BuckminsterJ:

"And what on earth could be taking Spidermean so long on his algebra test? Shoud we explain how books work. My guess is that he gnaws on them . . ."

On The Spirited Atheist, a couple of hours ago, he said he "missed" them...so I gave all three to him again. After excuses and hemming and hawing, he could not even begin to solve them -- until he admitted defeat and I provided both formulas and answers for all 3. He used the formulas I provided and proved, on question 1, that I had the right numbers, but had misassigned the negative value in the answers.

Schaum,

Henry VIII! A beautiful example of the righteous, spiritual origins of religious worship – devoid, of course, of any human desire to fulfill personal appetites, however base, and assume unwarranted moral/political authority. Surely a unique event in human history? I know Salero and CounterWW agree.

And what on earth could be taking Spidermean so long on his algebra test? Shoud we explain how books work. My guess is that he gnaws on them . . .

SALER021:

"... intelectual..."

Actually, the word is "intellectual", bright boy...something which you will never be accused of being.

CounterWithWhining:

"Look in the mirror longer. maybe you get it."

Wow. Snappy riposte! I bet you were outstanding in the third grade -- both times.

You cannot prove god, you cannot prove jesusgod, you cannot prove anything. In your frustration you make a public showing of your irrational anger by shaking your impotent little fist. We're all impressed, but...

You lose again.

Spiderstupid:

BTW -- no fair getting help from math sites or blogs!

Buckminster:

"Oh right, individuals! With a history of "murderous, intolerant and irrational behaviour"? "

Hey, guy. Ever read Henry VIII? It will tell you everything you want to know about Stalin. And Margaret Thatcher, for that matter.

Spiderstupid:

Here's another simple algebra problem:

c=x-b/x Solve for x

If you can get these three right, I have a real engineering problem for you.

. . . which doesn't excuse you from not knowing the definition of "oxymoron."

Self-replication is cloning you fool.
Aside from a salamander here and there, all vertebrate animals (in fact most eukaryotes) engage in ... drum roll ... sex.

Do you know what meiosis is spidey?

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiosis

Sexual reproduction is not self-replication. You're basing your entire absurd argument on a false premise.

You're a lot of fun spidey. I don't know as I've ever heard the rantings of a more absurd monomaniac as you.

CounterWW,

Atheists, like anyone else, can be irrational. Though I suspect they are, on average, less prone to be so than believers.

Spiderstupid:

1) If x*x + 2x - 35 = 0, then x = ?

2) If ax*x + bx +c = 0, then what is x?

Salero,

Oh right, individuals! With a history of "murderous, intolerant and irrational behaviour"? Like the god of the Old Testament, maybe? Or Revelations? Or do you mean Allah?

Yes, those individuals are absolutely nothing like Stalin et. al. - you know, demanding unquestioned and undeserved loyalty; handing down absurd and capricious laws; doling out excruciating punishments just for the hell of it. And all to their own "people," no less!

Yes, you make a very well-reasoned point. Clearly, you're very, very smart.

Spiderstupid:

"Where are the atheists and evolutionists? Suddenly, they are nowhere to be found."

Oh, we're right here, SS...its just that not many of us pay any attention to you any longer -- an "engineer" who can't do simple algebra problems, and who finds it necessary to "push" his godbeliefs on others, hoping to buy "god's" forgiveness for molesting your own nephew. Everyone here knows you are a mental case.

It reminds me of the story in the Bible which tells of unbelievers being SPEECHLESS when they will face God.

Maybe what was playing in their minds in that event is, "Wow, I was DUPED. Whoever told me there was no God? Darwin and Dawkins, ahh, those two fools... now what am I going to do? "

.

Oh yes! I forgot, the previously mentioned are/were well know for their Atheism/foolishness. Among other mental, intelectual, moral and spiritual defects.

.

Where are the atheists and evolutionists? Suddenly, they are nowhere to be found.

Step 1 in self-replication.

Engineers use molds to make a device to form it to their liking. Self-replication don't use any molds. This is the first step engineers should solve and for years, everyone is in the dark.

Atheists and evolutionists are idiots and this is a scientific fact.

Where are the atheists and evolutionists?

?

BUCKMINSTER

You either have extremely poor reading skills or you are swaddling in your own spat.

Where did I mention any "regimes"?? Clearly for even a kindergartner, I mentioned names of INDIVIDUALS, very well known thru History for their Murderous, Intolerant and Irrational behaviour. Against their own people and against any good and Godly intentions of anyone who had the missfortune to be on their rampageous ways.

???

Buckminster,

"RATIONAL atheism" ?

Oxymoron.

Schaum-

Mental Masturbation is your forte I am sure.

Look in the mirror longer. maybe you get it.

laslo23 wrote "What an idiot. You have obviously never been anywhere near animals raised for slaughter."

Do you know that an outsider male lion kills the cubs once he defeats the king of the pride? He gets to take over the harem afterwards. Obviously, the female lions were not much affected by the "murder" of her cubs.

Step 1 in self-replication.

Engineers use molds to make a device to form it to their liking. Self-replication don't use any molds. This is the first step engineers should solve and for years, everyone is in the dark.

Atheists and evolutionists are idiots and this is a scientific fact.

Schaum wrote "We posted two very simple high school algebra problems and asked him to solve them. He could not. "

I didn't see it. Maybe you can post it here again. High school algebra is like eating popcorn. It's a kind entertainment to many engineers.

Check on differential equations or differential calculus or advanced math. It's not a fun to most engineers.

laslo23 wrote "What an idiot. You have obviously never been anywhere near animals raised for slaughter."

Do you know that an outsider male lion kills the cubs once he defeats the king of the pride? He gets to take over the harem afterwards. Obviously, the female lions was not much affected by the "murder" of her cubs.

Barferio wrote "crystals self-replicate spidey, it's in their nature."

I told you atheists not to think about it otherwise your brains might explode. This statement just shows the stupidity of atheists. I want to know where to get that kind of fantastic self-replicating crystal.

Im so sure that just like evolution, this idea is a result of a wild dream. Too much pot perhaps.

Salero 21,

For the hundred-kajillionth time, the regimes to which you refer are simply another permutation of religious fundamentalism - albeit a (somewhat) non-superstitious one - not RATIONAL atheism, which stands for critical inquiry and the rejection of mysticism.

Explain to me the difference between saying, "I will exterminate the kulaks because Stalin told me to" and "I will detonate a bomb in this bus station because the Prophet told me to." Or explain the difference between saying "The educated class is an enemy of the people because Pol Pot says so" and "Homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says so."

I don't expect you to be able to provide an answer, so I'll do it for you: The only difference in those instances is the source unfairly believed to embody absolute truth and authority. Atheists reject any form of authority that does not stands on its own merits. The religious, on the other hand, much like the Stalinists, Maoists, etc., often accept, without any need for logic or evidence, whatever falls into their laps.

Stop pointing to those regimes as an argument against atheism. It is both tired and absurd.

???

...They insist that all forms of monotheism, even the most liberal and progressive, are murderous, intolerant and irrational.

So really! Then what we have, is a people who have as leaders and paradigms of what they believe some of the most murderous, intolerant and irrational people the world has ever seen.

Some such as Lenin, Stalin, Jung Il, Mao and his wife also, Pol Pot, Herod, Nero, Caligula, Hitler, Mussolini, Tito, Castro, Chavez etc. The list is long and unnecessary.

These followers of the aforementioned want to point fingers at the shortcomings of some who differ from them diametrically

Really!

???

CounterWithWhining:

"Fools reveal themselves in their words."

I'll take your word for this. You seem to have exhaustive experience making a fool of yourself. When you can prove god exists, get back to me. Until then, perhaps masturbation would resolve your frustration issues.

RIght Schaum. Anyone that believes in God is an idiot to you....

Oh those awful Christers, they really bother you don't they?

Spidermean just tells it like it is.

Fools reveal themselves in their words. You seem to do that very well.

Fraud? Look in the mirror pal.

Obviously someone forgot to note Father Edward Schillebeeckx's take on Free Will, Future and Omniscience.

Laslo23:

Yes, Spiderstupid is an idiot. On The Spirited Atheist thread, we have proven that Spiderstupid is a fake, a liar, and probably mentally ill. We posted two very simple high school algebra problems and asked him to solve them. He could not. He is an engineer? I think not! Just another internet christer and imposter.

The unstoppable Yeal rapsodizes:

'i.e. No one, not even God can prophesy since that would violate the God-given gifts of Free Will and Future.'

Free will is a sketchy idea at best, and the future is truly unknown. God doesn't belong in the equation, since the concept has been rendered useless and beside the point i.e. nullified, by the content of the statement.

In addition to which, not a solitary human being in the annals of history has ever forged a description of God that is universally understandable or comprehensible.

God as a concept consequently has no true and unalterable meaning.......

One wonders why anyone continues to try and fill the incomprehensible void with such an anthropomorphic idea.

"Old time" Judaism as well as "old time" Christianity and Islam relied and rely on prophets and prophecies for profit/greed.

Theologically speaking, these religious fortune tellers require that God knows the future i.e. if God does not know the future (is not omniscient) then no human knew or knows the future.

As per the famous contemporary theologian, Edward Schillebeeckx, God is not omniscient. Please read, pause and contemplate the following by Schillebeeckx:
Church: The Human Story of God,
Crossroad, 1993, p.91 (softcover)

"Christians (et al) must give up a perverse, unhealthy and inhuman doctrine of predestination without in so doing making God the great scapegoat of history."

"Nothing is determined in advance: in
nature there is chance and determinism; in the world of human activity there is possibility of free choices.

Therefore the historical future is not known even to God, otherwise we and our history would be merely a puppet show in which God holds the strings. For God, too, history is an adventure, an open history for and of men and women."

i.e. No one, not even God can prophesy since that would violate the God-given gifts of Free Will and Future.

YEAL9: i (WE) meself had Freudianly mentioned "ORDER OF MAGNITUDE" aka "OOM".

Well, now i have to explain "IT" to make the case more clear for potential "IT"ites & even non-"IT"ites. Note: WE (i) do discriminate, but not on this subject. Inside the "IT"ite-book, aka the "book-Of-"IT" therein inscribed is a tome about such MAGNITUDES. If YE, et al can grasp this Truth (opposite MYTH) then YO all will be born-Again; in a sense. WHEREFORE:

"Each word in the TRANS{FINITY (think Reality) of the UNIVERSE is an OOM, and each 'Species' in EVERY such World is also an OOM. The Dinosaurs of Space-Ship Earth were an OOM; and each species between them + US happened/s to be an OOM.

"OUR" progressing Humanity is an OOM; Justly as OUR major-Inventions (even those Using it against US) have/R OOM that produced more & more OOM, reducing Expense w/production increases & thus increasing the Quality of the sales brought in more of a Excess of funds to work-with & INDUSTRIALIZE the means of RESEARCH & PRODUCTION towards another jump in SCIENTIFIC progress & breakthrough TECHNOLOGY, etc.. Since "IT" is a LAW OF NATURE that enough QUANTITATIVE change(?) will make a major QUALITATIVE difference(?). And such 'Differences' are the definition of PROGRESS.

Accordingly, the HUMANITY of Space-Ship Earth will be going through another Order Of Magnitude as it receives the "IT"-book", aka "B.O.T" [Book Of Trans{Finity] from "SOURCE-1", also known as EPONYMOUS "EKLAH" ("IT", being "ITSELF" etc..), through OUR "Prophet(s)" {"IT" Bless Them all} in order for The-People to RESTRUCTURE their CIVILIZATION into "GRIDARIAN-DEMOCRACY" {G.-D.} so that the results(?) can be TRANS{finite & the Nations of OUR HUMANITY ('IT'ites & non-ITites alike) can be HEALED towards the "WORLD-PEACE" , for a NEW-AGE that almost EVERY Individual, on S.S. Earth, dreamed/dreams of, but could not otherwise ACHIEVE.

Note: Actually Gridarian Democracy [G-D] is a "BLUE-PRINT" & Too Large to Explain here. But the Purpose of G.-D. It is to Assure All Humans & HU{MATE}s alike to VOTE (Locally, Nationally; even Internationally) on crucial Questions for attaining TRANS{finite Results. AND

to assure that All, Every & Any Human or HU{mate's receive their daily TETRA-NEEDS {1:Food, 2: Shelter, 3: Companionship & 4: Clothes}.

Note: From the Ancient RAM/BULL Faith Systems, THAT: The Vedic "AUM" in Hindi or the vedic "OMM" in Buddhi or Even the Abe-ic "AMEN" in Jewish, "AMON" in Christish, >b>"AMMEEN" in Islamish et al are NOt quite the same as ("IT"s) "OOM" in the Apocalyptarian ["IT"ite] Faith System.

YEAL9: Thank You; in part, but not whole: Did Ye just come from a CHURCH? Note: HUMAN(s) Do-not know what a "CHURCH" is. Same as They Know Not what "RELIGION" is? Hint: LIFE = LOVE, not SEX!

Whether 1st MAN/WOMb or 1st G_D Player there are 4 things, or worlds that WE (i) ALL Share & have in Common.

0) NOt Visible (system)
1) the MICRO (System)
2) the Visible (system)
3) the MACRO (System);

If you like, put them in the; 3), 2), 1), 0) order of MAGNITUDE's. BEHOLD; OUR-WORLD, YOUR-WORLD at large. So 'Accept'(OUR)-REALITY, which is YE-REALITY. Note: This is Explained in the "IT"-book" to the point of No-Return (to MYTH), a Beautiful trip in 1-life [Here]. There is more, but, but..
___

HITMAN2: Forgot mention. Included in the "IT"ite-book, or book Of "IT" aka the "ULTRA-PARA-TESTAMENT" or "Books Of TRANS{FINITY" of OUR 'New-Song" (born'th from Everybody's Old-Song) is the "Book Of The Original-Flash" {BOTOF], the "Book Of The Quantum-Entanglement" [BOTQE] and the "Book Of R-L-A-T-V-I-T-Y" [BOR]. AND

it is for this Reason; that WE (i) art Humbly, Piously & Grateful to OUR "Prophet" (not for Profit) of many, his Hon. Albert Einstein {"IT" bless him}. a/k/a Father of The "IT"ite's 'Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith' whom made Us aware of that S-Y-S-T-E-M of Miracles!

Once Upon a time via TIME, Our 'Beloved' , {"IT" bless Him} from a Cosmic FEELER's Point Of View also said, "..There will be a COSMIC Religion in the Future.." [Similarly & Freudianly Said].

