CCNL:

I can only pity you if your upper chamber is empty and eyes blind.

if you are so knowledgeable, then tell me- how do you believe that a certain person is your father.

Now dont bring DNA test story inside - just in a natural way tell me how will you prove.

Can you name if there is any mental domains other than cognitive faculty. now come on let us have a serious discussion.

Shark, Shark, Shark,

Clear your mind. Now open some neurons. Are you ready??

OK, Islam is based on one foundation i.e. the "revelations" of one, pretty, wingie, talking, fictional thingie named Gabriel.

That fact alone should be enough to save you from any additional flaws of Islam. Enjoy your new life!!!

Abhab:

Sorry you have nothing new to say.
When you do not believe that Quran is Word of God then what sense it makes to go into details and hence into senseless discussion.

Intentions matters - with filthy intentions even you cannot give respect to your own mother.

Snakes and scorpions is also creation of the Lord.
Even if you keep them with love and affection they never miss a chance to bite you.
Such is the condition of non-believers - their own apprehensions and fears compel them to bite as they see human beings, as terrorists.

SPARK1 lists some “Comments on Quran and Prophet Muhammad”.
Below is one more.
“A book with no chronology of events or a sustained theme other than a supremacist diatribe , incitement against the other and self serving to its author. It is riddled with inconsistencies and outright contradictions. It lists legends and myths from Arab and Persian pagans as the literal words of the Creator along with embellished stories from the Old and New Testaments as well as the Jewish Talmud. It is full of scientific heresies, mathematical mistakes, historical blunders, grammatical errors and logical fallacies. The book talks of flying horses, speaking ants and arguing birds. It describes an afterlife gardens with rivers of wine and honey and brimming with young black eyed receptive beauties placed there simply to service Mohammad and his followers.”

Some Comments on Quran and Prophet Muhammad:

Mohammad’s newest biographer, Ludolf Krehl (das leben des Mohamamad, Leipzig, 1884), expresses it: “There is given a complete code of creed and morals, as well as of the law based thereupon. There are also the foundations laid for every institution of an extensive commonwealth, for instruction, for the administration of justice, for military organization, for the finances, for a most careful legislation for the poor; all built up on the belief in the One God, who holds man’s destinies in His hand.”

…. Here, therefore, its merits as a literary production should, perhaps, not be measured by some preconceived maxims of subjective and aesthetic taste, but by the effects which it produced in Mohammad’s contemporaries and fellow countrymen. If it spoke so powerfully and convincingly to the hearts of his hearers as to weld hitherto centrifugal and antagonistic elements into one compact and well organized body, animated by ideas far beyond those which had until now ruled the Arabian mind, then its eloquence was perfect, simply because it created a civilized nation out of savage tribes and shot a fresh woof into the old warp of history.” {Dictionary of Islam By Thomas Hughes page 526}

An Englishman by the name of Stanley Lane- Poole, in his Introduction to Lane’s “Selections from the Quran”, remarks:

“It is confused in its progression and strangely mixed in its contents; but the development of Mohammad’s faith can be traced in it, and we can see dimly into the workings of his mind, as it struggles with the deep things of God, wrestles with the doubts which echoed the cavils of the unbelievers, soars upwards on the wings of ecstatic faith, till at last it gains the repose of fruition, Studied thus, the Quran is no longer dull reading to one who cares to look upon the workings of a passionate , troubled human soul, and who can enter into its trials and share in the joy of its triumphs.” {Dictionary of Islam by Thomas Hughes page 526}

A POOR SHEPHERD PEOPLE, ROAMING UNNOTICED IN ITS DESERTS SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD: A HERO-PROPHET WAS SENT DOWN TO THEM WITH A WORD THEY COULD BELIEVE: SEE, THE UNNOTICED BECOMES WORLD-NOTABLE, THE SMALL HAS GROWN WORLD-GREAT; WITHIN ONE CENTURY AFTERWARDS, ARABIA IS AT GRENADA (Spain) ON THIS HAND, AT DELHI (India) ON THAT; -GLANCING IN VALOUR AND SPLENDOUR AND THE LIGHT OF GENIUS, ARABIA SHINES THROUGH LONG AGES OVER A GREAT SECTION OF THE WORLD. BELIEF IS GREAT, LIFE-GIVING. THE HISTORY OF A NATION BECOMES FRUITFUL, SOUL ELEVATING, GREAT, SO SOON AS IT BELIEVES. THESE ARABS, THE MAN MAHOMET, AND THAT ONE CENTURY, -IS IT NOT AS IF A SPARK HAD FALLEN, ONE SPARK, ON A WORLD OF WHAT SEEMED BLACK UNNOTICEABLE SAND; BUT LO, THE SAND PROVES EXPLOSIVE POWDER, BLAZES HEAVEN HIGH FROM DELHI TO GRENADA! I SAID, THE GREAT MAN WAS ALWAYS AS LIGHTNING OUT OF HEAVEN; THE REST OF MEN WAITED FOR HIM LIKE FUEL, AND THEN THEY TOO WOULD FLAME."

Thus concluded the speech of Thomas Carlyle, one of the greatest thinkers of the past century. It was Friday, the 8th of May 1840. His theme — "The Hero as Prophet" His audience: were Anglicans — English Christians.

Mohammed most famous/influential??? How about simply infamous as noted below:

Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/ plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels"/"pretty, wingie, fictional thingies" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the massacre in Mumbai, the assassinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

Hatred of the other is an integral part of this cult they call Islam.
The Fatiha (Opening) is the first sura (chapter) of the Qur’an and most common prayer of
Islam. If you’re a pious Muslim who prays the five requisite daily prayers of Islam, you will recite the Fatiha seventeen times in the course of one day.
The final two verses of the Fatiha asks Allah: “Show us the straight path, the path of those whom Thou hast favored; not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.” The Muslim scholars explain that “the latter two paths He (Allah) described here are both misguided,” and that those “two paths are the paths of the Christians and Jews, a fact that the believer should beware of so that he/she avoids them.
Now there are Elementary school textbooks that preach this incitement against non-Muslims living amongst them as shown in the link cited below.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/018538.php

The stature of the Prophet (PBUH) is great indeed; as the author of the book "Islam and Modern Age" a Hindu professor wrote the following about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH):

"The personality of Muhammad! It is most difficult to get into the truth of it. Only a glimpse of it I can catch. What a dramatic succession of picturesque scenes. There is Muhammad the Prophet, there is Muhammad the General; Mohammad the King; Muhammad the Warrior; Muhammad the Businessman; Mohammad the Preacher; Mohammad the Philosopher; Mohammad the Statesman; Mohammad the Spokesperson; Mohammad the reformer; Muhammad the Refuge for orphans; Muhammad the Protector of slaves; Mohammad the Emancipator of woman; Muhammad the husband; Muhammad the father; Muhammad the educator; Muhammad the Law-giver; Muhammad the Judge; Muhammad the Saint and etc. In all these magnificent roles, in all these departments of human activities, he is like a hero! Orphan hood is an extreme form of helplessness and his life upon this earth began with it; Kingship is the height of material power and it ended with it! From an orphan boy to a persecuted refugee and then to an overlord, spiritual as well as temporal, of a whole nation and arbiter of its destinies, with all its trials and temptations, with all its vicissitudes and changes, its lights and shades, its ups and downs, its terror and splendor, he has withstood the fire of the world and came out unscathed to serve as a model in every face of life. His achievements are not limited to one aspect of life, but cover the whole field of human conditions."

