Obama at the crossroads on religious liberty

I'm afraid this is one area where I cannot be enthusiastic about our foreign policy as carried out in practice. In Iraq, for example, President Bush seemed to go in with deliberate lack of preparation as to culture and with the intent to favor one Muslim sect over another. The resulting religious conflict (and harm to bystanders such as Christians and Jews) is hardly surprising. Our Israeli / Palestinian policy seems to have seriously harmed Christians in Palestine. The one religion we spend real money and diplomatic effort to support is Scientology, which smacks more of a business. Perhaps copies of "Dianetics" are considered an important American export?

I would have to agree with the Obama administration on this. The muslim men who throw rape victims in jail are no doubt just practicing their religion, at least in their minds. A term like "religious freedom" is just too open ended. Evangelicals feel that their religion requires them to evangelize and no doubt they will use "religious freedom' as an open-ended cover for trying to covert people of other faiths. The last thing the US needs is more naive but legally empowered christians running around other countries stirring up anger.

Who are you people? Do you have a life? Talk about blowhards!

The last thing the United States needs do is stick its nose in the culture and religion of other countries around the world. As for a god that would destroy the world, that isn't much of a god to say the least. Who in his right mind would even think of such a thing being justifiable except the stupid, ignorant and just plain evil?

Spidermean: Prove the correlation between earthquakes and morality or shut up with that absolute garbage.

So we have to promote religious freedom to protect people from...religion....

Clever

"Theocracy" necessarily requires "theocrats" to function, and if there are no "theocrats" with the power to dictate how do you end up with a "theocracy"?
-------------------------------
No theocrats?! Look again. And look at the unholy alliance of Protestants and Catholics seeking to thwart same-sex marriage and prohibit choice.

Ask those Protestants and Catholics who cringe at the sight of them.

muawiyah,

Of course, you do not seem to have a point. The United States declared the people sovereign, in effect. Hence, we do not (in theory) follow the religion of the president.

Westphalia was a way out from under the pope. It did allow minorities limited rights.

We are headed toward a religious state, if we are not, in some sense there. When you have "conscience clauses," waivers to Christian organizations permitting them to discriminate in hiring, Sen. Ben Nelson, et al, who unabashedly proclaim that they will not sign off on legislation unacceptable to the "bishops," you've got my attention, Establishment-wise. Ditto, faith based programs.

I could go on. It's a long list.

Yes indeed! The religious cruelties that religion imposes on people, especially women, need to be addressed AND eliminated.... BUT PLEASE DON'T FORGET THE VATICAN’s CHRISTIAN imposition against WOMEN’S FREEDOM OF REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE !!! AND COUPLES' FREEDOM TO USE CONTRACEPTIVES!

Like many of the current idiotic religious cruelties around the world, the Vatican’s cruel dogma dates back several centuries, when it was heretical to think that the Earth circles around the sun, and heretics should be tortured and executed – in horrible ways.

FARNAZMANSOURI ~ of course you are totally wrong.

BTW, the Treaty of Westphalia applied to NATION STATES. In fact, it's considered the beginning of the current way of thinking of NATION STATES.

The religious component, although important, is currently looked at as a minor element.

The US religious freedom standards preceded the writing of the Constitution. The First Amendment merely reflects the pre-existing right. As does the Second Amendment and, for those who know how Louis XIV enforced Catholicism in France, the Third Amendment guarantees Protestantism.

I fail to comprehend how there's some sort of Theocracy ~ the greater part of our population adhere to Christian forms that simply don't have any office senior to elder in a Congregation.

Are you suspicious of the Roman Catholic Church perhaps? Or, do you imagine the guys with the tall hats over at the Orthodox groups are going to sweep in and kidnap Congress?

"Theocracy" necessarily requires "theocrats" to function, and if there are no "theocrats" with the power to dictate how do you end up with a "theocracy"?

WOODYAG ~ Hmmm ~ are you dead yet?

That's what you said ~ all the folks who say what you said get killed.

I'm waiting.

Please notify me when it happens.

The Treaty of Westphalia marked a beginning and a rather primitive one at that.

The US, that remarkable experiment, took it leagues forward with the Establishment Clause.
The people would not follow the religion of the sovereign because the people would be SOVEREIGN.

However, during the last few years, many Americans seem to have forgotten this. They are striving for religious hegemony, and, to an extent they have been successful.

Theocracy, anyone?

Spidermean2 ~ and whoever else copied or made or evinced an interest in the idea that "No one nation has the right to force its political or religious systems on other nations or peoples."

That's the fundamental principle behind The Peace of Westphalia ~ which ended the series of conflicts called "The Thirty Years War".

Interesting that this doctrine is a consequence of a TREATY and not derivative of a natural right.

