamic Nations!

Abolish islam in Sweet Sweet U.S.A.!

Remove Tax free Status & Building permits, restrict-Boycott Travel, Student exchange etc..!

Posted by: OBAMA & all that Jazz | March 17, 2008 1:58 PM
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Rebuilding a city that is below sea level is SIGNIFICANTLY STUPID!!!! and a waste of taxpayers money.

And I am sure the street vendors in Baton Rouge would sell you a beer and jazz sounds just the same anywhere.

And rebuilding/remodeling Palestine would remove many of the issues used by Islamic terrorists to blow themselves up.

Of course, if you deflawed Judaism, Islam and Christianity, you would also remove all the religious issues surrounding Israel and Palestine!!!

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 17, 2008 1:22 PM
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Poop.

Posted by: Pooper | March 17, 2008 1:19 PM
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Ah, New Orleans! A gem among cities, even in the world. May she be rebuilt and prosper! Where else can you buy a beer from a street vendor, walk around, look at the art in the shops, and listen to great jazz? Yes, she is an old lady, but young at heart, and when you visit her, you will fall in love. I sure did.

Arminius

Posted by: Arminius | March 17, 2008 12:41 PM
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Re: New Orleans
I have visited New Orleans for the first and only time so far the summer before Katrina. The more I hear about its devastation the more I wish I would live long enough to see it again when it is at least the way it was if not better. I admire and commend those who are rebuilding this very vibrant and unique city.

Posted by: Ibrahim Mahfouz | March 17, 2008 12:33 PM
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Why should they... for Israel to bomb again?

And why bring up Palestine...New Orleans is one of this country's most unique and excting city, there were things in New Orleans that you can not find anywhere else in the world. It is a wonderful city so full of history, all you have to do is walk down the streets in the French Quarter and see the markers of the two other nations that has had a flag that has flown over it. (The parish I live in was once owned by the Spainish king.)

What happened before Katrina? :
The govenment takes 3/4 of our National Guard to Iraq with the equipment that was desperatly needed during Katrina.

The Gov of La. begged for help when Katrina jogs toward us at the last minuet...She said," Give us all you got."

Then:
WE saw the first Goverment help a week after Katrina hit. The La. Fish and Wild Life starts in saving folks. People come with their boats and start pulling people off of bridges and roof tops. Then when the Feds get there...the people with private boats (my husband was one of them) were told to staop what they were doing or have their boats taken.

Bush standing in front of St. Louis Cathedral with Army lights lighting up his photo op. He says," WE will do all we can to get this city back." His republican congress critters say things like," Move New Orleans." " Why rebuild?" Then they make Mary Landreux stand in the well in the Senate for three days, in turn angry and crying begging for funds to help La. Then what does this presi9dent do? He does not forgive the 10% pay back that all other presidents have given in any other natural crisis. Which means that with a state that has lost government building, universities, schools...and hundreds of thousands of businesses and homes...with no tax base and hundreds of dead and thousands scattered all over the country...this president wanted this state to pay back 10 cents on every dollar. When they did not have the dollar. Mississippi was forgiven their 10%.

Then came Rita. And the same thing happened. New Orleans got flooded...plus a new area of our state. Both Katrina and Rita came through where I live.

And who was at fault for New Orleans flooding? The Government. For years Bush took money from the levee maintanance fund for Iraq. The levees were made from substandard materierials and were not put in correctly to start with.

Then those folks, many who were black and poor were shipped out to other states...with a one way ticket. Children seperated from parents...families that lived in the same neighborhood and whose homes had been in the same family for generations. They all of a sudden were misplaced, refugees in their own country. And did the gov. their gov help to get them back home? No, because this gov. decided that it would be better if THOSE people were gone.

Then for those who stayed? campers and trailors. Campers and trailors filled with formaldihyde. Brain cancers, asthma, all kinds of heart and ther organ damage. And when did the people that this gov put in those trailors and campers? 2 1/2 years after FIMA workers were told.

And the money...the millions sent to La. to help the people...2 1/2 years after Katrina...the money is just starting to trickle in. But I hear folks saying things like.."wow those people in New Orleans are just plain lazy". or "What kind of people can live like that?" or...from the gov. "The people in those campers and trailors do not want to leave, after all they are free".

Then there is the rent. The gov could have stepped in and put a cap on rental prices. They could have made it possible for apartments to be built...what did they do? They tore down prefectly good public houseing that was not harmed by flooding and made thousands of people, homeless. And what are they going to put in their place? single family homes...low cost houseing intermixed with other housing. Which means there is less houseing for those who need it. The rent for what there is is three times the cost..the poor can not afford to pay it.

New Orleans was the city of color and layers because of the people...without all the people it will not be what it was.

It is wonderful that kids will come and help build homes...but it will take more then a roof to bring Naw'lins back. It will take an administration and loval gov. that cares and stands by it's promise, not just in the light, but in the shadows.

Posted by: Terra Gazelle | March 17, 2008 12:24 PM
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The best news that I've heard out of New Orleans recently was this story from Saturday's Washington Post about a white congregation and a black congregation combining:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/14/AR2008031403428.html?hpid=artslot

Katrina underscored the fact that many people are so poor that they don't have enough money to get out of town in a hurry and that our leaders don't really care.

In addition, part of the message that I took away was that we overvalue our material possessions. Granted, there was much pain in the loss. But, after a time of healing, so many people have moved on and prospered, some with a healthier outlook on life.

Posted by: faithfulservant3 | March 17, 2008 12:23 PM
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An auxiliary issue/question: Why aren't the Muslim oil barons rebuilding/remodeling Palestine????

Posted by: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated | March 17, 2008 10:37 AM
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New Orleans: Recover, Rebuild, Rebirth

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