EID MUBARAK EVERYONE!

Paganplace- you stated-
America is a *Republic,* for one thing. Not a 'democracy' in the strictest sense."
"

Democracy without fundamental rights and liberties is not the 'Freedom' that we have enjoyed here in America.

"Voting in your religious authority is not 'Freedom.'"

First you criticize Bushies for pushing for their version of democracy-
And then you want to impose YOUR view of democracy on others-

That is the point of a democracy-
What the PEOPLE want- and if the people decide for themselves, and with their vote- they want Hamas- (who was elected into office through the democratic process- but America decided it didn't like their freely elected choice-)
or a religious authority- like in A-Jad in Iran- also elected-

What is the difference between Bush trying to impose his ideology and yours?

In other words- we have to consider the possibility that OTHERS WILL DISAGREE with us- but it is their right to DISAGREE AND VOTE IN WHO THEY WANT!

Do none of you understand what an electoral democracy is?

The Democracy of the USA and Our War on Terror and Aggression:

An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops (3,378 combat 795 non-combat) and 87,643 – 95,664
Iraqi civilians, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!!

4. North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel hopefully a fresh sense of civility is afoot.

5. NK has unfortunately gone back on its promises and is restarting in nuclear weapons’ programs.

6. Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

7. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

8. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

9. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

10. Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

11. Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

12. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

13. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

14. The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Radovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war -- charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

15. And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

In "honor" of the month of Ramadan, a sermon regarding helping the orphans.
Now during the whole month of Ramadan, the Egyptian TV has been airing public service ads including one asking for monetary donations to help the orphans of Egypt “celebrate” the end of Ramadan holiday. They quote a bogus hadith attributed to their prophet that encourages the help of the orphans. I say it is bogus because if their prophet had his heart on the orphans he would not have prohibited adoption in the first place.
How that came to be?
Mohammad inherited a freed Syrian slave from his first wife Khadija by the name of Zayd the son of Haritha and who after adoption was renamed Zayd the son of Mohammad.
The prophet visited his adopted son’s house one time and saw his daughter-in-law, Zainab bint Jahsh in her nightgown. He liked what he saw and hinted his interest to adding her to his harem. The young man was willing to do anything, including divorcing his wife, to please his father. The prophet would not hear of it. That is until the Messenger of Allah received a message from Allah through the Archangel Gabriel “encouraging” him to marry his daughter-in-law. The daughter in law , Zainab, to her credit refused such an arrangement until she was shown the “message from Allah”.
The Arabs of Mecca began to loudly question this new arrangement that was unheard of in their culture. As usual, Allah interceded at the nick of time with a new edict; adoption was from that moment on forbidden and retroactively . This would surely get him of the hook since Zayd would no longer be his son and Zainab no longer his daughter in law. That did get him off the hook but at what price? It denied Muslim children throughout history from the mercy of adoption and doomed them to a lifetime of deprivation. The hadith quoted about the prophet entreating the believers to help the orphans must be a bogus one.

Democracy without fundamental rights and liberties is not the 'Freedom' that we have enjoyed here in America.

Voting in your religious authority is not 'Freedom.' Which Bush and McCain learned the hard way when they pressured people to elect the bad guys overseas, rather conspicuously.

As America should have learned the hard way by voting in the Religious Right candidates twice in a row and getting one disaster, wrong-headed policy, assault on liberty, crime, and corruption after another.

America is a *Republic,* for one thing. Not a 'democracy' in the strictest sense. (Not to confuse the parties with these government forms.) Trying to 'impose' democracy when the demos isn't invested with or even interested in equal rights for all is just foolish.

The kind of simplistic folly, really, that appeals to the worst in people. Not what you want to be voting for.

Halozcel

Anonymous,

Democracy means Human Rights and Contemporary Values,not only Election.

Is there Human Rights in Malaysia,Indonesia Bangladsh(how many Hindus are living in Bangladesh).No,no,no.

Albania and Democracy !
Are you kidding ?

In Africa,the countries,you wrote,are *cannibal* Lands and they havent *D* of Democracy.

Turkey.Yes,Turkey.She is not *islamic country*,but secular one.
Most of Turkish Nation try to live like Human and vast majority of Turkish People are secular muslims.

Islamic countries do not practice democracy or secularism in any meaningful way--not the way the world understands them. Turkey, that "shining" example that Muslims always hold up, is not at all democratic or secular. If you are not Muslim, do not adopt a Muslim name, you cannot live and work in Turkey. Is this secularism? Forget about minorities even aspiring to top government jobs let alone politically powerful positions.

Muslims seem to take pride in establishing so-called Islamic republics rooted in Islamic theocracy. Can't they see that a theocracy is a constitution created by inferior minds? What is so great about a constitution that excludes non-Muslims simply by reason of their faith? How enlightened is that? It is narrow minded and born out of this "us versus them" world view. This mindset has alienated Muslims from the rest of the world. Well, they got what they deserved.

