yasseryousufi

You wrote, "Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum!
You need help man! Seriously!"

Whether you know it or not, there were quite a few who said the same thing about Jesus.

Telling me that I need help, is that your way of avoiding answering simple questions?

Is it also your excuse for avoiding the "fact" that you either misunderstood what I wrote or deliberately twisted what I wrote and either can't or won't comment on which of these two it is?

In different posts to you, the questions that I have posed are not hard, they have actually been quite simple and straight-forward and it seems that rather than to answer them even if the answer is, I don't know, you resort to belittling, would you consider this cultural or religious on your part?

By the way, I am not here to "argue" with anyone but to let the world know that the captives (hell) shall be released and the dead (physical and spiritual) shall rise, just as it is written.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

"Ranting 24/7 against "perceived crimes" of Islam that are almost cultural issues rather than religious ones"

Take a look how a "full-bred" Australian misunderstands Islam and exhibits cultural issues:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/features/full-bred-aussie-with-a-longing-for-sharia-law/story-e6frg6z6-1225991941740

While he (IBRAHIM Siddiq-Conlon) claims to eschew violence, he unapologetically preaches hate. An online video posted by his group describes its members as "uncompromising [in] their disallegiance, disloyalty and hate for the disbelievers". "I hate the parliament. I hate [democracy] with a pure hate," he says. Moreover, it is obligatory for all Muslims to reject democracy, because it is a challenge to God's law: "They must hate it, speak out against it, and if that doesn't work, take action against it."
...
"I'm an Aussie, I'm a full-bred Aussie, you can't get more Aussie than me," he insists.

But his proclaimed love for Australia is followed quickly by a prediction that, ultimately, Muslims here will have to fight for Islamic law. He doubts the struggle will begin in the next 10 or 20 years, but hopes it will occur in his lifetime. "People don't give up [their land without a fight]. There's always been a fight. It is inevitable that one day there will be a struggle for Islam in Australia. We don't shy away from it. Whether it means we get put in jail, kicked out of the country. If it means harm to us, so be it."

Nor does his disavowal of violence extend to Australian troops in Afghanistan, who he describes as "evil".
****************

This is cultural? Where would this full-bred Aussie be getting such information and how could he so misunderstand Islam so badly?

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum!

You need help man! Seriously!

yasseryousuf

I wrote, "It must be easier to call someone a "Evil Demon" or some other "epithet" rather than to respond to what one writes or asks about, because this seems to be what you consistently do."

I then asked, "Do you do this because it is easier or because you have no suitable response?"

You replied, "Dear Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum aka crazy old hallucinator!"

Seems as if you find it both easier and have no suitable reply.

You added, "You say that holy ghost has entered into you and makes you say what you say,"

This is not even close to what I have said on my posts whether or not you believe what I write is immaterial but the fact that you twist what I write is very telling.

I have said that the Holy Spirit came into my body on 29 Jan 2000 but I have never said that the Holy Spirit makes me say what I say.

You then asked, "then who am i to argue with you?"

argue: "to present reasons for or against a thing"

As far as "argue", as in a discusion, one would have to first listen to what the other says rather than twist what the other says, wouldn't you think so?

You then wrote, "you can increase your brood by aligning with Kafir your fellow "Satan worshiper"."

I am not trying to increase my "brood" for the simple reason that I do not have a "brood".

Do you think that the Trinity is satan?

Do you think that the "Being of Pure Love" is satan?

Do you think that Jesus is satan?

You also wrote, " I am not gonna waste my time with someone who believes he is "Jesus incarnate" along with other hilarious claims."

I have never claimed to be "Jesus incarnate", I have claimed that Jesus is God-Incarnate.

Whether or not you believe that Jesus is God-Incarnate and not merely a prophet, can you not see the difference between what you said I believe and what I said that I believe?

As far as "along with other hilarious claims", time will tell.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Poor Kafir,

Ranting 24/7 against "perceived crimes" of Islam that are almost cultural issues rather than religious ones (India, his hometown tops the list in religious motivated violence)thinks he is a victim when the spotlight is on him. He always runs away from debates when pressed on his claims. Now he wants a free pass to rant his false claims. That wont gonna happen. You have met your nemesis, Panditji! I'll keep showing you the mirror every time you show up and im sorry if you look ugly~!