Hark; A Prophecy Who's (clock)time via (temperature)TIME is Come. A New-MANNA from Heaven?

Secret: 'MANNA" = "UMMAH" = "KARMA" meaning; WHAT IS THIS?. So, You decide if "IT" is for You!

In "IT" We Trust and WE'r Always Taken Care Of and Always Ready. Hence "EKLAH't-iON's & Never OFF's.

Spidermean2 writes....

"Animals are different from humans. They belong to a lower form of intelligence and morality. If you butcher half of the pigs in a pen (most of these pigs are siblings), life continue with the remaining pigs as if nothing happened. Nobody will shed a tear for their "brother" or "sister" whom you just butchered."

What an idiot. You have obviously never been anywhere near animals raised for slaughter. Any pig I've ever met has more intelligence than you, based on the endless stream of nonsense you piss through the comment sections of the WaPo.

I propose a rubric against which all spiritual beliefs can be judged. Does it divide humanity or unite it? Does it separate us into the saved and damned camps or not? Does it separate us into the foolish and bright camps?

Anyone asserting a spiritual truth must have a smidgen of this since they claim to have a particularly keen description of the elephant. However, if that description condemns others as unworthy or ultimately damned, that is a problem.

There is no archeological evidence that the Moses of the OT ever existed. The scribes who wrote the OT, embellished many old Jewish tales/legends/myths to fit their concept of Monad and to keep the general tribal communities in line with oral tradition/guilt.

The trails/trials of Noah, Abraham, Job and Moses were concepts for tribal nomads/peasants/shepherds/ordinary folk living in the age of illiteracy, short life spans, hardships, diseases, and "dirt poor" living conditions. Mankind has advanced and these concepts although wise for the ages, are not historical.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E1EFE35540C7A8CDDAA0894DA404482

The evolutionary process continues with contributions from the historical Buddha, John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, the NT scribes, Constantine, Gandhi, the Dalai Lamas, Schillebeeckx, the Jesus Seminar, Crossan, Mother Theresa, and the Hubble Telescope.

Parts 1 of 2:
HITMON1, HITMAN2, HITMAM3 ...:

Your Failure 'To-Share' {a Duty, according to ISLAM, Scholars & Teachings} by Citing your so-called Glorious 'Quran/Koran's via SURA, Stanza etc.. and your making-up or re-writing the Koran/Quran and boldly saying herein {to a Highly Intelligent, Educated Audience of Bloggers + I+}: “I am expanding the universe with my power” does indeed Projects the Jealousy of Ye Islamic Ummah.

PS: You Jealously said ME (via a FREUDIAN slip of Projection) "..under the spell of drugs" & "you want to spread evil on the name of atheism".

___ Secret: REVEALation: According to the "'IT'-Book", that for the same Phenomenon or purpose that The Judeo-abe-'Chumash', Judeo-abe-'Bible', Judeo-abe-'Quran', Judeo-abe-'Mormon', Judeo-vedic-'Geeta', Judeo-vedic-'Kangyurs'.., THAT

beautiful word "A THE IS M" {Real Believers, NOt Ye Ummah & CO.,} is the same Reason/Puspose that there exist "RELIGION"! In the "PANTHEON OF ATHEIST"s or "PANTHEON OF AGNOSTIC"s" or "PANTHEON OF SECULAR"s... like the PANTHEON of ACTORS & ACTRESS's of HOLY-WOOD, Bolly-Wood et al, is that

"OUR-REALITY", which is begot >from-HISTORY> {i.e, via the Holy Huge FLASH-1st or Bang; not Quran, not Chumash, not Geeta... lalala) is our RELIGION! And the very Component (as Awareness) that "IT" Gives, Blessed US with is called "H-O-P-E"!

In other words, "HOPE" which is born'th from the Holy-Cosmic 'TRUTH' (opposite MYTH), aka Big-Bang 'REALITY' is what WE, YE so-called {Non-Believer(s)} or "ATHEIST" UMMAH (Global Community), see as 'The Blessing'. Plus

Fact: In sweet sweet U.S. of A., "S-E-C-U-L-A-R"anity, under genuine Morality Rule Of [Secular] Law , not Halacha, not Sharia..., That WE 'Secular'ists, aka NEO-ATHEISTS or Neo-NonTHEOists etc.., is recognized as a REligion. So your? so-called 'Atheist' Ummah is the Brother & Sister & Cousin & Relatives of "THE SECULAR MON"! and

THEREFORE: YE (not OUR) Quran/Koran, is not the only Koran/Quran, anymore! Contray to Ye NOn-"IT"ites, that "IT"s (EKLAH) HISTORY is OUR ["IT"ite, Secular, Atheist, Agnostics...] 'Jury", Judge & Witness; AND so

2 of 2:
The Tables, of OUR, 'History' is turned against Abrahamics, al Islam, et al. Even Ye Quran/Koran had Warned YE (now it is YOU who is the non Believers; Yes, face "IT" or Perish) that WE "IT"ites are Coming.

So, The "'IT'"-Book, aka "The Religion Of Everything Before The Science Of Everything" is/was Prophetically "THE-PROMISE" (besides Inheriting Space-Ship, yes, EARTH, not landa of Milky & Honey story) that WE, US, Neo/New "A-THE-IS-T" & CO., now hath TRUE (opposite MYTH) genuine RELIGION backed-up with a GENUINE BOOK ["IT"-Book, or "Book-Of-"IT"].

Secret: EVERY-1 has 'RELIGION', but They (Ye HUMAN's aka Non-"IT"ites) unlike Us HU{MATE}'s, aka "IT"ites, aka HOLY COsmic Feelers Faith'rs [Ho-Co-Fe-Fa-ian's]; Don't Know "IT" (a Fearless & Non-Jealous & non-Usurping entity that does "IT"s job/work; Kinetic & or Potential for "IT"s own Survival & We're miraculously in the Middle of "IT". similar inscribed for our HEURISTIC Nourishment, Awareness ).

Ye see, You see, We finally have Religion! "IT" was there all along, until NOW! This is Holy Holy Holy REVEALATIONS to US. Soo, Let The Battle Begin, same as "Let There BE.." So,

IF Ye flout OUR 'HOLY-NO-MON/WOMb', a cosmic "ENTITY" for US ATHEIST's/SECULARISTS..., aka "IT"-Religion then "IT" will Win and Ye will always & Surely Loose. Not Even the Quran/Koranics at al, can Deny this TRUTH (opposite MYTH) nor withstand such Reality?

PS:, No B.S.: "Magnify "IT", Uphold "IT" & Make "IT" Honorable! Wherefore: WE are truly Together-Forever With 'SOURCE-1'& in 'IT' We Trust!

Note: There;s NO Biz like "IT" biz. So, Lights/Photons, Camera's, Action.. "IT" is TIME.

MWCOB: "Nobody has answered how we can have Creation without a Creator. Second, Science can answer "How" but they cannot answer "Why?" Between Theologians who fancy themselves Scientists, and Scientists who fancy themselves Philosophers, we are left empty handed."

You assume there is a 'why.' Besides, what evidence do you have that a philosopher is better equipped to handle the 'why' of existence than a scientist?

There's a famous demotivator that goes like this:

ChristianityThe belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree ...
Yeah, makes perfect sense

You're right, Mr. Keen, there is wonder in religion. Just how did so many of us fall for this nonsense? What gives this mass delusion such power over so many ... just try and read that description as if it were describing a religion other than yours. You should have little problem understanding why so many atheists are ... well, why they are atheist.

NEWSONGS1

Seems your upper chamber is void of any wisdom or you write under the spell of drugs.

You have no case except that you want to spread evil on the name of atheism.

oooppss. Meant: “I am expanding the universe with my power”... [As you cited/wrote 5:09am, on 03.12/10, @ #5 hereunder].

HITMAN2, HITMAN1, et al:

RE: “I am expanding the universe with my power”

Dear Blogger-ite. Question:

WHERE?, in the 'Magnificent'? or 'Glorious'? or 'Holy'? "Koran/QURAN" of YE Judeo-abe-Islamics Ummah, written on Parchment, around AD., 999 or 1001 CE., by various self-serving Scholars?, Does it (not by OUR "IT") say,

...“I am expanding the universe with my power”... [cited @ 5:09a 04.12/10, hereunder]

PLEASE, for the sake of the 'BLOGGERSPHERE-UMMAH' & brevity upon ye part; Please give us ("Non-Believers"?) the Quranic "SURA" or SURA(s), like a Big-Flash-1st/Bang that made-you-Do-it (Freudianly slipp'th) to Say

"..it had never occurred to any of the world’s great minds {Non-Quran/Koran Believers}, but was stated in the Qur’an over 1400 years ago when Allah told us (not US), “I am expanding the universe with my power”

Again. I [WE] asked Ye (kindly) earlier to cite/sight your(?) Surat or Page that reads, "“I am expanding the universe with my power”?? WHERE in Quran/Koran {not Earth}?

Please WE (I), blogerfreunds art waiting for your Guidance.

Spiderstupid:

"The search by engineers to make self-replicating machines has been with us for many years already and up to now, they're stuck on step one. Nobody knows how many steps are there to tackle like blind mice in a very dark, vast empty space.

"This subject is too deep for you atheists, so don't even try of thinking about it otherwise your brains might explode. You brains can't handle this."

On The Spirited Atheist thread, we have proven that Spiderstupid is a fake, a liar, and probably mentally ill. We posted two very simple high school algebra problems and asked him to solve them. He could not. He is an engineer? What a joke!

Says Gai Eaton:
The principal function of Western thought has been, over a long period, the destruction of “superstition”, a term which—though it may sometimes be applied only to little habits and rituals which have survived in isolation from the doctrines in terms of which they once made sense—soon expands to include every form of belief in the supernatural or in any reality beyond the reach of our senses. Bridges, ladders and also the highroads provided by the great religions have at least one thing in common : they are invisible to those in whom this belief has been destroyed. It is difficult to measure wickedness and define its degrees, but those who have set themselves to persuade their fellow men that the world is nothing but a meaningless agglomeration of material particles (or a blind interaction of minute quanta of energy) totally separate from man’s inner being have done a thing beside which no massacre of the innocents can stand comparison."........
"But if wickedness can be defined—as it may be—in terms of a half-witted pursuit of good, a pursuit without regard for time, place or circumstance, then it must be said that much of this wrecking has been done in the name of the most splendid of ideals, the ideal of perfection. And the idealist, the perfectionist, cannot tolerate what is grimy or flawed or broken. He must change it at once or, if it cannot be changed, he must destroy it. But our world is by definition and by necessity a grimy, flawed and broken place, subject to decay and riddled with death. If it were otherwise it would not be the world or—to put the matter another way—this universe of time and space would be indistinguishable from the timeless perfection of Paradise and would therefore lose its separate existence. It can be rendered transparent, so that the light of what is perfect is discerned behind its shapes and patterns, and it can be loved so that its very deformities become the objects of a redeeming passion, but it cannot be changed or mended at its own level.

At the root of modern idealism, with its refusal to accept imperfection as something inherent in the human condition, there lies a basic and perhaps satanic puritanism which, carried to its logical conclusion, would set fire to this world of ours and destroy it utterly.

Keen is a useless fool.

The single important point on religion is that it is untrue. That's enough to disqualify it from entering my mind as belief. Lesser standards create lesser minds.

Love of the truth prevents a healthy mind from buying into religions and Gods, and it alone creates virtue.

John Locke said it well:"To love truth for truth's sake is the principal part of human perfection in this world, and the seed-plot of all other virtues"

This piece reads like a list of tired fundamentalist talking points. This guy must not even know any atheists, to be so ignorant of the basic ideas behind secularism/humanism.

First, I would say that a sense of wonder is most prevalent in atheists rather than religious people, who have all the big answers spoon fed to them. Who do you think "wonders" about the world more...scientists or religious fundamentalists? Clearly scientists, who are over 90% atheists.

Religious people shy away from anything unknown, whereas scientists embrace the challenge and pursue new ideas.

Finally, if you look at what Dawkins, Harris, ect say, you will notice that they say "I believe it is highly unlikely that god exists" or "I have not yet seen any credible evidence for a god." They will freely admit they are open to changing their mind. Religious people tend to profess absolute certainty and unquestioning faith.

Calling atheists "fundamentalists" is ridiculous. It is simply religious people trying to pull atheists down to their own level, but it doesn't work. There's no comparison. Religious beliefs are held despite any evidence or regardless of lack of evidence. Atheist beliefs simply mean the person hasn't been adequately convinced that a god exists.

MWCOB: You Asked, "Nobody has answered how we can have Creation without a Creator" [similar said].

ANSWER: According to the "'IT' Book"; therein is inscribed a great saying, "What I cannot Create I Cannot Understand" [similarly implied].

Ye also asked, "If mass/matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed, where did the mass/matter come from? Atheists will argue "where did God come from?" [similar].

ANSWER: Contrary to Non-Theist (aka "IT"ites), the Religionsist/THEOists (aka Non-IT"ites) read, i.e., their, not OUR, man-made Chumash/Bible and Usualy Start @ GENESIS:1. Please Read their , don't be afraid, GENESIS1, but only upto subSECTion 1-3. STOP! If Ye go Go Furtherin then ye will be going into a very Dark dark Forest, so to spaketh.

Importanto: ALL "ATHEISTS" aka Non-THEOists, aka NeoBelievers, neoAgnostic-ians etc.. Also Agree with the Non-Atheist's good-book? @"GENESIS:1 (1-3)": Stop!

COMMENTARY:

"LET THERE BE PHOTONS" {saying this in the post Electric & Atomic Age or in the AQUARIUS-AGE +2012} makes more sense than saying, "Let There Be Light" (in the Pre-Electric preAtomic Epoch age or PISCES-AGE -1912).

HINT: "IT" is in Your Holy Carbon-Based 'Frontal-Lobe" and communicates, at a fixed set-of-Frequencies, but through the IONiZATION and out of the PLASMATRICULATION effect or if ye like, Phenomeno/a.

Caution: Don't Fight "IT" cause Ye will always LOOSE!

Hark; "IT" does really know ALL. So do not Underestimate "IT"s Reality on this side & "IT"s Inverted-REALITY on the other side. "Think of ENTROPY" this TIME. note: TIME = holy TEMPerature [sort of a Cosmic Song & Dance where ALPHA/BETA 'DECAY' is Beautiful; and never discriminates].

