tezsnrfux vfjuygzme xmeod ouij aydt jshcu cdzvloxt

tezsnrfux vfjuygzme xmeod ouij aydt jshcu cdzvloxt

tezsnrfux vfjuygzme xmeod ouij aydt jshcu cdzvloxt

m494k

Liberated,
I told you I won't condemn anything because you insist.

But for God's sake, don't condemn OT, NT or anything else. Condemn the governments, politicians, groups that kill innocent people. Not just Binladen, or Saddam. Not just Hitler and Mussolini. EVERYONE of them from Kings/mullahs of Christendom of the past to perpetrators of all modern day wars.

That's the issue here. And that issue, you keep side-stepping. And that makes you and people like you EXTREMELY dangerous.

see- you never answered my question- whos the enemy this week? and you never will because like me- you wont know til tv tells you who to hate this week-
now for your edification-

Thursday, July 28, 2005

CAIR backs Fatwa against Terror
English, Arabic, Urdu radio anti-terror PSAs released

(Washington, D.C., 7/28/05) - The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today offered its support for a fatwa, or Islamic religious ruling, against terrorism and extremism issued by the Fiqh Council of North America (FCNA) and endorsed by more than 120 U.S. Muslim groups, leaders and institutions. (The term "fiqh" refers to Islamic jurisprudence.) The fatwa, released during a news conference this morning at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., states in part:

"Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence against innocent lives. There is no justification in Islam for extremism or terrorism. Targeting civilians' life and property through suicide bombings or any other method of attack is haram – or forbidden - and those who commit these barbaric acts are criminals, not martyrs ... In the light of the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah we clearly and strongly state: 1. All acts of terrorism targeting civilians are haram (forbidden) in Islam. 2. It is haram for a Muslim to cooperate with any individual or group that is involved in any act of terrorism or violence. 3. It is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians. We issue this fatwa following the guidance of our scripture, the Qur’an, and the teachings of our Prophet Muhammad – peace be upon him."

SEE: http://www.cair-net.org/downloads/fatwa-english.txt

SEE: "U.S. Muslim Scholars to Forbid Terrorism", "From Muslims in America, a New Fatwa on Terrorism"

In a statement read at the news conference, CAIR Executive Director Nihad Awad said: "United, we can confront the terrorists and frustrate their goal of sparking an apocalyptic war between faiths and civilizations ... The presence here today of American Muslim leaders indicates the willingness of our community to strengthen national security and to work with policy-makers to gain victory over this international menace to humanity." CAIR urged that the fatwa be read by Imams, or Islamic prayer leaders, at Friday prayers across the United States.

Awad also announced the release of radio versions of CAIR’s 30-second “Not in the Name of Islam” television public service announcement (PSA) in English, Arabic and Urdu. The PSA campaign ties into CAIR’s “Not in the Name of Islam” online petition drive designed to disassociate the faith of Islam from the violent acts of a few Muslims. To listen to the PSAs, go to: English | Arabic | Urdu | TV Video

CAIR, America's largest Muslim civil liberties group, has 31 offices and chapters nationwide and in Canada. Its mission is to enhance the understanding of Islam, encourage dialogue, protect civil liberties, empower American Muslims, and build coalitions that promote justice and mutual understanding. To read CAIR's Mission, Vision Statement and Core Principles, go to: http://www.cair-net.or

ps the quran already condemsn and renounces militancy-
BUT YOU HAVE TO READ IT TO FIND OUT

do your own homework lib you take up enough of my energy

lib- it was a sarcastic remark intended to point out that some accusatory and implicitly condemnatory questions, by their very nature , can have no good or satisfactory answer-

you know i posted at long length and in detail on the women in religion muslim panelists that

there is no beating of wives in islam-

dont be sneaky- you read those posts and already know that

In case you need additions to your "wishy-wash" version of the Koran, see:
http://womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2482
and
http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html
and
stay out of my neighborhood and off planes until the Koran renounces and condemns militancy, slavery and mistreatment of women.

Your commentary about beating wives shows you are well trained in Islam.

I rest my case and proceed to reading some new books by Professor Crossan. Here's hoping he will soon "crossanize" the Koran as well as he has "crossanized" the NT

im watching Religious and Ethics Newsweekly right now and theres the sweetest story about Zanzibar and a program called Heifer International and its about muslims and christians sharing their livestock and helping each other and the major effect its had on their society-

see liberated- this is the kind of thing that is positive and working toars solutions-

even if someone deconstructs the Qur'an to your specific liking- will it make any difference in the world?

use your prolific energies to thing of creative solutions to the problems you love to dwell on-

it will change your perspective-
now peace lib and dont worry- i dont know where you live and dont really care what plane youre on-

i deal with fearful people every day- and a little bit at a time i use good manners and an honest smile and happy heart to counter unfounded and irrational fears-

peace

so youve changed your question finally-
does that mean youve given upon the shia sunni condemnation youve been demanding this long time?

so i guess you were stumped as i am by my question-
whos the enemy this week?

yes lib- i ahve power over time and space to know where your neighborhood is and what planes youll take so i can avoid them-

well i guess this means youve inally realized the silliness of your former qustion and have moved onto anew vague and silly accusation-

liberated- do you not realize these arent even usually religious issues you have problems with but political ones?

can you make a distinction?

it is not your religin (or lack) or mine that is any problem-

it is small groups of biased and prejudiced people who have no desire for peace in any form-

i just got here lib- what could the 'real issue' that im avoiding be?

that i refuse to foster paranoia and fear?
that i have a real desire for dialogue and open communications?
that i have no prejudice good or bad for any group of humans- each individual is recognized for their own mentality and action-

i cant condemn or endorse any grouping of people you can come up with-

all christians are kind?
all muslims terrorists?
what next- african americans cant swim?
white people cant dance?

liberated you are never going to drag me down to any negativity-
i have boatloads of energy and tenacity-

right is right - and it is wrong to spread fear

so who is the enemy this week?

there arent slave passages in the quran - or militant passages to renounce lib-

i cant renounce what isnt there

by the way are you still beating your wife?

Victoria,

That I am. In the meantime, stay out of my neighborhood and off any plane I might be on.

LIBERATED - you are so predictable

Victoria,

And your avoidance of the real issue continues.

The issue:

Do you or do you not condemn and renounce the militant and slavery passages of the Koran??? Yes or No!!!!

LIBERATED HAVE YOU GOE OFF YOUR ROCKER??

ALRIGHT- Here are the "statistics" for the OPINION i posted-

Posted February 17, 2007 4:01 AM ok?

there you go- the statistics for the subjective opinion i posted- are you pleased with how i substantiated the fact that i had an opinion?

one thing i cant figure though-

WHO EXACTLY ARE THE "ENEMIES " OF AMERICA NOW?

SHIA OR SUNNI?

did you ever read 1984?
remeber when george winston was watching the captured enemies being driven through the jeering crowds? and he asked- werent they our allies last week?

so who is it liberated? the shia are our friends now?
why didnt we help the lebanese then? last year in july?
theres lots of shia there- and not all shia are hezbollah- are iraqi shia more special?
but especially-

WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE GO INTO IRAN?
theyre not arabs-theyre persians-
theyre not sunni- theyre shia-

do we kill the persian shia then?
do we start hating the iraqi shia too? or just the persian ones?

and what about the kurds?
are all kurds good and under our protection?

what about the ones blowing up sunnis and secularists in turkey?
should we send them arms?
or are they terrorists because theyre killing innocents?

friend or foe?
blow em all up and let god sort em out?

whaddaya say liberated?

i get too confused about who im supposed to hate this week-
perhaps you could draw me up a diagram so i can direct my personally unaffected and disinterested but politicaly correct hatred at the right group-

id hate to expend all that venom and then discover id facilitated the deaths of 'friends"

maybe the tv will tell me---

BUT ILL TELL YOU ONE THING LIB-

I AM NOT BUYING THAT BOOK BY CROSSAN SO PLEASE STOP PUSHING IT!

and by the way- crossan is defintitely and by far not even close to the first person to surmise the writings of timothy were by a later sympathizer-

i was never a pauline apologist liberated-
and so youve switched authorship from paul to timothy to ?

it still doesnt negate the statement- and it doesnt say anything about the 14 other examples and historically valid figures cited-

and by the way- if you start flooding the posts with some islamaphobic bashing-

i will drown these pages with my own voluminous posts i can just copy and paste from the on faith here and ive some time off and nothing much to do right now-

mercy lib- maybe you got bored not having me to yell at-

okay= peace as always

(you know lib this is as aggressive as ive ever gotten to you so its nothing personal you know)
but really- who is our enemy?

Fulan,

So finally you found some scripture and references. I recommend posting the slavery, anti-female and militant passages of the Koran for comparison. I condemn and renounce them all. Apparently you cannot which makes you very, very dangerous.

By the way, Professor Crossan has concluded that many of your cited references are not from Paul. See his books, The Historical Jesus and In Search of Paul for added details.

Some details:

A specific analysis of 1 Timothy by Crossan:
"First Letter to Timothy [1 Tim]. The three Pastoral Epistles of 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, and Titus were composed by the same author in the general Aegean area during the peaceful years after 120 CE and were pseudepigraphi­cally attributed to Paul. "

Here is what Father Ray Brown, noted NT exegete and author of An Introduction to the New Testament had to say about the Timothy epistles.

p. 654,

"Authenticity: Probably written by a disciple of Paul or a sympathetic commentator on the Pauline heritage several decades after the apostle's death."

Liberated,

You said, "You cite years but no references and you use the significantly stupid comments by so-called Christians (if they made them) to sanctify the significant stupid passages in the Koran."

These are the most important figures in your history. But if you insist they stupid (Aquinas was stupid???), the how about something from the very "word" of God? Read and condemn, which of course would mean you are a Christian who doesn't believe in his God's words!!

Corinthians 11:3: "...Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and the head of Christ is God. (NIV)".

Corinthians 11:7-9:"For a man...is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman but woman for man. For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head."

Corinthians 14:34-35: "...women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says, If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

Ephesians 5:22-24: "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife...wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

1 Timothy 2:11-15:"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent..."

Now, what moral high ground do you have to criticize the Koran, tell me!!!!! Go fix your Bible first.

As for as the verse you keep referring to, here is what it means and how we understand it. What you translate as "beat them up" is actually means a "tap on the hand" to awaken/remind an over-reacting woman who is consumed by rage. Beating up any human being, man or woman, is EXPLICITLY forbidden in Islam, period. Our Prophet never in his entire life hit anyone, except once defending himself on the battlefield.

As for saying "man and woman are equal", I think that is a bizarre statement and should therefore be qualified. What do you mean they are equal? In what respect? Do you mean equal rights? Islam grants them equal rights. Do you mean equal in terms of how close you can get to God? Islam puts no restrictions on women in that regard. Do you mean they are biologically the same? That's preposterous. Do you mean they have the same roles in family and society? If that were naturally possible, your Christian couples who vow to stay together "till death does them apart" wouldn't be suffering from the staggering divorce rate, the domestic violence, the single motherhood, the prostitution.....

Men and women are different. Women are more emotional, physically weaker obviously but on the other hand women are more affectionate, more organized, more merciful.Islam takes into consideration theses differences. How many women cab drivers or construction workers have you seen? Why don't men and women participate in sports together? Why should we have separate bathrooms for men and women?

It's not who is inferior and who is superior. It's simply who can mentally and physically do what best. If raising children and taking care of the household is an inferior job and not a sacred trust, then God help us... and no wonder we have teen pregnancies, drugs, std's, crime etc. Precisely because woman has become the slave of the corporate world. She is forced to compete with men and that destroys her and her family. America is the best example of that. Anna Nicole Smith is another :)

For your further info, in Islam a woman DOESN'T have to work outside her home, but if she chooses to do so, she is free to do so. Not a revision this: but the Prophet's wife was a business woman. And when she earns money, it's entirely hers, she doesn't split it with husband or children. It's the husband's responsibility to provide for her and her children. If you say Islam is anti-masculine religion, you will have a better shot at convicing someone!!!!

So I don't need to renounce anything. I know what it means and I know how my Prophet understood and practiced it.

As for your comments about Saddam, you know you are fooling yourself. Saddam was a Baathist = non-believer with concensus of all Islamic schools of thought. Saying he had anything to do with Islam is a rediculous as saying he possessed WMD's... hahaha. More importantly, he was an ally, YES AN ALLY Of AMERICA and AMERICA supported him against Iran, Kurds, Shi'ites and even indirectly encouraged him to attack Kuwait, with the obvious result that the US is now permanently stationed in the Gulf. What business does America have in the Middle East? Protecting the internationally recognized butchers of Israel or the "bastard", occupying, oppressive Zionist entity, (whoich was by the way created in 1949, to punish Palestinians for the crimes of Christian Germany)?

Like Victoria said, sing a new song, man.

Fulan,

You cite years but no references and you use the significantly stupid comments by so-called Christians (if they made them) to sanctify the significant stupid passages in the Koran.

As I noted previously, I renounce and condemn any militant or anti-feminine passage in any text or commentary to include Christian, Judaic or Koranic books. Please do the same.

Hmmm, Saddam Hussein, now there was an example of Muslim who followed the militant passages of the Sunni Iraqi Koran. Iraqi Shiites and Islamic Kuwait and Iran apparently were considered non-believers. Just how many versions of the Koran are there??

.... and don't even get me started with the place of women in Christianity or the West. In the latter, they are nice tools to sell your products and raped and killed by the hundreds.

And here is what Christendom has to say about women. Enjoy.

Clement of Alexandria (150?-215?): "Every woman should be filled with shame by the thought that she is a woman."

Tertullian (160?-220?): "Woman is a temple built over a sewer, the gateway to the devil. Woman, you are the devil's doorway. You led astray one whom the devil would not dare attack directly. It was your fault that the Son of God had to die; you should always go in mourning and rags."

Ambrose (339-97): "Adam was deceived by Eve, not Eve by Adam... it is right that he whom that woman induced to sin should assume the role of guide lest he fall again through feminine instability."

Augustine (354-430): "Woman was merely man's helpmate, a function which pertains to her alone. She is not the image of God but as far as man is concerned, he is by himself the image of God."

Pope Gregory I (540-604): "Woman is slow in understanding and her unstable and naive mind renders her by way of natural weakness to the necessity of a strong hand in her husband. Her 'use' is two fold; [carnal] sex and motherhood."

Thomas Aquinas (1225-74): "[Woman] was made only to assist with procreation."

John Knox (1513-72): "Woman was made for only one reason, to serve and obey man."

John Wesley (1703-91): "Wife: Be content to be insignificant. What loss would it be to God or man had you never been born."

Southern Baptist Convention (2000): "A wife should submit herself to the leadership of her husband. Leadership in the church should always be male."

Local church in Holland (2004): "More and more we see women being placed in the position of Elder or Pastor in churches. Is this a good thing? Well, if your goal is to undermine the authority of the Word of God, it's a good thing."

Liberated, don't forge what I told you a few posts ago: any cricism of Islam and Muslims should come from someone who has higher moral ground. Otherwise, it's a bunch of ballony.

Liberated, In response to this:
"And for the millionth time, the atomic bombs dropped on Japan saved the lives of 100,000 GI's and the lives of even more Japanese citizens who would have perished in the invasion of Japan and the subsequent battles."

