Will the 57 intolerant and violent Islamic nations follow suit and become more secular or at least respectful of non-Muslims?

Will Muslims give up terrorism?

Interfaith dialogue is a ploy by "muslims" like Eboo Patel (not a very muslim name) who are embarassed of their own religion.

Instead of being honest and admitting they don't understand why one of his great great grandfathers decided to convert (probably was scared of being killed or tortured), they hide behind interfaith dialogue.

The problem is that instead of honestly addressing the violence in Islam, Eboos become apologists for terrorists. Constantly whining and waxing about some child-like idealism, while children are being killed (slaughtered like lambs- Happy Eid, y'all).

Eboo, look inside. Internal dialogue will the most productive for you.

Oh, and Peaceful2008, if you're in bed with all your bloody oil money, stocks and such, maybe, you want to wash it off. Try getting all that blood and oil off if you can. If you can.

Eboo,

Gavriel, his eight-month-pregnant-wife, Rivkah, both murdered say hello. Their two-year-old son carried out in his parents' blood say hello. Hello.

I find Enger's post interesting, if stupid.

Israel will not go away because of either Christian or Muslim terrorism. Although we have no oil money, which is what those folks value most, we aren't going anywhere. And if we do, more will come, many many more.

It has been suggested in the last few years among some young Jews that we should, like the Christians and Muslims, get into the conversion business. Of course, Judaism doesn't seek converts, but it welcomes them. Now, just look at how many people convert on their own, not for any reason except that the religion spoke truth to them. Imagine what would happen if we made the slightest effort. IMHO, it's a proposal worth supporting.

Perhaps, if there were more of us the AmeriChristians, and the Christians are the mother and father of modern terrorism, wouldn't have killed two hundred thousand people who did them no harm in Iraq and Afghanistan.

And who knows how many more Jews, and, indeed, Muslims, would still be alive. But Muslims know this. And, you need only go to any Muslim country to get their thinking on the matter.

peaceful2008:

Dear Farnaz2,

You are a racist because you think Jews are somehow entitled to commit genocide in the name of self defense. Everything Israel does is in the name of self-defense.

It was seld-defense that took over the Palsestinian land ..I would call it SELF-INTEREST

Unfortunately, your religion is somehow immune from compassion and humane behavior. It is perhaps the most self-serving religion of all time. Have seen a Jew contribute to a non-Jewish charity?

Does Madoff qualify as your hero?

Farnaz2, how much money did you steal from Iran when you left?
-------------------
My Dear Racist Pig,

Jews are not exempt from anything. Moreover since porkers like your self insist on killing us in your oinking quest for blood, we are not even permitted to live.

I did not "leave" Iran. After our family friend, Ismael, was murdered in the street by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, while he was being taken into "custody" and his blood splattered onto my clothes as I screamed and screamed and screamed, my parents decided we could wait no longer.

We had lived in Iran since the Middle Ages, gone through the years of that clown Shah, supported, indeed upheld. by the AmeriChristians and wealthy Iranian Muslim families, while the whole time that other pig, Khomeini was being kept safe by the French Catholic Oil wh*res.

Our beloved country was lost. We left in the middle of the night with nothing. Before that, my mother took me to her closest friend's house, a Muslim woman, who has since come here, thank God. She told her that if we were gone in the morning, she should take whatever she wanted.

This woman and her family were very wealthy. There was nothing they could want from us. It was my mother's way of saying goodbye. I still remember them sitting there, crying in one another's arms. They were so young, so beautiful.

As we drove away in the middle of the night, I asked my mother if we would be killed. She hesitated for a moment, but then said, "There will always be those who come after us."

Now, thieving genociding, peaceful2008. Oil-loving, killing for money racist, remember that. We will always be here. And more will always come. No matter how much of our blood you shed.

Sleep with your little George Bush doll and your Saudi oil lamp. Light candles for your heroes.

The Council of Islamic leadership in Malaysia has "reached out" to the 200+million muslims residing there and told them it is sinful to practice Hatha(physical) yoga. Fundamentalist Christian groups have done the same thing here, but not one US citizen has been physically harmed for that reason, and we can bet there will be beatings and stonings within months.

When will Islam reach out to its own membership in tolerance and humility and discontinue governing humans based on an ancient tribal belief system?

While I do know that Israel is the father of modern terrorism and has never intended to coexist with a Palestinian state, I know that if a nation I was in attempted to adopt Sharia law or give Islamic clerics any power, I would be as viscious as the Serbs in preventing that, and genocide would not be off the plate.

So please remember in all of these discussions that all of the Cults of Abraham were created by tribal warlords to control a warloving group of mideasterners, and should be baned from civil society.

d2008chameleon,

As Americans it is our self-proclaimed duty to extend a hand and offer fair treatment to those who are oppressed or who indeed oppress in other parts of the world. While that sentiment has been buried these past 8+ years, it is still something in which many of us believe.

"America is much more than a geographical fact. It is a political and moral fact - the first community in which men set out in principle to institutionalize freedom, responsible government, and human equality." --Adlai Stevenson

All peace loving people will welcome B H Obamas's approach to the muslim world as this would be the beginning of a new chapter in inter human and inter-faith relations. No obstacles from any source should be allowed to hamper this development. All over the world, muslims have suffered a lot and the US too had its share of suffering. Now it is time to make up and start a new era of east-west understanding which should promote constructive dialouge among civilisations.

Yameenzusnit pontificates thus:

“Muslims have not invited you to occupy their lands , oil fields and impose your agents on them as rulers. If you do no like Muslims leave them and their wealth alone.”

Do not forget that we are the ones who discovered the oil fields in your land and we are the ones who are pumping it and shipping out. If left for the Muslims this oil would still be in the ground and you would still be living on palm dates and camel milk.

Greek American Hamza Yusuf says *Obama reaches out to the Muslim World*

Greek Hamza,
Correct sentence: *How can muslim world reach out to Civilization*

Greek Hamza,
Obama/US/Civilization will not reach out to you,but you,yes,you shall reach out to Civilization.

Greek Hamza,
Besides,you can not speak in the name of *Muslim World*.

How creepy and funny indeed for Muslims to ask for recognition and fair treatment in the USA and other countries as well, when they don't do this in their own countries like those in the Middle East and Indonesia. And Barack Hussein Obama now initiated this without any qualms and reminder for them to initiate the same in their countries of origin. This is something that needs close watching.

The muslim world must try to understand the other world and cultures more and more. Religion is only for the individual developement and must be practiced with in the walls.Religion based governace will doom the nations and world.Muslim world must practically allow all other religions to practice in their soil.Freedom of religion and speech are important for any democracy to flourish. Religion speaks only kind ness and humanity.Why so many killings are there every day in islamic countries while all the democratic countries are living happily.Never in the history won the autocrasy and wickedness.It is right time to practice the teachings of great indian leader Mahatma Gandhi.

A related article:

The Arab/Islamic View of Obama
From Euphoria to Skepticism

http://www.politicalislam.org/embed_doc.php?ArticleID=253

att YAMEENZUSNT et al; 1:26PM.

Mahabar: (Hello)

Technically: ALL PETRO under the Crust [This Earth] Belongs To ALL The People. [Internatioanal, not National] So,

Since No one asketh to be born, THAT

Please See a Miracle In Motion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spermatazoa

Every Man Woman & Child are "AUTOMATiC CITiZENS/DENIZENZ" Of Holy Cosmic Nebula built SPACE-SHIP-EARTH." No Bible today, except the "OUR-BOOK:, a.k.a the O.ne U.niversal R.eligion BOOK" has made this fact any clearer.

AND Any Oil Anywhere Known & later found & not Known; Includes Deposits of America, Saudi, Russia, Africa, Asia Majo/Minor, Off Shore & Onshore;

"SHALL BELONG To Every, Any & All Automatic Citizenz/Denizenz of Earth:

The Creation of A International "PETROLIUM-BANK" , not CARTEL's Of Petro-Gangs or Thugs or Oligarchs & Monopoly'sts, where only 4 Currencies should be exchanged worlwide ( because there are Too Many currency's that clogg the International Pipe [Financial Sys.]; Like too many Religions Poisoning or Spoiling things.) AND

Soo, it shall be one of Brother Obama's & Co. goals, of many.

Prediction: Besides Islam & Especially Arabs of Saudi, [notGaz, not Aegypt] that Within 10-20 Years, Saudi & the Middle-East Islamic Petrolium Exporting States will Drown or Swimm in their Own Oil.

Question: How Many Patents & or Copy Rights or Intellectual or Artistic creations or genuine Engineering feats (Not Copy Cay) hath the ISLAMIC Nation of Middle East, less The LEVANT have, filed, Nationally or Internationally?? Almost ZERO!!!