YasserYousufi writes: "Because every time a voice of sanity like you speaks for Islam, it burns another part of the blackened soul of this smelly hatemonger called Kafir"

I present news of a Dr. Suleman Nasri Khan converted to Christianity being brutally beaten up and his newborn daughter killed and the Dr. identified two of the goons as Allama Atta-Ullah Attari and Allama Masaud Hussain. Allama is a title. What does it mean? Literally it means "Scholar" but it's normative use in Pakistan is for Religious Scholar, usually some one who has done all the requisite studies at a madrassah, taught there, and has written at least a few tracts on some religious issue. Why? Because Dr. Khan is an apostate. If he doesn't recant he will be killed. Dr. Khan is a rare believer. He knows he faces certain death. He spends his last penny to help other christians and speaks up on their behalf. And he is doing ministry in the "heart of the beast". I am not a Christian, but I have nothing but admiration and literally "awe" for the man, because I know I am not capable of such bravery or humanity.

And then I write about an 18 year old christian boy being sodomized and shot to death by Pakistani police. How is it not possible to feel the pain of that boys father? What must that kids mother have gone through?

I caution Peter that he really should investigate why such atrocities are happening to Christians, really non-Muslims, on a regular basis in Pakistan. That is where Interfaith Dialog really belongs.

If for that I am a hate monger and I have a "blackened soul of an Evil Demon" then so be it. It would be truthful to call me a weak coward, and I would shamefully acknowledge it.

I know Dr. Nasri Khan will be "martyred" one day and he apparently accepts that. He is the proof that humans are capable of love.

Dear Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum aka crazy old hallucinator!

You say that holy ghost has entered into you and makes you say what you say, then who am i to argue with you? you can increase your brood by aligning with Kafir your fellow "Satan worshiper". Keep scratching each others spiny backs and stop worrying about me. I am not gonna waste my time with someone who believes he is "Jesus incarnate" along with other hilarious claims.

yasseryousufi

You wrote, "If it were for Evil Demons like Kafir, none of your kind could ever appear on this blog and we'd only be subjected to posts that Kafir loves to read from the likes of Jordan Sekulow, Pam Geller etc. ranting the trademark invectives against islam. Because every time a voice of sanity like you speaks for Islam, it burns another part of the blackened soul of this smelly hatemonger called Kafir~!"

It must be easier to call someone a "Evil Demon" or some other "epithet" rather than to respond to what one writes or asks about, because this seems to be what you consistently do.

Do you do this because it is easier or because you have no suitable response?

By the way, the True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God has a Plan and has had that Plan since before creation and God's Plan, which if for ALL to be in God's Kingdom, will come to Fruition.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Peter,

If it were for Evil Demons like Kafir, none of your kind could ever appear on this blog and we'd only be subjected to posts that Kafir loves to read from the likes of Jordan Sekulow, Pam Geller etc. ranting the trademark invectives against islam. Because every time a voice of sanity like you speaks for Islam, it burns another part of the blackened soul of this smelly hatemonger called Kafir~!

Peter,

I hope you are really interested in real Interfaith Dialog. You are a christian, you say. I hope you do pay attention to how Christians are treated in Pakistan. I do hope you can talk Eboo Patel to actually speak up for Interfaith Dialog on behalf of the Christians of Pakistan.

A recent piece of news to show you the conditions in Pakistan for Christians:
http://www.compassdirect.org/english/country/pakistan/28141/
"Muslim extremists in Islamabad on Monday (Nov. 1) beat with bricks and hockey sticks a Christian clergyman who is the subject of a fatwa demanding his death.
The Rev. Dr. Suleman Nasri Khan, a former fighter in Afghanistan before his conversion to Christianity in 2000, suffered a serious head injury, a hairline fracture in his arm and a broken bone in his left ankle in the assault by 10 Muslim extremists; he was able to identify two of them as Allama Atta-Ullah Attari and Allama Masaud Hussain.
...
Khan, 34, had relocated to a rented apartment in Islamabad after fleeing his home in Gujrat because of death threats against him and his family, he said. The fatwa, a religious order to be obeyed by all Muslims, was issued after Khan protested anti-Christian violence in Kalupura last month.
Muslim extremists who learned of his conversion had first attacked Khan in 2008 – killing his first child, 3-month old Sana Nasri Khan. He and wife Aster Nasri Khan escaped.
...
“When my wife asked who they were, they replied, ‘We have learned that you have disgraced Islam by recanting, therefore we will set your house on fire,” Khan told Compass. “When my wife told them that I was not at home, they left a letter threatening to torch the house and kill my whole family and ordered me to recant Christianity and embrace Islam.”
...
***************
Do you really believe in Christianity, Peter? Do you think this man who is standing up for his beliefs needs your support?

