Once again,

Farnaz, Farnaz, Farnaz,

If you are going to criticize, be fair and answer the question, whose koranic and cited NT examples are the Islamics and Christians following???

And considering your problems with the Torah's ninth commandment, for all we know there was no Ismael!!!

Managed to get Luke in for CCNL1. Only John (and etc.) is missing. Will appear soon.

FOR CCNL1: Highlights from the book of the religion of love. Luke, John, etc., to follow.

Mark

# Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

# Jesus sends devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

# Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

# Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10

# If you're ashamed of Jesus, he'll be ashamed of you. (And you'll go straight to hell.) 8:38

# Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

# Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16

Luke

# God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20

# Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

# John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

# Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

# Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

# Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

# Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

# "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." 13:3, 5

# According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30

# In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31

CONTINUED
# Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

# Jesus also believes the story about Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

# In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27

Farnaz, Farnaz, Farnaz,

If you are going to criticize, be fair and answer the question, whose example are the Islamics and Christians following???

And considering your problems with the Torah's ninth commandment, for all we know there was no Ismael!!!

Farnaz, Farnaz, Farnaz,

If you are going to criticize be fair and answer the question, whose example are the Islamics following???

Just to add to ccnl1's quotes, some NT highlights. MOre to come from MLJ, etc.

Matthew
# Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

# Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

# Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

# Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

# Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 7:19

# "The children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

# Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

# Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

# Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

# Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

# Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

# Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

CONTINUED
# Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

# "And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors." 18:34

# In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 22:12-13

# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

# God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

# The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46

ccnl1,

Do you know my father? Do you know what Ismael meant to him? Do you know what he had seen before that, in his life?

Do you think your post appropriate?

"The suffering, the suffering of man...."

Exodus 32: 3,000 Israelites killed by Moses for worshipping the golden calf.

Numbers 31: After killing all men, boys and married women among the Midianites, 32,000 virgins remain as booty for the Israelites. (If unmarried girls are a quarter of the population, then 96,000 people were killed.)

birs1987:

The main message of Hanukkah is the struggle of a tiny number of people called Jews to survive against all odds, against the assimilation in the ocean of hostility.
--------------------------
Yes, its is. Our first Hannukah in this country marked our escape from the persecution of Iran. I remember the first night. We were gathered a the table looking at the menorah, when my father, a quiet, gentle, reserved man, suddenly began to weep. Only once before had he shed a tear in my presence, following the murder by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard of his boyhood friend, Ismael.

Along with my mother, we three children, struggled to summon words to ask, to soothe/ He said, "The suffering, the suffering of man...."

Shalom!

Farnaz

Something for Mr. Luxenberg's family and friends to read at their next gathering:

Christmas, the embellished story of the birth of a simple, preacher man named Jesus.

As per most contemporary NT exegetes, his parents were Mary and Joseph although some say Jesus was a mamzer, the result of a pre-marital relationship between Mary and a Roman soldier.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

Jesus was not born in Bethlehem at least the one we are familiar with and there were no pretty wingie thingies singing from on high, no slaughter of the innocents by Herod, no visiting wise men and no escape to Egypt.

"John P. Meier - Professor at Notre Dame

Meier [Marginal Jew I,216-219] notes that the "affirmation of Jesus' descent from David might easily be placed alongside his birth at Bethlehem as a theologoumenon (a theological insight narrated as a historical event) if it were not for the fact that numerous and diverse streams of NT tradition also affirm Jesus' Davidic lineage."

"Meier suggests that the belief that Jesus was "son of David" may have been held by Jesus' followers prior to his death, with his resurrection then being understood as a form of enthronement. However, he notes that such messianic views, whatever their provenance, cannot prove Jesus was "literally, biologically of Davidic stock."

http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?title=007_Of_Davids_Lineage

Conclusion: the holyday of Christmas is historically a non-event. Ditto for the Feast of the Magi and the solemnity of Mary aka New Years day.

Kwanza

"Kwanzaa, which will be celebrated for the 44th time in 2009, was established by Dr. Maulana Karenga. The seven-day festival (December 26 – January 1) is secular, not religious, and aims to strengthen African cultural identity and community values while providing a spiritual alternative to the commercialism of Christmas."