America's Future lies in B A T T E R Y-POWER, GEO-THERMAL-CONTAINMENT & NUCLEAR. Wind & Solar, Ocean Waves & Current & Bio-Mass or Bio-Fuels is improving too. Soo,

PREDICTION 2: When this Pipe Dream (realistic & not a Fantacy) becomes a Reality: Then the Down-Fall of Al Islam will be witnessed the World Over!

PS: Today, Islamic-OIL Exporting Country's can Be Issolated one by one & start with IRAN. Next??

OPEC, Internationalize ye PETRO or else be left behind. The Hand Writing is on the Wall. Save the Future of Ye Posterity [MEME's] not Islam!

---

att KOHSAR 240 et al:

Brother "BO" is Not the NAZERiNE nor the MASSIAH nor the MAHDi nor the KALKi nor the MAiTREYA etc..

He is simply a friend of Oprah Winfrey et al & is the 1st Afro-White American to be the 44th Luck? Fella! So,

Please Do Not let Obama Mania or such fervor confuse Ye Reality, which is also OUR reality, at hand!

Dear Farnaz2,

You are a racist because you think Jews are somehow entitled to commit genocide in the name of self defense. Everything Israel does is in the name of self-defense.

It was seld-defense that took over the Palsestinian land ..I would call it SELF-INTEREST

Unfortunately, your religion is somehow immune from compassion and humane behavior. It is perhaps the most self-serving religion of all time. Have seen a Jew contribute to a non-Jewish charity?

Does Madoff qualify as your hero?

Farnaz2, how much money did you steal from Iran when you left?

Two days ago Robert Reich, in Congress, asked that they eliminate white males from stimulus-plan pork money. Sanjay Gupta was described by This Week magazine as being put in his health job with no public health experience because he was of Indian ancestry (and because he was sexy). Now comes Patel "explaining" Muslim terrorism and painting Muslims as victims. Its not taking long for those behind Obama to show their true colors. Surely no one wants a race war in this country, or do they?

Yameen

We do not get Arab and Iranian oil for free. We pay exhorbitant prices for it. the Saudis and the Iranians do not share their wealth with other Muslims. There is no such thing as Muslim wealth. Unfortunately inspite of the pockets of oil wealth most of the Muslim world is mired in ignorance and poverty. I also find Muslims to be a very arrogant people.

Obama has intimate understanding of the world, including the Muslim world. As a result, Muslims, by all indications, minus the extremists, respect and adore Barack Hussain Obama. He is God sent, he is Muslim's Messiah. Of course, Muslims supporting him is not a zero-sum game, rather one important element coming around the President for the first time, which is an opportunity peace with mutual respect and dignity for all.

Some people write in these columns as if they have not been living on Muslim money for decades. No source of energy, be it electric, your cars, planes ships buses- all run on Muslim oil. No muslim begs you to be kind to them( do not include your agents as monarchs and dictators including Saddam Husain). The money you pay muslim dictators for their oil is deposited in your banks; this is the reason why in spite of all the wealth they have, there is little development of their land and no alleviation of their poverty. . Muslims have not invited you to occupy their lands , oil fields and impose your agents on them as rulers. If you do no like Muslims leave them and their wealth alone. Muslims would like to live in peace with everyone but would also like to keep what is theirs.

att CCNL et al:

Through his '14 Promises', OBAMA Reaches out to Israeli's:

i came across a nice article about the 'Promise Meter' (not about 'the Promised Land?) or , as i joke about, called the Obama "895 Mitvah" , aka Deeds.

Today is count down: Day 6 of 100 days to go. Then the-Light will be seen, like the Ground Hog, or not.

Please see: http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/rosner/entry/the_14_promises_of_obama

Again, the Five Steps to Deprogram/"Deflaw" Islam:

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

"aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."
A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."
Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from Islamic ways and thoughts.

Analogous Five Step Programs for Deprograming/"Deflawing" Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and Paganism are available upon request.

bshameem

Kashmir has already been settled. Jammu and Kashmir became a free state within free India in 1947 according to the rules set for contiguous states. the people of the state have once again told the world that they are Indians by voting overwhelmingly in the recent elections.

All that remains as far as J & K is concerned is that Pakistan must vacate the parts occupied by it.

Pakistan must also let the people of Sindhudesh ( Sindh), Balochistan and NWFP go free as the people of these province do not consider themselves Pakistanis.

I had dinner the other day with a muhajir whose parents had immigrated from Agra in India to Pakistan after Partition. He, born in Pakistan, was of he opinion that his parents had made a big mistake by leaving India.

It is just a matter of time before Pakistan breaks up. Hope that it happens peacefully.

Reaching out to the Muslim nations is an imperative for Obama. For 8 long years under Bush the antagonism between Muslims and the West - in particular, America - has mushroomed. The tide must turn if we expect a peaceful, harmonious world for us and the coming generations.

At the same time, however, the dictatorial tendencies in the Muslim countries have to be severely and firmly dealt with. The Hosni Mubaraks must go, making way for an orderly transition to democratic norms.

And issues such as Palestine and Kashmir must be addressed, with America presenting itself as an impartial arbiter, not openly and slavishly slanted towards Israel and India.

Chipping away at decades / centuries old attitudes will be required and the American nation will need to be brought along, educated as to what REALLY goes on in the outside world, particularly Asia.

I, as a volunteer who signed up for Obama in January of 2008, am upbeat and optimistic that the new administration will chart a new course.

Muslims expect the recent Obama goodwill to translate into substance. Hopefully Americans do not make the mistakes of the past in dealing with not only the the Muslims but the third world as well. First do not think they are simple-minded and do not understand your real moves. Acts like inviting Mattson to a prayer meeting means nothing of substance. Do not promote monarchies, dictatorships, occupations and tribalism among them with American money. Muslims know who among them is on American payroll including in their mosques and has big accounts in their banks including off-shore ones . Measure the effectiveness of your help by how many schools, hospitals and roads were built by American money abroad or by the status of discrimination in jobs and medical help here. Substance must accompany words; cosmetics do not nor your budget.Mr. Patel thank you for your input and interfaith efforts but please redirect your efforts towards getting more fairness from Americans for the needy (Prof. Zubairi).

It is really shocking to see (from the posts here) that there exists so much hatred. People seem so bigoted and ignorant. No wonder the terrorists are succeeding.

The postings by JAILKKHOSLA and FARNAZ2 are right on target. No matter how much Patel and his band of merry men paint Islam as a peaceful, wonderful and enlightened religion, the history of the last 1300 years shows otherwise. Islam will not co-exist with any other belief unless compelled under an even bigger gun. Period. As long as they believe, steadfastly, that Muhamad and Koran are infallible, and every word and action of his are to be followed literally without compromises, makes this group of people unable to come out of their 7th century caves. Even the ‘most educated’ of them are the same behind the curtains. That is why we still see Muslim men staunchly believe in polygamy, and old men’s brides as young as 8 years. It is why beheading or amputations of limbs, stoning to death, and other extreme cruelties are norms among all Muslims. These people can’t get along even within themselves, the same as in Muhamad’s time. Democracy and Islam are like oil and water.

Has anyone noticed how Patel, etc., preach INTERFAITH on these pages, only because Muslims are such a minority here, and they want acceptance. This is a well-orchestrated and sinister plan, possibly funded with Saudi money. They want mosques and madrassas accepted in every corner of the USA. However, there is no such thing as any interfaith in any of the Islamic countries. Not even one of them. Europe fell for this crap, and now at 10% strength, the shariah wielders are popping up their ugly heads everywhere. If we don’t watch it, it soon will be our turn. It is better for BHO to talk to them softly, while carrying a large stick. They will understand the stick.

Is it possible the Islam is a dead religion? OOps don't say that or they may come and stone you in your house....Death to Hamas...

"To say that it will be based on mutual respect" also means that it will be easier to see where the 'real' problems lie and how to work together to solve the 'real' problems in this world.

Screw the Muslims. I can't help but wonder why B. Hussein Obama took so long to show his true identity. He'd better hope Allah forgives him. lol

*Islamic Populism* is dangerous.Be careful.

*Islamic Populism is very dangerous.Be very careful.

Those who try to do islamic populism should be very careful.Islamic Populism goes to Talibamism eventually.

There is not any islamic component in the foundation of US and there is not any islamic mentality in US and there has never been.

Islamic Populism doesnt solve anything and doesnt help anything.Islamic Populism brings more problems.

Islamic Populism is a fire/flame.If you play with fire,you may burn your hands,your body and your country.Yes,be careful.Be very careful.

BOs offer of hand to Muslims is not only significant for American strategy - going forward - but also more significant for the divided ideological world of Arabs/Muslims - after eight years of *Islamic Fascism* and whatnot uttered by GWBs WH.

Muslims need a sense of self-respect and recognition by Western world. They can't be sucked into the political morase due to Binladen and Talibanism of (all) Muslims.

If the end product of the hand extended by BO means more objective and moral imperative in dealing(s) with Muslim countries, so much the better.

