amelia45 wrote:

powellsanmiguel: "People should feel something
about groups that are trying to kill them. I
wouldn't call it bias, more like fear and dread.
And saying that all Moslems are not trying to
kill us doesn't make me feel much better."

"You are probably correct. But the reason there
is a thing called justice in the world is because
we are supposed to hate and fear those who
have harmed us or will harm us, not the nebulous
"they". The ones who actually harmed us includes
a few hundred, or a few thousand or tens of
thousands, but it does not include the 1 billion+
Muslims of the world."

You are probably correct. I would certainly NOT
blame or fear ALL 1 billion + Muslims in the world
... only those who actually commit butchery in
the name of Islam, those who dance in the street
at the butchery, those who contribute money &
other resources to the butchers, those who give
the butchers pats on their backs, who welcome
them, protect them, clothe & feed them, those
who rationalize the butchery, those who spread
the lie that Muslims are actually victims in the
butchery, or the more creepy lie that the butchery
isn't happening at all, and, of course, those that
stand by in silence and neither condemn the
butchery or do anything about it--Oh, wait, that
does include ALL 1 billion + Muslims.

Never mind,

S D Rodrian
http://islamisbad.com

.

amelia45 wrote:

powellsanmiguel: "People should feel something
about groups that are trying to kill them. I
wouldn't call it bias, more like fear and dread.
And saying that all Moslems are not trying to
kill us doesn't make me feel much better."

"You are probably correct. But the reason there
is a thing called justice in the world is because
we are supposed to hate and fear those who
have harmed us or will harm us, not the nebulous
"they". The ones who actually harmed us includes
a few hundred, or a few thousand or tens of
thousands, but it does not include the 1 billion+
Muslims of the world."

You are probably correct. I would certainly NOT
blame or fear ALL 1 billion + Muslims in the world
... only those who actually commit butchery in
the name of Islam, those who dance in the street
at the butchery, those who contribute money &
other resources to the butchers, those who give
the butchers pats on their backs, who welcome
them, protect them, clothe & feed them, those
who rationalize the butchery, those who spread
the lie that Muslims are actually victims in the
butchery, or the more creepy lie that the butchery
isn't happening at all, and, of course, those that
stand by in silence and neither condemn the
butchery or do anything about it--Oh, wait, that
does include ALL 1 billion + Muslims.

Never mind,

S D Rodrian
http://islamisbad.com

.

We're putting unecessary energy into debating to what extent Muslims are terrorists, and Americans Islamophobes. The real danger is not Muslims, regardless of garb. And the real danger is not terrorism either. Like a shark attack, a terrorist attack inspires, well, terror, but in the cold light of statistics, driving to the supermarket is far, far more risky.

The real danger we face is this -- ISLAMIZATION. Don't worry about terrorism. Don't worry about Muslims. Worry about seeing our world -- your world -- turn Muslim in all the ways that we don't want. That's the real danger.

Cladestineblaze, you claimed that Muslims are aware that Koran was written during times of war and so they do not interpret it literally. Let me ask you have you ever spent any time in a place with a significant Muslim population? How much of the history of Islam do you know or read about, even by the muslim scholars?

Did you know that the following dogma has to be subscribed by all Muslims regarding Koran.
1) Koran is the final revelation of the deity to its favorite messenger.
2) Koran is eternal truth
3) Koran was never created, it was uncreated (whatever that means). It existed always.

Given the above dogma, if you subscribe to the dogma, how can you not interpret it literally? What will the reasoning not to interpret it literally? Can you think of one? You cannot. You are just assuming that so much of Koranic text is absolute rubbish, that you cannot imagine that anyone would really take it seriously. You are using a the self reflection criteria, because you do not take it seriously you think no one else will, either. You look at the west and most of them do not take bible literally, not even the right wing nut jobs take it the whole thing seriously. Of course you will have a few neanderthals who take bible literally and you anticipate that same proportion of muslims will be neanderthals.

The fact of the matter is proportions of Muslims who take the Koran literally is far, far greataer than in the west. Additionally, they demagogue are the ones who hold the power in OIC. The so call non-literalists, are easily cowed down. The proof of that claim is the fact that even the so call moderate countries have the most draconian discriminatiry laws against non-muslims, are the non-literalists able to affect the passage of such laws? NO. How many christian majority countries do you know which have all their laws out of bible? How many non-muslim countries do you know which have laws totally discriminatory laws against the minority religions in their midst?

To other muslim posters who are critical of Juan Williams off the cuff remark, how many times have you condemned the pond-scum on Memri-TV? Probably never, yet you have not lost a minute to condemn him. That shows your prejudice.

ClandestineBlaze:

In todays Pakistani Newspaper
http://www.thenews.com.pk/24-10-2010/Opinion/11689.htm

Women, violence and the law
S Iftikhar Murshed
The woman's head was covered with a sack, her hands were tied and she was tethered to the ground – while a group of turbaned, bearded men hurled rocks at her, breaking her bones and then crushing her skull. According to reports in the press, she had been walking unescorted and was presumed guilty of adultery. The barbarity, allegedly perpetrated by the Taliban in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), was shown on Dubai's Al Aan television. The same footage was televised by a private Pakistani channel on Sept 28 and the story also featured that day in the local print media.
There was no reaction from civil society, no politician demanded that the government bring the criminals to justice, no resolution was passed by parliament expressing concern over the outrage, no statement emanated from the president or the prime minister condemning the incident, and the atrocity faded from public memory because the woman was a nonentity and did not matter.
The adage "justice delayed is justice denied" is not necessarily true. In the case of the unknown woman in Fata, as in other instances, the skewed Taliban concept of Islamic justice was as swift as it was brutal. The stringent Quranic evidentiary requirements for proving adultery were set aside and the accused was condemned for a crime she had never committed.
Around the time that the video footage of the stoning incident in Fata was aired on television, the MIT-educated Pakistani cognitive neuroscientist Dr Aafia Siddiqui was sentenced to 86 years in prison by a US federal judge. On Feb 3, she had been convicted on various charges, including attempted murder, armed assault, and using a firearm against US nationals. After the verdict, she exclaimed: "This is coming from Israel, not from America. That's where the anger belongs."
There was stern public and government reaction. Demonstrators took to the streets, chanted anti-US slogans and burnt the American flag. Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani described Dr Aafia Siddiqui as a "daughter of the nation," but did not think it worthwhile to make a similar pronouncement about the woman who was so cruelly put to death in the tribal areas. Equally forgotten were some 7,000 women languishing in prison, 88 percent of whom, according to the National Commission for the Status of Women, have been incarcerated on charges of unproven adultery.
***********************

And you tell us that the muslims do not take the Koran literally? Why do you think that most Pakistanis refused to say anything vocally against the brutal stoning of the women in FATA?

JJWBAKER,

By reading your post one can figure that Al Qaeda is using the Islamic religious hate and ideology as an strategic WMD to fight for their cause.

On one side are the actual fighters, on the other extreme the terrorists and in the middle the moderates. The later group act as a cover for the terrorists attacks (some knowingly, others inadvertently). Once they become a majority those with the power decide what to do with the country. We know the results: killing and displacement of moderates Muslims, sharia law, oppression of women, discrimination to kafirs, dead to apostates, theocracy, no civil rights, no freedom of speech, etc.

jjwbaker:

You, Michael Moore, and the other liberals really should go back and study Jimmy Carter and how he and his National Advisor Brzezinski allowed the monster of Khomenii to gain power in Iran.