At one time it was considered right and proper to force the conversion of conquered people, or when the king changed religion.

Those who refused to adhere to the new faith (or the variation on an existing faith) could be killed, or tortured until they recanted ~ and no one would object.

European Christian countries signed the treaty ~ Orthodox Christians didn't sign on ~ troubled as they were at the time with really bad weather (in Russia) or Moslems (in the Balkans).

The Moslems and other non-Christians didn't sign on to Westphalian documents either.

This creates a serious problem for folks in the West who think that nations don't really have a right to force it's religious systems on others.

Moslems and other non-Catholic/Protestant Christians still believe it's a right, if not a duty, of theirs to force their religious systems on those they conquor.

So, what ya' gonna' do when you find yourself fighting such folks. Ann Coulter suggested we adopt their moral standards and fight (and defeat) them on the same basis ~ at the end of which we'd kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

Remember, their intention is to convert you should they managed to defeat our nation's military forces. They'll have your tush in the air and your head on the ground praying to Allah in a heartbeat (and I'm really not sure what we'll have to do if the Orthodox ever get the upper hand ~ they didn't sign on either).

Spidermean,

There are problems with Never Again, as many Shoah survivors remarked. It happened again and again and again. In Biafra, Cambodia, Rwanda, Sudan, Yugoslavia, etc. It had happened before. With Armenia, slavery, genocide of the "New World," mass murders of Jews and Muslims by Christians.

The Shoah destroyed two-thirds of the Jews of Europe, anhilated them. One third remained. Of Jews in the world, one third was lost. Generations later, we still see the consequences of the horror.

Almost worse, is the endless lying, the sanitizing of the event, the bewildering b.s. that it all took place in concentration camps. This ignores the thousands of Lithuanian, Ukranian, Latvian, Polish, French, Rumanian, Hungarian church-going folk who simply thought it a good time to go out and kill Jews. We have pictures of them, photographs.

There are pictures, photographs, from Rwanda, Yugoslavia, etc. Photographs.

Spidermean2 ~ and whoever else copied or made or evinced an interest in the idea that "No one nation has the right to force its political or religious systems on other nations or peoples."

That's the fundamental principle behind The Peace of Westphalia ~ which ended the series of conflicts called "The Thirty Years War".

Interesting that this doctrine is a consequence of a TREATY and not derivative of a natural right.

At one time it was considered right and proper to force the conversion of conquered people, or when the king changed religion.

Those who refused to adhere to the new faith (or the variation on an existing faith) could be killed, or tortured until they recanted ~ and no one would object.

European Christian countries signed the treaty ~ Orthodox Christians didn't sign on ~ troubled as they were at the time with really bad weather (in Russia) or Moslems (in the Balkans).

The Moslems and other non-Christians didn't sign on to Westphalian documents either.

This creates a serious problem for folks in the West who think that nations don't really have a right to force it's religious systems on others.

Moslems and other non-Catholic/Protestant Christians still believe it's a right, if not a duty, of theirs to force their religious systems on those they conquor.

So, what ya' gonna' do when you find yourself fighting such folks. Ann Coulter suggested we adopt their moral standards and fight (and defeat) them on the same basis ~ at the end of which we'd kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity.

Remember, their intention is to convert you should they managed to defeat our nation's military forces. They'll have your tush in the air and your head on the ground praying to Allah in a heartbeat (and I'm really not sure what we'll have to do if the Orthodox ever get the upper hand ~ they didn't sign on either).

Deathfugue

by Paul Celan
Paul Celan
Black milk of daybreak we drink it at evening
we drink it at midday and morning we drink it at night
we drink and we drink
we shovel a grave in the air where you won't lie too cramped
A man lives in the house he plays with his vipers he writes
he writes when it grows dark to Deutschland your golden hair Margareta
he writes it and steps out of doors and the stars are all sparkling he whistles his hounds to stay close
he whistles his Jews into rows has them shovel a grave in the ground
he commands us play up for the dance

Black milk of daybreak we drink you at night
we drink you at morning and midday we drink you at evening
we drink and we drink
A man lives in the house he plays with his vipers he writes
he writes when it grows dark to Deutschland your golden hair Margareta
Your ashen hair Shulamith we shovel a grave in the air where you won't live too cramped

He shouts dig this earth deeper you lot there you others sing up and play
he grabs for the rod in his belt he swings it his eyes are so blue
stick your spades deeper you lot there you others play on for the dancing

Black milk of daybreak we drink you at night
we drink you at midday and morning we drink you at evening
we drink and we drink
a man lives in the house your goldenes Haar Margareta
your aschenes Haar Shulamith he plays with his vipers
. . .