IMO Muslims need the facility of global support to emerge from their socalled *dark* ages into modernity and social development and may be diversity, as well.

Farnazz and Eboo

the historic wrong happened when Muhammad massacred thousands of male Jews in Arabia, stole their land and other property, sold their widows and orphans into slavery( except the young female children he fancied for his bed) and finally expelled all Jews from Arabia.

Muslims should begin by returning half of Saudi Arabia to the Jews.

Then they should open Mecca and Medina to all non-Muslims allowing them to build their temples, churches, synagogues and even places of atheistic gatherings.

Then reform Islam and begin by allowing apostates to go free and changing the current laws that require Muslims who leave Islam to be killed.

There is much more that Muslims need to do.

The real question that needs to be asked, answered and when the answer is found to be implemented is " What can Muslims do to win the hearts and minds of non-Muslims?"

" What can non-Muslims do to win the hearts and minds of Muslims" is the wrong question. We have done enough, in fact we have done too much and unfortunately we are finding that no matter how much we do Muslims will not be satisfied.

RobertJames1:

Speaking of contempt for Muslims, when you return from Jupiter, kindly spell correctly: "Muslims."

Heavy, is it not, the white man's burden.

Unfortunately, RobertJames1 and racist-facists of his ilk are unable to see that Israel, like any other nation, has the right to defend itself. It did little to exercise that right in the last three years, when it departed Gaza, allowing itself to be rocketed over and over again, allowing for ceasefires to be broken continually.

It is unfortunate that Gazans were not permitted to leave by Hamas before the advance started, unfortunate that Hamas itself did not leave, did not come out, surrender and behave like men. But then they are not men.

It is unfortunate that Egypt sealed up its borders to make sure that no one could leave, even after Israel offered to guard the border. It was only last week that Egypt agreed and then over international pressure. But, again, my point in this post is not to accuse racist-fascists like RobertJames1.

It is not to accuse such hypocritical fascists like him regardless of what their ethnicity is. For he is a coward. He lives in a country which has genocided Afghanistan and Iraq. His big behind grows fat off the near extinction of the Native Americans, who continue to go to bed hungry. This nation had no right to their land and has no right to keep them impoverished.

Israelis, like the Vietnamese, who were driven out of their land, returned. For two thousand years, they had prayed facing Jerusalem. They returned. And as was the case for the Vietnamese they are any fascist's nightmare, any facist, including RobertJames1. Speaking of fascism, I will attempt to again tomorrow to publish the rest of the names of the Israelis killed by Islamic murderers, notwithstanding censorship.

Eboo: Gavriel, Rivkah, the eight-month-old baby slaughtered in her womb, the two-year-old son carried out in their blood say hello. Hello.

During the inaugural address, I was hoping that Obama would offer the Moslem world hope, friendship and respect because Bush and the West gave it war and treated it with off-hand contempt.

As for Farnazz (the post at the top of the page), he is unable to see how badly Israel has behved. He reflects the contempt that many Zionists have for Moslms. Hamas is stupid and brutal but Israel had no right to kill innocent civilians while pretending that its actions were merely defensive. During and after the war it has stopped Gazans who are dieing from receiving essential medical treatment.

Israel did not try to rid Gaza of Hamas because when hamas drops its rockets on Israel it allows Israel to say its cruelty against ordinary Gazans is necessary.

Israel sent a clear message to Gazans: leave Gaza and to move to another Moslem nation because we will not let you live in peace. Israel wants to incorporate Gaza into Israel.

Farnazz might understand why some of us believe that Israel is a cruel nation that has forced Gazans to live in a horrible Ghetto. It practices genocide.

Sorry, but when Israel leaves Gaza and Hamas muslims spend three years rocketing Israel, that does not for friendly discussion make. Nevertheless, friendly overtures were made again and again and again. And every time, a ceasefire was agreed upon Hamas muslims broke it.

Now, here is the deal. My problem with Patel had nothing to do with Israel/Gaza, but only with racism of the sort one finds in the post of Peace2008 (of the ironic moniker), who spells "jewish" thus, with a small j. Note my spelling of "muslim." Appealing, is it?

I'm no fan of Islamofascists like Hamas. That is for sure, but that was not the point of the post that started us on this track. In fact, it had nothing to do with the recent war. We can go on forever about that conflict-that's fine-but it was not my point, and the distinction is important.

We can continue with name-calling, such as I've done reactively in this post and will continue to do until the end of time, if necessary. OR, we can agree that racism and name-calling have no place in this discussion. And it was for racism, that I challenged Patel.

What I called Patel on is racism. Period. I called him on it since it has been present in his essays of the last two months, and I have yer to see some reflection on it and an apology. Until I see them, I will call him on it again and again and again.

Beginning now. Gavriel, Rivka, her eight-month-old baby slaughtered in the womb, their two-year old son, carried out bathed in his mother's blood say hello, Eboo. Hello.

yes,but from his first speech he only talk of protecting Israel ,no Palestine at all.

To STARSANDSTRIPESFOREVER and others:

All Jihadist will be defeated in due time. In the meantime, we have to work on defeating Zionism (Judeo-terrorism) and end Western exploitation and economic black mail of the Muslim world.

Conflicts involves juxtaposition of two wrong opinions.

To people on both sides of this issue:

If you truly care about the innocent victims on your side of the fence, you ought to care about the innocent victims on the other side of the fence

Extremist Jews and Extremist Muslims are indeed quite alike. They both only care about their own casualties. People, we are all human.

There is no predetermined casualty ratio. Israel kills 400 Palestinian women and children for every one jewish casualty. What has this policy gotten them? more bloody land??

And Palestinians? desperate rocket attacks on civilians?

There is a bilateral racism in play here and neither side accepts it

I think you miss the point.

Obama was not "reaching out to" Muslims, but was challenging them with a choice: can they unclench the fist and extend a hand ?

This challenge has been before them, the leaders of the 1.2 Billion, that violence is NO answer, and violence undercuts what may be legitimate in their cause.

Have they heard of Gandhi ?

I'm thrilled with the prospect of respecting one's right to worship...

but respecting Radical Islam's right to exterminate all Jews and infidels does not fall under the auspices of freedom of religion.

The Jihadists must be defeated at all costs!

Obama Reality 101

Barack H. Obama won the presidential election not because of his race or good looks or ability to make a good speech. He won because of the ~70 million "mothers and fathers" of aborted children.

The math: Roe vs. Wade was decided
in 1973. Since that time (at least until 2003), the CDC recorded and published the number of abortions done in the USA each year. The rate on average was one million abortions per year. That comes to ~35 million abortions and ~70
million voting-age "mothers and fathers" of these aborted children.

(The final popular vote count was 69,456,897 for Obama and 59,934,786 for McCain. )

And of course they voted for the pro-choice candidate, one Barack H. Obama, the
first president elected by this growing demographic. The headlines should
therefore not have read, "The First African-American Elected To The
Presidency."

It should have read:

"The First President Elected by the "Mothers and Fathers" of 35 Million Aborted
Children."

(By ending the Mexico City Policy, he made final payment for the votes of the Immoral Majority and now the USA taxpayer picks up another tab, abortions in third world countries. )

The result would have been the same for any pro-choice candidate who won the primary election.

It is nice to see a list of the children killed by Hamas. Even thought the poster listed Israel at fault. Fortunately the GC(IV) ARTICLE 28
" The presence of a protected person may not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations."

Is quite clear on the subject and the UN court has not challenged it. The same UN that recognized Israel back in the 40's. Must be hard for those arabs in Gaza to get half their aid, food , and medicine from the very same organization that validates the position and nation of the their enemy.

So no matter what muslims do to win in the court of popular opinion when they try to play the victim; thanks to history, the UN and international law; our western civilization will know the truth .

" truthseeker1

"Obama is SUCH a refreshing change from his Fundamentalist predecessor.

"I am actually PROUD of my President today!"

Oh, Goddess, Mother of All, ain't that the truth.

We're the United States of America, and right now that means we're the ones that can shoot a cruise missile up any given nostril of our choice, and the only way that's going to work out for the world is if we hold to our principles... And do not freak out.

Obama is SUCH a refreshing change from his Fundamentalist predecessor.

I am actually PROUD of my President today!

Also, was the world getting too *sane,* that they had to let JJ back in?

Peace, 'Clearthinking,' is peace. It's a living, breathing, loving, thing. It's not a byproduct of something else.

You wouldn't think so, but learning from what you'd call 'Gods of War' *does* teach you that.

War is war. And that's all it is.

Peace is not the 'absence of any possible threat,' because if there's no actual threat, people will *invent* one.

Peace is a real, living, breathing, wonderful thing. One we must tend and honor and live.

Peace is not an 'aftermath.' Peace is the rest of *life.*

I Believe that via Kenyan Obama-Mania; That the Soverign Nation of Africa [dear. K E N Y A] will become the 1st Africans Nation to "REVERSE ISLAM" on that Continent! Then a Domino Effect!