Get clear first what they want. They want a central Muslim Empire ruled by a Khalifa. That is what they have been saying. Listen to them and believe them. They want to implement Islamic Sharia law in that Empire. Many muslims do not want that, but they cannot withstand the ideological arguments that the extremist bring from the religion. Read why the religious "hardliners" are able to stymie the moderate muslims in one muslim country after another from bringing about any change. These moderate muslims are terrified of the hardliners because the hardliners tend to walk up close to you and blow up. See how many local leaders, and moderates have been killed in Pakistan alone over the last five or six years. They hate us because we stand in their way to be dominant over the world. We stand in their way in Implementing Sharia around the world. They don't hate us because we are in their countries. We are in their countries because the very moderates who are unable to fend these killers on their own want us there. We are there so we do not have them killing here. The same moderates who tell us they want us helping them will stand up and mouth the killers line in public so they don't get killed. They say one thing to us and they say another thing to the killers. That is what you read when you read that the Pakisanis are playing a double game. All of them are to one extent or another.
This war is ideological and it is important for the Americans to understand the ideology that drives the killers who want to impose Sharia upon us. Their ideology and religion allows them to be deceptive and systematically lie. Kafirs are not full humans for them. Why do you think the blood money for a hindu woman is only 3% of a muslim man in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan in the present, in here and now? Think about it. Agains see how the non-muslims are treated in muslim countries and that should give you a very strong clue what they really think of you.

Cont'd for Cladestineblaze :
In todays news from Iran:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/thiefs-hand-cut-off-in-front-of-prisoners-2115267.html
Authorities in Iran have amputated the hand of a convicted thief in front of other prisoners, state radio is reporting.

The report did not identify the 32-year-old convict, whose hand was reportedly cut off in the central city of Yazad, or provide details of his crime.

Iran's judiciary uses a strict interpretation of Islamic law in handing down such sentences. Cutting off the hands of thieves has been rare in the past, but today's amputation was the second this month.
Pakistan:
Under the laws of Qisas and Diyat right out of the Quran that you claim is not taken literally, family members who commit honor killings go scott free because a relative of the dead can forgive the killer. So the brother kills, and the father forgives. See how many cases have been reported under that bizarre Islamic law. Christians are killed and burned on a regular basis. Property laws are the same as for Malaysia that I give above.
Up to 80 per cent of women in Pakistan's jails are charged under rules that penalise rape victims. But hardliners have vetoed an end to the Islamic laws
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/sep/17/pakistan.theobserver

Now tell me if you know of a country which implements or even has on its books laws from Old testament (including Israel). I can list you the laws of other muslim countries, and you will find the same thing.

Notice what the report from the observers says:
"But hardliners have vetoed an end to the Islamic laws"
In Yemen on child marriages for example:
http://www.al-bab.com/blog/blog1003b.htm
"Objections to banning child marriage come mainly from traditiionalists and the more extreme religious elements. A group of Yemen clerics, including Abdul Majid al-Zindani (founder of al-Imaan university and a prominent figure in the opposition Islah party) have issued a statement saying that "fixing the age of marriage is an act that contradicts the precepts of Islam".

The government has a huge majority in parliament and could easily push the law through if it chose to do so. But is it fearful of alienating key elements of Yemen's highly traditional society and being labelled "godless" by the Islah party.

Similarly the Islamic parties in Malaysia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, Afghanistan, seem to have veto power over the more moderate factions. Why do you think these religous people who you say do not take the Koran literally have so much influence in the present?

This is the reason, why one should encourage the "moderate muslims" and listen to them politely, but look at the actions across the globe at the laws and the condition of the non-muslims among the muslims to see to what extent have the muslims really been able to free themselves of the barbaric laws of the Koran that is stuck in the 7th century violent Arabia.

Cladestineblaze :
“Your problem is that you're trying so hard to define Islam as what you want it to be and you're forcing Muslims into a corner with your definition of Islam. Your definition of Islam is ridiculous. Keep in mind, the Koran was written during a time of war. Most Muslims understand this. They do not try to interpret the Koran literally,”

That is the reason why one should look at the laws of the Muslim countries in the present to see to what extent do they interpret the Koran literally. Here are some of the laws from some Muslim countries in the present (Here and now and not in history)
Saudi Arabia: A non-muslim may not be buried or cremated there because they do not want a Kafir prayer said there. Kafirs may not gather together to pray to their God. The blood money rates are as follows:
* 100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man
* 50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman
* 50,000 riyals if a Christian or Jewish man
* 25,000 riyals if a Christian or Jewish woman
* 6,666 riyals if a Hindu man
* 3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman.

Iran:
The constitution of the Islamic Republic of Iran recognizes Islam, Christianity, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism as official religions. Article 13 of the Iranian Constitution, recognizes them as People of the Book and they are granted the right to exercise religious freedom in Iran. The rest, well they are filth and cannot hold anything in public at all. So no buddhist monastries, or hindu temples, etc. The blood money rates are the same as in Saudi Arabia. The notion of Najjasat is back in full swing and according to that the kafirs are as filthy as Urine and feces. Apostates are killed as they are in Saudi Arabia. Bahai's are regularly killed in Iran. The property laws for the non-muslims are the same as given below for Malaysia.
Malaysia:
I posted these earlier. These laws are in the present.
1) No muslim can ever renounce Islam no matter what.
2) A non muslim man cannot marry a muslim. He must convert to Islam.
3) If a non-muslim converts then his children who are not adults automatically become muslims as well, and their non-muslim parent loses all legal rights to them. If the non-muslim parent does not convert the marriage automatically stands dissolved.
4) If a non-muslim converts and dies, then a distant muslim relative inherits all property and benefits. The non-muslim spouse is not entitled to anything.
5) The non-muslim children of a convert to Islam are not entitled to any inheritance. Only the muslim children are.
Malayasia State has dug up dead Kafirs and reburied them as muslims in muslim graveyards if they thought the dead had converted before his death. The dead man's kafir relatives had no say in the matter. That is how the courts ruled.

Cont'd.

Cladestineblaze chides AKafir thus:
“Your problem is that you're trying so hard to define Islam as what you want it to be and you're forcing Muslims into a corner with your definition of Islam. Your definition of Islam is ridiculous. Keep in mind, the Koran was written during a time of war. Most Muslims understand this. They do not try to interpret the Koran literally,”

“Fight the People of the Book until they pay an exorbitant tax (Jizya) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued.” (Quran 9; 29). The second successor to their prophet penned down a constitution for the treatment of Christians and Jews for all times based on the above command and calls it Omar Pact. Does that not sound as literal interpretation?
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html

Two things to read and you will see that the entire post 9-11 narrative about radical Islam AND about radical Muslims is a fraud:

The first is Michael Moore's "Open Letter to Juan Williams." Google, please. In it he quotes from court transcripts of Faisal Shazahd, the Times Square Bomber. Shazahd tells why he pleads guilty and why he has no remorse. Not one word does he say about Islam or jihad or religion at all. Read.

Next thing to read are pieces in the British press (not ours, unfortunately) about the latest Wikileaks. The Guardian and The Telegraph. Reuters, too. Read.

