Secular

I have a good friend from Turkey who informs me that life for a non-believer in Turkey is not very good, and the only viable solution is immigration to the West.

Todays News:

Just days after a brutal attack in a Catholic Church in Baghdad that killed more than 50 people, an Al Qaeda group in Iraq has declared all Christians “legitimate targets,” calling for them to be killed.

A group calling itself the Islamic State of Iraq, or ISI, has labeled all Christians “idolators” in an Internet statement, which it also used to dub the Vatican a “hallucinating tyrant.”

ISI is calling for the release of two Egyptian women, wives of Coptic priests, who the group claims are being held against their will after converting to Islam.

Read more: http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/11/03/is-al-qaeda-threat-to-christians-serious/?test=faces#ixzz14EVku3uh
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That is real.
And then one has words from Jihadist, a Malaya Muslim, who was braggin about the liberal Muslims of Malaysia and when shown the hateful treatment of the Kafirs cannot bring herself to even comment.

Then we have Eboo and his shameless lying. Why don't you go Iraq Eboo and hold your Interfaith Dialog with the Islamic State of Iraq? Show kids like Jordan how it is really done. The misery and pain of a helpless minority is to be ignored. It always has. Whether it is in Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iran, Saudi Arabia, or any of the OIC ountries. That is the real face of Islam over its 1440 years of history.

Please don't turn your eyes away from the injustice that the kafirs in the Islamic world are forced to live under. Think about it. Why is it that the American Muslims find it so difficult to condemn it, to organize against it, and to act against it?

Hajj is around the corner. See if Eboo will dare to write a single word against the hateful racist nature of that Islamic ritual.

Good job. Knowledge and human contact will ultimately defeat the hate-mongers.

Well done Zach Jordan - doing something positive and constructive instead of whining and griping about the "other/s".
Good effort to get them "play" together as a start to get along together.

And well done too Eboo Patel, in persisting to have inter-ehnic and inter-religious dialogue and cooperation.

Never mind the cynics and the negativists who have no hope, no faith in good human endeavours.

*In America(USA),better together*
Yes,right.Better together in US Constitution,Contemporary Values,Democracy,not in Desert Order,not swimming with dress(khashama) and not in Bedouin Order.

Interfaith may be Possible in Democracy and Human Rights.
First of all,Bedouin Order Followers should learn Contemporary Values.
First Democracy,second Interfaith,not first Interfaith later Democracy.

Dear Farnaz,

*trying to curtail antisemitism*
Do they curtail anti-hinduism ?
Do they curtail anti-christianity ?
Do they curtail Infidelism ?
Do they curtail anti-civilizationism ?

*If Muslims want tolerance,they need to stop being racist* Is this Possible ?
Can a Racist Mentality stop being Racist ?
Can Islam/Cult of Adam(first man) was muslim stop being Racist ?
How many students thanked to Hillel(Jewish Camp) Centers ? When they in Weak Position,they PRETEND to be Peaceful People,but,when they gain/get strong they show their teeth.Where are Yathrib Jewish People ?

Correct Sentence:If muslims want tolerance,they must reform,deflaw and tame thier faith.

Conclusion:Submission Imperialism(it's not a insult or begotry term.100 percent accurate,not 99 percent) is coming to USA(sooner or later) You can not impede this Treat by Intertfaith.
Remedy:Yes,there is Remedy....

This is a very interesting essay, Eboo. However, Jordan is not quite so exceptional as you make out.

I'm reminded of the numerous Jewish, Christian, and Catholic students throughout America who have stood up against anti-Islamic bigotry. In fact, in the wake of 9/11, Muslim students sought haven in Hillel Centers across America, as you know, since it was widely reported.

NOw, what I'd like to know is which Muslim students at which colleges have been trying to curtail antisemitism, Muslim in origin, for the most part, at colleges in America.

I'd like to know--just for example--about Muslim efforts at UC IRvine,a national disgrace for its Muslim anti-Jewish racism.

And then there is NYU, where a few years ago, the Muslim Student Organization sent out campus-wide emails of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

Both JEws and Christians were outraged and disgusted.

You see, Eboo, what goes round comes round.
If Muslims want tolerance, they need to stop being racists. And those who are not have to be like Jordan and speak out about those who are.

Speaking as a Jew, I can tell you that what goes around comes around. My own defense of Muslims is weakening, Eboo.

We Jews are the most liberal minded population in America. And our support and protection of Muslims is fading.

What goes around comes around. We haven't quite reached the bend yet, but it's visible.

