Faith and Values 2008: First Quarter Report

To Intercessor: I think I'll pass on your invitation. If I want to see some healer hijinks, I'll watch Benny Hinn or Peter Popoff.

To Neal Obstat:

"... a lot of superstitious nonsense from the Dark Ages"? I posted testimonies from 2007; hardly, the Dark Ages!

As is the case on most Friday nights, the real "Dark Ages" again will be expelled at tonight's The Father's Blessing service in the City of Fairfax. We meet at 7:30 for worshiping and healing (I will be on duty as one of the healing ministers). You are welcome to check for yourself as to whether it is superstious nonsense or supernatural truth. For directions, visit www.churchoftheapostles.org in the event that you are in the area and are willing to accept the challenge.

By the way, the Celtic name Neal means champion (as well as chief or ruler) and also can be translated as hero. Take this as a challenge from one Neal to another Neal.

Now, stretching the point, to get back on topic: in the past (during the last several decades, rather than during the Dark Ages), members of Congress have been members of my church (Church of the Apostles). There are some members of Congress who parctice the kind of "faith and values" that you can observe at my church. I'm one of those Evangelicals with a desire to elect more politicians that are trained for the kind of interceding to which Cindy may have been referring.

JJ, you act worse than an islamic terrorist. Behave yourself. I don't understand your post. It seems like from outer space. Aren't you learning from this forum?

3 is not similar to 3.14159 which is the real value of pi.

Christianity means perfection and not approximation. Not half-truth, but whole truth.

How the universe evolved is OK but how human evolved revolves around lies. DNA only adapts to it's environment and has no capacity to transform from one specie to another.

Evolutionists have to fight on coz at stake is their credibility and the most sh*meful retraction of all time.

" Arminius:

One wonders if Spidey believes that pi = 3, which is the literal reading of I Kings 7, 23"

I think, sometimes, that some are so against the notion intelligence could have come through other apes that they try to prove by example that intelligence never happened at all. :)

Whoa, Spidey.

" spiderman2:

Obstat wrote : " a lot of superstitious nonsense from the Dark Ages"

"Yes, like believing that humans and monkeys come from a common ancestor. But nobody asked who's the ancestor of that common ancestor."

Actually, pretty much everyone in that branch of evolutionary biology since Darwin has, ...that's kind of the point.

"I tried "solving" it and the most rational answer I get is that it has a human father and a gorilla mother.

VERY DARK INDEED."

Ok, son. If people are talking about major disciplines of science and metric tons of documented observations, and all you can think about is sex with monkeys, it ain't evolutionary biology that brought the 'darkness.'

Dig?

One wonders if Spidey believes that pi = 3, which is the literal reading of I Kings 7, 23.

Hey Spidey,
I'm not sure why you brought up evolution, but since you did, I will take the opportunity to point out that it is as well-supported a scientific theory as any other theory you will come across (gravity, etc.). In other words, denying evolution is sort of like believing the earth is flat. (You don't believe that, do you?) Next you'll be attacking the theory of relativity as a godless theory that leads to moral relativism. I suppose after that you will attack Heisenberg's uncertainty principle because, by God, there is no uncertainty but only the absolute truth of the Bible.

Again, Spiderman 2, you express your rejection of evolution in spite of the overwhelming evidence that demonstrates its truth. You might as well deny that the earth moves around the sun. So again I ask you, are you a new-earth Christian? Do you believe the universe is only 6 to 10 thousand years old?

Obstat wrote : " a lot of superstitious nonsense from the Dark Ages"

Yes, like believing that humans and monkeys come from a common ancestor. But nobody asked who's the ancestor of that common ancestor.

I tried "solving" it and the most rational answer I get is that it has a human father and a gorilla mother.

VERY DARK INDEED.

To Intercessor: My point was that your post was a lot of superstitious nonsense from the Dark Ages. And, sorry, I'm not going to change my name.

To Neal Obstat:

Your response didn't make much sense. What were you trying to say that relates to the subject of "faith and values" in reference to politics in 2008?

Neal Obstat, here's a story told about Alexander the Great. A cowardly recruit was brought before Alexander the Great because the recruit had run from the battle. When the recruit was ordered to state his name, he timidly replied, "Alexander". Alexander the Great thought for a moment and then gave the following judgement: "Alexander, you have two choices, either learn to fight, or change your name!"

Neal Obstat, my given name is also "Neal" -- you have two choices, either change your name or learn to communicate on point!

Jeff P,

When I described the Newt as intelligent, which he is, I in no way was making a defense of him; his intelligence simply makes him more dangerous. He is the high priest of slash-and-burn politics, and has no more ethics than the Shrub. An example: when it became apparent that the move to impeach Clinton might really happen, a reporter asked Newt if there were any real basis for impeachment. Newt said 'No'. Later, when it was obvious that Clinton would actually be impeached, a reporter brought up Newt's denial of grounds, and asked him why they were actually going to impeach Clinton. Newt's answer: 'Because we can.'