How very nice of you!! Somehow alwayas concerened about saving innocent lives!!! Iraqis, thank the Americans for saving you from Saddam, it's ok if you lost a million lives, since dying under US occupation is better than living under Saddam, won't you agree?

The detterrent effect of a nuclear weapon could have been achieved without a single human being dying if it was dropped on places uninhabited; the Japs would have surrendered. If they didn't, you could always drop another one. But it was the same logic as bin Laden's at work: there is no innocent/civilian Japanese, they are all to be slaughtered. Don't even try to tell me the nuclear bmobs dropped on Japan were weapons of mercy. It sounds too pathetic and it's an insult to those thousands incinerated by those blind nukes!!!

Consider this hypthetical scenario: Bin Laden did 9/11 because somehow, he knew US will attack the Middle East again (reasonalbe since Iraq was planned prior to 9/11). So he's saying I am doing this 9/11, even though it will kill innocent people in America, it will save a million innocent lives in Iraq (reasonable estimate of Iraqis dead when the war would be over). Would you accept that excuse?? Why not? It sounds more credible than your pathetic attempt at justifying the annihilation of Heroshima and Nagasaki!!! And which ones would you keep justifying: there is simply too much brutality by the Christendom committed throughout history. There is something inherently evil about this pattern that starts with forcible conversions (Inquisition) and continues through Colonialism, WWI, WWII and the current hegemony of the world. Chrsitendom's history is an INSULT to the pure and blessed name of Jesus and I am sure he is the first one to denounce and curse everything Christianity has done to humanity, from enslavement of Blacks to wiping out of Indians, to the Japanese, the Colonial victims of occupation and the current occupatoins around the world.

Call it power and arrogance and say "I will do as I please because I CAN do as I please", but don't, for God's sake, name it mercy!! Don't tell me you saved the Japanese. Two more of those monsters and the Japanese race would have ceased to exist!!

You are so funny, I can not even get you to denounce the horrific things even most Christians would not hesitate to condemn, and yet you insist that I denounce my holy book?? Are you out of your mind?

Count: Inquisition, Crusades, Colonialism, Indians wiped out, blacks enslaved, WWI, WWII, and almost ALL wars of the 20th and 21st century.... All are perpetrated by Christian/white killers.

Yet, Mr Liberated, Mr I-Am-The-Follower-of-the-Prince-of-Peace would not even distance himself from these, because in his distorted world-view, call yourself Christian and you are saved, no matter what you do. You call that a religion?? I call it a bunch of fables with enigmatic characteres making web after web of lies and tying them to Jesus, and then assuming that gives them the right to enslave the entire human race. Keep on dreaming: the world will not take crap from anyone anymore. Long live Peace and Justice. Down with Injustice and War.

Fulan and Victoria,

Please verify your statistics. Without doing so, you continue with your Islamic "wishy-wash".

I am not condemning the Koran just those militant parts and the parts that enslave women.

To repeat: Your "context" might be different from other Muslims, but the Koran is used by your mullahs to persuade Muslims to kill and maim fellow Muslims and also to kill and maim innocent non-believers of all ages plus themselves as witnessed by the almost daily suicide bombings done in the name of allah.

Simply answer the question, " Do you renounce and condemn the passages in the Koran that these mullahs use to kill fellow Muslims and innocents? Yes or No?

If you want another way of life to follow, I recommend the Koran without the militant passages, without the passages that make women inferior, and without the passages that allows slavery to include harems and polygamy. Doing this would also make you a follower also of the NT without its many embellishments (See Professor Crossan's books- Professor Crossan is a member of the On Faith panel and has listed the embellishments of the NT in great detail on the websites and in the books previously noted).A hate-free Koran and an embellishment-free NT would be the first step in the great and needed convergence of religions.

And for the millionth time, the atomic bombs dropped on Japan saved the lives of 100,000 GI's and the lives of even more Japanese citizens who would have perished in the invasion of Japan and the subsequent battles.

Victoria, well said. No matter how much I condemn Al-Qaida and the like, "Liberated" won't be pleased until I condemn my very own holy book, which of course I won't.

So the Shias and Sunnis just started killing each other in Iraq and the born-again went in to bring peace? Or did he actually open the flood-gates of hatred that had been formenting under Saddam's rule quarter of a century. Saddam who? Saddam the ally of Uncle Sam against Iran. Saddam whose infamous handshake with Rummy is a "known known", as much as you'd like for it to be "unknown". Saddam whose brutality against Shias and Kurds and using of Chemeical and Biological weapons against them was carried out under the tutelage and sponsorship of conservatives in America. It is rediculous, rather preposterous to suggest that somehow Dumb Dubya has nothing to do with the carnage in Iraq. So crzay that even he himself will disagree with you!!

Also, not all the casualties are sectarian. Abu-Ghraib wasn't Shia-Sunni. It was born-again's folks who authorized it and did it.

And oh, the sanctions after Gulf I. Remember, when Albright said half a million infants, 500,000+ LITTLE BABIES, that died as a result was worth the price!! Those babies weren't Shias or Sunnis, they were little, cute innocent babies. This was done by people who would rather let people like Michael J. Fox die rather than allow stem-cell research. Hypocracy at its very worst.

Shias and Sunnis elsewhere, by and large are co-exisitng peacefully together. But you are right, Nagasaki was actually the Shia city and Hiroshima the Sunni city and they just swallowed each other alive. The anti-American Japanese would just place the blame for their own inter-sectarian killing on the angelic Americans!!!

fulan- dontworry about it- concerned has been chasing me around petulantly stamping his feet and DEMANDING that i condemn people he doesnt know or care about- obviously there is some preconceived triumphant repsonse that hes been waiting to trumpet for awhile-

at least liberated is learning that people rarely respond to confrontational demands just because they are spokenloudly and repeatedly-

he also demands that muslims rewrite the qur'an- presumably to please his tastes-

just ask him any question in the world and watch how it turns into islamophobic paranoia-

liberated you need to sing a new song!

Fulan,

What are you talking about? The butchering of over 100,000 Iraqi civilians is due to the Sunni and Shiites killing and maiming each other. The idiocy of their belief in some descendent of your "prophet" is responsible for the situation and makes a sham out of Islam until it is resolved.

Once again the embellishments to the NT are specifically noted by Professor Crossan in his book, The Historical Jesus. Please spend $15 to educate yourself. A synopsis of the embellishments can also be found at http://www.faithfutures.org/Jesus/Crossan2.rtf. Use your Edit/Find menu to quickly access the NT passages of interest. As clearly noted in the book and on the net site, embellishments are noted with a minus or minus/plus sign.

Some of the embellishments as per the Jesus Seminar can also be found at http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html. This site is directly related to the Crossan site.

And the Koran, OT and NT are not the words of any god.

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated,

Like I said, I am NOT going to condemn anything just because you ask me to do so. Do you want me to condemn self-defense?

Out of context use by whatever mullahs you are referring to is absolutely horrendous and I do condemn it and condemn any violence against civilians or forcing people to convert, not despite of, but BECAUSE of Islam's teachings.

However, do YOU condemn the Holy Inquisition, the Crusades, Heroshima and Nagasaki and the butchery in Iraq going on now? No? I knew you wouldn't! By all accounts, these Christian/Western brutalities directly resulted in the death and maiming of millions upon millions of innocent human-beings.

And for God's sake, how on earth can you equate hundreds of thousands killed by the orders of our beloved born-again Christian Commander-in-Chief and only a few hundred killed by crzay terrorists who are only reacting to the atrocities of the "born-again" anyway.

Where is the parallel here? It's so rediculous that, statistically, the terrorists can calim higher moral ground, even though, ideologically I see no difference between the terrorists and those war-mongers, born-agains of the Christian world.

As for your Bible, which parts are embelishments and which ones are not, I will never know. And anyway, the questions is not even whether it's a nice book or whether its words are nice and soothing and its stories interesting. The question is, is it the word of the real, true God? All evidence shows the contrary, and you know it.

I think these words are appropriate to Mr. Khatami's remarks on anxiety--

HERE ARE SOME WORDS OF IBN HAZM

. In all the actions listed here, anyone who pauses to reflect will see that anxieties inevitably occur, such as problems which arise in the course of the action, the impossibility of performing the impossible, the fleeting nature of any achievements, and the inability to enjoy something because of some difficulty. There are also bad consequences which arise from every success: fear of one’s rival, attacks by the jealous, theft by covetous, loss to an enemy, not to mention criticism, sin and such things. On the other hand, I have found that actions performed with an eye on eternity are free from * every kind of * fault, free from every stain, and a true means of dispelling anxiety. I have found that the man who is striving for eternity may be sorely tested by bad fortune on his way but does not worry; on the contrary, he is glad, because the trial to which he is subjected gives rise to hope, which aids him in his endeavour and sets him the more firmly on the path towards his true desire. I have found that, when he finds his way blocked by an obstacle, he does not worry, because it is not his fault, and he did not choose the actions that he will have to answer for. I have seen such a man be glad, when others have wished evil upon him, and be glad when has undergone some trial, and be glad, always [living] in a permanent state of joy while others are permanently the opposite. You should therefore understand that there is only one objective to strive for, it is to dispel anxiety; and only one path leads to this, and that is the service of the Most High God. Everything else is misguided and absurd.

9. Do not use your energy except for a cause more noble than yourself. Such a cause cannot be found except in * Almighty * God Himself: to preach the truth, to defend womanhood, to repel humiliation which your Creator has not imposed upon you, to help the oppressed. Anyone who uses his energy for the sake of the vanities of the world is like someone who exchanges gemstones for gravel.

10. There is no nobility in anyone who lacks faith.

11. The wise man knows that the only fitting price for his soul is a place in Paradise.

SORRY I POSTED THE ABOVE POST ANONYMOUSLY BY MISTAKE-

CTORIA :

HEALTH BENEFITS OF PRAYER

Preliminary findings of a research project carried out by Universiti Malaya's biomedical engineering departmenU show that the positions Muslims take during their prayers benefit the heart and spine.

The study also showed that the postures boost the capacity for memory and increase attention.

Malaysian Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi said the research reaffirmed the power of prayer in every Muslimأ¢â‚¬â„¢s life.

"The study investigates the physiological interactions and effects of the salat postures on the human body," said Abdullah, who likened salat postures to those practiced now in yoga.

"Since the majority of our population are Muslims, it is both of interest and importance that we not only understand the spiritual benefits of salat, but also ... its biological and medical effects," he added.

Muslims are obliged to pray five times a day; at dawn, midday, afternoon, sunset and evening. Each prayer consists of several simple positions during which Muslims recite verses from the Holy Qurأ¢â‚¬â„¢an.

Worshippers usually begin their prayers with a standing posture, followed by a deep bow and then a sitting position on the knees. The praying person then touches his/hers forehead to the ground, stands up and repeats the whole process until he/she finishes the prayer.

Previous studies found that Muslim prayers, often directed in the direction (qibla) of the Ka'ba shrine in Mecca, can be therapeutic for the mind and the body.

According to an article on ww.islamicvoice.com, the postures of the prayers stretch various muscles and nerves, giving a constant physical therapy to all the joints of our bodies. This protects arthritis, and reduces back pains and disc problems.

Since praying provides Muslims with mental satisfaction, it can also reduce anxiety, depression, stress and tension which are also considered to be contributing factors to various diseases.

Moreover, performing ablution, which involves washing the face, mouth, nostrils, ears, and arms before praying, has great health advantages, like preventing tooth decay, and reducing bacterial infections.

-- AJP and Agencies

I am really happy to see someone talk about prayer in this forum- as a muslim- prayer is a most ever constant force in my life- my husband and i rise before sunrise every day and join in prayer- and during the day wherever he is- i know that were both praying around the same time-

one of the most beautiful things ive contemplatd is the fact that when i think of the entire world as a whole- (muslims pray at strictly proscribed times)
i know that like a great flower unfolding moving across the face of the earth in a rhythm and like a great unseen dance (well seen by ALLAH) there is the pattern of the rising and prostrating of believers in some beautiful unison- like the greatest most sublime clock of adoration- and that any given second in the day or night- constantly as the sun moves in its orbit- there is someone saying the words we all say- in the same language-in a perfect harmony, with the exact same intent-worship and a giving of the heart to our god- just giving-(we do the petition part after prayer if we choose)

thanks for giving me the chance to express this.

peace and salaams

it is in this we all share a certain cohesiveness isnt it?

Fulan,

Your "context" might be different from other Muslims, but the Koran is used by your mullahs to persuade Muslims to kill and maim fellow Muslims and also to kill and maim innocent non-believers of all ages plus themselves as witnessed by the almost daily suicide bombings done in the name of allah.

Simply answer the question, " Do you renounce and condemn the passages in the Koran that these mullahs use to kill fellow Muslims and innocents? Yes or No?

If you want another way of life to follow, I recommend the Koran without the militant passages, without the passages that make women inferior, and without the passages that allows slavery to include harems and polygamy. Doing this would also make you a follower also of the NT without its many embellishments (See Professor Crossan's books- Professor Crossan is a member of the On Faith panel and has listed the embellishments of the NT in great detail on the websites and in the books previously noted). A hate-free Koran and an embellished free NT would be the first step in the great and needed convergence of religions.

Mr. Concerned The Christian Now Liberated,

I told you about the "militant" passages. They have their context and their place. We do fight the enemy who attacks us. We don't turn the other cheek.

And yes, I do condemn any misuse of the Koran by any extremists. (I don't think you will ever condemn the thousands dead in Iraq so far or those who did it or the nuking of the Japanese for that matter).

Try as I might, I was not able to find a more direct answer to your question.

I expect the same kind of direct response from you. Don't hide behind "embelishments", and "blind faith" and your useless website links.

Religion and Hereafter can not be based on guess work or what your parents were following. Tell, me just tell me, which Bible should I follow if I wanted to convert? Which should I beleive when I find the "embelished" contradctions? I am still waiting, YES, I swear I am, for a better, more logicla religion than Islam. If you have it and don't want to share it with me, you are indeed a miser. But if you don't have it, then, I don't see the difference between you and those you call atheists!! They are misguided and so are you.

Fulan,

And the Islamic "wishy-wash" continues. Simply answer "Do you condemn and renounce the militant passages of the Koran". Yes or No?

And you have not understood any of the previous discussions on this blog. Please review all the commentary for the last three months.

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:

There is nothing new in what you say nor in your references. I am sick and tired of your rhetoric. You keep referring me to your dubious sources!!

Just tell me, how and under what circumstances and logic 1 = 3 ?????

Did Jesus ever say he's the son of God, begotten not created?

I told you Koran tells me to fight my enemy when I am under attack and that's how I and the billion+ Muslims worldwide have been taught to udnerstand and practice it since childhood. I don't care how much you rant about militant passages. I have never harmed anyone in my life precisely BECAUSE I am a Muslim. Just to re-assure you, I hereby do denounce and condemn in the most severe terms all acts of unjustified violence and ANY violence against innocent civilians, no matter who the perpetrator.