It will slowly dawn on you why they hate us, and it will suddenly come to you that it has nothing whatever to do with the evil Quran or evil Islam or evil Muslims. They hate us because WE have been occupying Muslim countries for thirty years and killing Muslim civilians by the hundreds of thousands starting with Desert Storm and continuing to this day. They hate us because as the lates Wikileak show, our regime change unleashed an orgy of sectarian killing which we stood by and watched while security was in our hands, because US command had a policy to stamp all reports of torture, rape, and murder "no investigation necessary." They hate us because our troops were for over ten years occupying their "hallowed ground" in Saudi Arabia, 1990-2003. They hate us because the sanctions we imposed on Saddam, however well-intended, resulted in the "unnecessary" deaths of tens of thousands of Muslims including children. There was a whole decade of attacks on US interests before 9-11 in response to US policies in the Middle East and the tens of thousands of Muslim non-combatants killed during the nineties. USS Cole. E. Africa embassies. Khobar. World Trade Center 1993. Somalia. Foiled attacks: the Millennium Attack, 12 mid-Pacific flights, the attempted assassination of Pres. Clinton. All these were in response to US policies, invasion, occupation, killings. Yes, Al Qaeda recruits by calling for jihad to cloak themselves with a moral justification, but its purpose is NOT to spread religion. This is NOT about religion, not about Islam, not even about Muslims. They don't need satanic verses from the Quran to know why they hate us. It is OUR policies and the invasion and occupation of their countries and the killing of their people they hate. The whole debate here about Islam and Muslims is a fraud. What "garb" were the hijackers wearing on 9-11? They were wearing ordinary, middle class, western clothing. Duh.

We know for decades Muslims have been killing innocent people in the name of Islam. Bin Laden is supported by millions of Muslims. No one issued a fatwa on Bin Laden. I wonder why. Because he is popular. No Muslim is as papular as Bin Laden among Muslims. Terrorists kill in the name of Islam. So when people see a man or a woman in conservative Muslim dress they think he/she may be a terrorist. I know many who wear such dresses are not. They are just wearing what they are used to. But the fear is justified.

The author is wrong in saying that only 9/11 created a negative image of Muslims: many Americans read news and what they see are daily Islamic terror attacks by Muslims in some part of the world- mostly targeting civilians.

In additional there are many plots and threats by Muslims regularly.

"How about the Afghan soldiers that fight alongside US troops.Are they good or bad? They are muslims,they pray five times a day and read the same Koran that everyone on this site seems so familiar with.
What about Iraq? The govrnemnt we installed has an army,of modtly Muslim people, that fought alongside our troops against Bin Laden followers.Were these Muslim Iraqi soldiers good or bad? They read the same Book as the Bin Laden people so are they as bad?"

You keep confusing Muslims and Islam. Most muslims are decent average normal people. But there is no "moderate" Islam. What is the ideology that drives those who aim to hurt us? It is Islam. That is what most people shy from saying openly and clearly. Are the laws in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Malaysia, Afghanistan from Islam or not? All these countries have Shariat courts and all them claim that no law can be supported that is against the Quran. Then see how these countries treat the non-muslims and then find out why?
Listen to the following you tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RMUyAy9zU0
She is a Muslim. And she is a very good human. She is a very brave lady. What she is talking about is Islam. She has been declared an apostate and many muslims want to kill her. Do you understand the difference now?

POSTED BY: AKAFIR | OCTOBER 23, 2010 10:59 PM"
======================

Have you ever read the Old Testament, akafir? Bloody, bloody, angry book. It makes the Koran sound like a book of nursery rhymes.

Why do most Christians ignore the Old Testament? They've moved on. Muslims are doing the same with Islam. Islam itself isn't the problem. The problem is when a government tries to make it a national religion. This is why so many Americans are fighting against the religious right from rewriting history and pretending that America is a "Christian nation".

You are guilty of confusing Islam with radical extremists who are using religion as a political tool. The pope did this with Catholicism during the Crusades. We've never had problems with Muslim nations. We have not been to war against Syria, Turkey, Iran, Jordan, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and so on. We've been to war with Iraq, but they were secular.

We are, however, at war against a small, extremist minority.

Your problem is that you're trying so hard to define Islam as what you want it to be, and you're forcing Muslims into a corner with your definition of Islam. Your definition of Islam is ridiculous. Keep in mind, the Koran was written during a time of war. Most Muslims understand this. They do not try to interpret the Koran literally, much like how most Christians do not interpret the Bible literally.

As for those that do, well, we have abortion clinic bombings. Extremists are everywhere. We have to fight them without alienating and demonizing the moderates who wish to live peaceful lives.

The problem is with you. Please change yourself.

"Look here, Poonawalla. Your poignant victimhood will not impress anyone until you renounce takiyya, jihad, dhimmitude, and sharia law. Until then, get the hell out of MY country.

POSTED BY: ELGROPO1 | OCTOBER 24, 2010 1:56 AM"
=============================

Look here, Elgropo1. Your blatant bigotry and denial of the issues, as well as lack of reading comprehension does not impress me.

If you read his article thoroughly and grasped it, he mentioned that Muslims need to separate themselves than those that we are at war with.

Until you learn to read and cleanse yourself of your shameless bigotry, then get the hell out of MY country.

no fear,no respect for a religion that allows lunatics to murder anyone with outcry over their butchery,except this is a religion of peace. what BS.the whiners and fellows travellers that us PC terms for this crappy cult,will eventually understand if they have their throats cut

Look here, Poonawalla. Your poignant victimhood will not impress anyone until you renounce takiyya, jihad, dhimmitude, and sharia law. Until then, get the hell out of MY country.

Having fear does not make one a bigot just as making inaccurate statements don't make the author an idiot. Fear is fear rational or not. Mr Poonawalla get your definitions and facts straight.

Posted by: marioliggi | October 23, 2010 11:14 PM "Obviously, despite the evil teachings of Islam, most Muslims, as you said, grow up to be decent average normal people."

It is not despite the evil teaching of Islam, but it is by ignoring the teachings of Islam. Most muslims do not know the Koran. Islam is some basic simple rituals and the rest is for the mullahs. The trouble starts when the muslim decides to become religious and starts studying Islam. Those are the ones who become susceptible to Al Qaeda.
Nearly all decent Muslims worry greatly that their impressionable kids may become too religious, too zealous in following the sunnah of Muhammad and his teachings and becoming a zealous "mullah".

Instead of being smug, I urge you to study a bit more about Islam and what the Kafirs are facing.

Take the example of the muslim jihadist (Posted by: Jihadist | October 23, 2010 11:25 PM). She claims to be a Malaya and at times boasts about the moderation of the Malayas.

Now some of the laws of Malaysia for the kafirs are:
1) No muslim can ever renounce Islam no matter what.
2) A non muslim man cannot marry a muslim. He must convert to Islam.
3) If a non-muslim converts then his children who are not adults automatically become muslims as well, and their non-muslim parent loses all legal rights to them. If the non-muslim parent does not convert the marriage automatically stands dissolved.
4) If a non-muslim converts and dies, then a distant muslim relative inherits all property and benefits. The non-muslim spouse is not entitled to anything.
5) The non-muslim children of a convert to Islam are not entitled to any inheritance. Only the muslim children are.

The muslim jihadist has been asked multiple times to tell us why are these laws so stacked against the non-muslims. Do these laws tell us that the non-muslims in Malaysia are considered second class citizens? And Jihadist has consistently refused to answer, but feels entitled to come and try to tell the kafirs here that they are Islamophobic.
Is it Islamophobic to try to find out why are the laws in the muslim countries so hateful for the Kafirs?

"Let us call a spade a spade". HELLO, been in this country long? Very clever, I'm sure.

"Juam Williams did not say he was afraid of Islam, but of Muslims."

He did not say that. Please go back and read what he actually said.

Imagine that - some Muslims can be afraid of Americans wearing "western garb" (or rather too little garb) and some Americans can be afraid of Muslims wearing "Muslim garb" (too covering garb).