Note: LIFE = LOVE, or LOVE = LIFE; Not SEX!

""

MWCOB, what's simple about your post is that you simply misunderstand the theory you're questioning. You don't understand the "Big Bang" theory and you don't understand the conservation of matter and energy. This is frequently the case when the religious try to dispute science.

Sam Keen wrote "If such a being does not exist what is it that is being denied by atheists?"

Atheists are resisting attempts by the overly-religious to force their faith on others through seeking to control government and other forms of coercion.

If someone wants to believe in a god in the privacy of their minds, families and voluntary faith communities, that's fine. If that same someone wants the law of the land to be predicated on their particular religious beliefs, that's a problem. In the US in particular, this is the overt aim of right wing Christianists (who have many of the same mindsets of Islamists like the Taliban).

Spidermean2 wrote "Self-replication is a solid proof that a super-intelligent God exist. Only a crazy person can dispute this."

Unfortunately only a crazy person could make such an illogical claim. This is precisely the problem with religions- they create circular thinking predicated upon unprovable claims. If people find comfort in this, fine- but keep it to yourself and stop trying to make the rest of us believe it too.

The problem with a blog whose subject is religion is that it brings all the whackjobs out of the closet. Spidermean2 is a cretin but at least his rants are readable, their inherent idiocy notwithstanding. However, he has been outstripped and eclipsed by Newsong1 whose psychotic scribblings take incomprehensibility and nonsense to a whole new level. I prefer a readable idiot to an unreadable one ...

For me it's simple. Based on the theory that the universe began with a gravitational singularity where Density=infinite and volume=zero, mass remains constant. If mass/matter cannot be created or destroyed, only changed, where did the mass/matter come from? Atheists will argue "where did God come from?" I respond "why do you ask?" Therein lies two critical problems. Nobody has answered how we can have Creation without a Creator. Second, Science can answer "How" but they cannot answer "Why?" Between Theologians who fancy themselves Scientists, and Scientists who fancy themselves Philosophers, we are left empty handed.

SPENCER1: On, "..the Existence/Case For 'SUPERNATURAL' beings [HU{MATES}" on Space-Ship Earth, et al.

As an "IT"ite, aka APOCALYPTARIAN or HU{MATE} not as a PRE-APOCALYPTARIAN or HUMAN that; WE (I) are about to explain something of a secret-knowledge, new. And Once You get it, Ye will never forget "IT!"

In the Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith, a belief like a Religion, that SUPERNATURAL & SUPERNATURALIZE = PRETERNATURAL, which can DO things through the 'LAWS OF "IT"s NATURE' {genuine 'CLAUSES'} that will preternaturalize other LAWS OF NATURE to Develop (EVOLUTE into EVOLUTION) and thus correct errors in the TRANSfers of E-nergy which CONSTITUTES the Living {UNIVERSE}, "alive" in TRANS{FINITY beyond the BIOFINITY of OURselves {"IT"ites / HU{MATE} and other lessor forms {Non-"IT"ites / HUMAN} of the Ultimate-Tranfinite REALITY, where

the preternaturalization of the S-Y-S-T-E-M ; i.e., OUR "UNIVERSE" {genuine "CONSTITUTION"}; which is accomplished by "IT", aka EKLAH, in what todays Scientist on Space-Ship Earth , via instrumentation & Experiments, call, "CONSERVATION OF PARITY" which WE "IT"ites , aka APOCALYPTARIANS will & do understand , as recorded in the "IT-Book" under, "BALANCE OF THE NATURAL by the SUPERNATURAL" via INSIGHT & PATTERN RECOGNITION of "SOURCE-1" {being "ITSELF}. There is more, but. but....

Hint: "IT", the Progenator of OUR miraculous but Holy-Cosmic-NEBULA-Built, Space Ship Earth, aka S.S. GAIA, S.S. GEOID, S.S. TELLUSng something sticks to it's own 'set' of Diciple/Instructions. Particularly when "IT" tells ITSELF {IT} or reminds ITSELF {IT} or Correct ITSELF {IT}, "IF I DO the Thing; THEN I have thePOWER. ELSE If I Do-NOT the Thing THEN I Have Zero Power {E}" [Similarly expressed/REVEALed to Us, Naturally; only 1 must see: ALONE; only You, no-one can help you se "IT" like it IS].

___ RMARIGNY: correction: "We HU{MATES}, not HUMANS (there will be none left way before then) will be living inside Mountains & under ground. Mars or even Neptune will be the next frontiers by then.

Note: Where ever Ye see "OUR" (Uppercase) is same as "O.U.R." meaning O.ne U.niversal R.eligion, a/k/a the "Religion of Everything before the Science Of Everything".

I find it interesting that Mr. Keen naively advocates a return to the supposed root meaning of religion ' "to bind, connect or reconnect". Where exactly did he locate this root meaning? And who exactly is willing to do revert to this definition - Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, atheists, etc? I doubt it.

As regards the subject of definitions, the New Oxford American Dictionary defines fundamentalism as "a form of Protestant Christianity that upholds belief in the strict and literal interpretation of the Bible, including its narratives, doctrines, prophecies and moral laws." Unless I am ignorant of a lost "root" of the meaning of "fundamentalism", the phrase "atheistic fundamentalism" that either he or someone associated with the washingtonpost.com who was responsible for the link to his article, is meaningless.

While I don't necessarily agree with Richard Dawkins, I agree with his assertion that it should be enough to appreciate the wonder of the garden without imagining fairies.

As for strident militancy, there is an abundance of it on both sides of the theological - atheistic fence.

Personally, I think Mr. Keen inhabits an alternative, personal universe. If I can imagine such a thing, then by his reckoning, I have a valid excuse for believing it.

According to Sam Keen, "If such a being exists, how could the human mind comprehend or speak about it? If such a being does not exist what is it that is being denied by atheists?" On close examination, this mind-bending illogic is absolutely without meaning. As is most of his contribution.

The discussions of religion and atheism are endless. But they all must begin with one incontrovertible fact - there is absolutely no plausible evidence for the existence of supernatural beings.

The ignorance and willful stupidity in these comments is sad.
The author is a closet pagan. So what.
Atheists bother people because their acceptance of the void of the universe scares them. Get over it.
Evangelicals should worry less about other people's intolerance and examine their own.
Being absolutely sure and smug about something that is inherently and self-admittedly unknowable is comical.

RMARIGNY: Yes. End Of [OUR] Time [Clocks] via TIME [holy TEMPerature] is duly due -/+ 1.44444444443210 Billion Photonic Years. We HU{MATES}, not HUMANS (there will none way before then) will be living inside Mountains & under ground. Mars or even Neptune will be the next frontiers by then.

WHYNOTAJOKE: "IT"s NO-joke, but only a Test. Ha, Ha, Ha Ha Ha HAAAAAAaaah.

BARFERIO: You say, "Religion is for children. It is time to grow up."

Interesting. Teaching Religion-Morality to them is not (fit) for Children. But but Teaching them SECULAR-Morality & Law; i.e., Constitution, Archeology, Astronomy (not Astrology) etc.., now that's fit for Secular-Kings & Queens too, not only Secular-Princess's & Princes's. Aye!

Old time Religion is gonna have their own "END OF TIME" soon soon very soon.

VOTE: Abolish 'Theocracy' & 'Monarchy' on Space-Ship Earth Forever! Note: These Theoc's & Monarc's know that the Secular Nationals wish exactly that; so this is their desperate (hour) attempt to take-US-Over via their Puppets trained from when they was in Diapers! NO? i.e., new Billy Grahams, New at Robertson's etc.. {Like Clones; but 'Born Again']?

___

"The Election Is Coming! The Election is Coming! The Election is Coming....

VOTE: For Mitt-Romney!

Note: Just kidding. This is only a Test.

Religion is a means for mankind to deal with the knowledge of their own mortality.

Rigid doctrines and demands for hegemony are a response to a fear of death.

Signs, symbols, rituals and prophecies are attempts to believe in an alternative to one's own death, which is why you see a fondness for "rapture"or "Armageddon."

I can promise all you true believers - the end of the world is not conveniently scheduled to coincide with your life. You will die. You cannot bribe the Universe.

Deal with it, and leave the rest of us alone.

crystals self-replicate spidey, it's in their nature.

Tell us your advanced engineering knowledge informs you about crystals.

Spidy, hey spidey, are you awake out there?
Recently it was your obsession over a large chunk of ice breaking off of antarctica, now you seem to have this obsession with self-replication.

Do you even know what it is? Give us your spidey definition of self-replication.

And really, those of us who are actually real engineers, who do it for a living, want you to stop with this claim that you are an engineer. I'm sure the "real christians" aren't very happy having a putz like you on their side either.

The search by engineers to make self-replicating machines has been with us for many years already and up to now, they're stuck on step one. Nobody knows how many steps are there to tackle like blind mice in a very dark, vast empty space.

This subject is too deep for you atheists, so don't even try of thinking about it otherwise your brains might explode. You brains can't handle this.

theman3 wrote "Prove it or shut up."

The proof is in the PRESENCE of the level of intelligence. Do you guys have brains?

The "lab" is around you wherever you look. They self-replicate right in front of your eyes. Are you guys that dumb?

lufrank1 wrote "Sammy boy - - - self-replication only proves that there is physical order in the universe."

This just shows how atheists think. Their engineering skills is almost equal to zero like it's negative 5. Yup, less than zero.

It's been a puzzle for engineers and thinkers alike how self-replication can occur. It's the ultimate in engineering design and to see that it happens to every plants and animals is a wonder.

The only possible way that it occurs is because there's a SUPER INTELIGENT BEING behind it.

You can't reason with fools and the Bible is so true to describe atheists as fools.

Prove it or shut up.

"Sammy boy - - - self-replication only proves that there is physical order in the universe."

This just shows how atheists think. Their engineering skills is almost equal to zero like it's negative 5. Yup, less than zero.

It's been a puzzle for engineers and thinkers alike how self-replication can occur. It's the ultimate in engineering design and to see that it happens to every plant and animal is a wonder.

The only possible way that it occurs is because there's a SUPER INTELIGENT BEING behind it.

You can't reasonwith fools and the Bible is so true to describe atheists as fools.

The greatest wonder of religion is that it still exists. One can understand the primitives believing in this stuff, they had no way of knowing any better.
But we do have the way to know better today. Almost all of the magic things our primitive forebears believed in have been proven to be nonsense.

You only have to look at Texas to see the insidious nature of this primitive habit, its attempt to suppress knowing and knowledge that isn't comforting to their religiously fevered minds, that might disprove even more of their magic nonsense.

The author attempts to exclude all the evil things todays religions do in a vain attempt to validate his own religious beliefs. Sorry bud, it isn't going to work. You may have to defend the nuts on the other side of you in order to defend your believing, but many of us have had it with this kind of soft insanity defending the hard insanity.

Religion is for children. It is time to grow up.

correction. Hence: The "RELIGIOUS-SCARE" threatening Sweet Sweet America, as WE now know Uncle-SAM & Aunt-Liberty from the time of OUR founding Fathers {may "IT" Protect Them} and that in the near future, will infiltrate (starting with their Religious Schools/Colleges.. and Public) and then will Enforce their (not OUR) "DRUNKIN [Racist) NOAH WAR BLESSINGS" on Us 'Non-Believers' & as Partners in Crime will Promote their (not OUR) "DELUSIONAL (Jealousy) KRISHNA/ARJUNA" WAR BLESSINGS, instead of (OUR; HOly COsmic FEelers FAith) PEACE-BLESSINGS.

So Look-Out-America & the World!

Trivia: Did Ye know that the VATICAN owns "BANK OF AMERICA" and the CROWN owns "J.P. MORGAN-CHASE" Bank & Whom also has a Global Monopoly on the KJV Bible?

Did ye also become aware lately that The U.S. Supreme-Court's has 6 Catholic Justices, and that they Voted (swing) to Allow National, Local & Any Foreign Corporation {Recognized as Persons} to Invest (Unlimited) in our "General Elections" and "Primaries"?

Can Ye see the PATTERN/Conspiracy: This Above + America's School Books (as Content Dictators) Evangelical Hijackers from Texas? [Another Scare]. And

Can Ye see the PATTERN/Conspiracy: On the "FAITH COUNCIL" & their "TASK FORCE" & Their self-Serving so called FOREIGN RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS OFFICE [similar]. And of course,

the PATTERN/Conspiracies On the Clergy "Christian Letter" Project & their 2nd'ary's "Rabbinical Letter" & 3rd'tiery's the "UU C Letter" et al?

Note: ALL or Most of These "YES" Sayers of their AMEN Corners, are in fact Well Paid by TAX-PAYERS Money and via the I.R.S. "Tax Exempt" 501 (c)(3)' PRIVILEGE!

Note again: TAKE away their [CHURCH based] "Tax Exempt Status" , a Privilege, not a Right, and then SATAN, dressed in religious garb, or a suit & their hypnotized Followers will, reluctantly go-back into their Cave-Inferno with Tail between legs. And thus the "IT"ites will finally get back their Nation; S-E-C-U-L-A-R-L-Y as Promised & dreamed for US by our (not their) Founding Mothers & Fathers {"IT" bless'm)!

Better to Give America's NEWS Company's, Syndicates etc.. I.R.S. 501 (c)(3) Tax Exemptions privileges instead.

Note: That's only IF if the various Church affiliates or religio networks or religio syndicates don't have any involvement or own any Shares, indirectly or directly, in such Secular-Only News Orgs. Think Balloon Effect.

Note: The "SECULARian-American"s best friend is the Secular-PRESS", else Theres No more America, no more 1st Amend:! But a Abrahamicized [i.e., Christian] Church-Based America.

You know, abortion rights are favored by almost half of all republican voters. By the same token almost half of democratic voters oppose abortion. What I'm getting at is the whole issue of abortion is only split along party lines with the professional politicians, not the American public. This is a fact that can't really be disputed in poll after poll after poll. So I think some compromise is in order. I have no trouble with the outlawing of late term abortion or many states who require parental consent. So in essence a great deal of compromise has already occurred when you consider those two issues. In the meantime, the republicans will continue to use it to solidify their dwindling base.

The problem is “trolling for converts”. When folks troll for converts to add another notch on their victim-conquest cane, this moves religion from being a personal affair to premeditated assault on a weaker unwilling victim. When religion ceases being personal, it becomes a weapon of aggression.