I really like reading your posts.

Arminius

There's lies, damn lies, and then statistics.

I also find it ironic that this born-again bipartisanship crusader and critiquer of the "divide" comes from a man who, in my lifetime, was probably among the most divisive politician in modern memory. Is there a reason that his very name brings up venom from so many people? He's a very smart man who's blown his credibility with at least half of the population (given our last two election results..)

He didn't keep very good company, I might add.

Nevertheless, I'll read his book GaryD and try to keep an open mind. It'll admittedly be difficult given his premise that "democrats will never be able to govern" mentality. We've had nothing but lies, damn lies, and statistics coming from our Republican ruled government over the last 7 years so it couldn't be much worse.

I don't say these things out of hatred, I say them out of fear for our future, given the damage that's been done in the name of "values."

I do appreciate your input.

He uses actual scientific surveys to support his claim that the majority of Americans agree on most subjects.

He also roundly castigates current Republican leadership which is probably why he's getting luke warm responses at best from some Republican commentators.

Paganplace,

You should read the parable of the ten virgins so you would undertand what I'm talking about.

Atheists claim there is no God and God rewards them with "I don't know you too !!! "

Know Him before he utters those words to you.

Funny, Spidey, how much you think of your view of your God's power and magnificence, and still think so little of him you can conjure his judgment against people who disagree with, err, *you,* out of a book.

"Afterwards, the other virgins also came, saying, "Lord, Lord, open to us". But He answered and said " I don't know you".]"

It speaks about Judgment Day when the doors will be shut from unbelievers.

"I don't know you ! ".

God keeps record of those statements from unbelievers and gives them a dose of their own medicine.

To Intercessor: Verily, verily I say unto you that the Lord God has cast out the demons from thy leg, neck, back, and eye. What need have ye of doctors when prayer doth exorcise the demons that are the cause of thy pain and sickness?

YoungJ1, I think that Cindy might have been referring to the following kind of intercession (although for a nation rather than for a person):

Healing of Leg Pain

On Saturday, September 8, 2007 I woke up with a painful cramp in my left leg. Usually when I start moving around, any muscle soreness dissipates, but this time the pain continued throughout the day, getting worse. Since I have had blood clots in that leg in the past, I was concerned that this could be serious. I went to church that evening and went for prayer ministry. As soon as the prayer ministers started praying there was an audible "crack" in my knee, I was slain in the Spirit, and the pain in my lower leg just disappeared, never to return. Praise God for the prayer ministry at COA—a place where God's mercy and power can reach and touch us. —RK

Neck Healing

In April 2006, I was in a car accident where I was hit from behind and suffered whiplash. I had constant discomfort in my neck and limited range of motion. I could turn my head to the left but hardly at all to the right. I had trouble sleeping from the pain, and would wake up with pain in my neck. On Sunday, September 30, 2007, I went forward during the post-sermon worship time because I wanted more of God. I was asking God, "What's next?" I had no agenda.

As I stood at the front, with my eyes closed, I was aware of the pain of the people around me. I was receiving a touch from God but was also praying for other people. With my eyes closed, I saw a brilliant light. One of the prayer ministers prayed for me and I went down under the power of God. My bottom hit the ground hard, and my first thought was, My neck! Then I thought, Why am I worried about my neck when I am in the presence of God? I began to laugh. The light got brighter. I felt certain that God was healing my neck. I heard a small whisper: I don't want you to be in pain. I sat on the floor, where I had fallen under the power of God and continued to move my neck from side to side. I knew God was healing my neck. I laughed and was enjoying his presence, knowing that God was healing me.

I had to tell someone, so I got up and went back to my seat and I told my husband. One of the prayer ministers came back to ask if I was okay, because she had tried to hang on to me as I fell under the power of God, and she was worried that I had gotten hurt. "No," I said, "I am not hurt. My neck is hot and God is healing me." Since Sunday, I have been able to move my head from side to side without any pain. There is a little catch but I feel that God is healing that, too. I sense God is saying that even that last little pop, which I feel when I turn my neck, will be gone in ten days and that meanwhile, I am to sleep on my left side. I am being obedient and trusting and expecting that in a few days it will be healed completely. —A

Back Healing at the Blood Bank

On Saturday, August 18, 2007, I was in the YMCA in Reston donating blood, when one of the blood technicians grabbed the small of his back with both hands and began to pace, moaning, "My back, my back!"

I had a needle in my arm and could not move, but I had heard his name, so I called "Dan," softly, hoping that no one else would hear me. When he came over, I asked if I could pray for his back. He looked surprised but nodded, and I motioned for him to turn so I could place my free hand on his back. I prayed quietly, "Jesus, you know what is wrong. Touch and heal him."

"Is it any better?" I asked.

"Yes, it is," he said then briskly walked off and went back to work. My first thought was that Dan was trying to get away. Then I felt a rush of inexplicable sweetness wash over me—the presence of God. I felt God whisper that He was pleased and for a brief moment I basked in His pleasure.

