"My question would be: Can theists see beyond their noses? And how?"

My view exactly, tojby_2000.

Mr. Grinnan, I recommend to your attention "THANK GOODNESS!", an essay written by Daniel Dennett following his brush with death three years ago. He addresses your silly, insulting question with more wisdom and good feeling than I'm accustomed to seeing in any believer.

It's located here:
http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/dennett06/dennett06_index.html

Mr. Grinnan writes: "My unspoken question is always, "Well, whom are you thanking?"

This isn't as silly as it sounds."

Well yes, actually; it is as silly as it sounds. Gratitude is a state of mind; I'm grateful to my fellow human beings, I'm grateful to nature, I can also be thankful without having to direct that thankfulness to some imaginary person or force.

Can I thank my "lucky stars"?

How about my "Lucky Charms"?

Mr. Grinnan must be a fool when he writes - My unspoken question is always, "Well, whom are you thanking?"

As from being thankful FOR his wife and kids, his job, the food laden table, the weather etc., he is probably thanking his wife and his kids for being part of his life, perhaps his employer for hiring him, and he might even be thanking Mr. Grinnan and his family if they are the ones hosting the thanksgiving dinner. By the way, he is doesn't feel the need to thank anyone for the weather, because the weather is caused by natural phenomena and not god as Mr. Grinnan seems to suggest.

But how do we really know that Farnaz lives in New York and CCNL1 lives in Philly??? Keep in mind this is an anonymous blog and imposters abound!!!

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/GRATEFUL

a: appreciative of benefits received
b : expressing gratitude
2 a : affording pleasure or contentment : pleasing
b : pleasing by reason of comfort supplied or discomfort alleviated

I appreciate the benefits I have received as a white male American. This is as silver a spoon as one can be born with for an average, random person born on this planet.

Of course it's entirely arbitrary. I could have been born a woman - oppressed by the various religious cultures here on earth. I could have been born non-white - also oppressed to a greater or lesser degree on this planet and in this country.

Should I be grateful for the arbitrary conditions of my birth? Perhaps not. I would be more grateful for less oppression, less suppression, less repression; particularly from the religionists and racists and sexists we must endure every day.

Humanity has been around for a long, long time on this earth. There have been better times and worse times to exist, better cultures perhaps and worse cultures ... but I am grateful that the people I know and love do love me, and will forgive the general assshilishness with which I approach their foibles.

As far as some gods or spirits or whatever - thanks for nothing.

For my Christian brothers and sisters as we prepare for the Thanksgiving holiday...

The manner of our love demonstrates the legitimacy of our gratitude. In the end, it is envisioning one's self in God's
economy and serving for Christ's sake that
actually proves we are grateful for all that God has done for us. It is easy to say that we are thankful, but the Bible demands that we prove it!

"Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful." - 1 Corinthians 4:2 (TNIV)

I am thankful that ccnl1 does not live in New York and that I do not live in Philadelphia.

I am thankful to the founding fathers for the constitution's first amendment freedom from religion.

EdByronAdams wrote "One can be thankful for the good fortune to be born into a productive society which, for the most part, is at peace. We can be thankful for the loving relationships we enjoy and the opportunity to earn our bread."

That identifies what you're thankful for, not necessarily to whom you're thankful. Thanks implies a person to whom you're thankful; gratitude is different than merely a sentiment of gladness at having the benefit of something. You say you're thankful for your good fortune regarding the circumstances of your birth, etc. But to whom are you thankful for that good fortune?

You can be thankful to your parents for giving birth to you; you can be thankful to the countless known and unknown people who made the society into which you were born for their contributions; but your "good fortune" consists in part, for example, in benefiting from the *convergence* of those two things, rather than either one separately. Are you thankful for your good fortune (if so, to whom)? Or are you just glad it happened?

Oh, no...How could anyone who looks around at the pathetic state of this world and doubt be grateful for anything? I'll tell you what we're grateful for: We're grateful that the religious zealots haven't come for us yet. You're going after the Muslims now...are we next?