Here is another piece of news from Pakistan as well:
http://www.compassdirect.org/english/country/pakistan/31466/
KARACHI, Pakistan, January 18 (CDN) — Pakistani police are threatening the father of an 18-year-old Christian man whom officers raped, killed and threw into a sewer last week, according to area Christians.

Christian residents of Akhter Colony, Karachi who pulled the body of Waqas Gill from the sewer on Jan. 11 protested an alleged police cover-up by placing the corpse in the middle of a street and chanting slogans against officers of Mehmoodabad police station. They said local officers kidnapped and sodomized Gill before shooting him dead on Jan. 9.
***

How old are you Peter? Sodomizing an 18 year old and shooting him dead all because he is a christian? I hope you can make your Interfaith Dialog useful.

Do you know Islam, Peter? You better learn it and learn it well. I am an ex-Muslim and I assure you that Eboo Patel lies about Islam to you. So take the time and look into it for yourself.

Hitman writes: "Akafir Is begging to be allowed into Mecca. What he will do there? A non-believer without desire to pray, asking Allah for equallity.
No doubt Allah sees His creatures with equality, but cunning kafir is unreasonable and illogical."

Mecca and Medinah are large cities. Mecca has a population of over a 1.3 million. Now Hitman2 wants to believe that these over a million Muslims are all praying and all very pious, and certainly much much more "eligible" to be in Mecca than the best of the Kafirs. As the scholars of Islam tell the Muslims, even the saints of the Kafirs will burn in Hell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbSUkq5ePew

No doubt Allah sees His creatures with equality? My, my this is from Hitman2 who called a Kafir najas? Allah clearly says that Mushrikun are filthy. And that is Allah see his creatures with equality? Allah hates the Kafirs. Allah detests the kafirs. Allah commands the Muslims again and again to kill the Kafirs, and that for the Muslim Hitman2 is equality?

Well this Kafir has been to Mecca and to Hajj. And this Kafir can testify that the what Muslims call vices of the Kafirs are present and healthy in Mecca as well. In a city of a million people, in a culture that is brutally sexually repressive, mankind is pretty much what one would expect anywhere else.

The Hajj is a symbol and a clear unambiguous evidence of hate and discrimination by the Muslims against the non-muslims. Their despotic deity, Allah, hates the non-muslims with a passion, and that is the only reason why non-Muslims are prohibted from Mecca and Medina.

Akafir

Is begging to be allowed into Mecca. What he will do there? A non-believer without desire to pray, asking Allah for equallity.
No doubt Allah sees His creatures with equality, but cunning kafir is unreasonable and illogical.

I agree with a lot of what is written in this post. I think that the people that do the most damage to the reputation of Christianity, are those who call themselves Christians, but treat others in a very non-Christ like way. The damage is particularly harmful because people (i) may wonder “why is your religion so great if even you, who claim to be an adherent, don’t believe it enough to live a life in accordance with its principals?”, or (ii) even worse, may attribute these hypocrisies as originating from Christianity itself as opposed to the hypocrite.

However, I do not think, as some commenters have asserted below, that merely believing one’s own idea to be superior to other ideas is in and of itself wrong. This is simply the nature of having a belief or an opinion. The fact that a person has a particular opinion indicates that by definition that person finds other related opinions to be lacking in comparison. If they did not then some other idea would be their belief instead. Even believing that a group of ideas are equally great or terrible is itself a belief that one considers to be superior to believing in any particular one of the ideas exclusively.

yasseryousufi

I posted this on Akbar Ahmed"s "Half of the world cannot go to war" and maybe you missed it, so I am reposting it here for you.

You wrote, "The (Issa) Jesus represented in the Quran is absolutely the one represented in the real Bible not the one polluted by evil Constantine and Greeks of many gods and godesses (hence the concept of Trinity)."

Does this mean that the "real Bible", as you put it, is not the bible that anyone else on this planet, at this time, that considers themself a Christian, thinks of as the bible?

Does this mean the "Bible" that speaks of Jesus being crucified?

Does this mean the "Bible" where Jesus says, "I and the Father Are One"?

Does this mean the "Bible" where Jesus says, "I will send the Holy Spirit to guide you..."?

Does this mean the "Bible" where it says that Jesus "died" on the cross and rose from the dead?

Does this mean the "Bible" where when Jesus's Apostles asked Him to teach them how to pray, said, "When you pray, pray 'Our Father...'"?