He shouts play death more sweetly this Death is a master from Deutschland
he shouts scrape your strings darker you'll rise up as smoke to the sky
you'll then have a grave in the clouds where you won't lie too cramped

Black milk of daybreak we drink you at night
we drink you at midday Death is a master aus Deutschland
we drink you at evening and morning we drink and we drink
this Death is ein Meister aus Deutschland his eye it is blue
he shoots you with shot made of lead shoots you level and true
a man lives in the house your goldenes Haar Margarete
he looses his hounds on us grants us a grave in the air
he plays with his vipers and daydreams der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland

dein goldenes Haar Margarete
dein aschenes Haar Sulamith

On the other hand, America should be careful not to expand its stupidity offshore like what Bill Clinton is doing.

While as a U.N ambassador in Haiti, he was busy preaching the "virtues" of gay sex around the world. Im not sure if the earthquake in Haiti was a product of that idiocy to keep him busy in the proper way.

China existed for thousands of years and it is only now that it experience wealth when they copy America's way of doing things.

If America had not helped China one way or the other, it would just be another big Japanese possession or province.

Im not even sure if Mao has even 1 percent chance of leading a platoon. He'd be crushed immediately.

The reason why even China has a big voice today is because of its good neighbor, America, who constantly believe in freedom of thought and religion and thus gave it a voice by putting Japan in its proper place 65 years ago.

All these idiots who have big voices today never realized that the freedom of religion doctrine has extended their existence. In the near future, they may
not be that fortunate anymore. Sometimes, oppurtunity knocks only once.

Hi Spidermean,

Yes, we are our brothers' keeper.

But who is "we"? Why do the many "we's" have only some brothers, or none?

A century of genocide.

Anyway, God has already declared it and no power on earth can stop it.

"that the oppressed will be set free..."
"that the oppressed will be set free..."

These are the words of God himself and nobody can disannul it.

Doomsday is coming to weed out all those who are hindrance to these words.

Nobody can disannul a prophecy. It's coming but with a great price -- the destruction of almost half of mankind.

No one nation has the right to force its political or religious systems on other nations or peoples. If there are to be universal civil rights they must come from a global governing board, not any one country, which will simply lead to more and more wars, which I realize the rich in America are all for as they are making fortunes on these endless wars.

Posted by: revgeorge

-------

Easy to say than do. Where is that global governing board when Rwanda was in a state of genocide? Where is that global governing board when Cambodia was named the killing fields?

Are these idiotic global governing boards willing to send troops to restore order?

There are millions of people who think like Revgeorge and these idiots are the ones which make the world a dangerous place. All talk and no substance until it's too late for any peaceful solution.

It is getting more difficult to avoid mentioning religious freedom within the context of cultural imperialism, regardless of whether it is Judeo-Christian tradition, Islam, or Asian religions.

You can go back to the 19th century and the Christian-backed Taiping Rebellion in China. American protestant missionaries were involved in creating The Heavenly Kingdom that attempted to crush traditional Chinese religion and implement a moralistic Christian theocracy. It got spun from a military civil war to genocide of ordinary citizens. Bottom line, number of Chinese killed = Holocaust x 2.5 or 20 million. I read on the Wickypedia that Lord Gladstone, the British primie minister sold arms and military know how to both sides. Mao used it as an example of popular revolution. But, hey, he was on the pad with Washington during World War II so go figure.

It is a matter of world security, not only the security of America. If a place has no freedom of religion, it tends to be dictatorial and like any dictatorial states like North Korea, Cuba, etc, they become threats not only to their people but to the rest of the world.

If only these talking idiots in this forum know about history, they would know that nations have been killing each other because of coercive religious practices.

The Dark Age was just one of the chaotic periods in human history when there was no religious freedom.

Don't worry coz history repeats itself and you idiots will soon taste the fruits of what you wish for.

No one nation has the right to force its political or religious systems on other nations or peoples. If there are to be universal civil rights they must come from a global governing board, not any one country, which will simply lead to more and more wars, which I realize the rich in America are all for as they are making fortunes on these endless wars.

Seems to me that it would be a lot better if all religions were eliminated from the earth.

They are the cause of most of mankind's misery as this idiotic article unknowingly points out.

It is ironic that the United States, which for so many years, has permitted Vatican Nation to enjoy simultaneously the status of (a) sovereign nation immune to law suits (b) tax exempt religion (c) unregistered foreign lobbyist (d) criminal pedophile gang above the law (e) money launderer, now wants to reach out to other religions.

On money-laundering: United STates is fully aware that Vatican Nation is again being investigated in Italy for mafia money-laundering, this time in the amount of 200,000,000. The mafia is responsible for gun-running, drug-running, child and adult prostitution, slavery, terrorism, etc.

