Well, finally an article that starts to explain how it is that the rise of Islam is something that can not be ignored as it has been for much longer. I keep a close eye on the rise of Islam because I have written a religious document that asserts and then proves that the prophecies of the two witnesses deal with the rise of the anti-Christ. The book is posted at thegoodguise at wordpress com. As my research into the prophecies of the two witnesses solidified it became clear that it will be from the religion of Islam that the anti-Christ will come forth from. The book is a real challenge, I must admit, for most of you, but then, isn't that really the same story for religion in general? Well, go read the book, understand the incredible chain of events that have unfolded before our very eyes, and prepare as only you can decide how to move forward after understanding what is really happening right now all around us. Good luck and God bless you! Jacob

Wonderful article. Nothing pleased me more than watching the floor get wiped with that Robert Spencer. Reza Aslan embodies the modern American Muslim, articulate, liberal and can push these psychopaths back. The irony is this supposed Zionist, Spencer, is caught consorting with Neo Nazis who wear Swastikas. Even the Jewish community finds him abohorrent. As for the rest of the comments, well they embody ignorance at its best.

“[Eboo] was named by Islamica Magazine as one of ten young Muslim visionaries shaping Islam in America; was chosen by Harvard’s Kennedy School Review as one of five future policy leaders to watch.”

That pretty much explains your bias against those who fight for freedom and equality. I apologize for implying you were a journalist.

“Finally, people like Robert Spencer who seek to intentionally delegitimize moderates are advancing a not-too-subtle form of racism, and their ideas will join anti-Semitism and anti-Catholicism in the dustbin of history.”

There are so many ‘highlights’ in your article, um, where to start? Most have been previously covered, but this one, I take serious issue.

You call Robert Spencer a “not-too-subtle” racist. For a “journalist” to say that, angers me. I’ve read much of his thoroughly documented work. Never once have I encountered racism and I challenge you to post one thing he has written or said that is racist. Post it Mr. Patel, here and now. Post it!

No?

You Sir, are a liar.

Some excellent comments.

Americans have rightly become wary of muslims. When it comes to the crunch, muslim will always side with a fellow muslim, however moderate they might be.

I wish to recall an instance from Mahatma Gandhi's life. During the Indian independence movement, a certain Maulana Mohammad Ali became a close confidant of Gandhi, so much so that his (Maulana's) detractors accused him of following Gandhi in his religious principle too (committing the offence of shirk). He could have been excommunicated and perhaps killed.

In order to prove that he was a true, full blooded muslim, this is what the moulana wrote in self-defence - "...nevertheless, I regard even the creed of a fallen and degraded Mussalman as entitled to a higher place than Gandhi."

Quoted by Rajmohan Gandhi, in Gandhi: the Man, his People, and the Empire, Page 267. See http://www.amazon.com/Gandhi-People-Empire-Lilienthal-Studies/dp/0520255704.

Eboo Patel is either the biggest, fattest liar on the planet or the stupidest person.

As horrible as 911 was, it is tiny in comparison to the horrors that non-Muslims have experienced at the hands of the "tiny minority" of Muslims outside of America.

The religious text, tradition and popular practice of Islam all lead to violent subversion of non-Islamic laws and ultimate domination by Muslims.

Islamic is the nightmare of humanity. The crystallization of 100% evil.

And just because some Muslims are not murdering others does not absolve Islam. Not all Soviets were Stalin and not all Germans in the 40s were Hitler.

Except Islam makes Nazism and Communism look benign and also honest.

"His message: Islam requires me to dominate you."

Well, thank Myuu we know that to be false.

After all, Islam doesn't dominate atheists, secularists, or members of any religious minority faith in places like Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, Jordan, the UAE, Kuwait, and especially not in Saudi Arabia. At all.

Well, okay, maybe that's not so.

But there are certainly no legal penalties for apostacy in places like Egypt, Algeria, Morocco, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Malaysia, Indonesia, Sudan, Jordan, the UAE, Kuwait, and especially not in Saudi Arabia. At all.

Well, okay, maybe that's not so either.

...sorry - what was your point again, Mr. Patel?

GeoffP

jparrott1908

You wrote, "Rampant anti-Muslim hate and prejudice in the comments section... again. No surprise here."