Does this mean the "Bible" where Jesus said, "This is My Body...", "This is My Blood..."?

You then wrote, "The real Jesus bears little resemblance to the one created by these idol worshipers."

Just what does the "Jesus" resemble that was "created by these idol worshipers"?

You then wrote, "The real bible never said anything about trinity."

The word "trinity" may have never appeared in the bilbe but The Trinity most definitely has been alluded to many times in both the old and new testaments.

I have met Dad, God the Father, I have met the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus, there is the Trinity.

You then asked, " What do the dead sea scrolls say about concept of trinity? "

I don't know.

You also asked, "Why does the vatican discourages its publication?"

I don't know if the Vatican discourages or doesn't discourage "its publication" but this is something to take up with the Vatican, not me.

God knew that I needed to "know" some things and that would be why God allowed me to "know" that God Is a Trinity and that satan is real and some other things to even attempt to do the "job" God choose me to do.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

yasseryousufi

You wrote, "Jesus is not son of God!

The face of Christianity of Jesus changed the day Rome replaced Jerusalem as the center of faith and Pauline Christianity replaced the true word of God brought through Jesus."

Actually, Jesus was not "downgraded" from Who He Is, God-Incarnate, to a mere prophet until the liar came to Muhammed and not only lied about Who Jesus Is but then claimed Jesus as his prophet.

It was only a couple of years ago that I knew virtually nothing about islam, including the fact that it is so recent, coming on the scene in the 600's AD.

This came as quite a surprise to me until I found out a "little" about it.

Seems kind of strange, doesn't it, that islam claims to flow from the Jewish "Holy Books" and Christian "Holy Books" by stating that these aforementioned "Holy Books" are lies.

My question is: Is islam built on a "pack of lies", as the koran claims the Jewish and Christian bibles to be, or is it just a lie delivered to Muhammed from the liar?

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

GiveMeThat

You wrote, "TPMB, you have it wrong, but the way. Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, people CAN be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.""

And did you happen to read what I wrote on the post of January 20, 2011 11:48 AM, "Have you ever thought that what Jesus said in the "whole statement", "All sins will be forgiven except...", could be Jesus's way to speaking to whomever this needed to be spoken to?

You then wrote, "TPMB says, everyone gets to go to heaven!"

What I have written in the past and repeat here, "I look past heaven to the Kingdom", haven't you heard it mentioned about the "new heavens and the new earth"?

You then wrote, "Jesus says, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.""

Not only do I believe that this is true but this is "one of the reasons", so to speak, why God came up with His "Plan" before creation itself.

You then wrote, "Jesus or TPMB, whom to believe?"

Jesus is God-Incarnate, I am just a messenger, Jesus extended the invitation to "Come follow Me", I haven't.

Jesus taught us in the Lord's Prayer to pray , "...Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on earth as it is in heaven...", maybe we should pray for "God's Will" and for "God's Kingdom", what do you think?

Have you ever heard the statement from the bible: "My Ways are not your ways and My Thoughts are not your thoughts"?

Have you ever met Dad, the One Who Is referred to as the First Person of the Trinity?

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Jesus is not son of God!

The face of Christianity of Jesus changed the day Rome replaced Jerusalem as the center of faith and Pauline Christianity replaced the true word of God brought through Jesus.

Constantine, the Pagan emperor of Rome who also presided the Council of Nicea couldn't cope with the growing communities of Christians whose opposition he had no wish for as it would have weakened his empire and whose support would be invaluable in strengthening it. By remodelling Christianity, he hoped to gain the Church's support and at the same time end the confusion which had arisen within it and which was the source of yet more conflicts within his empire. So out went the real Bible. The new Jesus was elevated from a Prophet of God to God himself, thus the pagan romans and the greeks of many gods created a new religion to suit their own tastes.

In the first century after the disappearance of Jesus, those who followed him continues to affirm the Divine Unity. This is illustrated by the fact that the Shepherd of Hermas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherd_of_Hermas) written in about 90AD was regarded as a book of revelation by the church. The first of twelve commandments which it contains begins:

"First of all, believe that God is One that He created all things and organized them and out of what did not exist made all things to be and He contains all things but alone Himself is Uncontained...."

TPMB, you have it wrong, but the way. Jesus said, "Truly I tell you, people CAN be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin."

TPMB says, everyone gets to go to heaven!

Jesus says, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Jesus or TPMB, whom to believe?

GiveMeThat

You wrote, "But also, Jesus is clear: repentance then forgiveness..."