In general, the world view of Muslims is pretty screwed up, there is little doubt about that. Take for example Pakistan. The Pakistani public is against any government that it perceives as "doing America's bidding" in killing terrorists, even launching strikes against them. That's why they were so mad with Musharaff and got rid of him. But the point is, any government that comes to power has to deal with militants for Pakistan's sake. Not for the sake of the United States. How difficult is that for Pakistani's to understand?

No, Pakistanis understand this full well. However, this understanding is crushed under this overriding feeling that even if militants are wrong, even if they are spreading terror, they are our own "Muslim brothers and sisters" and therefore deserve the sympathy and support of all Muslims. What a screwed up view of the world, of religion, of a sense of right and wrong!!! What hope is there for the Muslim world with this kind of screwed up thinking? When will Muslims understand that there is something terrible wrong in a society that spawns mindless violence and shelters its perpetrators in the name of religion. This has nothing to do with America and everything to do with correcting distorted thinking and doing the right thing.

Anon:

What you call Islamic democracy is not democracy in any but an ironic sense. Despite the recent election, Sierra Leone, for instance, does not have freedom of speech or press. Indonesia and Malaysia severely limit both and neither is stable at present.

Bengladesh is under a caretaker government and has yet to hold free elections. Attempts to root out corruption continue in the midst of every kind of violence imaginable. And then there is the poverty and extremism.
-------------------------------------
From the BBC:

Indian troops kill seven rebels near Bangladesh

1 day ago

NEW DELHI (AFP) — Indian troops on Friday shot dead seven militants belonging to a guerrilla outfit that New Delhi says is based in neighbouring Bangladesh, the defence ministry said Friday.

The Islamic guerrillas were killed in a fierce firefight in the northeastern Indian state of Assam, which adjoins Bangladesh, a military spokesman in New Delhi said.

The rebels belonged to the Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami (HUJI) outfit, which India claims extends training and arms support to Islamic guerrilla organisations fighting its rule in various parts of the country.

"A group of Huji terrorists from Bangladesh moved to Guwahati and they were to meet with another group of Huji which is already stationed in Guwahati planning for several blasts," the spokesman said.

The spokesman said troops encircled the militants near Assam's largest city, triggering the gun battle late Thursday.

Besides weapons and explosives, the troops also found large quantities of Indian, Chinese and Bangladesh currency at the scene of the fighting, he said.

India has tightened security at its porous borders with Bangladesh following a spate of coordinated bombings in four cities since May this year.

This event occurred on September 26th. I could go down your list but what is the point. As for Turkey, it struggles on, not knowing how to balance freedom of religious practice for Muslims with the secularism so many Turks desire. Very much alone is Turkey.

Anon- If by islamic you mean country that is overwhelmingly populated by Muslims- then- these are electoral deomcracies-
ASIA

Bangladesh
Malaysia
Indonesia

EUROPE

Albania
Turkey
(Kosovo is trying)

AFRICA

Senegal
Mali
Niger
The Gambia
Sierre Leone
Djibouti

Hope this helps.

ISLAM AND DEMOCRACY

http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~rtavakol/engineer/2.htm

And say: “The truth is from your Lord, so let whomever desires believe, and whomever desires reject 18-29.

There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, then he has grasped the most solid branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower 2-256

For every nation We have made rites which they will fulfill. So do not let the matter fall into dispute 22-67

Anonymous,

You say *Who does not love freedom and democracy*
Submission.Yes,submission.

Submission rejects Freedom.33.36 How can you interprete this verse ?
Would you show any Democratic islamic country ?
Could you write any Shariah Land where Human Rights flourished ?

You say *No Jihad in quran* How should we interprete 49.15

Many thanks.

This little dictator come into our house and pontificates to us. Some of our church leaders are even planning to visit with him.
This poor excuse of a man is persecuting all the non-Shiites in his country and hanging apostates. Two such ex-Muslims are now waiting executions in one of Tehran’s dungeons. His regime is getting innovative in punishing the apostates who are living outside Iran, mainly by confiscating their properties there and severing any connections with their relatives and friends inside Iran.
Eboo et al are furious that we are not providing church space for his coreligionist till Saudi Arabia build them a huge campus they call Islamic Center from which Saudi clerics of the Wahabis persuasion spew the venom of incitement against us. We know what is being preached in those dens of segregation, discrimination and outright hatred toward all others.
The authorities here allow these massive structures when many of the Muslim countries do not allow the construction of any house of worship for other religions. Even those Muslim ruled countries who had churches from pre-Islamic days are obstructing efforts to repair them in accordance with the teachings of their faith as codified by the so-called Omar Pact.