Guess Obama's Middle Name [HUSAN] is a Prophetic name for the 3rd Imam, a.k.a the [expected] MAHDI??? Ya Ya.

PERCEPTION: Islam = violence.
REALITY: Islam = violence.
HISTORY: Islam = violence.

CLAIM: Islam = religion of peace.

OK. Let's see it.

To get rid of violence, Islam will have to reform to the point that it is not Islam anymore . Muslims will have to reject most of their current and historic leaders, reject most of their past and present behavior, and reject much of the Koran (kill nonbelievers, mistreat women etc...) to join the modern civilized world.

ONLY THEN, we can have interfaith dialogue.

Eboo and other apologists for terrorism: ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has been fooled. YOU need to get to work on the obvious problem.

" Farnaz2
PaganPlace,

Can you read? As in "decode"? As in literally comprehend?"

Actually, it seems what I *read* was some of you trying to post four thousand names at a previous point. I'm sorry if I presumed the UKBA guy's list was also you.

No, I don't comprehend, though. We're all sitting here behind keyboards and acting like it's necessary to listen to people who claim it's impossible for *any* of us to *ever* get along with each other.

All you monotheists, actually, you each say you're so much better than all the rest of humanity, then stand around claiming right of vengeance by whatever means necessary.

I mean, don't get me wrong, here, Farnazz. Hamas went and made a complicated situation all kinds of simple. They basically parked a bunch of missiles in residential areas and made it, for Israel, 'their kids or ours.'

There's innocents on both sides of the border, and everyone seems to be saying it's about more than the ugly banal reality of shooting rockets at other human beings, and this is why it goes on.

I'm not seeing any utility in picking a 'side' in the resulting ethnic and religious hatefests.

This is *why* organizations like Hamas *do* this. To make their own cowardly actions bigger than the reality of who gets blown up for them. Their lives, their families, their humanity, and the humanity of the rest of the world that gets to watch.

This killing is *done* to turn human beings... children... into blood and war.

To turn us all into monsters in each others' eyes, and thereby, of course, justify more acts of inhumanity.

No, it's *not* the way, to put this in the context such people *want.* The only people who win are *they.*

It's not glory, or holiness.

It's pushing buttons.

Whoever does it.

As Americans I don't see what we're supposed to add to the situation over therein the way of pushing buttons and people dying.

As Americans over *here,* maybe we can, by getting along *here,* take the aura of the 'holy' away from all the carnage.

Instead of adding to it. And hurting ourselves and each other in the process.

When someone *picks a fight* the point is usually to piss off someone enough that they'll do something stupid.

I've had it up to *here* with stupid, just lately.

The reason they call it "terror"-ism is to *scare* you that way.

Yes, there are plenty of reasons for plenty of people to be pissed off, in this world. That's not at issue.

Being so scared you don't feel safe if a Muslim exists ain't my idea of *courage.* And that goes for Muslims who don't feel safe if *Israel* exists, too.

Cool it down.

Send out your champions if you want to sweat testosterone.

If I can offer a Pagan perspective, here, the lot of you, Christians, Jews, Muslims, when you get your war on you act like it's *always* the end of the world.

The worst part of it is, it never *is.*

It just goes on.

Every damn time.

No, America cannot bring peace with a gun and Jesus.

But we can live together *here,* and be a friend to those in the world who are ready for something else.

There's no 'strength,' as Deb seems to claim, in denying the humanity of others.

Strength is in expecting no less.

Even in a fight.

Slaughter of innocents doesn't happen because we see each other as human. It happens when we are *afraid* to.

Deb Chatterjee:

If one historic wrong (Israel's existence) is to be set right, then what about giving back portions of land back to the Jews in setting the other historic wrong (expulsion of Jews) straight too ? Why would that be unacceptable to Muslims - give Makkah and Madinah back to Jewish people to live there ?
______________________
Israelis were forced out of Jerusalem by the Romans. They remained nonetheless. There was a historic JEWISH presence in Jerusalem from the pre-Biblical period to the present. Jews have PRAYED FACING JERUSALEM since the beginning of Judaism, whenever they were outside of Jerusalem.

Other peoples, e.g., the Vietnamese have been exiled, indeed repeatedly, from their countries, just as we have. What distinguishes our right to nationhood, to self-determination is racism.

As far as Saudi Arabia is concerned, why stop there? There are three million of us in exile, Deb Chatterjee, including me, exiled from the MIddle East. How about our rights?

Hello EBOO et al:

It is known that if a Islam Father has a Baby that HIS Child(s) , like Borak Husan Obama, is born a Muslum. And that if a Yehudi Mother has a baby then HER Child(s) is Born a JEW.

Fact: As Long as there exists any Pre-Apocalyptic THEOCRATIC Run Nation & a MONARCHIC run Nation, then there will never be a so called 'Permanent Peace'. Please do not let the Omama Mania get you.

Note: It is "S e c u l a r" Nation-Building (within Islamic Nations, ie, All of the "OIC" member States) that will be this Planet's only HOPE or Best Medicine out of Religio Psych-Theocratics! A Pre-Apocalyptic illusion who's TIME is awakened!

PS: Once Upon a time BUSH said, "We must TRUST, but Verify..", Yet OBAMA should reiterate, "Verify 1st then TRUST"!

iMPORTANAT: The Day Al Islam "RENOUNCES" their Claim to World Domination via Islam, aka a Religion; Then & Only Then can Trust come before Verify!

Example: The Arabic word 'AL TAQIYAH' means Islamic Conquest of All the 'Peoples Of The Books" (Non-Believers, aka Infidels) an infiltration by lies, Denials, tricks , Patience etc.. Until the ATTACK signal is given.

Last but not Least: It's enough that Islam hath a SUNNi-ATOMiC BOMB today (Which Pakistan, in Proxy, is a Saudi Bomb) And Soon;

Please, as a Muslum DO NOT LET IRAN get a 'SHIA-BOMB', in Proxy this is the HAMAS-HEZBULLAH-OSAMA-SYRIAN bomb!

Maybe the contenent of Africa will convert to Christianity, or Judaism, or Buddha or Hindu instead of Islam. Hint: Obama did not "Swear" or "Affirm" on the Koran, but a Bible.

Prediction: Soon Islam will have their Own ISLAMIC CURRENCY! Then What America?, Europe? ...?

PaganPlace,

Can you read? As in "decode"? As in literally comprehend?

My point, which should be abundantly clear to anyone literate, is that I would have liked to avoid the "litany." The "litany" was made in response to the post of UKBA, AS I SAID, in his post of January 24, 2009 5:07 PM, ff.

SCROLL DOWN. I do not hold "Mr." Patel responsible for anything other than his own racism. I distinguish racism from politics in my post to Deb Chatterjee and in earlier posts on this thread.

I'm not getting into a pointless debate with you. Been there, done that.

Tell it to *who?* This is America. Once again.

Reading litanies of names as if it's Mr. Patel's fault for not renouncing the religion you presumably accuse him of murder for belonging to...

Or being like Deb Chatterjee and saying, "All Muslims are murderers and I'll call Paganplace a Muslim for disagreeing with me..."

This is not how we do things here.

Such displays are not 'shows of strength.'

Quite the opposite.

I think we've had enough of such weakness.

Deb Chatterjee:

Actually, after three years of attacks, I wouldn't call Israel's offensive "pre-emptive. Unfortunately, I cannot post the names of the three thousand murdered since I'm being blocked. Even when trying to post three of four at a time, I'm censored.

Frankly, I wouldn't be doing this at all if bloggers like UKBA confuse, with Eboo, politics with racism. Eboo's recent posts have been racist with respect to Jews. That was my point in mentioning Rivka, Gavriel, her slaughtered-in-the-womb-eight-month-old baby, the watching by their two-year-old son of his parents' killing by Islamist animal murderers.

I have no objection to political disagreements. Racism is another story, or it should be, don't you think, Deb Chatterjee?

PaganPlace:

Save it, or tell it to UKBA.

This is not the way, Farnazz.

Farnaz:

Actually I predict that President Obama shall fail USA. Because, look at his "reaching out" strategy to the "Muslim world". This will be taken by Muslims as a sign of appeasement and weakness. The Gitmo closings are a sign that has encouraged the Al-Qaeda. Al-Shihri, a former Gitmo graduate, is now the president of Al-Qaeda in Yemen.

More importantly, your friend, Paganplace is a pure hypocrite as most Muslims are including Eboo Patel. For example, Eboo and his Hamza buddy have been shooting off at the "vices" of the secular, sinful democratic western societies; how viciously the secular culture opposes Islam and how badly Muslims are "discriminated". Well, apart from some of the aircraft passengers being outed like the detaining of the latest group of Muslims by the Air Tran, I have not heard of any disrimintaion of Muslims. Non-Muslims in Muslim lands fare far worse. And, USA now has a president called BARAK HUSSEIN OBAMA. That was the name Chief John G. Roberts uttered in swearing President Obama.

