TTetceetc: "“A massive historic, cross cultural, and literary literature exists on the child sexual abuse etiology and the role of absent/and/or brutalizing parents in the crafting of heterophobic males and females."

Actually, there's no correlation at all between child sexual abuse as a 'cause' of sexual orientations. (and your figures are from long and roundly-debunked 'studies' that people who promote hate simply keep using, ...including some that claim homosexuals are inherently mentally-ill because they went to psychiatric hospitals for their 'sample' of gay people.

Yes, abuse is and has been rampant... In society as it is. Gay kids are often abused by their parents and priests and others *because they're vulnerable and easily-silenced.* But there's no correlation between being abused and being gay, the majority of gays are so without having been abused, so you can't make that claim.

Again, on the topic, just because you quote bad science to claim gay people are bad, and 'deserve' injustice and *your* abuse, doesn't mean that spreading hatred and denying equality in any way *helps* the social problems you want to accuse us of or associate us with:

In fact, a life of real dignity and equality and an atmosphere of fairness and openness if we can get there, is the *best* defense against abuse and all the social problems of a dispossessed, scorned, and stigmatized class of people.

If LBGT folks (and straights) can look forward to a real, full, and open life in society, there's less feeling of being *outside* society.

(continued below)

(continued from above)

Frankly, your *teachings* *equate* consensual adult homosexuality with child exploitation and abuse, ...frankly, your view *says* that people who are messed up *might as well* abuse kids as grow up and develop a responsible, loving, honest, and functional adult sexuality: as you so amply demonstrate, you think they're the same.

Your view gives these people every *incentive* to use the shadows and shame and ignorance and scorn to *hide from reality* and push all the scorn for what they do onto someone else. Including the victims.

You kind of revealed yourself below, when you got all out of control calling LBGT people who have harmed no one all those horrible things, and expressing *indignance* that your God might throw you in your Hell for being a hater and perpetrating injustice *instead* of gays.

It shows you're not interested in following your own Christ, but rather, I guess, looking at your God and saying, "Sure, I hated, lied, defamed, and bore false witness against the innocent, fed hate speech and armed queer-bashers with false righteousness, but I think *they* are worse, throw them in the fire instead of me, whatever I do!*

Is that how Christianity's supposed to work? Salvation by sacrificing others?

(Talk about your much-decried moral relativism.)

And you wonder why people have no interest in what you say.

This isn't about your 'right' to accuse and 'punish' people who have done nothing wrong, nor to use the means of deception, hatred, and injustice.

This is about the fact that whatever you think of the world or the people in it, that gay marriage is a *benefit* to people and society.

All you care about is feeling 'righteous' about frothing.

That's not life, it's not America, and I don't think it's the point of *your* religion, either.

There you go again, trying to associate LBGT people with criminals and 'perverts,' ...and say that apparently people who believe the horrible things you've said, (including quotes from a dubious ten-year old study meant to smear gay people for what's not true about AIDS)

...to say that somehow, hate crimes bills promote crimes.

*You* may not be able to tell the difference between gay people and criminals, but I assure you, the law, and the hate crimes bill can.

IN REPLY TO PAGAN PLACE:

BOY PROSTITUTION--“INTERGAY” HATE CRIMES AGAINST BOYS 10
“Gay Men View These Boys As Recreational

http://www.drjudithreisman.org/hatecrimes.html

Hence, this "sexual orientation" bill forces acceptance of sexual felons as well as other deviants, including sado-masochists, necrophiles, pederasts, pedophiles, zoophiles, hebephiles and similar populations. All of these sexual "orientations" have their own publications, internet sites and organizational structures.

COLORADODOG |
POSTED BY:
JUNE 16, 2009 8:21

WHERE ARE THE ARRESTS OF THOUSANDS
OF MEN WHO GIVE AIDS TO BOYS?
By
Judith A. Reisman, PhD1

http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/HOMOSEXUALITY%20IS%20HETEROPHOBIA.pdf

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
June 16, 2009 2:35 PM

ANS:
Yes that is funny, it should have read divorce. As to hatred it’s the common defense of those who can’t defend the untrue.

Unfortunately, it is the homophile who harbors all the hatred because truth hurts when you live in the darkness.

“A massive historic, cross cultural, and literary literature exists on the child sexual abuse etiology and the role of absent/and/or brutalizing parents in the crafting of heterophobic males and females.

The Advocate itself provided a 21% child sexual abuse admission rate among its male readers on August 23, 1994—SUGGESTING THAT THE REAL RATE COULD BE DOUBLE, ESPECIALLY SINCE THE MAGAZINE DID NOT INCLUDE ABUSE DATA ON BOYS OVER 15-YEARS-OF AGE!

“This author’s additional research in this area included a content analysis of the biographies of 150 famous homosexuals which yielded a rate of 67% involving manboy sex2. It is similarly typical that early abuse victims tend to similarly victimize boys at about the same age of their own abuse.

Moreover, recent research confirms that the early trauma of child abuse, not only alters the chemistry of the brain but, studies have shown, “puts people at higher risk for developing depression, anxiety disorders and other emotional illnesses later in life.”

According to the studies ohomosexual/heterophobic health, these emotional imbalances typify the homosexual person, commonly resulting in alcohol and drug abuse—the second most severe health issue among homosexual/heterophobic males (after AIDS) and lesbians (after cancer).

3 The child abuse study appears in The Journal of the American Medical Association with this caveat: “the research also underlined the importance of
addressing child abuse nationally. More than three million cases of child abuse are reported
each year….this is a very large public health problem."

4 Hence, increasing child access further to heterosexually phobic, predatory men and women in educational institutions is wholly unacceptable.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
COLORADODOG
POSTED ON: JUNE 16, 2009 1:58 PM

IRT;
“You didn't answer my question about your statement that all who engages in gay sex get AIDS. Does this mean all your pedophiles have AIDS, too, or are they one of your convenient exceptions?”

ANS:
You seem to be jumping to conclusions again. The pedophiles aren't mine. You can't protect gays and complain about pedophiles.

I never said all who engages in gay sex get AIDS. I quoted the report that says, “Two-thirds of all the AIDS cases in the U.S. are the direct result of homosexual conduct. Homosexual young people are twenty-three times more likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) than their heterosexual counterparts. In San Francisco, the sexually transmitted disease rate is twenty -two times higher than the national average.”

What exceptions are you talking about. Homophile priest are .25 percent of all priest in the last 30 years. In the New York Schools its five percent. Evidently, that doesn’t matter to you; it’s just the priest you care about. Not to mention that 1.5 to 2.5 % of the population carry some 50% of STDs in the nation. If that doesn’t tell you anything than nothing will.

Did you read this link. If you didn’t then it is indicative of your impulsive questions.

http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/CALIF%20HEARING5.pdf

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
COLORADODOG
POSTED ON: JUNE 16, 2009 1:58 PM

IRT:
“So you are admitting he is still a priest and saying the mighty Catholic church can't locate a priest who is saying mass in its Churches? Are you saying the bishops under Rivera are still playing "pass the pervert" (aka "health and family problems") without his knowledge?”

ANS:
First, you know little if anything about priesthood. Once a priest, you’re always a priest. Even after you die, you maintain the same indelible mark on your soul. The only thing the diocese can do is pull the plug on his authority to operate in the diocese. He evidently is operating without authority, since his presence is not known.

Pass the pervert is your insidious thoughtless and reckless mordant rhetoric. If the Church did to you, being in the same position of the priest, what you want it to do to this priest you’d be going out of your mind. If the Church arrested you, and the Pope condemned you without a hearing or trial, you’d be screaming your head off. However, that’s what you want the Church to do to this priest, because you have no sense of what you’ve said.

Carrera has all his people looking for this character and telling him to come in, that’s about all they can legally do. The Church is not the police. Evidently, the Mexican Police could care less. This isn’t a Church matter; it’s a police matter. Even the victim is taking a civil suit out because the police will do nothing.

Gotta laugh about this one, though:

"About 50% of marriages end in abortion and we are about to allow gay marriages if Obama has anything to do with it."

I don't think you'll have to worry about too many gay marriages ending in abortion, there. :)

From circular logic to revealing the bald-faced hatred, TT. Think you're the one who ought to be worried about moving down in the world.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
“CIRCULAR?”
POSTED ON JUNE 16, 2009 11:04 AM

IRT:
“Anyway, you're just repeating things already addressed, at this point. Don't even bother bringing up Paul, the man obviously had serious issues, and obviously is not saying the same things as the Jesus he claimed to be representing, even within your own book.”