We all know how a headscarf worn by a swarthy woman is more terrifying than if worn by Grace Kelly or Jackie Kennedy. Laws have been enacted or attempted to be enacted on that.

"Why is it OK for you to brand all muslims as terrorists because of the actions of few,yet you refuse the same argument when it was made by Bin Laden against the US."

ALL muslims are not terrorists. No one has ever said that. ALL germans were not Nazis. All russians were not communists.

"The question is why did no one,including the Church, take out the bible to preach to Hitler to stop killing the Jews."

The issue in the present is that Bin Laden is taking the Koran out to justify killing the Kafirs. The muslims around the world are taking out the Koran and the hadith are taking the Koran out to burn, kill, and behead the non-muslims among them. Unfortunately, the other side is terrified of the killers and hides and goes silent instead of taking out the Koran and standing against the killers. They are hoping that "we" the Americans and the Nato will take care of the problem for them. However, thanks to the wrong headed policies of the Europeans and even the Canadians and the Americans we have now amongst us millions of muslims in the west and a lot of the young among them are sympathisers and susceptible to the way Bin Laden uses the Koran. Those are the facts. And we are being told by the moderates who are unable to fight the Koran quoting killers on their own that if we examine the ideology of the killers and find it resting on the Quran, then we are islamophobes and bigots. That is precisely what those who want to see us lose would want and do. Read in their own words:
the Muslim Brothers "must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions." -- "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Brotherhood in North America," by Mohamed Akram, May 19, 1991.
This was a memo of the Muslim Brotherhood introduced in the trial of the first bombing of the twin towers.

AKAFIR my friend
you said "You keep confusing Muslims and Islam. Most muslims are decent average normal people. But there is no "moderate" Islam?

Juam Williams did not say he was afraid of Islam, but of Muslims.

Obviously, despite the evil teachings of Islam, most Muslims, as you said, grow up to be decent average normal people.
Thank you for making my point

Akafir my friend

The question is not as you frame it"Remind me again who in World War I or II took the bible out to preach that jesus commanded them to fight the wars? "

The question is why did no one,including the Church, take out the bible to preach to Hitler to stop killing the Jews.

I don't care about religions. People can think what they want as long as they act as they should.And people are responsible for their own actions not for the actions of their brothers sisters fathers or neighbours
Why is it OK for you to brand all muslims as terrorists because of the actions of few,yet you refuse the same argument when it was made by Bin Laden against the US.
We elect our governments so we are responsible for their actions, right?

"How about the Afghan soldiers that fight alongside US troops.Are they good or bad? They are muslims,they pray five times a day and read the same Koran that everyone on this site seems so familiar with.
What about Iraq? The govrnemnt we installed has an army,of modtly Muslim people, that fought alongside our troops against Bin Laden followers.Were these Muslim Iraqi soldiers good or bad? They read the same Book as the Bin Laden people so are they as bad?"

You keep confusing Muslims and Islam. Most muslims are decent average normal people. But there is no "moderate" Islam. What is the ideology that drives those who aim to hurt us? It is Islam. That is what most people shy from saying openly and clearly. Are the laws in Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Malaysia, Afghanistan from Islam or not? All these countries have Shariat courts and all them claim that no law can be supported that is against the Quran. Then see how these countries treat the non-muslims and then find out why?
Listen to the following you tube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RMUyAy9zU0
She is a Muslim. And she is a very good human. She is a very brave lady. What she is talking about is Islam. She has been declared an apostate and many muslims want to kill her. Do you understand the difference now?

AKafir

I'm Canadian, so I am more inclined to use my brain than your average American.
My typing sucks, and so does my spelling.
Do you have anything useful to add?

marioliggi | October 23, 2010 10:25 PM writes: "So the bible is so superior and wonderful, how come we suffered two world wars among mainly Christians?"

Remind me again who in World War I or II took the bible out to preach that jesus commanded them to fight the wars?
Now listen to any of the beheading snuff video put out by the Jihadis, or listen to any statement by Bin Laden and hear whay they are saying about who is telling them to get the kafirs to submit. Read the letter that Ahmedinijad sent and see how it starts and find out what that means in Islamic lore. All the justification that the Jihadis have ever used is through the words of the Koran and the example of Muhammad. That is why the muslims who don't want to come in the middle keep telling that Bin Laden is not using the "correct" Islam. Anyone can check whether Bin Laden is using the words of the Quran or not? He is. Now which interpretation do you want to accept? That is not "our" job. It is upto the muslims to reclaim their religion, not the kafirs. Look at the laws of the muslim countries and see how they are filled with hate for the non-muslims. Is that Islam? Why are so many non muslims being killed and burned across the muslim world right now?

How about the Afghan soldiers that fight alongside US troops.Are they good or bad? They are muslims,they pray five times a day and read the same Koran that everyone on this site seems so familiar with.
What about Iraq? The govrnemnt we installed has an army,of modtly Muslim people, that fought alongside our troops against Bin Laden followers.Were these Muslim Iraqi soldiers good or bad? They read the same Book as the Bin Laden people so are they as bad?

Apologies for my poor typing. I should have written:

Why should Moslems be responsible for the paranoia and attacks that are directed against them?

What would Williams say if a white man said that he didn't trust black people because they were dirty and dangerous? Would he recognise that as bigoted nonsense?

By the way, in times gone past, that kind of comment was made by some white people who demanded that black people had to use separate washrooms, sit at the back of the bus and prove that they had not stolen white property if it went missing.

marioliggi :"How about Rick Sanchez? Was CNN justified in firing him?
he only said that John Stuart is a bigot,and Jews are not suffering discrimination (not anymore anyway), so was CNN a PC lefty media outlet?"

Are you an american? It is Jon Stewart and here listen for yourself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcBVk6eLTE4

He said that Jon is a bigot and Jews own the media and because Jon is a jew he is bigoted against everyone who is not a jew. Listen to him and then listen to Juan and see if you can detect a difference.
Are you a self hating bleeding heart liberal who enjoys dissing America and enjoy flagellating yourself over anything that is wrong with the world and thinks that America is root cause of all Evil in the Universe?

Why should Moslems be responsible for the paranoia and attacks that are directed to the?

What would Williams say if a white man said that he didn't trust black people because they were dirty and dangerous? Would he recognise that as bigoted nonsense? By the way that kind of comment was made by white people who demanded that black people had to use separate washrooms, sit at the back of the bus and prove that they had not stolen white property if it went missing.

Don't think anyone including National Politically Correct radio can legislate people's feelings. True that most Muslims just want to make a living and have a nice life like any other Americans but they'll continue getting tarred with the terrorist brush of their compatriots. And it's not just 9/11 but continuing attempted acts of terrorism --Times Square, Fort Hood and various failed efforts that keeps many Americans reflexively nervous about being around Muslims, just in case they've happened to pick the one in the million Muslim who wants to end their lives.

How about firebombing Tokyo,Dresden and the nuclear bombing of Hriroshima and Nagazaki,are they justified?
How about invading Iraq which has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and was ruled by a ruthless anti-religious dictator , was that the Christian thing to do? How many Iraqi died in this ,clearly illegal attack? Would you call Bush a terrorist for attacking a nation that has not attacked the US or was his act moral only because he's an American?
What if mexico invaded and occupied the US, would you blow up a couple of shops downtown Mexico city? Would you then be justififed?
So the bible is so superior and wonderful, how come we suffered two world wars among mainly Christians?

Allah ah Akhbar!!!!! Die you filthy infidel!!