I watched Dan closely. As he worked, bending over to shake the bags of blood, he did not touch his back even once. He had been so talkative, now he was silent as if he were mulling over what had happened. Ten minutes later, he came back to my chair. "Thanks," he said. "Thanks for praying for me."

"God is good," I replied. "We've been seeing a lot of people healed lately." He nodded and resumed working. I walked out of there feeling the joy of the Lord to my toes. —ES

Healing of Eye Paralysis

On Friday, January 18, 2007, I woke up feeling as though I was coming down with the flu. I had a horrible headache, sore throat, and a slight cough. Since there was a delayed opening for school, I decided to drag myself to work. As the day progressed I felt worse and had to leave work early and come home. A fever developed and the pain in my head increased throughout the night and into Saturday. By Saturday evening, I just could not get any relief and now had double vision.

We called our doctor on Saturday evening and he advised us to go to the emergency room immediately, since double vision can be a symptom of many serious illnesses. The doctors did a spinal tap, two CAT-scans (one with dye, one without) and an MRI, checking for a host of possible causes including a brain tumor, meningitis, Lyme’s disease, or MS. This was all pretty scary for someone who has only been in the hospital to give birth to my two children.

My husband, Ron, began praying for me at the first sign of my illness and quickly e-mailed over 120 friends and relatives asking them to pray also. People from all over the world began praying for me. On Sunday morning, after being admitted into the hospital, we learned that David Harper, our pastor, had the whole congregation stand and pray for my recovery. That touched our hearts deeply. That evening David and Margie came to the hospital and prayed for me to be healed. We felt so loved by the Body of Christ.

On Monday evening, the neurologist came into my hospital room and told us that the tests indicated that I had a palsy of the sixth nerve in my right eye, which caused my eye to be unable to track to the right—thus, causing double vision. He said there was no medication to be taken and that I should wear an eye patch, alternately covering my good and bad eye, so that both eyes would be exercised. I could see out of one eye at a time. All tests indicated that there was no structural injury or serious illness, and that the palsy was most likely caused by a virus and the double vision would probably last for 3-8 weeks.

I came home from the hospital on Monday evening and began adjusting to viewing life from one eye. It was not easy to see out of one eye, since one’s depth perception is greatly impaired. The prayers continued, as Ron updated our friends and relatives on the phone and by e-mail. We felt so supported by the prayers and phone calls. I truly had a confidence that I would be healed by the Lord and was actually excited about when and where it would take place. I sensed the Lord telling me, “Be still and know that I am God.”

On Saturday evening, exactly one week after the double vision began, Ron and I went to church. During the worship, a prayer minister came over, laid hands on me and prayed for my healing. After communion, I went over to the prayer teams and was prayed for by another ministry team.

After the service, Ron and I went to the back of the sanctuary to clean up the communion goblets and linens. Ron said that since I had been prayed for, I should take the patch off my eye and see if I was healed. He noticed that my paralyzed eye could now move to the right when he moved his hand in front of it, which it had not been able to do for a week. But when I removed the patch, I realized that I still had double vision. Ron encouraged me to accept my healing and realize that my brain was simply getting used to my eyes being healed.

During the coffee hour, we were talking to one of the prayer ministers who had prayed for me earlier. I was wearing the patch over my good eye, so Ron showed her that I could now move my “paralyzed” eye to the right. She encouraged us, telling us a story of a woman in a wheelchair who had been completely healed by degrees. starting with her little finger. She said she believed that my eye movement was a sign that God was healing me, then she quickly prayed, “Lord, complete this healing.”

About an hour later, we were home and I was taking a shower with my patch off and my eyes closed. Suddenly, I opened my eyes and saw only one bottle of shampoo. I was thrilled. I called Ron and he tested my vision. There was still a little double vision in my peripheral vision, but by morning that was gone as well.

Praise the Lord, I was healed! The double vision was gone. Our prayers were answered and my eyesight was restored.

The next day I went to see my eye doctor who was amazed at my progress. The doctor said she still saw a tiny trace of paralysis, but it was so minor that I was not aware of it. I was able to resume driving, and within a day or two there was no sign that my eye had ever been paralyzed.

I have been so filled with joy that I have been telling everyone—friends, co-workers and neighbors—what God did for me! To God be the glory for healing me! I will always remember His love and faithfulness. —MA

YoungJ1, a nation can be blessed by God through God's intercessors praying for healing from our national pains, for mobility to head in the right direction, for national "back bone", and for healing from national paralysis and impaired vision. That's why it is good to have "faith and values" in national politics. "When the godly are in authority, the people rejoice. But when the wicked are in power, they groan." [Proverbs 29:2]

Religious fanatics of all stripes are peas in a pod.

Neocons add a dash of their own racism when they throw kerosene on the Rev. Wright fire. Faux news is infested with these pyromaniacs.

I'm sure Abraham and Jesus are very proud.