ANS:
I don’t think the Church’s number one Evangelist is contradicting Jesus. Again, where are you getting these weird facts at from Saddam’s PR man Bagdad Bob. American tanks were coming up behind him while he was saying Saddam had the Americans on the run.

IRT:
“You can claim no moral authority when you're trying to encourage hatred and fear and injustice and call it 'holy.' It's nonsense. Anyway. Speaking of circular, this discussion's going around in circles at this point.”

ANS:
I think you’re paranoid, what is spreading fear and injustice? Can you show it instead of making these lugubrious remarks that have no substance?

As to moral authority, what do you claim is moral authority if not the word of God? Thomas Jefferson once said, “If not the Church, to whom do we go for our ethics and morality?” They based the whole Constitution on our Judeo-Christian heritage. Unfortunately, the Courts believe they have the moral authority to trump God, the Natural Law, and the Natural Moral Law.

The Court said the “Ten Commandments” might corrupt the minds of little children. Let’s see you prove that the Commandments are facetious nonsense, that the Corporal Works of Mercy and the Beatitudes are empty rhetoric. Stalin thought so; Idi Amine, Mao, and Kim Jong Il and Pol Pot thought Christianity was the opium of the masses.

Our injudicious Court agrees with you. They opened the gates of Hell and we have murdered our posterity and progenies to the tune of over 50,000, 000 unborn.

The Court has created a new industry, selling the flesh of the aborted. They’ve elevated “gay-sex” to conjugal love. About 50% of marriages end in abortion and we are about to allow gay marriages if Obama has anything to do with it.

IRT TIWSY

"Aguilar the priest is on the run living in a car and supposedly saying Mass in rural areas of Mexico and not even Cardinal Rivera knows where this priest is."

____________________________

So you are admitting he is still a priest and saying the mighty Catholic church can't locate a priest who is saying mass in its Churches? Are you saying the bishops under Rivera are still playing "pass the pervert" (aka "health and family problems") without his knowledge?

You didn't answer my question about your statement that all who engage in gay sex get AIDS.
Does this mean all your pedophiles have AIDS, too, or are they one of your convenient exceptions?

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
“CIRCULAR?”
POSTED ON JUNE 16, 2009 11:04 AM

[Do you know what circular logic is? Explain what is circular and why.]

“I think I showed it pretty clearly, under your latest spam, here. Your book says it is the will of the god in the book, you're basing all the 'authority' on something that's solely self-referential: using that book as its own argument from authority.”

ANS:
I think you are having a problem with baiting the question, or circular argument.

To quote from a History book is not circular. Or if I use a map to show United States on it is not circular. The assumptions are the references are based on authority. The same is with the Scripture.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-metaphysics/#SubMatAriMet

http://www.numeraire.com/download/WhatIsCircularReasoning.pdf

The fallacy of circular reasoning occurs when the conclusion of an argument is essentially the same as one of the premises in the argument. Circular reasoning is an inference drawn from a premise that includes the conclusion, and used to prove the conclusion Definitions of words are circular reasoning, but they are not inference. Inference is the deriving of a conclusion in logic by either induction or deduction. Circular reasoning can be quite subtle, can be obfuscated when intentional and thus can be difficult to detect.

Now show where the reasoning is the same as the conclusion. Quoting from Scripture is not circular. Saying Scripture is without error because it is the word of God is also not circular.

The Scriptures do not say God is Omnipotent or Omniscient. God is Omnipotent because he is God, viz. His Essence is His Existence.

Hence it follow that a being who is Omniscient doesn’t lie since he would have to contradict Himself and Truth, who is God, cannot contradict Truth. If you reject that assumption, you reject the First principle of thought, viz. the principle of contradiction.

Quoting from Scripture that Jesus endowed the Church with infallibility is not self evident in itself. What is assumed is Jesus is God, which has been proven by His works and Miracles and not just in Scripture.

As to the veracity of His Miracles, they were witness to by thousands who recorded them. Now unless you can, over 2,000 years later, show they were liars or all were delusional, then do so.

That the Church is infallible, is also not self-evident, but rest upon the authority of God The Church has two sources of God’s truth, Scripture and Tradition.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
“CIRCULAR?”
POSTED ON JUNE 16, 2009 11:04 AM

[Do you know what circular logic is? Explain what is circular and why.]

“I think I showed it pretty clearly, under your latest spam, here. Your book says it is the will of the god in the book, you're basing all the 'authority' on something that's solely self-referential: using that book as its own argument from authority.”

ANS:
I think you are having a problem with baiting the question, or circular argument.

To quote from a History book is not circular. Or if I use a map to show United States on it is not circular. The assumptions are the references are based on authority. The same is with the Scripture.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-metaphysics/#SubMatAriMet

http://www.numeraire.com/download/WhatIsCircularReasoning.pdf

The fallacy of circular reasoning occurs when the conclusion of an argument is essentially the same as one of the premises in the argument. Circular reasoning is an inference drawn from a premise that includes the conclusion, and used to prove the conclusion.

Definitions of words are circular reasoning, but they are not inference. Inference is the deriving of a conclusion in logic by either induction or deduction. Circular reasoning can be quite subtle, can be obfuscated when intentional and thus can be difficult to detect.

Now show where the reasoning is the same as the conclusion. Quoting from Scripture is not circular. Saying Scripture is without error because it is the word of God is also not circular.

The Scriptures do not say God is Omnipotent or Omniscient. God is Omnipotent because he is God, viz. His Essence is His Existence.

Hence it follow that a being who is Omniscient doesn’t lie since he would have to contradict Himself and Truth, who is God, cannot contradict Truth. If you reject that assumption, you reject the First principle of thought, viz. the principle of contradiction.

Quoting from Scripture that Jesus endowed the Church with infallibility is not self evident in itself. What is assumed is Jesus is God, which has been proven by His works and Miracles and not just in Scripture.

As to the veracity of His Miracles, they were witness to by thousands who recorded them. Now unless you can, over 2,000 years later, show they were liars or all were delusional, then do so.

That the Church is infallible, is also not self-evident, but rest upon the authority of God The Church has two sources of God’s truth, Scripture and Tradition.

COLORADODOG |
POSTED BY: COLORADODOG |
POSTED ON JUNE 16, 2009 8:21

“Jesus, if there is a Hell, it would be spending eternity with TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2.”

ANS:
Yes, in the alternate world, abortionists, pedophiles, active homophiles, and their advocates all go to Heaven doing the heroic work of God. Hence, one Jewish Rabbi, on this Forum, said Tiller should be honored as a hero.

Us poor Christians will all be in Hell for persecution Abortionist Pedophiles, Androphobia Lesbians, Prostitutes and Sexual Manic Tri-gender Perverts. You might try reading this link before your leap to your impulsive thinking

http://www.drjudithreisman.com/archives/CALIF%20HEARING5.pdf

Consequently you've impulsively did it again. You never answered why you blame the Pope for a cover-up for not disciplining two Cardinals, Carrera and Mahoney, when there are no charges against either Cardinal.

Aguilar the priest is on the run living in a car and supposedly saying Mass in rural areas of Mexico and not even Cardinal Rivera knows where this priest is.

Aguilar was confronted by the LA Archdiocese and he took off for Mexico. Mahoney didn’t aid him as far as anyone knows. Mahoney sent a letter to Cardinal Carrera to have Aguilar arrested.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/21/world/americas/21mexico.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1161489600&en=46d6b33f969d3a71&ei=5094&partner=homepage

"Do you know what circular logic is? Explain what is circular and why."

I think I showed it pretty clearly, under your latest spam, here. Your book says it is the will of the god in the book, you're basing all the 'authority' on something that's solely self-referential: using that book as its own argument from authority.

It's logically untenable.

Anyway, you're just repeating things already addressed, at this point. Don't even bother bringing up Paul, the man obviously had serious issues, and obviously is not saying the same things as the Jesus he claimed to be representing, even within your own book.

You can claim no moral authority when you're trying to encourage hatred and fear and injustice and call it 'holy.' It's nonsense.

Anyway. Speaking of circular, this discussion's going around in circles at this point.

Religious mania explained just below -

http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/drblicotsbombshell.htm

IN REPL TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
“MARRIAGE”
POSTED ON JUNE 15, 2009 11:32 AM

HOMOSEXUALITY AND MARRIAGE:

"Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, traditions has always declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are contrary to natural law . . . . Under no circumstances can they be approved . . . .