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) - Untainted and Pure

"After the fall of Mecca, more than one million square miles of land lay at his feet. Lord of Arabia, he mended his own shoes and coarse woolen garments, milked the goats, swept the earth, kindled the fire and attended the other menial offices of the family. The entire town of Medina where he lived grew in wealth in the later days of his life. Everywhere there was gold and silver in plenty and yet in those days of prosperity many weeks would elapse without a fire being kindled in the hearth of the king of Arabia; his food being dates and water. His family would go hungry many nights successively because they could not get anything to eat in the evening. He slept on no soft bed but on a palm mat, after a long busy day to spend most of his night in prayer, often bursting into tears before his Creator to grant him strength to discharge his duties. As the reports go, his voice would get choked with weeping and it would appear as if a cooking pot was on fire and boiling had commenced. On the very day of his death his only assets were few coins a part of which went to satisfy a debt and rest was given to a needy person who came to his house for charity. The clothes in which he breathed his last breath had many patches. The house from where light had spread to the world was in darkness because there was no oil in the lamp. Circumstance changed, but the Prophet of God did not. In victory or in defeat, in power or in adversity, in affluence or in indigence, he is the same man, disclosed the same character. Like all the ways and laws of God, Prophets of God are unchangeable."

Professor Ramakrishna Rao, "Islam and Modern Age"

The personality of Prophet Muhammad as seen by Non-Muslims:

"The 100 - a Ranking of the Most Influential Person in History" by Michael H. Hart, a Christian American, an astronomer, a mathematician, a chess master, and a scientist. After extensive research, he rated prophet Muhammad (PBUH) as number one and to be considered as the most influential single figure in human history.

"My choice of Muhammad to lead the list of the world's most influential person may surprise some readers and may be questioned by others, but he was the only man in history who was supremely successful on both the religious and secular levels. It is probable that the relative influence of Muhammad on Islam has been larger than the combined influence of Jesus Christ and St. Paul on Christianity. Furthermore, Muhammad (unlike Jesus) was a secular as well as religious leader. In fact, as the driving force behind the Arab conquests, he may well rank as the most influential political leader of all time. It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence, which I feel, entitles Muhammad to be considered the most influential single figure in human history."

Mahatma Gandhi, speaking on the character of Muhammad, (pbuh) says in (Young India):

"I wanted to know the best of one who holds today's undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind. I became more than convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for his pledges, his intense devotion to this friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the 2nd volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of the great life."

Abhab:

You do have any positive comments to make or you just spit venom against muslims and Islam.
your hate and jealousy held in itself a sort of punishment.

clearthinking1:

You wrote:
The issue you have chosen to write about is a very serious one. Many people around the world have given it a lot more thought than you have. The violence due to Islam is very real and painful for a lot of us.

The violence by those Hindu extemists committed is Gujrat killing hundreds of innocent civilian was also very painful and why you do not mention the killings now going on in Gaza?
You forget terrorism has roots well in 1971 when india trained and sent militant groups in then east pakistan, it seem that is the thread picked up by the others.

You said:
Sadly, violence is at the heart of Islam. In almost all cultures today, children are taught to cherrish cute little lambs. In Islamic cultures, even children are taught to rejoice as lambs are ritualistically and religiously decapitated slowly, as their warm blood squirts everywhere, eyes full of terror, and voices squealing for their mothers.

You are spilling crocodile tears over "small lambs", your word spins is quite amusing. You misrepresent the facts "little lambs" cannot be sacrificed.Few stupids graze grass while majority of the world slaughter thousands of animals each day for meat which is essential part of human beings.

You said:
For example, Koran chaper 9 verse 5:
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and kill the nonbelievers wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem."

When the non-believers came with a mind to fight in great numbers then what you think the opponent side will do? should they put garlands in their necks?

Islam is spreading fast and a large number of people are embracing Islam, I believe it is out of jealousy that persons like you began a smear campaign against Islam.

Westtexan2008 suggests:

” Islam must 'clean up its own act' from the inside out, before its voice will be heard and believed.”

If this means to erase the Quran verses which incite violence, the book will be gutted out to where it would no longer be recognizable. Furthermore its adherents would no longer be Muslims.

Eboo, Eboo, Eboo,

Please read the posts below by AROSSCPA and RKSINGH1987.

The issue you have chosen to write about is a very serious one. Many people around the world have given it a lot more thought than you have. The violence due to Islam is very real and painful for a lot of us.

Your approach to the problem of religious violence seems to be as an apologist for Islamic violence by calling it extremist or fringe. I know you want to believe that because of your identity confusion issues as an Indian muslim growing up in America.

Sadly, violence is at the heart of Islam. In almost all cultures today, children are taught to cherrish cute little lambs. In Islamic cultures, even children are taught to rejoice as lambs are ritualistically and religiously decapitated slowly, as their warm blood squirts everywhere, eyes full of terror, and voices squealing for their mothers.

Don't forget the Holy Quran and The Prophets's (Peace? be upon him) words coming directly from Allah.
For example, Koran chaper 9 verse 5:
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and kill the nonbelievers wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem."

"Moderate muslims" are good people inspite of their religion. I suspect many do not even believe in the infallibility of the Quran. They are too afraid or too confused (Eboo) to simply let go and find something better. Instead, they talk about how its everyone else's fault for misunderstanding, misstating, prejudging, missinterpreting, mistaking Muslim actions and words. Words like "kill" mean kill, not peace.

Enough! Eboo. Enough warm and fuzzy statements. Enough deflections and obfuscations. Enough pretending that violence is not part of the core of Islam. You fool no one, but yourself.

You provide cover for some of your fellow muslims who have violence and hatred in their hearts, but they have you as their confused Indian apologist to provide cover. THIS is your crime.

Religion is only a part of an individuals identity. India and Pakistan divided on the basis of religion. Later urdu speaking Pakistan and Bangladeshi speaking Bangladesh fought each other and became two seperate countries.

European civil war ended when they formed European Economic Council [ How can we make money together ]. So it is time to think beyond religion.

You've got to be kidding.

White-phosphorus is contained in grenades marked "white smoke" and used to mark positions. But one does need to use care with it. It does burn in water. There are many elements used in war that are dangerous. Why pick on this one?

I do not think it sufficient for moderate Islamists to apologize for or condemn acts of terror by coreligionists. As the Catholic faith has spent the last century explaining how many abuses committed by Catholics intrinsically violate the theological anthropology of the Church, so Islamists need to provide us with intellectually solid arguments explaining that the violence spoken of in the Koran and practiced by terrorists in the name of Islam are true violations of Moslem theology and anthropology.