BTW, on evidence of a bloody past, if I am to be feared because of 9/11 and similar acts of violence by nut-cases hijacking just causes, you, White Christian (I am only assuming here) should be feared 10,000 times more! The mere thought of nuking of the Japanese civilians by the followers of the peaceful religion of Christ alone should send chills down everyone's spine!!! Not to speak of the horrendous annihilation of American Indians, Inquisition brutalities, and yes the more recent hundreds of thousands killed in Iraq alone. And, cutting you a slack, I am not going to count the dead in Afghanistan, Somalia or else where. I am not even counting those killed indirectly through the puppets of Uncle Sam from Egypt to Saudi Arabia to Pakistan. So my friend, if there is anyone to be feared, it is YOU and those like you!!! No wonder then that the whole world abhors America and Americans. Little do they know, there are millions of peace-loving people in America, as gullible as they are to believe the myth that Christianity is!!

Fulan,

I don't think you understand what I have written. Read it again and also the cited references and books.

With respect to Islam, it is a sham as long as the militant passages in the Koran remain. If you do not renounce these passages please stay out of my neighborhood and off any plane I might be flying on. You are not to be trusted.

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:

There is no point arguing with you. You didn't show me Jesus saying he is the son of God in any special way (ie, begotten not created), and that he is one manifestation of the concept of Trinity! (ie, 1=3 !!!!)

Consider this: a witness comes to court and gives the judge descriptions that are as inconsistent and contradictory as the NT. Do you think any judge will accept his testimony? Won't he soon be in trouble for perjury or held in contempt? A book that has so many "embelishments" may be a nice story book or history book, but it being the word of God meant to show humanity the right path??? Give me a break!!!!

I feel your problem. You just don't want to face the truth, do you? You think something bad will happen to you if you question your religion. For once, do go to this link: http://www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm

Be fair and consider the arguments of those who criticize your religion and maybe God will show you the right path. Or at least you will have done your best to be objective. As for me, I commit myself, right now, and you be my witness as well as anyone else reading this, that if you prove to me that there is another religion (be it Christianity or any other religion) that is better than Islam or makes more sense than Islam, then I will convert to it right away.....

Fulan,

All of your answers are in the references I recommended. See also the list of NT exegetes at
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

For added references to the Father and Son see http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb045.html

See also the On Faith panel discussion about Jesus being the son of God: December, 2006 Question,

An excerpt from Professor Crossan's commentary:

"But among those three metaphors, Jesus as Son of God is very special because that was the title of Caesar on coins and inscriptions, statues and structures all over the Mediterranean world at the time of Jesus’ birth. To confess that title of Jesus was to de-confess it of Caesar, that is, to commit your life to peace through justice rather than peace through victory. It still is."

i.e. The title of Son of God was copied from the description/title of Caesar.

and how do i know in the process of embelishments, they didn't add new things. and how about major incosistencies like Jesus being the son of God and then him telling people to only worship God? and that God is one??? And when did Jesus EVER say he is God?? Where? Show me!! Not somethig that can be interpreted in a million ways, but a stright forward "I am the son of God, and we are three: Father, Son, Holy Ghost". This being the foudation of your faith, is not even there in the corropted, thousand-and-one versions of your Bible. How pathetic!!!

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:

Well, instead of referring me to some apologetic professors, answer the inconsistencies. My point is not even the inconsistencies. My point is God can not make mistakes. His words also do not need to embellished/enhanced. Why, God's words were not good enough?

More importantly though, nothing in Christian dogma makes sense. Go tell a 2 year old 1 = 3 and he will laugh at you, and that my friend is your problem!! You religion dosen't make sense. Try telling bright human beings "Just plunge in, don't question anything, have blind "faith", and you will be saved!!" How rediculous!! There can no be no such thing as blind faith; faith should make sense, as it concerns the life hereafter. That sense I find in the logic of Islam. And that sense is something thousands of Americans from all races and all walks of life find each year, despite all the negative propoganda by almost everyone, who keep trying to defame Islam. What you can't take away from Islam though is: it makes perfect sense. It's not just "believe in in someone as your savior and you will be saved, no action required". If only some people could see. For verily it's not the outer eyes that are blind, but the eyes of the heart. May God show you the right path. Amen.

Ben,

See http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb016.html.

As per Crossan and also the Jesus "Seminarians" and others the Last Supper was a later addition to the NT.

An excerpt from the reference noted above:

"At the same time, Luedemann concludes that the portrayal of Jesus celebrating such a ritual on the night before his death is not historical. He is clear that there is "no generic relationship" between any actual final meal and the Lord's Supper understood in cultic terms. He also denies the Passover character of the supper as a Markan creation. Like Meier (below), Luedemann does accept the saying (Mark 14:25) about drinking wine in the kingdom of God as authentic. He concludes: (this saying) "hardly came into being in the early community, for in it Jesus does not exercise any special function for believers at the festal meal in heaven which is imminent. Only Jesus' expectation of a the future kingdom of God stands at the centre, not Jesus as saviour, judge or intercessor."

Fulan,

You are a bit late with the NT comparisons. The Jesus "Seminarians" to include the On Faith panelists Professor Crossan and Borg and NT exegetes for the last 200 years have been pointing out the discrepancies between/among the various NT gospels/epistles.

e.g. http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb122.html
122- not of/from the historical Jesus. Request for Sign: (1a ) 2Q: Luke 11:29-30 = Matt 12:38-40; (1b) Matt 16:4a; (1c) Gos. Naz. 11; (2a) Mark 8:11-13 = Matt 16:1,4b = Luke 11:16.

http://www.faithfutures.org/Jesus/Crossan2.rtf
362. not of/from the historical Jesus, Prophecies of Disbelief: (1) John 12:37-43;

See the referenced sites and also Professor Crossan's book, The Historical Jesus for an analyses of all your citations. Professor Crossan's analyses by the way shows that over 50% of the NT passages are embellishments added by later scribes to enhance the Good Word.

Veritas vos Liberabit, Anonymous and others who believe OT is no good and abrogated and NT is the source of guidance, keep reading for the contradictions in your "Holy Book". I know you have spent so much time trying to find fault with Islam and Quran. It will be a good investment to read the following, it's long, but hey, it's about NT and Jesus :)

(1) According to Mark, chapter 8, verse 12, Jesus says: "In truth, no sign shall be given (by me) to this generation (which refers to the generation of Jews who rejected his claims)." John chapter 12 verse 37 (cf. Acts chapter 2 verse 22) says, in evident contradiction, that Jesus gave "many signs" to this same disbelieving generation of Jews.

(2) Mark, chapter 6, verse 5 says that Jesus "could do no miracle" on at least one occasion. The word is could (not would) which means it was not possible for Jesus to perform a miracle at that time. But Mark, chapter 10, verse 27 says just the opposite, that "with God all things are possible." Hence, Jesus is eliminated as a god.

(3) In John, chapter 5, verse 31, Jesus supposedly says: "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true." But a little later he reportedly exclaims: "Even if I bear witness of myself, yet my witness is true (John 8:14)." Furthermore, to make matters even more confused and conflicted, this passage was added to the Christian Bible in the sixth century. It is first found in a paper called "Liber Appologeticus" in the fourth century. It is noted that the words are sixth century additions to the original text. The footnote in the Jerusalem Bible, a Catholic translation, says these words are "not in any of the early Greek manuscripts or in the earliest manuscripts of the Vulgate itself." It is interesting that the Catholic church, who originally added this verse would admit now that it a spurious addition to the Greek Testament!

(4) It is supposedly the Last Supper. John, chapter 13, verse 36 has Peter ask Jesus: "Where are you going?" Then John, chapter 14, verse 5 has Thomas say to him: "We know not where you are going." But John, chapter 16, verse 5, has Jesus reply: "None of you are asking me where I'm going!" Because Peter asked Jesus where he was going, it is very clear that Jesus has deliberately lied.

(5) In John, chapter 7, verse 38, Jesus reportedly says: "Scripture said: 'From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water'." There is no such passage in the Hebrew Tanach or anything resembling it.

(6) Matthew 2:23 says that: "He came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, he shall be called a Nazarene." There is no mention of this in the Ketuvim (the prophets). This narrated prophecy does not even exist! In the Old Testament (King James Version), the words "Nazareth" and "Nazarene" do not ever appear!

(7) John 17:12 mentions a "son of perdition" and says the "scriptures are being fulfilled." There is no reference, however, to a "son of perdition" in the Tanach.

(8) Jesus says that it was Zechariah, son of Berechiah, who was killed in the Temple courtyard (Matthew 23:35). Apparently Jesus didn't read the Bible very closely or he would have known it was another Zechariah, whose father was Jehoiada, who was killed there (II Chronicles 24:2-22).

(9) Regarding Jesus' stepfather, was he Joseph son of Jacob son of Mattan son of Eliezer (Matthew 1:15-16) or Joseph son of Eli son of Mattat son of Levi (Luke 3:23-24)? And how can both sets of genealogical tables validly include Shealtiel and Zerubabbel (Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27), given that both of these men are descendants of Jeconiah (1 Chronicles 3:16-19), of whom G-d has said: "No man of his seed shall prosper, sitting on the throne of David or ruling any more in Judah" (Jeremiah 22-30)?

(10) Was John the Baptist Elijah, as Jesus claimed (Matthew 11:14)? If so, why did John himself deny it (John 1:21)? Would "Elijah" have been so unsure of Jesus' messianic identity (Luke 7:19-20)? And where in our Scriptures is it written that Elijah would be mistreated, as Jesus claimed (Mark 9:13)? Don't our Scriptures indicate, to the contrary, that Elijah will be successful in his mission of restoring harmony among the people (Malachai 4:5-6)? Moreover, Mark 9:11-13 and Mark 6:16 declares that: "Elijah has come" and "It is John who I beheaded." There is no indication from the Tanach that Elijah would be beheaded. I refer you, once again, to Malachai 4:5-6.

(11) Who's to judge the sinner? According to Jesus in John, chapter 5, verse 22: "For the Father judges no man but has committed all judgment to the Son" (meaning Jesus himself). But, then Jesus contradicts himself; "I judge no man" (John 8:15) and "I did not come to judge the world (John 12:47)." So who did? Listen to Jesus this time: "You (disciples) shall judge the twelve tribes of Israel" (Matthew 19:28). Unfortunately, this contradicts Jesus' original warning to them: "Not to judge, lest you be judged (Matthew 7:1)."

(12) Paul says. "It is shameful for a man to wear his hair long" (I Corinthians 11:14). Glaringly, this is the only way Jesus is ever pictured.

(13) "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:8). Yet, Jesus asserted the contrary; that he "did not come to bring peace on earth, but a sword" in Matthew, chapter 10, verse 34.

(14) John, chapter 14, verse 9 says: "he who has seen me (in reference to Jesus) has seen the Father." This would include his mother, disciples, and others. However, the Torah teacher that "He who has seen the face of G-d shall die (Exodus 33:20)." This Torah verse amounts to eternal damnation in fundamentalist Christian theology. (Note: Even in our times, thousands of Christians claim to have seen Jesus.)

(15) According to Acts 7:53 and Galations 3:19, the Holy Torah was given to the Jewish people by "angels." But, according to Exodus 20:1, it was given to Moses by G-d: "And G-d spoke all these words."

(16) Acts 7:14 says that 75 souls went down to Egypt. Yet, Genesis 46:27 it says "threescore and ten" (70) went down to Egypt.

(17) Jesus tells Peter to buy a sword (Luke 22:36). Peter reportedly uses his sword to cut off the ear of a Temple guard (John 18:10; Matthew 26:52-53). But Jesus, even though he urged Peter to buy a sword, criticizes Peter: "All those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword (Matthew 26:52)."

(18) Continuing with Matthew 26, we find in verses 17 through 20 that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder. On the contrary, we find in John 19:14 that it was the preparation day for the Passover.

(19) Hebrews, chapter 9, verse 22 says: "Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin." But, the Bible, in Isaiah, chapter 43, verses 23 through 25 teaches just the opposite; "You (Israelites) have not honored me (G-d) with your (blood) sacrifices. (Nevertheless) I will forgive your sins." And Hosea, chapter 14, verse 2 says G-d accepts "words" of thanks (prayer in place of sacrifices).

(20) Romans, chapter 10, verse 13: "For whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." But Matthew, chapter 7, verse 21 says "Not everybody who says to me (Jesus), Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom." Thus, we learn that Jesus is not G-d or an emissary of G-d.

(21) It is claimed in Ecclesians 1:4 that the earth does abideth forever. In II Peter 3:10, the opposite is stated.

(22) Further, why does John 8:14 say that: "If Jesus bears witness of himself his witness is true if John 5:31 says "If Jesus bears witness of himself his witness is not true?"

(23) According to Matthew 17:11 and Mark 9:2, Jesus led Peter, James, and John up a high mountain after six days. Or was it eight days in accordance to Luke 9:28?

(24) The claim is made that Jesus "justified" the sinner (Romans 4:5; Romans 15:9). But, the Bible in Proverbs 17, verse 15 teaches that "He who justifies the sinner is an abomination to G-d."

Conclusion

If there is any area in which the Christian Bible's imperfections and errancy is most apparent, it is that of inconsistencies and contradictions. The book is a veritable miasma of contradictory assertions and obvious disagreements, which is to be expected in any writing formulated over approximately 1,500 years by 40 or 50 different writers, few of whom seemed to be precisely concerned with what the others had penned.

In fact the writers were just never there.

I am not interested in Apologetics. I like reading honest and objective research. I have done plenty of studying and researching for the past three years. Maybe you can answear this. Why is it that Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation before the passover in John's gospel but crucified on the day of the passover in the other three gosples. According to the synoptics Jesus had the last supper as a seder meal but John said it was a regular meal after washing the feet of the appostles. could you explain that. Is the holy Ghost the author of confusion?

Ben,

NT exegetes like Professor Crossan have listed the authors and publication years of the various epistles and gospels. See,

http://www.faithfutures.org/Jesus/Crossan1.rtf
e.g.

1. First Letter of Paul to the Thessalonians [I Thess]. Written from Corinth in late 50 CE (Koester, 1982:2.112).
2. Letter of Paul to the Galatians [Gal]. Written from Ephesus possibly in the winter of 52-53 CE (Koester, 1982:2.116).
3. First Letter of Paul to the Corinthians [1 Cor]. Written from Ephesus in the winter of 53-54 CE (Koester, 1982:2.121).
4. Letter of Paul to the Romans [Rom]. Written from Corinth in the winter of 55-56 CE (Koester, 1982:2.138).

See also two of Professor Crossan's books, The Historical Jesus and In Search of Paul, to get a more contemporay view of what really happened in first century Palestine.

Who ever wrote 1John was no appostle of Jesus; That's for sure nor was the writer of the gospel according to John. No one left their wrinting signed sincerely yours such and such. The NT is a collection of ananymous writings by pseudonyms except for epistles of Paul and some of them are falsly attributed to him. This collection was put together in the fourth century and the name inspired by God was stuck on it. Talking about the antichrist, maybe you should try Paul. His teaching is defenitely anti Jesus' teaching. How come Jesus never prophecied that a person would come after him and would explain the crucifixion and its meaning to humanity. The blood sacrifice is Paul's invention. Mark, Luke, Matthew and John don't talk about any blood sacrifice. How come? The NT is full of contradicting doctrines; maybe that's the reason there are over twenty thousand Christian denominations in the world today. Each believing they are saved and the others are going to hell...

Fulan,

You are grasping. The NT superseded the OT so your OT citations are nul and void. And the OT is so full of myths, it can be hardly considered the word of any god. Even the NT, as per Professor Crossan, is over 50% embellished. What Muslims need to do is have the religious pros like Professors Crossan and Borg, update the Koran to a rational document fitting life in the 21st century not fitting the life of wandering nomads taking directions from an illiterate "prophet" in the 7th century AD.