Homosexual persons are called to chastity not to Marriage. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom and retains their sacredness and dignity. (CCC 2357, 2359).

St. Paul uses homosexual behavior as an example of the blindness that has overcome humankind. Instead of the original harmony between Creator and creatures, the acute distortion of idolatry has led to all kinds of moral excess. Paul is at a loss to find a clearer example of this disharmony than homosexual relations.

“To chose someone of the same sex for one's sexual activity is to annul the rich symbolism and meaning, not to mention the goals, of the Creator's sexual design. Homosexual activity is not a complementary union, able to transmit life; and so it thwarts the call to a life of that form of self-giving which the Gospel says is the essence of Christian living. This does not mean that homosexual persons are not often generous and giving of themselves; but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent.

As in every moral disorder, homosexual activity prevents one's own fulfillment and happiness by acting contrary to the creative wisdom of God. The Church, in rejecting erroneous opinions regarding homosexuality, does not limit but rather defends personal freedom and dignity realistically and authentically understood.”

IN REPL TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
ONE GOD
POSTED ON JUNE 15, 2009 11:32 AM

IRT:
[In addition, God instituted the Church and crowned it with infallibility in its teachings of Faith and Morals.]

“So you claim. I ain't seeing it. That whole 'you shall be known by your fruits' bit. Maybe you forgot *that.*

ANS:
Well you aren’t seeing something. These are the fruits of gay sex, AIDS, HIV infections, STDs, Deaths, Suicides, Pedophilia and Pederasty are all the corollaries of Homosexual acts. What social good has gay sex wrought? I would think that anyone with common sense could figure it out. Homosexual acts are part of the Sexual Revolution that has generated the Culture of Death. These things don’t normally happen to those who keep the Commandments.

IRT:
[No one is doing an injustice and harm to gay people but gay people.]"

“Yeah, that's what abusers always say, "I'm not doing this to you, you are."Bullfeathers.
And you lie. I'm not the one with reason to fear your Jesus or your God.

ANS:
Yes, Sodom and Gomorrah didn’t fear him; Ramsey the Pharaoh didn’t fear him until he lost all his army. Noah’s people laughed at God and they all drowned.

Homosexual activist are the major abusers of them selves, when they give in to the wiles of their concupiscence and inordinate passions. Of course, there are perverts who abuse others; they are also a part of the existing social distortions. They are homophobe bigots. Nonetheless, homophiles patently do more harm to themselves and society than any bigot could ever do. Namely, death from AIDS is caused by gay sex,

It is said, “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me, if I am in the good graces of my Creator. Hence, St. Augustine said, “First love God with all your strength, all your mind, and all your soul, then go out and do anything you wish.”

While homophiles may not choose their desires, they do have the ability to choose whether they act on those desires, just as an alcoholic has the choice of whether to act on his desire to get drunk, just as an erotic heterosexual rapist has the ability to refuse to act on his impulses.

Second, if you don’t believe in my God, you don’t believe in the only true God. There is no gender in God. God the Father is a designation that explains God’s relationship to man that man may understand God’s love for him.

Third, what lies are you talking about? If anything, the homosexual, who commits illicit sex, deceives himself in respect to the justification of his illicitness.

Jesus, if there is a Hell, it would be spending eternity with TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2

IRT His Holiness TTW who typically generalizes by saying "Those who engage in gay sex are dying from AIDS, an excruciating depressing disease; 26 million are dead. Thirty-five million worldwide are infected with HIV, and some are committing suicide, but they still don’t believe gay sex is evil. They can’t see the truth but blame others for their ignominious indiscretions."

How many of the cases you cited are among heterosexuals? How can you generalize and demonize that all "Those who engage in gay sex are dying from AIDS" You don't think there are any gays in the world that are not dying of AIDS?

Your words reveal your true heart and not the love of Christ you falsely profess while judging and condemning others (even though your Jesus taught you not to

Can we generalize, in the name of Jesus, that all your clergy engage in gay sex with children? Would all of them be dying of AIDS, too?

May God bless you with gay children, grandchildren or nieces and nephews to open your cold closed Catholic heart.
It worked for Cheney so there's hope for you as well.

IN REPL TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
ONE GOD
POSTED ON JUNE 15, 2009 11:32 AM

"ANS:
[There is only one God; He is also your God, like it or not. Their disbelief is causing all their problems.]

IRT:
“If the Great Goddess and your God are the same being, then, who are you to call *me* a disbeliever?”

ANS:
“Multiple Gods” is a contradiction. For multiple Gods to exist there would have to be a difference between them, but there are no differences in God; His essence is His existence; He is pure Actuality.

IRT:
Or is it just *you* you don't want anyone disbelieving in? Cause all I see out of Christianity is you.
“There's a reason for that. You've based your 'authority' on circular logic.

ANS:
Of course, that explains your confusion. Try using this link below so you know what you’re complaining about.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm

Do you know what circular logic is? Explain what is circular and why.

"If no one knew the will of God they couldn’t be held responsible for offenses against God. That’s quite irrational."

IRT:
"God revealed to the Jewish nation His will in a specific manner."

“I'm not exactly Jewish in this lifetime, am I?”

ANS:
Jesus said to Pilate, “Why do you say I am a King?” Pilate said, “Am I a Jew? Your people told me that.”

Then Pilate said, “Why are you here?” Jesus said, “I come to be a witness to truth.” “Truth” said Pilate, “What is Truth?” Pilate was looking at Truth and he could not see it. He disowned the affair and sent an innocent man to death to please evil men.

Truth is dreadful and frightening when a person lives a lie all there life then suddenly discovers it. In the famous novel of Victor Hugo’s “Les Miserables,” Javert, the nemesis of Jean Valjean finds he has lived his whole life based on the strict letter of the law. In the end, he finds his whole life was based on a lie, and he commits suicide.

God revealed His Commandments and His will to the Jews that all might believe in God. The Egyptians weren’t Jews either but they believed after God destroyed the Pharaoh’s whole army. No one believed God but Noah and they all drowned. Sodom and Gomorrah I don’t believe were Jews but they but they got the message too late.

Those who engage in gay sex are dying from AIDS, an excruciating depressing disease; 26 million are dead. Thirty-five million worldwide are infected with HIV, and some are committing suicide, but they still don’t believe gay sex is evil. They can’t see the truth but blame others for their ignominious indiscretions.

(BTW, what I *meant* to say to TT-stringofletters below, is 'all I see out of *your* Christianity' is you.

Obviously, I've seen other things from other Christians.

"ANS:
There is only one God; He is also your God, like it or not. Their disbelief is causing all their problems."

If the Great Goddess and your God are the same being, then, who are you to call *me* a disbeliever?

Or is it just *you* you don't want anyone disbelieving in? Cause all I see out of Christianity is you.

"If no one knew the will of God they couldn’t be held responsible for offenses against God. That’s quite irrational."

There's a reason for that. You've based your 'authority' on circular logic.

" God revealed to the Jewish nation His will in a specific manner."

I'm not exactly Jewish in this lifetime, am I?

"In addition, God instituted the Church and crowned it with infallibility in its teachings of Faith and Morals."

So you claim. I ain't seeing it. That whole 'you shall be known by your fruits' bit. Maybe you forgot *that.*

"ANS:
No one is doing an injustice and harm to gay people but gay people."

Yeah, that's what abusers always say, "I'm not doing this to you, you are."

Bullfeathers.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
POSTED ON: | JUNE 14, 2009 6:02 PM

IRT:
“You're the one being arrogant, thinking you can divine the will of your God, calling anyone who disagrees.... including all the real science and statistics, not to mention the real life experiences of real queer people... 'sick,' so you can claim that your 'God' is smart enough to agree with 'you.'
Your accusations are lies, and your threats of Hells are irrelevant.”

ANS:
There is only one God; He is also your God, like it or not. Their disbelief is causing all their problems.

If no one knew the will of God they couldn’t be held responsible for offenses against God. That’s quite irrational. God revealed to the Jewish nation His will in a specific manner. You might read the Decalogue or the Commandments. Then the Son of God came and gave us the Beatitudes and the Corporal Works of Mercy. Evidently, you’ve never read them or have forgotten them.

In addition, God instituted the Church and crowned it with infallibility in its teachings of Faith and Morals. Notwithstanding, God gave man a conscience and an intellect so that man may reason to all the good things God has given man even though Adam screwed up everything by thinking he was equal to God.