The most recent mafia hit was the Italian journalist Porschoni, whose investigation resulted in the imprisonment of 100 mafiosi.
Knowing his days were numbered and that his family was endangered, he would not permit them to drive on the highway, the site where payback was most likely to occur. For him, the highway was a necessity. The mafia BLEW UP the HIGHWAY.

Vatican Bank is the eighth largest destination for money-laundering, ahead of Lichtenstein, the Bahamas, and Switzerland.

On money-laundering and mass murder: The United states is also aware that 200 card-carrying Nazi priests cut living Serbian Orthodox, Jews, and Roma to pieces with scissors and watched them bleed to death. The US knows that the same Nazi priests impaled the living and watched them drown. The US is aware that the Nazi priests incited their co-Catholic Croats to slaughter 700,000 people, stole what they had and deposited it in Vatican Nation's Vatican Bank.

The United States, however, has denied the surviving victims and their heirs the right to sue Vatican Nation, because Vatican Nation enjoys the privilege of Sovereign Nation (Status A, above). The plaintiffs are appealing again.

Under these miserable circumstances, perhaps it is best that we not "reach out" religiously or in any other way, to any other nation. Our house is filthy.

...'Whats wrong with showing the world who we are, "THEY WILL KHOW WE ARE CHRISTIANS BY OUR LOVE..."BY OUR LOVE; "YES THEY WILL KNOW WE ARE CHRISTIANS BY OUR LOVE."

..."This is who we are as Christians/American's who seek diplomacy, over War, Cooperation over destruction, and PEACE above all else." We are a nation of one. America has along way to go, to teaching what we are really about to the world, they see us as WAR/MONGERS thanks to the "Blew it Bush Administration who RUINED AMERICA'S IMAGE AROUND THE WORLD/FACT!

..."Thank God, President Barack was elected, I voted for him, glad I did, he's doing a great job repairing the great damage the Republicans of the "Blew it Bush Administration did to America's image.

This is what my professor Department Chair of History had to say about the "Blew it Bush Administration, "WHAT BUSH AND THE REPUBLICANS..."Tommy have done to the United States is CRIMINAL!

..."That's 35 years Department Chair History ETSU talking folks, then he turned and walked away...

I believe the "Living God" will help us will also clean up the Oil Spill for us, and will deliver the United States from any foe or enemy, because "God is with us."

..."Sincerely, Tommy Birchfield...

..."Let your hope make you glad." "Be Patient In Times Of Trouble" AND NEVER STOP PRAYING." --Romans 12:12

It is ironic that the U.S having had a pro- Zionist foreign policy in the middle east for so long should now champion religious freedom overseas.

Thomas Fak, america has no business converting people who are not chrsitian. In this commision why you only chrsitians why u don't have hindus or budhhist. This is nothing but proseltyzing by America. Want to convert whole wolrd to christianity.

This article reflects the worst of our culture. We have too many freaking preachers already. It is not the State Department's or president's job to be the world's nanny, preacher or savior.

It is not our job to be intolerant of other nation's religions, religious practices or their views on crime and punishment. We have our own human rights violations and misconduct everyday - like the Rodney King incident or what happened last month in Seattle. The chief job of our diplomats should be MYOB.

There are factual copies of the original words, deeds and intent of America's founding fathers available for anyone intellectually interested in being factual when they write comments such as these written here.

Of course, the only people interested in reading this information would be those that wish to speak with authority as to how our country's deep connection with God and Christianity was founded and on what tenants.

Obama has been the most destructive president where faith and God are concerned. 'We are not a Christian nation,' he spouts to the world while looking like an ill-prepared school boy at his first school play. Since when, Mr. Progressive President? Since when has America, which was founded on Christian values and God-related freedoms, not been a Christian nation, since you took office? Obama refuses to pray with protestants, buy bows to his belly button for Muslims in the White House. What the heck, does he think 'we the stupid people' won't notice? Ugh!

We have a Muslim president pretending to fight our enemy, Muslim zealots! We've got a 'conflict of interest' here, folks!

The issue goes beyond the mythical Jesus, eminent water skier of NT fame, sons of God, daughters of God, cousins, moms, and puppies of God.

The situation of B'hai and Christians in Iraq, Iran, Syria, of Christians in Egypt and Pakistan is desperate. DESPERATE.

I am one of three million Iranian Jews in exile. Jews were tortured, murdered, displaced from their ancient homelands in the Middle East, most recently in Yemen, which had a Jewish population 3500 years old.

A few weeks ago, a young rabbi was murdered by a lunatic, as lunatic islamists raided rural Jewish communities, shrieking "Convert or die."

We should not continue to ignore the plight of Christians throughout the Middle East, of Christians in Pakistan, who are enslaved, of the B'hai.

What does the country stand for?
-------------------
On the matter of Lord Jesus Christ, who walks (and water skis among us), see below.

