Georgiason: My, my, you "real Americans" sure do have a lot of time on your hands to fulminate.

As I wote previously: "If you want to work together to combat bigotry wherever it is and whatever the source - be it Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel, Russia, China or the US, that's fine."

You'll note that I included Saudi Arabia in the list. Your problem with me therefore seems not to be that I excuse Saudi actions that foment extremism, for I do not. Your problem with me seems to be that I dare to include non-Muslims in the list of those whose bigotry we need to combat.

Until you remove the blinders that allow you to only see and become agitated by intolerance stemming from Muslim societies, you will remain, as stated previously, part of the problem.

Q. E. D.

Georgiason: My, my, you "real Americans" sure have a lot of time on your hands to fulminate.

As I noted already: "If you want to work together to combat bigotry wherever it is and whatever the source - be it Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel, Russia, China or the US, that's fine."

You'll notice that I included Saudi Arabia in the list. Your problem with me therefore seems not to be that I excuse away Saudi actions which foment extremism - because I do not. Your problem with me seems to be that I dare include non-Muslim communities and countries on the list of those who perpetrate bigotry as well.

Until you take off the blinders that allow you to only see and become agitated by that intolerance which comes from some Muslims, you will remain part of the problem. Q. E. D.

Well, "NOT TAKING THE BAIT:"

Thank you for proving every point I made. You are so over the top, your "points" require no long rebuttal. Just for the record:

1. The issue is not the Koran or the selective use of its verses. The issue is a particularly Saudi textbook.
2. What intellectual dishonesty to switch, within one sentence, from talking about the growth of Islam worldwide to talking about the growth of non-white minorities in America, in an attempt to prove that I, somehow, need to adjust to a brave new world. Talk about apples and oranges! Were you trying to leave the impression that the growth of non-white minorities in the U.S. somehow means the overall increase in Muslims? You failed.
3. Your second paragraph is such a mish mash of non-sequiturs, it defies rational analysis. I'll try, anyway. The issue is not what textbooks you have or have not read. Let me repeat: The issue is a particular textbook used by particular schools all over the world, including the U.S. What part of that do you not understand?
3. Did somebody ask you to apologize for the Saudis? We real Americans are asking for your opinion on a particular Saudi textbook and on the schools in the U.S. that use it. Hint: Tell us that you, too, are appalled that the Saudis continue to fund the publication of this textbook and its use worldwide. Tell us that you are appalled at the U.S. schools that use it. Tell us that you intend to contact the ISA school in Virginia and tell them to stop using it. (Let me know if you need any further guidance on how a real American would respond to this issue. I'll be glad to help you).
4. No racial or religious group that I belong to is publishing or using a textbook full of extremist ideology and hate-mongering. Therefore, I have no need to react one way or the other.
5. Your last paragraph is a classic of creating a strawman--and then mirror imaging it! You state that you are against bigotry. And then you display bigotry by accusing me and Ms. Shea of being on an anti-Muslim crusade! What possible evidence do you have to make such a blanket charge? All we have done is comment on the FACT of Saudi backing of a particular textbook.

I had already replied next door in Post Global to another Muslim critic. Since every word applies to you as well, let me repeat it:
KATE on September 5, 2008 11:35AM replied to critical remarks about Islam in this forum by stating:

"I think these irresponsible and un-supported accusations do more to create the problem they supposedly want to combat than resolve it. Isn't our country better than this?"

Kate also praised the ISA school, its faculty and students.

Kate, had you read my remarks before you posted your comment? Because you have reinforced every point I made about how Muslims deal with criticism by simply ignoring the FACTS and going off on some meaningless rant about the glories of Islam and the base motives of any who criticize Islam. And there you go again, doing exactly that!

As others have noted, you completely ignore the FACTS that led to Ms. Shea's commentary. You make no mention of the Saudi textbook, which is what this forum is all about. You make no effort to engage others on the central issue. You abandon any semblance of rational discourse and resort to evasion and obscuratinism.