IRT:
“This is *injustice* and *harm* you are trying to do to people. If you believe gay people shouldn't exist, doing these harms and injustices won't help you.
They only make you bear false witness.
You have no credibility.”

ANS:
No one is doing an injustice and harm to gay people but gay people. Over 26 million have died from what gay sex has wrought. Often they are infecting innocent people as a beautiful 24-year-old woman testified to in Congress after she became infected with AIDS from her dentist because he never wore gloves. She died weeks after her testimony.

Over 35 million people worldwide have HIV. Those are stats that come from HHS, the British government and the DOJ. who sponsored an $800,000 research project by Judith Risen. If they are lies, then your complaint is with the British and American government.

Again the Catholic Dream program in Africa is assisting thousands of AID and HIV victims at no cost to the victims. Thanks to the volunteers who attempt to save the lives of these poor people at the risk of their own.

Who ever told you gay people shouldn’t exist. That shows the emotionalism and lack of rationalism of you defense of this destructive anomaly.

OK, TT (string of letters...)

"It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs."

Then what the Hel have you been doing for the past several days on this *thread?* Constantly trying to assault the character of all gay people in order to bring about the very discrimination you say the Church is all against?

Do you know the results of the hate-speech you and the Church promulgate, particularly *your* malicious claims that 'homosexuals are disease, they're serial killers, they're not as human as we,'

That may as well be out of Hitler's 'The Eternal Jew' just with LBGT people switched in for Jews: comparisons have been made directly between the claims made about them and what you make about gay people. Spurious 'studies' and all.

"Instead of being called to Marriage, Homosexual persons are called to Chastity for the perfection of their moral and physical life and their eternal happiness."

That line is *BS.* You can't tell someone else what their 'vocation' is in life.

You're *teaching* violence and hatred, abuse and repression, then absolving yourself of the responsibility by taking it upon yourself to claim your unreason is what "God wants."

There are other religions, and other views of yours. Better-considered ones than that.

I *went* to Catholic schools, and I've *seen* the fruits of these 'teachings' of yours. Out there in the real world. Hear your words on the lips of all manner of violent and hateful characters, including those who get it in their heads that gays are so bad, it's OK to do whatever they want to us, including rape us as though that'll teach some 'lesson.'

I got a belly full of the 'fruits' of your hate and its 'justifications.'

You quote these things from your Church, but you don't use them to teach against the violence and hatred and civil injustice, you use them to try and *dehumanize* gay people. *Justify* what's unjust, and *arrogate* to yourself commanding people as if it were the will of the only 'God' in the universe.

That God's too damn small for me, man.

I've seen better.

Your own people will never develop healthy sexuality if all you want to do is bury anyone who has a glimmer of what might be same-sex attraction under shame and loneliness and scorn and 'celibacy' they *aren't* called to.

No good can come of such fundamental dishonesty.

MARRIAGE IS AN INSTITUTION CREATED BY GOD.

To chose someone of the same sex for one's sexual activity is to annul the rich symbolism and meaning, not to mention the goals, of the Creator's sexual design. Homosexual activity is not a complementary union, able to transmit life; and so it thwarts the call to a life of that form of self-giving which the Gospel says is the essence of Christian living. This does not mean that homosexual persons are not often generous and giving of themselves; but when they engage in homosexual activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination which is essentially self-indulgent.

As in every moral disorder, homosexual activity prevents one's own fulfillment and happiness by acting contrary to the creative wisdom of God. The Church, in rejecting erroneous opinions regarding homosexuality, does not limit but rather defends personal freedom and dignity realistically and authentically understood.

One tactic used is to protest that any and all criticism of or reservations about homosexual people, their activity and lifestyle, are simply diverse forms of unjust discrimination Even when the practice of homosexuality may seriously threaten the lives and well-being of a large number of people, its advocates remain undeterred and refuse to consider the magnitude of the risks involved.

It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs. It reveals a kind of disregard for others, which endangers the most fundamental principles of a healthy society. The intrinsic dignity of each person must always be respected

MARRIAGE AND HOMOSEXUALITY

The ultimate fruit of sexuality is the creation of human life through acts proper to a man and woman in marriage.

“The laws of nature so ordained by God dictate that there is a natural psychological and physical complementarity between man and woman, which is ordered toward exclusivity in marriage where the man and woman mutually support each other and find their crowning glory in procreation.”

To claim that homosexuals have a right to marry makes as much sense as a person living in a straw house trying to put a fire out by pouring gasoline on the fire. Gay marriage is a contradiction of human nature.

It is written, “The Truth will set you free.” Marriage of gays is not a truth but a contradiction of the Natural and Moral Law (NML). Instead of marriage perfecting the homosexual, it is a denigration of the dignity and sanctity of one’s human nature..

“Homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. The persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition"—Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC 2358).

Instead of being called to Marriage, Homosexual persons are called to Chastity for the perfection of their moral and physical life and their eternal happiness. “By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.”—CCC

However, no one can persevere in a continuous virtuous life unless they continuously call on God to succor to them in his trials and needs through God’s love and graces.

Hence, it is written, "with man nothing is possible; with God all things are possible," and anyone who ever fled to His protection was never left unaided, even though their sins were great and many.

Really. I think I've got a simpler answer: Christian conservatives do the hating, the bashing, the shooting up of innocent people believing they know the 'Will of God' and are the ones being oppressed when people don't kneel to *their* oppressions.

The vast... overwhelming majority of *all* the crimes you try to blame on 'homosexuality' to make people hate and fear us occur in context *of* homophobia, repression, denial, and internalized hatred that *you* demand.

And even those pale in comparison to what straights do, if you want to get accusatory and think that's even *relevant* to the topic, which it is not.

Equality in marriage leads to *more* stability, *more* honesty, *more* responsibility: with ourselves, our partners, and our communities, and for a lot of people who suffer under your hatreds *more* reason to act as though there'll be a tomorrow.

And, yes. Better health.

Places which are more friendly to gay marriage have the lowest rates of divorce and domestic abuse. People who think hurting and demeaning and demonizing queer folks *is good,* like you, have the highest.

Rather than try and construct elaborate arguments mixed as necessary with blind faith, threats, promises and lies, what if it's simpler?

Queer people exist. Are Americans. Good people. Who live and love through very messed up situations of your manufacture.

(Including the AIDS that the Fundies were *cheering on as 'God's Judgment on Gays' (until even they had to admit that straights are the prime vector for AIDS transmission) * rather than doing anything about the disease (but condemn gay people) while it became widespread.

No, I think it's simpler. We're all here. All human, and all Americans.

Equality, now.

TT, non-peer-reviewed 'Studies' made by conservative think tanks and the like for the express purpose of 'justifying' homohobia, hatred, and lies, ....for you to further 'interpret' to 'confirm your hate-speech, don't prove anything about my life, or stand up in any way to proper science that stands up to reality.

You're accusing a class of people of being by nature criminals.

I don't *need* to think I'm smarter than the God *you* claim to know the will of, to know reality.

And also to know a scam.

You're the one being arrogant, thinking you can divine the will of your God, calling anyone who disagrees.... including all the real science and statistics, not to mention the real life experiences of real queer people... 'sick,' so you can claim that your 'God' is smart enough to agree with 'you.'

Your accusations are lies, and your threats of Hells are irrelevant.

This is *injustice* and *harm* you are trying to do to people. If you believe gay people shouldn't exist, doing these harms and injustices won't help you.

They only make you bear false witness.

You have no credibility.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE |
POSTED ON: JUNE 13, 2009 11:51

IRT:
“Predators are *often* publicly homophobic cause it isolates and disempowers and silences their *victims.* Pedophiles, again, are *vastly* more likely to be heterosexually-identified, whatever the sex of their victims. It's about *control.*

ANS:
Baldwin is the executive director of the Council for National Policy in Washington, D.C.

“Overwhelming evidence supports the belief that homosexuality is a sexual deviancy often accompanied by disorders that have dire consequences for our culture," wrote Steve Baldwin in, "Child Molestation and the Homosexual Movement," soon to be published by the Regent University Law Review.

Though the homosexual community and much of the media scoff at such accusations, Baldwin – who chaired the California Assembly's Education committee, where he fought against support for the homosexual agenda in the state's public schools – says in his report that homosexual activists' "efforts to target children both for their own sexual pleasure and to enlarge the homosexual movement" constitute an "unmistakable" attack on "the family unit."