Hopefully, Lord Jesus Christ was sufficiently recovered to participate in National Prayer Day.
-------------------------------------

Lord Jesus Christ hit by Mass. car

The Associated Press
Friday, May 7, 2010; 8:34 AM

NORTHAMPTON, Mass. -- The victim might have forgiven the woman who ran him down in a Massachusetts crosswalk, but police haven't.

Police say a Pittsfield woman has been cited for running down a man named Lord Jesus Christ as he crossed a street in Northampton on Tuesday.

The 50-year-old man is from Belchertown. Officers checked his ID and discovered that, indeed, his legal name is Lord Jesus Christ. He was taken to the hospital for treatment of minor facial injuries.

Police say 20-year-old Brittany Cantarella was cited for failing to yield to a pedestrian in a crosswalk.

Continuing:

Reality Repeated For Mr. Farr As Needed to Counter the Myths Perpetuated in the Torah/OT/NT and Koran:

The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (IRF)'s job would be a lot easier if they simply promulgated the following message:

4. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the massacre in Mumbai, the assassinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder

Reality Repeated For Mr. Farr As Needed to Counter the Myths Perpetuated in the Torah/OT/NT and Koran:

The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (IRF)'s job would be a lot easier if they simply promulgated the following message:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a
mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.
Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

Current problem:

Realization that the Jews are not god's chosen people.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current problems:

Pedophiliac priests, "bloody" wafers, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

3. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current problems:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology.

As we have learned many times in the past; selling "American values" abroad is difficult when we are ourselves hypocritical.

Many abroad scoff at our "religious freedom". One of the hypocrisies they point to is our abortion battle.

There is no question about it- abortion is purely a religious problem. Everyone abroad sees this lucidly. Catholics and evangelical fundamentalists have decided for everyone else what the "truth" is- and they silence - even kill - anyone who says differently.

When exactly "human life" begins is not a scientific question. Ask any scientist. It's religious. Only. My religion does NOT tell me it's at conception. On the contrary.

But- in the wonderfully free USA- anyone who tries to cry "religious freedom" around an abortion discussion - is immediately silenced. And laws are passed restricting my religious choices.

Hypocrisy is a lousy product to try to peddle. Anybody else remember the bit about the beam in your own eye?

Which particular brand of "religious freedom" shall the United States defend or promote? Is Mr.Farr aware of a particular religious "branding" going on in diplomatic circles, international relations between political officials, and military institutions, as regards to Christianity? Jeff Sharlet's writing would be an excellent point of reference for Mr. Farr.

Gibberish. America, clean your own house first. Keep religion out of politics.

Can't change human nature.

Leave the rest of the world alone. Hopefully, the oppressed can take down their oppressors.

Attend for once, to this country's affairs and needs of its people.

By the way, it's pure hypocrisy to critise China, as corporate greed has BETRAYED U.S. citizens and given those "oppressors" economic leverage over us. The Chinese system may suck wind, but we're forced to buy everything made by them.

The idiocy in evolution is the belief that soil and water can form brains just by waiting for millions of years.

The "millions of years" is important in their doctrine so there will be no way to test it in the lab. Theoretically,it can't be possible so they have to focus on "millions of years".

Now how many people became idiots just by believing this crap? Billions. What a mess evolution have done to this world.

These idiots even insult humans by insisting that chimps were their relatives. They can't even explain why the chimps can't even utter a single human word.

Try the word "DUMB".

All Americans that think we can impose our secular gov't and religious freedom on the rest of the world don't deal in reality. Strong religious movements in communist countries are put down, Serbs practiced genocide on Kosovo muslims, Iraq has driven out Christians, Iran all not Shia, Pakistan all not muslim. Even within beliefs different sects go after each other. Sunni vs Shia, Protestant Orange against IRA Catholics, peaceful Hindu's allowing Islam/Christianity Sikhs pushing a theocratic agenda. Even here many places that never elect people of a different faith regardless of their platform. Mormons win in Utah, Evangelicals in the Bible belt, Catholics in Boston, atheists/agnostics don't win anywhere being more than 10% of the population. Gay bashing is acceptable, creationism with 99% of scientific evidence against is taught in our schools, because of religious belief.

The issue is not the religious freedom but freedom from any religion based on a hypothesized superior being. It has been used to rationalize and institutionalize discrimination based upon race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, age, physical and intellectual differences, wealth and .... We should respect everyone'e freedom to believe in one's own belief's but that does not necessarily translate into superimposing his/her beliefs on others using coesrsion based upon one or more of the aspects listed above. And that includes the US where a Supreme Court consisting of five catholic males want to impose their interpretation of the US constitution based upon their religious beliefs on others who have different interpretations. So the US must expand its tolerance intrnally before it advises others even though they are more oppressive - Catholics and evangelicals among them.