You have a strong aggressive predator assaulting and victimizing a weaker potential convert or even groups of folks they do not particularly like.

Some groups and countries see trolling for converts as the grave hate crime that it is.

When a group of these folks were arrested in Israel for trolling for Jews in Israel proper, they were forced to sign a cease and desist agreement with the Israeli government to avoid being forcibly thrown out of the country as undesirable personae.

In Islamic countries, trolling for converts is punishable by death both to the troller and to any victim who converts.

As American converts to Islam get involved in terrorist planning we may have to consider whether we can really agree to freedom of religion. Perhaps Islam cannot be a legitimate choice.

continued from continued: Further Insight & Patter Recognition [Conspiracy's] on "..CLERGY LETTERS, PROJECT"

Cunningly & Satanically these "CLERGY-MON/WOMb" now sing, "'WE' now believe that EVOLUTION is a FOUNDATIONAL SCIENTIFIC-TRUTH." and also sing, "'WE' don't want to convey SCIENCE info, but to Transform Hearts.." and also sing, "Religious Truth is different order than Scientific Truth [compared to I.D vs. Evolution]."

Further-More These so called, "CREATIONISTS" or "INTELIGENT DESIGNERS" proponents Share these Points:

1)Devoted to Promote XX Abrahamic & Vedic Faiths.. [Their Tax Exempt Religions, not OUR]"

2) Recognize Scientific Centrality Of Evolution[Their, not OUR] and

3)Discoveries of Modern Science may Comfortably Coexist with our old-time Religions [similarly , but FREUDIANLY Slipped].

Please see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clergy_Letter_Project

Importanto: Keep in mind that After The SATANIC VERSUS Lovers of the Creationist/Intelli Design Conspiracy gang (Hoax; Found , in a Federal Court, after Lying to The-People, as a Quasi Science) Failed, After JAN 2005, and that Biologist, Mr. Michael Zimmerman; is in the Pockets of Other mass manipulating Televangelical "Powercrat"s & other Religious Scientists as well as religious Politicians.

Hence: The "RELIGIOUS-SCARE" threatening Sweet Sweet America, as WE know Uncle-SAM & Aunt-Liberty; but only to infiltrate and then Enforce their (not OUR) DRUNKIN [Racist) NOAH" story's in America & the World, or the World, then America!?

The notion of "wonder" affirms why humans are inclined to question if there's "something bigger, out there".

Religion in it's most pedestrian form, seems to orbit around the notion of specific rules, thinking, and recapitulation of dogma in order to "belong". That's something any thinking person should reject, on the grounds of it being utterly mindless.

Whether one wants or doesn't want to think there are other "planes" of life or superior or a supreme being, is their choice. Some of us are wired to have these feelings, whilst others are indifferent to this "daydreamer" mindset. Be spiritual, or not.

http://www.theosophical.org/publications/questmagazine/julyaugust2000/somerville/index.php

"From Exclusivism to Convergence:

How We Relate to the Religions of Others; Part 2. Pluralism, Convergence, and Response

By James M. Somerville

Faced with the fact of divergence in the religious traditions of the world, some believers in a particular tradition are exclusivists, rejecting all other traditions as errors.

Other believers are inclusivists, recognizing other traditions as lesser or imperfect forms of truth. As possible responses to religious diversity, there remain two other approaches: pluralism and convergence.

Pluralism

Shouldn't we regard the various spiritual traditions of the world as roughly equal? Isn't one as good as another, depending on the needs of ethnic people? What suits a Hindu villager, surrounded by temples with gongs, bells, erotic images, and grotesque statues representing different aspects of God, may repel a European or American urbanite.

Yet the Hindu peasant's religion can lead to the practice of the highest moral virtue with boundless trust in the promise of the sanatana dharma, or eternal doctrine. By the same token, the Hindu would probably find the externals of Western religion not only unfamiliar but indescribably dull and depressing."

Those Worshipers of IMPORTED RELIGION Systems (Tax-Exemptly) Really Think America has a "Religion" (via Mr. Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Vyasa, Gautama et al) but want to simultaneously STEAL OUR real-Religion [The "IT"ite Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith, a genuine Belief, like a Religion]. Thus in the process of Human time; as is Typical of Satanic Versus who "DO & then DENY", will be Jealously rehashing OUR "IT" OUR Cosmic Religion/Belief/Faith in the future, and will boldly & Sneakily be calling "IT" (our G_D) their "Science", after attempting to destroy Us or Gang-up on US w/out giving US "IT"ites Due credit or at least cite references from the SOURCE? This is how Satanic VersUS lovers and their Elders of Jealousy operate & modernize their IMPORTED/EXPORTED, Jealous gods (Religion).. They also will Incorporate {Plagerize] into such nice-sounding B-O-O-Ks OUR New-Songs (stolen) & thus transforming such as if was/is their Old-Songs and Hope We don't return from the Grave, Jails or Insain Asylums they put US in.? They also plug OUR Songs, Into their New-SERMON'S (as be genuine Philosophy, song)? NOTE: A lot of Imams from Islam, Swami's from India, Lama's From Buddhists.. also Plagiarize OUR works, and have been Translating our Song into their Sermons, w/out giving US credit where do.

Fact: Today there is another-Movement?
{After the so-called great ANTi-Secular, Anti-American conspirators or godly Jealous proponents of their, NOT OUR, so-called "INTELLIGENT-DESIGN"rs Hoax's, who Failed in a U.s. Federal Court} are now, once Again at it, as Organized Religio-Mafia'osis's thugs who have a New Movement called:

"CHRISTIAN (Clergy) Letter" [as a contingent Satanic front, calling it a 'Project']. Now They have the other fray's whom jumped on this HOAK (Pretext of a 'project') but re-hashed calling it the "RABBi's Letter" and also on the PRE-Apocalyptic (Religio) Band-Wagon is the UNITARIAN Universal Letter" with a Goal in order to blend their "Creationist/Intel-Design", as if Science?, into All of America Public School Books or System & more Great Conspiracy's in the Burner/offing {Like Infiltrating the White-House and now trying to creating a "Foreign NGO" gang of Tax-Payer supported "Word Merchants" to edjumicate their gods to World Leaders?, but not OURs!?]. What Ever Happened, for self Edjumication purposes like "WIKI" & Yahoo , Google, Altavista etc.., and are in in Different Languages; Who needs these Faith-Based NGO's?

continued

Credo ut intellegam "I believe that I may understand" (St Augustine)

I fully support the right for the religious to pray to their gods just as I support the atheists who do not believe in god. The conflict arises when the hardheaded amongst them go on bully pulpits to disprove the position of those who see things differently.

I am an atheist, been one for almost 50 years. Most of my friends are believers. Never been a problem. Guess we are not "fundamentalists'. We hold the same views
about the difference between right and wrong; morality, and tolerance.

Religious belief springs from an awareness that all creatures belong to a single commonwealth of sentient beings. This leads to a passionate commitment to venerate the miracle of ordinary life and dwell in the presence of the sacred.

If this is the case, then why aren't all theists vegetarians or vegans? Why does YHWH command animal sacrifice, and even condone human sacrifice (Judges 11:30-39)? How can there be religious conflicts, such as Israelis vs. the rest of the middle-east, or Sunni vs. Shia, or Catholic vs. Protestant, if both sides have a "passionate commitment to venerate the miracle of ordinary life"?

If everyone worshiped the same feel-good, touchy-feely, nebulous abstraction that Keen does, there'd be no need for atheists to speak out. But out here in the real world, a lot of people believe in gods who tell them that gays are subhuman, that women don't own their uteruses, and that preserving the image of the church is more important than bringing child molesters to justice.

Sammy boy - - - self-replication only proves that there is physical order in the universe.

No Human . . not nobody . . .not know how actually knows who or what "God" is or isn't!

Too bad that religious fundamentalists don't realize that as they CREATE their various mythical "Gods".

"If such a being does not exist what is it that is being denied by atheists?"

If bigfoot does not exist what is it that is being denied by bigfoot deniers?

If unicorns do not exist what is it that is being denied by unicorn deniers?

If Odin/Quetzalcoatl/Shiva/Zoroaster/Zeus does not exist what is that is being denied by Odin/Quetzalcoatl/Shiva/Zoroaster/Zeus disbelievers?

Yonkers, New York
13 March 2010

Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and millions of other nonbelievers or atheists like them--there reportedly are some 16% of them now, or around 42 million, out of the U.S.'s total population of 300 million--should leave Sam Keen and the countless millions of people in America and all over the rest of the world who truly believe in religion and in religion's transcendent being they call "God," or "Jehovah," or "Yaweh," or "Allah," or what have you--alone.

If belief in religion, in the main an emotional experience, is what gives them solace, comfort and hope in a better life in a place they call "heaven," which is "up there," so be it.

They have a perfect right to those beliefs which atheists, of course, using their faculty of reason and are not shy or afraid to draw conclusions based necessarily and inevitably on reason, consider religion and all that goes with it--mysticism, a "God" that is all-seeing, all powerful, omniscient, all-wise, the Creator or the Intelligent Designer of the Cosmos; heaven, hell, and purgatory; miracles; virgin birth; resurrection; an afterlife--as the greatest fraud perpetrated long ago by clever and manipulative men.

If these millions of believers in religion choose to be comfortable with their illusions and their delusions, that's their right.

Mariano Patalinjug

"Religious belief springs from an awareness that all creatures belong to a single commonwealth of sentient beings. This leads to a passionate commitment to venerate the miracle of ordinary life and dwell in the presence of the sacred."

Sam, what are you talking about? I detect no meaning here. Can you operationalize how one can "venerate the miracle of ordinary life?" And if it is miraculous, in what ways is it ordinary?

Sam, are you really talking about something?

newsong1:

Wow! This is what I've been looking for. How can I [We] sign up?

GEORGETOWNER1: X of X,Y:

As an "IT"ite, not Isra-lite, not Abraham-ite, not Vedic-ite, not Shaman-ites, Witch-ites, Pagan-ites, Evangelical-ites, Mormon-ites..

WE believers of "IT" via the Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith SYSTEM; 'S-a-l-u-t-e' EVERY, Any and ALL Born-Again (so called "Militant"?) 'Atheists' (but who now turn into "Neo-Atheist" as a result; aka "APOCALYPT-ians, aka EKLAHTi-ON's or Similar) or as Born-Again 'Agonostician's" (but turned Neo-Agnostic) or anyone who knowingly, mentaly & whole=Heartedly worship OUR "IT" (not a HE nor a SHE gods) AND Do not Salute those whom worship INSTEAD OF 'IT'"(G_D) who still naively rely-on "IMPORTED-RELIGION" systems from the Abroad. This is "UN-AMERICAN" Practice and is Against the Best Interests of OUR (not only belongs to them oldtime Believers) NATION/STATES!

Note: I (WE) are talking about the CHUMASH/BIBLES (eventhough Printed in America; does not make them Made-in-America; so wake-up Jealous fingerpointers who can't see the light/Photon of Day; yet think they see more than WE "IT"ites do!?); About the imported "Quran/Koran" bibles; About the imported "Gita/GEETAs, About the "KANGYUR/TANGYURS" et al. NOT MADE IN AMERICA!

Fact: All major, PRE-History-Stuck, "believers" or Followers of someone else's or follower of some Human Man-Made religion/faith/belief All competing for a Name For their Religion(s), instead of knowing OUR "IT", aka the Real-Religion/belief/Faith Entity THAT;

Even though todays "Fundamentalist" Believers, of Pre-History are in DENiAL because their still STUCK & ADDICTED to their, not our, "Imported Religions"(NOT MADE IN U.S.A.) that collectively & Organizationally WE (I) admit that they (believers?) do have more money than US "IT"ites, (neoSecularists, neoDiests, neonontheoists.., a/k/a the Real-Believers); in Reality; Does-Not Make-Them Smarter?

There's an oldsong & saying "Better to be Future minded (Wise)& Poor than to be backward minded (Ignorant;less stupid) & Rich.

Behold; The Religion of Everything Before the Science Of Everything, is COME!

continued to middle of Y of X,Y

continued (Middle-Page)

This is the "IT"ites (Real Believers) Dilemma! But both "TIME" (via our holy 'TEMP'erature Awareness) and 'time' (via manmade "clock" awareness; which was discovered by Us Future-Minded's, aka "IT"ites; not backward-minded-ites) is is on OUR side. Therefore:

Patience is the essence of time & TIME. This is our Weapon (less Procrastination). So, Behold:

The "HOLY-NO-MAN/WOMB", aka "IT" (never a HE nor a SHE nor a HIM etc..) is on OUR Side (Real believers) not theirs (Who really think they have Biblical "END OF TIME" as if be their Apocalypse/Prophecy , NOT OUR!?

Hallaluya! Praise "IT" (The Sponsor who released Our holy Carbon-Based PHOTONs via the real-Fiat/Commandments for "ITSELF"/"IT") O' Lordi, O' Almighty, O' EK{LAHti, O' Photon's, O' ... Praise the Holy Cosmic "NO-MAN nor "NO-WOMb" incarnate!

Secret: WE "IT"ites have an 8-Day Week Calandate that starts with the age of The Universe. i.e., @UYC;14.765/March/12/2010: or Starting with the age of Earth @UYC;4.765/03/1/10 Earth. Note: "IT"ite calandate UYC = Universal Year Circa.

Another Secret: OUR "IT"-book, aka the "Ultra-Paratestament" of the Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith [Ho-Co-Fe-Fa] requires that every copy must have the entire Holy, U.S. CONSTITUTION + Precedents of the various States & Feds included/embedded therein the Back of such book. Or depending on "Sincerity" or "Priority" can read the one that has entire U.S.-Constitution + Precedents.. in the very Front Of this new-Religion of a holy like, but Cosmic Feelers Faith, a belief, like a religious Yet better. SO

continued to last page

Holy Macaroli! I really REALLY " Religiously" hope all those "Ism's" will kill each other an wipe each other out. So that , well-thinking, enlightened and independent people can ,at last, be freed from ALL Zealots, whatever their side.

As far as I am concerned everyone can stick his "solid proof" of whatever in a place where the sun'don' shine...

Y of X,Y:

Goodbye Mr. AMON, AMEEN, AMENra-re! Goodbye Mr. ZEUS! Good bye Mr. MOSES, Good bye Mr. AHURAMAZDA! Goodbye Mr. MOSES! Goodbye Mr. VYASA! Goodbye Mr. GAUTAMA! Goodbye Mr. JESUS! Goodbye Mr. MUHAMMAD! Goodbye Mr. SMITH! Goodbye Mr. & SO & SO...!