Baldwin's research is substantiated in a recently completed body of work written by Dr. Judith Reisman, president of the Institute for Media Education. She is the author of numerous authoritative books debunking sexual myths, including "Kinsey, Crimes & Consequences."

In her thesis – also written for the Regent University Law Review – Reisman cited psychologist Eugene Abel, whose research found that homosexuals "sexually molest young boys with an incidence that is occurring from five times greater than the molestation of girls. …"

"Abel’s data of 150.2 boys abused per male homosexual offender finds no equal (yet) in heterosexual violations of 19.8 girls." Abel also found that non-incarcerated "child molesters admitted from 23.4 to 281.7 acts per offender … whose targets were males."

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
POSTED | JUNE 14, 2009

IRT:
“In fact, as I just mentioned, it's *LBGT people* who pay taxes and insurance premiums for rights and protections heterosexuals enjoy but we cannot.”

ANS:
You have ever right that heterosexuals have, but you’re asking for more. You want a right that nobody has except the maligned States that have granted to defy the Natural Law.

IRT:
“See, TT, you're just using your Christianity as an excuse to claim people are 'bad' and therefore 'deserve' marginalizing in our own country, paying *our* taxes to support rights for *you* that we're denied ourselves.”

ANS:
I believe you’re being a little paranoid. The statistics are from Health and Human Services and the Justice Department. Judith Riesman has done an $800,000 Justice Department research report and California Assembly's Education chaired John Baldwin. There’s nothing mentioned about religion.

Of course, the one who created you did give you a human nature so you may think and reason and come to rational judgments. However, if you think the one who created you doesn’t know what he’s doing so be it. A lot of people think they’re a lot more wiser than He is. They can’t seem to figure out that their wrong when they see all those who believe like they do are becoming infected with STDs and AIDS and may dying and many with HIV. It’s not criticism that causing these tragedies it their behavior.

No one is denigrating homosexuality; if they are then they are no better than a fool. Critics have a just concern about AIDS, Children being molested, STDS, and Abortion. Immorality begets immorality. It’s not just a coincidence that nine of the ten top serial killers are gay, or fifty percent of sexually transmitted diseases are carried by 1.5 to 2.5 percent of the population. That innocent people are dying from being infected by AIDS victims.

If you didn’t notice, Catholics are at the forefront of aiding AIDS and STD victims. You just might check out the Catholic “Dream” program and Catholic Charities for a starter.

Marginalizing people is not good for their health, or anyone's. But you don't care about *that,* you just want to call people 'dirty.'

ANS:
It's not the person who is dirty; it's what they do. It's like taking a Cadillac and carrying garbage in it and using half water in the gas tank and complaining their car isn't running right.

The only person that is discriminating against you is yourself. Change your lifestyle and you won’t have a problem. That’s what kleptomaniacs, arsonists, and anyone else with a dysfunctional disorder have to do.

Just cause you interpret everything *backwards,* TT, doesn't make it any more true when you *repeat* your smears over and over.

In fact, as I just mentioned, it's *LBGT people* who pay taxes and insurance premiums for rights and protections heterosexuals enjoy but we cannot.

Gays are *in* the military and always have been, working fighting and dying and not enjoying the very freedoms they fight for, and often not getting the benefits.... A general discharge or the stockade for their pains if outed. A life of hiding if not.

That's not freedom, liberty, fairness, or equality. And don't give me this 'unit cohesion' thing, they're often required to serve out their combat tours and *then* receive a general discharge for serving honorably.

This is about none of your excuses and smears and fearmongerings. This is about your hatred of a class of Americans.

The vast majority of serial killers are straight, let's not forget. And, of course, the vast majority of LBGT people are, as the AMA and APA found out, perfectly mentally-healthy. Though many are stressed and traumatized unnecessarily by homophobia and injustice, of course.

Dahmer was obviously a psychotic. But even most schizophrenics are non-violent. I'm sure the shape of *his* psychosis came from sexual *repression,* not 'permissiveness.' Certainly not something 'inherent to homosexuals.'

(Again so much for claims we aren't an 'identifiable minority,' since you claim there's something biologically-inherent to us, even if that thing is preposterously-untrue.)

Actually, the more religiously-conservative you are, the more likely *your* marriage will end up broken.

Wonder why that is: maybe conservative Christians think they're 'entitled' to something that's just gonna drop out of the sky.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE |
POSTED ON: JUNE 13, 2009 11:51

IRT:
If you're worried about *serial* killers, TT.
Well, *consider* the case of Dahmer. Who were his victims? Gay youth. Those cast out and scorned and vulnerable *because* of what you're doing.

ANS:
Shouldn’t everyone be concerned about serial killers? The point was this, something is disturbing and they are indicative of the distortions of human nature, that are inherent in homosexuality, not withstanding the violence they portend, the destruction homosexuals unwittingly do to themselves, and to others, and what gay sex generates into, such as NAMBLA. Violence is another factor, and we just witnessed it in California’s vote on gay marriage, and their assault on Churches

Now gays want into the Military, to burden them with their sex orientations and diseases that the gay sex proffers.

Discrimination and scorn goes both ways. Gay Sex threatens the institute of Marriage and its sanctity. Marriage is the foundation of all societies, and the guardian of the fruits of conjugal love, children.

The gay’s facetious cacophony of equal rights is sophomoric propaganda, and insidiously irrational. Homosexuals have every right, ascribed to Heterosexuals; specifically neither can marry the same sex.

The very nature of a man and woman are testimony that homosexuality is an aberration against human nature, and society. What God has ordained as "natural" sexuality" is made profane by gay sex.

Nature has rejected homophile sex -based on its abject unhealthiness and its bondage to an "unnatural" vice. The critics of gay sex didn’t cause the nefarious statistics of STDS and AIDS that plagues the homophile. Some 26 million people have died of AIDS and 35 million have HIV. Even more, to be blind to the consequences is unconscious homophile nescience.

Further, notwithstanding the obscene militancy of the gay movement and the salubrious financial burden it places on our society, gays are forcing their indoctrination into the curriculum of Public School.

Consequently, the mental deterioration of the American Psychiatric Association has caused it to removed homosexuality from the official manual that lists mental and emotional disorders, while gays are inordinately committing hara-kari and social anarchism throughout the nation.

See, TT, you're just using your Christianity as an excuse to claim people are 'bad' and therefore 'deserve' marginalizing in our own country, paying *our* taxes to support rights for *you* that we're denied ourselves.

Marginalizing people is not good for their health, or anyone's.

But you don't care about *that,* you just want to call people 'dirty.'

The statistics are spurious, anyway. Actually, the vast majority of AIDS transmitters are heterosexuals or heterosexually-identified: a major factor is in fact closeted men who do as you demand and marry straight women for cover from your hatred, then go off for ashamed and anonymous gay sex, then bring it home to their wives without using protection.

AIDS remains an issue, especially among poorer gay men, but not like you say. Economics are a big factor, as with any group.

And denying gay people equal marriage rights is supposed to stop AIDS *how?*

And why does your hatred of gay marriage extend to *lesbian* couples? We have the *lowest* rates of AIDS and STDs of *all* orientations, but you still want to call us 'disease-carrying.'

It's hate propaganda, all of it.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
CALSAILOR
POSTED ON: JUNE 13, 2009 12:37 PM

IRT:
“You quote the most outlandish "statistics" without any citations. So, they must be made up... Same with quotations (I assume you are intending those paragraphs identified with " at the beginning as quotations. Again, no identification. Not even a claim as to authorship, let alone a text citation. Therefore, they, too must be made up.”

ANS:
I believe these references have been shown before, but here they are again.

"According to the British Journal of Sexual Medicine and The HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services: ‘Homosexuals carry one-half of the country's syphilis, although they are only 1.5 to 2.5 of the population, and are fourteen times more likely to have had the disease than heterosexuals.

Two-thirds of all the AIDS cases in the U.S. are the direct result of homosexual conduct. Homosexual young people are twenty-three times more likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) than their heterosexual counterparts. In San Francisco, the sexually transmitted disease rate is twenty -two times higher than the national average.”

Homosexuality In God's Eyes

Copyright (c) 1997-2002 Zenith Harris Merrill.

http://www.bloomington.in.us/~lgthscac/homosexualityingod'seyes.htm

arcadiolahttp://www.chefdansculinaryadventures.com/~lgthscac/homosexualityingod'seyes.htm

(Robert L. Mauro. "The Nation’s Leading Serial Killers."

