Vikram3,

Agree completely. The aggressive conversion practices of Islam, Evangelical Christians and the Catholics is one of the biggest problem for humanity. The world needs less of them than any other religion.

Very revealing:

Bob Roberts says, "Sure I wish they were Christian, and they wish I was Muslim -- but MOST of the time, we focus our energy on how we can improve the world together."

This is typical insincere Christian and Muslim phrasing. The real intentions are pretty obvious and are always supremacist - and therefore destructive.
Why does this supposedly good man with a good heart and two first names wish to convert those of inferior beliefs to his side?
Why not just do good and stop wishing they were Christian?
He claims to be focusing his energy "MOST OF TIME" on working together. What about the rest of the time? Is he working to undermine other religions and faiths?

I think its quite obvious that as long as Christians and Muslims have supremacist belief systems (Jesus is better than Mo, or Mo is better than Jesus) and have the demented desire to spread the faith and convert people, there will be conflict. This is not a man looking for mutual respect; he's just looking for an angle.

Eboo (Ebrahim) Patel and Bob (Robert) Roberts continue to fool no one but themselves.

Gimpi, there are two types of evolution. One is the evolution of the universe which I think is scientific and the other is Darwinian evolution which I find is a quackery.

In the first type of evolution, the science used are basic while in the second type which is Darwinian evolution, it involves a biological cell composed of DNAs which nobody yet truly understands. Anybody who claims he undertands how DNA actually works is the BIGGEST IDIOT OF ALL. Darwin never even heard of the word DNA and yet these idiot scientists treat him as some kind of a god in biology. He's not even a biologist.

Trial in engineering is used to test the material like making new materials or testing the purity of materials. Even before they try, there have already made supporting scientific equations. These are not made thru trial and error. Once they are established, it becomes standard. Biology is SO different. There are no actual standards coz as I've mentioned, the DNA is so complex and has the ability to MUTATE and NOT evolve.

Trial and error is NOT a standard in engineering. It is only used if it's outside the usual engineering field like if someone likes to discover something. You don't make bridges thru trial and error unlike making medicines.

Testing the materials, yes. But not trial and error.

Posted by Spidermean2:
" Iam an engineer and Iam very well exposed to pure science. If you know something about science, you would know that Biology is not a pure science but a combination of science and lots of speculations. That's the reason why we keep inventing medicines and keep on testing them thinking that it MIGHT work. TRIAL AND ERROR."

I'm afraid if you really were an engineer, you would know engineers test through trial and error, too. The process involves developing plans, building prototypes, testing the prototype, then revising and re-engineering.

Where I live in Seattle, the aircraft company Boeing recently made the mistake of skimping on this process, in order to outsource parts production. The result, the plane in question, the Dreamliner, is now two years behind schedule, and way overbudget, mostly because of this "cost-saving" decision. Needless to say, the outsourcing decision was not made by an engineer.

You seem to confuse the experimental process with "trial and error." And, I can assure you, biology, geology, astronomy and physics are all hard sciences, and they have all confirmed evolution. I know you won't be able to wrap your head around this, but it needed to be said.

CCNL wrote "Nothing is determined in advance"

You should give up or throw away this belief. Science is actually a kind of study which can somehow "predict the future". Put a ceratin amount of water in a container and heat it at a specific temperature. Given the exact data, I can predict at what exact time it will start to boil.

Man cannot predict the future of man coz there are many variables to consider. God made the universe and he knows all the variables and therefore can see the future.

The reason why man landed on the moon and "predict" that they can take off from there despite the change in environment is because those engineers know the variables. On the other hand, you have no idea what are those variables and therefore you would be SO clueless if given the same task.

gladerunner, Iam an engineer and Iam very well exposed to pure science. If you know something about science, you would know that Biology is not a pure science but a combination of science and lots of speculations. That's the reason why we keep inventing medicines and keep on testing them thinking that it MIGHT work. TRIAL AND ERROR.

Also, it's noticeable that you are new here. I always say that there is NO talking snake in the Bible. It's a metaphor or a figurative speech.

The difference between both of us is I know what that metaphor wants to convey. You don't. That "talking snake" is a proof of intelligence in the Bible. The DUMB can NEVER understand what it actually means.

Read comic books instead coz the Bible is ONLY for smart people. You are just kidding yourself if you claim you are capable of understanding it. It can't happen.

spidermean2"Show us the algorithm how it's made. Avoid using the words "millions of years", but use specific scientific processes that can be duplicated at the lab."

You don't believe scientific evidence, why should we bother providing it for you? You believe in mystical spirits and ghosts and angels and gods, none which can be seen, heard, demonstrated or proven. You believe in resurrection, eternal life, cosmic justice, talking snakes and donkeys.... None of which happens, anywhere outside your bible, and you call us idiots?

Spidermean2 aka Spiderman aka Canyon Shearer, Bible Thumper, Fortune Teller and Severely Brainwashed in that Old Time Religion,

A correct view of God's/evolution's interactions with the human race:

From Father Edward Schillebeeckx, the famous contemporary theologian in his book, Church: The Human Story of God,
Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover)

"Christians (humans) must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history" .

"Nothing is determined in advance: in nature there is chance and determinism; in the world of human
activity there is possibility of free choices.

Therefore the historical future is not known even to God; otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings.

For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

The reality of it all is that the "pew sitters" and "bowers" are coming to grips with the flaws in their religions and in ten years the religions of today will be unrecognizable or extinct as the "pretty and ugly wingie flying thingies" are finally buried in the piles of utter stupidity.

WmarkW wrote "Isn't that nice -- two opposing groups have decided to unite to further Creationism,.."

So what do you want us to believe? That brains in all animals (insects, fishes and birds) and humans can be made by a brainless earth? Why not try make a "simple" brain using your stupid "Natural Selection" philosophy.

Show us the algorithm how it's made. Avoid using the words "millions of years", but use specific scientific processes that can be duplicated at the lab.

You idiots are a danger to society. If you guys want to save humanity, confine and lock yourselves up in mental institutions.

Most people regardless of their race or religion get up in the morning, go to work, put the food on the table and provide shelter to their families.

In industrialized nations people interact with hundreds of other people during the course of their business or job every day. The subject of religion does not come up. And it should not come up. Whether one is a Christian, Hindu, Muslim or Jew is irrelevant in ordinary dealings.

But even in industrialized nations politics, religion, race, or ethnicity are often relevant as to who people vote for or do not vote for.

Human beings cling to their identities. Religious or sectarian identities are only two forms of identities. Linguistic, racial, regional, or caste are other forms of identities.

The form of identity that should be our primary concern often becomes secondary or forgotten. That is our HUMAN IDENTITY.

Isn't that nice -- two opposing groups have decided to unite to further Creationism, homophobia and militarism. Scientists have been forming worldwide networks for over century, and are actually doing things like reducing infant mortality.

It is all about the foundations of both "faiths". These foundations are so severely flawed and full of errors that both need to be fully revamped. Once this has been done, there will be very little left except some version of the Commandments. And the world will be a better and safer place to live.

God save humanity from evangelicals and Islamofascists.