I have on several occassions pointed out the major flaw about this discussion between Israel's right to exist as challenged by Hamas. The blog makes it clear that Hamas believes that Israel cannot exist because of their (Hamas) understanding of Islam. I find this not only arrogant and offensive, but I think that such should be met by a vicious pre-emptive force as Israel is doing now. Let's assume that Israel should not exist. Well, then the Quran states very clearly that Prophet Muhammad had ordered expulsion of Jews from Arabia. If one historic wrong (Israel's existence) is to be set right, then what about giving back portions of land back to the Jews in setting the other historic wrong (expulsion of Jews) straight too ? Why would that be unacceptable to Muslims - give Makkah and Madinah back to Jewish people to live there ?

Lastly if USA continues to appease the Muslim culture, it would end up respecting such barbaric practices as NYT reports:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/world/asia/25swat.html?hp

What has Obama doctrine outlined on such characteristics of Islam ? (Oh, well ! He is busy with the 825 billion dollar stimulus.)

Farnaz:

Actually I predict that President Obama shall fail USA. Because, look at his "reaching out" strategy to the "Muslim world". This will be taken by Muslims as a sign of appeasement and weakness. The Gitmo closings are a sign that has encouraged the Al-Qaeda. Al-Shihri, a former Gitmo graduate, is now the president of Al-Qaeda in Yemen.

More importantly, your friend, Paganplace is a pure hypocrite as most Muslims are including Eboo Patel. For example, Eboo and his Hamza buddy have been shooting off at the "vices" of the secular, sinful democratic western societies; how viciously the secular culture opposes Islam and how badly Muslims are "discriminated". Well, apart from some of the aircraft passengers being outed like the detaining of the latest group of Muslims by the Air Tran, I have not heard of any disrimintaion of Muslims. Non-Muslims in Muslim lands fare far worse. And, USA now has a president called BARAK HUSSEIN OBAMA. That was the name Chief John G. Roberts uttered in swearing President Obama.

I have on several occassions pointed out the major flaw about this discussion between Israel's right to exist as challenged by Hamas. The blog makes it clear that Hamas believes that Israel cannot exist because of their (Hamas) understanding of Islam. I find this not only arrogant and offensive, but I think that such should be met by a vicious pre-emptive force as Israel is doing now. Let's assume that Israel should not exist. Well, then the Quran states very clearly that Prophet Muhammad had ordered expulsion of Jews from Arabia. If one historic wrong (Israel's existence) is to be set right, then what about giving back portions of land back to the Jews in setting the other historic wrong (expulsion of Jews) straight too ? Why would that be unacceptable to Muslims - give Makkah and Madinah back to Jewish people to live there ?

Lastly if USA continues to appease the Muslim culture, it would end up respecting such barbaric practices as NYT reports:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/world/asia/25swat.html?hp

What has Obama doctrine outlined on such characteristics of Islam ? (Oh, well ! He is busy with the 825 billion dollar stimulus.)

TO ALL:

Scroll down for context for what I paste below:
_____________________

Eboo,

Tikun Olam-תקון עולם. Make the world a better place. Gavriel, Rivka and the eight-month-old child in her bloodied womb say, "Hello!". Greetings, too, from their little boy, who witnessed his parents and four others being tortured to death, who was carried out alive covered in their blood.

Greetings. When can we expect the "Muslim community" to renounce its virulent Jew-hatred, and when can we expect apologies for recent essays by you.

January 24, 2009 2:35 PM

From Eboo with Love:

My posts of four thousand names are being held by the "blog owner." I've been trying to post five or six at a time, so length isn't the issue. I wouldn't have gotten into this in the first place had it not been for the infantile response of another blogger of my earlier criticism of Patel, which I will repaste.

From Islam with Love: Partial List

May 9, 2008 - Jimmy Kadoshim, 48, of Kibbutz Kfar Aza, was killed by mortar fire from the Gaza Strip while tending his garden.May 12, 2008 - Shuli Katz, 70, of Kibbutz Gevaram, was killed while visiting relatives at Moshav Yesha, some 15 kms (9 miles) from the Gaza Strip.June 5, 2008 - Amnon Rosenberg, 51, of Kibbutz Nirim was killed and four other employees were wounded when a mortar bomb fired by Palestinian terrorists from the Gaza Strip exploded outside the Nirlat paint factory in Kibbutz Nir-Oz. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.July 2, 2008 - Elizabeth (Lili) Goren-Friedman, 54; Batsheva Unterman, 33; and Jean Relevy, 68 - all of Jerusalem - were killed and over 50 wounded in a terror attack in Jerusalem. Driving a bulldozer on Jaffa Road between the Central Bus Station and the Mahane Yehuda market, the terrorist plowed into cars and pedestrians as well as two public buses (Egged buslines 13 and 60) carrying some 50 passengers. Police shot and killed the terrorist.July 11, 2008 - Border patrolman Lance Corporal David Chriqui, 19, of Rishon Lezion, critically wounded in a terrorist attack in the Old City of Jerusalem. He succumbed to his wounds on July 23.Oct 23, 2008 - Avraham Ozeri, 86, was stabbed to death near his home in Gilo, Jerusalem, by an Arab terrorist from the Arab village of Tekoa near Bethlehem.
Dec 27, 2008 - Beber Vaknin, 58, of Netivot was killed when a rocket fired from Gaza hit an apartment building in Netivot.Dec 29, 2008 - Hani al-Mahdi, 27, of Aroar, a Beduin settlement in the Negev was killed when a Grad-type missile fired from Gaza exploded at a construction site in Ashkelon; 16 other workers were wounded. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.Dec 29, 2008 - Irit Sheetrit, 39, of Ashdod was killed and several wounded when a Grad rocket exploded in the center of Ashdod. Hamas claimed esponsibility for the attack.Dec 29, 2008 - Warrant Officer Lutfi Nasraladin, 38, of the Druze town of Daliat el-Carmel was killed by a mortar attack on a military base near Nahal Oz.

Nice how free speech and the truth is put forth by your site. I have waited and waited to see my comments posted to no avail. NOW I know what and where your ideals of freedom of speech, even the truth put forth by citizens are. Washington Post and Newsweek, cowards and the multicultura lie, that gives the world over to islam, sharia law and the terrorist threat.

30/12/2008

Haya Talal Hamdan Girl 8

31/12/2008

Ahmed Kanouh Boy 10
Ameen Al-Zarbatlee Boy 10
Mohammed Nafez Mohaissen Boy 10
Mustafa Abou Ghanimah Boy 16
Yehya Awnee Mohaissen Boy 10
Ossman Bin Zaid Nizar Rayyan Boy 3
Assaad Nizar Rayyan Boy 2
Moaz-Uldeen Allah Al-Nasla Boy 5
Aya Nizar Rayyan Girl 12
Halima Nizar Rayyan Girl 5
Reem Nizar Rayyan Boy 4
Aicha Nizar Rayyan Girl 3
Abdul Rahman Nizar Rayyan Boy 6
Abdul Qader Nizar Rayyan Boy 12
Oyoon Jihad Al-Nasla Girl 16
Mahmoud Mustafa Ashour Boy 13
Maryam Nizar Rayyan Girl 5

01/01/2009

Hamada Ibrahim Mousabbah Boy 10
Zeinab Nizar Rayyan Girl 12
Sujud Mahmoud Al-Derdesawi Girl 10
Abdul Sattar Waleed Al-Astal Boy 12
Abed Rabbo Iyyad Abed Rabbo Al-Astal Boy 10
Ghassan Nizar Rayyan Boy 15
Christine Wadih El-Turk Boy 6
Mohammed Mousabbah Boy 14
Mohammed Iyad Abed Rabbo Al-Astal Boy 13
Mahmoud Samsoom Boy 16
Ahmed Tobail Boy 16
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Kafarneh Boy 17
Hassan Hejjo Boy 14
Rajeh Ziadeh Boy 18
Shareef Abdul Mota Armeelat Boy 15
Mohammed Moussa Al-Silawi Boy 10
Mahmoud Majed Mahmoud Abou Nahel Boy 16
Mohannad Al-Tatnaneeh Boy 18
Hani Mohammed Al-Silawi Boy 10

01/01/2009

Ahmed Al-Meshharawi Boy 16
Ahmed Khodair Sobaih Boy 17
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Kafarneh Boy 18
Asraa Kossai Al-Habash Girl 10
Assad Khaled Al-Meshharawi Boy 17
Asmaa Ibrahim Afana Girl 12
Ismail Abdullah Abou Sneima Boy 4
Akram Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 18
Aya Ziad Al-Nemr Girl 8
Ahmed Mohammed Al-Adham Boy 1
Akram Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 13
Hamza Zuhair Tantish Boy 12
Khalil Mohammed Mokdad Boy 18
Ruba Mohammed Fadl Abou-Rass Girl 13
Ziad Mohammed Salma Abou Sneima Boy 9
Shaza Al-Abed Al-Habash Girl 16
Abed Ziad Al-Nemr Boy 12
Attia Rushdi Al-Khawli Boy 16
Luay Yahya Abou Haleema Boy 17
Mohammed Akram Abou Harbeed Boy 18
Mohammed Abed Berbekh Boy 18
Mohammed Faraj Hassouna Boy 16
Mahmoud Khalil Al-Mashharawi Boy 12
Mahmoud Zahir Tantish Boy 17
Mahmoud Sami Assliya Boy 3
Moussa Youssef Berbekh Boy 16
Wi'am Jamal Al-Kafarneh Girl 2
Wadih Ayman Omar Boy 4
Youssef Abed Berbekh Boy 10

From Israel with love, or better yet from Israel with Tikun Olam:

At least 300 children are among the more than 1,285 Palestinians who have died since Israel began to bombard the Gaza Strip on December 27.