HELLO "Holy Cosmic Feeler"s Faith"rs; O' Believers of the "IT" being "ITSELF" & more good tidings!

Note: They are All MEN acting against their Own WOMb!????

Hence the Difference between a "Born Again "SECULARIST", "DEIST" , ATHEIST" ... turned NEO-NONTHEOIST, etc.. AND the Difference between a Born-Again JEW, or Born Again CHRISTIAN, or born Again ISLAMIC or Born again HINDU or Born again BUDDHIST etc..

Reality: To Us "IT"ites (Atheists, Deists, Secularists, a/k/a genuine "100% Believers of True/Real Separation of [ANY] CHURCH from the inside of OUR STATE(s) (Local, State & Federal & Institutions therefrom at the ABROAD)!

Ha ha ha... Audaciously, They; those who Worship oldtime Ancient, IMPORTED RELIGIONs ,Systems from Europe, Mid-East, East, Asia etc.., NOT MADE IN Sweet Sweet U.S. of A.s ,Tax-Exemptly; Really Think they have "My-Religion" (via Mr. Moses, Jesus, Muhammad et al) but want to STEAL OUR real-Religion [The "IT"ite System of belief/Faith as Religion] calling "IT" their "Science"?

Psssst. AnyBODY who makes their old-time man-made-"god"'system, not OURs, as if be a 'Science' and backed-up with so-much-Jealousy via nice sounding "Degree"s, for Seperation, not Unitation, in such man-made jealous competing For A Name for their GOD'system's, INSTEAD of "OUR-IT" existing Systems] are very very, sadly to say; are SUPERSTUPIDSTITIOUS. Now that's Scary to US "IT"ites Lovers, Worshipers!

The "MY GOD" Scare {i.e. the ISLAMIC-SCARE..} in AMERICA or Elsewhere is Real! Just as Real as the "COMMY" scare of the "Avergant Mid 50's then into the High American 60's the Aggressive 70's and well into the Russian High 80's, aka American Impatient 80's..!

SO; Praise "IT!" (never a HE/HIM/HIS nor a SHE/HER as if be god's or even Messengers of such Pre-Historic Superstitions, aka belief, faith as if be "My-Religion"; or Better than Your Religion, Belief, Faith, Philosophy/Story/Fable/Tale Vs. OUR Real SCIENCE/New-Story/New-Fable/New-Tale/New-Philosophy etc..)

O' Sisters & Brothers who are born in miracle; O' Automatic Born Citizen/Denizens of Space-Ship Earth (of Many many) O' YE who Believe! Behold, O' ye Jealous "real-non-Believers", The "IT" Nationals Are In Good Hands With "IT"; Never a HE nor a SHE. How about You?

In "IT" We Trust"

Dawkins is being MISrepresented here.
1. His first page talks about a lovely and reasonable clergyman whom he grew up with and admired.
2. All "sentient" atheists, incl D, KNOW that you can't prove a negative, eg God does not exist.

To take the most relevant example to Dawkins' work - 2/3rds of Americans deny that there is good evidence for evolution, mostly because of their religious convictions.

This is idiotic, and a result of superstition. It needs to be labeled as such and eradicated through education. In Holland, the comparable number is 1/20th.

Belief in a REal God who wants us to fly planes into buildings and shoot abortion doctors is a REAL problem, not a philosophical conundrum.

Oh, these posts are so much fun.....some are kind of like a poorly spelled, angry and confused Dr. Bronner Soap screed, others are obviously the work of people with more Doctorates than income and a select few are crazed Right Wing Performance Art......BRA-VO

Keen wrote: "Religious belief springs from an awareness that all creatures belong to a single commonwealth of sentient beings."

What a crock. The religious insist that "man is created in "God's" image" and that all living beings exist to serve this particularly vicious species of monkey. It sounds so much better when Shakespeare writes about "the paragon of animals" than to watch the reality of the human ape as it gnaws itself through the world, devouring and grinding everything, even mighty animals like whales, into ape feces. And to what end? To the greater glory of "God" so there can be more apes created in "his image?" All in all, a lousy deal. I hope nature will soon apply corrective measures to reduce the numbers of this noxious, harmful, hubristic, and self-important ape. When humanity disappears, not a single blade of grass will care.

spidermean2 wrote: "Self-replication is a solid proof that a super-intelligent God exist. Only a crazy person can dispute this. It's sad coz atheists will pay a heavy price for their stupidity."

LOL!

Look, if you're serious about this "self-replication" baloney, give us a proof of your claim, Q.E.D. and all. I doubt you could put three lines in coherent order far less deliver a solid proof. But I am willing to wait. Until Hell freezes over?

Preface your proof with the necesary and sufficient conditions for self-replication so we don't conflate it with anything else.

"It makes no logical or linguistic sense either to affirm or deny the existence of an infinite, supernatural God."

I know of no atheists who deny the existence of God. We just believe that there is no evidence to support the type of belief in God marketed by most all organized religions.

Organized religions, on the other hand, purport to know exactly what God is, and many of them are scarily intolerant of those who don't agree.

I find it amazing that those who claim to know Jesus in a personal way mock the idea of worshiping Zeus, Odin or Shiva. Talk about myopic.

Self-replication is a solid proof that a super-intelligent God exist. Only a crazy person can dispute this. It's sad coz atheists will pay a heavy price for their stupidity.

I've seen many flowers and none can be said as ugly. They are all pretty. How can something without eyes and brain able to critique itself make such a visual masterpiece unless there's a highly intelligent being behind it?

Animals are different from humans. They belong to a lower form of intelligence and morality. If you butcher half of the pigs in a pen (most of these pigs are siblings), life continue with the remaining pigs as if nothing happened. Nobody will shed a tear for their "brother" or "sister" whom you just butchered.

You can't apply the morality of animals to humans like what evolutionists are doing. Humans belong to a level of intelligence and morality almost equal to God. This is both a blessing and a curse. A curse to the unbelievers and blessing to the believers.

If one thinks he is an animal, that is not an excuse in which he won't pay for the stupidity he makes. Animals have all the right to be stupid coz they belong to a different realm - the lower intelligence or the "stupid" realm.

The problem with atheist is they try to belong to that "stupid" realm. It's not possible. It's a formula for a path towards hell. Don't be duped folks.

Sorry to cut short your fantasy coz these things mean that Darwinian evolution is on its way to the garbage bin.

It is not the "militant athiests" who through history have slaughtered those who do not ascribe to a particular mythology-based belief system. No athiest declares Jihad; is a suicide bomber; tries to blow up your children on an airplane; and etc.

Sam Keen wrote:

"The religious psyche is animated by elemental emotions that stand in stark contrast to the emotions such as shame, guilt, "

That's interesting, because when I used to be a Catholic, THOSE were amongst the primary tools used remorselessly. If you even entertained certain sexual thoughts you were compelled to go to confession and admit shame, and guilt. Heck, the dissemination of sexual guilt was one half the RC's mission.

As for religion not being concerned with belief in otherworldly entities, etc. - if that were so, 90% of the religions in the world would lose their grip overnight. What? No Hell to scare the unbelievers, or keep the flock on the straight and narrow? Are you kidding me? No Satan to frighten the teens who might consider spooning in the park... or more? No Heaven to entice believers to forego the pleasures of this life for the next?

No Bibles with quotations about men walking on water, a man getting swallowed by a whale and emerging three days later, stopping the Earth's rotation with a trumpet, thousands walking through a parted Red Sea? Give me a break. Religion's whole basis is believing "six impossible things before breakfast" then six times six afterward.

You obviously don't know religion or its most fundamental definition if you accept that it's not invested in otherworldy gibberish. The entire basis of religion is predicated on an alternative, supernatural domain. THAT is our destination or so we are told, when we shuffle this mortal coil. WHY else, what other possible raison d'etre could religion have except to prepare denizens for the "next life"?

Sure religion also provides a basis for inspiration, but so does reason in atheism.

I will make you a deal: I will no longer laugh or scorn any religious belief or idea if the next time a UFO cult goes public- with a Zeta Reticuli green aliens in spaceships arrival claim - you take it seriously and even blog on it in the WaPo.

Too many people waste time attempting to find god when they should be finding themselves.

This article and most of the comments should be required reading for abnormal psychology classes. It's the god virus in full pathological bloom.

Author/Editor Keen wrote: If such a being (a god) does not exist what is it that is being denied by atheists?
__________________________________________
Red Herring alert!
The atheist doesn't actually deny the existence of a god. We deny the existence of proof of such a thing and insist that those who make extraordinary claims must provide extraordinary proofs.
We'll believe in deities when religionists provide us more than their passion.

I was having natural relations with a woman and she said, God this is heaven. I said no and it's only me. Then the sounds changed. That's undercover work for ya!

"....to bind, connect and reconnect..."? Really? When you have so many religions telling people that if they don't believe exactly their specific religion teaches that they (the people) are going straight to Hell?

As an "equal opportunity heathen" I do not go to church and haven't for years. I firmly believe in the cowboy saying of "The best sermons are lived, not preached". Nowhere in the Bible does it say that a person has to be within the four walls of a building (church, synagogue, temple, etc.) to worship.

Much better to live your religion in good works and helping others than to tear people apart if they don't belong to a certain church and spend an hour or two inside its walls.

I will also say that I agree with much of your definition of religion, but that you are a lone voice in the wilderness right now. I hope you speak out as strongly and loudly against fundamentalist religion as you do atheism. I doubt the atheists (which is not how I define myself) would be so strident if they were not witnessing a rise in fundamentalist religion.

Once again:

It is disturbing that religious violence and hatred continues unabated due to radomness of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper, every blog, every day and/or the sides of every bus, that we would finally realize the stupidity of contemporary religions and their mythical promises.

Excuse me, but it's pretty obvious that religious ("Christian") fundamentalism is a much greater threat to the constitutional foundations of this country than atheism.

First of all, look at the numbers. What percentage of Americans claims to be atheist? What percentage claim a literal interpretation of the Bible?

Secondly, an atheist doesn't care if you believe what you believe, as long as you don't try to force it on others. Don't try to make everyone conform to one (narrow) set of religious beliefs. Believe what you want, just stop trying to make all laws conform to your particular set of beliefs.

Third, with atheism, "holy war" is by definition not possible. Atheists can't be righteous to the same degree because, well, for them there IS no god. The degree to which you can claim righteousness is thus inherently limited for atheists.

Fourth, atheists believe in institutions like public schools, which strengthen the fabric of this country. Why? Because it is the meeting ground of people from all different backgrounds--and yes, religions--in a place where human exchanges can take place in a context where no religious ideology is favored (when schools are at their best). At places like public schools, children learn that they can be friends with and learn from people of differing beliefs and worldviews. Favoring a religious ideology is the domain of parents, not the schools. The schools can teach ethics (the importance of honesty) and how to live in a society (treat others as you would have them treat you), and intellectual curiosity (which includes critical thinking).

But the premise of this article, that religion is under threat from atheism, when the number of Americans practicing religion vastly outweighs the number who claim to be atheists is exactly the paranoid thinking that fosters fundamentalism. People who do not practice an organized religion are tired of having the religious militants accuse them, demean them, try to convert them, scold them, condemn them. They refuse to acknowledge any other belief set besides their own as having any value. And they are so convinced that they have found the answer for everyone that they think they have a right to change the laws to reflect that.

That is where we are in this country today.

There must be an editorial template floating around the Christian blogosphere that comes ready to print with canned attacks on "militant atheists." I am 100% certain I have already read this same idiotic tripe elsewhere.

It is just possible that you holy people could look up the word 'atheist' and replace it with it's exact synonym "non-believer" and then resubmit your juvenile, sensationalist article?

Then ask yourselves if a "militant non-believer" makes any bloody sense? How can one be a 'militant' "non" something?

Are Hitchens, Dawkins, etc., energetic in their condemnation of superstitious dingbats who actually pose a real hazard to children and those who are weak of mind? Yes, as are millions of other normal people.

All you've done is taken a simple Greek word, 'atheist', and twist it into some dark, sinister term for 'evil' -- but the term 'non-believer' just doesn't have that archaic, biblically-cool ring to it, right?

Sometimes I get a creepy feeling just knowing we share the same planet with far-out 'believers' like you.

.

'If such a being exists, how could the human mind comprehend or speak about it? If such a being does not exist what is it that is being denied by atheists?'
________________

And this is the bottom line with the idea of God. It's an oxymoron for the reason Mr. Keen posits above...such an intelligence literally can't be conceived of, except in our fecund and richly populated imagination.

Atheists of the Hitchens/Dawkins school are offended by the trouble that this imaginary deity has stirred up over the millenia - and up to the present day.

Take at look at what the GOP religio-fundamentalists on the Texas school board have recently managed to ram through, with regard to school books. Religious wackos are always up to something in the way of forcing their worldview on the general public - and unfortunately all to often succeeding.

With a true separation of church and state none of this would be happening - and the Age of Enlightenment would still be unfolding in the USA. Mixing ultra-conservative republicanism with (christian) fundamentalism is a deadly and oppressive mixture.

Thus do we have the objections of both thoughtful atheists and a good many theists besides. This isn't denial, this is outrage at religion co-opting the political and civil process for it's own purposes.

Mr. Keen,
I like your view but I am sure it will not travel well through the B. Belt were there are flocks that give their money and shepherds highly skilled in controlling the mind of the sheeps. In Texas many still believe that our planet was made in six days. But Mr. Keen, keep trying, good luck.

Democracy is under attack by a new breed of militant "Christians" such as Mike Huckabee, Sarah Palin, Mormon Elder Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, Catholic League President Donohue and the evil spawns of Pat Roberson and James Dobson, McDonnell and Daily respectively.

Joining hands with the current crop of Rovian right-wing extremists, the label anyone and everyone who disagree with them as "atheists" or "non-believers." They scapegoat their common enemies, the Muslims, gays, Mexicans, liberal and now RINO's to rally their lemming masses through fear and hatred and then cry they are under attack when anyone has the balls to confront their intolerant religious and political bullying.

All of us use free-will, but the atheists wants "extra plus" free will, so that they can be pro-choice, gays or can do any thing criminal against the humanity in the name of atheism.
There are also, certain groups who themselves are deeply religious, but they want to distrub the christain social and moral fabric in the name of atheism.