Well, let's put it this way, Gary, what are the odds a marriage is harmonious if gay people do as some Christians demand: pretend to be straight, have kids to 'prove' it, then try and stand each other's company for eighteen years when one or both weren't being honest with each other or themselves to begin with?

Maybe someone doesn't approve of 'two moms' or 'two dads' as 'complete enough' in some abstract way completely unsupported-and-in-fact counter-indicated-by-actual-peer-reviewed research...

Doesn't mean that denying marriage benefits will suddenly turn someone straight, or that even forcing our loving marriages apart will suddenly erase someone's identity and beam some loving heterosexuality into the equation.

That's not how it works.

Even if it was, ...ever, it's an *awfully* thin premise to hurt countless families over. In real, constant, obvious, and unjust ways.

There have been many, many studies that have shown harmonious marriage to beneficial to the couple and especially to the children. This has been a well-documented fact for decades.

The problem is that these studies pertain to marriage to a man and a woman.

I'm not intending to tar all Christians with the brush of these guys, ..they'll never be convinced of anything. Just sort of appealing to *those* they're trying to use Biblical stuff and spurious 'studies' to *associate* a minority with all manner of horrid stuff they see, for some reason, in their own minds... *as* gay people.

A 'little' hatred isn't Love, and it isn't 'moderation,' either.

It's all dehumanizing and degrading to human beings, whether or not it's spoken by completely-off-the rails ...well, these types.

Saying it more 'nicely' doesn't mean it doesn't come from hatred and deception.

It's those of you more 'middle of the road' on issues of our equality and rights that I hope will see that all this anti-gay stuff, in whatever quantity or intensity, is not the goodness I know is there. It's not based on 'Truth' ...it's based on deceptions.... and hurting people.

This bigotry, however mildly put, undermines, even removes, justice and honesty from so many lives... Which makes it about *all* our lives.

It's your business how you may reconcile it among yourselves.

The government and such is *my government, too. In the eyes of which we're *all* supposed to be equal, whether we're straight or Christian or not.

This torrent of hate coming out of the Right... is about the same stuff that's been ongoing throughout my life and the lives of those who've come before.

I can't work out your religion for you, but I most certainly *can* question whether or not certain folks are really living up to what they say they are.

And I can point out what damage is done.

No one likes to think they're being 'the bad guys,' ...many are simply in denial of what they do, others think Justice and Liberty are a 'controversy' that's theirs to decide.

My hope is that your religion will stop being used as a bludgeon ...especially as while someone's beating me with it, or watching, ...none of us are helping anyone.

I call on you to be part of the solution. I know it's not all of you. But I do know many are in denial what this is about. And those, maybe are some eyes that can be opened.

Blessed be. :)

TTWS...

You quote the most outlandish "statistics" without any citations. So, they must be made up... Same with quotations (I assume you are intending those paragraphs identified with " at the beginning as quotations. Again, no identification. Not even a claim as to authorship, let alone a text citation. Therefore, they, too must be made up.

Pagan...I agree with much of what you say on your posts, in general, but not all Christians try and do/say things that harm others. No matter our thoughts, beliefs on a topic, many of us TRY and be positive in our dealings with others.

And having a list of friends who have died, etc., in the HIV/AIDS horror is also true of many of us who believe. The young man who served as crucifer at my ordination died at 32 of AIDS, having caught it before anyone really knew what AIDS was. I still remember the sense of loss at a brilliant and gentle life cut short.

PR Chris

Let's put it this way, Christians: not only is homophobia bad for *our* health and our nation and our children...

It's bad for *your* health. Particularly your mental and emotional health.

It's hatred and deception, and no good can come of it. None.

Again-

Hmmm, then there is the "sin" effect for those homosexuals (and heterosexuals) who follow some form of the Commandments:
Thou shalt Not Commit Adultery and Thou Shall Not Covet Thy Neighbors' Wife/Husband/Partner with the corollary of Thou Shalt Not Fornicate pertain not only to heterosexual couples but also homosexual couples.

This probably is no concern to non-Christians or non-Jews but it should be a major concern to those religious types who believe in the teachings of the OT, NT, the Commandments and all of its corollaries.

So we have a Christian/Jewish God who supposedly created all of us to include homosexuals.

Said God is therefore responsible for the defective gene/mind-set that causes homosexuality!!! One might conclude from this that the Christian God would therefore approve same-sex unions aka mutual masturbations/outercoursing since that is the only sin-free state where any type of couple-sex can be performed.

Please "Google" "mutual masturbation" before getting all upset. There are over one million references to said phrase.

Additionally, it is obvious that intercourse and other sexual activities (homosexual and heterosexual) are out of control with over one million abortions (heterosexuals only) and 19 million cases of STDs per year in the USA alone.

from the CDC-2006

"Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain STDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psychological consequences of STDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs associated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."

How in the world do we get this situation under control? A pill to temporarily eliminate the sex drive would be a good start. And teenagers and young adults must be constantly reminded of the dangers of sexual activity and that oral sex, birth control pills, condoms and chastity belts are no protection against STDs.

Might a list of those having a STD posted on the Internet help? Sounds good !!! Said names would remain until the STD has been eliminated with verification by a doctor. Lists of sexual predators are on-line. Is there a difference between these individuals and those having a STD having sexual relations while infected???

And before getting all disturbed about condom use not being effective in avoiding STD's, read the following from the Guttmacher Institute:

"..... 17 percent of condom users wind up pregnant because typically, the prophylactic slips, breaks - or sits on the nightstand."

All of this does make a strong case for celibacy (or self-masturbation/wet dreams??).

If you're worried about *serial* killers, TT..

Well, *consider* the case of Dahmer. Who were his victims? Gay youth. Those cast out and scorned and vulnerable *because* of what you're doing.

Predators are *often* publicly homophobic cause it isolates and disempowers and silences their *victims.* Pedophiles, again, are *vastly* more likely to be heterosexually-identified, whatever the sex of their victims. It's about *control.*

Homophobia and discrimination and hatred toward a whole class of people, even if you weren't lying and smearing, ...wouldn't be the answer.

More hate speech. And this?

"The problem is this. When the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association, and its Psychiatrists and Psychologists are telling you homosexuality poses no problems, and the Court elevates gay sex to the dignity of conjugal love, you have a hard time blaming Jesus and His Church for the travail of gays."

Why is that a problem? I'd think you would *want* a circumstance where you can't be blamed for the travails you seek to impose on us.

If the psychiatric community says homosexuality poses no problems, then why do you insist it does, citing some unattributed 'study' (nonsensically, actually: even if it says one in twenty teachers are 'pedophiles' ...it doesn't follow that those are gay.

Pedophilia is unrelated to sexual orientation: pedophilia is a fixation on non-sexually-mature victims, who are generally chosen for their vulnerability, not their sex. The vast majority of pedophiles are doing or have done what you would like homosexuals to do: gotten married to a woman for social cover from your smears and hate.

Jefrey Dahmer didn't have a healthy adult sexuality: he was a *paranoid schizophrenic* who in whatever logic that illness created, thought it was more acceptable to kill and eat people than be a homosexual.

That's not an effect of homosexuality: one could even say it's what internalized homophobia did to someone with his head scrambled by *psychosis.*

In fact, the case reminds me much more of the internally-closeted gays who are obsessed with gay sex... in others.. And will do anything they can to hurt or control or demean gay people.

Whether they use religious froth or a knife and fork.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
POSTED: JUNE 12, 2009 6:06 PM

IRT:
You fixate on filling your own head with the kinkiest ideas about *sex* you can conjure, then, as an excuse, act *revolted* about *love.*

I have no fixation, these aren’t my facts they come from the Government. You can ignore them. If you do, you’ll never understand why there is so much adversity against gay sex.

In New York schools alone, a study showed 5 percent of PSS teachers are pedophiles, in respect to 0.25% in all Catholic priests of the last 30 years and little if anything is done about it by the public school officials. One child in the New York Public Schools is said to be molested per day by PSS personnel. The public sees the .025% not the 5.00%.

The problem is this. When the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association, and its Psychiatrists and Psychologists are telling you homosexuality poses no problems, and the Court elevates gay sex to the dignity of conjugal love, you have a hard time blaming Jesus and His Church for the travail of gays.