Andy in Arlington

A good neighbor loves his friends enough to tell them the truth so that they can be set free from deception. One who hates his neighbor would withhold the truth that can make him free.

Fulan,

The Jesus Muslims believe in is not the Jesus of the Bible. The Apostle John said that whoever denied that Jesus was the Son of God was and antichrist. He wrote:

"Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also" (1 John 2:22-23).

Muhammad denied this as follows:

"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten" (Qur'an 112:2-3).

“They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers” (Qur’an5:72).

Therefore, Muhammad was an antichrist. You too are spouting this false doctrine and believe the lie of Muhammad who denies that Jesus died of the cross and arose from the dead. This is a direct attack on one of the central teachings of Jesus Christ. He came to pay the debt for our sins and raise from the dead so that we could have new life. He did that for you. Satan does not want you or anyone to see this truth so he created a religion through Muhammad. This religion denies that Jesus is the Son of God who became a man to die on behalf of man, to pay the debt for sin that man could not pay. He then arose from the dead so that all who would believe would have eternal life.

We all know John 3:16. Qur'an 112:2-3 is a direct attack on John 3:16 and it is a denial that Jesus is the Son of God. John said that “No one who denies the Son has the Father.” That means that Muslims do not know God. Now, stop treating Islam like it is some kind of good religion that has been high-jacked by extremists. Muhammad was an Antichrist and Islam is a deception of the Devil. I pray that Muslims would see the truth of Jesus Christ the Son of God and be set free from their bondage.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

Veritas,
if that is what your religion teaches, why are you not practicing it's teachings it on this forum in regard to your Muslim neighbors? It has always been my belief that Christ is very troubled by the vast majority of his supposed followers, and that if he would appear today in person would probably be completely rejected by them.

To Veritas vos Liberabit:
Are the quotes from the Bible (read above) figurative too?????

I believe in the Quran only. No saying of the prophet Muhammad himself, for they are not reliable, and certainly no words of some nut case suyuati you mentioned is acceptable to me. The doctrine of abrogation was an abhoration and rediculous. I believe in the word of God Almighty as it is in the Quran and nothing more.

To Anonymous:
Let me say this unto you:
We Muslims believe in Jesus (peace be upon him) as one of the "Prophets of Highest Determination" (alongside Noah, Abraham, Moses and Muhammad peace be upon them all), as we also do believe in all Revelation that came to all the Biblical Prophets and Messengers. However, for the obvious reason that changes and corruption was made in those texts by people after these Prophets, and also because God CAN'T HAVE A SON!!!, we don't believe the the Old or New Testament in their current forms. Even if we wanted to, we wouldn't be able to as there are as many versions as there are sects in Christianity!! The church down the street from where I live uses a different version to the one that's up the street. Imagine!

More importantly, we can't believe in the "Word of God" which promotes the following and many more immoral, vulgar, indecent and outright inhuman acts. Take a look, if you can't find it in your Bible, check a different version :)

--Incest of Lot with his daughters:
(Genesis, Chapter 19, Verses 30-38)
--Incest of David's son, Amnon with his sister Tamar
--Rape of Dinah:
(Genesis Ch 34 Verse 1 onward)
--King David falling in love with his soldier's wife and causing him to die so he can get her..... the list goes on.

Any sane person may ask, "Is this the word of God?" For instances of Jihad/war in the Quran, we Muslims know there is time for war and a time for peace. You would be a fool if you said don't kill the German soldiers or don't attack Germany during WWII. However, there is NO CONTEXT WHATSOEVER that can justify murder, rape, incest, etc that your "Word of God" is so full of. Go this website to know the truth about your HOLY BIBLE and your religion: http://www.jamaat.net/deedat.htm

Like I said there is nothing in the quran about forced conversion. It's a lie that keeps on going. What's the matter with you all, you keep repeating the same lie. Show me where in the Quran wehere it says convert or die. By the way maybe if the Christians stop "loving thy nighbour" like they have been doing for the past two thousand years the world would be a safer and a better place to live in... You see, Christianity is based on belief only: Believe Jesus is God and that he died for your sins and heaven is yours; no good deeds are required. That's the cause of all the mayhem Christians have been causing. On the other hand Islam is based on the belief in God and living a righteous life. Everyone is responsible for their deeds and actions here on earth and have to answear for what they have done on judgment day. So the Muslims are more God conscience, that's all...

Al-Shawkani
Suyuti in his book استنباط التنزيل (Istenbat al tanzeel) says: “Every thing in the Qur'an about forgiveness is abrogated by verse 9:5.” Al-Shawkani in his book السيل الجرار (Alsaylu Jarar 4:518-519) says: “Islam is unanimous about fighting the unbelievers and forcing them to Islam or submitting and paying Jiziah (special tax paid only by Christians or Jews) or being killed. [The verses] about forgiving them are abrogated unanimously by the obligation of fighting in any case.”
Please note that I am not telling Muslims which verses to follow and which not. As I said earlier, I believe 100% in an individual’s right to choose his or her beliefs. However, what I am saying is that according to the Islamic doctrine of abrogation, these verses are null and void. They are contradicted by later verses, and in Islam it is the later verses which must be followed today.

Ben,

I am a Christian and I have no problem with God judging the world in Righteousness. However, it is not my job to convert the world with the sword as Muhammad prescribed. I am commanded to "love my neighbor," "turn the other cheek," and to return "good for evil." That is the difference.

Wake Up,

The sword is figurative. Jesus means that He is the divider between those who believe and those who do not. The context of the passage clearly demonstrates this truth. Even if it was not figurative Jesus has the right to judge the world because He is God. You will stand before Him and give an account before Him. That is the difference between Islam and Christianity. The Muslims believe they are executing God's judgment through their Jihad. The Christian must leave judgment to God.

Do not be blinded by political correctness. Islam is evil and violent. I do not know why our own citizens cannot see this truth. It shows how effective our media and educational institutions have been in turning our society into brain numbed robots who cannot discern between good and evil. We better wake up before we become like Asia Minor, the Middle East, North Africa, Indonesia, and all the former Soviet "stans." Look at all the freedom these places have. France is becoming like these places. England and the rest of Europe will be next. The USA will also be next unless we awaken from our brain numbed slumber and realize that the true Muslims want to take over the world.

Our Media, Educational Institutions, the Democratic Party, and the Liberal Right are aiding and abetting the enemies of the USA. They will be to blame for our destruction and Islamiazation.

To begin with, I take umbrage at the statement, "Human beings are both conscious and self-conscious, becoming disturbed if they feel they are left alone amid the infinite realm of existence."

I disagree to a very large extenet, with this basic tenet of your thesis. I feel neither disturbed nor 'left alone' in this universe. While I realize that it is vast, and virtually unfathomable, this does not in any way strike a fear into me, or cause me to be disturbed on any level. While it may be so for some humans, that is an ovverreachingly broad statement, and as such is false on it's face.

With that point of view in mind, this statement, "Without this loving relation with God, we remain in the darkness of loneliness and perpetual torment," has no basis in reality, and therefore is not a fact, but rather a portion of humanity's response to their PERCEPTION of the universe. I would prefer you and others not make such sweeping generalization about humanity and it's "need" to be comforted, some of us are not so weak of spirit, thank you.

Fulan :

You left out the deliberate perishing of the Japanese at the end of the second world war by Nuking their two cities while they could have dropped only one in an uninhabited space killing not a single human being and conveyed the message with just the same results . no one to this date , has been able to disprove me .
I am surprised that no one has commented or disputed your comments with the exception of the ANONYMOUS , whom I am certain if he or she had read or learned about Quran correctly , would have had arrived here with a different understanding and accordingly , recognition of it too , . I learn for the first time that Jesus was a Jew . I admit I am not knowledgeable adequately about the Christianity to dispute this and will dig into it further however , I would like to apologize to all of you in advance if I am wrong and the very same thing , about the Muslims trading the slaves .

Further , I regret very much that some , and a lot here , have chosen to advertise about their intelligence , common sense , if any , by straying far from the core of the subject on hand and likewise , compromise their class , again if any , and notably here by one writer above who addressed his excellency by using word , "HEY" ,. This word is often used by some who have been deprived of any upbringing , let alone a good one , and the word class is entirely vague to them .

Finally but not lastly , I have always , after analyzing , enjoyed and learned very much from the President's writings .
Anyone adequately familiar with the environments surrounding his Presidency , would acknowledge that his excellency has done nothing no be ashamed of but a lot to be proud of .

" May the almighty bless those who insist on just and justice for ALL "

Jesus supposed to have said: "By their fruits you shall know them..." Now, let's see the fruits of Christendom. In the recorded history there existed no violent, bloodier and crueler people than the white Christian Europeans. Maybe the Mongol hoards in their short history can come to that and claim the honors with the Christians. The Muslims on the other hand were never as brutal when they conquered other lands. The idea that Islam was spread by the sword is a lie fabricated by the Christian orientalists and their cohorts in the catholic church. History attested to the reign of the Muslims in Spain and how the Christians, the Jews and the Muslims lived side by side in peace. When the Christians took it back in 1492 they forced the Jews and Muslims either to die or to convert to Christianity. When that was not enough they forced the rest into exile. Jerusalem lived in peace and harmony under the Muslims until the crusaders came and made it their own killing every one else and treating the locals with contempt and cruelty until it was taken back by the Muslims and made safe again for every one to worship there. The Muslims are peaceful and respectful of other people's religion and way of life because of what' in the Quran.
Some one quoted from the Quran verses 5:72 thru 5:75 and I say what's your point. Making Jesus God is idolatry no matter how you slice it; The bible is full of warning against idolatry and how that can be a ticket straight to hell. Also, they added by quoting from chapter nine and I don't see why you are having a problem with that. Any one who knows any thing about the early Muslims knows that chapter nine dealt with declaring the peace treaty between the Muslims and their quraish nemesis null and void after several incidents in which some Muslims were assaulted and killed. There is no such thing in the Quran where it is the duty of the Muslims to coerce people into believing in Islam. Every one has a free to choose what they want to believe and it is not the business of any one to force any body to believe any thing. It is a lie and shameful to go on saying that. Please educate yourself before rushing to conclusions and passing such ignoramus judgment. It is shameful and dishonest to quote some thing out of context and cut and past to suit one's point of view. Any one can do that. For that matter I can make even Mother Teresa be the devil incarnate if I wanted to.

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 )

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism* to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! 51 Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; 52 for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father* against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law. (Luke 12:49-53)

"If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple." (Luke 14:26)

"But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36 NASB)

And the related Gospel of Thomas 16 (non-canonical) (SV) reads:

"Perhaps people think that I have come to cast peace upon the world. They do not know that I have come to cast conflicts upon the earth: fire, sword, war. For there will be five in a house: there'll be three against two and two against three, father against son and son against father, and they will stand alone."

for those of you that want to compare the death and killing of the bible with those of the koran, please take notice. the old testament is historical in nature. it describes past battles and wars, and past deaths. no place have i found where the old testament demands, as part of the faith, that those who are not jews, must either convert or be killed - as a commandment to all jews to do in the future. the new testament is about Jesus and not once did He tell anyone that murdering anyone was the way to heaven. the religion of islam [which does not mean peace] is based on war and murder and makes as a part of the faith the killing of those not islamic. and before anyone says they had too, the tenants of the koran were set out BEFORE anyone even knew that islam existed. the command in the koran that the religion be spread by the sword is in fact evil. and as a side light - we know that the jews are came from abraham - [the plo destroyed his burial mound after the jews left the area] and that the islamics claim that they are the children of abraham and his wifes maid - except that there is not one shread of evidence of this. other than moho saying it was - there is no historical line that can be traced back to abraham. so moho's claim that he is the deendent of abraham is just that - a claim that cannot be proven. the assertion that islam comes from abraham cannot be proven - even by writing, or anything else, from the time of abraham on.

Roy,

Defending ourselves against the militancy of the Koran is a must if we are to survive. And we will cast more than stones to do so.

Sledge Hammer,

Do forget all the people murdered by atheistic regimes like Mao Tse Tung, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. The problem is the sin of all humanity. So stop acting so smug and condescending. "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God." That includes me and that includes you.

Dear Mr. Mohammad Khatami, "What a difference a day makes, 24 little hours...." I really hope that as our States remove the articial barriers to what should be a strong, stabilizing alliance for both of our regions we can learn to appreciate the similarities in our cultures and respect the differences. I did what God asked of me. For that there is no shame, no guilt, no remorse. I thank you for your kind words. Within your short body of work are the keys to life no less. I see the beauty of Iranian culture in her children. May Allah continue to Bless you Sir as Allah most certainly has Blessed the World with you. Amen.
Thank you for trying. Short of imprisoning me, you could not have stopped me. Allah is Great, Truly.

Mr. President

Here is an example of how harsh and discriminatory verses of the Koran ought to be revised.

Existing verse 4:34(Old Koran)

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made men superior to women and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them up; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Revised verse 4:34(New Koran)

Allah has made men and women equal and they must be equal partners in marriage; the good men and women are therefore respectful and supportive and loving towards each other; and if you fear lack of support, respect talk to each other, get counselling if necessary and only as a last resort seek divorce in the courts of the land. Talaaq, the divorce of wives by husbands by merely uttering "talaaq" three time is hereby abrogated. Beating of wives by husbands or beating of husbands by wives is hereby prohibited.

Mr.President

If Muslims are to join the modern mainstraem, please initiate two steps in the Muslim world.

1) Please have scholars write a New Koran that will correct the deficiencies of the Old Koran, much in the manner that the New Testament attempted to correct the harshness of the Old Testament,

2) Instead of five prayers a day, urge Muslims to take five naps a day. The naps will reduce the stress in the Islamic world and may even put the suicide bombers at ease. The 72 virgns will visit them in their dreams in the afternoon and they will not have to take innocent lives in order to consort with the virgins in Paradise.

Here is nice article on naps. Please translate into Persian and distribute to the Iranian masses.

________________________________________________
CHICAGO - Office nappers now have the perfect excuse: New research shows that a little midday snooze seems to reduce the risk of fatal heart problems, especially among men.

In the largest study to date on the health effects of napping, researchers tracked 23,681 healthy Greek adults for an average of about six years. Those who napped for about half an hour at least three times weekly had a 37 percent lower risk of dying from heart attacks or other heart problems than those who did not nap.

Most participants were in their 50s, and the strongest evidence was in working men, according to the study, which appears in Monday’s issue of Archives of Internal Medicine.

The researchers said naps might benefit the heart by reducing stress, and jobs are a common source of stress.

It’s likely that women reap similar benefits from napping, but not enough of them died during the study to be sure, said Dr. Dimitrios Trichopoulos, the study’s senior author and a researcher at Harvard University and the University of Athens Medical School.

Heart problems killed 48 women who were studied, six of them working women, compared with 85 men, including 28 working men.

A daytime siesta has long been part of many cultures, especially those in warmer climates. Mediterranean-style eating habits featuring fruits, vegetables, beans and olive oil have been credited with contributing to relatively low rates of heart disease in those countries, but the researchers wanted to see if napping also plays a role.

“My advice is if you can (nap), do it. If you have a sofa in your office, if you can relax, do it,” Trichopoulos said.