Arminius:

I had a chance to swing over to Amazon and read the reviews of Gingrich's book. I trust the reviewers there for the most-part, especially where there are clearly Republican reviewers who don't automatically give a 5-star rating.

It appears to have most if not all of the disqualifying criteria listed in my last post: a generic "democrats are and simply will forever remain unable to govern," "there is a 'myth' of a divisiveness among Americans in regard to politics--we all want the same center-to-right things and honor center-to-right values; government is the problem--it needs to go away or be much smaller; and finally, we have lost all of our values and God-centeredness and need to bring them back to the public square.

These are only reviews, mind you, I've not read the material myself.

Otherwise, the most helpful of the reviews said it lacked in clear solutions but was big on talking about what's wrong. I'd recommend Broken Government (also written by a "conservative Republican" felon) prior to Newt's book, given the opportunity. And I'm not sure where Newt's been over the last 8 years, to suggest that "we all want the same things generally." Witness this coming election.

I know this isn't a political blog site but it always fascinates me to read key Republican public figures talk about how entrenched Democrats are with "special interests." By every measure, special interests have been served over the last 8 years in unprecedented quantity by a solidly, if totally ineffective (how can you be effective when you have 2-day workweeks?) Republican rulership. Our lag time in public interest is interesting, only now are we asking why Big Oil made billions in profits while we pay so much more at the pumps. Any coorelation to policy? Okay no more about Gingrich or the general magical effectiveness of Republican rule. Sorry.

GaryD, despite those reviews, I'll probably read the book because I'd be interested in seeing what makes you tick!

Arminius:

I don't doubt he's a smart man. Gingrich had a novel idea with his "Contract with America," although historically the results of that particular technique currently has mixed reviews. It is ironic that one year later he and his followers shut down the government, which didn't exactly sit well with voters. Plus, his handful of co-contributors haven't exactly fallen out over the years as being considered respected or honest politicians. (Tom DeLay?) What is that about?

I really would be willing to read the book suggested by GaryD if
--it's not a Reaganesque diatribe about how government "is the problem."
--it's not about effectively eliminating government, or at least making the government as ineffective and useless an organization as possible.
--it doesn't use "liberal atheist" too many times, or refer to God's mandate for the Republican party to rule America.

Those would be some simple criteria, but I'd really be quite surprised if it could be done coming from Gingrich.

Belief in a Supreme Being that knows our hearts and guides us via our consciences every day is one thing,certainly no one can disprove it.However the attachment to any kind of religious doctrine is quite another since the standard of morality and ethics arising from quite a lot of religious doctrine is very questionable indeed.There is also specific evidence, beyond denial, about the derivation of Genesis from the ancient Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh and the Enuma Elish which were about multiple Gods and not Jehovah.The thousands of points of comparison are such strong evidence that only those with extremist indoctrination could ignore it. There is also very strong evidence that most of the Hadiths have no historical provenance and are invalid. So all of these doctrines and dogmas have a poor basis,a mountain of doctrine built on a pin head of provenance. Certainly the religious vote is a prize to be coveted so any politician that wants to gobble down a large slice of this religious pie should claim belief in an unspecific deity but never, never be attached to any religion or denomination.

Cindy wrote:

"Instead of Christian bashing Thank The Believers for their intercession if it were not for them this nation would face worse than 9-11 now."

I think you are forgeting something. If I'm not mistaken the only soul you (cindy) can save is your own. Neither you, nor the pope or anyone else can intercede on behalf of another when it comes to holy redemption. So if you please, I will meet my maker on my own terms, answering for the choices in my life, and you can do the same. You can't intercede for me no matter how hard you try. That is the fallacy of the idea that a nation is blessed by God.

Spiderman2, You don't believe in evolution in spite of the absolutely overwhelming evidence for it. I'm curious: are you a "new earth" Christian, who believes creation is only about 6 to 10 thousand years old? Did Noah's flood carve out the Grand Canyon?

A quote from myself (hehe) : " Stupidity is self destructive, you know. You could be pointing that hammer you're holding now towards yourself."

Im just a light bearer (so you can see where you're going) and I don't want any kind of destruction to happen to anyone. But you should understand that "STUPIDITY IS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE" and you can prove that statement even thru science. In fact Darwin had it wrong when he thought that it's the strong who will survive. Actually, it should be "it's the foolish who won't survive". Those with defective mindset or defective DNAs is culled out.

Going back to "STUPIDITY IS SELF-DESTRUCTIVE", that is the real cause of Doomsday. Stupidity will rule this world and just like gravity pulling down everything that has weight, the self-destructiveness of stupidity will pull itself down and depending on how big that stupidity is, the same will be its destruction. It is called DOOMSDAY because of the IMMENSITY or MASSIVENESS of their STUPIDITY.

They are all stupid or FOOLS, in the words of God. In Doomsday, you won't see some supernatural act of God, but, what you would see are super stupid act of men.

Below is an example of how man can be so stupid even with a very high degree of education.