If you actually read what is written, it seems as if it is not "anti-Muslim" but "anti-Islam".

This could very well be because the god of islam is satan and that Islam is all about world domination with everyone under subjugation of sharia law, have you ever thought about that?

By the way when Jesus, God-Incarnate, was asked by His Apostles to teach them how to pray, He taught them "Our Father..." and whether or not you know the rest of it, the first two words say it all, we, all of humanity, are God's children, no matter what: beliefs, religion, race, nationality, whatever, and this includes God-Incarnate as our Brother.

Do we treat each other as we should at all times?

I would say that none of us do.

Do we try to?

Seems as if we are more interested in trying to run other people's lives than living our own.

As I have said many times, the True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof, no one will be able to hide behind any religion or anything else for that matter.

It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Parrot says: "Rampant anti-Muslim hate and prejudice in the comments section... again. No surprise here."

Not even a pretense at addressing even a single issue of all those that have been raised here. Why, Mr. Parrot?

Is anyone surprised? I don't think so.

Rampant anti-Muslim hate and prejudice in the comments section... again. No surprise here.

Eboo:

Non muslims not allowed in Mecca Traffic sign:
http://www.danielpipes.org/pics/new/large/470.jpg

Why are your fellow non-muslim citizens of America not allowed in Mecca? Does that have anything to do with Koran 9:23 declaring them Najjasun (filthy; and shia conside that as filthy as urine and feces) and Allah telling the muslims to forbid the Kafirs from getting close to the mosque in mecca? Hajj is coming and you will sing praises for it. Will you talk about how the muslims treat the najis kafirs around the world?
Do you know who is a hypocrite?

"Why don't American Muslims talk about intolernce and hatred within Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? Is not Arabia an exact replica of what Mohamed wanted?"

Why limit to just those two countries? Why not Malaysia, Indonesia, Yemen, Niger, Sudan, Burnei, Gambia, Iran, Bangladesh, etc. etc. Pick any of the OIC countries. The hatred is built into the DNA of islam because it is in the Koran. The American Muslims should talk about what have they done to reduce the hatred for the Kafirs across the muslim world. Has Eboo ever done anything ANYTHING to reduce the hatred for the non-muslim in any muslim country? Has he ever written anything about the hatred for the Non-muslim in Islam? NO! Why not? Because he is a "moderate" and his job is to tell the american Kafirs to not be Islamophobic.

Whereever Muslims are in majority, there is intolerance, hatred and violence. Non-Muslims are decimated and insulted by having to live under "Islamic republic". Why don't American Muslims talk about intolernce and hatred within Saudi Arabia and Pakistan? Is not Arabia an exact replica of what Mohamed wanted?

Montedero explains:

“A Moslem moderate openly rejects Sharia law, openly rejects the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam, openly rejects those passages in the Koran and the sayings of Muhammad which call for hatred, violence and war against non-Moslems.”

Such a person would not be regarded as “moderate” by anyone. He is defined as an apostate by Muslims and ex-Muslim by himself/ herself. A moderate Muslim is a label that some in the West give to some of their Muslim acquaintances who either do not know the elementary elements of their Muslim faith or are practicing taqqiya.

I am so SICK of fundamentalist Christians, like Franklin Graham representing Christians! Where are the PROGRESSIVE Christian voices, like Brian McLaren or Jim Wallis?

Eboo and his friend Daisy Khan and Imam Feisal Rauf are NOT moderates! They are wolves in sheep's clothing. A Moslem moderate openly rejects Sharia law, openly rejects the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam, openly rejects those passages in the Koran and the sayings of Muhammad which call for hatred, violence and war against non-Moslems. The so-called moderates do NOT do that. There are true moderate Moslems, but they are very rare. We need to remember that the jihad which Islam has declared on non-Moslems is to be carried out by any means possible -- both violent and non-violent. Eboo & Co. are among the non-violent jihadists. Of course Islam is determined to take over the world. The Koran says so. Muhammad said so. -- Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and whoever says, " None has the right to be worshipped but Allah , his life and property will be saved by me." (otherwise it will not).
The Koran says: -- Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme. (8:40)
-- Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme. (2:193)
-- The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. (4:76)
-- We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. (3:151)
-- I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. (8:12)
Yusuf Qaradawi, the most respected and influential Islamic religious authority in the world today, says that Islam came to be followed, not to follow; to dominate, not to be dominated.