America has spent billions of dollars and sacrificed thousands of lives and limbs and yet it cannot finish the job correctly in Afghanistan and Iraq by not imposing freedom of religion.

The Pentagon even bent to the demands of stupidity around them by burning the Bibles. But you can't please stupidity. It will swallow you whole and in time, the Pentagon will realize its big mistake.

Studies have PROVEN the higher a persons IQ, the less likely they are to be either conservative or religious.
In other words, the religious right is composed of mental midgets.
Religions are the bane of humanity. They promote hate and ignorance.

To perpetuate the rites, rituals and superstitions of our primitive ancestors is nothing short of insane. Religions have caused the majority of suffering mankind has endures over the ages. Its time we evolved beyond the mentality of cavemen.
Peace and harmony will only be achieved after we eliminate the insanity of religions.

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Obama will never take a stand in favor of religious freedom, or in favor of other human rights,either. He has made it abundantly clear that he is "reaching out" to the "Muslim world". He bowed to the king of Saudi Arabia -- the same king who supervises the beheading of people who commit "blasphemy" and "sorcery". The entire Muslim world, of which Saudi Arabia is the head, rejects our Universal Declaration of Human Rights which guarantees freedom of religion, gender equality and other principles at the heart of our civilization. Instead, the entire Moslem world subscribes to their Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam which makes Islam superior to everything else and which states unequivocally that all human rights must be in accord with Islamic sacred sharia law. For Obama to stand up for human rights means to attack the Islam at its core. He will never do that.

The very phrase "religious freedom" is biased against certain beliefs. While it may allow for beliefs that reject religion, it assumes the opposite. This is typical of organized religion, the utter failure to accept that they might be wrong.
There is nothing wrong with the phrase "freedom of belief" but that is in consistent with the ideological goals of religions.

ccnl1 (aka yeal9) is an over-educated, elitist, Catholic pensioner man/woman who suffers from delusional senility and symptoms of Alzheimer's as evidenced by his incessant cutting and pasting the same thing over and over again; and who has been characterized anywhere from the paranoid to a neurotic character from his/her Catholic upbringing and education. Analyses of ccnl1's posts by many contemporary "On Faith" bloggers have concluded that only about 30% of ccnl1's sayings and ways noted in "On Faith" are authentic - the rest being embellishments (e.g. pontifications/hallucinations) made/had by His/Her Holy Excellency to insult various Christian, Jewish, Muslim and Pagan sects as well as gays and feminists

Of course, the US prefers to point it's twisted, judgmental fingers at the Middle East rather than looking closer to home.

To wit:

Sexual terrorism against children Catholic priests followed by racketeering and obstruction of justice by Church authorities hiding, aiding and abetting the same.

Mormon persecution of and discrimination against gays including torture in the form of electroshock "therapy" to cure them and forming a huge multi-state PAC to support anti-gay political issues in violation of their tax exempt status.

Catholics in the southern part of North America (Chiapas, Mexico) persecuting and driving out protestants from schools, cemeteries and sometimes their own land.

Meddling in the affairs of others before looking at their own problems is the hallmark of religion in America.

Then Jesus returned to Galilee, filled with the Holy Spirit’s power. Reports about him spread quickly through the whole region. He taught regularly in their synagogues and was praised by everyone.

When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went as usual to the synagogue on the Sabbath and stood up to read the Scriptures. The scroll of Isaiah the prophet was handed to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where this was written:

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,

for he has anointed me to bring Good News to the poor.

He has sent me to proclaim that captives will be released,

that the blind will see,

that the oppressed will be set free,

and that the time of the Lord’s favor has come.”

He rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down. All eyes in the synagogue looked at him intently. Then he began to speak to them. “The Scripture you’ve just heard has been fulfilled this very day!”

"that the oppressed will be set free..."
"that the oppressed will be set free..."

These are the words of God himself and nobody can disannul it.

Doomsday is coming to weed out all those who are hindrance to these words.

Nobody can disannul a prophecy. It's coming but with a great price -- the destruction of almost half of mankind.

Where there is freedom of religion, there is true democracy. America is in danger of being clobbered by nations which don't practice religious freedom plus countries which practices stealth atheism called evolution.

Doomsday is coming because the world has become a dangerous place.

The best defense is imposing religious freedom. But it's too late for that. Destruction will have to come first because the infection caused by coercive false religions (that includes forced evolution education) has become ireversible.

Where there is freedom of religion, there is true democracy. America is in danger of being clobbered by nations which don't practice religious freedom plus countries which practices stealth atheism called evolution.

Doomsday is coming because the world has become a dangerous place.