Exactly how stress is related to heart disease is uncertain. Some researchers think it might be directly involved, through unhealthy effects of stress hormones, or indirectly by causing people to exercise less, overeat or smoke. INTERACTIVE

The researchers in the latest study factored in diet, exercise, smoking and other habits that affect the heart but still found napping seemed to help.

Previous studies have had conflicting results. Some suggested napping might increase risk of death, but those mostly involved elderly people whose daytime sleepiness reflected poor health, Trichopoulos said.

His research team studied a broader range of people, ages 20 to 86, who were generally healthy when the study began.

Still, it’s possible that study participants who napped “are just people who take better care of themselves,” which could also benefit the heart, said Dr. Marvin Wooten, a sleep specialist at Columbia St. Mary’s Hospital in Milwaukee.

“The guy ... who doesn’t take time out for a siesta in their culture is probably the guy who is extremely driven and under a lot of pressure,” which could increase heart risks, he said.

Siestas aren’t ingrained in U.S. culture, and napping usually is equated with laziness in the high-charging corporate world, said Bill Anthony, a Boston University psychologist and co-author of “The Art of Napping at Work.”

Still, some offices allow on-the-job naps, and many workers say it makes them more, not less, productive.

Yarde Metals, a metals distributing firm, built a nap room at its Southington, Conn., headquarters as part of an employee wellness program. With two leather sofas, fluffy pillows, soft lighting and an alarm clock, it’s the perfect place for a quick snooze, engineer Mark Ekenbarger said.

Ekenbarger, 56, has an enlarged heart artery and said he frequently takes half-hour naps on the advice of his doctor to reduce stress.

“It really does energize me for the rest of the day,” Ekenbarger said.

“It would be really encouraging if employers across the country really embraced that philosophy that napping is a good thing. It makes a big difference in my life.”

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated: Christians can cast the first stone. Look at the Bible and the history of the actions of so called Christians. Can you not see the violence and hypocracy committed in the name of Jesus? Isn't there something you talk about removing the log from your own eye before complaining about the stick in your neighbor's?

Mr. Khatami

I went to college in Bostn and many of my class mates were from Iran, mostly Muslims. There was one Jew and one Zoroastrian. All were highly intelligent, some brilliant. But one thing marked the Muslim students: none of them belived in Islam and they all considered Islam to be an Arabian invasion of Iran. Islam to them was Arabic imperialism. They were proud of Iran's glorious pre-Islamic history and were of the opinion that Islam not interfered and set the clock back, Iran would have dominated or at least been a major player in the fields of science, technology and arts and would also have been secular and democratic. That they hated Islam was very clear to me.

Is it not time for you and your fellow mullahs to wake up and smell the coffee?

Hey Mr. Khatami,

Are you reading these comments? What sayest thou about Islam and terror? What sayest thou about a book and illiterate prophet that teach hate? You are not afraid to say something negative about the Koran are you? Why is that?

The term "Islamofascism" was introduced by the French writer Maxine Rodinson to describe the Iranian Revolution of 1978.

Rodinson was a Marxist, who described as "fascist" any movement of which he found oppressive. But we should be grateful to him for coining a word that enables people on the left to denounce our common enemy. After all, other French leftists--Michel Foucault, for example--had welcomed the revolution as an amusing threat to Western interests.

It is only now that people on the left can acknowledge that they are just as much a target as the rest of us, in a war that has global chaos as its goal.

The word has therefore caught on, not least because it provides a convenient way of announcing that you are not against Islam but only against its perversion by the terrorists.

But this prompts the question whether terrorism is really as alien to Islam as we should all like to believe. Despite his communist sympathies, Rodinson was a peaceful soul, who spent seven years teaching in a Muslim school in Lebanon and wrote a biography of Muhammad in which the prophet is portrayed as a mild-mannered campaigner for social justice. But this biography was denounced by the Egyptian authorities as an offense to Islam, was withdrawn from the curriculum of the American University in Cairo, and has ever since been banned in Muslim countries. In my opinion Muhammad was the first Muslim terrorist. Muslim books are replete with details on how he attacked unarmed people who he deemed a threat to his ambitions.

This readiness to take offense is not yet terrorism--but it is a sign of the deep-down insecurity of the Muslim psyche in the modern world. In the presence of Islam, we all feel, you have to tread carefully, as though humoring a dangerous animal. The Koran must never be questioned; Islam must be described as a religion of peace--isn't that the meaning of the word?--and jokes about the prophet are an absolute no-no. If religion comes up in conversation, best to slip quietly away, accompanying your departure with abject apologies for the Crusades.

And in Europe this pussyfooting is now being transcribed into law, with "Islamophobia" already a crime in Belgium and movements across the continent to censor everything at which a Muslim might take offence, including articles like this one.

The majority of European Muslims perhaphs do not approve of terrorism. But there are majorities and majorities. According to a recent poll, a full quarter of British Muslims believe that the bombs of last summer in London were a legitimate response to the "war on terror."

Public pronouncements from Muslim leaders treat Islamist terrorism as a lamentable but understandable response to the West's misguided policies. And the blood-curdling utterances of the Wahhabite clergy, when occasionally reported in the press, sit uneasily with the idea of a "religion of peace." All this leads to a certain skepticism among ordinary people, whose "racist" or "xenophobic" prejudices are denounced by the media as the real cause of Muslim disaffection.

Now of course it is wrong to give gratuitous offence to people of other faiths; it is right to respect people's beliefs, when these beliefs pose no threat to civil order; and we should extend toward resident Muslims all the toleration and neighborly goodwill that we hope to receive from them. But recent events have caused people to wonder exactly where Muslims stand in such matters.

Although Islam is derived from the same root as salaam, it does not mean peace but submission. And although the Koran tells us that there shall be no compulsion in matters of religion( Muslims quote this out of context to prove Islam is tolerant), it does not overflow with kindness toward those who refuse to submit to God's will.

The best they can hope for is to be protected by a treaty (dhimmah), and the privileges of the dhimmi are purchased by onerous taxation and humiliating rites of subservience.

As for apostates, it remains as dangerous today as it was in the time of the prophet publicly to renounce the Muslim faith. Even if you cannot be compelled to adopt the faith, you can certainly be compelled to retain it. And the anger with which public Muslims greet any attempt to challenge, to ridicule or to marginalize their faith is every bit as ferocious as that which animated the murderer of Theo Van Gogh. Ordinary Christians, who suffer a daily diet of ridicule and skepticism, cannot help feeling that Muslims protest too much, and that the wounds, which they ostentatiously display to the world, are largely self-inflicted.

To recognize such facts is not to give up hope for a tolerant Islam. But there is a matter that needs to be clarified. Christians and Jews are heirs to a long tradition of secular government, which began under the Roman Empire and was renewed at the Enlightenment: Human societies should be governed by human laws, and these laws must take precedence over religious edicts. The primary duty of citizens is to obey the state; what they do with their souls is a matter between themselves and God, and all religions must bow down to the sovereign authority if they are to exist within its jurisdiction.

The Ottoman Empire evolved systems of law which to some extent replicated that wise provision. But after the Ottoman collapse the Muslim sects rebelled against the idea, since it contradicts the claims of the Shariah to be the final legal authority. The Egyptian writer and leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Sayyid Qutb, went so far as to denounce all secular law as blasphemy.

Mortals who make laws for their own government, he argued, usurp a power which is God's alone. And although few Muslim leaders will publicly endorse Qutb's argument, few will publicly condemn it either. What to us is a proof of Qutb's fanaticism and egomania is, for many Muslims, a proof of his piety.

Whenever I consider this matter I am struck by a singular fact about the Christian religion, a fact noticed by Kierkegaard and Hegel but rarely commented upon today, which is that it is informed by a spirit of irony.

Irony means accepting "the other," as someone other than you. It was irony that led Christ to declare that his "kingdom is not of this world," not to be achieved through politics. Such irony is a long way from the humorless incantations of the Koran. Yet it is from a posture of irony that every real negotiation, every offer of peace, every acceptance of the other, begins. The way forward, it seems to me, is to encourage the re-emergence of an ironical Islam, of the kind you find in the philosophy of Averroës, in Persian poetry and in "The Thousand and One Nights." We should also encourage those ethnic and religious jokes which did so much to defuse tension in the days before politicalcorrectness.

And maybe, one day, the rigid face of some puritanical mullah will crack open in a hesitant smile, and negotiations can at last begin.

Today is Valentine's day. Since the American female elected to hop off her pedestal to seek "equality" with the male of the species, Valentine's Day has been seen as a ritualistic throwback to the days when man would routinely strew the ground beneath the pedestal with candy hearts, red roses and assorted chocolates -- at least, metaphorically speaking. That is, ideally, he would do so metaphorically speaking.

But it's the ideal that counts. Valentine's Day, now driven as much by Hallmark as by the shadow of the pedestal, follows from a societal ideal deriving from the chivalric code -- a signal influence on Western civilization -- which celebrated women for nobility and strength of character.

Such origins, however remote in a post-feminist world, put the holiday in the middle of that clash we read about between the West and Islam. Distinctly non-Islamic (St. Valentine was a Christian martyr from pre-Islamic times), it embodies an old-fashioned salute to La Femme that helps distinguish the West from Islam. Where the West dreamed up the pedestal, Islam bought the burqa. Where the West gave liberty and justice a female face, Islam depicted womanhood as a lowly state of fearful passion. Where in the West sexual equality evolved, in Islam sexual inequality remains.

Such inequality makes it all the more astonishing that many of the most fearlessly outspoken dissidents to have emerged from the Islamic world are, in fact, women. I have five favorites, most of whom now live in the United States. Rather than simply enjoy Western freedom, however, they have each elected to bear witness, at great personal risk, to what they know. And for all their differences of experience, religion, culture and nationality, a common theme emerges: terrorism and the attendant dangers to liberal democracy come out of the founding texts and living traditions of Islam.

First comes Bat Ye'or, the historian of the group, who has spent decades documenting the overlooked histories of non-Muslim peoples, the dhimmi, who lived under repressive Islamic law. Such chronicles have contemporary relevance as Islam's influence expands across Europe and into America. Born in Egypt where Jews were persecuted by the government of Abdel Nasser, Bat Ye'or left the country a "stateless" refugee. British by marriage, she has written many books I wish our leaders would read, including "The Dhimmi," "The Decline of Eastern Christianity," and "Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis."

Nonie Darwish, daughter of an Egyptian intelligence officer charged with carrying out Nasser's vows to destroy Israel, saw life in Egypt from the Muslim perspective. But she never quite accepted it -- not even after her father became a "shahid," or Muslim martyr, when he was assassinated by Israel. Now a Christian, she has explained her skepticism in "Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel and the War on Terror." Her answer is must reading.

So is the cautionary tale Brigitte Gabriel tells in "Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Jihad Warns America." Miss Gabriel, a Maronite Christian, was 10 years old when civil war broke out in 1975 in Lebanon -- a war she explains as an Islamic jihad against Lebanon's ancient Christian community. She spent the next seven years living in a bomb shelter subject to frequent shelling. After her mother was wounded and ministered to in an Israeli hospital, Miss Gabriel saw Jews in a light her government's propaganda had shut out. Another eye-opener.

Then there is Wafa Sultan, the Syrian-born psychiatrist and self-described "secularist" who became renowned last year in an Al Jazeera debate on the "clash of civilizations." ("It is a clash between civilization and backwardness... between human rights on the one hand, and the violation of these rights on the other," she said, among many other things.) She hasn't written a book yet, but everyone should read her transcript online at the Middle Eastern Media Research Institute (MEMRI).

Finally, there is Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the Mogadishu-born, former Dutch parliamentarian who is probably the only ex-Muslim critic of Islam to be profiled in Vogue. ("Ali seems like a calm, reasonable woman in an Escada jacket, not at all like the kind of person who would call Muhammad a pervert or a tyrant.") With her autobiography, "Infidel," just out, Ms. Ali continues, calmly and reasonably, to press home politically incorrect points including the notion that rather than hijacking his religion, Osama bin Laden is following it.

Pedestals may be out, but these ladies deserve more than a box of candy. They deserve a podium.

Muhammad was 52 and Aisha was 9 when they married and sexually consummated their marriage. Muhammad followed an Arab custom in marrying a child who had her first menstrual cycle. But was he that innocent? He claimed to be a prophet and he should have known that he was commiting rape. This action must be questioned, regardless of it being a cultural norm, because Muhammad's action and teachings on marriage established an Islamic precedent: a girl is judged an adult following her first menses, and is eligible for marriage and sexual relations. Thus Muslim men are allowed to marry and have intercourse with young girls who have happened to have an early first menstrual cycle. As will be shown, this leads to physical and psychological damage to the child.

Muhammad's first wife - Khadija, died a few years before he fled to Medina. Later, he was encouraged to take another wife. At the age of 49 he was betrothed to Aisha, age six. Aisha was his closest friend's, Abu Bakr's, daughter. At that time, she had already been betrothed to another man but by mutual consent the betrothal was dissolved. Three years later, following her first menstrual cycle, he then formally married and sexually consummated his marriage with her.

Most Western people know it is not in a 9 year old girl's best interest to engage in marriage and sexual relations with a 56 year old man, regardless of the cultural setting. We know that, in our culture today, a person doing such a thing could possible be sent to prison for sex with a minor, statutory rape, or other related laws. Most of us find it questionable for Muhammad, a self proclaimed prophet of God, to do such a thing. We expect a real prophet to know better, or at least hear from God on the matter.

What is more critical than Muhammad's single action with Aisha is that he taught that a girl is considered an adult following her first menstrual cycle. He also taught that his followers were to follow his "sunnah" or lifestyle. Thus today, throughout much of the Mideast, girls as young as nine are often married by men old enough to be their grandfather.

But why then do we find it objectionable? After all, Muhammad did not live in our culture or under our law. He lived under a Semitic culture. And this custom of marrying girls after their first menses existed in the Mideast long before Muhammad. What is the basis for rejection of this Semite custom and Muhammad's precedent? Are there any valid reasons to criticize it? Or should it simply be rejected based upon our own cultural bias?

Aisha's actual age is the first point that needs to be established. Within the Islamic world there is division concerning Aisha's age when she sexually consummated her marriage. Many Muslims in the West have a hard time accepting Aisha was only a little girl of 9 when their "prophet" had sex with her. Some Muslims, and even Western writers, wrote that she did not have sex with Muhammad until she was 14 or so. I've never seen any textual Islamic support for their position, only conjecture. But the thought of their prophet committing such an act is embarrassing to them, so they invent, or re-write, documented Islamic history to make it more acceptable to their minds and the minds of other Western people as well.

There are a number of sources, all written by Muslims, that detail Muhammad's marriage and consummation with his young child-bride - Aisha. Ans Aisha was not the only child he abused sexually. For example Rayhana was only 15 when he murdered her husban d and then she was brought to his bed the same night.

I have used Bukhari's Hadith, translated into English by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, at the Islamic University in Medina. Bukhari's Hadith is considered authentic by the majority of Sunni Islamic scholars. It is second to the Quran in terms of importance. The central figure to approve and sign the translation is Dr. Amin Al-Masri, Ph.D. Cambridge University. He is the Advisor and Head of the Sharia Dept., at the College of Sharia and Islamic Studies in Mecca.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 7, #88:

"Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Mr. Khatami, please be honest. Would God choose a child molestor to be His Prophet?Our conclusion has to be that Allah is not God.