You also wrote, ""He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'"

Jesus also said, "Whatever you did do for one of the least of these, you did do for me".

Jesus did not add, 'If you repent, then you have done it for me', what He said was "Whatever you did do" and also "Whatever you didn't do".

There is also nothing about "believing in God", in the verses that you referenced, is there?

As a matter of fact, quite the contrary, wouldn't you say?

Seems to me that ALL of us have fallen into the category of "didn't do" and also "did do" some time or the other, so are we all going to both "Eternal punishment" and "Eternal reward"?

Also, in the "Beatitudes", they say, "Blessed are..." and the words "if they repent" are not tacked on the end of them, Jesus spoke many things and many of the things that Jesus spoke are on more than "one level".

God is turning Eternity into time and both those that go to Eternal punishment and those that go to Eternal reward will enter into the everlasting Kingdom when God uses the "keys", as I said, in due time, God's Time.

God is a Jealous God and God's Jealousy is not the petty jealousy that we humans are prone to, God's "Jealousy for His Creation" will win the day, the seventh day, the day that says, as it is written, "God Blest, Rested and Made Holy".

Jesus did tell us, "My Father has been busy even until now", didn't He?

You can think of God as a loser if you wish, but God's Plan is something to be thankful for, thankful that God died for All, not just some, a tie is something way beyond horrible.

You then wrote, "So no, not all sins are forgiven. The Muslim who blows himself up with a family of Israelis...doomed."

Are you telling God just who He can and who He can't forgive, who He can and who He can't save, who He can and who He can't allow in HIS KINGDOM?

God became One of us and died so that All can be reconciled to God, not for you to become God and say just who is forgiven.

To repeat what you wrote, "So no, not all sins are forgiven."

Have you ever thought that what Jesus said in the "whole statement", "All sins will be forgiven except...", could be Jesus's way to speaking to whomever this needed to be spoken to?

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

TPMB asks, "Does Jesus deny 'universal salvation'...?

He does indeed with the following words that have built more schools and hospitals and fed more poor than any others:
---
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the ETERNAL fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'"

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

"Then they will go away to ETERNAL punishment, but the righteous to ETERNAL life."

TPMB also asks, "[D]o you recall when Jesus said, 'ALL sins will be forgiven except...'?"

As matter of fact, I do:

"...but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin."

But also, Jesus is clear: repentance then forgiveness...

"He went into all the country around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins."

"Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying 'I repent,' you must forgive them."

and this...

"If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

So no, not all sins are forgiven. The Muslim who blows himself up with a family of Israelis...doomed.

GiveMeThat

You wrote, "Thus, Jesus repeatedly talks about the reality of Hell and denies universal salvation. Are we to ignore that?"

I have also spoke of the "reality" of both hell and spiritual death.

I have also said that Jesus "won" the "keys" to both hell and death (physical and spiritual) and that these "keys" will be used in due time, God's Time.

I have also mentioned that when Jesus said, "Simon, thou art Peter and upon this rock, I will build MY CHURCH and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against IT", that it was here where Jesus spelled out the mission of HIS CHURCH and it was the "gates of the netherworld" that Jesus won the keys to.

Does Jesus deny "universal salvation" or do we just not "see" that Jesus says more than might be perceived on the surface, do you recall when Jesus said, "ALL sins will be forgiven except..."?

God put it all "on the line", so to speak, and God's Will, as it says, is for ALL TO BE SAVED, and God's Will will come to Fruition.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

(un)clearthinking1, you fail to understand basic logic. You said that "This is why all religiously motivated conflict in the world has Christians or Muslims fighting on one side or both." I pointed out that this was false. Rather the paradigm is Muslim against X, where X represents all other religions. For example, the Mumbai massacre involved no Christians. The 10,000 rockets launched against Israel involved no Christians. Thus, your assertion is FALSE.

What is true, to the best of my knowledge is that there is no place in the world where non-majority Muslims, are peacefully coexisting with other religions. In contrast, there are many places where Christians are living as peaceful minorities (or perhaps peaceful oppressed minorities, e.g., the middle east).

Your assertion that Christians are attacking Hindus in Orissa is disgustingly false. See one of many horrifying stories here (http://tinyurl.com/47swtaz) about a Catholic nun who was gang raped and then the mob tried to make a Catholic priest have sex with the victim as well.