“We shall not build, in our cities or in their neighborhood, new monasteries, Churches, convents, or monks' cells, nor shall we repair, by day or by night, such of them as fall in ruins or are situated in the quarters of the Muslims.”
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html

We accommodate them because we believe in tolerance and freedoms including that of religion, but they take it to mean that we are weak and naïve.

In "honor" of the fun and feasting holiday of Ramadan:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/ mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

They wish to put out God's light with their mouths. But God will continue with His light, even if the rejecters dislike it.

Quran 61-8

Here here Anon-
As Ramadan comes to an end- after a month of fasting- no recognition of our month long celebration.

Nor acknowledgement of our holiday whatsoever.

It is such a shame that there is no attmept to portray the billion peaceful observant Muslims in the world during our holy time-
And the fear- and hate-mongering- all politically motivated to frighten the people into accepting another 4 more years of the same past 8 years-

From Concerned the Christian Now Liberated:

Our War on Terror and Aggression:

An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed (3,378 combat 795 non-combat) and 87,643 – 95,664 Iraqi civilians, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they recently threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!!

3. North Korea is still uncivil but is contained.

4. NK started to destroy in nuclear weapons’ capabilities but has recently reneged on its promises.

5. Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

6. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful.

7. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

8. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghahistan and Pakistan.

9.Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

10. Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

11. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

12. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

13. The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Radovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war -- charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

14. And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

Terrorism must be stringently fought and punished but not by declaring war against any country. It is equally brutal to punish another set of innocent people. Moreover Afghanistan is no match for American power. America is lowering its own position by taking on an impoverished country like Afghanistan. The Soviet invasion, the civil war and all that has hardly left anything worth fighting against.

If we live in the 21st century and really respect democracy, freedom and human rights we have to promote culture of peace. The US always maintains that these Muslims cannot tolerate our freedom and democracy. But question is, apart from veracity of this approach, is US itself promoting freedom and democracy outside its own country? Who does not love freedom and democracy – the Muslim masses or the rulers America supports? US even lifted all democratic bans imposed on Pakistan when General Musharraf had captured power just because it needed Pakistan’s help in its fight against terrorism. Is it the way to promote freedom and democracy in the world?

Also, the way it attacked Afghanistan violates all norms of democracy and rule of law as well as international behaviour. War against terrorism could have been more effectively fought by winning over peoples of Muslim countries, by persuading them to isolate likes of Osama, boycott them and create a strong public opinion against such highly condemnable acts of terrorism. It could have launched intensive propaganda on these lines. All Muslims are far from unanimous about accepting such terrorist acts as jihad. The moderates are staunchly opposed to even the need for jihad (in the sense of war, though the holy Qur’an does not use the word jihad for war) in the modern world, let alone condoning individual acts of terrorism as jihad.

The US would have enhanced its appeal by following the path of peace, democracy and international law. It would have not only won tremendous and unqualified sympathy of Muslims throughout the world, it would have greatly served the cause of peace and culture of peace. By declaring war against a weak and impoverished country like Afghanistan it has not only lowered its own dignity it has alienated itself from moderate Muslims. No one would approve if one uses sledge- hammer to kill a fly.

The declaration of war and raining of bombs will not ensure any success against terrorism. It might not only defeat the purpose but would also perhaps spread more terror, particularly against America. Simply dropping food packets along with bombs will hardly ensure any support for it much less endearing it to the people. Also, America can greatly help in promoting culture of peace in twenty-first century by thoroughly revising its policies and shedding its arrogance of power.

It is regrettable that America, which prides itself for values like freedom, democracy and human rights, has killed largest number of innocent people around the world after Second World War. Such behaviour naturally breeds terrorism in certain sections of population. Terrorism can never be fought with terrorism. This violence torn world needs more peace than ever before. America talks of freedom and democracy but freedom and democracy can flourish only if there is peace and justice in the whole world.

Terrorism is a political response to a political situation. It would be futile to look for its roots in any religion.Such movies cannot solve the problem. It will only add to them . It can be a rightwing party agenda and not solution to the problem. If we love our country let us not politicize problem of terrorism and put our efforts to solve it through sincere means.

More by the hateful racist whose post I pasted below can be found on this thread.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2008/09/dont_lend_despots_the_veneer_o/allcomments.html

DEAR MR. PATEL:

I'm no Islamophobe; however, I wonder if you would be so kind as to explain statements such as the following which were made on this blog by the author I name. I should add that he is not the only person cluelessly posting anti-Jewish racist filth. Most Muslim racists know better than to try this with Christians in THIS country since we outnumber them.