The best defense is imposing religious freedom. But it's too late for that. Destruction will have to come first before the infection caused by coercive false religions (that includes forced evolution education) has become ireversible.

America needs to focus on restoring economic stability within its borders and getting Americans back to work.

We are of no use to other countries until we are able to get back on solid ground.

America has been so busy sticking its nose [and our tax dollars] into the affairs of other countries that it neglected the needs of it's own people and today we are paying dearly for the eogists who brought us to this.

With our floundering congress and knee-jerk reactionist president, I'm amazed this country is still able to tread water. Hopefully, after the elections, we can install a congress that works for Americans first, and banishes Obama to the WH bowling alley and media room where he can do no further damage to our country.

When other countries are ready to change their government style, they will do it ... and to the chagrin of eogist Americans who have the ill-conceived notion that no country can do anything without our help, they will suffer from severe ego deflation when these countries succeed on their own.

Persiflage: Yours is a very sensible commentary. As you said, We are only one nation in a global alliance of Western democratic nations -- an alliance that is very loose. We cannot police the world. We cannot bring about religious freedom in other countries--we just barely have it in this country.

Most Americans claim to be in favor of religious freedom, but most want laws that actually favor their religious views. Religion is a great maker of enemies. The only way for a government to stamp out religion related discrimination and violence is to stamp out religion -- another seemingly impossible task.

Our foreign policy regarding religion should be 1. based on a firm commitment to religious freedom and separation of church and state here at home, in America; 2. should be directed at opposing violence and discrimination of any kind at home and abroad; 3. should show by example the benefits of an open, democratic, non-violent society. Our foreign policy 1. should not in any way attempt to force our religious or political system on other countries 2. should not in any way favor a particular religion, Christianity or other.

Any other foreign policy is futile.

What religion(s) and what freedom(s) are we alluding to here?

From Professors Crossan and Watts' book, Who is Jesus.

"That Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as the Creed states, is as certain as anything historical can ever be.

“ The Jewish historian, Josephus and the pagan historian Tacitus both agree that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea. And is very hard to imagine that Jesus' followers would have invented such a story unless it indeed happened.

“While the brute fact that of Jesus' death by crucifixion is historically certain, however, those detailed narratives in our present gospels are much more problematic. "

“My best historical reconstruction would be something like this. Jesus was arrested during the Passover festival, most likely in response to his action in the Temple. Those who were closest to him ran away for their own safety.

I do not presume that there were any high-level confrontations between Caiaphas and Pilate and Herod Antipas either about Jesus or with Jesus. No doubt they would have agreed before the festival that fast action was to be taken against any disturbance and that a few examples by crucifixion might be especially useful at the outset. And I doubt very much if Jewish police or Roman soldiers needed to go too far up the chain of command in handling a Galilean peasant like Jesus. It is hard for us to imagine the casual brutality with which Jesus was probably taken and executed. All those "last week" details in our gospels, as distinct from the brute facts just mentioned, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered."

See also Professor Crossan's reviews of the existence of Jesus in his other books especially, The Historical Jesus and also Excavating Jesus (with Professor Jonathan Reed doing the archeology discussion) .

Other NT exegetes to include members of the Jesus Seminar have published similar books with appropriate supporting references.

See also Wikipedia's review on the historical Jesus to include the Tacitus' reference to the crucifixion of Jesus.

From ask.com,

"One of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Cornelius Tacitus is a primary source for much of what is known about life the first and second centuries after the life of Jesus. His most famous works, Histories and Annals, exist in fragmentary form, though many of his earlier writings were lost to time. Tacitus is known for being generally reliable (if somewhat biased toward what he saw as Roman immorality) and for having a uniquely direct (if not blunt) writing style.

The issue goes beyond the mythical Jesus, eminent water skier of NT fame, sons of God, daughters of God, cousins, moms, and puppies of God.

The situation of B'hai and Christians in Iraq, Iran, Syria, of Christians in Egypt and Pakistan is desperate. DESPERATE.

I am one of three million Iranian Jews in exile. Jews were tortured, murdered, displaced from their ancient homelands in the Middle East, most recently in Yemen, which had a Jewish population 3500 years old.

A few weeks ago, a young rabbi was murdered by a lunatic, as lunatic islamists raided rural Jewish communities, shrieking "Convert or die."

We should not continue to ignore the plight of Christians throughout the Middle East, of Christians in Pakistan, who are enslaved, of the B'hai.

What does the country stand for?

;

This coming from the Liar in Chief that has been to Church 3 times since being in office !!!

Religious Freedom if it can be twisted and spun for HIS Political Advantage !!!

Period !!!

Mr. Obama, Mr. Biden and Mrs. Clinton are real hypocrits and liars. They are doing nothing in reference to the particular and everything to campaign to divide the country and its people! Shame on them and Mr. Gibbs and all democrats. I have never seen a more hypocritical and lying administration than this one it is ofensive and disgusting!!