Peter writes: "I am deeply passionate about interfaith cooperation"

Hajj is a marvellous demonstration of the brotherhood in Islam. Watch how hundreds of thousands of muslims all dressed in white move in union around that black stone. Race, color, national origin, caste, etc. does not matter. Not one bit. A black stands equal and next to a white European. People even bring their dead so the dead can perform the Hajj they were unable to while they were alive.

But, in all this submitting to Allah, there is one sign that says that Kafirs (non-muslims) are not allowed in Mecca. Allah tells his creation:

049.013
YUSUFALI: O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

Righteous by what standard? Can a Kafir be righteous enough to be acceptable to Allah? Apparently not. Even righteous Kafirs like Mother Terrasa, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, etc. are all doomed to the fires of Hell. Muslims are not even allowed to pray to Allah on behalf of a dead Kafir, righteous or not.

Why is it that Allah excludes the majority of mankind, the non-Muslims, so Najjas, so filthy, so impure that they are not to even set foot near the cities of Mecca and Medinah? Kafirs are not humans. They are not even as good as the corpses of the dead Muslims apparently.

Peter, can you get your close friends like Mr. Eboo Patel to declare that Kafirs are not that filthy, impure, Najjas to be treated as filthier than the corpses of Muslims. You as a christian should be able to pray your way in a church with your fellow christians in Saudi Arabia. The Saudis may not agree, but don't you think your Muslim friends here who have such great faith in "Interfaith Dialog" should go on record that the Saudis are wrong? Let us see if you can convince you mentor (?) friend Mr. Eboo Patel to go on record for opening up Mecca and Medina to a small church for you and your fellow christians.

Is that too much to ask?

Givemethat,

I suggest you read about religious violence between Christians and Muslims in Nigeria, Sudan, Philippines, Egypt and many other places today.

You may want to read the "Tenth Parallel" by Eliza Griswold.

BTW, there is more anti-Hindu violence by Christians than anti-Christian violence in Orissa. Anyway, you only substantiate my point that Christians and Muslims are always involved on one side or both or religious conflict. The supremacist attitudes of these 2 religions cause problems.

"This is why all religiously motivated conflict in the world has Christians or Muslims fighting on one side or both. Not very impressive."

This is, of course, false. What is true is that on ever 'edge' of Islam, there is religious conflict. But the Muslims are fighting with the Hindus (remember the Mumbai massacre?), and of course Israel. And we have the never ending inter-Muslim violence. So the common denominator of religious violence is Islam. The one exception is the Hindu anti-Christian violence in Orissa.

Rabbi Baum gives a "nice" response. But we (and he) G-d or YWH or God is not necessarily nice.

---
"Their kings will come and set up their thrones in the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem; they will come against all her surrounding walls and against all the towns of Judah.
I will pronounce my judgments on my people because of their wickedness in forsaking me, in burning incense to other gods and in worshiping what their hands have made."
---

Rabbi Baum writes, "See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom." Jesus certainly talked about eternal consequences:
---
"If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."

"Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"

"The time came when the beggar (Lazarus) died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'..."

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
---
Thus, Jesus repeatedly talks about the reality of Hell and denies universal salvation. Are we to ignore that?

The Koran says if we die in Jihad (shahid), we will get 72 virgins in paradise (exact number may vary). Is that a "path to God"? Or is blowing up Israelis in a coffeeshop not a valid path? And if that is not a valid path to God, then what are the valid ones? If some are valid and some are invalid, then the which ones are valid? So suppose there are 20 valid paths, maybe Buddhist meditation is in (it is kind of groovy), but, say, Scientology is out as was Jim Jones Koolaid party. But if some are out, could it not be all but one are out? Again, why would God go through the trouble of the incarnation if I can do yoga on a mountaintop and eat tofu and achieve the same results?

Givemethat,

You wrote, "Sorry but all religions are not equal. That is unitarian tripe... Christianity and Hinduism are antithetical. Christianity and Islam are antithetical. Islam and Buddhism are antithetical."

All religions are not equal. Tolerance is superior to intolerance and supremacism like yours.
The fact is that many Hindus celebrate Christmas -- no big deal. Islam is a different story, as seen in the blasphemy laws in all Islamic nations like Pakistan. Why not respect someone else's method and judge them on their actions and intentions. Many Christians are decent people, just like some Muslims, Buddhists, or Hindus.

But if it is intrinsic in your spiritual system to disrespect others and their beliefs, to treat others as inferior and incorrect, and to try to convert them, then you have a very serious deficiency in your religion. This is why all religiously motivated conflict in the world has Christians or Muslims fighting on one side or both. Not very impressive.

amelia45

You wrote, "Thank you, Thomas Baum, for the reminder of the "untold number of ways to Jesus". Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but I also think there are an untold number of ways to God, including through Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity."

