"I'm confident that most Americans, seeing the stark choice between Kerry's hearing and Wilders' film, will choose the best of our nation instead of the worst of someone else's country."

I wish I could be so confident. Give Americans a choice between passive entertainment (like a movie) and an actual discussion where they have to engage the brain, I think the majority will choose passivity every single time...

Some people are never going to give any credit to Muslims for anything. There is a filter of prejudice with which they say Muslims and Islam.

The same Wikpedia also states:

"However, Al-Ghazali does express support for a scientific methodology based on demonstration and mathematics, while discussing astronomy. After describing the scientific facts of the solar eclipse resulting from the Moon coming between the Sun and Earth and the lunar eclipse from the Earth coming between the Sun and Moon, he writes:[8]
Whosoever thinks that to engage in a disputation for refuting such a theory is a religious duty harms religion and weakens it. For these matters rest on demonstrations, geometrical and arithmetical, that leave no room for doubt."

Ibn Rushd's (AVERROES)" works were spread over 20,000 pages covering a variety of different subjects, including early Islamic philosophy, logic in Islamic philosophy, Arabic medicine, Arabic mathematics, Arabic astronomy, Arabic grammar, Islamic theology, Sharia (Islamic law), and Fiqh (Islamic jurisprudence). In particular, his most important works dealt with Islamic philosophy, medicine and Fiqh. He wrote at least 67 original works, which included 28 works on philosophy, 20 on medicine, 8 on law, 5 on theology, and 4 on grammar, in addition to his commentaries on most of Aristotle's works and his commentary on Plato's The Republic.[4]
He wrote commentaries on most of the surviving works of Aristotle. ..."

"His most important original philosophical work was The Incoherence of the Incoherence (Tahafut al-tahafut), in which he defended Aristotelian philosophy against al-Ghazali's claims in The Incoherence of the Philosophers (Tahafut al-falasifa). Al-Ghazali argued that Aristotelianism, especially as presented in the writings of Avicenna, was self-contradictory and an affront to the teachings of Islam.
SOME EXPECT THAT THESE SCHOLARS SHOULD HAVE BEEN ATHIESTS. Isn't it too much to expect?

HSKNJW suggests:

“Educated people should read Ghazali, Averroes, and Rumi before they throw stones at any other religion.”
Moi:
Alghazali and Roumi had both contributed more than anyone else toward the slippery slope of Muslim civilization toward the Dark Age it is in now. While the Mu’tazaleh led by AlRazi and Aviecenna gave primacy to free will over predestination, and argued something like ”I lift my hand because I will it first and then marshal forces within my body to execute my brain order", the followers of AlGhazali and Roomi explained it as “ It is God’s will that I lift my hand”

Wikepedia:
“The decline set in when the puritan Al-Ghazali began to undermine this rationalistic tradition and instead push for dogma over thought, obedience over free will and the primacy of doctrine. It was the beginning of the end as Al-Ghazali strove to put a stop to the tradition that had cultivated the greatest of the Islamic thinkers and instead stifle the unbridled creativity of the Islamic world."

Wikepedia:
“the civilization of Islam began to falter as ‘Destiny’ persevered over reason and logic-and Lenient ecclesiastical and priestly control once again tightened over the free Muslim people. With the will of Allah sufficing to explain everything risk no longer matter and Muslim commerce began to dramatically suffer. The banking and finance capitals that could have emerged in the coastal cities and regions of Alexandria, the Yemen and Sumatra, as rivals to Europe were stemmed in their infancy.“

Conclusion: If I were you I would try to forget about this character and the others like him.

Wilders is simply pointing out all the horror done via the guidance of the "worst book ever written" aka the koran. Said book was generated by the hallucinations of one long dead Arab who supposedly got his instructions from a "pretty, wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingie" named Gabriel. It all makes one scream out "THE SIGNIFICANT STUPIDITY OF ISLAM!!!!

Rednova,

Any sensible person would oppose Islam. The most liberal, anti-(organized religion) thinkers like Christopher Hitchens (British), Sam Harris (American) are also very much opposed to Islamic culture and Islamic doctrines. So, it is not only Geert Wilders, but some who are self-confessed liberals.

Do you have any take on these two notables like Hitchens and Harris, other playing a broken record of Hindus vs. Muslims and India vs. Pakistan ?

I have a collection of four blog entries on Wilders' visit to Boston.

The URL is http://eaazi.blogspot.com/2009/03/collection-wilders-visit-to-boston.html .

Many of the Overseas Hindus of India are big times supporters of the fascist Bharatiya Janta Party (BJP). The magazine COLORLINES describes an interesting episode right here in America. Here are somean excerpts:

Spring 2005

Saffron Dollars

By Suleman Din

"Patrons of Hate?

On the surface, supporters of Hindu nationalists in the U.S. do not appear to be stridently fanatic about religion. Many are affluent and well-educated, working in corporations, living in middle-class suburban neighborhoods, with families. "

"This undercurrent of communal attitudes is worrisome to secular Indians, Indian Muslims and Hindus not aligned with the nationalists. They claim India’s ethnic hatred has found a patron in the U.S., through the contributions of Hindu nationalists who have settled in here, and that other Indian Americans are unwittingly donating money to their cause because they do not know the true intent of their work."

One central focus of their concerns in the U.S. is a Maryland-based charity called the India Development and Relief Fund, which is accused by secular Indian groups of raising millions for Hindu nationalist groups in India alleged to be involved in the harassment and killings of Indian Christians and Muslims.

Fiery Nationalism

Inside a basement classroom at Hunter College, Teesta Setalvad, the Hindu editor of Communalism Combat, a secularist Indian magazine that reports exclusively on the country’s ethnic and religious tensions, had been invited to speak about violence between Hindu nationalists and the Muslim and Christian minorities.

She described atrocities—gang rapes, arson and murder—in India being committed by Hindu nationalists against Muslims and Christians, who together in India make up 170 million people. Little had been done to address the crimes, she said. In fact, she claimed members of the government and police were guilty of encouraging the violence.

“We have to take on the growing problem of Hindu militarism and all forms of religious fundamentalism,” Setalvad said, adding later: “We don’t want India to develop into a Hindu rashtra [nation].”

Members of the audience jumped as Setalvad finished her speech. But instead of asking questions, they yelled accusations that she was a communist and a Muslim terrorist sympathizer.

“Your forefathers converted [from Hinduism] because they were cowards!” yelled one man, backed up by a group of women wearing saris around their waists and bindis on their foreheads.

A college student yelled back, “Go back to India and stay there, you fanatics!”

DebChatterjie,

By your name I assume you're an Indian. Being so, I can understand your unrepentant anger at everything Pakistan, but do you have to bring it into this conversation about Mr. Wilders?

Wilders is a rightwing thug; the Jorg Haider, the scorned ultranationalist who likes to provoke and incite and then claims victimhood when his victims on the receiving end protest.

One poster even likened him to the Somali want a be Dutch politican Aayan Hirsi Maagan (who lied on her immigration asylum application to gain a fake Dutch citizenship and subsequently fled to America and in the arms of the neocon AEI).

This is why I like Patel's post, esp. his ending. When America is at its best, Europe sends its worst. There was a recent story about African witch killings by Christian pastors and atheist pagans. The day the demagogue Wilders calls out the athiests, pagans, and Christians for such scrutiny as he does his favorite kicking toy, Islam, that's the day we liberals can take this fool seriously.

HSNKHWJ:

You searched Wikipedia and discovered

"In July 2002, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, a British national of Pakistani origin, was sentenced to death by hanging for Pearl's abduction and murder.[3][4].

In March 2007, at a closed military hearing in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said that he had personally beheaded Pearl.[5][6]"

How is this factually any different than what I wrote, without searching Wikipedia, as quoted below:

"The British-born Pakistani Omar Sheikh is still alive and fighting the death sentence that has been awarded to him.(Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, had confessed in his waterboarding escapade that he cut the throat of Daniel Pearl, and sliced it through and through with his own "blessed hands".)"

And again you asserted:

"AHMAD OMAR SAEED Sheikh was sentenced to death by hanging. Khalid Sheikh Mohammad's confession in a secret military court much later."

You must be having a problem with comprehension. Being sentenced to death by hanging does NOT mean that actually Ahmad Omar Saeed Sheikh has indeed died by hanging. Omar Sheikh has challenged his execution, and is yet to be hanged till he dies. Ahmad Omar Saeed Sheikh is STILL ALIVE in Pakistan. Check your sources. But, it is true he has been awarded the death penalty. (Check the accuracy of the facts you quote before you go ballistic on "fake claim of freedom of speech", etc.)

And, indeed if I am wrong on Omar Sheikh's status I would like some independent sources that would prove me wrong. Please cite sources that state very explicitly that Omar Sheikh is indeed DEAD.

Deb Chatterji:

Your fake claim of freedom of speech does not negate what I mentioned in my post:

This is what I found on wikpedia about Daniel Pearl:

Daniel Pearl
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Daniel Pearl (October 10, 1963 – February 1, 2002) was an American journalist who was kidnapped and murdered in Karachi, Pakistan. At the time of his kidnapping, Pearl served as the South Asia Bureau Chief of the Wall Street Journal, and was based in Mumbai, India. He went to Pakistan as part of an investigation into the alleged links between Richard Reid, the shoe bomber, and Al-Qaeda and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). He was subsequently beheaded by his captors.[1][2]

In July 2002, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, a British national of Pakistani origin, was sentenced to death by hanging for Pearl's abduction and murder.[3][4]

In March 2007, at a closed military hearing in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said that he had personally beheaded Pearl.[5][6]

AHMAD OMAR SAEED Sheikh was sentenced to death by hanging. Khalid Sheikh Mohammad's confession in a secret military court much later.
******************************************************

The point was that the Govt. of Pakistan based on their own intelligence made every effort to find the killer. It is possible that they executed the wrong person. Such wrong executions happen far more often in America than you would think.

Some individuals express intense hate for Muslims on this page. It is their Agenda to blame Muslims in every possible way they can.

On the subject of Fareed Zakaria and the killing of innocent civilians, some hate-filled people would be quite happy if innocent civilians in Afghanistan or Pakistan are killed. "After all they are Muslims". These individuals couldn't care less if such killings generate even more anti-American feelings in that part of the world.

President Obama has already acknowledged the military solutions must be accompanied by diplomacy.

Wilders is simply using religious hatred to win political power. It's cheap. It's easy. And it's precisely the same playbook used in Europe 70 years ago against another religious minority.

Of course, taking scripture out of context is a lot older than Islam...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=70a_1207232770

A couple of links for you:

The speech Wilders would've given to the House of Lords, were England a country that respected Freedom of Speech:
http://www.internationalfreepresssociety.org/2009/02/the-house-of-lords-speech-what-wilders%E2%80%99-would-have-said-if-the-uk-allowed-free-speech/

and another interesting news item from today, for those who think the man's politics are 'fringe':
http://www.radionetherlands.nl/news/zijlijn/6196336/Geert-Wilders-Freedom-Party-leads-polls

Perhaps I am wrong, but that Pakistan has "accomodated" the barbaric Taliban, it now appears that the strength of Taliban is to spread like a wildfire, and Times of India (ToI: labeled as a "anti-Pakistan Indian propaganda mouthpiece" by Pakistan) has this scary newsitem based on the Pakistani police report:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/Taliban-may-take-over-Karachi-Police-report/articleshow/4206722.cms

So, if the economic hub of Pakistan, Karachi, falls to the Taliban, and we in the USA criticize Taliban we might also end up in some way criticizing "orthodox" Islam. By existing facts, Fareed Zakaria and Eboo Patel would be unhappy because we (non-Muslims in a country practicing Free Speech) have criticized Taliban and Islam, respectively.