Dear Eboo, the report posted by you is more of your wish list- muslims speaking for peace. I stay in a country where muslims consist of 15% population on an average. Hindus are 80%. America has not yet seen the real effect of Islamic fanatism. They are lucky- they are oceans away with less than 1% muslim population. The situation in my country is very different. Muslims covertly support terrorists in their jihad. Any terrorist killed in an encounter is labelled as an innocent and there are mass protests, this kind of attitude is very conducive for the growth of terror. Terrorists will become bold and fight from behind burkhas as it is happeneing in India. I am a hindu, we were persecuted for centuries by Persians,moghuls, turks, greeks, brits etc. So do you find any terrorists amongst hindus? we get along well whereever we are. Muslims need to learn a lot from hindus.

Generally i found muslims to be very divisive, scheming,violent,and all things bad. The community needs to look inwards and do some soul searching. Crying hoarse is no use. Good deds will speak for themselves.

orpheus2004, (for your eyes only since the following has been noted many times on the On Faith blog :

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a
mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.

Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

Current crisis:

Realization that the Jews are not god's chosen people.
www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. and http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html
For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

3. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology. .

The flaws and errors of Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism have also been summarized and are available upon request.

Notice how commenters like "peaceful2008" and "ukba" naturally go to their anti-Israel rants. Typical.

As for Eboo Patel, the anti-terrorism pronouncements to which he refers did not include the killing of Jewish people, nor did such pronouncements include any definition of terrorism. And he knows it.

Typical Eboo Patel.

Peaceful2008,

Very good! I agree and condemn terrorism as well.
I believe we have common ground for discussion.

Westtexan,

I categorically and wholeheartedly condemn all acts of terrorism, targeting innocent civilians, etc by Muslim extremists anywhere!

I believe that the Muslim world would be in much better shape had these acts were not committed. If you rewind to pre-9/11 America, the US Muslim relations were improving.

Period.

Now let me also say that in politics, you cannot always take things as they appear and nuance is everything. Rewind to the British colonial doctrine of divide and conquer.

Imagine a playground where a strong bully (or two) has been oppressing and bullying kids for a long time. The oppressed kids, once they develop a little courage , or ability to fight back, may act in desperate ways to attack the over-powering bully.

As Nitzsche said: "when you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks unto you"

Eboo writes:

"peacemaking efforts are organic to the tradition of Islam itself" - MAYBE.

Violence is organic to the tradition of Islam itself - DEFINITELY.

"Violent extremists are on one edge of the Muslim community, but they are counterbalanced by a growing movement of Muslim peacemakers." - WISHFUL THINKING.

The phrase "muslim peacemaker" is an oxymoron. VIOLENCE AND ISLAM CANNOT BE SEPARATED. ITS IN THE KORAN. ITS IN THE HISTORY. ITS IN THE PRESENT. IT WILL BE THERE IN THE FUTURE.

Just put the book down and walk away. Trying to pretend that Islam can be rehabilitated into a peaceful religion by putting out a few statements or "interfaith dialogue" is part of the PROBLEM. Try to be objective and aim for real reform of Islamic culture.

Peaceful2008,

A challenge for you. Here and now and in this forum, would you - without any conditions - publicly condemn those Muslims who have killed innocents in the name of Islam. I include the 9/11 murderers, the Mumbai assassins, the Bali bombers and dozens of others who, in the name of Islam, chose murder as an evalgelistic tool. Will you also condemn those who cheered their actions as inhuman monsters they are who deserve Allah's greatest wrath?

Peaceful2008,
I don't call you names and would appreciate if you displayed the same common courtesy. I am not Zionist, Jewish or a particular friend of Israel. If anything, I am a bit the other way. But having lived in Arab and Muslim countries off and on for most of my adult life, I have grown very weary of the Arab and Muslim excuse-makers.

I condemn all war crimes - those committed by Israel and those committed by Hamas, et al.

But Israel alone doesn't seem to be the problem. As Samuel Huntington pointed out, everywhere that Islam touches explodes in violence. In every nation that takes on a significant group of Muslims, violence breaks out. Why is it that Islam fails in all of its external (and many of its internal) relationships? Islam needs to hear this - You (Islam) are the one constant in all of your failed relationships. Maybe it is you.

Let me also - respectfully - point out that this is a forum about Muslim inititives for peace. As of yet, Eboo is the only Muslim I can see advocating peace without the pre-condition of destroying Israel and/or other non-Muslims.

WPC 09 pontificates thus:
“Observers should be willing to investigate and understand how Islam was an advance over what came before, and study the way the Prophet Muhammad acted both in his capacity as a human being, as a Revealer, and as a head of state.”

This is the crux of the dilemma; observing Muslims trying to emulate their prophet. That is why the Muslim scholars and clerics are in the forefront of the campaign against the rest of the world. They use the actions and writings of their prophet as their guide and are convinced of its validity for every time and place. This is why they moved out of history and seem to move in a cycle centered in the 7th Century that turns around itself and advances to nowhere.

Westtexan!!,

We don't need to wait for Muslims before we condemn the war crimes commited by Judeo-terrorists in charge of Israeli government and military. That condemnation can have a life of its own! You don't need to pass the blame on to Muslims to exonerate the Zio-terrorists. This trick doesn't work anymore.

Try reading the post by Dennis Kucinich on the power barometer today, it will educate you and maybe through a small crack, a little humanity will flow through your rock-hard Zionist heart!!

"Afrasiabi: You have called for a Congressional report on Israel's possibly illegal use of US weapons in Gaza. Please elaborate.

Kucinich: The United States signed an agreement in 2007 to provide $30 billion in military assistance to Israel over a period of ten years. The terms of that agreement are bound by the Arms Export Control Act of 1976, which says that any arms given to another country by the United States must only be used for defensive purposes. I think that a fair reading of Israel's attack on Gaza shows that Israel was involved in an offensive strike, actually inflamed the situation, and did massive damage and loss of life for civilians. So I think that a case exists to raise questions of law relating to Israel's use of US planes, helicopters and munitions against Gaza"

Peaceful2008 stated: "We need to be as vocal against Judeo-terrorism as we are about Islamo-terrorism."

Yes. And as soon as any major Muslim organization rejects the aggressive spread of Islam and the use of violence by Islamic terrorists to do so, then your comments will have more validity. As it stands, no significant Muslim voice for peace exists, preferring to blame the situation on Israel. It's always somebody else's fault. It is time for the Muslim world to take responsiblity for the actions of violent Muslims, rather than celebrating them. Islam must 'clean up its own act' from the inside out, before its voice will be heard and believed.

Let us open our minds:

Attacks of 9/11, purportedly committed by Islamic extremists, killed 3000 innocent civilians and created the pretext to murder hundreds of thousand civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Financial crimes committed by mainly Jewish and partly Christian executives, and bankers have ruined millions of people's lives for now and the future.

War crimes committed by Israel routinely, and by US military (AbuGharaib, Quantanamo) kill hundreds of thousand of people.