Considering that Jesus Is God, I did mean it that way but I do not believe that God limits "access", so to speak, only to those that "believe" or "have a religion".

I also take Jesus, at His Word, when He said, "No one comes to the Father except thru Me" and since God Is a Trinity who knows just how many "ways" there may be to the Holy Spirit.

You then wrote, "Choose one. Love God. Love your neighbor. Seek truth. See you in paradise."

As I have said many times, "The True, Living, Triune, Triumphant God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof" and "It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows".

God looks at the person, not the "label".

God has a Plan and has had that Plan since before creation and God's Plan, which is for all of humanity and all of creation, will come to Fruition.

See you AND the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Givemethat said: "...but rather to protect Christianity from the corrupting influence of government and to protect freedom of religion - not freedom from religion."

Well, what an odd take on things. I suppose one could see things that way. I think, rather, the founders wanted to protect government from the corrupting influence of religion, at least any one particular religion becoming so strong that it dictated to the government. Remember, the founders recognized what happened to government when religion - particularly Catholicism but also Church of England at that time - sought to form society-through government- into only the shapes that particular religion allowed. But Baptists, Methodists, Calvinists - all were persecuted somewhere in Europe, the founders knew it and saw what damage was done to basic human freedoms when government became too intertwined with any one religion.

Absolutely, the founders wanted each person to be able to practice their religion without interference from the government. But I also believe that these very intelligent men could have said "Christian" somewhere in the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, or mentioned Jesus or the Bible, if they meant this to be a "christian" nation. They didn't. They really did mean for this to be a nation that was not ruled by a religion. They welcomed Jews here. They were not unaware that other faiths besides Christianity and Judaism existed. They believed in "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God."

Thank you, Thomas Baum, for the reminder of the "untold number of ways to Jesus". Maybe you didn't mean it this way, but I also think there are an untold number of ways to God, including through Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity. Choose one. Love God. Love your neighbor. Seek truth. See you in paradise.

Of course (real) Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the only way. Christians believe that God responded to the sinfulness of man be becoming incarnate in Jesus and that the suffering and death of Jesus atoned for our sinfulness. It is through that sacrifice that we can approach a righteous God.

Now, if one can meditate on one's navel on a some mountaintop and achieve the same thing, why would God go through all that trouble? If you can murder Israelis and obtain a ticket to heaven (with a harem of virgins), why bother with the incarnation? So, yes, Christianity claims uniqueness. That is a given for anyone who believes in the incarnation.

Sorry but all religions are not equal. That is unitarian tripe. And the shopping cart religion is also nonsense (trying to take a little here and a little there). Christianity and Hinduism are antithetical. Christianity and Islam are antithetical. Islam and Buddhism are antithetical. Choose one or choose none. But don't believe that choosing none will lessen violence. Stalin, Pol Pot, and Mao chose none.

Mr. Peter Hong,

YOU ARE DOOMED TO FAILURE. You may think you are sincere, but you will cause more problems and bring more suffering than you alleviate. Supremacist beliefs inevitably lead to bigotry & intolerance and then to conflict & violence.

YOUR FANCIFUL & DECEPTIVE GAME ENDS AS SOON AT IT BEGINS:
"Essential to my faith is the belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Furthermore, I believe that Jesus Christ is the only Way."

THE ONLY WAY? Highly offensive and a very, very poor start. You are a failure already.

The basis of James Madison's government was founded from the old testament:

"At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
'For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.'"

And this: "It is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other."

The "separation of church and state" (which is not in the Constitution) was of much more importance to the founding fathers because they saw first hand the damage done to the Gospel message by have a secular king also be head of the church. But the anti-establishment clause was put there, not to protect people from being exposed to religious thought, which is what the secularists want, but rather to protect Christianity from the corrupting influence of government and to protect freedom of religion - not freedom from religion.

I am an evangelical Christian. Fundamentalist is used as a pejorative by the secularist - trying to equate fundamentalist Christians with Jihadists blowing up people. This is a parody by the mainstream, secular media. Ever met a fundamentalist? Go to an Assemblies of God church. They are living the Gospel meaning giving more to the poor, praying for the lost and trying to lead upright lives. This is Christian Fundamentalism.

Tolerance is used by the secularists to try to get Christians to conform to the world. "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is--his good, pleasing and perfect will."