How does that sound when Pakistan will come begging for alms, donations and subsidies from USA ? (Note that US diplomat with UN is now under threat of being decapitated by militants in Quetta: again ToI link is given here

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/New-deadline-for-US-hostage-in-Pakistan/articleshow/4209907.cms?TOI_latestnews

)

As to the UK barring Wilders, that's easily researched. A certain lord who is muslim threatened to bring a large crowd of angry muslims to the House of Lords to protest. The brits wussed out, fearing that counterdemonstrators would show up and the whole thing would turn into a riot. They didn't refuse him entry because of his beliefs. They refused him entry because they didn't want a 'scene'. The bulk of British opinion appears to have been on his side during that debacle, and embarassed by the refusal of entry, as they should be.

One more thing, and judge for yourself:

Mr Wilders lives in a far different place than we do here in the U.S. He lives in a country that has seen honor killings of young girls, consorship via murder in the streets, and a woman as brave as Ayaan Hirsi Ali hounded away from political life by religious fanatic thugs.

The response seems to have been *accomodation* in the form of mild (for now) Sharia law. Special laws for a special group that doesn't feel as though they have to make any effort to abide by the laws of the land they chose to emigrate to.

Are all of his views completely rational? Probably not, but then his opposition is hardly guilty of being too rational themselves. Does he have reason to fear for the future of his country, which prides itself on its tolerance and liberal approach to one another? Yes, it appears that he does.

Also, he is referred to frequently as a 'right-wing' politician. In some European sense that may be true, but he would *never* make the cut for that label here in the U.S. His acceptance of the gay community in his country alone would preclude it. So there is some BS at work when you see that term flung around in an American paper.

HSNKHWJ wrote:

"I suspect that you did not know that Daniel Peral's killer was captured, tried in a court of law and put to death."

FALSE. The British-born Pakistani Omar Sheikh is still alive and fighting the death sentence that has been awarded to him. (Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, had confessed in his waterboarding escapade that he cut the throat of Daniel Pearl, and sliced it through and through with his own "blessed hands".) In Pakistan, the cause of Islam trounces any democratic norm that the non-Muslim countries are aware of. Thus, Omar Sheikh's death penalty is a charade; he is considered as a hero by Muslims in Pakistan because Daniel Pearl was a Jew and that too an American. Just as the Jewish couple was killed in the 26/11 in Mumbai, so the
slaughter of Daniel Pearl is considered as a major
"victory" for Islam. I can guarantee, observing the growth of Taliban in pakistan, that if Omar Sheikh is hanged for helping Khalid Shaikh Mohammad to have Daniel Pearl decapitated, then the entire Pakistan will be up in flames.

Islamic terrorists (including the Taliban) have often cited how Prophet Muhammad spared no infidel (Jew, Christians and Pagans) who refused to convert to Islam and put up any form of resistance against Prophet's preaching or call to convert and embrace Islam.

It is a shame how Fareed Zakaria (an influential Muslim intellcetual in the American media elite) advocates an appeasement policy for the Taliban in SWAT, while sensible Pakistani reporters like Irfan Hussain are scared stiff of the same group of Islamists (Taliban). Finally I wonder if Eboo Patel would advocate the same "tolerance" for Geert Wilders as he is doing on this blog, if Eboo were living in a predominantly Muslim country (or even a country where Muslims are prominent like India) ? I believe that Eboo Patel is all for double-speak. In USA say one thing, in another country say something else.

HSNKHWJ

True, but the majority of Americans did NOT support the goals of someone like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolf, Rev Jones. It appears based on much evidence, including the study I sited below in this comment section that the majority (or near majority of the Muslim world) does support the goals of Osama. Only Muslims can do something about that. It is NOT up to us Non-Muslims to fix your problems fitting in to the modern world. Until the Muslim world accepts some kind of 21st century understanding of women’s rights, free speech, etc, there is going to be no peace between western and Islamic civilizations. This also includes Muslim immigrants to the western world.

The OIC has claimed that the Prophet of Islam, Muhammad is off-limits to criticism. That is their “red-line” for which the Islamic world will NOT compromise on. Well, as a westerner, free speech is my “red-line” for which I will NOT compromise on, which means Muhammad and Islam are fair game. I feel most westerners, despite what the mealy mouth political leadership of today says, agree with me. This means there will be no compromise on this issue. Either Muslims will have to accept free speech living in the west, or Non-Muslims will have to accept limits on freedom of speech in the west.

I would prefer death before I give up my right to free speech and my right to be critical of Islam and Muhammad….

My line, my Rubicon…

hsnkhwj writes:
"So, you are saying that the issue is the judicial system."

_______________________________________

No, I'm saying that support for perpetrators of death against the "other" is different among other cultures and Muslim majority cultures have wide support, enough for openly terrorist groups in the name of Islam, to survive, even thrive. The same cannot be said for the West.

edbyronadams:

I suspect that you did not know that Daniel Peral's killer was captured, tried in a court of law and put to death.

So, you are saying that the issue is the judicial system. No doubt, the judicial systems are different in different countries. I am no expert as to how American judicial process succeeds or fails. It is for legal experts to decide.

The fact remains that people like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolf, Rev Jones do exist in every society, including America.

hsnkhwj wrote:

"Oh really? How long ago was it that Timothy McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City?

How long ago did the Army of God fanatics bombed numerous abortion clinics in America?

How long ago did Rev. Jim Jones of Jonestown, Guyana, killed one of our Congress men and then led his followers to mass suicide?"

____________________________________

The difference is the tolerance of surrounding society, read Christian if you want to, to these
perpetrators.

All were busted fairly quickly by the society in which they lived. Eric Rudolf was caught because he was dumpster diving for a living.

Contrast that with Muslim majority societies in which foul perpetrators find long term refuge and sustenance. Forgiveness for honor killings and wife beatings is routine.

Every tribe and culture has its nutjobs. The difference is in the general support by the tribes that allow the bigger atrocities.

The question becomes is Geert Wilders wrong? It is primarily in Muslim countries Mr. Patel that one cannot freely practice religion. How about that American value? You say the first step is showing respect for our fellow human beings. I agree, but that lesson needs to be taught to the Muslim world. Your Alice in Wonderland revisionism which makes the West the bad guy is sickening. We are not cutting off heads or conducting honor killings. Your politically correct interfaith BS is misdirected.

Thank you for your very enlightened viewpoints on handling a situation that my be rattling many peoples' sentiments. Giving too much notice to a person who spouts messages of religious hatred might draw more attention to it and ignoring it might make it seem acceptable. Questioning it's worth against American values shows a desire for reconciliation since we are so many different peoples here and we need to have room for everyone if we are to coexist. I say we should listen to what he has to say but do the same for rebuttal and for presentation of questions. If we teach our children to silence people whose viewpoints are different from theirs instead of teaching them to listen and dialogue, they are only going to learn another form of extremism.

DebChatterjee:

The word appeasement is your interpretation of Fareed Zakaria's view. Neither he nor I nor any other educated Muslim is supporter of the Taliban. As a matter of fact, many of us think that Taliban is a cancer in Afghanistan and the border areas of Pakistan.

The problem is that by bombing using drones has killed numerous innocent men, women, and children. That generates anti-American feelings in the masses. Dawn has reported this numerous times. Even President Karzai has condemned killings of civilians.

So, Fareed Zakaria and many others in Pakistan and Afghanistan have advocated a long term strategy--the strategy of changing the mind sets of the people through liberal arts education, economic development, and employment.

By the way, Fareed Zakaria is of Indian origin and has always represented pro-Indian views on television.

Can you not tolerate even one Muslim journalist in America? BY the way, you are nobody. You are irrelevant.

HSNKHWJ:

The following is a chilling reminder of Taliban's prowess. From DAWN, the official newspaper of Pakistan.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/swat-deal-grave-implications-pakistan--qs

and a scathing article by syndicated columnist Irfan Hussain:

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/Dawn%20Content%20Library/dawn/news/pakistan/the-sound-of-taliban-laughing-ha

Sad, that someone like Fareed Zakaria has now been advocating appeasement of these brutes. However, this shows the quintessential mindset of the Muslim "ulema" at large. (Most, but certainly not all, Muslims do advocate appeasement of Taliban like Fareed Zakaria.)

The members of the Muslim "ulema" has often accused the non-Muslim world of conspiring to weaken Islamic governments and alleged that these non-Muslim world/governments/nations have an agenda of linking terrorism with Islam. This is an emotional issue, and the West/non-Muslim world often finds itself on the defensive.

But, it is little understood/realized/propagated that it is basically Muslims (and educated ones) who for no reason advocate apeasement between their fanatical brothers, and, the non-Muslim world. Fareed Zakaria (with such a high profile) is just doing that. What he is effectively advocating is that let the Talibans roam freely in Pakistan's SWAT valley and if they are not associated with Al-Qaeda the west must go for a appeasement with Taliban. Also in his CNN GPS link, Fareed Zakaria admits that radical Islam is on the rise, and considers it as a threat. So, if it is indeed a threat, why appease threats ? Stockholm syndrome ?

And, finally HSNKHWJ or whatever BJP/RSS/Bajrang Dal/Shiv Sena have not been able to cite passages from the Hindu scriptures to justify their vandalism/opprobious tactics. The Taliban has always quited the Quran to make their case and Fareed Zakaria's implicit support for their (Taliban) existence raises suspicions that I have voiced before: no Muslim can be trusted when it comes to Islamic causes.

P.S.: I am not going to respond to any rebuttals. All I would predict is that Obama and Democrats would lose the next election more on this issue: war against Islam, or, war against radical Islam ?

The liberated view of Christianity: (for those eyes that have not seen)

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current RCC crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology.

Deb Chatterji:

Fareed Zakaria is making a political argument and not a religious argument, as I understand.

The political argument is that we need to change the world view of the masses in Afghanistan and of the Taliban. Changing world view or mind set takes generations through liberal arts education, raising standards of living,and economic development. Bombs don't change mindsets. President Obama essentially say the same thing.

CCNL claims to be "liberated". In reality, he is far from his goal. He quickly reverted to Christianity.

Deb Chatterji is back criticizing Fareed Zakaria now.

He should look in the mirror and look at the views of so-called BJP, RSS, Bajrang Dal leaders like Modi, Advani, Singhal, Joshi, Vajpayee and many more.

Our War on Terror and Aggression:

An update (or how we are spending or how we have spent the USA taxpayers’ money to eliminate global terror and aggression)

The terror and aggression via a Partial and Recent Body Count

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops, 3,402 combat and 822 non-combat) and 90,253 – 98,521I raqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

Other elements of our War on Terror:

1. Saddam, his sons and major henchmen have been deleted. Saddam's bravado about WMD was one of his major mistakes.

2. Iran is being been contained. (beside containing the Sunni-Shiite civil war in Baghdad, that is the main reason we are in Iraq. And yes, essential oil continues to flow from the region.)

3. Libya has become almost civil. Recently Libya agreed to pay $1.5 billion to the victims of their terrorist activities Apparently this new reality from an Islamic country has upset OBL and his “crazies” as they have threatened Libya. OBL sure is a disgrace to the world especially the Moslem world!!! Or is he???

4. North Korea is still uncivil but is contained. With the opening up of rail traffic between North and South Korea after 50 years and with the assistance of the US Navy in retrieving NK ships and personnel hopefully a fresh sense of civility is afoot.

5. North Korea was taken off the terrorist country list recently.

6. Northern Ireland is finally at peace.

7. The Jews and Palestinians are being separated by walls. Hopefully the walls will follow the 1948 UN accords and the Annapolis Peace Conference is at least somewhat successful. Unfortunately the recent events in Gaza has put this situation back to “square one”. And this significant stupidity is driven by the mythical foundations of both religions!!!

8. Bin Laden has been cornered under a rock in Western Pakistan since 9/11.

9. Fanatical Islam has basically been contained to the Middle East but a wall between India and Pakistan would be a plus for world peace. Ditto for a wall between Afghanhistan and Pakistan.

10. Timothy McVeigh was executed. Terry Nichols will follow soon.

11. Eric Rudolph is spending three life terms in prison with no parole.

12. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Kaczynski, the "nuns" from Rwanda, and the KKK were all dealt with and either eliminated themselves or are being punished.