*****

When Pastor Jeremiah Wright made a misrepresentation of Christianity, almost all Christians were appalled by his diatribe. Nobody was angry over who uploaded that video on the net.

On the other hand, when some muslims "misrepresented " Islam and somebody (Wilder) uploaded them on the net, what we see are all muslims clamoring for the head of Mr.Wilder. What did Mr. Wider do? He just compiled the video so you muslims would censure those people who are "misrepresenting" you.

All of muslims' reaction mirror those of the barbarians seen in those videos. Instead of making speeches condemning those barbaric act, they are all clamoring for Mr.Wilder to be punished. WHAT COULD BE MORE STUPID THAN THAT?

I think there would come a time when after all the dust of the coming greatest war settles down, the surviving muslims will burn the book which caused all this Grandest Stupidity to occur.

*******

Is there anything wrong with FITNA? It just showed the videos of muslims recording themselves and their actions. If you want to stop another FITNA coming out sometime in the future, then restrict all muslims from having a video camera. Simple as that.

I thought that only a few muslim have this "terrorist tendencies" but after hearing former Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad issued a threat of banning all Dutch products, it seems like this "terrorist tendency" is actually endemic in ALL muslims.

What if the rest of the world bans Malaysia's products coz it has a stupid former prime minister? Is that reasonable? Judging from the threats he issued, he would probably say that it is reasonable.

The man is a doctor so I'd like to ask him this question. Hey doctor, is there a medicine for the kind of illness that you have? Better find a cure before this world comes to an end. And I'm talking about your world. Stupidity is self destructive, you know. You could be pointing that hammer you're holding now towards yourself.

******

All you atheists, evolutionists, secularists here are each holding that hammer. There is a true God and a false god, a true belief and a false belief and if you can't distinguish which is which or think that He doesn't exist, then you are the greatest fool.

Don't blame us true believers coz we just carry your weight and once the plank breaks, it's not we who failed but it's your increasing heavy weight which breaks it. Blame your stupidity and not the light bearers. When there is light, you open your eyes and not close it.

Surely everyone posting here realizes that Clinton, Obama, and McCain are merely politicians who will say or claim anything to get elected.

If a majority of the voters were Hindus, they'd all advocate teachings from the Bhagavad Gita.

They all want power at all costs. All they want is to get elected, and the devil take the hindmost.

If they claimed to be geese, you'd be arguing the merits of electing a fowl, or quibbling over whether ducks were better candidates. You miss the point entirely by following a false lead.

"Cindy is not alone. Remember how the Fundies preached that Katrina was God's punishment for a gay rights parade in New Orleans?"

Actually, they, as they often do, actually *prayed* for the destruction of New Orleans, and of course ignored the fact they got a destroyed New Orleans... except of course the part where the pride parade happened.

If these guys *thought* they had that kind of destructive influence over the weather, you'd "think they'd either burn themselves for witchcraft or at least notice how they have an uncanny way of getting even their sick fantasies *backwards.*

Like the time they prayed for the destruction of Disneyworld when it looked like a sure thing and instead got their own compound hit.

I usually speak on the basis of reason, here, but, really, you don't trifle with Poseidon.

Yes, I think it's more that the bad predictions are a manifestation of their maniacal hate and reckless disrespect for humanity and nature than that they cause these things... What causes them is people pandering to them and not maintaining and improving the levees, then claiming 'No One Could Have Known This Would Happen,' when it was on the *Discovery Channel* all those years they were blocking and diverting funding. )

" Or how Robertson and Falwell spoke in an interview about how 9/11 was God's punishment for feminism, evolution, and gay rights? Or was it abortion and something else?"

Pagans. Don't forget they blamed us, too.

Charming.

"Why these people, who somehow manage to call themselves Christian, are so immersed in OT punishment stuff, instead of living by what Jesus really taught, simply defeats me."

Ask Spiderman2. I think we should buy him a bunch of Christian Metal records and wait till he gets bored with glowering about apocalyptic doom and everyone burning.

I always wonder how these guys go to bed at night thinking their delight in the idea of the destruction of the world and the suffering of all that don't obey is somehow making them *not* the mad villains at this juncture.

spiderman2:

Why are you so angry? The Bible prophesied it so it absolutely must happen. And when it does what happens to you?

But of course, you'll be beamed up to Jesus. So you should be helping, not trying to stop it shouldn't you? You do want to be with Jesus? Aren't you like a kid waiting for Santa Claus?

I had a look at that hoax buster reading of sacred scriptures so don't wait for me. Chance are good that is the correct version of what happened, Moses and deal making with supernatural beings that live in fire. No one here has been able to show its wrong at least and here we have the most learned folks expert in sacred scriptures. Maybe you should stay here with all those who don't want to be with Jesus in His father Lucifer's house.

Now which direction did you say that beaming is going to be? I mean, how sure are you it's up and not down?