Correction for another poster on this site. Senator Brown's centerfold picture was not a "full monty". His private parts were kept private.

As a Christian, I find it hard to understand why someone like Hitchens is so threatened if he doesn't believe in God in the first place? I am not threatened by other religions, Muslim, Jewish, Budda, crystal gazing, atheists, whatever.

A far as Christianity, there is only one question an individual truly needs to consider and that is whether Christ is who He says He is. And that is between you and God, no one else.

The fact that man even conceives of the concept of God, to me, is spiritual evidence of His existence. And that's the rub for most people. Can they accept spiritual evidence or must everything be an earthly element to lead them to believe.

"If such a being does not exist what is it that is being denied by atheists?" How can a newspaper, or book publisher, take seriously a person who makes this kind of moronic remark as part of his argument? I am astonished to read a howler like this in The Washington Post. Are ordinary standards of rationality simply suspended in the "On Faith" section of the The Post?

I really admire how in the open fellow Atheists have come out in the last few years. There is little fear of religion anymore. Atheists can openly ridicule religion and it's catching on!

Your free choice is a gift of God.

Says Prof Dr.Mahdi:
An animal is only affected by external

influences, that is, it only learns from the two external sources of influence from the environment

(which are the physical source and the social source of environmental influence), because an animal does not have a symbolic language so it has no ‘inner speech’. Human beings, having a symbolic language, are also affected by inner speech which

becomes the third source of influence from the environment, in this case an internal source.

A human being is different from an animal because we have a symbolic language which enables us to have inner speech. Man’s inner speech is of crucial importance because, among other things, it gives
us our free-will. Teaching Adam the names of things is how Allah endowed man with free-will to carry out his role as Khalifah of Allah on earth – so that he can by his free choice make himself good,

help others to be good, and make the physical world good. Man carries out Allah’s Will by his choice, not because he is made to. In contrast, an animal is made to do what it does. The way Allah
makes the animal do as He desires is by giving the animal the ability to learn, just like a human being.

But that one source, the third source of influence, the inner speech (which is from the internal environment), is missing in the animal.

Ultimately, the only rational persons are the agnostics, those who say they do not know. Atheists and theists are the same, both making a leap of faith to declare definitively what they do not and cannot know. I myself am a very strong theist and am fully cognizant that I have made a leap of faith. Oh, but that most atheists and theists could be so honest and acknowledge that we don't know and that it is all right to debate which of the two leaps of faith is correct!

There is no such thing as "fundamental atheism". Atheism is the absence of certain ideas about things that are maybe felt and assumed, but unproven. Atheism is not a religion and the term itself is not a logical one, since it is based on a false duality.

Representatives of religion have been overwhelming bullies for thousands of years, and still are. Only recently has it been allowed by law to even utter the words "there is no God", whereas it has been mandatory to say the opposite.

Religious people still hold a vague feeling that it's aggressive an inappropriate to say "there is no God". We are showered in religious messages every day, and yet even a few bus ads are seen as vicious attacks.

Silly.

"Religion is not speculating about the existence or non-existence of otherworldly entities, but is living with a sense of wonder and struggling to keep our one and only earth a sacred dwelling place."

You are arrogant. Non-Believers do live with a sense of wonder and respect, too.
More: They do not believe, that the world needs to die to be saved like those, who WANT f.i. climate change to happen because it is needed for the apocalype to happen.

Reading comprehension deficiency and wilful ignorance are common among atheists.

Self-replication is a solid proof that a super-intelligent God exist. Only a crazy person can dispute this. It's sad coz atheists will pay a heavy price for their stupidity.

I've seen many flowers and none can be said as ugly. They are all pretty. How can something without eyes and brain able to critique itself make such a visual masterpiece unless there's a highly intelligent being behind it?

Animals are different from humans. They belong to a lower form of intelligence and morality. If you butcher half of the pigs in a pen (most of these pigs are siblings), life continue with the remaining pigs as if nothing happened. Nobody will shed a tear for their "brother" or "sister" whom you just butchered.

You can't apply the morality of animals to humans like what evolutionists are doing. Humans belong to a level of intelligence and morality almost equal to God. This is both a blessing and a curse. A curse to the unbelievers and blessing to the believers.

If one thinks he is an animal, that is not an excuse in which he won't pay for the stupidity he makes. Animals have all the right to be stupid coz they belong to a different realm - the lower intelligence or the "stupid" realm.

The problem with atheist is they try to belong to that "stupid" realm. It's not possible. It's a formula for a path towards hell. Don't be duped folks.

Darwinian Evolution is on its way to the garbage bin. What a sigh of relief.

"The fool has said in his heart there is no God!" This 3000 year old wisdom of Solomon is based on the evidence we see. Then one looked at a flower, now we use electon microscopes and the Hubble telescope. The same Designer shows His order, power, mystery, and beauty regardless of how we look at His finger prints. Unbelief is the negative emotional reaction to the possibility of having to confront God and give an account of one's denial of His existence....RR

What would anyone wonder about how weak Christian Religion has become when we read how the Pope is allowing and protecting Priest who molest kids and even bring young men to the Vatican for sex. We see US Priest molesting kids and even being gay but in the closet. Our Law Makers are poster people for US Christian Values we are to follow but their acts are more of Satan. Senators Ensign, Massa, Vitter and Craig. We just saw a Scott Brown elected as Senator who used his Center Fold Fully Monty picture to get votes. It seems when Law Makers protest Religion their caught committing great sins. Churches have become businesses with Priest and their wives driving matching BMW's. While the church goers keep giving in hopes God will save them.

I'm with Adolf Grunbaum here. What's at issue is whether or not it's ethical to make knowledge claims which cannot be supported by evidence.

Religion makes many such claims, particularly in the realm of morals and ethics.

Atheists make one such claim, when they argue that you can be certain that everything we experience is a result of chance.

http://www.theosophical.org/publications/questmagazine/julyaugust2000/somerville/index.php

"From Exclusivism to Convergence:

How We Relate to the Religions of Others; Part 2. Pluralism, Convergence, and Response

By James M. Somerville

Faced with the fact of divergence in the religious traditions of the world, some believers in a particular tradition are exclusivists, rejecting all other traditions as errors. Other believers are inclusivists, recognizing other traditions as lesser or imperfect forms of truth. As possible responses to religious diversity, there remain two other approaches: pluralism and convergence."

Conversion and Ecumenism

Exclusivism, in its fundamentalist dress, has sometimes degenerated into bullying: either convert or be killed. Jews have repeatedly been faced with the choice of death or conversion. Short of threats to life and limb, a gentler form of terrorism is the policy of the true believer to frighten potential converts with visions of what will happen to unbelievers in the world to come. They will surely be lost unless they are baptized and are washed in the blood of the Lamb.

Since they know they are right, exclusivists are known to wave aside every nonconformist element in their domain. They often use democratic means to take over the leadership of a denomination, as well as its seminaries and educational institutions, then oust all the well-trained faculty members who do not agree with their inerrantist literalism. Exclusivism does not always take this form, but the historical record shows that it very often does."

1 of 1,2,3

Fact/Reality/Truth: LIFE, as I WE know "IT", or as WE Cosmic Feelers see "IT" is about-being "ITSELF" (Where IT = "SOURCE-1", or Cosmic Sponsor) and "IT" is never a HE nor a SHE); but is/was A-MIRACLE in Motion! Not MOSES, not JESUS, not MUHAMMAD, not VYASA, not GAUTAMA, not Confucius, not..

So Being Born , Wed or Unwed, means Zero Sin Zero Curse for Justly Appearing via responsible or unresponsible coochy-poochy moment!? So Birth (forget Sexual Guilt Stories) was/is a Miracle all this time appearing Us Justly in TIME [holy TEMParure], not Unjustly; contrary to Any Hashed-up or Rehashed-down Pre-Historic ADAM/EVE or some Tribal RACIST/DRUNK-NOAH competing 'First Persons' jealous stories!

Being Born is a "Pre-Blessed" experience as any wise Cosmic Feeler of a man/womb can attest' except a fool; Each knows that from the on-set or getgo, of our Holy Cosmic due-to-be "Magmapercolation-Effect" which happened some +/-4.8 BILion-Years ago;

way after the Huge-Flash (some 14.8 Billion Years ago), and thence via the amazing "Oceanic-Megaplume-Womb" Effect of where Us 'UpRights, US "ITites Percolated-out Of; somehow'' some +/- 400 MILlion Years Ago but way way after the great release of Atmospheric holy H2O+ Revealatings/Evolutings via RAUCH (Breath)..

Interestingly: WE All have, as common but Unique attributes, an Eternal Frequency wrapped in BioCrabon-based Jackets where each Soul belongs to the "MEME-Pool"; a Commonality that can Never be Denied. You are your Frontal-Lobe and Ye art What Ye Remember or Know..

Fact: WE all arose from the Almighty "FLASH-1st", a/k/a the "BIG-BANG"2nd and then the "Big-Vibrations" 3rd; Sequenciates. Not arose from the Quran/Koran sequences (far from Close); not Chumash/Bible sequences(somewhat Close; i.e., "Let There Be Light, Photons"), not via Gita/Geeta sequences (kinda close), not Kangyur/Tangyur's sequences (Far from Close).. Fact:

All, Every and ANY so-called "Atheist" (also Believers of all non-Believers?) has/Have Religion!? IT's called "HISTORY". And History, which is what HOPE is is OUR Judge, Jury & Witness. WE(i), ALL, Appear in Miracle from the "DUE-TO-BE" (Command/Fiat) way way from "The Beginning" of the Holy (Cosmic) First-FLASH 1st." Then Came the holy NEBULA: a Phenomenon that leeches-out of cold Space & creates HOT; a Something from a nothing phenomena; like Thunder Clouds!?)

3 of 1,2,3.
As a Progenitor of the Silica/Dust/Gas and "IT" EVOLUTING PAH"s Emissions, ever so slowly & Magestic thus preparing ITSELF/Us by weaving LIFE, aka LOVE, into and out of the "PLASMATIC-LIGHT" via the "ZIRCONIAN-(Holy)SHAFT" of which begot Earths Axis and Earth's Compass (Made possible via "IT"s Holy "TIME". Note: The AURORA's are one of the Holy Cosmic Feelers Faith RELIGIOUS-WONDERs, not only Splendor. Beyond a Heritage Site.!!

Note again: "TIM"E here = The Holy MIZAN (Balancing) doing "IT"s ABSOLUTE Holy "TEMPer-ature Act via US. There is zero man-made clock-"time" awareness here; includes via Any Bible/Quran/Gita...

"Atheists" or neo-Deists, neo-NonTheoists, neo-Seculraists, neo-Agnostics, neo-Humanists, Neo-Naturalists, neo-believers or neo-nonbelievers.., All "Believe" in IT"s own "HOPE" + in their own unique HOPE. HOPE is inescapable! HOPE is the plane of the Soul wherea Person is Driven, forward, never backwards, by IT's SOURCE (aka Creator; but actually is a Nameless curiosity; hence an "IT" causing the Holy-EXPANSION; call it Invisible Matter or Invisible Energy, or Invisible Hand.. doing a Job or Work until job Complete?).

But then again; Think of "IT" as a Universe thats a Heart-Beat going FROM: Absolute HOT (Ultimate Contraction) to a Point (Ultimate Expansion); then Reverse yes, reversing "ITSELF" all over again, US via "IT" not "IT" via US, going to the COLDEST (Ultimate Contraction) point but Inverted from the hottest point in TIME (Temperature)..! Ya Ya!

WHEREFORE: "IT" is possible that The-Dead (Actually We never Die. And Thanks via the Cosmic Decay mechanism (from Something to nothing or back again) of all "IT"s Bio-Finite Living things & Stuff) can Rise-Up! Important: "Bio-Finite Death is not (i) our Trans{Finite-Death."

Today it is US Cosmic-Feelers Faithers or "ATHEISTS, AGNOSTICIANS, SECULARISTS.. Non-Believers" (Actually real Believers) who still endure the Wrath of the so called 'Believers' posse/gangs fundamentalists Kettles calling the Pot Black; Or worse, CULTures, SECTions , Heretics, Voodooists, craized Esoteric, etc..?

"We're Already Taken Care of & R' Always Ready"

http://www.theosophical.org/publications/questmagazine/mayjune2000/exclusivism/index.php

" How We Relate to the Religions of Others; Part 1: Diversity, Exclusivism, and Inclusivism

By James M. Somerville

John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when.

Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam."

It is disturbing that religious violence and hatred continues unabated due to radomness of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the stupidity of it all.

3 of 123
And Ye must understand that OUR Sun/Solar will also EXPAND & likewise surely Contract but will Evolutingly, O' so lovingly, will INTROVERT, not EXOVERT ,"IT"-SELF this TIME around in say, +/- 6.666 Billion Years forwards for Another "DUE-TO-BE" MOMENT. So please; Believe in "IT", in order to have fun in the Future Today before Ye Perish again, but w/out Punishment nor any Banishment thistime. PURGATORY? is not the ultimate Possibilities of I-selves. This fate is called "POOF-TIME-a-GONNER" via the "Heuristic-Orthogonal-TransReality" Experience. Or Place To place realms.

Secret: "END OF TIMES" here is not to be confused with the Holy PALINDROME, aka Holy CRUNCH via the our Great Cosmic "SYSTALTiCYCLE"s unstoppable Holy-Cosmic Business and Works for "IT"s own survival via the Absolute Holy Expansion then Holy Contraction Truth; A Miracle in Motion (either way you look at "IT"), which will once-again start-reversing IT-self in +/- 33.666 Billion Photonic/Light-Emissions Cycle-Years from Today.

Note: "IT" does it for "ITSELF" and WE-HU{MATE}s are only Part of "IT"s Holy SYSTALT{ICYCLE; a/k/a OUR-Reality.

Note: This is only a Series of Many that "IT" uses to inevitably complete "IT"s own great, but inevitable "Holy-CLOSURE/CIRCUIT". A task involving "IT"s True-Warmth. Hence; "What goes/comes around, comes/goes around." Nothing Mysterious about "IT". Justly Flow along wit "IT"; without the Tulip fields.