Anonymous "we can agree on the universal truth that killing people, flying airplanes into buildings, bombing civilian structures, whipping women for not covering themselves fully, etc. are NOT acts of religion..."

But that is the problem with religion - these things ARE religion if I say my "good book" says they are, and that is all it takes is saying so. Once again, anonymous, I have to say that you are making an appeal to a "true" religion that some other people just aren't getting "right".

Koranic Verses in Referring to Judaism and Christianity

5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.

5:73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.

5:74 Will they not rather turn unto Allah and seek forgiveness of Him ? For Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

5:75 The Messiah, son of Mary, was no other than a messenger, messengers (the like of whom) had passed away before him. And his mother was a saintly woman. And they both used to eat (earthly) food. See how We make the revelations clear for them, and see how they are turned away!

9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

9:30 And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!

9:31 They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)!

9:32 Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdaineth (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse.

9:33 He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse.

Ben,

Prove that Islam does not command true Muslims to slay infidels. Look at Asia Minor, North Africa, and the Middle East. These places were all taken by true Muslims waging Jihad. Everywhere Islam dominates there is murder, war, and destruction. I know it is hard for you to see looking through a Western politically correct lense. The true Muslims do not look at the world the same way you do. They look at it through the lenses of the Qur'an and the Hadiths. They take them literally.

Pointing out the sins of Christians who were in conflict with the words of Jesus does not prove anything. When a Muslim conquers a people by war for Islam they are in complete unity with Muhammad's life example and what he wrote in the Qur'an. If a Christian tries to force a person to believe in Jesus with war they are in conflict with Jesus’ life and teaching.

You assertion about reading anti-Islamic websites does not prove whether or not what the people are reading on those sites is true or not. Prove that they are wrong Ben. Deflecting to other issues also does not prove that the assertions made on those sites are incorrect.

I see that the Haddiths quoted above have a source at the bottom. Is USC wrong? They have simply translated what Bukhari has recorded about what Muhammad has said. Bukhari is one of the most trusted collections of Hadiths in the Islamic world. You make assertions Ben but you need to back them up. Stop spewing the brain-dead talking points from our media and academic institutions. Do some research; maybe you should read some of those sites so you will have a more balanced view. It is good to have your views challenged by those that are in conflict with what you believe or else how would you ever know that you were wrong about something?

Our society is currently being brainwashed by a politically correct anti American media and our for the most part anti American academic institutions. People need to think about what they are being taught. They need to examine what Islam actually teaches.

Mr Khatami, in your post of February 12 you say:
"""
Human beings are both conscious and self-conscious, becoming disturbed if they feel they are left alone amid the infinite realm of existence. The only thing that would remove this panic is to believe in a God who is purely real, good and beautiful, whose wisdom dominates the whole universe, and then to have a loving and conscious relationship with Him. ...

And this devotion to the essence of Truth -- God -- is commonly shared by all religions and in particular the great Abrahamic religions.
"""
In your post of November 15 you said:
"""
All divine religions have called humanity to the One, Sacred, and Absolute Truth. Should we aim to strip religion of the Absolute and the Sacred, all its content shall be thereby nullified. ...

While truth is in essence absolute and unique, it has infinitely diversely differing manifestations. It is a calamity to mistake any partial manifestation divulged and discovered on a singular basis for the whole truth.
"""
My reply to your posts:

While I have great respect for the deep truth of your position and agree with much of your exegesis of it, I think the Western philosophical and scientific tradition leaves parts in need of revision. The Abrahamic religions are now insufficient in themselves to rescue us from the world we have allowed to grow up around us.

To start with the points of agreement, we each need a psychic fixed point, an absolute foundation on which we can find tranquility. To find this through the father figure of the Abrahamic God is psychologically natural, and gives rise to a ritualized form of the respect for our ancestors that we humans find immediately comforting.

However, the modern science of the mind and the brain and the modern philosophy of language and history together suggest that the quest for foundations and tranquility can reasonably be pursued through a wide range of spiritual and lifestyle practices, and cannot reasonably be pursued in opposition to the revealed facts of biology and neuroscience on the one hand and linguistic and historical research on the other.

The revealed facts are these. First, we are creatures with no supernatural access to truth and no practical way to transcend our rooted position in nature. Second, our sacred texts and their authors are impossible to interpret clearly enough to enable us regard them as reliable guides to wisdom or truth, and certainly not as the only guides. Third, we have obviously made such great progress on matters of science and history that we now have a duty to rethink and renew our entire approach to the question of spiritual foundations. I am convinced that this renewal has already left most the specific doctrines of the Abrahamic faiths behind.

Either we can fight against this renewal and destroy much of what we have achieved over the centuries or we can rejoice at the opportunity to unite behind a purer and clearer vision of truth and goodness. I am sure that the renewal will enable those of us who survive to look back with gratitude both for the good work of our ancestors and for the fact that we have moved on and left their simple views behind.

Thank you for your wise words and for your courage in posting here in English.

Fulan,

Calling people “dumbos” proves nothing. I for one like to think about what someone is saying. I like to question and weight things to see if they are true. Is that what you call dumb? I am sorry the majority of the Muslim world fails to question and weigh what the Qur’an teaches. After 25 years of unbelief I came to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, the Messiah, the Savior of the world. I thought about His words. I saw His words lived out in the way He lived. For example, Jesus said:

“Greater love has no one than this, that someone lays down his life for his friends” (John 15:13).

Jesus demonstrated that very kind of sacrificial love on the cross for anyone including you who would believe that He is the Son of God.

Your statement about “Christian Nazis” is an oxymoron. Jesus was a Jewish man. This means that Hitler was an antichrist. It sounds like you are just throwing mud on the wall to see what will stick. Many people will be mislead by your words who do not know any better.

Your tirade about the Indians, WWI, WWII, Slavery, and the Crusades are just a blanket that you are using to cover the truth about Islam.

I am sorry for the slavery that took place in this country (Most slaves were sold to the USA by Muslims). I am sorry for any unrighteousness commited by our country. That does not change the truth that Qur’an commands the Muslim to “slay the infidel” (see Qur’an 9:5) and that Muhammad said that he will fight until the whole world says there is no God and Muhammad is his prophet. There is not an open ended command in the Bible telling Christians to subjugate the whole world to Christianity by slaying the infidels. Christians are told to share God’s message, those who believe will be saved but those who do not will be judged when Jesus returns. It is not the job of the Christian to subjugate the world to God through the sword.

It would be wise for you to question Mr. Khatami, to question the words of the Qur’an, to examine the life of the prophet to see if His life was truly righteous. Maybe if you would read the Bible you would see that Jesus is the Son of God. I know that the Qur’an says that Jesus is not the Son of God. How do you know that this assertion is true? Muhammad came along six-hundred years after Jesus and calls into question what is written in the Bible. How do you know that Muhammad was right? I know that that is what you have been told but prove that it is true. Muhammad said he received these revelations from God, how do you know that is true?

I can't believe how ignorant and rude some people can be sometimes. They read some hostile and defamatory web sites about Islam and they come running spouting their venom and hate. Some people would argue that Muslims are commanded by God to kill the "infidels." That's the most stupid thing I ever heard. A reasonable person who reads the Quran would not say such a thing. Also, quoting out of context and not knowing the reasons for revelation for certain verses. The ones they love to quote and regurgitate were revealed when the Muslim community was under siege. I read them and I do not see any problem with them. There is time for peace and there is a time for war against oppression and tyranny. Sometimes there is no place for turning the other cheek so to speak. You might have a problem with that; fine. We don't have to agree on every thing. In the Quran, wars are fought for defensive reasons only; and if the other party quits, Muslims are commanded by God to stop and cease fighting. For me that's reasonable enough. Later on when Islam spread out to other places the Muslims always assimilated and lived with the local inhabitants in peace. There were some exceptions of course but I don't see any major wars that the Muslims instigated. Sadly, that can not be said about Christianity.
Now let's talk about the war mongering and blood thirsty state of people in Christendom. Every where the white man goes he leaves a trail of blood and destruction behind him. Total annihilation of conquered people and civilizations especially if they happen to have different religion from his. According to the Christians if you don't believe that Jesus is God you are doomed. So you deserve to be killed, tortured and done away with because you are not a believer and you are with the prince of darkness. You are the enemy of God. Ask the indigenous inhabitants of this land here we call America. Instead of the love that they preach on the pulpits on every Sunday, and sometimes on Wednesdays, the white men brought genocide. The Indian men just about went extinct. We think we are enlightened now; but until recently, only fifty years ago, think about it, black folks here were treated like some kind of sub humans. Their lives were worthless. Killing a dog was a bigger deal than killing a black man. It was the law of the land. How about World war one and two that were fought in Europe. What do you say? Over one hundred people died. How about the Holocaust; six million Jews murdered for no fault of their own. You are going to say Hitler did it. Give me a break. Hitler did not drive the trains, turned the gas on in the chambers and man the prison camps. Maybe you should read what Martin Luther wrote to see where it all started. How about the inquisitions; you must have read about all the killing done in the name of Jesus "our savior and lord." How about the barbaric wars the Christians call the crusades. One number I saw said about nine million people died during the crusades because they were what the Christians call "pagans and heathens." You might remember the genocide done by the Serbians against their Muslims countrymen. About a million people died there. Men tortured, crucified and young girls were raped. All this in the name of the 'loving' Christian god. How about the invasion of Iraq where we have one hundred and fifty thousand thugs armed to the teeth with the most advanced weapons the world had ever seen. About eight hundred thousand dead so far. Over one million refugees. Total destruction of infrastructure and property and there is no end in sight. The thing is the ones they call themselves Christians are for the war and the killing that go on over there. How about the genocide in Rwanda, the most Christianized nation in Africa. About eight hundred thousand people killed there about a decade ago; Christians massacring other Christians. The colonization by the Europeans of other people in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries is another portion of history that people forget about. The Civilized white Christian man used and abused the resources of the native people and killing any one who got in their way. The list goes on and on. How about the worst scourge and curse that world had ever seen: Slavery. The white man really got good at it, didn't he...
In the final analysis I don't see why people in the States think they are peaceful and that the Muslims are violent when in reality the opposite is true. It is a fact that nineteen misguided Muslims flew those air planes in the towers and cause the death of three thousand people; that was a crime; however what the US is doing now over there is worse of a crime imaginable.

Your Excellency Khatami

Your thoughts on prayer, your insight into the birth of civilisations and cultures; their basis for ethics, arts and knowledge, to be traced to religious aspiration, are profound and you have expressed them with such poetic beauty.

While on the one hand some claim that science makes religion redundant, science itself is showing strong evidence of the benefits of religious practice in the quality of life of the practitioners of real religion. Your piece highlighting the benefits of prayer is backed by growing scientific evidence.

It is wonderful that you remind all believers that we all pray to the same God no matter what we may call Him.

Soja John Thaikattil
Sydney, Australia

These Hadiths demonstrate that Islam is militant and not peaceful.

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 179:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Turks; people with small eyes, red faces, and flat noses. Their faces will look like shields coated with leather. The Hour will not be established till you fight with people whose shoes are made of hair."

olume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/052.sbt.html#004.052.260

many of you would do well to realize that not all brown people are the same. there are different sects of islam. the sunni sect has been responsible for 100% of the attacks against Americans and US interests around the world. The Shias have only ever attacked anyone when they come barging into their lands.

so there is a bad sect and there is a good one.

We do not need to read the Koran in Arabic. The actions of the Taliban and the Islamic suicide bombers plus the words of the current president of Iran are sufficient evidence of what the Koran teaches. Or maybe these Muslims and their supporting mullahs are not reading the Arabic Koran properly? Please explain!!!!

"Protected people" “Dhimmi” is nothing more than a slave. True Muslims (you are not a true Muslim if you do not want the subjugation of the whole world to Islam) are waging war on Israel and the entire West right now. Iran and most of the Middle East, Indonesia, and North Africa are bent on the destruction of Israel and the USA. I am not naive enough to believe what Muslims and our own politically correct media are telling me here in the USA.

I see how you are trying to deflect the truth by playing the "Inquisition card." You Muslims are famous for that. I see what the true Muslims are trying to do. They are following the Qur'an and the example of muhammad.

Mainstream Muslim theologians have explained that religious deception is taught by the Qur’an itself: “Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them” (Qur’an 3:28). In other words, don’t make friends with unbelievers except to “guard yourselves from them”: pretend to be their friends so that you can strengthen yourself against them. The distinguished Qur’anic commentator Ibn Kathir explains that in this verse “Allah prohibited His believing servants from becoming supporters of the disbelievers, or to take them as comrades with whom they develop friendships, rather than the believers.” However, exempted from this rule were “those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda said, 'We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.' Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, 'The Tuqyah [or taqiyya, the shielding of what is in one's heart] is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.'"

Veritas vos Liberabit: please read my comments above. You guys have been angels either!! Wouldn't you agree with me? There are still Hindus in Afghanistan, Christians and Jews in ALL Arab countries. There is no compulsion in Islam. The Jews of Spain were protected by Muslim Turks at a time when the "Holy" Inquistion was putting them to the sword. Those Jews still live in Turkey. And surprise, surprise, there are actually Jews living in Iran, more secure and peacefully than those in Israel!

To all those dumbos who question Mr Khatami:

Regardless of whether Islam/Iran/Muslims have problems, only those with a higher moral standing should point them out. How many people were killed by Christian Nazis, by the Soviets, by the Japanese? How many millions were slaughtered in WWI and WWII? Vietnam? Korea? 1st Gulf War? Current Gulf War? How about the American Indians' brutal ethnic cleansing? How about enslavement of Africans? How about millions dead as result of outrageously brutal colonization in the past in Asia and Africa? How about the "Holy" Inquisition? The Crusades?... The list goes on! You knuckl-heads need to read your own bloody past before passing judgments on others or calling people terrorists!!! No one has even said sorry for those crimes!! A few thousand Israelis have been killed after they occupied Palestine, or a few thousand innocent Americans died as a result of oppressive, lop-sided policies of their government (supporting dictators that include Mubarak and, yes, Saddam), as horrible as it has been, completely pales in comparison to the crimes of the Westerners/Christians/Jews. So Shut Up. BTW, Islam and Muslims never had problems with anyone until they were colonized, occupied and treated unjustly. Let go of our oil, our lands and beleive me, and stop supporting puppet dictators and you will see Bin Laden and his likes will be crucified by the Muslims themselves.

No, Islam is bent on our destruction. The Qur'an teaches that true Islam will subjugate the whole world. We need to reject authentic Islam and its evil ideology. The true Muslims want to infiltrate every country at every level. They start out peaceful until they get a foothold. Just look at Asia Minor, North Africa, and the Middle East. These places once had large numbers of Christians. Now they are war zones. If someone were to publicly suggest that Jesus is the Son of God in any of these places they would do so at the risk of their lives. Look at what is happening in France now. The police are afraid to go into some neighborhoods because the true Muslims will come running out of their apartments and stone and fire bomb their police cars. Look at what is happening in England. The true Muslims preach openly on the streets that they are not citizens of the UK. They preach that true Islam is going to take over the world. Our political correctness has blinded us to the truth about the murderous prophet Muhammad and the teaching of the Qur'an. The true Muslims will set up Sharia Law once they get enough power in any country. The last place we need authentic Muslims is in our government. Opps, I guess that was not politically correct. Oh well, I do not care about political correctness. I care about my country. I care about all the people who are being butchered by true Muslims. Where is the Charles Martel of today?