So why are we so focused on the crimes of Muslims?

Garak,
The Juancole group is a white, Christian, Western group. Finding Westerners who reject Islamic violence is easy. Please give us the link to any major Muslim organization, particularly one in a Muslim country, that categorically rejects Islamic terrorism.

To Garak,

Actually, White-phosphorus as a military weapon is made in the USA and given to Israel as a gift for Passover!

I would like to hear from any Jewish commentator that the use of white phosphorus on civilians is wrong! and yes I firmly believe that Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel are wrong and stupid.

I believe that the Israeli/US military use of white phosphorus on women and children has no tactical use. It is just added to create more hatred and pain on the other side so that then we can condemn their shouting and clinched fists!

To Westtexan!! and Chrisr,

I am not suggesting that Israel is the source of all evil behavior out of Muslim world. The point is that we cannot expect the Muslim world to warm up to us while we have been funding, supplying and defending Israeli war crimes versus the Muslim palestinians.

We need to be as vocal against Judeo-terrorism as we are about Islamo-terrorism. Somehow the mainstream mentality has shifted to an Israelo-centric view of the world. Well, we have to admit that there has been a lot of murder commited in the name of protecting "Jews" by the Israeli military, no worse in effect than what the mullahs in Iran have committed.

We all feel sorry for any innocent person killed whether by the fanatics in Tehran or their equal couterparts in Tel aviv. But try voicing that opinion as an elected official in the United States and your career is over (see AIPAC, ADL)

WestTexan2008 asked for "a few links to major Muslim organizations - moderate or otherwise - that categorically reject Muslim extremist violence..."

Here's one with which to start:

http://www.juancole.com/2005/07/friedman-wrong-about-muslims-again-and.html

Farnaz2: The 400+ dead children in Gazaushwitz say hello to you.

Peace will come to the Middle East when the rain washes away the Zio-fascist scum like you. You can start by drinking some white phosphorous. The kind made in Israel.

Hey CCNL:

Clean up the Bible, the Bhagvad Gita and every other religious text and then you can pick on just the Koran...ALL religious texts have some reference to violence. Your ignorance and insidiousness in selectively targeting one scripture exposes your dirty hands...and heart!!!

Eboo,

Clean up the koran and then get back to us about the peaceful nature of Islam.

There is a war waging between the moderates of all religions and all extremists. The weapon of the extremists is hate and lies. The weapons of the moderates is truth and goodwill.

I see articles that tell lies to generate hate. Then I see articles like this. Eboo Patel is one of the good guys.

There is a war waging between the moderates of all religions and all extremists. The weapon of the extremists is hate and lies. The weapons of the moderates is truth and goodwill.

I see articles that tell lies to generate hate. Then I see articles like this. Eboo Patel is one of the good guys.

I am confused by several of the posters on this site.

To them, Israel is the cause of all of the world’s problems and particularly those relating to Muslim peace. I’m not sure how they do it, but Israel is the most powerful country in history, controlling over a billion people by proxy. Somehow, Muslims in the U.S. plot terror against their adopted country because of Israel. Somehow, Muslims in Pakistan attack Mumbai because of Israel. Somehow, Muslims in Indonesia and Nigeria destroy Christian Mission Schools because of Israel. Is there no level to which these dastardly Israelis will not stoop – using the poor, peaceful Muslim to foment violence?

Or is it something else? It seems that the Muslim world is conditioned to reflexively claim victimhood and blame Israel for anything that befalls them. I lived in Bahrain at the time of the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Iraq. Even though the Sunni resistance in Iraq proudly claimed credit for the bombing, Shi’a in Iraq, Iran, Bahrain and throughout the Middle East blamed Israel and held anti-Israel demonstrations. After the tsunami of December 2004, there was a general tenor throughout the Middle East that somehow it was Israel’s fault and the blood of so many South-Asian Muslims was on Israel’s hands.

With that in mind, could we get back to the topic at hand - peaceful, moderate Muslims?

Peaceful2008:

First there is not now, nor has there ever been an entity "Semite." The term was coined at the end of the eighteenth century and was then used by German linguists in the nineteenth to refer to a group of languages.

It was then taken up in, I believe, 1879, by William Marr, in the context of anti-Jewish. At that point, "Jews," for some benighted persons were understood to be a race. In other words, these persons, were racists. They used the term anti-Semitic in a positive sense.

Since then, the reification of Jews, terms like "Semite," are not used. Hence, anti-Jewish bigotry is simply called, antisemtism, or racism since this bigotry shares the same assumptions as racism.
________________________
If you think that the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, was correct in arresting our family friend Ismael, murdering him as they took him into "custody" for the crime of having integrity, if you think that Iranian Muslim persectution, torture, death, theft, of Iranian Jews (Persian Jews) is justifiable, and that I am mistaken in mourning Ismael, etc., we have nothing to say to one another.

When he was murdered, I was a girl. His blood got on my clothing. We had as much right to live freely in my country as anyone else.

Not that it should matter one bit, but Ismael was Muslim. I don't like to mention this at all. I hope he will forgive me. We would like to bury him, my family, his family. We want to know where he is.

well boo boy is at it again, lying for islam.
islam is not a religion it is a death cult.
islam demands, not suggests, or allows, but DEMANDS THAT ISLAMICS:
not have jews christians or islamics or hindu's as friends
do not do business with jews or christians or hindu's
that it is COMMANDED that islamics spread islam by force and to that end they can kidnapp, torture, rape, and murder.
that islamics can give you a choice - death or convert.
islam is not a religion it is a death cult.
islamics talk about wanting isreal back so let play give it back.
when islam give back what it took by force, mecca, arabia, iran, iraq, afghanistan, all the stans, india, north africia, east africia, west africia, turkey - the original seat of christians, and pays reparations for enslaving the spanish, southern italians, sicily, and for sacking rome twice, maybe then we can talk about tiving israel back.
oups - islamics took that by force too.
looks like you get nothing - YOU LYING THEIVES.

"Hard to advocate normal relations when the US single-handedly blocks all UN resolutions that condemn Israeli war crimes."

Good joke. The UN has passed hundreds of anti-Israel resolutions in its history, and continues to churn them out at the average rate of one per month. Of course, that does not count the so-called UN Human-Rights-Council, which has its own production line for anti-israel resolutions.

At the same time there have never been any resolutions condemning any Arab country in either the UNHRC or the General Assembly, which means that in the eyes of these organizations all Arab countries - make that all Muslim countries - are as pure and clean as fresh snow and can simply do no wrong, so I don't see why the Muslim population of the US should have any problem.

As to what people in Muslim majority nations really think, here are the results of Pew surveys, along with western attitudes toward Islam. The opinions among the big population centers of Muslims, Pakistan and Indonesia do not favor Mr. Patel's hypothesis.