Chanukah (Hanukkah)

"Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, is one of the most joyous times of the Jewish year. The reason for the celebration is twofold (both dating back to c. 165 BCE): the miraculous military victory of the small, ill-equipped Jewish army over the ruling Greek Syrians, who had banned the Jewish religion and desecrated the Temple; and the miracle of the small cruse of consecrated oil, which burned for eight days in the Temple's menorah instead of just one."

"Originally a minor holiday, it has become more lavishly celebrated as a result of its proximity to Christmas."

Some candles burn for weeks so the menorah "miracle" is hardly miraculous.

Rabbi Wolpe can probably give us his take on the historical validity

test

To Birs1987,

My family celebrates Hanukkah, not Christmas, as my essay stated. We visit with our friends on their Christmas, and share in their tradition, as they do in ours. This was an essay about friendship, not assimilation. I'm glad to clear up your misconceptions.

Steve Luxenberg

The Jews For Christmas From the Washington Post

They are Anne Applebaum, Paula Span, Gopnik, Ted Gup, and now Steve Luxenberg.

Most likely these so-called Jews are married to non-Jews. But this isn't their main attraction.

I also do not see any problem with these newspaper employees enjoying Christmas.

Certainly, the Jews always experience huge pressure from the dominant culture to hide or assimilate.

That is why there are groups like "Jews For Jesus," "Jews for Obama," and the" Jews for Christmas."

I wouldn't be surprised if tomorrow someone would assemble a group "Jews for Bin Laden."

I already know some who would be honored to be members in the "Jews for Bin Laden."

What always puzzles me why these Luxenbergs, Applebaums wanted to share their unique experiences with other Jews, and why it has to be published in the Washington Post, and always before Christmas?

The main message of Hanukkah is the struggle of a tiny number of people called Jews to survive against all odds, against the assimilation in the ocean of hostility.

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This inspired me to check at the local library. They have it on CD. I'll be listening this weekend. If you haven't checked your local library for books on CD, this is your perfect opportunity. Thanks for the article!

Thanks for sharing a lovely story. Merry 12/25!

Yes, Dylan Thomas' Child's Christmas in Wales is a family favorite here. For I am descended from 11 generations of Welsh Calvinist Methodist Ministers, the second of whom was kicked out of the Church of England on St. Bartholoemew's Day in 1662 - for refusing to preach in the English Book of Common Prayer - because it was not in Welsh!

Dylan Thomas who lived close to where my ancestors lived in southern Wales never learned Welsh. But he had that wonderful Celtic Welsh poetic tongue and pen in his DNA.

I have insured that my three children, five grandchildren, and now four great grandchildren have heard the Child's Christmas in Wales every year. We will play it again this afternoon.

This is one family who knows and appreciates their roots.

Frankly, I think I completely understand the point of this essay: Finding an entree into the previously inaccessible world of Christmas traditions. And treasuring those traditions and the comforts they offer.

As a recovering Catholic/aspiring Buddhist/confirmed agnostic, I can relate.

God(?) Bless Us Everyone !

Frankly, I can't see the point of this essay, although I'm a great admirer of Dylan Thomas.

Did your friends observe Hannukah with your family?

Hanukkah

The swollen dead fish float on the water;
the dead birds lie in the dust trampled to feathers;
the lights have been out a long time and the quick gentle hands that lit them --
rosy in the yellow tapers' glow--
have long ago become merely nails and little bones,
and of the mouths that said the blessing and the minds that thought it
only teeth are left and skulls, shards of skulls.
By all means, then, let us have psalms
and days of dedication anew to the old causes.

Penniless, penniless, I have come with less and still less
to this place of my need and the lack of this hour.
That was a comforting word the prophet spoke:
Not by might nor by power but by My spirit, said the Lord;
comforting, indeed, for those who have neither might nor power--
for a blade of grass, for a reed.

The miracle, of course, was not that the oil for the sacred light--
in a little cruse--lasted as long as they say;
but that the courage of the Maccabees lasted to this day:
let that nourish my flickering spirit.

Go swiftly in your chariot, my fellow Jew,
you who are blessed with horses;
and I will follow as best I can afoot,
bringing with me perhaps a word or two.
Speak your learned and witty discourses
and I will utter my word or two--
not by might not by power
but by Your Spirit, Lord.

--Charles Reznikoff