“But in the end, my thanksgiving is to a God who somehow--and I don't always understand how, so don't ask--makes it happen.” Oh, rly? You don’t understand how it happens, and since chance or luck or whatever seems like an unfulfilling answer to you, Mr. Invisible Friend must have done it? That does sound silly.
“I think it's this: Gratitude is in and of itself a spiritual state.” According to you, that is. Spiritual, by definition, means: 4 : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena>
I don’t believe gratitude or thanksgiving to be a sacred, supernatural or religious thing. Gratitude is a feeling one has in response to the recognition that one has received something good, either materially or emotionally. If you want to associate that feeling with a god, go right ahead. But don’t assume that it is that way for everyone else.
“He seems genuinely aglow with gratitude.” Of course he is. I’m an atheist who is genuinely thankful for my job, my family and friends, and the help of strangers. God is unnecessary.

I think Bart Simpson said it best:

"Dear God, we paid for this stuff ourselves, so thanks for nothing."

The questions- Can an atheist be grateful? And if so, to whom?- are a little offensive. They are akin to "Can atheists be moral? And why?"
My question would be: Can theists see beyond their noses? And how?

One can be thankful for the good fortune to be born into a productive society which, for the most part, is at peace. We can be thankful for the loving relationships we enjoy and the opportunity to earn our bread.

None of these things requires a big guy in the sky. I am not an atheist so that these things for which I am deeply appreciative do have a spiritual tinge but I can see how others who do not believe in any mystic connection might have similar feelings of appreciation.

One thing that all should appreciate in this country is the law and the culture that allows such bounty to flow to so many citizens. We should honor and obey those rules but also reflect on how they work so well.

I am thankful that the US was and never will be part of the Ottoman Empire nor the kingdom of Judah.

What a wonderful column!
I will think about what you wrote more than once this week, as my family gathers from all over the country to be together for one day out of the year. Although these past months have seen more awful events than any previous year in my life (the death of my wife to cancer, brothers and sisters losing their jobs, crises in my childrens' lives, a brother-in-law gravely ill, my father slipping into alzheimer's), I feel full to the brim with thankfulness for all the good that has nevertheless showered upon me. Funny, I never appreciated half so much these things when times were good. But now I greet every sunrise (and sunset) with joy. Thank God for our ability to be thankful when we need it most!

I am thankful that, as of yet, the US has not been renamed the Holy Christian Empire.

"When the aforementioned relative's turn comes, he is as profuse in his gratitude as any of us: He is thankful for his health, his wife and kids, his job, the food laden table, the weather, etc."

And

"He seems genuinely aglow with gratitude. Sometimes he even gets choked up."

Well, you know, the holiday IS named Thanksgiving. You can hardly blame the guy for using the terminology. Appreciative and grateful also apply. Ever consider that he is grateful to his hosts for the company, the meal, the venue?

Now let's contrast his genuine responses with yours!

'"My unspoken question is always, "Well, whom are you thanking?"' and

"I don't know who else to thank for all the great stuff in my life. I can take credit for some of it; luck explains a lot. But in the end, my thanksgiving is to a God who somehow--and I don't always understand how, so don't ask--makes it happen."

So, you not only lack imagination, you even take potshots, in print, at a relative who is more grateful for his good fortune than you are.

Ever heard of this phrase?

Whited sepulcher--a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives.

I wonder if holding up a relative to ridicule qualifies?

"But in the end, my thanksgiving is to a God who somehow--and I don't always understand how, so don't ask--makes it happen." -- Edward Grinnan

----------

I'm betting you have *never* understood how God makes it happen. If you could actually, transparently demonstrate, even once, the mechanism by which an entity from outside time and space influences events within time and space you would have gone most of the way to scientifically proving the existence of an intentional god. So then, if you have understood that process at *any* time, the entire planet is awaiting your explanation.

Until then however, perhaps you should be thankful to your blubbery, effusive relative for having the good manners to not ask you to prove the existence of your sky buddy.

Happy Thanksgiving

A Guest Voice. Edward, go back to living in your fairy tale. Glad it gives you comfort. Stay there.

This article makes very little sense to me. Thankfulness to an atheist has very little to do with god and a lot to do with luck, fate, destiny, or whatever you want to call it but the thanking is to the people around you.