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=248

Eboo Patel's point here is that people hear what they want to hear. The peacemaking and moderate voices of Islam are often ignored, admittedly because the fanatics are making too much noise. One terrorist act submerges a thousand acts of good will. Observers should be willing to investigate and understand how Islam was an advance over what came before, and study the way the Prophet Muhammad acted both in his capacity as a human being, as a Revealer, and as a head of state.

hsnkhwj wrote that there are three western religions, the youngest of which is Islam. He is incorrect. There is a fourth - the Baha'i Faith - which is a revealed world religion founded in the 19th century, well after Islam. Baha'u'llah, whom 6 millions Baha'is believe to be the Manifestation or Messenger of God for this time, was exiled from Tehran to Baghdad, to Istanbul and Edirne, and finally to Akko in Ottoman Palestine (now Israel). The Baha'i Faith is in the line of the Abrahamic religions, while also recognizing the divine origin of Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, and Buddhism. These religions are the progressively revealed parts of a single Faith.

Reviewing the posts here, including my own, it is clear that the road to peace and justice is blocked by our memory of past and present injustices.

Hard to advocate normal relations when the US single-handedly blocks all UN resolutions that condemn Israeli war crimes. Or the Muslim masses who don't categorically reject targeting civilians. Violence begets violence begets violence....

Good will may start to put a dent in this vicious cycle. Maybe a movie can be made that shows the suffering on all sides and brings attention to the real blood and pain.

Eboo says:
"Violent extremists are on one edge of the Muslim community, but they are counterbalanced by a growing movement of Muslim peacemakers."

It seems every terrorist act or conspiracy to commit one, especially in the West , was hatched in a mosque and presided by that mosque’s imam. The latest being in Melbourne Australia were the imam is an Algerian national who emigrated there in 1989. To me this means that the Muslim preachers are the ones fomenting the discord. Instead of teaching their congregations to have gratitude toward the societies that rescued them from their failed societies they instead are inciting the Jihad against the West . This is in accordance with the Arabic idiom that says :“Beware of those to whom you do a favor”.

Why do people have to delve 500 years into the past to find examples of Muslim tolerance and innovation?

Perhaps if we only gave them back control of Spain, all would be peace and lightness again.

There were plenty of cameras on 9/11 when they danced in the streets in Egypt and Gaza. There were plenty of microphones when a Saudi "Prince" tried to explain the reasons of the terrorists, causing Giuliani to tear up his check. I have yet to see anyone representing Islam go through a whole discussion of terrorism w/o trying to give it a rationale rather than a shamed apology. IF there are "moderate Muslims" they have kept themselves well hidden in a world of apologists for terrorists. Sorry, I'm not buying this B.S. at this late date. We know how they feel; now we just get to see how they cover up those feelings. We need not keep invading random Muslim countries, but neither should we EVER forget that they aren't our friends.

First things first!!! Correct the flaws and errors in contemporary religions and the acrimony amongst said religions will disappear.

e.g. the flaws and errors of Christianity for those eyes have seen only the reiteration of the NT-

Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/ carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics. and http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current crises:

Pedophiliac priests, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current crises:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology

What are Western religions?

The answer: religions that emerged on the lands west of Jerusalem - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Although Western religions are not identical and differ markedly in many details, they share a common ethos - monotheism. Islam is the youngest of these religions and Muslims regard Judaism and Christianity as two other great monotheistic religions.

The adherents of the monotheistic faiths believe in human equality by virtue of birth, respect life and recognize not only human rights, but also the rights of animals, plants and the environment. We honor our parents, love our families and care for them, we recognize the rights and duties of our spouses, take care of the needy, poor, and the helpless, and we believe in not waging wars that decimate innocent people.

Do we really adhere to these ideals today? Have the people of the Western religions ever lived in peace and harmony?

The answer is: indeed they have. The book, "The Ornament of the World: How Muslims, Jews, and Christians Created a Culture of Tolerance in Medieval Spain" (2000: Little Brown Co.) by Yale professor, Maria Rosa Menocal, provides a good reading on the subject.

The book is a story of an extraordinary place and time. Both history and literature often depict the Middle Ages as a dark and barbaric period characterized by intellectual backwardness and religious persecution.

Menocal brings us an altogether different picture of this part of medieval Europe, where tolerance was often the rule and literature, science, and art flourished in a climate of cultural openness.

So, a good Christian, a good Muslim, or a good Jew is someone who wants to live in peace in the 21st century, believing in interfaith understanding and is less interested in fighting for a narrow identity by advocating human equality, peace and justice. By advocating these values and holding high ethical standards, many atheists deserve recognition for being good human beings.

Mr Patel,
does the Qu'ram teaches peace or war? Do american Muslims reject the Qu'ram? All statements of peace are to be considered only temporary as long they don't reject the Qu'ram. Mr. Patel, when was the last time you have read that book? Are you so naive and gullible to believe that in a mountan's cave near Mecca about 14 centuries ago it really happened you-know-what? Mr. Patel, wake up.

It appears that a bunch of Islamophobes swarm this site. In their well orchestrated campaign to malign Muslims they use rhetorical intimidation, inuendos, disinformation and distort history.

A dialog is an exchange of ideas in which the participants exchange ideas without rhetorical intimidation and distortion. These Islamophobes never acknowledge what good things about Islam have been written by their own people, because it does not fit their agenda. Bernard Lewis or Uri Avneri come to mind.

In medieval Spain a great number of Jewish scholars prospered and worked with Muslims and Christians. One can read Yale Professor, Maria Rosa Menocal's book, THE ORNAMENT OF THE WORLD.

I would suggest that Americans have benefitted and will continue to benefit from learning more about Islam. However, I have rarely seen it written that the Islamic world could benefit from learning more about the West and its values. I think it is fair to say that the Islamic world does not fully understand Western values or much about the reality of Israel. The propaganda in the Muslim world about America and Israel is poisoned, and does not reflect the truth about either society or its potential to aid the Islamic world to thrive and prosper without losing their important cultural connections. I would like to see some evidence that the Islamic world is trying to better understand the West, as the West tries to better understand Islam. I wonder how Mr. Patel feels about this, and what efforts he is making to inform the Islamic world more accurately about the West.

One only has to read the comments here to notice that the sentiment for resentment and revenge is much more prevalent than the sentiment for peace among the Umma, and this is among the elite that have access to the internet.

Farnaz2:

There is no such thing as a Persian Jew. Jews are defined by their blood line and as you must be aware, Jews, like Arabs, are semitic people.

You seem to suggest that if a Jewish person ever lived on a particular location over the past 5 thousand years, that somehow that land belongs to the Jewish people. Or maybe that means that GOD wanted the land to belong to the Jewish person.

I am not so sure if history works that way. Are Greeks claiming North Africa because Alexander passed by there? Does Austria belong to Italy because the Romans beat the Barbarians there?

I think you only represent the point of view of the Zionists who claim what they want and create the pretext for it (see Judeo-terrorism)

Contrary to the Zionist view, Jews don't own everything in the world. Your sense of entitlement is sickening and nasty and belongs in the trash can of history

Uqba,

A quick reply. I don't know who this Hart fellow is but he has no understanding of what is actually meant by Zionism, which for some, who also are clueless, means the equivalent of imperialism. Imperialism is what the US is founded on, lives on, while its indigenous population is slowly being genocided.