13. Islamic Sudan, Darfur and Somalia are still terror hot spots.

14. The terror and torture of Muslims in Bosnia, Kosovo and Kuwait were ended by the proper application of the military forces of the USA and her freedom-loving friends. Radovan Karadzic was finally captured on 7/23/08 and is charged with genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of the law of war -- charges related to the 1992-1995 civil war that followed Bosnia-Herzegovina's secession from Yugoslavia.

15. And of course the bloody terror brought about the Japanese, Nazis and Communists was with great difficulty eliminated by the good guys.

Jhimmi:

The Inquisition and witches were mentioned to remind bigots of the saying: "Physician heal thyself". Those who live in glass houses don't throw stones at other peoples homes.

Educated people should read Ghazali, Averroes, and Rumi before they throw stones at any other religion.

How long ago was it that Timothy McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City?

How long ago did the Army of God fanatics bombed numerous abortion clinics in America?

How long ago did Rev. Jim Jones of Jonestown, Guyana, killed one of our Congress men and then led his followers to mass suicide?

Did these things happen minutes ago, hours ago, days ago, weeks ago, months ago or during the last quarter of a century? Don't you know that TIME IS RELATIVE?

What do we make of Catholics and Protestants of Northern Ireland terrorizing the population there for more than four centuries?

Do only Islamophobes have a right to malign Muslims? They go berserk when they are confronted with facts contrary to their diatribes.

Eboo Patel recognizes that people of different faiths must reach out to one another for interfaith understanding. A dialog requires looking both inward and outward.

I just happened upon a translation of the Quran where the Muslim translator said mainstream Islam was glorifying Mohammed too much:

"the idolization of Mohammed created
unauthorized and unreasonable regulations called ``Sunna of the Prophet.'' This created a totally different religion."

I thought, wow, here's a guy who could actually steer mainstream Islam away from its propensity for violent imitation of Mohammed. Then I found out he was murdered by another Muslim at a Tuscon mosque.

For those who like to bring up the Inquisition or witch trials, I have a question - do you WANT to live under a global Inquisition? If you think the Inquisition and the witch trials were wrong, and you're comparing them with today's Islam, then apparently we're in agreement.

Brave men and women lost their lives fighting against extremism like the Inquisition and the Salem witch trials. These things could have grown into worldwide, mainstream phenomena, but they didn't.

Mainstream Islam is becoming more extreme. When Muslims claim Islam is peaceful or compatible with human rights, they may be sincere, but it comes off as defensive at best, disingenuous at worst. We know about the 8 year old brides, the apostates condemned to death, the unpunished honor killings, the truly persecuted Christians and Jews (much different than the treatment Muslims receive in the West).

I don't see how Islam will every change. Mohammed consummated a marriage to a 9 year old girl, he decapitated his enemies, he led brutal conquests of lands, and the Quran, which is straight from Allah, says Mohammed is the best role model.

http://www.lemondrop.com/2009/02/10/8-year-old-married-off-to-47-year-old-man/

I'm sure that Mr. Patel will dismiss the above as just another slight blimp on the way to the Muslim Enlightenment.

What more is there to say?

I'll refrain from 'fulminating' and making Muslims 'angry'. However Eboo is to be excused. Why ? The Postglobal owner Fareed Zakaria even admits that compromising with the Taliban is a 'good thing'. He suggests that because Taliban have not been involved in any form of 'global jihad' they should be left alone and compromise be sought. This is exactly what I have been skeptical of these so-called 'moderate' Muslims who appear to look western but are inwardly supporters or advocates of propagation of radical Islam. The CNN link with Fareed Zakaria's statements are here:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/02/27/zakaria.gps.pakistan/index.html

There is no 'moderate' Muslim in my view, going by someone as educated as Fareed Zakaria's views.

Dear Mr. Patel

How is Mr. Wilders film wrong? You say it is hate, but it only quotes parts of the Quran, and than shows Muslims either living out those quotes, or gives speeches by Muslims using those quotes. That is not hate or wrong, but fact.

I would like to point you to a new comprehensive poll done in the Islamic world which in many ways proves Wilders is right, which is Islam is not just a religion but a political system. See the new major study by WorldPublicOpinion which shows that although the majority of Muslims don’t agree with Osama bin Laden’s methods, that they do agree with his goals, which is the strict enforcement of Sharia law (Islamic Law) on not only the Islamic world, but the entire world. Islamic law (for those that don’t know) of course means women and non-Muslims are treated as un-equals to Muslim males under the law, means no free speech, means homosexuals are killed or banished, means apostates (those who leave Islam) are killed. For example 65% of Egyptians and 76% of Pakistanis want Islamic Law. It gets even worse in places like the Palestinian territories. So if the ultimate goals of Islam are not just other worldly, but in fact very much of this world, Islam is not just a religion, but a political system. People should be critical of it! Islam should be treated no different than any other idea, political system, or yes even religion. That is what Greet Wilders is doing with this film. That is not hate, but pointing out some troubling facts, that if are not corrected by Muslims themselves, will continue to be a source of division between Western and Islamic civilizations.

No real peace can occur by covering up facts. Any real lover of liberty, freedom, and individualism would understand this. Those that stand with liberty (I care not what political party you belong to) should support Wilders, not just because of his right to freedom of speech, but because real debate means being critical. Islam deserves to be criticized. That is fair. If you think Wilders is wrong, fine, have a debate with him and prove him wrong, otherwise you prove to be against everything liberty stands for.

You say that eveyone wants respect. How do Muslims respect our culture and our laws by demanding that small children be separated by gender in grade school? How do Muslims respect our culture and laws by refusing to drive airport passengers who carry liquor or require seeing eye dogs? How many times have Hasidic Jews demanded that no one be allowed to drive on Fridays just because they choose not to do so? How many Catholics demand that everyone only eat fish on Friday during Lent? Respect my A**.

Eboo,

You cannot preach against bigotry for your own religious group alone. It won't fly. Second, you deny the truth when it gets very, very ugly,in your beloved India, as in the Dalit, honor killings, female feticide, bride burning, etc. And it's a big ETC.

You never deal with Muslim anti-semitism, which is inexcusable, end of discussion,just as any kind of religious or racial prejudice is quite without defense. Much, much worse than this pathetic little film has been permitted, indeed uttered within the White House.

And speaking of films, there is one I recall on the Rothchilds, hilarious, though not intentionally. Didn't read your comments on it, Eboo....How come?

Having seen this film, I find it hard to understand how it could be considered "offensive" except to the minority (?) of Muslim leaders and spokesmen (and their fanatical followers) that cite passages from the Koran, Hadith and Sunnah to justify violence.

I'm sure that most American Muslims view the exhortations to kill non-believers, Jews and homosexuals, and beat "disobedient" women as historical in context and not applicable to today's world, just as Jews and Christians view the violent passages of the Old Testament.

The problem, as I see it, is that Western commentators like Mr. Patel are more concerned with accusing people like Mr. Wilders with "Islamophobia" and bigotry than condemning the "scholars" and "leaders" shown in the film for their equally bigoted and hateful statements. After all, Mr. Wilders didn't make any of the statements documented in the film; he merely made the comparison. And, unfortunately, we are all too often reminded in the media that these "Muslim leaders" are taken very seriously in many Muslim majority countries, to the detriment of non-beleivers, women and minority Islamic sects.

Take away the reasons for his "Nazi" comparisons, and you'll be able to catoregize him with UFO nuts, black helicopter crazies and flat-earth nutjobs.

Until reform-minded Muslims loudly and roundly denounce the statements of these "leaders" at every opportunity and substansively work to remove them from the media stage, they will continue to be the subject of suspicion.

Wow, couldn't disagree with this article more.
Knowledge is power. Nothing in Fitna is contrived or staged.

Muslims who think it's reasonable to implement Sharia law in Western countries are the Muslim equivalent of Geert Wilders. A majority of Muslims worldwide support the imposition of Sharia in Western democracies, according to a recent survey.

Which Muslims should get the respect, the ones who interpret the Qur'an literally and follow the edicts to 'not take Jews and Christians as friends', who think that Jews are 'Apes and Pigs'? Is it ok to openly disrespect them, even though they follow the literal word of the Qur'an?

Did respect for Nazis make them soft and cuddly? It's unbelievable how a theocratic, fascist, totalitarian ideology like Islam can go around calling OTHER people racist, fascist, and disrespectful.

Islam demands respect, but it does not give respect.

All bigots should note that American political culture has always had a bipolar personality, at once tolerant and intolerant, inclusive and exclusionary. Anti-immigrant bigotry and religious intolerance have a long history in our country. Puritans hanged Quakers in Boston Common, signs proclaimed, "No Irish need apply," and laws prohibited Chinese immigrants from becoming citizens.

Benjamin Franklin expressed concern over foreign immigration in 1751. He feared the influx of German-speaking immigrants, who he said were not as white as the English. Franklin asked, "Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion."

The American Revolutionary leader Samuel Adams expressed the virulent anti-Catholic sentiment that was shared by many Americans at the time. In "The Rights of Colonists," a proclamation that was adopted by the town of Boston on Nov. 20, 1772, Adams wrote "that there shall be liberty of conscience allowed in the worship of God, to all Christians except Papists."

Catholics, or "Papists," could not be afforded religious tolerance, Adams said, because their allegiance to the pope meant that they "teach Doctrines subversive of the Civil Government under which they live." The fear and antipathy toward Catholicism among many Americans in the 18th and 19th centuries was as deeply felt as is the fear of Islam today.

The best antidote to religious intolerance, then or now, can be found in the words of Thomas Jefferson. In his "Notes on Virginia" in 1785, Jefferson said that alternative religious beliefs are not "injurious to others" and should not be restricted by government. "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

At Philadelphia in 1787, Jefferson's understanding of religious tolerance won out. Nowhere in the Constitution is it required to swear on a Bible, nor is even "swearing" required -- one may choose either oath or affirmation. Most important, according to Article VI, "no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

AMERICA BECAME AND STILL IS A GREAT NATION.

Thanks, Thomas Jefferson.

HSNKHWJ

thank you for posting about christianity. You provided proof that ALL religions are divisive, absurd, violent and controlling!

Great idea to show Guilders' religious/race baiting film-but do I have any takers for showing films regarding atrocities committed by Christians, Hindus and Jews???I am sure the Indian Hindu lobby would wholeheartedly endorse the viewing of films depicting hindu mobs murdering Muslims in the massacres in Gujarat and more recently its destruction of Christian churches while burning Indian Christians alive, while the AIPC-controlled Congress would fully endorse a Palestinian documentary on the war crimes committed by Israel and its Jewish IDF in Gaza over the past 60 years-Now THAT is what all you loyal FOX channel viewers would call "Fair and Balanced"!!

4:56 Lo! Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment. Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise.

Now there is some real tolerance!

PLeae, please, please... STOP with the lies about how Islam is peacefull and everybody is misunderstanding the overwelming facts. Muslim people are liers because that is what is half of the strategy to bring Islam in the world. They are required to lie in order to advance Islam - read Quran & Hadith about it:
Example can be found in the story of killing Shaaban Ibn Khalid al-Hazly. It was rumored that Shaaban was gathering an army to wage war on Mohammed. Mohammed retaliated by ordering Abdullah Ibn Anis to kill Shaaban. Again, the would-be killer asked the prophet's permission to lie. Mohammed agreed and then ordered the killer to lie by stating that he was a member of the Khazaa clan. When Shaaban saw Abdullah coming, he asked him, "From what tribe are you?" Abdullah answered, "From Khazaa." He then added, "I have heard that you are gathering an army to fight Mohammed and I came to join you." Abdullah started walking with Shaaban telling him how Mohammed came to them with the heretical teachings of Islam, and complained how Mohammed badmouthed the Arab patriarchs and ruined the Arab's hopes. They continued in conversation until they arrived at Shaaban's tent. Shaaban's companions departed and Shaaban invited Abdullah to come inside and rest. Abdullah sat there until the atmosphere was quiet and he sensed that everyone was asleep. Abdullah severed Shaaban's head and carried it to Mohammed as a trophy. When Mohammed sighted Abdullah, he jubilantly shouted, "Your face has been triumphant" Abdullah returned the greeting by saying, "It is your face, Apostle of Allah, who has been triumphant".

edbyronadams Author Profile Page:

I love the Muslim apologists who like to rummage around in Christian history from hundreds of years ago in an effort to prove equivalency with the Muslim world of today.