Were there attempts to de-legitimize moderate Muslims during the debate? What happens to moderation when Muslims are in the majority?

Egypt is reckoned to be a moderate Muslim country. Two weeks ago the supreme Islamic authority, the Al-Azhar Research Council made clear the subservient position of Christians in that country. It stated, "the Council stresses the fact that Egypt is an "Islamic State" according to the text of its Constitution, which represents the social contract between its people. "From this stems the rights of citizenship, as taught to us by the Messenger of Allah in his pact with the Christians of Najran, in which he decided that they were to enjoy rights and duties as the Muslims. However, these rights are conditional to respect for the Islamic Identity and the citizenship rights as set by the Constitution."

The Christians of Najran, Medina, refused conversion to Islam in 631 A.D. and offered Mohamad, to maintain their faith, to accept the dominance of Muslims and pay an annual tribute (the jizya), he accepted and the pact was sealed between them.

"Magdy Khalil, head of the Middle East Freedom Forum, issued a press release on September 27, saying the Al-Azhar's "Statement to the Nation" brings us back to the era of Dhimmitude. He thinks this statement, which is addressed to the Islamic nation and Muslims in Egypt and abroad, undermines completely the concept of modern citizenship, replacing it with their perception of an alternative Islamic citizenship, which corresponds to that promoted by various groups of political Islam. "Citizenship in the traditions of the Islamic Research Council is conditional to non-Muslims in the Egyptian State by their acceptance of the Islamic State, respecting the Islamic identity and accepting the rule of Sharia," said Khalil, "meaning that the Council has reproduced the unfortunate Dhimmi status as a condition for the Copt to being a citizens in his own country."

He believes the "Statement to the Nation" does not strengthens national unity in Egypt but rather contributes to the increased agitation of the Islamized people, increases the feeling of religious superiority towards the Coptic minority and contributes to the destruction of what remains of the pillars of the civil state." (Pakistan Christian Post)

This is moderation when Islam is in the majority.

Abrahamhab1 says: "This is what Muslims say when they are impotent. As soon as they feel they could forcibly subjugate and dominate and humiliate the “other” their attitude makes a 180 degree turn. This Sharia (Muslim Law) sanctioned deception has a name called taqqiya."

Secular says: "Do you also acknowledge that the countries where Islamic population is significant minority but not a majority there are issues due to the demands of the Muslims,"

The issue really is not whether the "moderate" muslim is lying or not. Assume that he is not, but he as an individual has no control over how other muslims feel about Sharia. As soon as the muslims become a significant minority as they have in France or in UK, then the demands of the more agressive members of the Ummah like anjem chaudry begin, and the moderates are nowhere in sight. In UK the only ones who are opposing Chaudry are the apostates of Islam or people like the Quilliam foundation who the moderates call puppets or apostates. At that moment what was the benefit of accepting the entirely useless nothing to worry about and "Let the rest of us get on with building a civilization based on equal dignity and mutual loyalty". It is then the significant minority starts holding the civic peace of the Kafir society hostage. Do as we say or we will kill and burn. The law and order system that is designed to handle individual and not thousands at a time becomes paralysed. Just look at the ritual burning and looting in the Paris Suburbs by the "youths", or the regular destruction around muslim ghettos in sweden, or the demand for Sharia laws in various and many aspects of daily life in UK. Halal meat for everyone, no pig toys, niqab for school girls, separate swimming pools that exclude non-muslims, and pretty soon the Kafirs finds themselves in Sharia land. Look at what is happening in Europe to understand what Eboo is really offering and when that situation materialises, people like Eboo are usually nowhere to be seen but more and more people like Anjem Chaudry have to be dealt with.

Solution: Defang the ideology of Koran. Expose it till every Kafir knows about it; so he or she fully understands what Islam means for them.

Patel says:
“Let the rest of us get on with building a civilization based on equal dignity and mutual loyalty.”