Out of curiosity.Are you all Republicans

How about Rick Sanchez? Was CNN justified in firing him?
he only said that John Stuart is a bigot,and Jews are not suffering discrimination (not anymore anyway), so was CNN a PC lefty media outlet?

Who is this guy? He is trashing Juan Williams? For crying out loud! Doesn't matter if you agree with Juan or not, the guy is totally credible! And, no, Juan is not a bigot! This Aziz guy is the bigot or a reverse bigot. His disingenuous NPR crap argument about this was the "last straw" stuff really needs to be edited out. Did the Post need to publish that? It was not fact, it was hyper-leftist-ventilation!

Get this:
All religions suck.
The absolute suckiest, way down at the bottom?
Islam.

Got God Gang

yall need to see the usa from a religious man's point of view

the muslims are not the enemy of america nor any other religious group

fast forward

the enemy of america is decadence and the hidden agenda is promoting a matriarch society

do you want more christmas or halloween?

suggestion don't buy hollywood+main stream tv+rap music.....they're putting crazy insane ideas in our children's heads

christmas / santa vs halloween / witches

psalm 127

read on....

@RMAHDAOUI,

JDP posted: "The latest example of their peaceful religion is a ruling by the Supreme Court of the UAE allowing beating by men of their wives and children.”

Then RMAHDAOUI commented: “See what I mean about the posts coming out of Tel Aviv? With all the negative comments about Islam and Muslims in the press during the past decade since 911, only a planted and paid Zionist cyber-shrill would insinuated that nothing negative about Muslims is tolerated in the media.”

My comment: If you google “ruling Supreme Court UAE beating wives children” will get about 3 million results in 0.40 seconds. The news about ruling has nothing to do will Tel Aviv or Zionists, but still you bring the “other people” you hate instead of addressing the retrograde and horrendous ruling in a country with Islamic majority. RMAHDAOUI and the supposed religion of peace are at war against women and children.

No the point is that the so called moderate Muslims like to pretend that jihadis have nothing to do with their religion or holy book. WHICH IS FALSE!

It is like saying that Christians who blow up abortion clinics are not Christians.

All the major institutions of Islam agree on the salient features of Islam - support for violent jihad to expand Islam, imposition of Sharia law, death for apostasy, second class status for non-Muslims in conquered lands, treating womean like chattel, death for homosexuals etc.

Very few honest Muslims acknowledge the problems as they are and the need for reform. Most are satisfied with crying hoarse about "Islamophobia" as if the rest of us are imagining the atrocities that jihadis perpetrate every day.

And the number of jihadis vastly outnumbers the statistical nutjobs in a population. That does not even include the sympathisers who if added would probably number in the 100s of millions. Which tells that this is not a problem on the margins of Muslim society. The historical and ongoing conflicts the world over and the action of Muslims states bear overwhelming testimony.

Here is the thing - moderates don't get to wash their hands off the crimes committed by jihadis. You either work to marginalize the jihadis, or you suffer the inevitable consequence of swearing allegiance to a fascist philosophy. All Germans paid for the insanity of Nazis. All Japanese paid for the Emperor's hallucinations. That's simply how things work.

Denial long ceased to be an option. It is only being perceived as deception now..so wake up before you end up being collateral damage.

Poonawala wrote:

"But if we Muslims are to cast a critical eye at ourselves, surely the West can do the same? For example, in the matter of the bikini. Far from being an expression of freedom, the bikini is as much a tool of oppression as the burka."

http://www.altmuslim.com/a/a/a/the_burka_and_the_bikini/

Read the article. 'Aziz' gets to decide what women want.

Surely Aziz, the answer be a big fat arabic zero? Ask any woman this side of the great islamic desert: Bikini or burka?.

Capiche?

Juan Williams I am with you.

Islamization is an experiment whose outcome can easily be seen in UK. That is where Aziz Poonawalla's coreligionist and co-national-origin people have brought Islam to the Kafirs. Todays News:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hardliners-call-for-deaths-of-surrey-muslims-2112268.html

Hardline Islamists in Britain have been distributing leaflets calling for the murder of AhmadiMuslims in Kingston-upon-Thames whilst mosques have been vandalised in Newham and Crawley. Preachers in south London have also been orchestrating a boycott of Ahmadi businesses and Ofcom has had to reprimand an Islamic satellite channel for repeatedly calling the sect "Wajib-ul Qatal" - an Arabic phrase used to describe those who digress from mainstream Islam that translates as "liable for death".
......
Police in Kingston-upon-Thames have opened a hate crime investigation earlier this summer when an Ahmadi woman was handed a leaflet by a man which stated: "Kill [an Ahmadi] and the doors to heaven will be open for you." In Tooting, meanwhile, some mainstream Sunni preachers have urged follower to boycotts Ahmadi businesses.
.....
****************************

The paper does not have the nerve to write truthfully just as the media over here is unable to report openly and accurately on Islam. Guess why an Ahmadi is bracketed in "Kill [an Ahmadi] and the doors to heaven will be open for you."? Because the leaflet does not say an Ahmadi, it says 'Kafir' and a kafir is a non-muslim which is what Ahmadis are considered by the muslims.

THE defining feature of Islam, its Koran, and it prophet Muhammad is the hatred for the non-muslim. Once you grasp that, Islam becomes trivial to understand and grasp.

[Some] people have fears; all kinds of fears and fears of other people exist. In fact, the President, when he was campaigning for the nomination, told the world that his grandmother exhibited similar concerns when faced with being in the vicinity of black men on the street, even though her daughter was married to a black man.

I can understand Juan William's fear; I also admire his courage to speak about it publicly. He did not deserve to be fired for what he said. I belief the explanation about his firing that included a not so subtlety disguised comment on his state of mind, was more of a firing act than Juan's honest confession.

When people state that America attacked Iran (even Americans), they are not saying that all Americans attacked Iran, even though the government that is expected to speak for the people sort of semi-okayed it. The difficulty with People of the Muslim faith, is that they are not a nation, they represent a religion that is rigid and from which [some] are radicals and tend to dominate the news about theur religion. The Muslim religion (in total) did not declare jihad against America, nor did all Muslims conspire to attack Amrerica on 9/11; but the Muslims who attacked America on 9/11 portrayed themselves as representing all of Islam, and the legacy they have left, along with the promise of (at least one) to soon see the Islamic flag flying on top of the White House, are the things that evoke fear of Muslims who advertise that they are Muslims in America.

I am tired of the constant comment that American Muslims are not vocal and active about denouncing and fighting terrorism. I have personally heard muslims denouncing terrorism and stating it is not part of their religion many times (in a public place, if you define public as speaking in front of hundreds or thousands of people. At the Eid prayer recently, in front of 3000-5000 people, the Imam denounced terrorism, and explained that it was not part of Islam. Although the press was present, they photographed the prayer, but didn't report anything about what the Imam said. They were just interested in the spectacle. If people want to hear Muslims denouncing terrorism, it is all over. However, If you get your information from the popular press, you will never hear it because it is not reported. (Muslims denouncing terrorism doesnt seem to generate much interest.) You have to listen, if you want to hear, and vegging in front of the TV or even reading newspapers selects and limits what you will hear. With respect to Juan Williams, it seems that there was alot more to the decision to fire him than just this comment. But even so, if he had made a similiar comment about Jews or Blacks, in public, there would have been similiar censorship, without all the brouhaha from the right.

I had no problem with what Williams said. Mostly because it was a person saying what he felt.