To be honest, there is no Zionism, only Zionism(s). The number of Zionist works could fill a library. AT its core stands the right to one's land. This is the same right claimed by the Vietnamese, who, like the Judaeans were continually displaced, killed, etc., but who continually returned.

There has been a Jewish presence in Israel for the last several thousand years, long before Mohamed and long after. Indeed, if you read Amichai's "If I Forget Thee, Jerusalem," (lines from the Bible), which I posted elsewhere, but will post again here, you will see a memoir of a period, his childhood, when Jews and Muslims lived in Jerusalem in peace.

For two thousand years, whenever Jews have been outside of Jerusalem (in the DIASPORA, the scattering, the dispersal), we have prayed facing Jerusalem (Yerushalayim). The word Diaspora originally referred to those Jews forced out of their land. (See dictionary)

At present, since the failure of the Clinton initiative, in my view, as you know, the situation is hopeless. Unlike my Indian and Pakistani friends, I always believed the end of the world would occur in the ME, not in Kashmir.

If you are interested in reading various Zionist works, or interpretations, I can give you sources. What you'll find, at times, is the same kind of defensive, if not bellicose rhetoric that you find on Muslim web sites dealing with Israelis and Palestinians.

Don't get me wrong. I pray for a day when there will be no need for sectarian states, just as you do, but that day has not arrived. For us Jews, who aren't into the conversion business, rethinking our stance on conversion may hold the key. We have many converts, whom we welcome, but we never seek them, unlike Islam and Christianity. I believe that must change. With numbers grows a voice. And Judaism is a great religion, founded on justice.

When we are all no longer "minorities," maybe then we can move to nonsectarianism. Forget all the Muslim and Christian nations, that is those who proclaim themselves to be Muslim and Christian. Look at this, the US, the world's greatest experiment in nonsectarianism, but it is a Christian nation, nonetheless. It is, following Clinton, too late I think, for a two-state solution. No one will accept the single state you would like to see, neither most Palestinians nor most Israelis.

The pity of humanity....

This organization representing "interfaith dialogue" and "peace" is yet another effort by Muslims in US to promote Stealth Jihad. Promoting a "more in common than you think" "feel good" idealology. Ebbo Patel is a "MLT" or "Muslim Leader of Today" who is sponsored by the American Society for the Advancement of Muslims, which is a front organization for the Muslim Brotherhood. They promote "interfaith dialogue" and "understanding" on one hand while they are really trying to Islamicize the USA. For example, Kareem Irfan, who is on the board of Interfaith Youth Core, justified beheadings in 2004 saying they were a an expression of a "primordial sense of retaliation and revenge". The jihad is here, but covered up under a "hip" and "peaceful" organization....watch out.

Uqba,

Thanks for the link. I shall check it out. Good night, my friend.

Farnaz

Farnaz,

I just wrote it that way without checking the "regular" way of spelling it. That's all.

We really don't have much to quarrel about.
I like you even if we have different political views.

On an different note, I have been reading articles from Rabbi Tovia Singer at outreachjudaism.org. He is really good in matters of combating Christian evangelism to the Jewish community. I think you might find his writing interesting and helpful.

How about doing a favor for me and read this article; I find it interesting. We can discuss it some other time if you would like. You can find it here:

http://zionism-realenemyofthejews.com/Anti-Semitism.pdf

So long cousin.

Eboo,
as always, thanks for being a voice of reason, wisdom and understanding. It is so sad always to read the hatred directed towards you here by misguided elements (ie. fundamentalists), regardless of their religous affiliation. As Jesus very clearly stated, blessed are the peacemakers. This was a central tenant of his teachings. And is a central of all major faiths. You get it, they don't. Keep speaking about it and working towards it. As will I. I was sincerely thrilled to see you on the cover of Sojourners, it clearly spoke of our common understandings and calling within the Abrahamic traditions.
God Bless....

All right, I'll stop bringing it up, but what's wrong with Uqba. It's elegant, I think. How on earth did you come up with Ukba?

“You fake Tunisian, not altogether boring, but not very smart blogger.”

Common now, you can do better that. Besides, I know where I am from; why do you have to keep bringing it up over and over again?

I think I know your purpose in all this; would you like for me to post: ukba from Tunisia, north Africa, Arab and Muslim; So that everyone can see. Would that make you happy?

“Have some self-respect, btw., and sign in as Uqba.” Nah I like Ukba.

Ukba,

I know...We've all heard it over and over. First the numbers were wrong. How could they be right? There were ancient Jewish civilizations in Egypt, Iraq, Iran, etc. Have you ever read Rumi? He mentions some Jews of Persia.

We now calculate by generation, just as you do, by generations. When we were forced out of Iran, my daughter, nieces, nephews, had not been born.
On another note, they may never get to see my (their) country. Surely, there parents cannot return to show them.

Anyway, half the time, I don't know what we're arguing about, Uqba.

Farnaz,

This is from a Jewish website:

“Before the Islamic Revolution of 1979, an estimated 120,000 Jews lived in Iran. But afterwards, tens of thousands moved abroad, to the United States, Israel and other countries… Between 20,000 to 25,000 Jews still live in Iran, a country their ancestors chose as home in the 6th century BC after the Babylonian Exile.”

I still don’t see the one million from Iran you are talking about.

I think that number has dwindled to almost nothing now, because I remember reading recently that there were only a handful of families still there but not in the thousands. Which is really a shame. A shame on both sides since the Jewish people have had presence there since, well, forever.

Ukba, not boring, though not bright:

Scroll down. The post above follows that which is below it.

Ukba,

The only collective punishment I'm aware of is that going on right now in Afghanistan and Iraq, on whom you don't even have the simple decency to waste a word. Coward.

Until you renounce IslamoTerror against Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, et al, nothing will happen. INstead of posting to me, you should be posting to "Peaceful2008." Tell him to get his IslamoFacist oil manipulating lobby out of the congress.

Tell the IslamoFacist racist to stop preventing the govenment from closing Saudi Bank, which channels money to his fellow terrorists.

You read the Reuters article. Reuters is anti-Israel, antisemitic. Yet they and every other reputable wire service, posted that Hamas used children, the elderly, women as shields. It's on YouTube. Tell Hamas, that if they want to shoot missiles at innocent civilians, they should act like men. LIKE MEN.
__________________
The problems are endless, at least so far as Jews are concerned, and they go to verbal and physical assault.

First, there can be no justice until the three million Jews, exiled from the Middle East, of whom I am one, are given back their rights, property, etc.

Second: State-run newspapers that publish viscious antisemtic filth in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, etc. need to stop. Vile racist antisemitic garbabe needs to be removed from the curricula in all ME countries and among the Palestinians. I could easily start posting YouTube videos. The same is true of Pakistan.

Third: Europe, rather than "conduct studies" on antisemitism, post advice for how European Jews should protect themselves against Muslim aggression, must be responsible for protecting its citizens and arresting miscreants.