That's exactly what makes you, other so-called moderate Muslims, and the faculty and students at ISA so dangerous. You have the bifurcated, compartmented minds that are tailor-made to produce extremism and violence in the name of some cause. Particularly religion. Case in point: How was it that the German people, who gave us Beethoven, Wagner, Goethe, Thomas Mann, and great literature, great science, great medicine--could have given the world Adolph Hitler and the Nazis? Because, like you and apparently most Muslims, they had compartmented brains. One part of their brain existed in the rational world where reason and logic held sway. The other part lived in a dream-like world removed from reality, where demagoguery and emotional appeals to mystical myths from their past held sway. Hitler and the Nazis knew how to exploit that realm from which reason and logic had fled.

Does that not describe you to a "T?" You do not use the rational side of your brain to engage the FACT of the Saudi textbook. The irrational side of your brain takes over, and you rush without thought to defend what you perceive as an unnecessary attack on your founding myth--just like the Germans rallied behind the Nazis.

I say again: The FACT that even you, the students and faculty at ISA, and apparently most Muslims in America are locked into this pattern of thought and behavior makes you a clear and present danger to the American way of life.

Georgiason, you are on the wrong side of history. You don't like hundreds of quotes from the holy book of Islam demonstrating that, like all other holy books, its passages can be selectively excerpted to make virtually any point - violent or peace-loving. You don't like Muslim Americans period. Well Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and non-white minorities will make up the majority of the US population within 50 years according to US census figures, so you might want to get used to a brave new world.

As for Saudi textbooks, I was raised Muslim and never read or was presented with a single one. I don't feel the need to apologize for what the Saudis do any more than I suspect you feel the need to apologize for the crimes and bigotry perpetrated by whatever racial or religious groups you happen to belong to.

If you want to work together to combat bigotry wherever it is and whatever the source - be it Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel, Russia, China or the US, that's fine. But if, as it appears, you - like Ms. Shea - are on a solely anti-Muslim crusade, you will only remain part of the problem.

If you've had enough of the Americans-as-Philistines from the so-called moderate Muslim wing, I suggest you go next door to Post Global, where Jack Fairweather's blog has an article about the fact that Saudi textbooks used at Islamic schools worldwide--including in the United States--say that killing gays, Jews, and unbelievers is OK.

Here is my comment on Nina Shea's article:

The comments posted by Muslims in this blog are unbelievable as rational discourse. Ms. Shea posted a commentary based on the simple fact that Saudi textbooks teach the extremist, jihad-loving doctrines that provide the ideological foundation of Islamic extremism and terrorism worldwide. Do Muslims react in horror to this FACT and resolve to do something about it?

On the contrary, out come the whole panoply of Muslim arguments that, at best, tell us why we should tolerate those textbooks, and--at worst--legitimize and rationalize those extremist teachings. We are treated, once more, to the standard Muslim tactics used by so-called moderate Muslims to try to get around these unpleasant FACTS about Islam. Up front is the deliberate obscuratinism. Hundreds and hundreds of words, paragraph after paragraph, are devoted to quoting Koranic verses and Islamic scholars and citing alleged acts of compassion by Mohhamad, in the apparent belief that the truth can be hidden beneath all this rubbish. Then there is the other standard tactic: claim that Muslims, whatever their sins, are really no worse than Christians, Jews, and Americans. Cite acts that happened hundreds and even thousands of years ago to prove your case.

By using these transparent tactics, "moderate" Muslims accomplish the opposite of what they intended. They validate the original charge, by showing they have no valid argument to refute it. They shoot themselves in the foot.

The truth will not go away. Muslim schools worldwide, including those in the United States, use Saudi textbooks that preach an extremist, hate-mongering version of Islam.

On this FACT alone, I repeat my first-step solution: limit the number of Muslims that reside in the United States at any one time.