As for his failing some test, the author here has it wrong. He likens this to historical issues with Jews and Catholics. But the analogy fails. A segment of Islam is at war with this nation. 9-11 wasn't the only attempted attack -- just the most dramatic. I don't ever radical segments recall of Catholics or Jews attempting to kill thousands of innocent civilians. Recent attempts to blow up synagogues in NY (4 just Muslims convicted this week), blow up people in Times Square and attack Ft Dix. There was the deadly attack at Ft Hood and the attempt to blow up a Detroit bound plane last year at Christmas.

Of course, it isn't just a US issue. A Dutch filmaker, the London, Madrid and Bali bombings. Two US embassies in Africa and the USS Cole. Do I even need to recount the various death threats?

But to take it to another, insidious, level. The Saudi school in Northern Virginia was found using highly racist and provocative textbooks (as documented by Nina Shea a couple years ago here in WaPo). A new Islamic college has sprung up in California, the first in the US. Peaceful? Its founder recently threatened an intifida against the US Govt on a far greater scale that what has happened in the mideast.

Certainly not every Muslim is an enemy or deserves to be feared. How to differentiate? I don't know. Does anyone?

Please, if people have some level of fear associated with Muslims, maybe its just because they have been paying attention.

As for me, I am proud to be a moderate liberal, and proud of NPR, a balanced, well sourced, informative, trustworthy radio station. As for Juan Williams, when I worked for The Post many yeas ago, I recall he was "let go" for making some sexually harassing comments in the news room.

ABC reported that there are more than 200 full-body X-Ray machines at airports. What they failed to say is that the Obama Admin has excluded Muslims from going through the machines.
If an adult doesn't have insurance, he/she can be fined and possibly jailed. The Obama Admin has excluded Muslims from Obamacare.
Would someone explain what is going on?

Aziz,

It is not only non-Muslims who are uncomfortable about the burqa or traditional gowns that Muslims wear. I still remember taking my US citizenship oath. There were a number of people in the room along with me that day. One was an Egyptian Muslim. As we waited for the judge to come, some Nigerian Hausa "citizens to be" walked in wearing the traditional robes. He seemed to panic. Out of curiosity, I asked him what had happened. He pointed at the Hausa. I started laughing and told him that that was their dress, and under our constitution we are not required to dress in a particular way, and they had actually dressed in very expensive traditional apparel and were trying to honor their citizenship process. Later the process got underway and everything went through fine.

Case in point here is that people panic because of an association, even Muslims. And the issue here is not Islam, but those portions of it which are at odds with Western values. There is a separation between religion and the State, and the choice is very clear. If you are a US citizen, the US constitution and the state and not Islam come first. Muslims need to clearly state their support and commitment to this or, frankly, move to a different country. Otherwise you have situations like the Times Square bomber saying that he swore an oath of citizenship, but did not mean it. And once that starts happening, then society will obviously take a stance against Muslims in general.

Finally, Muslims need to come out in public and denounce what is happening in terms of Islamic terrorism. That will show to the general public that they actually believe in Islam being a religion of peace. Currently, unhappily, there is a very small minority in Islam that honestly seems to be moderate and aligned with Western society. The public perception is not going to change until Muslims stand up for the values of the land they live in.

"...like all of us, suffers the same bigotry that runs deep in American society, which today centers on Muslims but in the past has targeted Jews, Catholics, and pretty much everyone else" My goodness Poonface are you really that stupid? The last time I checked there was no concerted efforts by Jews, Catholics, or even the Soviets to destroy western civilization. Various Muslim entities whether it is Iran, Al-Qaeda, etc. are engaged in a self-proclaimed struggle against Jews, Christians, and the west. It ain't the other way around. But then again, if your sense of the world was obtained by listening to NPR, it's no wonder you are such a moron.

This got past the editors? "call a spade a spade?" So should this guy be fired for making a racial slur? Or will excuses be made because he and the editors didn't know that the reference to a "spade" is a derogatory term for a person of African dissent? Or have we just gone completely insane with political correctness?

"The incentive for bigotry against Muslims just increased."

Weak, and stupid to boot.

If Muslims in America were so worried about how they were being portrayed, they would stand up in a VOCAL AND ACTIVE way against Islamic terrorism. Why don't they? There seem only a few plausible answers:

1. They are afraid that if they do, they will be targeted by Muslim terrorists. (not a strong argument for your side about how we shouldn't "intelligently" generalize and say Islam has a BIG problem with terrorism. Extrapolating and intelligently generalizing is something that every human being does all over the world every minute of the day, all day long ... couldn't function otherwise)

2. They more or less agree with the Muslim terrorists.

What are the other options? In the U.S., they would be lauded as heroes if they stood up in a VOCAL AND ACTIVE way. So it doesn't seem there are many other options.

This column is a ruse, but it only fools Liberals. Poor little Muslims. Poor little Muslims. F'ing stand up for yourselves if you are feeling so put upon! 1. Either hate us and try to kill us. OR 2. Stand up for civility against the terrorist IN YOUR OWN RANKS.

Poor little Muslims.... Bullsh!t. Go back to where you came from if you don't want to take responsibility for yourself. All you'll have to do there is blame the Jews and everyone will be happy with you.

Jeez. How many sides of an issue can you take in a single blogsplat, Poonawalla?

I'm not comfortable with people who wear Muslim garb (read: women in burqas) on airplanes either. I agree with Juan Williams that it suggests that they are going out of their way to communicate that they identify themselves firstly as Muslims, when they wear religious garb that goes against the customs of the country they are in. I doubt America will go the route of France and Italy, and pass laws freeing women from the veil. But if it doesn't, these women in their ghostly shrouds are creepy, and sow discomfort.

If a woman walks down a long dark alley and sees a group of men of any race and expresses in a media outlet a fear she may have felt in that dark alley, is she a racist? No. She is simply expressing the entirely natural protective instinct that she should feel. To not have this feeling would mean that her brain is not functioning properly.

Juan WIlliams is only experiencing the same type of fear. Anyone who does not have that same fear should seek the help of a neurologist.

Well Aziz in my opinion It's a safety issue not a political or religious issue. The US government's political correctness is going to get an airplane full of people blown out of the sky. I'll gladly fly with anyone of any faith if they go with me through the airport scanners. Buddhist, Sikhs, Christians, even a Catholic nun in full habit as long as she is scanned first. So why exactly do Muslims feel that a Muslim woman in full burqa should be exempt from those scanners? If she wants to fly then treat her like everyone else. Otherwise there is always trains, autos, or boats. Is it racist to want everyone treated exactly the same? Is it racist to want anyone with long flowing garments to be searched the same as me in my jeans and t-shirts?

Well Aziz I won't fly on a plane with a woman in a burqa. It's only happened once but when I quietly discussed my concerns with the airline representative they found me another flight within the same time period. Kudos to the friendly skies for their customer service.

If Muslims are to continue to settle in Western countries, they have to come to grips that among them are those seeking our destruction. The average person isn't going to parse who and who is not a "good" Muslim any more than those in allied countries bothered to parse whether there were "good" Germans and "good" Japanese among those they were fighting. They are "naturally" suspicious of any group which contains self-proclaimed enemies.

As for NPR, it should stop being hypocritical and acknowledge it just fired Juan Williams because he wasn't spouting their party line. For those listeners who love hearing the bigoted rantings of the likes of Nina Totenberg, hang in there...

The author calls Islam the religion of peace. I have often heard that, but never seen any evidence to support it.

Cry me a river. Yours is the "religion" of the macabre. Murder inc is more like it.

There is no religion on the face of the earth which adores and worships violence and mayhem on the order of the moslem.

You worship the koran - you are part of the atrocities.