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/HelsinkiGreece.php

With the date for E.U. negotiations now set, Turkey has taken bold steps to bring its laws into harmony with European Union standards. At the same time, however, Turkey's policies concerning religious freedom and the Greek Orthodox Church have come under increased international scrutiny, and so they should.

Our concerns include property expropriation and continued closure of the Halki Seminary, obstacles to ownership and repair of churches, and the steadfast refusal of Turkish authorities to recognize the ecumenical status of the Orthodox patriarch.

Today we have an outstanding group of panelists who will speak to these concerns. And this information, by the way, will then be passed on to members of Congress, House and Senate, so that they can be better informed about what is really going on.
The justification for property seizures is complex, but the core issue is simple: The patriarch-owned properties have shrunk by almost 80 percent, from 8,000 in 1936 to 1,700 at present; 1,100 of the remaining 1,700 are not legally recognized and are especially vulnerable to seizure.

There is a pattern: Properties are threatened with expropriation when the population of a religious community drops below a certain level. The government then determines a property has fallen into disuse, as they call it, and assumes its management.

Last September, Turkey did adopt regulations to improve the way the size of the religious community is gauged to give communities with legal status the ability to acquire new property.

However, the legislation ignores the fact that these seizures are fundamentally illegal, while not allowing communities to reclaim hundreds of properties expropriated by the state.

The most glaring property issues regarding the Orthodox Theological School of Halki, seized in 1971, when the government nationalized all institutions of higher education.

The continued closure of the only educational institution in Turkey for Orthodox Christian leadership is untenable and unconscionable.

This has had a deleterious effect on the ability of Turkey's Greek Orthodox citizens to train the next generation of clergy.

The Greek Orthodox Church in other communities, like the Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Orthodox and Catholic churches, have been deprived of important cultural sites and places of worship.

...

Akafir writes,

Turkey is not an exception. A presidential permission is required by the church to repair anything in the church buildings. Christians are less than 1% of the population, and the turks decided that they did not need all that church property, and so they just confiscated it.

I was under the impression that Kemal Ataturk may have abolished such discriminatory laws given his personal disdain for MO, but then again he may not have. I thought nearly 70 years od secular government it might be a sole exception.

Secular writes: "On the other hand every one of the 57 OICs, with a possible exception of Turkey"

Turkey is not an exception. A presidential permission is required by the church to repair anything in the church buildings. Christians are less than 1% of the population, and the turks decided that they did not need all that church property, and so they just confiscated it.

The issue of hate against the non-muslims in OIC countries is crucial for the American Muslims because it is a clear demonstration that Islam is supremacist by nature and non-muslims are hated within it. Why should that be any different within the muslim communities inside USA? It isn't. There are many young muslims in USA who are ignorant about Islam and cannot believe that Islam really hates the Kafirs to the extent that it does. When they are shown the truth, instead of speaking up, they disappear because they are fully aware of the penalty of saying anything against Islam in the muslim community. That is THE reason to insist that people like Eboo are confronted and asked to take a public stand. He will and cannot. Eboo and others like him know that the moment he does, he is no longer credible as a muslim in the muslim community.

Eboo,

"They explain that if you come together with somebody else in a common activity - even if you enter into that relationship with negative attitudes or even suspicion about their religion - your attitude improves throughout the course of participating in that common activity."

Yeah, we can have a good, old-fashioned BBQ; I'll bring the pig, the beer, some wine, some kites, balloons, music, movies, drawing material, women...

Hmmm... this may not be such a good idea after all...

I must have read at least a 1000 comments posted by Muslims and the western gullibles. All demanding that we be more accepting of muslims, etc, etc. I get rankled by that. Because I personally have several friends from the days of my primary school who were muslims, shared everything with each other. There is no country in the western Europe, US, Canada, India, Australia, Japan, even China, Russia, I would venture most of Latin America do they have laws that have explicitly written to discriminate the non-majority religionists. On the other hand every one of the 57 OICs, with a possible exception of Turkey, have their entire body of law discriminatory against non-muslim. I have yet to see one muslim commenter condemning this, I am talking a no name obscure anonymous muslim commenter cannot bring themselves to even condemn the laws of OICs. I have repeatedly ask for someone come forward but no one does. Instead they always mouth of Kumbayya inanities. Not to mention all these prominent muslims. The trouble is even if they were to openly say that they would regret that no sooner than they uttered those words. Just read Yasser's comments against Pamela Taylor on this blog. This twit condemns her mercilessly for her tolerance of Gays. There isn't a single muslim who came to her aid. SO you gullibles keep that in mind before you mouth any of those homilies.

http://www.cgijeddah.com/cgijed/welfare/deathbooklet.htm

Blood money or qisas in Islamic law is the monetary compensation paid to the dead's family. As the Sheikh explained in the previous post, a muslim is not to be killed for the death or even murder of a non-muslim. That is the Sharia in Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Pakistan. Now the Blood money rates are:
http://www.cgijeddah.com/cgijed/welfare/deathbooklet.htm
4. Mode of Pavment [sic] :

All Death Compensation cases (except industrial accidents) in Saudi Arabia are settled through concerned Shariat Courts in accordance with the Shariat Law.