I dedicate the telling of these truths to my brothers who were killed in the Marine Barracks in Lebanon by true Muslims. I have not forgotten their sacrifice.

Veritas vos Liberabit

DDear Noor,
I'm sorry that you've seen the worst of "Muslims" and thus choose not to embrace their religion. However you should not engage in defamation yourself. You call Muhammad (may peace and blessings be upon him) a man "of low character." I'm not sure how you have the arrogance to say ch a thing about a man whose own enomies could not say such a word. ear Noor,
I'm sorry that you've seen the worst of "Muslims" and thus choose not to embrace their religion. However you should not engage in defamation yourself. You call Muhammad (may peace and blessings be upon him) a man "of low character." I'm not sure how you have the arrogance to say such a thing about a man whose own enemies could not say such a word. This is a man whose sworn enemies, the pagans of Mecca, left their valuables in his possession because they trusted no one else; A man who was willing to forgive those who through garbage on his person; a man who sought no vengeance against those who made war against him and his companions. Show me a man who has any of the qualities of Muhammad and I would easily call him a prophet or among the righteous. So I beg you to watch your words which speak to your own ignorance.

Dear ITjihad,

I realize that Mr. Khatami was talking only about the value of prayer, and I agree with him (I also respect him as a leader).

However, my point was that it is important to consider not only the act of prayer, but the things that are being prayed for. To pray for destruction and death is not OK (and I doubt that God would answer such prayers in any case).

As to your question, no, I have not read the Koran nor heard the Hadith, but I have read the Bible, and I know all about the Bible's support for violence. For example, in the Old Testament, God tells the Hebrews to take what is now the West Bank by force, expelling its inhabitants. Thus, Israel's modern-day building of settlements is simply following the commands of the Bible, literally interpreted.

But I don't agree with those commands. The world of today is not the world of Moses, nor of Muhammad. Instead of obeying the literal commands of these ancient holy books, which will often lead us to violence, we should consider our actions in the context of our modern world.

This is something that I think neither the jihadis of al-Qaeda nor the ultra-orthodox Jews of Israel's West Bank settlements understand. It's time to listen to the spirit of holy books, not the letter.

Hello. I am a recent convert to Christianity from Islam although informally I along with my mother practised Christianity for the last three years.

I would like to clear some misunderstandings about Islam and Jesus and Christians,

Christians do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet of God and they do not believe that the Arabic god Allah that Muslims worship is the same as the Almighty God who came to earth as man to save humanity. We believe that Christianity is the final chapter of Judaism and the final answer for all humans.

Muhammad tried to incorporate Jesus into his Islamic theology merely to ingratiate himself into the Judeo-Christian fold and be accepted as a prophet of God. God would never choose a man of such a low character as Muhammad to be His Prophet.

My warning is especially to Christians who could be fooled into becoming Muslims. Christians have always been dhimmis or second class citizens in Muslim countries. An example is Iraq where they are being killed or driven away by Muslims if they do not convert to Islam.

I illustrate my claim with what is happening to Christians in my native Pakistan where along with Shias and Hindus they are being exterminated.

Recently a Christian woman Martha Bibi was accused of blasphemy. It’s just a matter of time before the blasphemy case against Martha Bibi of Kasur proves to be another one of the many concocted and fabricated cases falsely implicating innocent Christians.

The rate at which the controversial blasphemy laws are being misused is alarming. The law only requires the testimony of one Muslim man to bring charges against another person for blasphemy; from the time of its conception it has been used for personal animosity and revenge against the religious minorities, Christians in particular. It is being easily and widely misused and Christians are being victimized at the hands of Islamic extremists. Not a single case under this law has been proved. The higher courts of Pakistan have acquitted those accused of blasphemy, after they were sentenced by the lower courts.

Twenty individuals accused of blasphemy, including six Christians, have been murdered during their trials.

When the alleged persons are acquitted by higher courts, it is found out that the cases were registered primarily on the basis of personal animosity.

Furthermore, once acquitted, they still continue to live in fear of their lives. Their families uprooted, their lives jeopardised, the chances of leading any kind of a safe and normal life are diminished forever -– their faith being their only fault.

The religious minority leaders have constantly demanded that the blasphemy laws be repealed and until the laws are repealed, the government must ensure that those who are accused of blasphemy and those who defend them are given proper protection and the norms of justice are strictly followed.

While discriminatory laws play havoc with the lives of innocent non-Muslims, the authorities continue to look the other way, of course having issues to resolve like whether to allow the nation to celebrate ‘basant’ or whether there should be more than one dish at weddings.

How many more innocent people like Martha Bibi need to face the brutality of prison, how may more families need to be traumatised, how many more homes need to be shattered, how many more innocent lives need to be lost, how many more children need to be orphaned, before the government can turn its attention towards the discriminatory laws that are affecting the non-Muslim citizens of the much-talked-about ‘moderate enlightened’ state of Pakistan.

What is happening in Pakistan will happen in the United States and Canada if we do not take steps to stop the growth of Islam. Non-Muslims are fast approaching a zero growth rate in population because of education. Among Christians had non-Christians been not accepting Jesus as Saviour the number of Christians would go down over time.

On the other hand the growth rate of Muslims is very high about 3% and it is matter of time before they become the majority and then all non-Muslims are doomed unless they accept the Arabic imperialism that goes by the name of Islam.

4: 88How, then, could you be of two minds* about the hypocrites, seeing that God [Himself] has disowned them because of their guilt?** Do you, perchance, seek
to guide those whom God has let go astray - when for him whom God lets go astray thou canst never find any way? (4: 89) They would love to see you deny
the truth even as they have denied it, so that you should be like them. Do not, therefore, take them for your allies until they forsake the domain of evil***
for the sake of God; and if they revert to [open] enmity, seize them and slay them wherever you may find them. And do not take any of them**** for your
ally or giver of succour, (4: 90) unless it be such [of them] as have ties with people to whom you yourselves are bound by a covenant, or such as come
unto you because their hearts shrink from [the thought of] making war either on you or on their own folk - although, if God had willed to make them stronger
than you, they would certainly have made war on you.***** Thus, if they let you be, and do not make war on you, and offer you peace, God does not allow
you to harm them.******

your servants hear and obey great allah:
The Hadith No. 284, The Muslim, volume one, says that any Jew or Christian, who heard of Muhammad but did not convert to Islam, and died in disbelief, would rot in hell! Thus Islam withdraws from all Jews and Christians the right to believe in their faiths, and pratice them as such.
"The unbelievers of the People of the Book and the idolators shall be in the Fire of Hell therein dwelling for ever; those are the worst of creatures. But those who believe, and do righteous deeds, those are the best of creatures..." (XCVIII: The Clear Sign: 5)
Here those Jews and Christians, who spurn Islam, have been lumped together with the idolators such as the Hindus, and classified as 'the worst of creatures'. Therefore the Koran commands:
"O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport..." (V: The Table: 60)
Here those Jews and Christians, who spurn Islam, have been lumped together with the idolators such as the Hindus, and classified as 'the worst of creatures'. Therefore the Koran commands:
"O believers, take not as your friends those of them, who were given the Book before you, and the unbelievers, who take your religion in mockery and as a sport..." (V: The Table: 60)
"The true believers say: Has not God ordered a chapter that commands the holy war" (Sura 47:22); or elsewhere: "Kill the idolaters wherever you find them, imprison them, besiege them, ambush them" (Sura 9:5); and, "Make war on unbelievers" (Sura 9:29). "When you come upon unbelievers, massacre them, tighten the bands of the captives that you will have taken. Then you will set them free, or you will release them for a ransom" (Sura 8:57).
"To Allah, there are no animals viler than those who do not believe and remain unbelievers" (Sura 8:57). That is why it is necessary to Islamize them by force and by humiliation. And those who resist Islam and its founder must be chastised, according to the Koran: "Here is the fate of those who fight Allah and his messenger: you will put them to death or you will make them suffer the torture of the cross; you will cut their hands and their feet alternately. They will be driven from the country" (Sura 5:37).
"Do not display cowardice, and do not call the infidels to peace when you are superior to them" (Sura 47:22).
your true followers hear and obey.

may the following verses come to pass:
4.89": They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

"4.90": Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.

"4.91": You will find others who desire that they should be safe from you and secure from their own people; as often as they are sent back to the mischief they get thrown into it headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and (do not) offer you peace and restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear authority.

Oh dear god, i pray that barack HUSSEIN obama will quit denying his truth faith. that he will publically admit that he is islamic, that his father was islamic, that his step father was islamic, that he moved to indonesia with his mother and step father and went to islamic schools - where he learned the will of allah, and that when he went to a catholic school, that he openly declared himself to be islamic on the ofrms he filled out. that he learn not to deny his faith even if its just a scham to get elected president of the great evil America.

First, unless you've read the Qur'an in arabic, you haven't read it--you've only read someone's interpretation. Secondly, you cannot read the Qur'an without understanding the context in which the verses themselves were revealed. If you are genuinely interested in learning, I suggest iether learning Arabic or reading an interpretation that includes explanations of the verses as themselves understand it. An excelent example is Muhammad Asad's interpretation easily found on the web. Without this background you are really no different than the ignorant extremests which attempt to bring there own interpretations to any text.

Patrick,

Yes indeed, I condemn and renounce the militant passages of any religious book to include Revelations which by the way is quite suspect to being the word of any god. See Professor Crossan's take on Revelations in his books.

"Mr. Khatami as with all Muslims does not renounce the militant passages of the Koran. Until he and his fellow Muslims do, I and most non-Muslims do not want them in our neighborhoods or flying in our planes. The constant "Koranic wishy-wash" is far from convincing as to their intentions. Just how hard is it to say "I renounce and condemn the militant passages of the Koran"?"

EXACTLY. DITTO from this American Woman.

"Kelly:

Mr. Khatami,

I apologize for the attacking, emotionally-based comments of American people. They are rooted in ignorance and fear.

Posted February 13, 2007 6:03 PM"

OH, NO YOU DON'T. YOU DO NOT SPEAK FOR ME.
I've read the Koran -
I've talked to Muslims - women and men.
And I, sadly, come away with the same impression every time......

IF THE KORAN IS TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY AS THE WORD OF GOD, IT PRAISES THE DOMINATION OF WOMEN, REQUESTS THE MAIMING AND DEATH OF "OTHERS/INFIDELS" AND LAUDS THE MALE TO BE DOMINANT OVER ALL WITH NO PERSONAL RESPONSIBLITY OTHER THAN HE'S DOING WHATEVER HE DOES IN ALLAH'S NAME. What a cop-out.

That about sums it up. Welll....then there's that MULTIPLE WIFE thingie too, but, hey....small potatoes to having your head drilled to prove a point in the name of a god by the name of Allah.

I SWEAR....how anyone can read any other interpretation into the text is really beyond me.

testung

Mr. Khatami,

I apologize for the attacking, emotionally-based comments of American people. They are rooted in ignorance and fear.

Mr. Khatami,

Why do you presume to speak for all people? I have no belief in any dieties, including the Islamic, Jewish, and Christian godlings, and I feel no 'panic', nor am I disturbed by existence, infinite or not. I do find it interesting that you admit faith in gods is born out of your fears rather than reason.

Humanity, in my opinion, would be perfectly complete without mumbo-jumbo such as groveling in the dirt five times a day while facing some random spot on the map.

I assure you that my lack of a relationship with your imaginary skymommy has brought me neither loneliness nor torment.

Dr. Mr. Mohammad Khatoni,
Thank you for your beautiful prayer and your outreach to the west. I agree that to devote in supplication to the essence of truth, God, is shared by all three Abrahamic religions. Unfortunately, this is not a concept easily understood by many modern western people (as indicated in some of the responsses you have received so far) particularly Americans, because the striving of the individual has superceded the need for a personal relationship with a loving God. In the Catholic faith we have an acronym for prayer: ACTS (A for adoration, C for contrition, T for Thanksgiving, and S for supplication).

People have committed evil in the name of religion for centuries and there are radicals in all the major religions who do things outside of the mainstream. Pope John Paul II apologized to world for many of things the Catholic church did in the past just before he died. Sometimes I think people get confused between the truth of a doctrine and the implementation of that doctrine by human beings.

Please continue your outreach. There is a Catholic prayer that begins "Glory to God in the highest and peace to his people on earth." This is my wish for you and the Iranian people. AR

Sledge Hammer wrote:

""Wouldn't it be great if you could get leaders in the Muslim world to condemn those who misuse Islam," I will equate "misuse" with "incorrect" or simply "wrong". This statement assumes that there is a "right" interpretation of Islam. This orientation is the essensial problem causing the civil war in Iraq today: "We have it right and you have it wrong". The peace and tranquility imagined in this letter only stands a chance of becoming a reality when we all give up this absolutism."

Sledge Hammer changed my word "misuse" to "incorrect" or "wrong" as distinguished from a "right" interpretation of Islam.

This was taking a sledge hammer to what I wrote!

BTW, my comment was not directed just at Islam, but at other religions too.

The point is not what is a correct theological interpretation of a given religion but rather whether we can agree on the universal truth that killing people, flying airplanes into buildings, bombing civilian structures, whipping women for not covering themselves fully, etc. are NOT acts of religion no matter how loudly those conducting them declare that they do so in the name of religion.

I disagree with Paris - Mr. Khatami was the President of Iran and although he was seen as somewhat of a reformer compared to some of his countrymen, he is fair game for criticism - I hope that it is done respectfully and without vituperation.

And who is beating the drums of the greatest satan, death to America and muslim kiling muslim in the name of religon...my grandmother!

Concerning the christian liberatted,

Will you condemn the militant parts of the bible (such as Revelations) so we may take your prayers seriously?

Khatami understands what religion is. He advises us to believe in a god in order to feel better. For this it is not necessary to ask whether such a belief is jusified, whether there is in fact any god.

And indeed most people find that faith does make them feel better. Plus, while membership in organized religion costs money, it's much cheaper than antidepressants.

So while I personally don't believe, I have no problem with justifications such as Khatami provides. Medication is expensive, and most people in the US or in the third world don't have health plans.

Dear Mr. Khatami,

I really liked your essay. Beautifully written.

However, you need to understand that not all people need religion and that there are those of us who are perfectly capable to seek truth, beauty and good whithout having to turn to a church.

To me, my faith is an extremely personal thing that I do not wish to, or have a need to, share with others. I have always wondered why some people need a religious interpreter (i.e. priest, preacher, imam, etc.) to introctrinate them with dogma.

It is my sincere belief that organized religion is the root of all evil.

Oops,

Make that "the OT was superseded by the NT".

Well Tez, thats all well and good for now, but they're going to lose me as a reader if they keep it up.

ItJihad,

Mr. Khatami as with all Muslims does not renounce the militant passages of the Koran. Until he and his fellow Muslims do, I and most non-Muslims do not want them in our neighborhoods or flying in our planes. The constant "Koranic wishy-wash" is far from convincing as to their intentions. Just how hard is it to say "I renounce and condemn the militant passages of the Koran"?????????

A few notes about the OT:

1. It was superceded by the NT (and even the NT is "chock-full" of embellishments).

2. The OT continues to fail as an historic document as more and more archeological studies show no evidence of OT stories.