That is entirely the point. Muslims are not modern although they have access to modern weapons. Woe to us.
*********************************************************************

Oh really? How long ago was it that Timothy McVeigh bombed the federal building in Oklahoma City?

How long ago did the Army of God fanatics bombed numerous abortion clinics in America?

How long ago did Rev. Jim Jones of Jonestown, Guyana, killed one of our Congress men and then led his followers to mass suicide?

Did these things happen minutes ago, hours ago, days ago, weeks ago, months ago or during the last quarter of a century? Don't you know that TIME IS RELATIVE?

What do we make of Cathlics and Protestants of Northern Ireland terrorize the population there for more than four centuries?

ThomasBaum:

My previous posts were merely extracts from Internet.

Do only Islamophobes have a right to malign Muslims? They go berserk when they are confronted with facts contrary to their diatribes.

HSNKHWJ

Your post of 2-27-9 at 11:16 AM points out that it did not take very long to twist what Jesus taught.

Jesus not only taught but He did something that satan cannot undo and that is reconcile God and man, which is part of God's Plan.

Jesus extended the invitation to "Come follow Me", Jesus did not say: come follow My Church, follow the bible, follow those that will come to call themselves "Christians", no, His invitation was to "Come follow Me".

God's Plan which He has had since before creation is unfolding before our very eyes and will come to Fruition.

As I have said: God is a Trinity and is a Being of Pure Love and Jesus is God-Incarnate not a mere prophet.

God knew that not all would repent that is why He came up with His Plan.

God does not look at labels, God looks at the person.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

BILLY8

I wrote, "I have mentioned numerous times that I have met God and that God is a Trinity and that God is a BEING OF PURE LOVE and that Jesus is God-Incarnate not a mere prophet."

You replied, "SWEET!!! Another total lunatic!!!"

Time will tell.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

I love the Muslim apologists who like to rummage around in Christian history from hundreds of years ago in an effort to prove equivalency with the Muslim world of today.

That is entirely the point. Muslims are not modern although they have access to modern weapons. Woe to us.

Eboo Patel's response is hysterical. I have seen the Wilders film "Fitna", and it is an excellent film that all Americans should see. It is not a punch in the mouth to Muslims. It is a much-needed wake-up call about Jihadist Muslims' Koran-inspired culture of hate and death.

Mr. Patel, snap out of it, and stop making excuses for the crazies.

The people who misquote the Qur'an and bash Islam are here again. First, remember that Eboo Patel is Ismaili Muslim - a branch of Islam that does not breed intolerance. To my knowledge, there have been no terrorists from this branch of Islam.

The person who wrote that Qur'an 4:101 is singling out Christians and Jews does not understand the use of the word "infidel" (person without faith). The part he quoted is really about those who deny the truth. According to Islam, a person who believes in God, the last judgment, angels, performs prayer and acts in accord with right conduct is not an infidel. Clear thinking Muslims know that there are people who are Muslim in name who are "infidels" precisely because they carry out acts that belie what they say they believe. True faith involves both belief and action. Muslims like Eboo Patel know this. Readers here also need to learn this and not think that every Qur'anic reference to unbelievers and infidels is talking about all Christians, all Jews, all Hindus, etc.

There is violence everywhere. Print on your search engine: "Anti-Christian Violence in India" Here is an excerpt:

Anti-Christian Violence in India

Vinay Lal

At a Glance...

Anti Christian Violence

It is reasonable to argue that the ascendancy of the Bharatiya Janata Party [hereafter BJP] to relative supremacy in Indian politics over the course of the last few years bears a direct relationship to the considerable, even dramatic,increase in violence against Christians and other minorities in India. In this short paper, I shall be furnishing a brief chronicle of the recent violence, besides foraying, again briefly, into such questions as the politics of conversion, the inaccuracy of claims regarding the alleged growth of the Christian population in India, and so on. ....

We see the Muslim "obfuscators" are hard at work this morning as they try to distract us from the horrors of the koran with history lessons about pagans, witches, stake burnings, inquisitions, the Crusades, Constantine, etc. (Note: On Faith has a pagan (Starhawk) on its panel)

Of course none of this changes the global Islamic domination, anti-female, anti-apostate, anti-infidel passages of the worst book ever written, the koran. Said book is based on the hallucinations of one long dead Arab who supposedly got his instructions from a "pretty, wingie, some say gay, thingie named Gabriel. One can only scream out with "THE SIGNIFICANT STUPIDITY OF IT ALL!!!!

If you type Violence and Christianity or reverse the words, you will find METACAFE.

Here is an excerpt about the subject:

Early Christianity
Violent inclinations in Christianity are apparent right from the beginning. Although it is often argued that violence during Christian history is simply an aberration which results from people who twisted the original Christian message, that may not be entirely true. Violent inclinations in Christianity are apparent right from the beginning.

Modern Christianity

Although one might imagine that the violence of Christianity would be relegated to the distant past, that hasn't been the case. The course of modernity has been one strewn with blood, bones, and bodies - much of which can be attributed to Christianity.

Modern America

America in the 20th century has suffered from many violent incidents which can be traced back to Christianity. Some have been organized, others not so organized, but all the result of specifically violent or dangerous doctrines promoted in Christian churches.

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tv-violence.com

Those who claim Islam to be a violent religion should read AUSTIN CLINE's of About. com. Here is an excerpt:

Witches have long been feared and hated in Christian circles. Even today, pagans and Wiccans remain a target of Christian persecution — especially in America. It seems that they long ago took on an identity which reached far beyond their own existence and became a symbol for Christians — but a symbol of what? Maybe an examination of the events will give us some clues.

As the Inquisition proceeded merrily along through the 1400s, its focus shifted from Jews and heretics and moved towards so-called witches. Although Pope Gregory IX had authorized the killing of witches back in the 1200s, the fad just didn’t catch on for while. In 1484, Pope Innocent VIII issued a bull declaring that witches did indeed exist, and thus it became a heresy to believe otherwise. This was quite a reversal, because in 906 the Canon Episocopi, a church law, declared that belief in the existence and operation of witchcraft was heresy.

As a result of this, church authorities tortured and killed thousands of women, and not a few men, in an effort to get them to confess that they flew through the sky, had sexual relations with demons, turned into animals, and engaged in various sorts of black magic. ,,,,

Dear Mr. Patel: Do not denigrate the free speech of America – this is the value that gives you the right to protest Geer Wilders documentary film – publicly and openly – without fear of reprisal.

We are a country where Muslims such as yourself can openly proselytize and attempt to further your religious and political beliefs in any forum you choose. I ask you this, could I as a Christian do the same in a Muslim country? You know the answer is no, and you know why.

The Koran clearly says (4:101): "Non-Muslims (i.e. unbelievers) are your open enemy."

You believe that respect for fellow human beings is universal. I agree. How then do you reconcile these passages from the Koran that say non-Muslims are the "vilest of creatures" (98:6) and the "lowest of animals" (8:55).”?

You sir, may want to live in peace and harmony, but your religion demands that you do not. A tragic situation for a good man who someday may have to choose between defending your religion or defending the American core values that you avowedly hold dear.

The title is misleading. All the Congressmen already read the newspapers- all they need to know what Muslim terrorists do all over the world.

This film is made from excerpts from the daily news- and not a work of fiction. Look on internet and see how many films have been posted by Islamic terrorists with koran being read in the background. Latest example- a beheading in Somalia- posted on past Valentine's day.

I am sure Congressmen also keep track of websites detailing Muslim hatred and violence on thereligionofpeace.com, Memri.org, faithfreedom.org and europenews.dk etc.

Geert Wilders and congressmen who invited him to show his hate are white suprimacists just like the KKK. The cowards would never agree to see same film made about judiasm because it would be anti-semetic. free speech my a$$

Eboo, thanks for enlightening us all. I noticed most folks who wrote here are either ignorant or have little knowledge about Islam. Wilder is fascist and wants to create a clash of civilization.

Let him use his first ammendment right. I think someone else should walk into the hall where that movie is being screened, and use his/her first ammendment right and shout "FIRE". Let us see what happens.

The moral of the suggestion is that every right right has an associated responsibility. I hope Wilder relaizes that.

Make it a double feature with "The Sword of Constantine." It explains how Christianity, and Catholicism in particular, is the font of anti-semitism and caused the Nazi genocide of the Jews.

Eboo,

As long as Islam remains a supremacist religion - denying others equal dignity and respect - no one will respect Islam. It's that simple.

Islam is incapable of showing respect to others. This is history and fact today.

Name one Muslim who says that all religions are equal and that nonmuslims should be left alone. No insults. No threats. No mistreatment and violence. No fatwas against yoga. Yoga scares Muslims?

We can tell when someone is pretending to show respect to others or when they truly respect others.

I'm sure the guy in Buffalo who beheaded his wife had made numerous public statement about how Islam is peaceful and misunderstood. PR statements against violence is not good enough. let's see concrete action.

The viewers should decide for themselves - whether the film is anti-whatnot or what.

Adults don't need to be primed by any particular lobby's opinion either way.

I've seen snippets of it on you-tube- and decided that it was not worth my time. It's a crude, cartoonish piece of work.

Thank you for your patience.

Patel -- We have the freedom to show and view films of all types in this country.

We have armed a bunch of medieval savages in the Middle East and now see what they are capable of in the name of their 'peaceful God' -- a god who is apparently so weak that he compels his human followers to murder innocents in his name.

Wilder's film allows us to see this horror for what it is, rather than tuck it under the rug like they do in your original homeland.

I see VERY LITTLE evidence of the Imams and mosques in Europe of the USA trying to curb this radical element, making most realize that the majority of muslims support murder, torture and death of all who are not one of their 'faithful'.

The more we are exposed to the violence, immorality, and sheer insanity of religion, the better off we are -- with islam being one of the most heinous, most merciless in human history.

So if you are happy about Mr. Wilders' visit, then why the complaints.

Mr. Wilders is not commenting or even speaking in Fitna. He is only showing on film the horrendous crimes committed by Muslims all over world- blowing up civilians, beheadings, stoning death etc. and most probably even filmed by Muslims.

If violence and hatred are only bin laden's message, then how do you explain the 57 exclusive Islamic nations who insult non-Muslims every day. How do you daily incidents of Muslim terror- are all inspired by bin laden?

MMM1110 :
The Koran is fit for nothing but the trash can.

Not so. Take a koran along on your next camping trip. It makes great toilet paper.

God save us from ignorance so prevalent in Christian, Muslim and indeed all fundamentalists' religions. Fundamentalists are a plague on all the rest of us and our planet.

HSNKHWJ,

Do you blind yourself to the atrocities that Muslims commit? Do you just forget that Muslims kill people as they wage worldwide jihad? Those who condemn the violent acts are only trying to fool people that Muslims are civilized. I will never accept see them as anything but vermin, evil, destructive, killers, subhuman.

I would place a bet that you are Muslim. You are too accepting of savage ways acts committed by them.

Show me a muslim country where a non-muslim can or has been a leader, either prime minister or president. Show me a country with a muslim majority, even with 50.1% muslim population, that is not an Islamic republic. Show me a muslim country that treats its non-muslim citizens as equals. Its a two way street.

I applaud Geert Wilders. He speaks the truth. I have seen and heard endless muslims state they’re desire to take over the whole world, subjugate non-muslims to horrific acts of violence, integrate sharia Islamic law throughout the world, destroy the kuffars, and so on. The world needs to hear the truth about islam. Stop blocking free speech in order to appease oil rich Muslim countries. Have we forgotten that two divisions of the Nazi SS war machine were entirely Muslim headed by Islamic Mufti Amin al-Husseini? How about the fact that almost every single suicide bombing and terror act around the world is committed by Muslims?