Al Jazeera has obtained the names of 210 of the young victims, 44 of which were under five years old.

27/12/2008

Ibtihal Kechko Girl 10
Ahmed Riad Mohammed Al-Sinwar Boy 3
Ahmed Al-Homs Boy 18
Ahmed Rasmi Abu Jazar Boy 16
Ahmed Sameeh Al-Halabi Boy 18
Tamer Hassan Al-Akhrass Boy 5
Hassan Ali Al-Akhrass Boy 3
Haneen Wael Mohammed Daban Girl 15
Khaled Sami Al-Astal Boy 15
alaat Mokhless Bassal Boy 18
Aaed Imad Kheera Boy 14
Abdullah Al-Rayess Boy 17
Odai Hakeem Al-Mansi Boy 4
Allam Nehrou Idriss Boy 18
Ali Marwan Abu Rabih Boy 18
Anan Saber Atiyah Boy 13
Camelia Al-Bardini Girl 10
Lama Talal Hamdan Girl 10
Mohammed Jaber Howeij Boy 17
Nimr Mustafa Amoom Boy 10

29/12/2008

Ismail Talal Hamdan Boy 10
Ahmed Ziad Al-Absi Boy 14
Ahmed Youssef Khello Boy 18
Ikram Anwar Baaloosha Girl 14
Tahrier Anwar Baaloosha Girl 17
Jihad Saleh Ghobn Boy 10
Jawaher Anwar Baaloosha Girl 8
Dina Anwar Baaloosha Girl 7
Samar Anwar Baaloosha Girl 6
Shady Youssef Ghobn Boy 12
Sudqi Ziad Al-Absi Boy 3
Imad Nabeel Abou Khater Boy 16
Lina Anwar Baaloosha Girl 7
Mohammed Basseel Madi Boy 17
Mohammed Jalal Abou Tair Boy 18
Mohammed Ziad Al-Absi Boy 14
Mahmoud Nabeel Ghabayen Boy 15
Moaz Yasser Abou Tair Boy 6
Wissam Akram Eid Girl 14

"You can always blow the crap out of each other later."
______________
You can blow the crap out of whomever you wish, PaganPlace. That's not what I'm about. Never was. Neither were Gavriel his eight-month-pregnant wife, and their two-year-old son. If Eboo is, like us, uninterested in blowing crap out, he ought to take a laxative, and explain why he's been shooting it at us for the last couple of months.

I ran into Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, one of American's Islam's foremost scholars,

American's Islam's? And you work for a national paper? Why did I bother with edumecatedeness?

It's not gonna happen, Farnazz, if it's all about whose hate-fest is better justified in the eyes of some absent judge.

Turning innocents... or even those one faction or another may call 'guilty,' into bloody offerings to said 'divine judge' ..does not bring peace, does not even address what we call the karma of past wars.

Now, I'm not one to say that never does there need to be conflict, but if we forget ourselves, and do not honor our 'enemies,' we lose ourselves in the process. War and fear and death become our master. Not the 'protection' fear-and-atrocity-mongers claim it is.

From my perspective, I can't see how people can inflame these hatreds life upon life, century upon century and not see the *pattern* ...Or, seeing it, simply think it's less important than one's personal desires for vengeance or to feel that it's as simple as commanding someone else to obey.

America need not do this. Frankly, it's been done before. America does not rule the world. But we *can* be America.

And I think that's worth embracing.

You can always blow the crap out of each other later.

Eboo,

Tikun Olam-תקון עולם. Make the world a better place. Gavriel, Rivka and the eight-month-old child in her bloodied womb say, "Hello!". Greetings, too, from their little boy, who witnessed his parents and four others being tortured to death, who was carried out alive covered in their blood.

Greetings. When can we expect the "Muslim community" to renounce its virulent Jew-hatred, and when can we expect apologies for recent essays by you.

"Please,please what did muslims do for American Values and US ?"

Remind us why we're better than talking like that?

Some Questions and Considerations on *We are a nation of Christians and Muslims* :

1-What did muslims do when US was founded in 1774 and later ?
2-How many muslim sodiers were there in Lincoln's Army when they war for Human Rights andContemporary American Values ?
3-How many muslim soldiers died for US during WWI and WWII ?
4-How many muslim men fighting against Terror in Afghanistan ?

Considerations;

-Let me correct one thing.Although *Christians* is not wrong word,accurate sentence should be *US was founded by Protestants*(not christians) and a little Irish Catholics.
-*We are shaped by every language and culture*.Yes,but,but,but US is a *Melting Pot* as well.All languages and cultures should be melted in US.English/American is the US language and everyone has to embrace US Constitution and American Contemporary Values.
-History repeats.
Someone else will make,and someone else will create and muslims will come and kill/eat it.
Muslims will come to Egypt and kill the Civilization in Egypt.
Muslims will come to Iran and will eat Persopolis.
Muslims will come to Sub-Continent and will kill Peace.
Muslims will come to Europa and will try to kill Civilization.
Muslims will come to US and will try to eat American Pie.
*We are a nation of Christians and muslims*
Please,please what did muslims do for American Values and US ?

Unfortunately, Obama and most Americans are dilusional if they think the Muslim world will respect weak non-believers. In order for Western civilization to survive, we need to be feared as well as respected.

Those Muslims (yes Muslims) who attacked us on 9/11 did not respect us and certainly did not fear us. The Muslim world seeks submission of the West, not co-existence. In the words of Shakespeare from Richard the III - "We are not safe, Clarence; we are not safe"

I think it's fine for Obama to reach out to the Muslim world. Bush's xenophobic approach to international relations did no one much good - even the Israelis. In the end, all parties have to come away with something; whatever it takes to start the small steps that lead to enducing peace. When Carter helped Israel and Egypt end their hostilities, neither side got everything it wanted, but each got enough for it to endure for over 30 years now. For Obama to have credibility, he has to come across as even-handed. Bush and his ilk would not do that, and so lost all leverage. But, "even handed" does not mean cozying up to Hamas or Hezbollah. Neither of these groups have any credibility with Israelis.

" colinnicholas

"I liked it that Obama also mentioned nonbelievers, and reached out to them too. I have a sneaking suspicion that he's a nonbeliever himself. He seems too smart to be superstitious; but tolerant enough to allow folks to believe whatever they believe."

Nah, all he has to be is too smart to believe the line that religious belief and reason and science must necessarily contradict each other.

I liked it that Obama also mentioned nonbelievers, and reached out to them too. I have a sneaking suspicion that he's a nonbeliever himself. He seems too smart to be superstitious; but tolerant enough to allow folks to believe whatever they believe.
And like a good nonbeliever he has the geatest respect for science.

Yeah it all comes down to faith. And it is because of the muslim faith, that we are where we're at.

Muslim with the submissions unto allah routinely have to find ONE thing to be the identity of their hatred. It also means they still have problems with the concept of representational rule. But I suspect part of that is an arab mindset.

ridda' - Islamic apostasy practiced now even in Iran. And I thought shia hadiths one redeeming feature was that they did not accept death for those who "turned away". Looks like they joined the Sunnis on the Dark Side for the intolerance league. So now multiple countries as well as tribes discourage dissent or even free thinking with a hadith that threatens death.

And of course the usual posts here blaming Israel for even existing much less for them acting rationally. But silence as always for a muslim brother (Egypt) who controls how much of Gaza's border? And who denied those same Gazans true independence from '47 to '67? Nope muslims gotta blame someone else, thus Israel and the "evil joos". And let's not forget the Great Satan, where muslims live,pay taxes, and yet curse the govt. for opressing their religion.

I would just like to post here and say that islamic comments and bloggers are the reason I take man-weeks each year to come up with new ideas in fighting asymmetrical warfare, creating corruptive practices that tend to only work on arab muslims (palestinians in particular since they are such a mono culture), and encouraging others to act likewise. Call it my tithe to humanity and western civlization.