Fourth: Palestinians must stop firing rockets into Israel from the North and South, end terror, etc.
___________________________
Until Muslims end terror against Jews everywhere, including Europe, Christians, Hindus, etc., what is to be done?

Uqba,

You fake Tunisian, not altogether boring, but not very smart blogger.

The number 3,000,000 is conservative. About ten years ago, we counted 1,000,000 from Iran, alone. As for the horror at Chabad House, it seems that Eboo somehow neglected to notice that three well loved Jews, a young family, beloved, in fact, in the Community, were singled out by the terrorists, in advance for torture. That is racism, Ukba. (Have some self-respect, btw., and sign in as Uqba.)

It skipped Eboo's mind, just as, about the same time, he made the intentionally divisive comment that the US got into WWII to save Jews (!!!!!), while it had racial problems at home.

That was a disgusting lie. The US not only didn't seek to "save Jews," it passed legislation limiting the number of Jewish refugees who could come here DURING THE SHOAH. It deliberately kept out of the papers everything that was known about the six million, and others.

Eboo, with his education, knows this. Every literate person alive knows it. It's been written about in article after article after article. Book after book after book.

you either allow the posting of comments or you are part of the problem, which is it, stealth jihad, dihmmi or just another ignorant follower of a fraud who did everything he did for greed, power and his very obvious child sexual perversions, 'the chilc molestation of Aisha!'
Post all comments that attempt to wake up the illiterate, blinded, mostly misguided and defrauded society of islam.

“First, there can be no justice until the three million Jews, exiled from the Middle East, of whom I am one, are given back their rights, property, etc.”

That’s a lie and you know it. There were no three millions at all; not even close. You have no proof to back your claims whatsoever. I find it shameful that you keep repeating the same lie. I believe we went through this before. The Jews who were forced out of SOME Arab countries, wrong as it was, did not happen in a political vacuum. It was retaliation to the eviction of the Palestinians form Palestine by the Zionists. Therefore, you only have to thank your fellow Jews for that fiasco.

However, it is a fact that because of the Zionist terror, since 1948 more 800, 000 Palestinians had to leave their lands and homes and live as refugees. This number has grown to include over 4.6 million displaced persons, about 3.7 million of whom are currently registered as refugees with the UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees). Of these, somewhat over a million live in camps run by the UNRWA Generally, refugees living in the camps live in conditions of abject poverty and overcrowding.

Since you have some demands concerning the Palestinians, knowing full well that they are the victims, I have some suggestions to those Zionist leaders you keep defending, who are in my opinion the real criminals in all this:

Israel must:
- stop killing innocent civilians.
- stop using phosphorous bombs on civilians.
- stop its collective punishment of Palestinians.
- leave the occupied territories and return to its pre 1967 borders.

And finally, those among the Zionist leaders who committed crimes against humanity must be brought to justice. They must be handed over to a world court to decide their fate.

I think that would be a good start to rid the world of resentment against the Jews in general and the Israelis in particular.

Then you say: “Gavriel, Rivkah, and their two-year-old son who watched his parents being tortured to death, who was carried out of Chabad House in Mumbai, covered in his parents' blood say, "hello." Hello.”

“Say hello”. That’s really sick and tasteless, you know. Is this how you remember and cherish the memory of the dead?

You seem to think that there are only Jewish victims in this conflict. And I know you think the Jews can do no wrong but facts on the ground say differently. In their recent vicious attacks on the defenseless Palestinians the Israelis killed at least 300 children among the more than 1300 dead. In addition there were more than 6500 injured, maimed and burned. Forty four of the victims were under five years old. What’s their fault in all this? What did they do to have their lives snuffed out and destroyed in this manner?

“Israel’s military has fired artillery shells packed with the incendiary agent white phosphorus over populated areas of Gaza and a crowded refugee camp” said Human Rights Watch.“White phosphorous can burn down houses and cause horrific burns when it touches the skin,” said Marc Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch. “Israel should not use it in Gaza’s densely populated areas.”....

“During recent decades the tendency has been to ban the use of phosphorus munitions against any target, civilian or military, because of the severity of the injuries that the substance causes.”

So why do the Israelis behave in this cruel manner that defies common decency.

Let us hope that the new US administration can free itself from the claws of AIPAC and Judeo-terrorist (zionist) blackmail to serve freedom and justice for all humans, and all religions and all people.

Fortunately, people of the world are seeing for themselves the brutal and murderous actions of the Judeo-terrorist regime in Israel. Killing scores of innocent civilians using the third most powerful military, against captive civilians in the prison of Gaza.

The Israeli Judeo-terrorists have a few brutality lessons to teach Al Queda and likes

Dear Farnaz2,

Here is what needs to happen so that judeo-terrorists will be happy:

Entire Muslim populations killed with white phosphurus and nuclear wepons.

All their property and lands confiscated and given to Judeo-terrorists

Entire Christian populations become slaves so that they work for their Judeo-terrorist bosses

Since Judeo-terrorists claim to be chosen by God, they can roam the earth and live on other people's hard work (i.e. Bernie Madoff)

Judeo-terrorist are always right, because they have been wronged in the past

The problems are endless, at least so far as Jews are concerned, and they go to verbal and physical assault.

First, there can be no justice until the three million Jews, exiled from the Middle East, of whom I am one, are given back their rights, property, etc.

Second: State-run newspapers that publish viscious antisemtic filth in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, etc. need to stop. Vile racist antisemitic garbabe needs to be removed from the curricula in all ME countries and among the Palestinians. I could easily start posting YouTube videos. The same is true of Pakistan.

Third: Europe, rather than "conduct studies" on antisemitism, post advice for how European Jews should protect themselves against Muslim aggression, must be responsible for protecting its citizens and arresting miscreants.

Fourth: Palestinians must stop firing rockets into Israel from the North and South, end terror, etc.
___________________________
Until Muslims end terror against Jews everywhere, including Europe, Christians, Hindus, etc., what is to be done?

Eboo,

Gavriel, Rivkah say, "hello." Their two-year-old son, carried out covered in his parents' blood say "hello." Hello.

Peaceful2008

Here is what needs to happen for Muslims, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, Christians, et al, to be happy.

Islamoterrorists like you need to vanish from the earth.

Peaceful2008 stated: The violence from the "muslim extremists" is already condemned by the "moderate muslim"

Could you provide a few links to major Muslim organizations - moderate or otherwise - that categorically reject Muslim extremist violence? Thank you.

Dear Farnaz2,

Here is what needs to happen so that judeo-terrorists will be happy:

Entire Muslim populations killed with white phosphurus and nuclear wepons.

All their property and lands confiscated and given to Judeo-terrorists

Entire Christian populations become slaves so that they work for their Judeo-terrorist bosses

Since Judeo-terrorists claim to be chosen by God, they can roam the earth and live on other people's hard work (i.e. Bernie Madoff)

Judeo-terrorist are always right, because they have been wronged in the past

HYJANKS:

Re: My previous post to you

Meant to write, "The Christians must also renounce the NT (sic) perspective that regardless of what offenses one has committed, he will be saved if he accepts the divinity of Christ."