Maryann261 :

How many newspapers of Muslim countries do you read?
Are you aware that THE ORGANIZATION OF ISLAMIC COUNTRIES (OIC) condemned terrorism soon after 9/11 and every time terrorism by the extremists occured.

Are you aware that CAIR has condemned violence every time it occured? Recently they condemned the killing of Asiya Hassan by her husband?

Did you know that the ISLAMIC SOCIETY OF NORTH America (ISNA) has repeatedly condemned violence or terrorism?

If you read newspapers from Islamic countries you will find numerous editorials, op ed pieces, and letters to the editor condemning terrorism or violence. You just don't read them.

After 9/11 American Muslims wrote letters to the editor condemning terrorism in both small town newspapers as well as the national dailies.

Where do you live that you never read any?

Do you even read newspapers?

Geert Wilders should be a U.S. Senator. Radical Islam needs to be defeated at all costs or it will destroy the world.

Fr. John Hemer on "Violence & the Bible"
writes:

The Old Testament.

When dealing with the problem of violence in the OT we tend to follow one of two approaches:

1) Concentrate more on the many passages where God is depicted as loving – much of Isaiah, Hosea, Micah, Deuteronomy.

2) Explain how the idea of God as a violent punishing war monger is all part of the historical and cultural conditioning of the author and that we can ignore it in good faith, especially in the light of the NT.

Neither of these approaches does justice. There are in the OT roughly three hundred passages which talk of people doing violence to each other, either a report or a threat or a command, or a lament. There are roughly a thousand passages which talk of God’s violence or wrath; either a report of his slaying someone, or his threatening people with violence or descriptions of him as a man of war. To ignore the violence in the OT is like making a study of Churchill and completely ignoring the fact that he was English. Violence is not peripheral to the Bible it is central, in many ways it is the issue, because of course it is the human problem. The central icon of our faith depicts an act of mob violence against an innocent victim. The Bible is in fact the story of the slow, painstaking and sometimes faltering escape from the idea of a God who is violent to a God who is love and has absolutely nothing to do with violence.
FIND THIS ON THE INTERNET.

Muslims who are considered "moderate" never denounce any violent acts that have been committed by the extremists. "Moderate" Muslims, by their silence, are demonstrating their approval, and so "moderate" Muslims are just as extreme as those who carry out the violence. The tragedy of September 11, 2001 is all the proof I need that Muslims are unfit to live in the United States of America. Tolerating what Muslims do means tolerating the intolerable.

Ebco Patel asks "Should we engage one-fifth of the world's population by punching them in the mouth or by reaching our hand out in friendship?" I do not recommend punching them in the mouth. Neither does Geert Wilders. What he recommends is that we should listen and heed what the radical Islamists are saying -- that their motivation is to dominate the world and establish Islam as the only religion and that we should either be willing to accept Shar'ia law or be prepared to do what is necessary to avoid it. Nor do I recommend reaching out our hand in friendship to the 1/5th of the worlds populatiion that has been almost entirely silent to and most, even approving of the many atrocities of the jihadists in this fulminant recrudescence of a millenium of Islamic Imperialism.

Mr. Patel predicts the following:
“My guess is that all of us will say the first step to improving America's image and foreign relations is simply showing respect towards our fellow human beings,”

How are Muslims living amongst us are showing respect for us, for our religions and our culture? By calling us infidels to our faces and openly conspiring to change our constitution and way of life to make it mirror their failed culture and societies?

Below is part of the Muslim Brotherhood Organizations plan with which they wish to “serve” the American society.
“The process of settlement [of Islam in the United States] is a "Civilization-Jihadist" process with all the word means. The Ikhwan ( Muslim Brotherhood Organizations) must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" their miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim's destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is no escape from that destiny except for those who choose to slack.”
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/columnists/rdreher/stories/DN-dreher_09edi.ART.State.Edition1.4235f88.html

Ebco Patel asks "Should we engage one-fifth of the world's population by punching them in the mouth or by reaching our hand out in friendship?" I do not recommend punching them in the mouth. Neither does Geert Wilders. What he recommends is that we should listen and heed what the radical Islamists are saying -- that their motivation is to dominate the world and establish Islam as the only religion and that we should either be willing to accept Shar'ia law or be prepared to do what is necessary to avoid it. Nor do I recommend reaching out our hand in friendship to the 1/5th of the worlds populatiion that has been almost entirely silent to and most, even approving of the many atrocities of the jihadists in this fulminant recrudescence of a millenium of Islamic Imperialism.

Ebco Patel asks "Should we engage one-fifth of the world's population by punching them in the mouth or by reaching our hand out in friendship?" I do not recommend punching them in the mouth. Neither does Geert Wilders. What he recommends is that we should listen and heed what the radical Islamists are saying -- that their motivation is to dominate the world and establish Islam as the only religion and that we should either be willing to accept Shar'ia law or be prepared to do what is necessary to avoid it. Nor do I recommend reaching out our hand in friendship to the 1/5th of the worlds populatiion that has been almost entirely silent to and most, even approving of the many atrocities of the jihadists in this fulminant recrudescence of a millenium of Islamic Imperialism.

Who are we? We, the majority, sideline Muslims, show no reaction against Al Qaeda and its brand of extremism which is Wahhabiism, but Muslims get a jolt when someone, somehow, portrays Muslims differently than we like. Neither Al Qaeda is right nor the reaction against Al Qaeda by branding all Muslims as one, extremists. But we Muslims are not showing any effort or courage to shut-out Al Qaeda proclaiming to be for the Muslims, by the Muslims. We Must tell Al Qaeda that they are not Muslims nor for the Muslims. Clearly, Muslims feel humiliated and the west is showing signs of fatigue for how long and how much they can deal with Islamic extremism. The biggest problem is that Muslim nations have no credible government and Al Qaeda is one symptom of such void. Instead of being a force for democracy, Al Qaeda extremism further complicates the situation. The best solution for the world is that US completely disengages with the Muslims world or completely and comprehensively engages it. And it is costly either way, but that is what it is.

I've seen the film. It juxtaposes footage of violence and calls to violence, with Koranic verses exhorting the reader to violence. The footage does not look fabricated. The film is meant to raise questions about claims that the Koran is a book of peace. Certainly not all Muslims make a practice of committing violence like that depicted. I read Old Testament books that say pretty much the same kinds of things. Our Dutch visitor may be a rabble-rouser and a racist, but what the film depicts is real, and the film-makers attitudes don't change the depictions one bit.

Doesn't seem as if Patel knows much: not of anything.

re: "Why he's so interested in amplifying Osama bin Laden's message that Islam promotes violence and division I don't know."...

Hmmnn. Perhaps -- because -- might it be, that Islamic elements, and, instruments of power, all over the world, "amplify", glorify, exhort, decree, violence & mayhem vs. the infidel?

Is it possible that Patel is one of them? Is Geert Wilders not opening a window on REALITY?

Patel, guess what. Some of us know what "is" is.

Geert Wilders for President of the USA.

Or at least Director of Homeland Security.

Get the muzlums out of the United States.

And by the way many Jews found Mel Gibson's movie about the crucifixion of Christ quite anti Semitic.

It was in movie theaters internationally.

There were numerous protests and discussions.

Very healthy.

The sky did not fall, and Judaism wasn't destroyed, but perhaps once again defamed.

Life goes on as does freedom of speech.

I wouldn't worry about it Mr. Patel.

Islam will withstand a showing of this movie.

What Islam must worry about is reforming itself from within.

Mr Patel, please review your quran, it is filled with everything you seem to be denying. Mr Wilders may be extreme, but in his defense, your defense of the quran is more inappropriate then Mr Wilders message.Most of his message is taken directly from the quran(except the music). In order to bring about good relations one cannot distort the truth. I am going to assume you think most people reading your posts are softminded and can be mislead. Shame shame.

Mr. Patel, I admire your commitment to better relations between the West and the Muslim world, unfortunately you seem to be going at this the wrong way, you should be touring Islamic countries promoting the freedoms you enjoy. They are the ones who have to reach for the hand that the west has had extended for such a long time that it is in danger of getting crampt.

" ThomasBaum:

I have mentioned numerous times that I have met God and that God is a Trinity and that God is a BEING OF PURE LOVE and that Jesus is God-Incarnate not a mere prophet."

SWEET!!! Another total lunatic!!! This is what makes the WaPo comments section more worthwhile than the actual newspaper. You and Spidermean should get together.
P.S.
I've met God as well. His name was Jim Jones. He's dead now.

"If those on the left think that Islam is so great, go move to Saudi Arabia and see how you like it."

Good point. I agree completely. We have our own (more moderate) version of that here though. Mike Huckabee, Sam Brownback, etc. would love to turn this country into the Christian Saudi Arabia. But, yeah, I agree that theocracy in general is an incredibly bad form of gov't. Really, any gov't not chosen by the governed is a bad form of gov't. If the governed choose a theocracy (Utah), then they're probably just dumb.

ravitchn Author Profile Page:

Europe has been overrun with Muslim immigrants; they are a great threat to civilization as we know it. America hasdbetter beware or Muslims here will also threaten out way of life.

At one time Islam was no more dangerous than any religious culture, like rabid Christianity. But Christianity and Judaism have shown themselves able to become more moderate, not moderate enough but more moderate. There is no evidence that Muslims have ever left the mindset of the middle ages.

I think it's a case of circumstances. "Moderate" Christians and Jews have money, more often than not. They have distractions. "Crazy" Christians and Jews (people who shoot abortion doctors, Israeli settlers...) probably don't have a nice, comfortable Western lifestyle. I'm pretty sure thats the difference. If you still live, literally, in the middle ages, then of course you're going to act like it.

"palleman:

Most people, religious or not, do not condones senseless killing. Except Islam.. If they can not find an infidel, they kill among themselves. "men woman and children." it matters not."

Apparently grammar matters not.
I couldn't care less if someone makes a movie about how crazy Muslims are. He's probably right, at least in a sense. I've seen the video of the women in Afghanistan who had acid thrown in their faces. They were motivated by their religion, so if you are trying to make that point... more power to you. But if someone wants to make and show a movie about how people who think that "the constitution should be amended to conform god's law" are also insane and dangerous, that movie should be equally well received.

Tryth always triumphs , Eboo. Let Geert Wilders show his file to whomever he wants. And if he shows up for Senator Kerry's meeting and yours to design a roadmap for engaging the Muslim world fruitfully, welcome him as if he has always been a man of good faith, extend to him legendary Muslim hospitality, and wish him well as he continues on his warped way to seeking the truth. Maybe he IS seeking the truth; and maybe he WILL become a Muslim, the way the Mongols did after they had razed Baghdad in the 13th century, and then went on to spread the Islamic faith to China!

When Fibonacci (Leonardo of Piza) had, in the early 13th Century, returned to Florence from Algeria where he had been introduced to Al Khwarizmi's 'Arabic numerals' based on the decimal place system as well as to his Algebra and his algorithm (now the basis of computer science -- at that time the Florentine mercahnts were still using the cumbersome Roman numerals), and sought to convince the Florentines to adopt the superior 'Arabic numerals', they wanted to immolate him for ensanring the Florentines into a trap where they could lose out to their rival Arab merchants. Fortunately for them, the less-Islamophobic among them prevailed, and the 'Arabic numeral' system was adopted, and Western Mathematics and Science flourished alongside Muslim science and technology -- until the fall of the Ottoman Empire, but now Islamic Science is fast recouping the ground it had lost.

Most people, religious or not, do not condones senseless killing. Except Islam.. If they can not find an infidel, they kill among themselves. "men woman and children." it matters not.

Most people, religious or not, do not condones senseless killing. Except Islam.. If they can not find an infidel, they kill among themselves. "men woman and children." it matters not.