So now/Today You finally got to discover, not from Quran/Bible nor Gita's.., but learned from Us: From WHERE and also HOW, you, (WE) US (i) or Parents, got-Here! And now Finally; WE, you (i), suddenly know HOW and WHERE We (Us) are all Going. Atleast via Holy Cosmic "ARROW OF 'TIME' {IT's Life Blood of HOT/COLD + MATTER/Anti{MATTER} swooshing ITSELF & US around and around.. Eternally} "For another miraculous "DUE-TO-BE" moment} somewhere via TIME someplace.

souq okaz ,.1500 years ago.

souq okaz was a famous market place of arabia,
thinkers,poets and preachers used to come to the souq speaking and exchangeing ideas and wisdom.

aamir benlzarb said,

no thing none is self created

no nothing is self made

no comer unless goer

if diseas can cause the death of mankind medicen must resurect him or her!!!?

(in other words he saying that not the diseas nor the cure can cause the death or the life of mankind or any kind,there is a superior will above man kind).

delusional organic primitive heads of the dizzy ^reason age^ can run this simple test ,
let them use all the advanced technology and science to resurect just one simple ant.

I don't understand these last posts. They appear to be gibberish, or is it some kind of code?
Anyway, I think Sam is making this too complicated. Most of my friends who are believers have talked to their God (or think they have), so they believe. There is some evidence of a neuropsychiatric mechanism which underlies this perception, which is apparently quite convincing to the person experiencing it. I have never experienced this, therefore I'm a non-believer.

Aa of C of BC

Note: Prez Dwight Eisenhower ("IT" bless Him, et al) had a sign on his desk that read, "The BUCK stops HERE". So, "IN 'IT' WE TRUST"

Important REVEALation: For the Nth-time; According to Us SEcularists, Atheists etc.. who have History/Huge-Flash/Big-Bang = HOPE, as their (OUR) Cosmic-Religion, or as Natural-Faith, like a Belief but in A "SYSTEM (of Miracles)" that; IT is Possible for "TIME" to Reverse ITSELF!?

B of C:
HINT: 2-things:
1) WE (I) are in a Miracle Motion (from Huge-Flash-) called "ETERNITY AVOIDING LONELINESS" phenomenon/a and 2) WE (YOU) , as a Heart Beat, appear in "IT"s own holy cosmic {SYSTALTICYCLE, aka Heart Beat} in Frequency & in Sync; with "IT"s own holy cosmic Miraculous EXPANSION; that will (inevitably) contract; justly like what is perceived as ETERNAL (by US Non-Believers) Heart-Beat-Of_IT"s-UNIVERSE(Constitution) via IT"S CLAUSES (Laws of Nature).!

Note: The Laws of IT's own Nature (Many Clause(s)), like OUR's and the Realm of IT's own Universe (1-Constitution), like OUR's; Are Inseparable! Like STATIC-Electricity is inherent/Embedded inseparable from Electric-CURRENT. The Koran, via Messenger of GODs books and their stories, cannot-Conduct-Anything, that WE don't already know. Fact: Biblical 'light' story is not/never same as Secular/Agnostic/Atheist 'Photon' (Beam me Up, Beam me down) story.

Nor is Biblical 'water' (Walking on or Splitting the 'H' & the 'O') story same as OUR 'H2O' real stories. Note: "IT"s H2O part is really Holy; But mans biblical or ritual 'water' story, as be same thing as 'H2O', is never Holy. Only "Jealous"y believes in such; A Satanic-Versus trait. Includes by those who worship Fear. Note: for is is impossible for OUR "IT" to be Scared/Fear nor be Jealous and especially to go-back or Break it's own Commandments; i.e. "Let There Be HUGE-FLASH-1st"

C of B C
Remember: WE 'Non-Believers' now know, in all our Hearts and all our Neurones That; WE, You and other stuff n Things justly-Appearing via holy-TIME, but in Miracle, that WE (I), aka a "ME{ME" (An Biological Ghost; Image of Parents Ghosts, aka, OUR real g-ds) art All "NATURALLY-SELECTED" and (I/WE/THEY) AM aware that (I) is/was never "Begot?" as if be a "GOD(s)Chosen People" of some Mixed{Multitudes of War-faring craized Circumcised-Delusional, as if "PROUD?" Pre-Historic psyc{hotic thinkers. This is OUR real Stories!

Fact: it's the Story of our "IT", for Us to forever and Morally Enforce, ironically; against the Non-Believers {Abrahamic, Vedics, Shomans, Voodoo etc..Devil worshipers); never the other-way around. So

"WE ARE THE (REAL)BELIEVERS!" No longer are You PRE-historic Bible/Quran/Geeta... (Wanttobe) Thum{pers/Fundamentalists the Real Believers. And WE're not Sorry! WE (I), as "EX" abe/vedic... believers, will never again Trust someone else's 'Man-Made' or their imagined MY 'Made-by-God' Book/Stories. Call Us Her{etics, Go{ys, Cuf{furs, Infidels, Satans, Blas{phemers... but WE (i) will never "SUBMIT". This is not a Cartoon; And Please don't Treat our "'IT'" Story as such.!

newsong1

Your are blinded by your jealousy. All your arguments is zero/zero. Can't you read "we had an obligation to offer them to the ummah (the human society of Allah’s Creation."
The fact is you comment so much under rage and for so long choosing different names that now you have become a mental case.
We proudly own Moses as well. And Abraham too who was not a Jew, if so prove here, I challenge you.

Correction C of C:

Such a Faith/Belief (thinking in "IT", as our new-Religion), but where you fail to, is what makes your UMMAH's (Organized Islamic Global Community) the "My Alaha God" thinkers so very dangerous to US, aka your Non-Believers of a New-Religion"

C of C:
OUR Future-Bound Purpose/Future Is in the awareness of The "LAWS OF IT"S NATURE" = [OUR] Holy "CLAUSES" & that "IT'S "UNIVERSE/SPACE" = [OUR] Holy "CONSTITUTION"; to Magnify, Uphold & make Honorable till Death Do-US-PART (never apart). So, By this New Belief SYSTEM(like a Faith or Religion), For US "SECULARISTS", AGNOSTICS, ATHEISTS, Future-Bounders, "Space-Forth" Thinkers.. is what allows us (no-Believers?), a/k/a the "Old-Time-Religious-FREE" to Enforce (locally or Globally or on other World) "the holy Cosmic "RULE OF LAW" (for Genuine MORALITY sake) And never will WE (i) attempt to 'Enforce' your/their "DRUNKIN (Racist) NOAHCH" Stories+, by force or such Projectings on anyone anymore. The TRUTH (opposite MYTH) does Magic. TIME is our best medicine and keeping busy is our Weapon, not Procrastination.

Such Faith/Belief (thinking in "IT", is our Religion) is what makes your UMMAH's, the "My God" thinkers; so very dangerous to US, aka your Non-Believers of another mans ALLAH."

Note: Moses, the Novel Star, when writing penning? about the NOAH Character, was so dumb, that he did not know that "ALL BACTERIA" (Micro-LIFE; aka unknowing, the Disease Culprits) did not Perish/Die in his or someone elses Delush/Gilgamesh etc.. Flood-Story. The 8 Survivors story and a Man-Made Boat story with afew , not ALL Species/Array of Animals; is very un-Future & un-Modern {Backwards]. These Stories, which other Humans? kill each other over; turns Us (Future Minded's )Off. And this current "Reality Of (shared) Global History" via Sociology, like-WISE (hence with "IT" that really does knows ALL) can't be preached, Situationally-Lying about nor imagined or Psyched away HokisPokus or in denial Acts, Fads, Voques or style. This applies in Allegorically, Mystically or as if be read Literally interpretations.. which can't be Deny'd away; nor Borrowing/Stealing the "Non-Believers" Discovery's; incorporated as if Genuinely Islams!?. All Abrahamic or Vedic Biblical Morality System(s), competing for a Name for the Creator of Photons & "IT"s Laws; is , beyond Proof & {Forever} Broken. Please Accept this Truth or YOU & UMMAH will surely Perish in the Future.

Good News: YES, "IT" (not a HE or a SHE) loves US (you) but not 'Ala', not 'God', not 'G-D', not Hashem, not Amen, not 'Holy-Ghost'..... Get used to "IT"!

Question: Besides 99 Names; Why is Islam-Ummah today, now suddenly ruling against Kiffurs (US non-believers of Quran et al, aka Infidels) saying that it is now blasphemy or forbidden for any non-Islamic to use the word "ALLAH" but not to commingle godly words in Sermons, Print etc.. as with "YAWEH", JEHOVAH" "ISHVARA" "GOD", the "Holy Ghost" etc..? Guess it's the Non-Believers Problem.! Let the Believers fight it out aye?!

Spiderman2 wrote: Self-replication is a solid proof that a super-intelligent God exist.

How is that solid proof?

Once again:

It is disturbing that religious violence and hatred continues unabated due to radomness of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day and/or the sides of every bus, that we would finally realize the stupidity of contemporary religions and their mythical promises.

"Writes Prof Dr.M.Mahdi:..."

His writing demonstrates that he knows little to nothing about science, but is well versed in superstition.

HITMAN1: Three Things. YOU (WE) said, AT;

Part 1 of 2:

1) WE [Only IslamiCS?] know that the {near Zero Kalvin} space which contains our physical universe is expanding. This is a concept so alien to human thought that until Albert Einstein [A Judeo-abe-Jew) developed his General Theory of Relativity early in the 20th century it had never occurred to any of the world’s great minds {Non-Believers}, but was stated in the Qur’an over 1400 years ago when Allah told us, “I am expanding the universe with my power”. Even Einstein was so astounded by his discovery that he falsified his data to show a universe that was not expanding, because he well understood that an expanding universe implies there was somewhere in the distant past a moment of creation for the universe. AND AT;

2) When "YOU" say "WE" you mean "UMMAH" (Islamic Community of Allah Believers; not non-believers of ALLAH). YOU Say, "We find Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity showing us {Believers} that the non-material existence beyond the physical world consists only of absolutes, some remarkably similar to what everyone’s religion has considered to be among the primary attributes of God.??? Then YOU (WE?) use the words "ETERNAL" "OMNIPRESENT" "OMNIPOTENT" AND AT;

3) "..The great significance of the above findings is that they destroy any possible notion of the physical universe existing as a fixed number of material particles which are moved about by a fixed set of physical laws.."
__
HITMAN2 & CO.,

I (WE) have bad news for You. WE (I) the Non-UMMAH of G-D believers, appearing, Justly for a TIME on Space-Ship Earth (of Many like here); includes Automatic Born Citizenz/Denizenz such as Atheists, Agnosticans, Secularists, or non-Heaven & Non-Hell Believers alike and others etc.., already know what you and UMMAH are justly now starting to find-out or are just beginning to know! Hitman1, Is this your 1st Science Project?

Please understand, and convey this Truth Below to Yourself, YOUR UMMAH (the human society of Allah’s Creation?) and others ignoramopus's gaining awareness THAT: Fact: IT was Mr. MOSES (the Judeo-abe YAHUD) not EINSTEIN the Secular quasi/Atheist or uasi/Agnostic or Borderline DIEST judeo-abe-Yahud; Who

1st said (not MuHAMMAD & not any Jude-abe ISLAMIC-Scholars of 999CE & thereafter Him) 3,400 Years ago, "LET THERE BE [Light] PHOTONS."

part 2 of 2:

So, Ex-Idol Worshiping Desert Dwellers, or Island Dwellers or Jungle Dwellers, or like yourself and such believer; have , suddenly turned Judeo-abe-Islamic (a Copy-Cat Invention) does-not mean "ALLAH" (An ancient Stolen Colloquial Eberu Word) via Mr. MuHAMMAD simply by Inscribing your, "“I am expanding the universe with my power” does not make it so. YOU also forgot to cite the specific SURAH# about the Expansion business.

Note: WE none Islamics knew this 40+ Years ago; So now suddenly you (Ummah) know; but audaciously apply such knowledge (After The Fact via Awareness or Awakening) attempting to give ISLAM,(instead of Non-Islamic?) the Credit for this 'ABSOLUTENESS' as If an Exclusive-Quranic-discovery FROM: the Nothing Quantum/Relativity Philosophy TO: Something..., aka OUR (not Islams alone) True Story!?

Hitman1, Please; YOU just shot Yourself and possibly the whole of the "UMMAH" on the Foot. I (WE) never imagined that one needs a PHD in Tautology to become a "BELIEVER" of "ALLAH" (not G-D of non Believers).

Oopps: Note: Believe IT or not but; OUR SUN/SOLAR was begot by the Holy-Cosmic NEBULA miracle, hence OUR EARTH (not Islams alone) & Similar Worlds (of Non Believers & Believers there too). And OUR Galaxy (not mentioned in Quran/Koran, et al) was begot by something bigger than a mere NEBULA, besides something 'Bigger Than Ourselves'!?

Guess what, On How IT (Reality)came about? I (WE) Can't tell you nor your UMMAH, not just yet, because you and Ummah will steal OUR ideas (like from Moses, Einstein etc.) and make it (Rehash it) as if be your Ideas 1st, which, as typical, is a sign of not only desperateness of the Islamic World being left behind, but the underlying Jealousy of the UMMAH (Islamic Community). Wake-Up!

Hitman sez:

'The interpretations themselves are at the cutting-edge of Islamic theological thought, but have so far been very warmly received by Muslim scholars across the world.'
________________

Actually, Buddhists developed the notion of the relativity of the phenomenal universe about 2500 years ago, very much along the lines of your presentation here, where you employ relativity and the quantum mechanics of today. Buddhists and the Buddhist philosophy are nontheistic. See also Vedanta and Taoism......

So none of what you present here establishes the existence of a creator being called God/Allah along the theological lines of creationism or intelligent design.

In summary, the leap from science to God has not been successfully made, except to the satisfaction of established believers.

Part 3

14. And, while everything in the physical universe has some mass greater than zero, which is a necessary characteristic for existence in the material world, light has no mass at all. As you approach the speed of light mass increases, at the speed of light mass is infinite. Regardless of how tiny the amount of mass you begin with, that mass rises to infinity at the speed of light. Since photons travel at the speed of light and do not reach infinite mass it means that they had zero mass to begin with, and light therefore does not actually exist in the material world.
15. In the physical existence everything is relative, the absolute existence or non-existence of any quality is not and can not be expressed, everything exists between those two extremes of the continuum from absolute expression to absolute non-expression. We find, though, that beyond the material existence all qualities exist either in an infinite state or have no existence at all, there is nothing in between.