5. Maximum Amount admissible :

The maximum amount of Death Compensation (Diyya) generally admissible in Saudi Arabia, in respect of road/traffic/fire accident, murder, etc. is as under:

Death Compensation in respect of a male person:

i. Muslim - SR. 100,000/-

ii. Christian/Jew - SR.50,000/-

iii. Other religions : such as Hindu, Buddhist, Jain, etc. - SR 6666.66

In the case of death of a female, death compensation allowed is equal to half the amount as admissible to males professing the same religion. Further the amount of compensation admissible, is based on the percentage of responsibility fixed on the causer e.g. if the causer is held 50% responsible for the accident resulting in the death of a Muslim, the amount of Death Compensation admissible will be SR 50,000 only.

So if a non-muslim maid from philipines dies, the murdering Sheikh is only responsible for 3,333 Riyals or about $890.
Now look up how many maids are tortured and brualized in Saudi Arabia, and see what the Sheikhs think of the non-muslims and why.

Has Eboo ever condemned this inhuman treatment of non-muslims by the Saudis, or the Iranians, or the Pakistanis?

But he touts how he is taking idealistic young American Kafir Students and training them to advance the cause of Islam in America. These Kafir students are taught to do Interfaith Dialog, that is don't point out the hate in Islam for the non-muslims but label it "Islamophobia" as loudly as you can. Instead make everyone feel good by pushing "don't question Islam but treat it like any other religion".

Please think and Examine and see what Interfaith Dialog really is for the American Kafirs.

The problem is not Muslims. The problem is Islam and its hate for the non-muslims.

In the last couple of days we had 58 christians killed in Baghdad and scores more injured after being held hostage in their Church. The first person shot was the priest.
Iran is going to stone a woman to death. In UK a member of parliment was stabbed by a muslim woman for his vote for the war in Iraq.
Bombs were mailed to jews in chicago from Yemen.

Treatment of non-muslims is summarised well by an Iranian Sheik commenting on Human Rights. The Iranian Shi'ite Sufi Sheikh Sultanhussein Tabandeh explains: "Thus if [a] Muslim commits adultery his punishment is 100 lashes, the shaving of his head, and one year of banishment. But if the man is not a Muslim and commits adultery with a Muslim woman his penalty is execution...Similarly if a Muslim deliberately murders another Muslim he falls under the law of retaliation and must by law be put to death by the next of kin. But if a non-Muslim who dies at the hand of a Muslim has by lifelong habit been a non-Muslim, the penalty of death is not valid. Instead the Muslim murderer must pay a fine and be punished with the lash....Since Islam regards non-Muslims as on a lower level of belief and conviction, if a Muslim kills a non-Muslim...then his punishment must not be the retaliatory death, since the faith and conviction he possesses is loftier than that of the man slain...Again, the penalties of a non-Muslim guilty of fornication with a Muslim woman are augmented because, in addition to the crime against morality, social duty and religion, he has committed sacrilege, in that he has disgraced a Muslim and thereby cast scorn upon the Muslims in general, and so must be executed....Islam and its peoples must be above the infidels, and never permit non-Muslims to acquire lordship over them." -- Sultanhussein Tabandeh, A Muslim Commentary on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Non-muslims are treated as second class citizens in all muslim countries around the world because that is in Islam and has that hate codified in its Sharia. These interfaith dialog is an insult to the millions of non-muslims being brutalized around the world. American Muslim organizations and people like Eboo should be pressured to speak against the hate that is in Islam. Without an unambiguous condemnation of the hate in Islam for the non-muslim, all dialog by the Muslims should be viewed as a way to fool the American Kafirs. Show one column, one statement by any Muslim organisation that condemns the Sharia laws that implement hate against the Kafirs. Let the Muslims condemn the the banning of the non-muslims from Mecca because they are as filthy (najis) as urine and feces as start of real Interfaith Dialog. Till then, take everything that CAIR, ISNA, MAS, and people like Eboo say with a huge huge grain of salt.

""They explain that if you come together with somebody else in a common activity - even if you enter into that relationship with negative attitudes or even suspicion about their religion - your attitude improves throughout the course of participating in that common activity.""

Bingo. :)

There's nothing like a good old-fashioned barn raising or something. :)