There is no getting around the fact that Muslims are determined to destroy the West. The West must destroy Islam. The West is in a true struggle for its survival. We are being overrun by Muslims who hate the West. They plan on destroying the West from within. They do not care if it takes decades or much longer. Muslims practice Islam with the mindset of those living in the Middle Ages. I will not fall for any propaganda that Islam can be practiced in the West in a peaceful manner. I do support the end of all Muslim immigrants to the U.S. It is in our national security interests not to allow those to enter the country who are determined to destroy it. I never supported the idea of allowing Muslims from the Middle East to enter the U.S. at all. They are the enemy, and the enemy must be rooted out of this society.

Ibn Rushd, in his Muqaddimaat, divides Jihad into four kinds: "Jihad by the heart; Jihad by the tongue; Jihad by the hand and Jihad by the sword." He defines "Jihad by the tongue" as "to commend good conduct and forbid the wrong, like the type of Jihad Allah (swt) ordered us to fulfill against the hypocrites in His Words, “O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites” [9:73]. So the Prophet (s) strove against the unbelievers by sword and against the hypocrites by tongue." Said Ramadan Buti, a contemporary Orthodox scholar from Syria states, in his seminal work on the subject Jihad in Islam "… even before he conducted Jihad by sword against the unbelievers, there is no doubt the Prophet (s) invited these unbelievers peacefully, lodged protests against their beliefs and strove to remove their misgivings about Islam. When they refused any other solution, but rather declared a war against him and his message and initiated the fight, there was no alternative except to fight back."

One form of Jihad, usually overlooked in today's pursuit of newsworthy headlines, is the Jihad of presenting the message of Islam-da`wah. Thirteen years of the Prophet's (s) 23-year mission consisted purely of this type of Jihad. Contrary to popular belief, the word Jihad and related forms of its root word are mentioned in many Makkan verses in a non-combative context.

Combative Jihad in the technical usage of Islamic law means "the declaration of war against belligerent and aggressive non-Muslim powers or against fellow Muslim transgressors". It is not a haphazard decision taken by anybody. The principles of Islamic jurisprudence state that the actions of the leader must be guided by the interests of the people and that the interests of the collectivity has, in some cases, precedence over the interests of the individual.

FROM THE INTERNET.

Whatever11
Are you kidding me? Them saying the condemn terror means nothing. Let me know when they actually start protesting in front of Mosques that are preaching hatred. There are plenty here in the USA and guess what, they are packed with American Muslims.

Hey Dishar,
Is that a threat? We have every right to speak out against Islam and our numbers are growing by the day. Most converts leave within the first 5 years once they learn the ugly truth about Islam.

So save the veiled threats, we WILL NOT BE BULLIED.

Being against the bigotry of Islam does not make one a bigot. It is just a matter of time before the West cracks down on Islam.

Hey whatever,
Khomeini accordingly delivered notorious rebuke to the Islam-is-a-religion-of-peace crowd: “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter [their armies].... Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword! People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur’anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.”

Look at all the useless comments about Christianity of the PAST. Here is a clue, people are concerned with TODAY. Islam is the greatest threat to the freedoms of the West. Anyone who thinks that Wilders is doing this for attention obviously does not have the guts to face the issue. There is nothing about Islam advancing in the West for a non-Mulim to like.
If those on the left think that Islam is so great, go move to Saudi Arabia and see how you like it.

I believe Geert Wilder's and his likes have not heared the very loud message for years from the silent majority of millions of Muslims ... just ignore the critics of Islam and Muslims ! Muslim haters have not yet realized that their books , movies and programs of hate , have been able achieve or contribute only more divisiveness and polarization in communities and socities, that had not seen the likes of this before . If every one concentrates to do three things : a) listen and folllow to his own self within himself will find his/ her peace ; b) control his/ her ego will be happy and c ) help others as much as possible will earn blessings . Let us resolve to spread better understanding of each others point of view and problems to create a better World for all of us every where.

It is useful for the West to learn as much as it can about Islam.

It is perhaps just as useful to suggest that Islam should be open to learning as much as it can about real Western values.

Is Islam open to such Western understanding?

Shouldn't this be mentioned along with mentioning that the West needs to learn about Islam?

Whatever 11, we need to pay close attention to what Muslims are saying. Deshar for instance wrote below: "For all the Islam haters here, there was Islam before the US and there will be Islam after the US. Our numbers are growing in this country by leaps and bounds, not by immigration but by conversion or better still reversion. One quarter of the estimated 7 million Muslims in the US are converts. Probably the fastest growing religion in the US. Muslims have rights and obligations...., etc. Salaam."

Notice he says, Muslims have obligations. One of the fundamental obligations of a devout Muslim is to wage jihad (holy war). It can be argued, both Judaism and Christianity have engaged in "holy wars" or wars of conquest. In Israel's case it was limited to Canaan. Unlike Judaism and Christianity, Islam's jihad or holy war is "unlimited." Islam's jihad will continue until Islam's reign is supreme throughout the earth; until all the peoples either willingly convert to Islam or submit to Islamic supremacy. This is a fact any scholar on Islam (worth his or her salt) understands.

Why Geert Wilders is the way he is:

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops, 3,402 combat and 822 non-combat) and 90,253 – 98,521I raqi civilians killed, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8) UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

And all done via the guidance of the "worst book ever written" aka the koran. Said book was generated by the hallucinations of one long dead Arab who supposedly got his instructions from a "pretty, wingie, talking, flying, fictional thingie" named Gabriel. It all makes one scream out "THE SIGNIFICANT STUPIDITY OF IT ALL!!!!

Averroes (1126-1198), the Islamic philosopher and sciebntist wrote:

Existence and Attributes of God

Ibn Rushd, shortly after writing his Decisive Treatise, wrote a treatise on the doctrine of God known as Al-Kashf 'an Manahij al-Adilla fi ‘Aqaid al-Milla (the Exposition of the Methods of Proof Concerning the Beliefs of the Community). His goal was to examine the religious doctrines that are held by the public and determine if any of the many doctrines expounded by the different sects were the intention of the "lawgiver." In particular he identifies four key sects as the targets of his polemic, the Asharites, Mutazilites, the Sufis and the “literalists,” claiming that they all have distorted the scriptures and developed innovative doctrines not compatible with Islam. Ibn Rushd's polemic, then, becomes a clear expression of his doctrine on God. He begins with examining the arguments for the existence of God given by the different sects, dismissing each one as erroneous and harmful to the public. Ibn Rushd contends that there are only two arguments worthy of adherence, both of which are found in the "Precious Book;" for example, surahs 25:61, 78:6-16 and 80:24-33. The first is the argument of “providence,” in which one can observe that everything in the universe serves the purpose of humanity. Ibn Rushd speaks of the sun, the moon, the earth and the weather as examples of how the universe is conditioned for humans. If the universe is, then, so finely-tuned, then it bespeaks of a fine tuner - God. The second is the argument of “invention,” stemming from the observation that everything in the world appears to have been invented. Plants and animals have a construction that appears to have been designed; as such a designer must have been involved, and that is God.

Ibn Rushd maintains, as did most of his theologian contemporaries that there are seven divine attributes, analogous to the human attributes. These attributes are: knowledge, life, power, will, hearing, vision and speech. For the philosopher, the attribute of knowledge occupied much space in his writing on the attributes of God. He contends, especially in his Epistle Dedicatory and his Decisive Treatise that divine knowledge is analogous to human knowledge only in name, human knowledge is the product of effect and divine knowledge is a product of cause. God, being the cause of the universe, has knowledge based on being its cause; while humans have knowledge based on the effects of such causes...."

When using verses out of any religious text or literature, please make sure to analyze the quote by the context in which it appears. Most of the verses in the Qu'ran that have to do with fighting and battling were revealed during times of battle. They usually just apply to that specific time and to the specific people involved.

And please, do some research on fatwas and statements made from Muslim leaders. They do condemn terrorist attacks. We just never hear about it. We only get bad news.

I think Mr. Patel made some good points.

The medieval Islamic philosopher, poet, and Sufi Rumi (1207--1273) wrote:

"Rumi's universality

It is often said that the teachings of Rumi are universal in nature.[30] For Rumi, religion was mostly a personal experience and not limited to logical arguments or perceptions of the senses.[31] Creative love, or the urge to rejoin the spirit to divinity, was the goal towards which every thing moves.[31] The dignity of life, in particular human life (which is conscious of its divine origin and goal), was important.[31]

I searched for God among the Christians and on the Cross and therein I found Him not.
I went into the ancient temples of idolatry; no trace of Him was there.
I entered the mountain cave of Hira and then went as far as Qandhar but God I found not.
With set purpose I fared to the summit of Mount Caucasus and found there only 'anqa's habitation.
Then I directed my search to the Kaaba, the resort of old and young; God was not there even.
Turning to philosophy I inquired about him from ibn Sina but found Him not within his range.
I fared then to the scene of the Prophet's experience of a great divine manifestation only a "two bow-lengths' distance from him" but God was not there even in that exalted court.
Finally, I looked into my own heart and there I saw Him; He was nowhere else."

I have mentioned numerous times that I have met God and that God is a Trinity and that God is a BEING OF PURE LOVE and that Jesus is God-Incarnate not a mere prophet.

One of the simple reasons that I have said that the god of islam is satan, is because the god of islam gets very upset, so to speak, when one says God is a Trinity and the Trinity I am referring to is called the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, not Jesus, Mary and Joseph as I think the koran refers to.

Another is the god of islam gets upset when one speaks of Jesus as God-Incarnate, which Jesus Is.

God does not look at the label someone attaches to themself, some of which are: Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, Buddist, Agnotic, Atheist...to name a few but God looks at the person.

It stands to reason that satan would speak highly of Jesus and try to claim Jesus as his prophet when in fact it is a lie.

The koran is not a continuation of the Old and New Testament but is a total twistation of both.

With that said, I repeat: God is a searcher of hearts and minds not of religious affiliations or lack thereof. The meaning of this statement should be plain as day even if some do not believe it to be true.

It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.

While it is true that no one can earn heaven, buy their way into heaven, bribe their way into heaven since it is a free gift, one can build their own hell.

Since God knew that not all would "repent", God came up with a Plan which He has had since before creation and His Plan will come to Fruition.

God's Plan is for ALL to eventually be with Him in His Kingdom.

Divine Justice and Divine Mercy not only go hand in hand but are two sides of the same coin, so to speak.

God is not the egomaniac that, sad to say, some seem to think and, even sadder to say, some seem to want God to be.

God did not ask us to be more merciful and more forgiving than He Is.

Something to think about.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

From Wikpedia:

Islam was not, however, a simple re-transmitter of knowledge from antiquity. It also developed its own sciences, such as algebra, chemistry, geology, spherical trigonometry, etc. which were later also transmitted to the West.[7][8] Stefan of Pise translated into Latin around 1127 an Arab manual of medical theory. The method of algorism for performing arithmetic with Indian-Arabic numerals was developed by al-Khwarizmi (hence the word “Algorithm”) in the 9th century, and introduced in Europe by Leonardo Fibonacci (1170-1250).[9] A translation of the Algebra by al-Kharizmi is known as early as 1145, by a certain Robert of Chester. Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen, 980-1037) compiled treaties on optical sciences, which were used as references by Newton and Descartes. Medical sciences were also highly developed in Islam as testified by the Crusaders, who relied on Arab doctors on numerous occasions. Joinville reports he was saved in 1250 by a “Saracen” doctor.[10]

Contributing to the growth of European science was the major search by European scholars for new learning which they could only find among Muslims, especially in Islamic Spain and Sicily. These scholars translated new scientific and philosophical texts from Arabic into Latin.