This is what Muslims say when they are impotent. As soon as they feel they could forcibly subjugate and dominate and humiliate the “other” their attitude makes a 180 degree turn. This Sharia (Muslim Law) sanctioned deception has a name called taqqiya.
The Muslims of the world consider themselves as belonging to a nation with a constitution, derived mostly from the Quran and the hadith, the alleged sayings and actions of their prophet. It commands the killing or converting the pagans. As for Christians and Jews it first works on impoverishing them by levying exorbitant head tax on them called Jizyah and then devise creative ways to humiliate, subjugate and dominate them. This is derived from Muslim jurisprudence and codified in Omar Pact, which is a sort of a manual for the treatment of conquered Christian and Jews.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html

Dzinmour says:" and the list goes on and on."

From todays news:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hDoqyypqn3EQ4zupaGnPTDEoSArA?docId=CNG.9169ad9303e8b3a2ca9470b5e05e2e20.141

Pakistani woman killed in Italy over arranged marriage

(AFP) – 7 hours ago

ROME — A Pakistani woman has died in Italy after her husband beat her with a brick for opposing the arranged marriage of her daughter, triggering a wave of outrage among Italian politicians on Monday.

The daughter, 20-year-old Nosheen Butt, was hospitalised with a cranial traumatism and a broken arm after her 19-year-old brother beat her with a stick in the courtyard of their building in Novi, near the northern city of Modena.
According to Modena prosecutors' initial findings, the father Ahmad Khan Butt, a 53-year-old construction worker, threw his wife to the ground and beat her with a brick while the brother Umair attacked his sister.

"The victim did not want her daughter to have an unhappy relationship like the one that had been forced on her," said deputy Modena prosecutor Lucia Musti, who is in charge of the investigation. ....

Politician Isabella Bertolini in Italy's main conservative party said that the deceased woman, Beghm Shnez, was a "martyr for freedom, a victim of obscurantism and Islamic fundamentalism".

She said that the father had been in Italy less that 10 years and was the owner of the local mosque.
*******************

It is important to keep reminding ourselves as often as necessary that Muslims are NOT the problem. It is the supremacist ideology of Islam. It is that ideology that needs to be exposed for the hateful evil it is.

The dilemma is valid and all the facts at hand make it so.
Though difficult to research, due to heavy handed censorship, there are many videos and news stories of Muslims killing people under Islamic ideologies: American and allied Soldiers being brutally executed after surrendering show that Muslims do not fight under the Geneva convention. Teenage boys are hung for being born gay. Intellects are executed for speaking their minds. Athletes are executed for wearing shorts. Teenage girls are stoned to death because they do not desire an arranged marriage to some creep. Non-conformist Africans in Islamic areas are burned for being witches. Artists are murdured in the street for artist expression of an Islamic figure. ... and the list goes on and on.

To the average American, like me, these examples of Islam only suggest that the religion & politics of that ideology are decidedly incompatible with a civilized world. This is not a conclusion I want to have, but one that is had by forced reason.... based on what we see.

If every American and every leader knows these things, how can anyone be surprised that there is reason to fear Islam? And from personal experience, I worry for the "moderate" Muslims in our country.

I had a Muslim housemate five years ago who is very educated and a super nice person. He speaks very well of his home country and his religion. He enjoys humor, recreation and meaningful conversation. I consider him a friend for life.

But he took me shopping to a Muslim store. There I had to be on my best behavior to NOT act or say anything too American. This is a problem because it shows there are Islamic forces in our own country who have no intention of assimilating. My Muslim friend is stuck between two worlds, I fear. He is surrounded by his American companions at work and tied to his Muslim family back home and a growing Muslim community setting up shop here. He cannot speak as freely with them as he would with me ... and I am hushed and abandoned from participating when his Muslim friends visit. They would only speak Urdu and seem to be critical as if watchdogs of the Islamic way of life. During Ramadan, he was passed out on the floor from starvation. I know he is a great person, worthy of respect ... and I will forever respect him for maintaining his faith in earnest. I suspect his heart is rooted with Islam ... if ever he had to make a choice, one or the other, .... just as my heart is rooted in Catholicism.

As individuals, we have no interest in destruction or harming anyone or anything. This speaks well for the possibility that young minds bring enlightenment to established ideologies. With continued interaction and education and opportunity, all people can live in peace and work together to build a better tomorrow.