3. Much of the OT fails a reality check: magical gardens and trees, talking snakes, global floods, talking bushes, parting of seas, wandering in a minor deserts for 40 years???????

Not pushing it so much as putting it out there to generate discussion and therefor page hits for advertisers.

Religion is a hot button subject so it's eminently suited to evokinf resonses, as you just did.

p.s. whats w/ the post pushing religion now?

I've always been offended by people who claim to know how other people feel. I'm not panicing at the thought of a Godless universe. Your premise is wrong and therefore the rest of your arguement is wrong.

"Do you see the important words there...'used to'.

It's called evolution of society and culture that such things are no longer tolerated legally or on a State accepted level.

Such evolution has passed Islam and it's cultures by though.
Which is the point."

So things always progress in a linear fashion, and that times of stress won't cause a regression among those threatened by that stress?

Somehow I doubt it.

And I don't recall lynching being legal anywhere in the US during the first half of the 20th century.

There's a certain smug condescension in our moral absolutism that I find unnerving because it assumes that we are somehow 'beyond all that'.

My guess is that we are no different to those we condemn, and that we are all capable of being culturally sophisticated, socially advanced 'good Germans'.

What a beautiful, thoughtful piece. Regardless of the religion or nationality of the writer, the closing prayer - Your name sounds beautiful, in whatever language we may use - is one everyone should be mindful of in all that we do.

---and only learning the truth can clear them up:---

We know the truth.
We see it and hear it every day.

For all who are curious about Islam, please see the following websites. As a Muslim American, I know how many misconceptions there are about Islam, and only learning the truth can clear them up:

www.whyislam.org

www.learnaboutislam.org

Or, better yet, visit your nearest Majid/Mosque and speak to the imam(leader of the congregation) to have your questions answered.

Mr. Khatami: I appreciate your efforts to increase political and cultural freedoms in your country. However, I disagree with some of the statements in your piece in the Washington Post, specifically:

And this devotion to the essence of Truth -- God -- is commonly shared by all religions and in particular the great Abrahamic religions. Without this loving relation with God, we remain in the darkness of loneliness and perpetual torment, while we deserve to move forward toward excellence, light and perfection. >>>>>>

I believe it is possible for human beings to seek truth, beauty and good without turning to God. There is no reason why atheists cannot seek truth, beauty and good just as much as people with faith in God. Moreover, not all religions share a devotion to God- not Humanism, Buddhism and more.

Let us open our hearts and minds if we are to lead our nations to a compassionate peace and prosperity and an end to war. Let us also end hypocrisy and have the courage to adopt humility in understanding that our religion is not the only path to truth, beauty and good.

---For a country that openly harbored one of the world's worst terrorist organizations - the Ku Klux Klan,---

Do you see the important words there...'used to'.

It's called evolution of society and culture that such things are no longer tolerated legally or on a State accepted level.

Such evolution has passed Islam and it's cultures by though.
Which is the point.

Honesty:

You draw a distinction between Church and state. In fundamental Islam (like Socialism) they're one and the same. And be careful when spouting about your beloved founding fathers and the "poisonous" influence of religion. It was government they feared and tried to limit, not faith.

I think some posters have forgotten that this posting is about faith and religion, not foreign policy. Mr. Khatemi's article is a beautifully written dialogue about his thoughts on prayer and man. Mr. Khatemi has used his voice via the Washington Post and his talks at the Kennedy Center to foster connections between those who follow Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. It is so desperately needed in these high tension times. To attack his post merely because people identify any Iranian figure with the radical Islam and Ahmadinejad is close-minded and will only lead the world into more violence. We already know from Iraq that military action does not work. It does not contribute to stability in the Middle East and does not reduce the threat of terrorism. At this critical point, American need more open dialogue with Iran, in any and all forms. I only wish more Iranians would speak with him.

---"... to believe in a God -----

...Means you can be a bigot, homophobe and sexist fool and get away with it by saying your idiocy is divine!

For any of my fellow Christians by upbringing or current belief who make Islam synonymous with terrorism, allow me to cite the Calvinist governor Bradford of Plymouth colony in reaction to a massacre of Indians, many of whom died by fire: of the victims "thus frying in the fire and the streams of blood quenching them" he "gave the praise . . . to God." And so declared an officer in the same Pequot war, "Thus did the Lord judge among the Heathen, filling the place with dead Bodies."

For a country that openly harbored one of the world's worst terrorist organizations - the Ku Klux Klan, we sure seem to be preachy when it comes to others.

The capacity for unthoughtful condemnation and even hatred exists everywhere, as some of the responses here indicate. We're no better than those we disdain, we just haven't done anythng like that for a while.

CF WRITES:
"You demonstrate your political skills and why you are such a powerful leader. I hope not to offend you, but your God IS Allah and he demands that the unbeliever either convert, die, or live as a second class citizen. Allah, through the religious police, will pull people out of their places of business and force them to pray five times a day or go to jail. We do not want to be forced to pray five times a day and have large speakers wailing all the time. What kind of God is it that will force himself on people this way? This God is Allah. This God you worship and love seems more like an ideology, not unlike communism."

Yep. That about sums up mixing religion and politics.

"Navin:

Yeah Mr. Khatami,

Thanks for the sermon and I whole heatedly agree with you that prayer is beautiful and tranquil.

Now lets face the reality, why do you want to kill the Sunnis, Jews, Christians and Hindus? Why do you preach that every Friday?

Posted February 13, 2007 1:29 PM"

EXCELLENT QUESTION. Yeah, Mr. Khatami, WHY?

I agree with JON 100%

I’m really stunned by some of the responses to President Khatami’s remarks. Khatami was a reform-minded president who championed a relatively pro-Western youth movement and was democratically elected to two terms as president, much to the chagrin of the clerical leadership. I haven’t always agreed with his pronouncements, but have always been conscious of the competing political discourses in Iran and recognized that his line of thinking reflects a marked improvement from his more radical rivals. If anyone is interested in getting past the religious stereotyping and grandstanding on previous posts, I suggest that they study Iranian political history during the 1990’s and contrast that with what we’re hearing from Tehran since the invasion of Iraq. We’ve abetted the radicals there by insulting or, worse, ignoring the moderates. It is this level of ignorance that has marginalized the political power of Iranian moderates and resulted in President Khatami contributing to an on-line discussion instead of governing a country. I pray continued intolerance doesn’t deprive us of this dialogue as well.

If there is a God, would he bother with such mundane aspects of life such how women dress?
God is greater than that and sir you mullahs are no more than charlatans on the take. At least the Jews and Christians priests were defanged by reformation. Next it is your turn.

What do they sat about the mullah: if a mullah falls on top of a woman or money there is no way in the world you can get him to get up again.

As a fellow Persian I wish you lots of luck

Dear Mr. President - respectfully sir, I do not believe that the loving relationship you have with Allah is the same God that I worship. Sir, I notice how careful you are to use the generic term God and to avoid saying Allah. You demonstrate your political skills and why you are such a powerful leader. I hope not to offend you, but your God IS Allah and he demands that the unbeliever either convert, die, or live as a second class citizen. Allah, through the religious police, will pull people out of their places of business and force them to pray five times a day or go to jail. We do not want to be forced to pray five times a day and have large speakers wailing all the time. What kind of God is it that will force himself on people this way? This God is Allah. This God you worship and love seems more like an ideology, not unlike communism. Sir, you are a great and mighty politician and your ideology is cloaked in a religion. This ideology has made you powerful and served you well. If the people want Allah, then let's hope they realize that the ideology comes as part of the package and that ideology is the antitheist of freedom.

Yeah Mr. Khatami,

Thanks for the sermon and I whole heatedly agree with you that prayer is beautiful and tranquil.

Now lets face the reality, why do you want to kill the Sunnis, Jews, Christians and Hindus? Why do you preach that every Friday?

So, you are suggesting that we should make up fantastical stories, make our life revolve around these made up stories, and indoctrinate our children with these made up stories--all to make ourselves feel less anxious?

This is not wisdom, this is weak-minded egoism.

Dear Mr. Khatami,

First, let me thank you for your willingness to have a dialogue. There is far too much hate engendered by misunderstanding.

God may be light, eternal, and all knowing. I have no way of knowing. But the idea of god is easily misused when religion mixes with the worldly realms of politics and power. Was that not a fundamental aspect of Shi'a teaching for most of history?

The founding fathers of this country very wisely separated the Church and the State. I only see poisonous behavior here at home when Churches try to interfere in what is properly the secular realm of govenment.

I would ask you as a man of peace to encourage your religious leadership in Iran to back away from manipulation of the government there - or else to condemn those leaders for the hypocrites they evidently are.

To Noah and Concerned The Christian Now Liberated,

Have you read the words of the Koran? Listened to the Hadith?

In short, aside from snide commentary do you know of what you speak? Mr. Khatami has spoken of his idea of the reason for prayer, not what to pray for. Nowhere in his speech does he speak of violence or death.

Violence in the Koran is roughly comparable to violence in the Bible (look at the Old Testament) Tolerance in the Koran is the same as tolerance in the bible both good and ill.

My own feelings on the matter are of no concern here. I merely ask that you calm down, think rationally, and look into subjects before commenting.

Dear Mr. Khatami,

Do those prayers include "Death to America, Death to Israel!!"?

I've heard that, in Iran, they do.

Civilization is Love.Goodness is Compassion not man can scourge woman.Beauty is Freedom not vieled slavery.Civilization is Equality not two women equals one man.Goodness is Cyrus the Graet who saved innocent people from Atrocity.Beauty is Correctness not marriage with Seven years old girl.Humanity means to be Human Being not tilth not snake.Humanity means to go to Stadium.

Well Iran has Police that whip the legs of women in the street who dare to wear 3/4 length trousers in the heat.

Iran hung 117 homosexuals last year.

Don't you think this real world rubbish (farcical in the 21st century!) is what this guy should be bothering with (though he may agree with it?) and not writing yet more prayer drivel on here.

"Wouldn't it be great if you could get leaders in the Muslim world to condemn those who misuse Islam," I will equate "misuse" with "incorrect" or simply "wrong". This statement assumes that there is a "right" interpretation of Islam. This orientation is the essensial problem causing the civil war in Iraq today: "We have it right and you have it wrong". The peace and tranquility imagined in this letter only stands a chance of becoming a reality when we all give up this absolutism.

Please, you're a freakin' terrorist. Shut the hell up.

Dear Mr. Mohammad Khatami

I enjoyed your letter. Your beliefs as you wrote them about God sound as if you don't condone war and or violence. The reason I made that statement is that I was surprised when I read that you were once the President of Iran. I did not expect that at all. I think it is good that you were asked to share your beliefs about God. Many people will react negatively when they hear the word "religion". They have had bad experiences themselves, or heard of others bad experiences, or just equate "religion" with bad altogether. I myself tend to to view Islamic religions as violent. Even though I have know some islamic people who do not condon violence of any type.
My point is that I really want to believe what you wrote about God. But then I have christian friends who believe that killing in war is ok in the eyes of God. Just like the terrorists who believe in killing innocent people, and children. They believed that they did it for their God, and their religion. Its my hope that you will share more of your beliefs in the future on this site.

"... to believe in a God who is purely real, good and beautiful, whose wisdom dominates the whole universe, and then to have a loving and conscious relationship with Him. Such a loving and conscious relation with God gives tranquility to human beings."

"Humanity would, therefore, remain incomplete and human beings experience a life of worries and insecurity if they do not devote themselves, in a lovingly and supplicating manner, to God - the essence of Truth.
Without this loving relation with God, we remain in the darkness of loneliness and perpetual torment, while we deserve to move forward toward excellence, light and perfection."

These words sound wonderful - might even make a believer of an atheist.

No wonder you were such a successful politician!

I have thought that those who misuse religion to foster their violent agendas and political aims are to be condemned.

It is clear that those who kill in the name of Islam ... or Christianity ... or Judaism ... see the Abrahamic religions are all susceptible ... are not practicing religion at all, but some perversion.

Yet, when you were President and even now, you do not speak out evenhandedly to condemn those who so misuse religion.

Wouldn't it be great if you could get leaders in the Muslim world to condemn those who misuse Islam, together with Jewish leaders and Christian leaders who likewise make it clear that violence from their side is unacceptable?

Why has it not occurred to you to do this?

Writing this sort of stuff for WaPo is fine, but it's not worth squat except for your ego.

Think on it.

Dear Mr Khatami:
It is a beautiful letter that you write. It is unfortunately a bit too altruistic for modern society ..... Personally I have shed the trappings of the Hypocracy of Catholocism. From the mishandling of the Priests abusing Boys .. Can you believe highly educatated Christian men taking advantage of their position and the church protecting them. All those priests should be imprisoned, labeled as sex offenders, and the Bishops tried for being accessories after the fact. How many Catholic women use some form of birth control. Priests should be allowed to marry. It is unnatural for them not to be allowed to marry and have children .. Women should be allowed to be Priests. They would probably be better at it. .. Nuff Said .. Right now I would identify myself best as a Unitarian-Universalist. I believe Robert Fulgum was a Unitarian Minister, and Fred Rogers, who if I am correct was also a Navy Seal .. I believe 5 of our Presidents were Unitarians ....... I am glad you mentioned Abraham, I think many people do not realize that Islam sprang from Judeo-Christian beginnings and Abraham is celebrated at Eid al Adha in December. If only people would look at the similarities rather than the differences perhaps we would be closer to world peace. If only Christians would actually practice what Jesus preached of .. Turning the other Cheek .. If only certain factions did not have to seek revenge for every offense .. If only people were not so greedy .. If only more people were like Bill and Melinda Gates and used their wealth to benefit so many others .. So Say a prayer for world peace .. keep the altruism but remember there are bad people out there who do are not altruistic.

"Without this loving relation with God, we remain in the darkness of loneliness and perpetual torment, while we deserve to move forward toward excellence, light and perfection."

Sir,

Have you ever experienced living without a loving relation with God? If so, speak to us of this.

If not, then you know not what you speak of.

You said:

"Beyond all extensive philosophical and verbal discussions, let us believe that "need" and "question" would make human beings anxious and anguished."

Why should anyone "believe" anything beyond extensive philosophical discussions? Belief based on what? Your verbal discussion?

Questioning things (like your "beliefs")might make some human beings "anxious and anguished", but these authentic human emotions are give us humanity and generate personal growth; and they are preferrable emotions to any feeling of bliss based on the fantasy you might conjure. Human beings have evolved beyond the childish illusions you would foster on the weak and stupid.

I don't think you realize how offensive you are to thinking human beings.

Thank you.

Mohammad Khatami,

Condemn the militant passages in the Koran/Qu'ran and we might listen to your prayers. God sure is not listening to anyone who professes belief in such significant stupidity that demands death to all non-believers.

If only we could truely realize the truth of God we wouldn't have the wars between our peoples. There is only one God and He is holy!

Dear Mr. Mohammad Khatami,
I had a wise uncle once who constantly told my wild and rebellious Cousin Doyle that he needed to learn the difference between his wants and his needs. We all do. When the two become one, and they in turn become meshed with our Vision of Love, there simply can be no denial. Life itself is meaningless without completion of destiny. She is within me Sir, and there is NO turning back for me now in this lifetime. This War within the State of your neighbor has ensured that through God's Will I can only surmise. I do not Question my Shepherd...I shall not want. I need her, Sir. Allah Bless you and yours Always and 1 day.