One of the most productive translators in Spain was Gerard of Cremona, who translated 87 books from Arabic to Latin,[11] including Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī's On Algebra and Almucabala, Jabir ibn Aflah's Elementa astronomica,[12] al-Kindi's On Optics, Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Kathīr al-Farghānī's On Elements of Astronomy on the Celestial Motions, al-Farabi's On the Classification of the Sciences,[13] the chemical and medical works of Rhazes,[14] the works of Thabit ibn Qurra and Hunayn ibn Ishaq,[15] and the works of Arzachel, Jabir ibn Aflah, the Banū Mūsā, Abū Kāmil Shujā ibn Aslam, Abu al-Qasim, and Ibn al-Haytham (including the Book of Optics).[11]

Deshar, you wrote: "....there was Islam before the US and there will be Islam after the US. Our numbers are growing in this country by leaps and bounds...."

I believe you are quite right. I've got a small book entitled: "Islam Will Conquer All Other Religions and American Power Will Diminish," by Mohammad Azad and Bibi Amina. American power is diminishing as we speak. As a thirty something year registered Republican, I realized the battle was over when President Bush said the following in part, days after 9/11:

"The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics (this is a bald-face lie) -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam.....The terrorists are traitors to their own faith, trying in effect, to hijack Islam itself.... (another lie) It's teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah." (Osama bin Laden is a devout and faithful Muslim in good standing. In no way did he blaspheme the name of Allah)

Bush lied. The rest is history.

Mea Culpa. Before learning more about this interesting man, my thoughts: "what a great thing he is doing." When you look closely at matters, you change your mind rather rapidly. For Mr. Wilders does not stick to a criticism of Islamism, which many, if not most, Muslims also find abhorent; instead he argues that the violence of Islamists inheres in the Muslim Holy Books. All texts written more than 500 years ago emerge from a society that differs radically from our own. None of us would want to live in those societies, if only because the sewage control was terrible. The wise, when reading any ancient text, take into account the time and the society in which it was written. Doing that makes reveals the books to be fountains of wisdom and objects of great beauty. Failing to do that makes the texts dead letters of a dead culture. This man should be given no more or less attention than one gives those who argue the Catholic Church is innately evil.

A word of advice for Muslims. The best thing to do with such persons is to ignore them if possible. David Irving was allowed complete freedom to propagate Holocaust Denial. Gradually, he discovered the audience for his message was diminishing, to the point where he could not pay the bills. A great discovery came to his mind: "let me go break the law in Austria to become a free speech victim." Sure enough, this Englishman went to Austria, broke its law, and became a hero. Don't give to Wilders the martyrdom he so envies in the suicide bomber.

If you liked the Old Testament, you'll love the Koran. They are like funhouse mirror images of each other. Come to think of it, the Torah and Haftarah are too.

Most of the Koran, the Bible's Old Testament, the Torah and Haftarah are absolutely useless trash. I've seen inner city 3rd graders write better stories. Come to think of it, the Book of Mormon and various Hindu writings can be lumped in the mostly useless category.

I think the reason that Wilders has the attraction that he does is that the Islamic world seems so hostile to diversity and free speech. I keep looking for Islamic leaders anywhere to speak out against supression of women, gays, Jews and infidels.

Deshar,
Hope to meet you on the streets of my city when you try to follow through on your adherance to the example of mohammed for me and my Christian and Jewish patriot friends. islam is not compatible with this country or the rights and freedoms it was created to preserve, Sorry, just the truth, the sooner you face it and leave, the less of you we will have to deal with. Which make no mistake if you continue to press for sharia and islamic state, WE WILL!
Quotes from the Koran:
--The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4:101)
-- Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve. (8.55)
-- Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. (48:29).
-- It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer, accidents excepted. (4:92)
-- Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (5:51)
-- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
-- Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
-- The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. (4:76)
-- We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:151)
-- I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8:12)
Quotes from the sayings of mohammed:
Muhammad said to the Jews: "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. “
Sahih Bukhari [4:52:176] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Geert Wilders is the 'Braveheart' of my generation. The battle between Judeo Christian values and that of Islam is, once again, being waged; a war that began 600 years after the birth of Christ by an illiterate nomad named Mohammed. The religion of Mohammed is one of 'YOU CONVERT OR DIE OR BECOME A SLAVE OF MUSLIMS!' It is a very simple religion really. There are not many options. So, Eboo, spare us your drivel about the wonders of Islam. If it is soooo good in Muslim countries, why are you living here? You come here and 'spit' on our Judeo Christian foundations. Recently the son of one of the leading Hamas founders became a Christian. He now lives in the United States. He says, Islam is a sickness. I agree.

This islamic oppologist is clear and flat out lying to you. Mr, Wilder showed the exact acts of islamic jihadists and then showed only the sections of the koran that these same jihadists used to promote the battle these barbaric acts of murder and maiming were supposed to support! The truth is something islam cannot afford to have in the light of day, Wilders puts that truth out there and they hate him for it.
Quotes from the Koran:
--The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4:101)
-- Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve. (8.55)
-- Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. (48:29).
-- It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer, accidents excepted. (4:92)
-- Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (5:51)
-- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
-- Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
-- The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. (4:76)
-- We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:151)
-- I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8:12)
Quotes from the sayings of mohammed:
Muhammad said to the Jews: "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. “
Sahih Bukhari [4:52:176] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

For all the Islam haters here, there was Islam before the US and there will be Islam after the US. Our numbers are growing in this country by leaps and bounds, not by immigration but by conversion or better still revertion. One quarter of the estimated 7 million Muslims in the US are converts. Probably the fastest growing religion in the US.

Muslims have rights and obligations like all other US citizens and we are here to stay. You better live by these facts. The vile and bigotry being spewed out here wouldn't change any thing.

Salaam.

islam definately promotes violence on any and all unbelievers and this islamic oppologist can't hide that fact.
Quotes from the Koran:
--The unbelievers are your inveterate enemy. (4:101)
-- Surely the vilest of animals in Allah’s sight are those who disbelieve. (8.55)
-- Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. (48:29).
-- It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer, accidents excepted. (4:92)
-- Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. (5:51)
-- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
-- Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
-- The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. (4:76)
-- We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:151)
-- I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8:12)
Quotes from the sayings of mohammed:
Muhammad said to the Jews: "If you embrace Islam, you will be safe. You should know that the earth belongs to Allah and His Apostle, and I want to expel you from this land. “
Sahih Bukhari [4:52:176] Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

Oh yea Patel, you constantly show what a liar you are. American values are NOT barbaric Islamic ones. You are a joke if you think that anyone is going to buy your con.

Patel the best thing for the USA would be to end all Muslim immigration. Your people cause the same problems across the world. Let them stay in Islamic countries.

Haven't seen the film and haven't read the Koran (or Qu'ran, if you like), so I'll refrain from judgment on these topics.

I will say, though, that we have a marketplace of ideas and, like a true marketplace, inferior ideas will eventually be seen as such.

Nothing sanitizes like the harsh light of day.

Another smokescreen by Patel. Islam does promote violence.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/02/christian-action-network35-islamic.html

Wilders has every right to show that film, but Islamist do not like that freedom. Personally I do not care what your friend Ellison thinks. He gives speeches for hateful Islamic groups and sharia colleges. The sooner he is out of office the better.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/02/muslim-congressman-gives-speech-at.html

Also your interfaith talks are meaningless, the change has to come from within the Islamic community.

Patel we all see the clash of the civilizations, caused by Muslims.
You are a fraud!!

The clash.

http://islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2009/02/uks-islamic-warning-to-world.html

Mr. Patel asks: "Should we engage one-fifth of the world's population by punching them in the mouth or by reaching our hand out in friendship?"

Did nearly one-fifth of the world's population -- who were delighted with 9/11 Muslim-terror atrocities in New York and Washington -- engage America by punching us in the mouth or by reaching out the their hand in friendship?

Patel is a liar.
Wilders is not committed to a clash of civilizations. Islam is! The entire Koran and the sayings of Muhammad are directed toward punishing and making war on non-Muslems. The entire Muslim world has rejected the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which defines the values of our civilization: freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, gender equality, etc. ALL 57 Muslim countries (ncluding the non-existent Palestine) have subscribed to the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam which defines the values of Islamic civilization: the supremacy of Islam over all other religions, and the Sharia as THE ONLY SOURCE of human rights. Anyone can verify this by searching it on Google.
And Wilders does not link the Koran with violence: he merely documents how Muslim religious authorities make that link!
Patel is nothing more than a propagandist for Islam. He can no more be trusted to tell us the truth about Islam than an employee of Phillip Morris can be trusted to tell us the truth about tobacco smoking.

illustr8r

"Why haven't muslim leaders issued fatwas against Osama Bin Laden and his followers instead of doing so against Salmon Rushdie, Theo Van Gogh, Ayan Hirsi Ali, and Wilders?"
---------------------------------------------------

Please take a little trouble to research on such issues before you throw about such unfounded accusations.

No FATWAS have been OR were issued against Theo Van Gogh or Ayan Hirsi Ali or Geert Wilders. If there have been any, please give references.

And for Fatwas against Osama bin Laden see:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article424455.ece

NieeMA,

You shouldn't take personally the views expressed by Wilders if you are not the target. Whether you are are not is up to you. I am not against all muslim people. I'm against the particular movement represented in the movie Fitna. It is a distinctly Islamic movement and it is justified by passages in the Quran.

I will ask you the question I asked earlier. Why haven't muslim leaders issued fatwas against Osama Bin Laden and his followers instead of doing so against Salmon Rushdie, Theo Van Gogh, Ayan Hirsi Ali, and Wilders? They give lip service to the west and say that the terrorists don't represent true Islam. But they don't name names or issue fatwas. Tell me truly, you know that if they were serious about condemning Islamic terrorism they would do that.

Eric

Interesting how free speech is tolerated by the author but by the same token he chastises Mr. Wilders for criticising Islam without having a beard or even praying five times a day! A fine example of religious hypocrasy!
A salut to Mr. Wilders for showing facts and speaking out about a religion that treats women like slaves and controls people by enforcing ancient superstition with cruel violence.
Bravo to the White House for confronting the reality that faces us in the 21st century!!

Salaam

I agree with the game plan. I too am glad Geert Wilders is on Capitol Hill at this very time.

I know why a lot of people are mad about this man coming here.

I was in the Nederlands when he and hirsi ali were seated. I was asked lots of questions, being an American, when Theo Van Gogh's Submission was released and he was later murdered. People all over the world were asking if my husband and I were ok hearing all the news that was going on there. Feeling the hate that was coming from the two of them in the Nederlands.

Many things have happened since these horrible times and some have given wilder a broad yet not surprisingly limited following. ali's book helps the thought of how bad Muslims are along very well.

People that have a tendency to hate, look for it in all things that present, in their eyes, as being hateful.

Fitna, is just another attempt to get people stirred up about what Islam might be.

But, I can give all a happy picture that will help you to feel that things are going to be ok.

As you must know by now, I am a Muslim. Well, not only am I am Muslim since 1998, I married a Dutch man.
We are living in a small town of about 700 people. Elkton South Dakota has made me its ward one council person for three years now. They, the towns folk, have no problem with a fully covered Muslim woman representing the town at county meetings, chamber meetings and state wide events. I am the only Muslim woman/man to hold an office in the state of South Dakota's history.

So, if wilder wants to try to move people into believing that Muslims are not to be respected and elected, he has another thought coming.

I think I should invite him for coffee or tea here in our small part of the world...I am sure he would have an interesting time meeting some of his fellow countryman that are living and loving South Dakota. We have a lot of dairy farmers in Brookings county.

Well, I guess all I can do is pray for him as much as possible along with the others I pray for.

Blessings

NieeMA

I agree with you, colinnicholas, that the evidence for gods and religion is not there. But the purpose of religion is precisely to enable the believer to AVOID the evidence. (All caps means emphasizing, not shouting.) Or rather, the purpose of religion is to enable the believer to AVOID THE NECESSITY FOR HAVING EVIDENCE. If I say "Eating frozen yogurt makes me invisible", it is fair to ask for evidence of this claim. But stick the "r"-word in front of that statement, call it a religious doctrine, and it suddenly becomes impolite to ask for anything as plebeian and pedestrian as evidence. The fact that the purpose of religion enables one to avoid evidentiary questions is a sure sign that even religious believers themselves know they are on thin ice with their beliefs. Otherwise, they would not be afraid of, would even welcome, issues concerning evidence. Jim

Perhaps the greatest danger mankind faces now and in the future is religion. It is simply spooky irrational thinking - and each day we force-feed it to our children. It's the kind of thinking that can make otherwise sane people fly planes into buildings and do other crazy things.
Wilders is not racist. He is against a religion - not a race.
The damage religion causes should be looked at. The silly ideas of the supernatural that we just accept as real - should be critically examined.