Perhaps its the old men that are the problem ... on all sides. Old men, comfortable in their ignorance - brainwash the young to fight for their stupid ideas.

In all this examination of people and psychology, when do not Muslims get answers to our questions about the text of the Koran that is often quoted by critics. The only answer I have heard is that the Bible has scary passages too.

That is hardly a defense. Being a member of a religion that is not of the Book, it is small comfort to me that both the Koran and Old Testament have vicious verses. The "final prophet" tenet of Islam puts to lie any modification of the scary passages of the Koran.

When do we get an honest debate about the Koran?

BIGOT -"one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance."

In Saudi Arabia non Muslims are not allowed to enter Mecca, and Jews are not allowed in the country at all.

Author Salmon Rushdie was sentenced to death for criticizing Islam.

The member states of the OIC endorse the Cario Declaration of Human Rights which do not acknowledge freedom of religion, nor equality among the sexes.

The month of February in the year 2006 was a Muslim saturnalia of violence because of a cartoon.

One could go on like this for some time.

The term "bigot" is a much more apt description of Muslims.

How do you build a fear bomb? Here's how:
By blowing people up and cutting off their heads and attacking them anywhere and anytime simply because they said something that you didn't like. Or, to slightly modify Eboo's list:

1) A high-profile event like 9/11 that is perpetrated in the name of a specific belief system.
2) People like Amjad Choudry who claim to represent that religion and community who look scary and say scary things and whose position is justified by him through directly referenceing the so-called holy book of his belief system
3) People who read about Islamic history and its treatment of non-Muslims and referencing actual events and statements by people like Amjad Choudry who accurately report on what is said and done in the name of his belief system.
4) A deliberate campaign to wake people up to what is really going on in the world around them and not taking at face value the statements of so-called moderate voices and instead objectively analyze the actions of the founder of that belief system, its holy book, its bloody and conquering history and the modern manifestations of its ideology and worldview.

I am afraid of Islam because I read the Quran, read the biography of their prophet, read numerous hadith, read a great deal of history, and also read the newspapers.

THERE YOU GO AGAIN, EBOO

You wrote, "Let all the people who want to spread fear - whether they pray in Arabic or Hebrew or English or not at all - have their coffee and their intolerance with each other."

That's a nice thought but a complete cop out. Islamic terrorism is a very real problem for America, Europe, Russia, India and almost the entire world. So, pretending like it is just people who want to spread fear on "all sides" is disingenuous. It is just dishonest rhetoric and word play.

There is a very real problem in Islam of claiming the superiority of Allah and his followers and the inferiority of non-muslims.

Address this issue of supremacism in Islam. Don't just label Muslims who believe this and act on this as "they". "They" is a part of the Islamic community that you often refer to as "we" when convenient and "they" when its inconvenient.

Do you, Eboo Patel, believe that your god Allah is the one and only path?
Answer the question.
Answer it honestly.
We all, "true moderates", have our concerns about you, Daisy Khan, Imam Rauf, etc. when it comes to this dangerous and destructive supremacist belief system. It is not only offensive to other religions, but leads to conflict and violence.

I suspect that it was this supremacist belief that allowed Imam Rauf to make such a blatant misjudgment that offended so many Americans and New Yorkers. (Americans are not that intolerant overall).

Y'all really thought that building a Grand Mosque with Saudi money would not hurt the feelings of victim's families and offend others?
Or did you not care?

The relations between Muslims and Americans are worse now. How do you not anticipate that?

DasoKora:

Waging war against Allah was in the news recently:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1246749/Iran-executes-men-arrested-presidential-election-unrest-waging-war-God.html#ixzz0dwlkro4GTwo anti-government activists were executed in Iran today.

In a crackdown on opposition supporters, officials said the two were hanged after being found guilty of waging war against God, trying to overthrow the Islamic establishment and being members of armed groups.
Five others involved in protests over June's presidential election were sentenced to die.

Arash Rahmanipour, aged just 19, and Mohammad Reza Ali Zamani were hung for waging war against Allah. They had not killed anyone, even accidentally, they had not stolen anything, they had not robbed anyone. They had merely protested against the Islamic state. Under Sharia, it is true that trying to overthrow an Islamic state is Waging War Against Allah.
What do you think? Were they innocent or were they guilty as Iran's Islamic Sharia found them?