"Statistics show that, although the homosexual population is only between 1.5 to 2.5 percent of the total population, eight of the top ten serial killers in the United States were homosexuals. Homosexuals were responsible for 68 percent of all mass murders. Following is a list of nine leading homosexual serial killers, eight of which were in the top ten most prolific killers as of 1992.

1. DONALD HARVEY: 37 Murders… Psychologists testified, "Harvey said he was a homosexual”; 2. JOHN WAYNE GACY: 33 Murders… a professed homosexual… who killed 33 young men and boys and buried them in his basement; 3. PATRICK WAYNE KEARNEY: 32 Murders; 4. BRUCE DAVIS: 28 Murders, Killed 28 young men and boys; 5. CORLL, HENRY AND OWEN: 32 Murders; 6. JUAN CORONA: 25 Murders; 7. JEFFREY DAHMER: 17 Murders, a convicted child molester; 8. STEPHEN KRAFT: 16 Murders; 9. WILLIAM BONIN: 14 Murders… tortured and killed 14 young men… had sex with his victims before and after they died. (Robert L. Mauro. "The Nation’s Leading Serial Killers. The reality exist, that Homosexuals have a lot of serious social problems.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
POSTED: JUNE 12, 2009 6:06 PM

IRT:
“You try and blame those you clearly want to try to drive to shadows and shame and degradation for your *own* sick desires to kill hope and dignity... For what they've suffered at the hands of the likes of you and those who make nicey-nice about half-believing you and denying they have anything to do with it.”

ANS:
What have I blamed you for? I don’t wish to drive you into the shadows, you live in the shadows of the truth. I wish for you to live in the light. I do not wish to kill your desires, to kill hope and dignity. You destroy your own hope when you abandon God. You kill your own desires of happiness when you choose all that contradicts your very nature. Sin tarnishes human dignity. I wish that you, and only you can do this, restore your dignity. Sin destroys one’s dignity.

For “what they suffer” is the consequences of the Natural Law. Those who condemn you and not the sin condemn themselves.

The Natural Law doesn’t discriminate; it can’t be compromised; violate it and the consequences are deadly. Some 26 million have died from AIDS; some 35 million worldwide are HIV infected. That should tell you something. It should tell you why people are adverse to gay sex.

The advocates of homosexual lifestyles perpetuate a systematic symptom of moral blindness and are impervious to its consequences; they blame others for their travail.

According to the British Journal of Sexual Medicine and The HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services: ‘Homosexuals carry one-half of the country's syphilis, although they are only 1.5 to 2.5 of the population, and are fourteen times more likely to have had the disease than heterosexuals.

Two-thirds of all the AIDS cases in the U.S. are the direct result of homosexual conduct. Homosexual young people are twenty-three times more likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) than their heterosexual counterparts. In San Francisco, the sexually transmitted disease rate is twenty -two times higher than the national average.”

If I hated you, I would want you to have gay sex. To the contrary, I wish none of these tragic things will happen to you.

Jesus never condoned adultery, adultery is a vilification of the institute of marriage God instituted, nor can God accord those things against the human nature He created, and breathed into man His image and likeness. When man defiles his own nature, he vicariously defiles his Creator.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
PAGANPLACE
POSTED: JUNE 12, 2009 6:06 PM

IRT:
“I carry with me the memory of my own share of friends who were murdered or died or just couldn't go on with life... Somehow, none of it related to AIDS or STDs.”

ANS:
It is written, “And the scribes and Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, and wrote with his finger on the ground. When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself and said to them, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.' And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest.

And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. Then Jesus, lifting up himself, said to her, ‘Woman, where are they that accused thee?" Hath no man condemned thee?’ Who said, ‘No man, Lord.’ And Jesus said, ‘Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.’”

“Go and sin no more.” That is the whole point. It is also written, that with man nothing is possible, but with God all things are possible. If you are addicted to Homosexuality, no one condemns you, viz. not Jesus, not the Church. You condemn yourself when you engage in illicit sex. The Church condemns illicit sex because She knows its consequences, and She knows God loves you. Consequently, His Church will do everything to help you avoid the tragic ends that illicit sex portends.

What God condemns is the sin of illicit sex, whether you think it is a sin or not. However, no one can overcome a deadly sin without God’s help, and like the adulterous woman, God will not condemn a sinner, but will help the sinner overcome their affliction through His Church. He saved the thief on the cross who cursed Him. The only person who can condemn you, in the eyes of God, is yourself.

God will help anyone who calls upon Him. For, never has it been heard of that anyone who fled to His protection was left unaided. If you ask for bread, God will not give you a scorpion. If you refuse to ask and jump over a cliff, after you hit the bottom no one can help you, not even God's mercy. For, the God of Mercy, is also a God of Justice.

People lose hope because they have abandoned God.

"What does TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2 stand for?"

Who cares, can't be very effective words of wisdom, whatever it is, can it?

TTWSY and so forth:

What does TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2 stand for?

SAvage inequalities breed sickness, ill health. This whole second-class citizenship that we have visited upon gays is horrific, and although many straights don't know, indeed, they are part of the problem, they have become sick from this oppression, themselves. God-willing, it will end. It must.

Yes, though, TT. Many more people committed suicide in the 70s, and 80s, before there was hope for more to life than what you'd make of them and do to them.

It's a big part of why we fight.

I carry with me the memory of my own share of friends who were murdered or died or just couldn't go on with life... Somehow, none of it related to AIDS or STDs.

You try and blame those you clearly want to try to drive to shadows and shame and degradation for your *own* sick desires to kill hope and dignity... For what they've suffered at the hands of the likes of you and those who make nicey-nice about half-believing you and denying they have anything to do with it.

You fixate on filling your own head with the kinkiest ideas about *sex* you can conjure, then, as an excuse, act *revolted* about *love.*

And you lie.

I'm not the one with reason to fear your Jesus or your God.

Now that we've heard from the self-styled masturbation expert...

... and the one who quotes BS figures about VD to discriminate against all gay people while ignoring that, actually, lesbians are the lowest risk group of anyone out there, but still are apparently to be subject to his hate...

Seriously, Christians. Why is it you aren't looking at *these* guys saying such stuff, instead of looking for excuses to avoid a *wee* bit of discomfort?

Talk about your nest of vipers, look at these SOB's. They ain't even whitewashed the tomb since the 50's.

ALBERT SCARIA
POSTED JUNE 11, 2009; 1:33 PM
“JUSTICE”

IRT:
“There are many reasons why same sex marriage should be legal. Those reasons have to do with justice, greater scientific understanding of same-sex attraction, and careful analysis of the few biblical references to homosexuality in the Judeo-Christian tradition.”

ANS:
Homosexual Marriage is a direct assault on the sanctity and self-worth of those involved. No immorality can be good for the human person because it is a contradiction of human nature and the society in which one lives.

The integrity of the person depends on one’s consonance with the moral virtue of Prudence, Temperance (Chastity), Justice and Fortitude.

Justice is a moral quality or habit that perfects the will and inclines it to render to each and to all what belongs to them. Thus, to claim gay marriage is a matter of Justice is derisive and abject.

Gay sex is an invitation to death, AIDS, and STDs. Exposing someone to such Immorality destroys one’s self-integrity and worth.

Of the other cardinal virtues, prudence perfects the intellect and inclines the prudent man to act in all things according to right reason. Fortitude controls the irascible passions; and temperance moderates the appetites according as reason dictates. While Fortitude and Temperance are self-regarding virtues, Justice has reference to others.

“Chastity is a gift from God, a grace, a fruit of spiritual effort. The Holy Spirit enables one whom the water of Baptism has regenerated to imitate the purity of Christ; it is the integrality of the gift of self

“The chaste person maintains the integrity of the powers of life and love placed in him. This integrity ensures the unity of the person; it is opposed to any behavior that would impair it. It tolerates neither a double life nor duplicity in speech.

Living an immoral life has elevated the rates of suicide in teens to the third highest cause of death, and the eighth in adult deaths.

“Concerning suicide in the gay community, Allen Young (1972, 1977) noted: "Most of us in gay liberation don't hear about a suicide without automatically assuming there's a good chance the person is homosexual."(19:23) More recently, Gens Hellquist (Gay and Lesbian Health Services, Saskatoon) reported, "AIDS is not the only thing that is killing our friends. While I'm not aware of any statistics on the subject, I believe we've lost more lives to suicide than to AIDS. I certainly know more people in our community who have taken their own lives than I know who have died from AIDS.”