It would seem that there "probably" are no gods. Nobody has ever seen one, so it's fair to be skeptical of their existence. And if in fact they do not exist - then religion is really ridiculous.
Let Mr Wilder do his thing. Let's listen to what he has to say.
It's 2009 folks, not 1009.

Every educated person (Muslim or non-Muslim) must read Ghazali and Averroes (Ibn Rushd). These scholars gave us the enlightened version of Islam. Their contributions to physics, medicine, psychology, philosophy and the scientific method are not only admired by the West but the Europeans are carrying out that tradition even today. Muslims lost it centuries ago.

Print the names Ghazali or Averroes in your search engine and go to Wikpedia.

Also Rumi will enlighten you.

People need to watch the movie "Fitna". Why would you want to extend a hand of friendship to this movement. Why, in the name of political correctness, are you saying this isn't a threat when it so clearly is. If the muslim world is against the views depicted in the film then why haven't they taken a stronger stand. Why haven't fatwas been issued to Osama Bin Laden and his followers. Instead they do it for Salman Rushdie, Theo Van Gogh, Ayan Hirsi Ali, as well as Geert Wilders. Why do you condemn Wilders for speaking out about this? I don't understand it.

I think you're all mistaken- the point is that Wilder's purpose in showing the film to Congress is in perpetuating his own brand of xenophobia, not to inform people. This film has NO social value. You cannot collect a bunch of stock images, compile them together, and claim that they support a central thesis about a religion that is followed by 1/5th of humanity and that is 1400 years old. The fact is that people's behavior can be so far from the tenets of their religious dogma that you can't equate one with the other. Political strife is the cause of conflict.

Deshar says: "If thats your logic then I guess Ahmadinejad, Richard Williamson and their likes would be guest stars to the Capitol Hill."

Yes. Exactly. The First Amendment means that anyone is allowed to say anything, provided only that they do not violate the "clear and present danger" criterion (e.g., divulging military secrets, yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater, etc.). As a matter of fact, Ahmadinejad was allowed to speak at Columbia Univ. BTW, Deshar, who died and made you God and gave you the authority to decide who gets to speak and who does not? Jim

Deshar says: "If thats your logic then I guess Ahmadinejad, Richard Williamson and their likes would be guest stars to the Capitol Hill."

Yes. Exactly. In fact, you may recall that Ahmadinejad was allowed to speak at ... I think it was ... Columbia. BTW, who died and made you God and gave you the authority to decide who is free to speak and who is not, Deshar? As long as the "clear and present danger" line is not crossed, anyone should be free to say anything. If you disagree, your argument is with the First Amendment, in particular, the Abridgement Clause, not with me. Jim

Mr. Eboo Patel's distress is noted and I certainly regret that the event upsets you.

I have watched Fitna. I have failed to note any error in the movie. Perhaps before deploring it, you might enlighten us about the errors.

Along with that, a bit of illumination might strengthen your position that it is hurtful. Specifically, if Islam is really not as violent as Wilders seems to suggest, what is Islam doing to limit the damage some who claim to be adherents are causing?

My own view, at present, is that I cannot understand how an all powerful god might choose to use the scum of the earth to do murder in order to accomplish his will. If there is an element of truth or divine inspiration in Islam, this evident contradiction is a vast impediment.

All Wilders is doing is showing actual videos of actual Muslims at actual protests. If Muslims don't like what they are seeing, then they should act better at protests. Wilders shouldn't be punished just because some Muslim girl shouted "Death to Jews" at a protest - she is the one at fault.

Based on the protests I've seen, I don't think Wilders is portraying an image that is too distorted.

Good Morning,

Freedom in the Republic-United States of America
forbids the philosophy of Radical Islam.Everything
that they believe in is adverse to Freedom that we
so celebrate in America.It is important that we
take them serious.Wherever they spread they try to
take over and change society rather then blend in.
Multiculturalism means the end of true freedom,as
radical Islam hates with passion our way of life.
Yes there are Peace Loving Muslims,and they have
freedom to practice their philosophy in America.
My question to them??Why don't you condemn
radical Islam????? I believe that you are very
much terrified of them.If you are not in support
of them....they will cut off your head.
In my opinion Geert Wilders is a very brave man.
We are best to take his message very seriously.
It is true that radical Islam will do its best to
dispose of him,like they did to Mr.Van Gogh.
In ending,take a look at the many countries of
the world that are ruled by Islamic Philosophy.
Investigate what form of Freedom they practice,
you will be surprised.....we must educate ourselves about this "Wolf on Sheep's Clothing".

I thought the Patel's were Hindus or Sikhs !!

The one thing that puzzles me is the absence of complaint - coming from Western Muslims - about the treatment of minority groups and those wishing to leave Islam in the Muslim world.

:.

For example in Iran - they just voted to put to death any one leaving Islam and converting to Christianity - 166-7.

Or in the Maldives - no Maldives citizen is allowed to be a non-Muslim and more they must be a Sunni Muslim - in addition according to human rights watchers - to be called a 'Christian' there is the greatest insult that can be levied against a person.

In Morocco - we find they are banning all Berber names - the people who resisted the sword of Islamization till the end - must now use Arab names only - or else !!

In Egypt converts from Islam are imprisoned, beaten and tortured, and have their travel documents confiscated (HRW Report), many prefer to live on the run - with their newborns - as they do not wish to forcibly register them as Muslim - it is illegal to leave Islam - or to not practice it if your father was a Muslim. Some practising Christian sisters found to their dismay - when they were told that their estranged father had converted to Islam - and they received 3 year sentences for not practising their faith of Islam.

:.

Is it these things that Muslims should be given respect for?

:.

As I remember Geert Wilders said he has nothing against Muslims - so your calling him a racist - could be considered slanderous ~

And lastly
- do you disagree with the versus in the Koran which Wilders highlights in his film
- and do you disagree that these versus could be used in anyway to support the violent Jihad

- as recorded by the Muslim conquerors of India - that took the lives of 80-100 million people in the name of bringing Islam - to the Hindus and Buddhist there - the area north of India called the Hindu Kush - Kush meaning red with blood - as a testament - to the number of Hindus killed in violent Jihad - that was intent on bringing the continent under the Prophet Muhammad - sometimes killing up to 100,000 a day by some accounts of the Muslim (Raj?).

:.

Islam seems to be going through its own form of an Inquisition - perhaps with more honestly - rather than hiding behind - words like - racism - you might tell us how you see Islam joining the modern world?

Muslims refer to Jews and Christians as 'The People of the Books'. Islam regards itself as a continuation of the idea of one, eternal and indivisible God preached by Patriarch Abraham and other prophets who followed him.

The Christian belief in Trinity and the Jewish denial of Prophets Jesus and Mohammad are the sources of disagreements between the followers of the three great monotheistic religions.

Thank God an interfaith dialog did happen not too long ago at behest of King Abdullah of S. Arabia.

Nevertheless, the Quran still assigns a special place to Christians and Jews as is evident from many verses, including this one:

"And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our God and your God is One and we are committed to observe peace before Him (Al-Ankabut: 46)."

Apart from the differences of details, the long history of political conflict between Islam and Christianity has tended to color the West's view of Islam. In the wake of 9/11 especially, politicians and sections of the media have tended to portray Islam as a religion that preaches perpetual war on the followers of other faiths.

In this well-orchestrated campaign, reference is often made to those verses of the Quran (the collection of which took place over 22 years) which were revealed in actual battle conditions when Muslims were fighting for their survival. Reading them out of context would obviously lead to a gross misunderstanding of the teachings of Islam.

While terrorist groups in the Muslim world have done enormous harm to the image of Islam, inter-religious harmony, and coexistence, politicians, sections of the media and even responsible people in the Western world have not helped matters by utterances that hurt Muslim religious sentiments.

Pope Benedict should take a lead in encouraging a dialog among the intellectuals of the three faiths and perhaps follow the commendable example set by his predecessor, Pope John Paul II, who relentlessly worked for inter-faith harmony, understanding and coexistence.

In his commentary published in Chicago Tribune of Sept. 19, Prof Emeritus, Marty Martin of the University of Chicago Divinity School, wrote:

" I know I'll get hit for suggesting "equivalencies" here, though I am always clear in stating that there is no equivalency between today's radical and extreme Muslims and today's ordinary Christians. But it also must be said that Christians, from the 4th Century to the 18th Century, can match the Muslims one-for-one when it comes to having spread the faith with the sword. Read the history of the Christianization of Europe, and you have to go hunting for that minority of the faithful who spread the faith without the sword, merely by witness and works."
********************************************************

Now that Christianity has been spread and more than 1/5 th of the World is Christian, there is no more need for Christians to be extremist except to wait for the Armageddon.

Geert Wilders is a black spot on humanity. All extremism must be condemned no matter where it comes from.

Geert Wilders is a creep, to be sure. Certainly no one that I would like to have a conversation with. But criticising him because he "mistakenly" believes that that the Koran is a book of violence is beyond the pale.
This "holy" book, like the Old Testament, is chock full of violence directed not only at infidels but also believers who stray from the teachings therein.
Me thinks Eboo Patel needs to take some time to actually read this piece of violent tripe before criticizing anyone--even the likes of Wilder--who would suggest that the Koran is not all Kumbaya and required reading for the peaceful among us.

"The fact that "Fitna" is being shown in the Capitol DOES put on display the BEST of America. (Sorry for the all caps; not shouting, just emphasizing.) It shows that a free people, a people in which the First Amendment is still taken seriously, can even permit offensive speech, can afford others the soapbox on which to rant."

If thats your logic then I guess Ahmadinejad, Richard Williamson and their likes would be guest stars to the Capitol Hill.

All what Geert Wilders seeks is attention and Muslims should not give it to him. He will wither away like all others of his type.

Such a far-right leader with very extreme views being invited to Capitol Hill amazes me. The US of all places, I thought such an element like Wilders wouldn't find a voice.

The fact that "Fitna" is being shown in the Capitol DOES put on display the BEST of America. (Sorry for the all caps; not shouting, just emphasizing.) It shows that a free people, a people in which the First Amendment is still taken seriously, can even permit offensive speech, can afford others the soapbox on which to rant. Screening the film in the Capitol says "In America, we allow even religious bigots the freedom to spew their venom", provided only that in the process, they do not cross Justice Holmes's "clear and present danger" line. If there were a serious prospect that the screening of "Fitna" would result in the wholesale lynching of Muslims and the burning of mosques, that would be one thing. But there is no such serious prospect -- precisely because we do allow others freedom of discourse. Jim ... who remembers the McCarthy era clearly enough to be very nervous, also, about your assertion that showing the film is not "American". What's next, Eboo? Reviving the House Un-American Activities Committee?

The answer to bad speech is more speech and Eboo Patel is welcome to speak all he likes. Somewhere in the middle lies the truth about Islam. It is neither and implacable menace, nor a true friend. For my part, I must insist that films like Geert Wilder's should be shown to offset the happy talk about Islam that is replete in the mainstream media.

We will find our way to a wary coexistence with Islam because friendship begins first with tolerance and that tolerance must be a two way street.

Europe has been overrun with Muslim immigrants; they are a great threat to civilization as we know it. America hasdbetter beware or Muslims here will also threaten out way of life.

At one time Islam was no more dangerous than any religious culture, like rabid Christianity. But Christianity and Judaism have shown themselves able to become more moderate, not moderate enough but more moderate. There is no evidence that Muslims have ever left the mindset of the middle ages.