Eboo Patel

You wrote, "Choudry wore a regulation size beard, looked menacingly at the television camera and declared that the flag of Islam will one day fly over the White House."

Is this or is this not just what many that follow the Koran want but won't say?

At least he is upfront about it.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Last Sunday's Christiane Amanpour's 'This Week' debate on Islam was very interesting athough it was tense at times and some of the panelists were enraged and intolerant during the course of the deabte. So that we can have a civil debate on controversial issues such as 'Islam and the rest of us', I have posted an alternative idea on my website last August and the title is 'Constructing Shrines of all Faiths at Ground Zero'. Please visit www.africanidea.org and scroll down the screen or simply click on the following link: www.africanidea.org/constructing_shrine.html
Ghelawdewos Araia, Ph.D.

Dasokora says: "I have been studying Islam for 10 year to find a single verse from Qurran that legalize the killing of innocent people but I did not".

In "Innocent" lies the rub. Innocent by Islamic Sharia or by some other law?

What is meant by an "innocent people"? Is a kafir who speaks, just speaks, against Islam and Muhammad an innocent? Is a muslim who rejects Islam and Mohammad and speaks, just speaks, against Islam an innocent? Is a missionary who preaches Christianity to the muslims in muslim lands an innocent? Is a buddhist missionary who preaches buddism to the muslims in muslim lands an innocent? Should these people be killed according to Sharia or not?

Dasokora says: "God said to our prohphet Mohammad (PBUH)If one kill a single innocnet person as if he killed all people on earth"
Well that is one of the verses you have been looking for the last 10 years and could not find it. Let me help you.
The verse is 5.32 but it comes with verse 5.33
005.032
YUSUFALI: On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.
005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

What is meant by "who wage war against Allah and His Messenger"? Is speaking against Islam waging war? Is preaching another religion other than Islam waging war? Do you know what Islam's great Imams have said about that?

What do you think Allah means when he says "waging war against Allah and his Messenger"? How does one wage war against "Allah"? Think about it and I really would like to read your answer.

Eboo Patel and Reza Aslan work for Feisal Abdul Rauf as "Muslim Leaders of Tomorrow".

They are paid lairs, and should be considered as such.

Eboo Patel

You asked, "How is it that fear of Muslims in America is actually higher nine years post 9/11?"

It may not be that the "fear of Muslims" is higher but that some have taken a closer look at Islam and don't care for what they see.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

dasokora, below is a sample of the bad verses you could not find. If you think these verses are made up by Islamophobes, please let everyone on this thread know the real contents of these verses. If these are not made up, but are really in the Koran, will you just repudiate them, just these verses only?

Qur’an 33.27 And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.

Qur’an 21:44 Do they see Us advancing, gradually reducing the land (in their control), curtailing its borders on all sides? It is they who will be overcome.

Qur’an 9:123 “murder them and treat them harshly”
Qur’an 3.28 Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.
NOTE: By ‘guarding carefully’, a Muslim should deceive the infidel. Acting as a friend is fine as long as it is to benefit the Muslim and protect Islam.

Qur’an 3:56 “As for those disbelieving infidels, I will punish them with a terrible agony in this world and the next. They have no one to help or save them.”

Qur’an 4.89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Mr. Eboo Patel, what you & Reza Aslan are trying to do (taking it on the face value) is admirable, but not very courageous. I have no doubt that you and Reza Aslan mean well. But when you ignore the voices of Taslima Nasreen, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie, then it is futile. Do you acknowledge that the societal issues that are rampant in the OIC countries are core of the problem? Do you also acknowledge that the countries where Islamic population is significant minority but not a majority there are issues due to the demands of the Muslims, be it be Philippines, or India, or Nigeria? We would be far more convinced when your movement goes to say Egypt, or Malaysia and promote the change of laws in those countries to be more tolerant of non-muslims. I actually dare sat=y the problems that need immediate attention are not in Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan, but in places like Malaysia, and Indonesia where there are far larger populations of non-muslims who need redress and may be less of an uphill battle. You don't even have to repudiate any of the vile Koranic passages.