Hmmm, (health aspects, etc. of homosexuality in general)

Lets see, in gay sexual activity, in or out of a "blessed" union, who plays the guy and who plays the gal? Who is on top and who is on the bottom? A coin flip? To say the least, an unusual situation. Then there are those "made in China" toys/strap-ons. Lets hope the FDA has checked them for lead and other toxic components. And do said "toys" come with sanitizers and/or sterilization instructions.

Lots and lots of "gays" doing their hot and heavy things on Internet tube sites but nothing about coin flipping, who is on first, and sanitizers sites?? There must be some "Gaying It For Dummies" books out there somewhere. Hmmm, I wonder if said books/sites have to have FDA and CDC approval??

Is said activity wrong and worthy of a trip to hell? Of course not but to the general heterosexual population it is yucky, unusual and not normal to them. With that mind set, approval by the majority is not always sanctioned in law.

The general population to include many of the voters in California, rightly or wrongly, find gay sexual activities, in a union or not, to be "yucky" and unusual and typically associate such activity with the spread of AIDS which is of course wrong. Said AIDS epidemic in the gay male community at the start of the AIDS crises will always remain unfortunately a stigma on the gay community.

One wonders if stem cell research will find a cure??

Hmmm, would the embryos formed from the sperm of gay guys and the eggs from gay gals make more ethical embryos for this and other types of research?? "

There is an impressive list of gay people who did not let their yucky defect get in the way of being a contribution to society.

Unfortunately, they were not able to contribute to the evolutionary process of DNA improvement via procreation.
And one will never know whether they would have achieved even greater achievements without said defect.

continued below:

Hmmm, then there is the "sin" effect for those homosexuals (and heterosexuals) who follow some form of the Commandments:

Thou shalt Not Commit Adultery and Thou Shall Not Covet Thy Neighbors Wife/Husband/Partner with the corollary of Thou Shalt Not Fornicate pertain not only to heterosexual couples but also homosexual couples.

This probably is no concern to non-Christians or non-Jews but it should be a major concern to those religious types who believe in the teachings of the OT, NT, the Commandments and all of its corollaries.

So we have a Christian/Jewish God who supposedly created all of us to include homosexuals. Said God is therefore responsible for the defective gene/mind-set that causes homosexuality? One might conclude from this that the Christian God would therefore approve same-sex unions aka mutual masturbations/outercoursing since that is the only sin-free state where any type of couple-sex can be performed.

Please "Google" "mutual masturbation" before getting all upset. There are over one million references to said phrase.

GAY MARRIAGE?

For the health of a homosexual, it’s not Marriage but Chastity, immoral sex is a detriment to man’s nature.

“Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage, the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion.

"Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death."142

Instead of Homosexuality, pederasty, pedophilia, abortion, suicide, murdering unborn, pornography, the devaluation of woman, contraceptives, which the left-wing media implores, the church has another view “Love one another as God loves you, and then go out and do what ever you wish.”

The tradition of the Church has understood the sixth commandment as encompassing the whole of human sexuality within the person and thus the inner unity of man in his bodily and spiritual being.

Sexuality, in which man's belonging to the bodily and biological world is expressed, becomes personal and truly human when it is integrated into the relationship of one person to another, in the complete and lifelong mutual gift of a man and a woman.

Homosexuality In God's Eyes

Copyright (c) 1997-2002 Zenith Harris Merrill.

http://www.bloomington.in.us/~lgthscac/homosexualityingod'seyes.htm

“The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) is carrying the ideology of the militant homosexual movement to its natural conclusion. If there is no such thing as perversion and if sex is good, merely the exercise of the physical appetite, as Alfred Kinsey falsely claimed then why should children be denied this good?"

According to C-Span, on "Homosexual Disinformation," May 22-23, 1993, much of the homosexual propaganda disguised as sex education in our schools is actually indoctrination of the nation's children.

For, the same publisher who provides the two well publicized books used for kindergarten kids to advocate homosexual or lesbian parents, "Daddy's Roommate" and "Heather Has Two Mommies," also publishes "Men Loving Men," - a book containing seven precautionary steps men may take in order to prevent being caught while molesting a child.”

Current Court records reveal that 1/3 of all child abusers are homosexuals. Since the total homosexual population is statistically, not more than 1- 1/2 to 2- 1/2 percent of the population, this means that homosexuals are sixteen (16) times more likely to abuse children than are heterosexuals.

What Has God Ordained "Natural" Sexuality to Be?
Nature has rejected Homosexuality -based on the abject unhealthiness (as of 1995) of those in bondage to this "unnatural" vice, for according to the British Journal of Sexual Medicine and The HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services:

Homosexuals carry one-half of the country's syphilis, although they are only 1- 1/2 to 2- 1/2% of the population, and are fourteen times more likely to have had the disease than heterosexuals.

Two-thirds of all the AIDS cases in the U.S. are the direct result of homosexual conduct.
Homosexual young people are twenty-three times more likely to contract sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) than their heterosexual counterparts.

IN REPLY TO (IRT)
ALBERT SCARIATO
JUNE 11, 2009; 1:33 PM

IRT:
“There are many reasons why same sex marriage should be legal.”

ANS:
I believe you got it backwards. There are many reasons why same sex marriage shouldn’t be legal. The first is there is no such thing. Second, that makes it an oxymoron. Third, if you haven’t noticed yet, there is a difference between men and women.

Fourth, the precepts of Marriage are defined by the Natural Law. “Human law certainly takes cognizance of marriage, but marriage not having been established by man, its essential properties cannot be justly and morally annulled by human law. Marriage is monogamic and indissoluble; death alone dissolves the union when consummated.

Fifth, Marriage is an institution created by God, not man, and it is a natural entity of man to be a social being.

Sixth, Marriage was intended by the Creator for the propagation of the human race and for the mutual help of husband and wife.

Seventh:
“Marriage is natural in purpose, but Divine in origin. It is sacred, being intended primarily by the Author of life to perpetuate His creative act and to beget children of God. Its secondary ends are mutual society and help, and a lawful remedy for concupiscence.

Eighth: “Marriage is that individual union through which man and woman by their reciprocal rights form one principle of generation. It is effected by their mutual consent to give and accept each other for the purpose of propagating the human race, of educating their offspring, of sharing life in common, of supporting each other in undivided conjugal affection by a lasting union.

“Marriage is a contract and is by its very nature above human law. It was instituted by God, is subject to the Divine law, and for that reason, Marriage cannot be morally rescinded by human law. Those who contract marriage do so indeed by their own free wills, but they must assume the contract and its obligations unconditionally.

“When men pretend to be the final arbiters of the marriage contract, they base their claim on the assumption that this contract is merely of human institution and is subject to no laws above those of man. But human society, both in its primitive and organized form, was originated by marriage, not marriage by human society.

Unfortunately, the anti-LBGT crowd don't care about our health... unless of course it's to claim being gay is 'unhealthy,' and that gays 'spread disease' or on the other hand to claim that it's good if we suffer or get get sick.

Of course, the only internal consistency about anti-gay people's arguments, especially over time, is that they're anti-gay. When one notion's debunked, they're onto the next excuse, if they don't just repeat what's not true over and over again, anyway.

Even though I wasn't considering marriage myself at the time, when marriage rights were extended to us in Massachusetts, though, I can't help but remember feeling the lift of a weight that I hadn't really been conscious of carrying around: it's not like attitudes out there changed overnight, ...but it was a breath of Liberty.

Sure put a spring in *my* step, one which the immediate attempts to quash the whole deal were clearly meant to blunt, but which I think, once you've felt it. can't be un-felt.

I think that the denial of even the *hope and possibility* of marriage contributes greatly to some of the very dynamics in some LBGT scenes that religious conservatives like to tar everyone with: some turn to drugs and alcohol or self-destructive behavior simply because they think partying is all there is, or they could ever have.

Even the struggle for full equality and marriage rights in particular has changed a lot of the lingering tone of 'sour grapes' about the possibility that one used to hear from many, when it was even brought up twenty years ago.

Perhaps what it's really about is getting LBGT people not just out of the closet, but out of the cultural *ghetto.* Which may be the idea that scares conservatives the most.

Not that I don't think there'll always be a fondness for the 'old neighborhood,' of course, all the positive and wonderful things about it that are really already a part of the fabric of America.

People don't understand why there are Pride parades, but this is all part of it. There are real human needs, hopes, and lives involved, ...maybe some will find it in their hearts to see that as of more value than their comfort zone with the definition of a word.