/interfaith only works when one can freely join another in their practice and still be respected. But even before that it has to acknowledge as equals those not of the book.

Bloggersville, you remind of people who thought that they could talk to Hitler. Go read the Hamas charter, they are not going to change their ways.

Manmission,
You are acting like there has never been interfaith talks before. They mean nothing, as the Islamic agenda just moves forward. What they are doing is what Islam is about. If they want to change things they would, there is no need to talk about with Jews, and Christians.

jailkkhosla,

I see from one of your other WPost posts that you wrote:

"The biggest blasphemies active today are Christianity and Islam. Because they insist that there is only God. Any rational reason there cannot be two, a million or none? No has given me a convincing reason."
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/brad_hirschfield/2008/11/saudi_king_abdullah_villain_or/all_comments.html

Okay, so you're a polytheist. Let's consider polytheist countries.

When will the West ask India to act effectively to end its active practice of devadasi temple child prostitution? Hundreds of thousands of little girls will this very day - as they are each and every day - be raped in Hindu temples in India. As a sop to Human Rights Watch which has for years condemned the practice, India enacted a statute against devadasi temple child prostitution, but it is not enforced. For more information on devadasi:

http://www.google.com/search?q=devadasi+child+temple+prostitution

How about the accepted Hindu practice of killing unborn babies who are girls? Research this at:

http://www.google.com/search?q=hindu+sex+selection+abortion

First remove the log from the eyes of the polytheists, then you will be able to see clearly to remove the speck from your monotheist brothers' eyes.

It is time Muslims reached out to non-Muslims by making some real reforms in Islam such as declaring and passing laws to:

1) Ban polygamy

2)Ban sexual molestation of children. Muslims marry of young females to old Muslim men and justify the practice because their founder Muhammad married and had sex with children when he was approaching his sixties. That was then and this is 2009.

3) Allow Muslims to freely practice the faith of choice even if it means millions of Muslims will leave Islam

4) Allow full freedom of speech including the freedom to criticize Muhammad's actions and even draw cartoons of him

5) Give women equal rights including equal property rights, equal testimonial rights etc.

6) Abolish the practice of Muslims men divorcing their wives by a simple pronouncement of "talaaq" three times. If men or women wish to divorce let them go to court and let the court decide including on matters of alimony.

7) Muslims should boycott the hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca until Saudi Arabia allows full freedom of religion including the rights of non-Muslims to build churches, temples , synagogues in Mecca and to freely prosletyze.

Eboo, you and your fellow Muslims are living in a dirty glass house. It is time you cleaned it up.

Yeah, Obama's reaching out to Muslims all right - with missiles targeting the homes of families in Pakistan. Owned by AIPAC, Obama refuses even to talk to the duly elected government of Gaza - a government elected at the special behest of the US. Obama's idea of "change" is to continue Bush's crusade against Islam and kill, kill, kill.

Peaceful2008 pontificates to mlandsersmd:
“Your understanding of Islam and the Muslim world seems to be self-serving. Yes there are bad policies and bad behavior amongst them, but the overall message/people does not fit your image.”

The “ bad policies” he is talking about are an integral part of their belief system. If there are tolerant Muslims they are the ones who are not following the dictates of their religion i.e. non-practicing Muslims. Those latter ones are commonly referred to as infidels and /or apostates by their practicing coreligionists.

to mlandersmd,

Your understanding of Islam and the Muslim world seems to be self-serving. Yes there are bad policies and bad behavior amongst them, but the overall message/people does not fit your image.

It would be the same as considering all jews to be money-grubbing crooks who will take your money away before you even know what happened (i.e. most financial crimes and the biggest one have jewish last names associated withthem)

How about the judeo-christian policy of overwhelming force killing women and children (US in Iraq and Afganistan, Israel in Palestine) does that make all jews and christian guilty?

I was hoping that this president would be an honest broker between israel and the Palestinian, but after I heard him say that the US will always support israel dont matter what, in few words all the war crimes committed by israel does not matter to him , he will support israel.He wants peace in the middle east? Its a sad joke

Wasn't it nice to 'not' find a weapons cache in a church on american soil. maybe that impression can be taught to the muslim world.

An approach based on dignity and equality will be lost on most adherents of any culture which denies dignity and equality to its women.

When threat and condescension - in the form of thrown acid, death to image-makers and alien proselytizers, and gender-based denial of priveleges and rights - are the cornerstones erected, maintained, and espoused by the individuals, goverernments and canon of a culture, foreign observers are not obligated to reach out in any way.

Any culture based on tenets contradictory to the tenets I am obligated to defend by virtue of my humanity must first show recognition of the flaws built into the fabric of it's creation and the rules of its adherents' daily lives, and then show an ability and willingness to change. Only then will I support efforts by my governmental leaders to reach out.

What I know of any culture is what I see on the sidewalks where I live, the headlines I read, and the headlines I don't read. When I read of million-person marches denouncing the firing of rockets across borders into civilian areas by governing parliamentary bodies representing their culture, when I read of the abolishment of centuries-old cultural proscriptions intended to hold a gender down, when I read of the extermination of terrorists by outraged members of their own culture, I will know it is time to reach out.

Whenever I hear the people that have ethnically cleansed 4 continents, and counting, started 2 world wars, if you don’t count the attacks on Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon and Palestine as a world war, enslaved one continent as a form of international, government protected economic system, colonized the last of the inhabited continents to pillage the resources for hundreds of years and overthrew democracies across the middle east, Algeria, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Palestine, whenever I hear these people, the judoChristians , talking about the violence of Muslims I am reminded of the saying “do not ask to take the nit from your neighbors eye until you take the log from your own.”
Given that the vast majority of the world’s refugees are Muslim victims of judo Christians I think Jesus may have “misunderestimated” the scale of the differential. I also remember him saying something about hypocrisy.

Reaching out with a genuine desire to create understanding is often the first step towards creating a more peaceful world.

President Obama is a man to be respected and admired. His willingness to communicate touches something deep inside of me that feels oh, so good. Reagan was an actor portraying someone who seemed to communicate. Obama is the real thing.

I am proud that Barak Obama is the face of my country.

- Arye Michael Bender -

I disagree with most of what is being said here: Interfaith dialogue is exactly what we need. Jews and Christians and Muslims need to converse. Hindus and Muslims need to converse.

However, at the current time, unquestionably the brunt of the blame falls on Muslim world.

Whether you like it not, this is what has happened:

Islam = Terrorism

This is NOT what is Islam is about. This is NOT what most Muslims are about, but this IS what has happened recently.

Eboo and others,

Interfaith dialogue can wait.

What the world need right now is an INTRAfaith dialogue between MUSLIMS like Eeboo (are you really a believing muslim?) and MUSLIMS like the majority of Saudis, Pakistanis, etc.

Please stop wasting our time with child-like talk about peace between religions. That will happen when religions (especially Islam) are about peace and spirituality.

GET GOING ON THE INTRAFAITH DIALOGUE AMONG MUSLIMS. THE SOON-TO-BE-DEAD CHILDREN AND VICTIMS OF THE NEXT TERRORIST ATTACK ARE WAITING FOR YOU, EBOO.

“Mark my words,” Biden said, “it will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy.” - Oct 19, 2008

Ben,
Them paying taxes and not breaking the law means nothing, as political Islam is an even greater threat than potential suicide bombers.

These same problems stemming from the Islamic world were happening long before the USA even existed. You are the ignorant one to blame us.

Interfaith dialogue is a con by Muslims. If they wanted to change things they need to have talks within their own community.

Funny how there is no need for interfaith talks between Jews and Christians. Muslims need to learn to stop complaining about what offends them and keep their religion to themselves.

No one should be reaching out to Muslims. One only has to look across the world to see their agenda, it is time to end all Muslim immigration.

Yusuf let me know when the Islamic world stops preaching hatred towards non-Muslims and shows us respect instead of its usual one-way street. Nice to see that you support the Wahhabi ISNA.

American Muslims

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/01/american-muslims-no-different-from-rest.html

LA rally

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/01/lapro-hamas-rally-use-jews-as-fossil.html

We all need a course on the Five Steps to Deprogram/"Deflaw" Islam:

A summary of said course-

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.

"1. Belief in Allah"

"aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gib Gnab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "creationist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."
A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels/"pwtfft"s to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.
Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."
Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Accept these five "cleansers" and we guarantee a complete recovery from Islamic ways and thoughts.

kregger :
Long before GW Bush even thought of invading Afghanistan and Iraq, Muslims were committing acts of terror against the US (recall the 1993 WTC bombing, the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing, the attacks on US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania).