Neal Obstat:

Cindy is not alone. Remember how the Fundies preached that Katrina was God's punishment for a gay rights parade in New Orleans? Or how Robertson and Falwell spoke in an interview about how 9/11 was God's punishment for feminism, evolution, and gay rights? Or was it abortion and something else? Why these people, who somehow manage to call themselves Christian, are so immersed in OT punishment stuff, instead of living by what Jesus really taught, simply defeats me.

Arminius

Cindy Murphy goes on about the weather again! Lord, you'd think this was the Middle Ages. Cindy, back in the Middle Ages, people thought that basic weather and other natural phenomena (comets, etc.) were signs from God, omens, etc. Why are you stuck intellectually in the Middle Ages? Humanity has progressed a lot since then, hasn't it? Why do you reject modernity, why do you reject the basic knowledge that people have accumulated over the centuries? Look, it's one thing to believe in God and religion and to argue for your position in a rational, thoughtful way. But you are embarrassing yourself with your Medieval ignorance.

"devils advocate wrote: Why is it that it is O.K. for noxious crackpots to endorse Republicans, but it is an unforgivable sin when some of the same are close to Democratic candidates?"

Well, because if you elect a republican, you must expect him to act like a Republican. If you want a President who is to be held accountable for lying to the People, or for appointing undesireables to high office, you will have to elect a Democrat. Democrats CAN be expected to hold to some higher standards.

Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush, Speak morals on Sunday, when they decide to be filmed going to church, and speak immorality the rest of the week, when working for their friends.

Spiderman2 won't make it into heaven. Just too much negativity.

Jeff,

Perhaps the description of Spidey is not lack of evolution, but devolution.

As far as the Newt goes - I live in his old district. I did NOT vote for him. Anyway, for all his neolithic beliefs, the dude is very intelligent and, actually, intellectual. One can learn effective politics from him, he proved that in 1994. But ethics? Fugettaboutit!

Arminius

Spiderman,
just a quick note to say hello. I'm finally coming to believe you that in some individual cases, evolution is false. Some people didn't evolve.

GaryD,
sorry I just can't imagine learning something about ethical, effective politics from Newt Gingrich. Exactly what am I supposed to learn from this man? Fidelity? Honor? Truth? How to shut down a government? Under what circumstances did he leave public service? Probably the best things he's written are his fictional stories, but then again maybe you're referring to one. It's still not too late for you to catch FOX news tonight.

GaryD wrote : "What about Rod Parsley (McCain's official spiritual advisor) who said Islam is a "false religion" and should be "destroyed"?"

Watch FITNA. Their aim is world domination and the Bible prophesied that they will be successful in achieving that, if only for a year or two, with the help of atheist and evolutionist continents of course. Stupidity should rise to the top first and shine like a supernova before it "falls down greatly", to borrow Jesus Christ's words.

With Catholicism supporting evolution, I believe it will play a major role too. Maybe some sort of a grand 3 stooges act ? Yes, finally, the 3 grand stooges will soon rule the world. And true to their billing, it would be a raucus event but certainly, not funny.

And it will all end with a BIG BANG. Firecrackers flying everywhere. Or should I say, nukes?

DOOMSDAY? "Naah, it's just a fantasy..." Yes, it is, and atheist/secularists, evolutionists, false religions, liberal idealogues and everything false are all rapidly increasing to fulfill that "fantasy". It won't be called doomsday if they are few who are to be destroyed.

It's a fantasy that is becoming more real as the days goes by.

He is? Says who? How much time has McCain spent in Parsleys church?

McCain must be the most compromised public figure on the planet - he's proven himself to be malleable beyond measure and the most changeable candidate running for office in recent times.

In truth, he'll solicit support from anyone, endorse any policy, and in short, kiss anybody's a** to get elected. This is the best Karl Rove and the GOP have to offer as a Bush replacement.

He's potentially the most dangerous man alive in our immediate future (post Bush/Cheney of course), and certainly one of the oldest to be walking around without scruples of his own. He figures he can pick those up later after he's elected. Maybe Hagee, Parsley, and Robertson can be of help. McCain seems to think so.........

We've come to a sorry impasse in the USA when someone as utterly ordinary, used up, and over the hill as McCain is actually within striking distance of the Presidency of this fair land - and as the successor to such an abysmal failure as George W. Bush at that. This is how the powers that be want it, to be sure.

Our own small-minded limits will seal our fate if this comes to pass........

Jake wrote : "I really, really wish we had a purely secular candidate, for once."

If there was one, he/she was wise enough to drop out even before the race had began. He could hardly win even with all his/her supporters voting ten times.

Secularists/atheists can't win here on earth, nor in heaven. They are losers everywhere. Fools in the eyes of God.

Surveys even shows they are more unhappy than coservatives.

I hope Jacques will have a good story this coming friday. For once, let your tribe be happy.

It's convenient for some to ignore the fact that McCain *solicited* Hagee's endorsement. He could have left the good pastor and his lunacy out on the lawn, but McCain *chose* to drag them along to the political tea party on the bottom of his shoe. So now McCain sits there, munching canapes and sweating bullets, hoping no one will notice that the stains on the white shag carpeting lead to him.