Tolerance is a buzz word to not speak out against sin. We see the consequences of sin daily. We aren't suppose to speak out? Is that loving? It is like having a life preserver and not be willing to throw it to a drowning victim.

Only the elimination of all conservative Christians will allow all Americans to be free and the world to no longer have to live in fear of the U.S.A.'s imperialist, terrorist holy war. The conservative ideology has never helped mankind in any way, it has not only never helped mankind in anyway, it has oppressed, murdered, raped and killed all those in it's way to gain power. History shows us this. Fact shows us this. James Madison, the "Father of the U.S. Constitution", along with many founders of this country, regardless of their religious or non-religious affiliations, knew keeping politics and religion separate not only preserves each, but helps them flourish: "The number, the industry, and the morality of the Priesthood and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church and the State.

Interesting post.

I am Evangelical; but, I am not a fundamentalist. All of Jesus' parables were stories he made up to teach a moral and spiritual truth.

The parables were based on real situations like historical fiction is.

It was the Greek-speaking pagans in Antioch, Syria who coined the epithet "Christian" to make fun of those who preached about "The Anointed One" ("Ho Christos" in Greek).

Jesus' real followers in the 1st Century AD called themselves "Believers" and they called their church "The way."

The politicized religion of "Christianity" is not in the Bible. Orthodox Christianity, aka Christian Orthodoxy, was founded by the Byzantine Emperor Constantine in 325 AD in Nicea, Turkey.

Thomas writes:

"Have you ever thought that there might just be an unknown number of ways to Jesus, even tho Jesus is "The Way" to the Father, Dad, Abba?"

May Abba and his son bless you Thomas. You do show true tolerance in faith.

BEHOLD; The "ST. ALiEN(s) & ALiEN SAiNT(s) are come'th. YeYo Can Run'th But Nay Hide'th!
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Behold YEYO HUMAN(s), your now in Good-Hands with US/U.S. "SAINT-ALIEN"S and the "ALIEN SAINT"S. WE HUUMATE(s) art Come! And Been Here 21,444 Gregorian Years already. WHEREFORE:

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REMEMBER In 'IT' {No-HIM nor No-HER} [i]ALL Trust." AND

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Peter Hong

You wrote, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the only Way, the Truth, and the Life, and that no one comes to the Father (i.e., God) except through Christ."

Didn't Jesus say, "I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father except thru Me"?

Why did you add your "two additions"?

That is the word "only" and "(i.e., God)".

Jesus did not say He was the "only way", He said, "The Way".

Jesus did not say "to God" but He said "To Dad" which is what Abba translates as.

Do you believe that God Is a Trinity?

Your additions to this simple statement by Jesus totally changes it's meaning.

Have you ever thought that there might just be an unknown number of ways to Jesus, even tho Jesus is "The Way" to the Father, Dad, Abba?

Question: Do you believe that God wins Total Victory or are you settling for a worthless tie?

Actually, a tie would be infinitely worse than worthless.

You then wrote, "I want to be a fundamentalist, an extremist. For love. For justice. For peace in our world."

These are nice sentiments but didn't Jesus ask us to pray for, "Thy Kingdom come, They Will be done"?

Jesus did say, "My Kingdome is not of this world", didn't He?

God becoming One of us is about our life in the here and now, but more importantly, it is also about God's Plan, which as the Angels announced at His birth, "This is Good News for ALL PEOPLE", coming to Fruition.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

True Christian Fundamentalism as practiced today can be defined as a literalization of the Bible. The problem with such a literalization is that there are many parts of the Bible which contradict other parts of the Bible, and little of it has to do with the message of the author.

I applaud his attempt to present fundamentalism in a glowing and redemptive light, but it can't be done honestly. In fact, many fundamentalists would argue that what he presents isn't fundamentalism at all, and he is misguided.

I think his message rings true, but to present it as fundamentalist Christian doctrine is a mistake. I am always wary of those who call themselves "Christian". When I was growing up, we called ourselves Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, Congregationalist, etc., confirming the fact that though we were "Christians", we were operating with slightly different operating manuals than each of the other sects. Now the so-called "Christians", who are basically fundamentalist in orientation, have hi-jacked the title for their own purposes.

This is supreme arrogance on their part, and makes me wish for just a little humility to be expressed, somewhere, somehow, in the "Christian" fundamentalist world. Alas, none is to be seen anywhere. Thus I question whether the author really knows what is going on out there in "Christian" fundamental land. But I applaud his message.