I would onlt say that all what is happeneing in this world today has nothing to do with Islam.I have been studying Islam for 10 year to find a single verse from Qurran that legalize the killing of innocent people but I did not. Islam never attack only for self defence. God said to our prohphet Mohammad (PBUH)If one kill a single innocnet person as if he killed all people on earth. How can God create people and then tell other creators to kill them???? Then our God must be God of contradictions!!! The idea is that Arabs because the Quraan is revealed in their language tried to exploit it and play with words to serve Arab causes. And Muslim who know little about the content of Islam sympathize with them. The sad fact is that the Islamists in their offences, always use those who know nothing what is in Quraan but only what is told by their spritual leaders. Sudanese Hassan Turabi killed thousand of young people in South Sudan Sudan to marry them beautiful women in heaven( Hoor) may be Nymphs on earth. The Immam when he was kicked out of power said that those died in South Sudan with name of Jihad were just dead animals.
I beleive that Islam which is synonomous to word peace would not be a sources of horror. All that happens today has nothing to do with real Islam. God said if he had so willed he would have created all humans as one nation or all muslims. Or he would have created all people Arabs or Indians instead of appointing human on earth to do his work!!!
Its very sad that anyone who failed to achieve his personal goals in this life, come to use region clothes to climp the lader. Ben Laden because he failed to rule Saudia Arabia and become famous; became to express his anger on the west with the name of Islam. I don't care what others would say about my opinion but this is the result I came out through my studies to Quraan. to be very obvious I was studying it to know if this was written by Arabs or its a real word of God because of the contradicting behavors of some Muslims. I came to conclusion that its in fact a wrod of God,Quraan is a detail of what it has been revealed before. However; those who kill innocent people use only the examples attributed Prophet Mohamed (PBUH)which mostly are not supported by verses in Qurraan.For those who do not know Islam there are examples attributted to Prophet Muhammad, some are categorized as strong and some as weak. But I have never found a verse in Qurraan categorized as weak or strong verse.

I would onlt say that all what is happeneing in this world today has nothing to do with Islam.I have been studying Islam for 10 year to find a single verse from Qurran that legalize the killing of innocent people but I did not. Islam never attack only for self defence. God said to our prohphet Mohammad (PBUH)If one kill a single innocnet person as if he killed all people on earth. How can God create people and then tell other creators to kill them???? Then our God must be God of contradictions!!! The idea is that Arabs because the Quraan is revealed in their language tried to exploit it and play with words to serve Arab causes. And Muslim who know little about the content of Islam sympathize with them. The sad fact is that the Islamists in their offences, always use those who know nothing what is in Quraan but only what is told by their spritual leaders. Sudanese Hassan Turabi killed thousand of young people in South Sudan Sudan to marry them beautiful women in heaven( Hoor) may be Nymphs on earth. The Immam when he was kicked out of power said that those died in South Sudan with name of Jihad were just dead animals.
I beleive that Islam which is synonomous to word peace would not be a sources of horror. All that happens today has nothing to do with real Islam. God said if he had so willed he would have created all humans as one nation or all muslims. Or he would have created all people Arabs or Indians instead of appointing human on earth to do his work!!!
Its very sad that anyone who failed to achieve his personal goals in this life, come to use region clothes to climp the lader. Ben Laden because he failed to rule Saudia Arabia and become famous; became to express his anger on the west with the name of Islam. I don't care what others would say about my opinion but this is the result I came out through my studies to Quraan. to be very obvious I was studying it to know if this was written by Arabs or its a real word of God because of the contradicting behavors of some Muslims. I came to conclusion that its in fact a wrod of God,Quraan is a detail of what it has been revealed before. However; those who kill innocent people use only the examples attributed Prophet Mohamed (PBUH)which mostly are not supported by verses in Qurraan.For those who do not know Islam there are examples attributted to Prophet Muhammad, some are categorized as strong and some as weak. But I have never found a verse in Qurraan categorized as weak or strong verse.

Anjum Chaudhry is just the kind of muslim Franklin Graham and Robert Spencer would love. I really hate that idiot. Its beyond me why Britain tolerates this hatemonger. People are in Guantanamo for a lot less than he gets away with. I watched that program too yesterday and was really moved by the words of Donna Marsh. They tried to bring all kinds of perspectives and it was really lively debate. But with a brilliant debater and scholar like Reza Aslan, you kinda knew which side will win the debate. I just loved the he shut up that bigot, Robert Spencer. Google "This week Christiane Amanpour" if you want o see it~!