Barack Obama has been nearly forced into repeating his commitment to Christianity at every stop on his journey, remind you of anyone else's journey, because of the Internet smear campaign to brand him as a Muslim and either an active agent for or an unwitting agent of Al Qaeda.

This requirement that he prove his commitment to Christianity is unbecoming our nation, but not unsurprising in a nation that largely ignores much of the teachings of Christ but condemns those who don't pretend to do so like they do.

Meanwhile, the power of the majority religion in our nation even leaks onto the sports page. The day after the Washington Nationals won its opneing game, the Washington Post emblazoned its sports page with a headline that included the word "CHRISTENED."

In a multi-cultural community and with a franchise owned by a Jewish family, the Post used that word to describe the team's first game. It is that kind of brazen insensitivity that the minority culture must put up with all the time.

It's time for America's Christians to put a sock in it and stop trying to make America a "Christian" nation.

GaryD,

What about Rod Parsley (McCain's official spiritual advisor) who said Islam is a "false religion" and should be "destroyed"?

Is this not religious bigotry?

Shouldn't McCain denounce Parsley just as Obama has denounced Wright?

Because McCain hasn't been attending Hagee's church for 20 odd years.

While I often like what Jacques Berlinerblau writes, I wish he would get his personal pronouns in order. The following is a pretentious mistake in today's column

"Watch Sally Quinn and I discuss St. Hillary and other God Vote issues: Whatever happened to St. Hillary?"

Paul Alper

Odd that few, if any, call politicians who play the religion card on violating one of the Ten Commandments - i.e., taking the Lord's name in vain. Or is He really interested in being trotted out for the sake of self-serving politicians?

Pray tell, why is John Hagee's endorsement of McCain less damaging than the relationship between Wright and Obama? Have you read any of Hagee's unhinged pronouncements? Hagee is just as noxious and toxic as Robertson -- another McCain endorser. You know Robertson surely? The one who said that 9/11 was God's punishment for America's tolerance for homosexuals, feminists, and the like? Hagee is just as bad. Moreover, both of these sorry characters are racist to the core.

Why is it that it is O.K. for noxious crackpots to endorse Republicans, but it is an unforgivable sin when some of the same are close to Democratic candidates?

The only reasonable answer is that there is a double standard.

Obama , the only question is does he believe wright's hate, or did he just use it to get ahead?

either way the man's belief system is garbage

The disarray among believers is welcome. Believers are no more to be respected than voodoo priestesses.

Ok Cindy, you're right we should thank the believers. So Thank you for George W Bush and his cronies
Thank you for a war without end
Thank you for over four thousand additional American deaths
Thank you for an economy rapidly going down the tubes
Thank you for skyrocketing fuel costs and further enriching the Bush family and friends
Thank you for continually conflating politics and religion so that real issues are ignored in favor of discussing who's imaginary friend in the sky is the best
Thank you for the hatred and bigotry you and people like you espouse against fellow American citizens while claiming to follow the beliefs a man who advised us to "love thy neighbor"
And finally, thank you for proving Charles Darwin right...now please continue to evolve

Speaking of candidates and religion...

www.pastorgate.com has clips and comments about Obama serving as a student of racist Reverend Wright and his commitment to the black value system.

I personally don't want a President who seeks moral advice from someone who sells inaccurate, hate filled DVDs to the public as Wright does.

The US Government did not infect black men with syphilis as Wright said. A small group of scientists did withhold penicilin from some patients but the patients already had syphilis.

The US Government did not create HIV to kill "people of color". Frankly, the fact that gay white men were the main group effected for the first 20 years of the virus sort of debunks that theory, aside from other facts.

Isn't it GREAT!?!

America's radical fundamentalists are being rejected by the electorate in keeping with the constitutional concept of separation of church and State. They are listened to appropriately, and accordingly, as the TINY MINORITY of american voters that they are.

Only the radical, dangerous, undemocratic fundamentalists in any religion want to foist their personal beliefs upon the rest of the population. This is for control of society and personal power achievement. This is true in america - and in the middle east!

When religious adhearance becomes an appropriate measurement for political office you get IRAN. When it is promoted in the military ranks you get the TALIBAN.

Currently there are many complaints arising from our military services in which fundamentalist evangelical officers are requiring adhearance to the christian faith-as-they-see-it. Our soldiers embrace this tyranny, or risk recrimination.

I believe the right of freedom of religion and separation of church and State includes freedom FROM religion. I refuse to foist mine onto others.

Lest any undereducated fundamentalists accuse me of being an atheist, (thus attacking an american exercizing his lawful rights, BTW) I'll say I'm extremely close with God and keep our relationship to myself, thanks.

Its "NUNYA"!

What is this an April Fool joke?Politics and religion do not mix!