Alas, I saw very few address this blogger's post. Only yours truly by her lonesome. He's asking one Victoria for her support. Here's the post, MR. PATEL. Your comments, sir?
*******************************
"I have repeatedly stated without any hesitations, here and else where, that the Zionists and Jews have hijacked the foreign policies of this country to solely advance and promote their own causes and agendas all at the expense of the American people and their values.
How does that make one to be a racist when stating uncontested and established facts ?
And, what are the required qualifications to label one as such? Certainly, not arrogance, ignorance, hate and the least but not the last, not being a fake,."

FaramarzFathi@aol.com

From Concerned the Christian now Liberated:

Obsession?????

These inserts are simply stating the truth about Islam!!!

Newspapers being responsible for the contemporary education of their readers should actually run the following truths about Islam every day:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the assassination of Bhutto, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/ mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

According to a recent "Islam on Campus" survey of 1,400 students by the Centre for Social Cohesion, an independent think tank, just under a third of Muslim students said that killing in the name of religion can be justified. Sixty percent of the students who were active members of campus Islamic societies agreed with the statement.
This means that 2 out of every three members of those Muslim organizations on college campuses have no qualms in exterminating anyone who questions your religion.
It is getting to be that hate of the West in general and the USA in particular is becoming the sixth pillar of Islam. The Americans do not need the “Obsession” video to know how Muslim “extremists” think. We read it in your books and see in their actions.

(more from Paganplace)

I mean, I'm sure this is nowhere near the intention of those who distributed this film, but I say that the problem it outlines ...says that we have to take this problem *more seriously* than blind aggression, polarization, and empty bravado.

Cause the Islamophobic noise we usually hear here never has the answer to the simple questions:

"What do you propose to *do*"

and

"What do you expect to happen next?"

(From Paganplace)

Aha. This showed up in my mailbox, no newspaper required. Immediately preceded by some junk mail for charities addressed to some Muslim-sounding names that I know have never resided here.

Stictly-speaking, the film isn't all that unreasonable, in some ways, though, yes, despite token disclaimers, one really would have some difficulty keeping a cool head about it. I did hold my nose and play it.

Nothing new, really, there. I wouldn't even call it 'Islamophobic,' if you weren't Islamophobic when you hit 'play,' in which case it would clearly only stoke the same fears.

Offered no real solutions, of course, except a certain amount of mention how we should be supporting folks like you and those who stand up to the radicals, instead of being as blindly-fearful as some would have us be.

Nothing new about it. Only question is how some others are going to so-readily contextualize it for those who learn by pictures. Admittedly, not everyone's gonna look at that and see past the brand names. And I've yet to really look into who put it out, except I'm pretty sure the "Clarion" people are referring to the Last Judgement of Christian (And Muslim) belief and all.

Doesn't change anything. Yes, bad people are very bad. Bad people even lie about how bad they are. Who knew.

What we do is take hands and do good, not live out of fear, Mr. Patel. Same as ever.

We do America. People who want to freak out in that way these threads are always full of , don't know where to point that fear, anyway.

The 'War on Terror' is about police work, ...Also about *not* surrendering to one Fundamentalism in an attempt to fight another. That'd be letting the enemy both choose the battleground, and disarm the lot of us.

Our reason, common humanity, liberty, and goodwill are our *protection.* Yes, there's bad stuff and bad people out there. No one knows this better than I. In fact, I don't trust Islam any better than I trust Christianity.

I trust *people* more than many could possibly imagine, though.

Cause there are bad, bad people out there, waving books and guns and hate.

This is nothing new.

But unlike many who preach 'salvation' through blind force, I have a different faith. A simpler one.

That we're all worth saving, and can do it. Together.

As you say, this is *not* about Christianity Vs Islam. *Everybody* loses, that way.

This is about pluralism and hope v apocalyptic death.

We can take a little melodrama, if we remember this, and stick with each other, at least as Americans.

Eboo,

Your pan-Islamist views are yours and only stoke the passions of fanatic Jihadis. Your opinions that screeing "Obsession" is somehow related to fanning anti-Islam hatred is purely sophomoric and amateurish.

It is indeed attack on a "doctrine". A "doctrine" that in its ultimate form calls for slaughter or subjugation of people of other faiths. As all of the educated people know, reading Dr. Muqtedar Khan's candid view that there are three classes of Muslims. (See his guest piece on WaPo, September 22, 2008).

1. Muslim jihadists who use Islam for violence only - to rid the world of infidels. (These are few in number.)

2. Muslims who openly condemn the advocation and execution of violence against peaceful bystanders of different faith. (These are few in number.)

3. Muslims who are in a state of self-denial and engage in revisionist negationism about Islamic jihadism. They blame everyone else, but the Jihadists. These Muslims always try to find a cause behind the fanaticism of the Jihadists. (These are large in number.)

I am wondering, that why you should *NOT* fall in category # 3 ?

Of course, going by your present and past articles you are most likely to label me as an ISLAMOPHOBE. But, that's OK ! I'm sure as hell that you cannot argue against Dr. Khan's contentions.