The great significance of the above findings is that they destroy any possible notion of the physical universe existing as a fixed number of material particles which are moved about by a fixed set of physical laws. It is exactly this incorrect understanding of the physical existence which forms the basis of the scientific philosophy of materialism. It is the philosophy of materialism, particularly secular materialism, which has allowed the belief in God to be so powerfully challenged by unbelievers in these past few hundred years, more or less from the time of Sir Isaac Newton.

It is no longer intellectually possible nor logically reasonable, in light of the finding of modern physics and cosmology, to hold the view of the atheists (that there is no God). The only logically reasonable, and intellectually honest, conclusion that can be drawn from the findings of modern science is that God does exist, that the attributes of God are absolute, and that God did create the physical universe (including human life). We are presently at the beginning of the transition point from a secular materialistic world-view to a spiritual, God-centered world-view.

NOTE: These are only some of the simplified conclusions of a major work in progress, but we felt they are of such great significance that we had an obligation to offer them to the ummah (the human society of Allah’s Creation). The scientific facts behind these interpretations represent a virtual consensus by a number of the world’s leading physicists, including several Nobel Prize winning theoretical physicists. The interpretations themselves are at the cutting-edge of Islamic theological thought, but have so far been very warmly received by Muslim scholars across the world.

Part2

7.The Special Theory of Relativity allows us our first objective glimpse into that which exists beyond the material world.
8. We could have found anything once we got our first glimpse beyond the material world, but what we did find is indeed remarkable. We find Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity showing us that the non-material existence beyond the physical world consists only of absolutes, and some of those absolutes are remarkably similar to what everyone’s religion has considered to be among the primary attributes of God.
9. Example One: As the speed of light (300,000km per second) is approached then time slows, and at the speed of light time does not pass. This means for a photon of light which travels at exactly the speed of light, time does not pass. Therefore the photon is outside of time, and ETERNAL.
10. Example Two: Since no time passes for a photon of light, and that photon can be observed at different places in space, therefore that photon of light is simultaneously in those different places (and many other places) at the same time, and therefore OMNIPRESENT.
11. Example Three: Since every bit of matter in the physical universe is created by the energy of light, and that light energy constantly sustains and directs the activity of every bit of matter in the physical existence, then there is no power other than the power of light, light energy is all the power that exists, and therefore OMNIPOTENT.
12. Example Four: Since all knowledge that exists, that ever existed, or will exist, is stored by light energy and transmitted through light energy then there is no knowledge beyond that intrinsic to light, and therefore OMNISCIENT.
13. Furthermore, light does not actually exist within the physical existence although we can somehow perceive it. As you approach the speed of light one of the three dimensions (length, height, or width), the dimension in line with the direction of motion, becomes progressively less, and at the speed of light that dimension becomes zero. To determine volume we multiply height times width times length, but if any one of those three dimensions is zero then the volume is zero, and that thing therefore does not exist in the material universe. Light occupies no volume of space and therefore has no existence in the physical universe.

Part1

Writes Prof Dr.M.Mahdi:
I spent almost 14 years as a full time university student in the USA, including three Ph.D. programs, in child, clinical, and experimental psychology. I was an Assistant Professor of Child/Clinical psychology in USA
It was my study of theoretical physics, which changed me from a non-believer into a believer in God and it, was the perfection of the revealed truth of Islam in the Qur’an and Sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammad (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) that resulted in my becoming a Muslim almost 25 years ago.
Modern physics and cosmology (science of the origin and development of the universe) now provide firm objective evidence of the existence of God, confirm the primary attributes of God, and show how God created the physical existence out of ‘nothingness’. This knowledge comes from a critical analysis of the ‘Big Bang’ theory, Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity, and work being done in quantum physics.
1. We now know according to the most widely accepted theories of cosmology that the physical universe we see today was created out of nothingness (meaning – no time, no space, and no matter).
2. We also know that the beginning of the creation of the universe took place by light coming into existence at a singularity (a point with no dimension).
3. We know that the matter of the physical universe was brought into being by photons (little packages of light energy) which, when colliding with each other, formed the virtually infinite number of protons, neutrons and electrons, which in various combinations make up everything in our physical world.
4. In essence we can now accurately say that all the matter of the physical universe, ourselves included, is actually light slowed down.
5. We know that the space which contains our physical universe is expanding. This is a concept so alien to human thought that until Albert Einstein developed his General Theory of Relativity early in the 20th century it had never occurred to any of the world’s great minds, but was stated in the Qur’an over 1400 years ago when Allah told us, “I am expanding the universe with my power”. Even Einstein was so astounded by his discovery that he falsified his data to show a universe that was not expanding, because he well understood that an expanding universe implies there was somewhere in the distant past a moment of creation for the universe.
6. Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity (which he actually called his Absolutism Theorem because he realized he had found the one thing in a relative universe that was absolute) is about the special qualities of light.

The author of this article wrote
"Religious belief springs from an awareness that all creatures belong to a single commonwealth of sentient beings. This leads to a passionate commitment to venerate the miracle of ordinary life and dwell in the presence of the sacred."

Mr. Mike Ghouse wrote
"Religion is the most beautiful invention that has benefited humanity and will continue to do so. The purpose of religion is to bring a balance to an individual and balance with what surrounds him; life and matter. Most certainly, religion does not answer all the questions, but for a majority of folks, perhaps over 95% of them, it assures them that justice will be served today or an elusive hereafter or in the next birth."

Who are these guys - who mouth such drivel. I tried to make sense of Keen's paragraph above and my head started to hurt, because I could not figure out what "commonwealth of sentient beings" is. In case of Mr. Ghouse in saying "Religion is the most beautiful invention that has benefited humanity and will continue to do so. The purpose of religion is to bring a balance to an individual and balance with what surrounds him; life and matter." totally undermines all that folks tout about religion being Dog given - now we are told it is an invention? I could have told that when i was 5 years old. Then he goes on to bloviate that "it assures them that justice will be served today or an elusive hereafter". How, just by making unsubstantiated claims to that effect. Do these people even spend a moment to ponder about what they are writing?

"Self-replication is a solid proof that a super-intelligent God exist."

I think that the itsy-bitsy Spider means "procreation". "Self-replication" is a 100% copy of oneself, or a clone. As far as I know, that can only be accomplished by scientists, and has only been done successfully to sheep, cats, and dogs.

"If such a being does not exist what is it that is being denied by atheists?"

Nothing.

Generally, atheists simply do not believe in imaginary beings; they do not deny the existence of imaginary beings.

There is no need to deny the existence of something that one does not believe exists.

Where did the first piece of matter come from? Are you clear on the difference between relegion and God?

"It makes no logical or linguistic sense either to affirm or deny the existence of an infinite, supernatural God. If such a being exists, how could the human mind comprehend or speak about it? If such a being does not exist what is it that is being denied by atheists?"

Huh?

Why believe in something if there is no good reason to do so?

When a band of mathematicians or physicists highjack a plane and fly it into a skyscraper then you can talk about "militant atheists". Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris & Dennett did what? Wrote books? What terrifies you most, that they wrote the books or that they are finding an audience?

None of the ideas you have defended require any irrational belief whatsoever. Calling awe and wonder "religion" simply confuses the issue.

For more on escape and evasion training see:

http://www.training.sfahq.com/survival_training.htm

"Survival Training

All soldiers

Officer and Enlisted

will attend the

Survive, Evade, Resist, Escape (SERE)

course for three weeks at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

JFK Special Warfare Center and School
SERE/Terrorism Counteraction Department

The SERE/Terrorism Counteraction Department teaches

courses in two areas -

courses designed to help military personnel avoid capture or exploitation by the enemy, and

courses designed to make military and civilian students more aware of terrorism and protective measures against it. "

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survive,_Evade,_Resist,_Extract

"Religion is not speculating about the existence or non-existence of otherworldly entities, but is living with a sense of wonder and struggling to keep our one and only earth a sacred dwelling place."
-------------------------------

When I gave up on religion years ago, my sense of wonder increased enormously. It's as if believing in a cosmic superman had stifled my wonder at the cosmos and the mystery of existence - because my god belief answered all the questions - making actual thinking unnecessary.

The awareness that we are alone is an exciting eye opener, encouraging atheists like myself to continue exploring the great questions like "what's it all about" and going way beyond the childish conclusion that some enormous "being" must be responsible for everything.
Like the great Carl Sagan and the brilliant Richard Dawkins demonstrate - god is barrier blocking our view of what is real and amazing about existence. As Hitchens says - religion poisons everything, especially our perception of reality.

Mr. Keen's definition of religion is no longer practical. Would most atheist object to a communal bond that had nothing to do with ritual indoctrination of ideas about the supernatural? Probably not. Moving from today's religions toward that ideal would be a step in the right direction. Good luck selling it to religious people.

'The choice they would force us to make is between irrational religion and rational atheism.'

As regards the outspoken atheists/authors mentioned here, this is very probably true. Of course, 'all or none' approaches are unrealistic and absolutist in their own right - whatever the basis for this mindset.

With regard to certain modern secular atheists, I think this is a case of the pendulum swinging a bit too far in the opposite direction, as a reaction to 1) a complete disbelief in the dogma and supersition of religious traditions 2) the cumulative results of man's inhumanity to man based on religious conflicts.

However, it probably is a case of wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater, because religion has been an integral part of human society/culture from the beginning.

Neither good nor bad emerges in a vacuum, and religion and it's values are universal societal constructs that are clearly attached to both outcomes, as a study of world history and the overall affect of religious behavior amply demonstrates.

If you take atheist/scholar Daniel Dennett's approach as an exception to the Hitchens/Dawkins/Harris view, he sees the value in religion as a human enterprise - and I think this is because he has a both a wider interest and deeper understanding of the history of religious traditions.

These days there's a lot of brain power dedicated to expunging religion and religious beliefs as an institutional enterprise. At the very least, if we could keep religion separate from secular/civil government, we'd all be much better off.

Alas, it will likely be a very long time before humans are done with religion.

'Religion is not speculating about the existence or non-existence of otherworldly entities, but is living with a sense of wonder and struggling to keep our one and only earth a sacred dwelling place.'

Mr. Keen writes a thoughtful and well-balanced article that would find much agreement among other scholars of religion.

However, the above quote does not define or describe the nature of religion as practiced by the masses of believers.

A significant number obviously abide by a literalist understanding of the
mythology of various religious traditions.

All of this translates into the rampant supernaturalism and other-worldliness governing fundamentalist beliefs that are not uncommon to both monotheistic and polytheistic traditions.

Bringing religion back down to earth is a worthy goal - good luck with that.

Supermean2, we always look forward to your posts!

"The elemental emotions do not come from our social indoctrination but from the raw human encounter with the incomprehensible universe into which we have been thrown.".

That is exactly where our communal moral code is derived, from human interaction, law of common civility and changing needs of a civilization. While the Bible still continues to have passages condoning slavery, misogyny and homophobia, enlightened Christians have moved beyond 500 BC cultural norms. Why not recognoze that the words layed out in these religious texts can morph as the needs or th civilazation morph and not continue to use these outdated scriptures. Take the best that man has to offer and leave the rest that we know to be repugnant.

There is nothing generated from the ‘incomprehensible universe’ that leads a god to create an unerring text explaining morality, death, and social integration. This is a man-made development trying to explore and explain our greatest fears and strongest hopes. That said, we are at an age of reason now where we can more fully explain the elements, birth and death along with developing a civic code based on the best elements of mankind’s conscience as written in Judeo-Christian texts as well as those of Islam, Buddhism, and the humanists 1) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, 2)Thought shall not Koll, 3) Do no covet your neighbors property, etc. These ere universal aspects of man’s developing morality and NOT imposed on us from an external godform demanding a social structure of 500 BC be absolutely relevant today.

The wonder of religion

Religion is the most beautiful invention that has benefited humanity and will continue to do so. The purpose of religion is to bring a balance to an individual and balance with what surrounds him; life and matter. Most certainly, religion does not answer all the questions, but for a majority of folks, perhaps over 95% of them, it assures them that justice will be served today or an elusive hereafter or in the next birth.

It gives them a sense of safety and security that no one will go scott free, that humans are accountable for their actions and that there is bliss and or punishment for wrong doing.

The crimes are committed by men who don't get the religion. I particularly like the statement by the author, "In its original sense, religion bears nearly the opposite meaning it has been assigned in modern times."

Mike Ghouse
FoundationforPluralism.
www.MikeGhouse.net

http://www.theosophical.org/publications/questmagazine/mayjune2000/exclusivism/index.php

"From Exclusivism to Convergence: How We Relate to the Religions of Others; Part 1: Diversity, Exclusivism, and Inclusivism

By James M. Somerville

John Hick, a noted British philosopher of religion, estimates that 95 percent of the people of the world owe their religious affiliation to an accident of birth. The faith of the vast majority of believers depends upon where they were born and when.

Those born in Saudi Arabia will almost certainly be Moslems, and those born and raised in India will for the most part be Hindus. Nevertheless, the religion of millions of people can sometimes change abruptly in the face of major political and social upheavals. In the middle of the sixth century ce, virtually all the people of the Near East and Northern Africa, including Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Egypt were Christian. By the end of the following century, the people in these lands were largely Moslem, as a result of the militant spread of Islam.

The Situation Today

Barring military conquest, conversion to a faith other than that of one’s birth is rare. Some Jews, Moslems, and Hindus do convert to Christianity, but not often. Similarly, it is not common for Christians to become Moslems or Jews. Most people are satisfied that their own faith is the true one or at least good enough to satisfy their religious and emotional needs. Had St. Augustine or St. Thomas Aquinas been born in Mecca at the start of the present century, the chances are that they would not have been Christians but loyal followers of the prophet Mohammed."

It is disturbing that religious violence and hatred continues unabated due to radomness of birth. Maybe just maybe if this fact would be published on the first page of every newspaper every day, that we would finally realize the stupidity of it all.

"Religion is not speculating about the existence or non-existence of otherworldly entities, but is living with a sense of wonder and struggling to keep our one and only earth a sacred dwelling place."

Actually, religion is the attempt to explain what we do not yet understand using superstition rather than science.

ARE ALL YOU NON PRARACTISING ATHEISTS GETTING THIS?

Reading comprehension deficiency and wilful ignorance are common among atheists.

Self-replication is a solid proof that a super-intelligent God exist. Only a crazy person can dispute this. It's sad coz atheists will pay a heavy price for their stupidity.

What it is that you don't understand in the argument that self-replication is proof that a super intelligent being is behind it?

Sam Keen should start pondering about this also.