Cindy...wow! So basically you're saying "we screwed this up real bad with Bush, so let us put another bible thumper in there that will do what he did in the first place"? You have to be kidding? Next, the weather is not a warning sign from god. It's a warning from the planet to shape up and respect the environment. Next, what do homosexuals have to do with anything? Just had to throw them in there huh? Next, remember that 9-11 happened under the rule of one of your so-called "christian" presidents. Finally, how do you know what god approves of? You don't...you just think you do.

Cindy writes: "This Nation was built on Biblical principles ..."

Then why doesn't the U.S. Constitution mention any gods or bibles?

And why does it begin with "We the people ..." instead?

And why does it prohibit any religious oath for those serving in our government?

And why does it prohibit Congress from establishing any religion?

Why did the founders abandon god(s) in our supreme foundational legal document?

I don't get it? I guess I'm just a little bit confused!

Without the Evangelicals the McCain can't win. By the way before you trust anything Hagee says you better get at least two or three more sources to verify his words. Unless God brings Hagee to repent of his shallow money grubbing theology Hagee will be standing with the goats at the second coming and he'll have a lot of company among the prosperity theology crowd.

To be sure there are some among the Republicans who want to sump the evangelicals. Newt mentions them frequently in his latest book which by the way ought to be required reading for anybody interested in discussing American politics.

This Nation was built on Biblical principles. God Blesses a nation that seeks after him. There are many examples in the Bible that nations that abandoned God were distroyed. The way this nation is headed unless this Nation repents for the wickedness it's guilty of United States may face the same fate. The Blood of Millions of Infants are on this nations hands. The Immorality, Crimes, The Lord knows all the Sins this nation's guilty of. Homosexual behavior is an abomination before the Lord. Disrepecting The Lord.
Instead of Christian bashing Thank The Believers for their intercession if it were not for them this nation would face worse than 9-11 now.
But I believe The Lord is sending us Stong WARNING SIGNS with the weather. It's time for this nation to come back to God NOW! The Christians don't want this nation to become another Sodom and Gomorrah that is why we want someone in the President's office who has morals and values God APPROVES.
Cindy Murphy

Given Karl Rove's "informal" advisement of the McCain campaign, Obama's Wright problem could have probably been predicted the instant McCain solicited Hagee's endorsement; classic Rovian misdirection. Clinton knows the depths to which Turd Blossom can sink, especially in regard to religious issues, and has been smart enough not to let her theology or denomination create any kind of obvious target for him.

Unfortunately for McCain, my own conservative Catholic Republican mother will be staying away from the polls in November. He and his advisers would seem to have woefully over-played the religion card this time around. As a consequence, it wouldn't surprise me if the "secularist vote" may be judged to be more pivotal than the religious one in this election.

Re: "Hillary Clinton’s Religious Campaigning is Rather Muted. True, she is always ready with a scriptural verse or reminiscences of her days in Methodist Bible study classes. Yet for the most part the Senator's approach to Faith and Values politicking is mostly defensive and preemptive: she seems more prepared to ward off accusations that she is a godless liberal than she is equipped to aggressively target religious constituencies. I am not sure why that is. Perhaps, she recognized--wisely--that this is Obama’s game. Or maybe she is not comfortable doing protracted God Talk."

Perhaps the answer is rather simple, Methodists are known to be more inclined to "judge by our deeds of love and justice," more than our words or posturing. "By their love shall ye know them." While Methodists have a history of proclamation, we also have a history of encouraging "good works." I think its not "defensive" to stay out of the shouting about whose more religious, and more in keeping with Hillary's Methodist upbringing that emphasizes more "action" than "God talk."

Can't argue with your observations. And, can't wait for Friday either. However, let the gloating begin.

Told ya. The GOP is dumping evangelicals and 'main line' Democrat represented by the Clinton gang isn't rushing to take them in.

Obama brings Gomer Pyle to mind -surprise surprise surprise. But before he could be crowned up pops Jeremiah. Surprise squared.

The trouble with secular types is their lack of organization. Ordinarily that would mean they are Democrats, (lack of organization). There might just be a few of them that are 'real' conservatives.

If mixing religion and politics weren't fun we'd need something else. And, there's no shortage of that, other stuff. Now take investor Joe Lewis who put 7-8 hundred million into Bear Sterns for example. All that capital loss carry forward is the latest thing in, "tax breaks for the rich." His next 7-8 hundred million capital gains are tax free. Politics and other stuff related?

We will never know why evangelicals have been orphaned for sure but for sure "it's the economy stupid" is back in vogue complete with "tax break for the rich." Maybe, "go to your churches, temples, synagogues, mosques and pray" will make a political comeback too?

I really, really wish we had a purely secular candidate, for once. Someone who doesn't quote Bible verses or claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus. Even my hyper-catholic mother rolls her eyes when a candidate espouses God. Some secularists have a lot of strength in their faith, which is why they don't need or want to see it politicized. As long as religion was kept a private matter, I wouldn't care if I was voting for an atheist or a seventh-day adventist.