His relative is giving thanks to his family because he is thankful for his wife and kids, he is giving thanks to his parents most likely and his willpower to be in the place he is today with food on the table, with good health thanks to his doctors, and his job thanks to his parental upbringing or hardwork. Thanksgiving is and has always been about being thankful for the wonderful people that make your life what it is; the family around you at the holiday, and the wonderful people that make sure you have food, sanitation, and good health.

Thanking god for all the great things that people do for you is as silly as it sounds, because their are a lot of people like your relative, An Atheist, that do good things because they are good people. Not because god told them to be good.

But of course this is america and he is entitled to his beliefs, he just shouldnt be so confused as to who his relative is thanking, because they are actual people who deserve the most thanks.

I am thankful to the farmers who produced the food on my table, the drivers who trucked it to the market, the people who gather in love around my table.

Really?
I have long thought Thanksgiving as one of America's great secular holidays. I personally don't give thanks to any deity, but rather to my family and friends, our society, and our wider culture that enables us to prosper. You imagine atheists selfishly thanking themselves, but we simply thank those who play a hand in our happiness.
I'm reminded of those people who say "Thank god for you!" to people that do good onto them. It is quite possible to simply say "Thank you".

Hmmm, there is that "Carstonio" ID again. We can all be thankful that said probable imposters have waned in number since WAPO's daily sign-in was initiated.

Well, I am grateful for the better angels of man's genetically compelled tendency to act in our collective best interest, for my comfortable lifestyle and good health and for good friends and family. The targets of my gratitude are all as real as the homemade cranberry sauce holding up that family heirloom spoon.

I am thankful for the people that worked to help put food on our tables. I am thankful for meat inspectors, so I don't eat tainted turkey. :D And agricultural inspectors, so we don't get E. Coli from the pumpkin pie.

"This isn't as silly as it sounds. My gratitude is directed to the ultimate source of all blessings--a loving and divine creator."

-------

That is as silly as it sounds!

This is just semantics. As an atheist, I'm glad, rather than thankful for the good things in my life.

I don't attribute any of them to some supernatural being or force. Rather to the flukes of circumstance that have put me where I am, and allowed me to make the choices that I've made.

I am, however, grateful to my family for taking the time and making the effort to be together, and to those who purchase the food and do the cooking.

"Can an atheist be grateful?

"Thanksgiving is a spiritual holiday and a spiritual act, but to whom is our gratitude directed?"

Take your choice:

Fate.

Luck.

Chance.

Random fluctuations of causes and conditions.

Karma / Destiny.

Nobody / Nothing - For these are the folks who landed you in your favorable situation.

I am thankful for the brilliant people who included the freedom of religion in the Constitution so that I can be free from mythology in my life and can be free from the tyranny of any religion. Being thankful is not necessarily spiritual and does not need to be directed at some unproveable and mythological creator. We can be thankful that we live in a society that allows us to live in a certain way and allows us the opportunity to achieve success, however we might define it. I am thankful to the farmers who make the food, and the police who keep the streets safe, and the doctors who keep me healthy, and my wife for putting up with me. Zeus is nowhere in my thoughts and needn't be for me to be thankful. The notion that thankfulness is meaningless for atheists is preposterous.

"I therefore assert that Thanksgiving is the most spiritual of holidays because it evokes in us a sense of profound wonder at the blessings we have. The act of being grateful enjoins us to a spiritual continuity; it is an acceptance of God's part in our lives. I think that's a dilemma for my atheist relative."

The burden of proof is on any claim that one or more god-beings have any part in the events that affect human lives. Grinnan makes the mistake of assuming that one has to be an atheist to question this idea. A deist may believe in god-beings that have no part in such events.

The larger issue is that anyone can have that sense of wonder at the things in his life that bring him joy. It's not necessary to make the assumptive leap that these are due to sentient beings beyond human sensory detection. Gratitude for those things doesn't have to be directed at anyone in particular. Since there's no evidence of any master plan for either the good things or bad things in our lives, maybe that should encourage us to be all the more grateful for the good things.

Thanking the USA taxpayers is sufficient thanks on this or any other Thanksgiving Day!!!