Sajanas says: "I do feel bad for the normal liberal Muslims in America, because we do judge their whole religion on the basis of what happens in other countries."

It is by looking at the other countries, and especially the consistency of the discrimination and hatred against the non-muslims that we come face to face with how the muslims have implemented islam in its various forms, from the Wahabi Saudi Arabia, to the Shia Iran, to the sufi driven Pakistan, or the very recent islamized Malaysia and Indonesia. And in all the implementation the common thread is the absolute hatred for the non-muslim. Why? It is because that hatred is part and parcel of the Koran. Until the liberal muslims living among the Kafirs confront that honestly and decide whether they want to keep those verses or not, and whether they want to keep all the hadiaths that tell the muslims to hate the non-muslims they should not be considered moderates but part of the front for "stealth jihad".

Example: Muslims make a big deal about Charity and how giving to charity is one of the five pillars of Islam. They are talking about Zakat. Now by Islamic Sharia, this Zakat cannot be spent on a non-muslim (except if the money is to be used as an inducement for him or her to convert)! Imagine that! No charity for a non-muslim. Why? Think about it. What does that mean? See how that issue played out just recently in the great flood in Pakistan last month.

I do feel bad for the normal liberal Muslims in America, because we do judge their whole religion on the basis of what happens in other countries. However, while Mr Patel gives a list of things that inspire fear in Islam, he leaves out a lot of passages in the Koran and Sharia that are pretty awful, like that apostates deserve death, that people should be forcibly converted, Mohammad marrying a 6 year old, and consummating his marriage on her 9th year. This in and of itself is not a big problem, the Bible and other scriptures from other religions are equally vile in parts, but the problem is that we can easily travel to other countries and see these rule put into practice, and see Islam used to support even more horrible practices (like female genital mutilation). And these countries have the money and resources to send their imams abroad to teach, and to make schools to teach others. Fear of Islam isn't going to go away without moderates in this country helping to promote liberal policies in other Muslim countries, and I don't think its going to be easy, because *when the Koran literally says these things* and you believe that the Koran is the literal word of God, it takes a lot of work to make people see the other side of the argument.

Eboo Patel and Reza Aslan and other moderates will not and do not address the central problem that any reasonably informed person does and should have with Islam.

In the entire history of Islam and at present right across the OIC countries, the non-muslims among the muslims are treated as second class humans. Why? Look at the laws of many muslim countries and see how the non-muslims are treated. These laws have been in place among the muslims for centuries. They are part of Islamic Sharia. Why so much hatred for the non-muslim? Why has this hatred been institutionalized in the laws of the muslim countries?

The simple fact is that this hatred reflected in the laws of the muslim countries comes from the core beliefs of Islam. The hatred is deeply rooted in the Koran, in the hadith, and in the history of Islam. Trying to pretend that it is not so will not sell anymore. Reza Aslan can sit in USA under the protection of Kafir laws, under the guarantee of the protection of free speech and freedom of religion and try to talk about Islam as a huge religion, but he cannot point to a single branch of this huge religion that ever consistently tried to treat the non-muslims as even fully human. Not sufism, not ismailism, not ahmediyyas, let alone the more traditional brances of Islam.

Shouting Islamophobia did not work and it is becoming clear to the yellers that people are not buying into crying Islamophobia. Now the attempt is an attempt to de legitimize people like Robert Spencer. Spencer is not "intentionally delegitimizing moderates or advancing a not-too-subtle form of racism". Spencer points out legitimate moderates from those who pretend to be one but who refuse to give up the core supremacist hatred for the non-muslims imbedded in Islam.

Eboo markets himself as a moderate, but he is incapable of ever stating that there is hatred for the non-muslim rooted in the core of Islam. It is legitimate for the non-muslims to ask whether the muslims intend to deal with that hatred for the non-muslim in an honest and forth right manner, and if the muslims really intend to live peacefully as equals in this small and globalized village. Eboo deal with the real issues honestly and people you are attempting to demonize will automatically become irrelevant.