What hath this view wrought? When will it be corrected as so many Christians have asked?

"Many things were lost on 9/11 - three thousand lives, a nation's innocence..."

Stop right there, btw.

The men who did this thing had no such power.

Maybe they thought they did.

Maybe some people claimed they had that power, for their own ends.

Kind of fitting, in that light, that Bush sat there reading a children's book while we were under 'attack.'

Cause it was all childish.

Horrible.

But childish.

Innocence, is something else.

HYJanks writes:

"Present-day Christians now disown the First Testament for fear being associated with all of the violence directed not only toward infidels, but also believers who don't toe the line precisely."

Present-day Christians inherited the theft of another people's book which they then misinterpreted, and from which they developed "typology," and the anticipation of the NT (sic). The real question is when present-day Christians plan to reform the NT (sic), voiding it of its racist, mythic, and fictional material, as Rosemary Reuther, Rev, Haynes, et al, most recently, twelve (12) Orthodox Christians have called for.

The day when "Present-day" Christians accept the Jewish principle that the deity has a covenant with All Peoples, that it is not up to any of us to judge, on that day, the Christians may be able to use more of their unprecedented power for good.
The Christians renounce the NT (sic) perspective that regardless of the good one does, one cannot be "saved" unless she believes in the divinity of Christ, must renounce the perspective that regardless of what one has done one Cannot be saved Unless one accepts the divinity of Christ.
Very nice.

Eboo,

Gavriel, Rivkah, and their two-year-old son who watched his parents being tortured to death, who was carried out of Chabad House in Mumbai, covered in his parents' blood say, "hello." Hello.

The problems are endless, at least so far as Jews are concerned, and they go to verbal and physical assault.

First, there can be no justice until the three million Jews, exiled from the Middle East, of whom I am one, are given back their rights, property, etc.

Second: State-run newspapers that publish viscious antisemtic filth in Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Yemen, etc. need to stop. Vile racist antisemitic garbabe needs to be removed from the curricula in all ME countries and among the Palestinians. I could easily start posting YouTube videos. The same is true of Pakistan.

Third: Europe, rather than "conduct studies" on antisemitism, post advice for how European Jews should protect themselves against Muslim aggression, must be responsible for protecting its citizens and arresting miscreants.

Fourth: Palestinians must stop firing rockets into Israel from the North and South, end terror, etc.

As you can see, a lot remains to be done.

Time and space prevents me from listing all of the tales of blood, gore and guts in the Koran, so if anyone is interested, buy yourself an English version and check it out--passages in this "peaceful, holy book" make Leviticus seem like it was written by Gandhi in comparison.
Here's the deal, folks. Religion--any religion--can be and usually is anything a believer wants it to be. Present-day Christians now disown the First Testament for fear being associated with all of the violence directed not only toward infidels, but also believers who don't toe the line precisely.
Same with the Koran. This book is also being cherry-picked to the point that not only is there no fruit left on the tree, but the bark has been peeled bare.
It's all hokum, ladies and gentlemen. Every attempt to make the Bible or the Koran into books that preach peace and harmony among men is contradicted directly by the contents.
Let's just throw both of these contradictory and hypocritical books into the dust bin of history and start to love and respect each other without being forced to by some fantastical, ethereal beings.

Eboo asserts:
13 American Muslim organizations issued a statement immediately after 9/11 that said: "Holding to the ideals of both our religion and our country (USA), we condemn all forms of terrorism, and confirm the need for perpetrators of any such acts of violence to be brought to justice."

The problem with this lies in the fact that the ideals of America and Islam are not identical or even compatible. The best proof of that is the fact that the entire 57 countries of the "Muslim world" have rejected the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which enshrines the values the West cherishes the most, such as freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, equality before the law and gender equality. Instead, ALL 57 Muslim countries have signed on to the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam which enshrines the basic values of Islam: that Islam is superior to all other religions and that all human rights must be in accordance with and subject to the Sharia. That, of course, includes subordination of all non-Muslims and of women.

The violence from the "muslim extremists" is already condemned by the "moderate muslim" The problem is that the violence from zionist extremist, in the form of "Israeli government" is not condemned by the US and allies.

Fortunately, the violence from Christian extremist, in the form of modern crusades as advocated by the Bush Regime, is now being condemned, albeit softly.

So we should hope to get a condemnation of war crimes by the Israeli military by the moderate Jews and Christians to go along with the muslim condemnation.

Many Muslim countries are far behind in their social and economic development (i.e. Saudi Arabia) unfortunately, these countries are supported by the West, because they serve our hegemonic goals. So on one hand we demand that all Muslim countries to upgrade to the level of Switzerland, and on the other hand, we support backward dictatorships that exploit Muslim nations! and then we blame moderate muslims for not speaking loud enough?

Mr. Patel,

This article seems to have been written in the ‘hopeful’ tense and unfortunately bears little resemblance to reality.

While it is true that violent Islam is only one portion of a very complex religion, the non-violent rest of Islam is not doing a very good job of telling its story. I believe you when you tell me that a dozen Muslim organizations spoke out against terrorism – unfortunately non-Muslims didn’t seem to be on the distribution list for those publications. Instead, we hear of fatwas against writers, cartoonists, and politicians. We hear the ‘mainstream’ Muslim clerics calling for the mass murder of Jews and Americans for no other reason than that they are Jews or Americans. We see acts like the Mumbai murders, the genocide of Darfur and active violence by Muslims in Western Countries. Holland had 60 ‘honor killings’ last year alone.

The bottom line is any solution to the perception of Islam being violent must come from within Islam. The voices of peaceful men and women (yes, women) must rise above the din of the Islamists before the rest of the world will take articles like this seriously.

But there have been numerous other Islamic terror plots and strikes against US interests after 9/11. Most "moderate" Muslims keep saying it is a "religion of peace".

Why don't these moderate Muslims speak up against intolerance/violence practised in 57 Islamic nations? Why does the religion need 57 nations?

It is difficult to sort out the Muslim-US relations outside the greater Muslim-Jewish relations. The latter has been strained for the past 60 years as a result of the Palestinian-Israeli crisis.

Just as the broader Muslim community is being represented (or hijacked) by the extremist elements that strive to project power, the Jewish people are represented (or hijacked) by the extremist Zionist elements that thrive on past injustices and the desire to project power in an existential-appearing battle.

With Jewish community in clear political and financial power advantage in the United States, we see that the image of Islam is cathegorically manipulated by the Zionists in the US. 9/11 provided the perfect background for this propaganda. Christian evangelicals, have made a political move to stand with the Zionists and the result is what we see in mainstream America's view of Islam.

Solution: well first we have to realize that people make religions, but religions don't make people. A "Muslim" is as varied as a "Jew" or "Christian"

Do we support Ted Haggert because he is a Christian leader. Do we respect Bernie Madoff because he is a Jewish-philantropst/Zionist?

Same variability applies to Muslims. We have good one, we have violent ones, we have peace-loving ones.

The first obstacles will be the propagande machines on all sides.