Mr. T. Farr,

You need to get a new vocation. Any, every & all Governmental Officials, working abroad, no longer needs any Theologian of Religion or a Doctor of some God System.

All Government Officials, or Any Non Government Personnel or Private person and as long as he or She can Read English or other Lingo, can simply Use The 'Holy-Internet' and can Study on any Faith, Religion or Belief, Current Events World wide or Locally. Example; using "wiki" (not World Book Encyclopedia's like i did before Internet) to Study or Understand what a "FATWA" is or What "WAHHABISM" is or what is "SHIA" or "SUNNI" is etc..

Example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi

Religiosity Business in America, includes in most University, as you knew them; will be a useless Service. The Only place, as NICHE that any "ABRAHAMIC" or "VEDIC" so called Clergy-Man or Theologian or Professor of such Children's Stories will be to help bury People or do eulogies or intervene in certain but limited situations. It's time to find another job.

Did you ever hear of the word Structural Unemployment?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_unemployment

Time to accept the fact that Religion and their Clergy, in America, is having, not a slow one, but a faster Death than imagined only 3 years ago.

PS: WE saw this coming long long ago and Thank God for George Washington (a DEIST, 1 notch less than a Atheist) & similar thinking, knowing & feeling visionaries as fore Fathers/Mothers.

The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom (IRF)'s job would be a lot easier if they simply promulgated the following message:

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was either the embellishment of the lives of three different men or a
mythical character as was mythical Moses, the "Tablet-Man" who talked to burning bushes and made much magic in Egypt.
Many of the 1.5 million Conservative Jews and many of their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.

Current problem:

Realization that the Jews are not god's chosen people.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

2. Jesus was an illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter/simple preacher man who suffered from hallucinations and who has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer from Nazareth (Professor Bruce Chilton, in his book Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of Jesus’ life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists) via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added "pizzazz", Catholic/Christian theologians divided god the singularity into three persons and invented atonement as an added guilt trip for the "pew people" to go along with this trinity of overseers. By doing so, they made god the padre into god the "filicider".

Current problems:

Pedophiliac priests, "bloody" wafers, atonement theology and original sin!!!!

3. Luther, Calvin, Joe Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley, Roger Williams, the Great “Babs” et al, founders of Christian-based religions or combination religions also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingie thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

Current problems:

Adulterous preachers, "propheteering/ profiteering" evangelicals and atonement theology.

continued below:

4. Mohammed was an illiterate, womanizing, lust and greed-driven, warmongering, hallucinating Arab, who also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the massacre in Mumbai, the assassinations of Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh, the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic bombers of the trains in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani “koranics”, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases, the Taliban nut jobs, and the Filipino “koranics”.

And who funds this muck and stench of terror? The warmongering, Islamic, Shiite terror and torture theocracy of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the Sunni "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

Current crises:

The Sunni-Shiite blood feud and the warmongering, womanizing (11 wives), hallucinating founder.

5. Hinduism (from an online Hindu site) - "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’."
The caste/laborer system, reincarnation and cow worship/reverence are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

Current crises:

The caste system and cow worship/reverence.

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life. e.g. Buddha by one legend was supposedly talking when he came out of his mother's womb.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations, embellishments, lies, and myths surrounding the founders and foundations of said rules of life.

Then, apply the Five F rule: "First Find the Flaws, then Fix the Foundations". And finally there will be religious peace in the world!!!!!

It isn't Obama's job to promote religious liberty outside the USA. Totalitarian regimes such as found in China are guilty of any number of human rights offences among their own people - there's no reason to focus on religious restrictions in particular.

China's offenses against Tibet are well known - and this goes far beyond interference with cultural religous practices (although that has been both a symbolic and actual focal point of Tibetan persecution by their Chinese occupiers).

Until China allows for the return of freedom of political self-determination and independence in Tibet, religious restrictions are in a very real sense a red herring for much larger problems involving political suppression and dominance.

And then, many Muslim cultures have the opposite problem - freedom FROM religious expression. We don't need to look further than Saudi Arabia for this phenomenon.

Totalitarian autocracies/theocracies are every bit as bad as 'religion free' communist nations that suppress freedom of religious expression.

The USA is only one nation in the global alliance of Western democratic nations.....but the fact is, religion plays a much smaller part in other Western societies. Since religion is still a big deal in America, the USA by default must advocate for global religious freedom!

As far as religion goes, we're currently a nation that is still confused by the constitutional need for the separation of church and state.

What we don't need are more 'values' wars that are somehow inspired by our political/religious differences with other cultures/nations. We've been there and done that.......