"Let us call a spade a spade". See paragraph 3. Is this some kind of a spoof? A story on Juan Williams and political correctness? Did the WP editor not know what the vernacular is for "spade"? WOW! Washington Post allows such drivel to have a forum? Did Poonawalla know that Williams is black?

"What's next? Maybe reopening the camps where we locked up our Japanese-Americans during WWII? Wouldn't they be just dandy for the Muslims among us! The Founding Fathers would be just so proud of how us true Americans are taking care of the nation they left us.

POSTED BY: FRANK_VA"

That is a brilliant suggestion and one the government should certainly investigate as to future possible dealings with the followers of the religion of peace. The Founding Fathers also believed in the notion of people as property, do you also agree with them or are you somewhat more selective?

rmahdaoui writes: "AKAFIR - I just read your second post that was directed to me. WOW! All I can say is that your general lack of knowledge of Muslims and Islam is nothing short of astounding. I will leave you to your ignorance."

Please feel free to point out exactly what I have said that is wrong about Islam. I am always happy to learn and stand corrected. I am merely showing what is being reported around the world.

rmahdaoui writes: "AKAFIR, I'm not really sure what your point is, but I think we can agree that men of all faiths have abused their wives"

The point is that you are the one who was telling us the conspiracy of the jews who are trying to get the christians and the muslims to fight each other. I am showing you that it is Islam that hates the non-muslims and the muslims in all muslim countries have laws that are hateful and discriminatory towards the non-muslims. Those sample of news should show you that the hate for the non-muslims is very widespread in the muslim countries.

As far as men abusing women goes, you are right that men of all faiths have abused their wives and still do. However, Allah of Islam religiously sanctions muslim men to beat their women if they fear rebellion from them. Islam claims that Koran is the direct word of Allah to man, and is for all time. So when UAE court rules that beating one's wife is Islamically acceptable they are merely accepting the word of Allah. I am not educated enough to tell you whether the God of the Jews and whether the God of the Christians or the God of hindus directly speaks to his followers and tells them that they can beat their wives, and that it should be part of their laws. But I do know that it is against the laws of USA, european countries, and even India and Israel to beat one's wife.

Aziz - Catholics, Jews, Hindus, Bhuddists, etc., never killed over a damn CARTOON. Hard to play up the victim card when you are perpetuating the violence.

AKAFIR - I just read your second post that was directed to me. WOW! All I can say is that your general lack of knowledge of Muslims and Islam is nothing short of astounding. I will leave you to your ignorance.

I really can't defend Williams's comments, since few terrorists have dressed in "Muslim garb" while engaging in terrorism, but I think he illustrates an America that is nervous about something but doesn't quite know what it is.

President Bush said we were not at war with Islam, and we can't make generalizations about Muslims (or anyone), and yet we are still nervous. We need to understand what our nervousness is about.

We are nervous because we don't want America to Islamicize. It's that simple. It's really not about terrorism, and it's not simply an irrational fear of the other. Even without terrorism, we see what has happened in Europe, and we don't want it here.

I understand perfectly why (some) Muslims want to spread Islam, but I don't want them to do that. I don't want to hear the muezin calling to prayer. I don't want to see veiled women walking down the street. I don't want to go to a public swimming pool and find it's closed for the afternoon for the exclusive use of Muslim women. This is my culture, and I have a right to defend it.

If this is your culture, you too have a right to defend it and its freedoms (which simply do not exist under Islam). Speak out against Islamization, and brush aside any accusations of bigotry or racism. It is neither racism nor bigotry to criticize a set of beliefs, whether they be Communism, Capitalism, or Islam.

AKAFIR, I'm not really sure what your point is, but I think we can agree that men of all faiths have abused their wives. Please read the following from "Why do Christian Husbands Abuse Their Wives?"

"Unfortunately, I have discovered through my counseling experience and research, generally Christian men become more abusive, aggressive, and greedy for power after they claim to have had a "spiritual renewal" or a "re-commitment" to Jesus."

The piece ends with this, "Let us cry out against the abuse. Let us stop covering up. Victims who are Christians often stay in abusive relationships because Scriptures, that are quoted and interpreted from the pulpit, seemingly give them no other option."

Read more here:
http://www.soencouragement.org/whyabuse.htm

a) no intelligent bomber would dress in Muslim garb and be easily identifiable as such for fear of drawing extra security and foiling their mission. This presumes that they would indeed draw extra security, which would happen because they are wearing Muslim garb.
Posted by: chucklebuck
===========================================
That is unless you are a male terrorist dressed as a woman as was the case in Afghan. yesterday. Three men equipped with vests of explosives under burqas and another man in a car equipped with a bomb. Fortunately they were discovered, not by our forces, but by the Afghans who have probably seen every trick in the book. Because of our PC indoctrination, our forces probably would not have stopped the certain devastation.

cont'd
rmahdaoui,

The July 19 slayings of Rashid and Sajjad Emmanuel were the latest in a long line of attacks on Pakistan’s religious and ethnic minorities, including Christians, Hindus, Shia Muslims, Ahmadis and Sikhs. "

Is this report from the UK Telegraph wrong?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1547313/Rise-in-radical-Islam-last-straw-for-Lebanons-Christians.html

"Christians are fleeing Lebanon to escape political and economic crises and signs that radical Islam is on the rise in the country.

In a poll to be published next month which was exclusively leaked to The Sunday Telegraph, nearly half of all Maronites, the largest Christian denomination in the country, said they were considering emigrating. Of these, nearly a third have submitted visa applications to foreign embassies. Their exodus could have a devastating effect on the country, robbing it of an influential minority which has acted as an important counter-balance to the forces of Islamic extremism."

Is this video from egypt false?
http://www.pakistan.tv/videos-christian-in-egypt-they-try-to-%5BxicHP-S5Bqg%5D.cfm
Christian in Egypt: "They Try to Kill Us" Fox news Video
"Egyptian Maher El-Gowhary and his 15 year old daughter Dina never pray twice at the same church, never stay longer than a month in any one apartment. They are constantly under threat, always on the run because they converted to Christianity in a largely Muslim country"

You boast of how many christians are converting to Islam. Tell me a single muslim country where a muslim can leave Islam without the muslims killing him? The very moderate Malaysia supreme court ruled that a muslim may never convert out of Islam.

And for your last point of honoring Jesus. Be honest. Issa of the Koran is not the Jesus of the Bible. That is merely another one of Islamic lies that your prophet Muhammad spread. You deny the christian and the jews the right to their own religion. You Koran explicitly tells you that the christians and the jews have distorted their own religions. That has to be the very definition of evil telling a people that they are not even entitled to their own beliefs and to their own myths, but have to submit to yours!!!

rmahdaoui writes:

"Its time to WAKE-UP America! Too many of our children are dying for the wrong reason and the wrong country!"

and earlier:
" Well, given the number of Christians embracing Islam of late, and the recent call from the Vatican for Israel to leave occupied Arab lands, I really don't think your strategy is working. Better try something different -

To my Christian brethen out there - given the undeniable fact that Jews absolutely deny the divinity of Jesus Christ and the Muslims hold him in great esteem and honor as the virgin born of Mary, Muslims and Christians are most nearly brothers in faith. Yet, Christians seem to have a pathological hatred of Muslims and a seemingly schizophrenic love for Jews. Go figure..."

Is he wrong that the UAE has said that it is Islamic for a man to beat his wife?
Is the following report from LA Times wrong?
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2010/07/pakistan-christian-brothers-slain-in-another-attack-on-a-minority.html
"Two brothers, members of Pakistan’s beleaguered Christian minority, walked out of the Faisalabad courthouse in shackles and escorted by a local police officer. In seconds, two gunmen opened fire on the brothers, killing them and seriously wounding the officer.