I'm still waiting for the Muslim world to reach out to Americans in light of these acts of terror.
-----------------------------------
I am American, but not a Zionest, in which I think you are?
It is our short sight we always blame Muslims for recent terror act they might had committed against us, but for our ignorance, and our momery lapse, we can't remember what have being done to Muslims in the past on our hands. Our horrible actions committed against Muslims in 1948, we helped Israel to steal precious peice of land" Palestine"?
in the '40's of last century, we stole their oil at cheap price in meddling with an old Saud family to deal with on the account of the rest of the Arabs, and, unfortunately, we still are supporting this family by forging a legal status to keep her in power to promot any issue we pass through her to futher any project for our benefit in that area?
in 1953 we aborted a coup against the Shah family in Iran, because the Shah is our poppet, and against his people?
Our bases planted all over that area with out the concent of the Arab or Muslim people. Our troop commit so many violation and brake every rule over there with out accountabilty to their wrong doing, and can't be governed by the laws of these countries.
We uninvited enterfere in the Arab & Muslim countries affair: let me just make it very close to remember, can you see what our missiles are killing in Pakistan- today about 20 pakistanis were killed- inspite of Pakistan government objection? We use our muscles, before we use diplomacy? In Palestine, our full support to Israel??
Let alone Pakistan enterferance, Iraq & Afghanistan?
The good thing, we are able, now, to buy or induce the Arab, and Muslim leaders, but the bad thing what are we going to do when this bulk of people 1.5 Billion wake up?

kregger :
Long before GW Bush even thought of invading Afghanistan and Iraq, Muslims were committing acts of terror against the US (recall the 1993 WTC bombing, the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing, the attacks on US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania).

I'm still waiting for the Muslim world to reach out to Americans in light of these acts of terror.
-----------------------------------
I am American, but not a Zionest, in which I think you are?
It is our short sight we always blame Muslims for recent terror act they might had committed against us, but for our ignorance, and our momery lapse, we can't remember what have being done to Muslims in the past on our hands. Our horrible actions committed against Muslims in 1948, we helped Israel to steal precious peice of land" Palestine"?
in the '40's of last century, we stole their oil at cheap price in meddling with an old Saud family to deal with on the account of the rest of the Arabs, and, unfortunately, we still are supporting this family by forging a legal status to keep her in power to promot any issue we pass through her to futher any project for our benefit in that area?
in 1953 we aborted a coup against the Shah family in Iran, because the Shah is our poppet, and against his people?
Our bases planted all over that area with out the concent of the Arab or Muslim people. Our troop commit so many violation and brake every rule over there with out accountabilty to their wrong doing, and can't be governed by the laws of these countries.
We uninvited enterfere in the Arab & Muslim countries affair: let me just make it very close to remember, can you see what our missiles are killing in Pakistan- today about 20 pakistanis were killed- inspite of Pakistan government objection? We use our muscles, before we use diplomacy? In Palestine, our full support to Israel??
Let alone Pakistan enterferance, Iraq & Afghanistan?
The good thing, we are able, now, to buy or induce the Arab, and Muslim leaders, but the bad thing what are we going to do when this bulk of people 1.5 Billion wake up?

Katz,

Since 94% of Israelis applauded the savage raid on Gaza, and, we're told, thought the deaths of children were just fine, necessary for 'defense',

and since no American jews came forward to
decry it, why is it not correct to see that behavior as all of a piece?

The UN, Amnesty International and the Red Cross see it as a slaughter and war crimes. But we're supposed to TIP TOE around it as usual, as we did
jenin, lebanon, etc etc and etc.? Enough.

Katz,

Since we're told 94% of the israelis were in favor of the gaza massacre...thought the deaths of children were fine, just part of 'defense'..

and no Jews in America came forward to condem it,
as the rest of the world HAS,

I don't know why we're to be constrained about
condeming it. Did you come forward, did you mind the horros that the Red Cross and Amnesty International and the UN have named?

"the Obama administration intends to approach 1/5 of humanity with a sense of dignity and equality, instead of threat and condescension"

Bravo! I feel we are making some essential progress here.

Dear Azizk,

While I am deeply opposed to the Israeli bombardament and invasion of Gaza, your smear of all "Jews" is unproductive and sad. Surely you do not want all Muslims associated with the wrongdoing of individual subgroups, and Jews deserve the same degree of human dignity (and of basic accuracy).

Yeah, right on, Kregger! I can't believe those darn Muslims sailed over here and attacked us in Beirut!! How dare they?!

I think I see your point, but the truth is a fair bit more complicated than you indicate. For one thing, America and "the Muslim world" are not mutually incompatible. There are millions of Muslim Americans and legal residents, almost all of whom are peaceful, law abiding, tax paying citizens.

For another thing, while you may, through igonorance or argument, be unaware of some less than savory American involevement in the Muslim world that far predates 9/11 (the 1953 coup in Iran orchestrated by the CIA, propping up medieval monarchs in Saudi Arabia and the gulf states to procure cheap oil, fairly uncritical support for Israel) that doesn't mean that Muslims are unaware of that History.

President Obama is to be congratulated for taking this overdue step.

The sentence that made real sense to me in the new president‘s address is him saying “ We are not apologizing for our culture and whoever tries to subvert it will be fought and defeated“. I furthermore am sick of hearing that 1.5 billions or 1/5 of the world population belong to a certain faith as if that should oblige us to grant them a preferential treatment. Are those billions a monolith with the same interests regarding every issue. Has all those numbers been willing OR able to save the people of Gaza from the wrath of tiny Israel? It is time that some people realize that it is quality and not quantity that counts.

President Obama is wise to reach out to the Muslim world. With our financing, Israel built a wall around her neighbors from which even superman can’t escape. From their experiences in Christian Europe, Israelis know of the helplessness of being walled in. She is now free to starve, keep impoverished, weak or even to rain down, as was gas in Europe, upon innocent people all the death and destruction of which she is USA made capable. Like a spoil child, who spits on you and runs back to mommy (an unseeing USA), Israel is acting similarly. The holocaust, in Europe, never ended. It was pushed, by Christians, upon the Arabs. They are the victims of the ongoing holocaust. If God is behind such sustained and murderous evil between His children, as many claim, then why do we need Satan? Satan can relax!! And, why would God ask me to not do evil? If He is behind the murderous mess in the Middle East as is imputed to Him by many, then isn't he doing it, Himself, and is therefore guilty of being a hypocrite?

Also, the new President needs to keep one eye over his shoulder 24/7 for beautiful seductive women smiling easily and coyly. I see a quarter billion dollar trap being set to get him caught in a compromising position. The woman and her consorts, who accomplish it, will be very rich but Obama will be in disgrace. That’s the idea. Consequently, he should avoid, at all cost, being alone with any woman, Democrat, Republican, pretenders or whatever, who is not his wife. Don’t talk to, look at, stare at, gaze at or touch any woman except in an official capacity. And even in an official capacity, do no touching. If any woman gives him a coy look, he should immediately call 911. The phone setup should be such that all he would need do is punch one button and 911 is dialed. If circumstances force such a position upon him, cameras should be rolling and microphones open at all times. Preferably however, barring a national emergency, any such meeting should be put off until others are present. The greatest danger he faces is his own self. In that he is young, rich, handsome and powerful, he will be targeted by a vast assortment of seducers. Maybe, he should hire some, who would be tasked to keep him on guard for this danger, which shall surely follow him for the duration of his Presidency.

Yes it is great that he is reaching out to Muslims.

But why was he absolutely mute during the jewish savagry and barbarity on Gaza with over 7000 Palestinian casualties and the destruction of civilian infrastructure-which "the only democracy" in the ME embarked on to punish them for the only democrcay in the Arab World?

Why did he equate the victimized with the aggrssor?? Are over 7000 Palestinians murdered and maimed and overwhelmingly civilian, women and children, equal to ten dead jewish soldiers equal?

Unless Obama breaks the back and the stranglehold of AIPAC and jewish yoke over America especially its foreign policy-no peace is possible in the Arab East.

Senator Mitchell is undoutedly a competent man with credibility-but the jewish occupiers will find a way to derail him as they did last time while jewish settlements continue bloom like mushrooms as we speak.

Respect is a two-way street; when is the Muslim world going to reach out to America? Why is that it is always the US that needs to make all the concessions and apologies and accommodations when the Muslim world fails to return the favor?

Long before GW Bush even thought of invading Afghanistan and Iraq, Muslims were committing acts of terror against the US (recall the 1993 WTC bombing, the 1983 Beirut barracks bombing, the attacks on US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania).

I'm still waiting for the Muslim world to reach out to Americans in light of these acts of terror.

Great comments by President Obama in recognizing different religions and the non-believers. Hopefully this will spread to all nations in the world for lasting peace and happiness. There should not be Christian, Muslim or other nations- just nations where people practice different faiths or no faith. The most fundamental freedom the Creator(s)- He or She- has granted every individual is the ability to practice what one believes in. And the ability to change one's mind as one becomes more knowledgeable.