The July 19 slayings of Rashid and Sajjad Emmanuel were the latest in a long line of attacks on Pakistan’s religious and ethnic minorities, including Christians, Hindus, Shia Muslims, Ahmadis and Sikhs. "

Is this report from the UK Telegraph wrong?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1547313/Rise-in-radical-Islam-last-straw-for-Lebanons-Christians.html

Actually, Mr. Poonawalla (is that real?), the real problem is people like you, who consider the subject of placing a mosque next to Ground Zero a "banal" subject. I was completely indifferent to muslims until 9-11. Now, I consider the Nation of Islam a menace to America. Pardon me if that offends you. What offends me is that the rest of us have to put up with a bunch of lunatics who refuse to assimilate into American culture, but wish to live with the Liberty and opportunity that she provides.

And with regard to what Juan Williams said: I don't think anyone is afraid of people in muslim garb; I think the garb does two things: 1. It reminds us that we are vulnerable to a bunch of lunatics who worship the same "god" as the ones in that garb we are looking at and that makes us nervous; and, 2. It makes us wonder about, and seriously question the thought process and audacity of those wearing that garb, regarding why they are wearing that garb. They are not in the sahara, where the sun might injure them. This is America. You can cover your body without looking like a witch doctor. Unless getting attention is there purpose, of course. Do they think that alah only allows people in heaven that wear that garb? And while we are at it: what do women muslims (or is that Islamic females?) get when they go to heaven after immolating a bunch of children? Do they get forty virgin males; or must they service the male terrorists who come to heaven after them? Just asking.

What Juan Williams said is inexcusable.

He should apologize to the 4 million American Muslims.

I'm glad NPR fired his a$$.

Posted by JDP:

"The latest example of their peaceful religion is a ruling by the Supreme Court of the UAE allowing beating by men of their wives and children. The court claims that this is allowed under Islamic law. Hard to find this news in the Post or NY Times, since it sends a negative image about Muslims!"
___________________________________________

See what I mean about the posts coming out of Tel Aviv? With all the negative comments about Islam and Muslims in the press during the past decade since 911, only a planted and paid Zionist cyber-shrill would insinuated that nothing negative about Muslims is tolerated in the media. But, ask yourself, when was the late time you read, heard, or saw something negative about Israel and Jews in our so-called "free" press?

Its time to WAKE-UP America! Too many of our children are dying for the wrong reason and the wrong country!

...the Mafia would do that as well and I'm sure that at least one Muslim cleric has issued a fatwa against Williams. Maybe NPR can assist in those efforts.

...really NPR should engage in a widescale takeover of media sites, establish both horizontal and vertical monopolies and fire anyone who even begins to agree with what Williams said or support his employment as a journalist, employing lie-detector tests as necessary and encouraging coworkers to rat on their fellow employees. After all that's what Rupert Murdoch would do.

And just to make this clear: the fact that some other company would have fired him for what he said (which we all have to admit is true) does not justify, rationalize or excuse

***NPR***

firing him for what he said.

People fall prey to that logic in courtrooms across America on a daily basis. Why is it being used now?

Because the media is attempting to hide behind "groupthink". They hypocritically chastise him for speaking ill against Muslims as a whole while using "common corporate behavior" as an excuse. Logically we expect them to justify union-busting and outsourcing, probably child-labor, waste-dumping, sexual-harassment, insider-trading and government bribes as well, because other companies engage in the same activities.

here is the simple issue

If I had a history of bombing airliners and I somehow manged to get on a plane and someone recognized me, they would have a legitimate reason to worry that I was carrying a bomb. If they said, "when they see me get on a plane, they worry, they can't help it" no one would question this or denigrate it on any rational basis.

Somehow, when people who identify themselves as Muslims bomb planes and defend it on religious grounds, and then other people who practice the same religion and identify themselves as Muslims openly get on planes, and a guy who knows all of this sees them get on a plane and feels fear and says this on TV, that's a problem.

Let's examine why.

a) no intelligent bomber would dress in Muslim garb and be easily identifiable as such for fear of drawing extra security and foiling their mission. This presumes that they would indeed draw extra security, which would happen because they are wearing Muslim garb. So obviously our government would use that as a legitimate justification to perform extra checks but in any case they might, as has happened, slip a bomb on a plane anyway. Yet somehow it is "irrational" and "bigoted" for this man to fear them.

That's patent nonsense.

b) "we realize that he has a right to feel that way but to SAY it is wrong". Because in 2010 to express ones' fears is bad.

That's patent nonsense.

c) "it's wrong because he's a journalist for NPR. It would be ok if he said it as a Fox journalist or any other journalist but not tolerable as an *NPR* journalist".

That's not even worth discussing.

None of those reasons make an iota of sense.

Then in response to what he said despite the totally rational basis of it and the perfect sense of it he's fired, which, somehow, isn't an "irational, bigoted" reaction by their same logic.

That's what this all boils down to.

Their logic doesn't make sense in either direction, yet here they are arguing it time and time again. What is happening here is that the media punditry itself is discrediting itself...yet I don't see any of them being fired for issuing their OPINIONS on this news story. So by extension the media ITSELF is discrediting itself. Every time some media pundit tries to justify this firing, every time NPR management tries to justify this firing, they discredit themselves. And they don't have a problem with this.

And that's fine. It's just icing on the cake.

Muslims always want to play the victim card, claiming theirs is a peaceful religion. They are ready to take offense, however, they are silent on the acts of violence committed in their name.

The latest example of their peaceful religion is a ruling by the Supreme Court of the UAE allowing beating by men of their wives and children. The court claims that this is allowed under Islamic law. Hard to find this news in the Post or NY Times, since it sends a negative image about Muslims! I do not see Muslims condemning actions how this. However, they are ready to get excited about what Juan Williams says!

Garak writes: "@ akafir: Jews hate goys. Jews think goys exist to serve them."

Allah commands the Muslims to hate the non-muslims and they do all over the world. They make hateful laws against the non-muslims. And your logic is that because a leader of the jews says (you provide no links to verify anything or see the full speech to judge whether you lie or not) non-jews exist to serve the jews that one should ignore the hatred that Islam has for the non-muslims? Allah spends one third of his final message to mankind, the Koran, ranting against the jews. Is it any surprise that your logic would be to justify the barbarity of Islam against the non-muslims by trying to show that the jews hate the non-jews?

The suggestion that Juan Williams is a bigot is patently ridiculous...the writer has strained reason to arrive at that conclusion. You must judge a man by the full context of his remarks AND the full context of his life.

If Juan is a bigot, than 90% of us are bigots.

Spare us the usual muslim conspiracy theories. It is muslims not Zionists who are responsible for islam's shabby reputation in the world. It is muslims who are attacking Christian churches in Nigeria, Egypt and "moderate" Indonesia. It is also muslims who do not allow the free practice of religion in islamic countries.In contrast freedom of religion for Jews, Christians and muslims is allowed in Israel.It is not Zionists putting muslims at the throats of Christians it is the teachings of islam.

As for Juan Williams comments about muslims in airports, he was reflecting the feelings of millions of people worldwide.

9/11 was the result of conservatards and evangelical christians (W ring a bell?) falling asleep on the job and aiding and abetting al Qaeda. Conservartards and evangelical christians thus are fair game. Ratholes like ED1844 and Juan Williams aid and abet al Qaeda by doing bin Laden's dirty work for him, stirring up religious hatred. They are bin Laden's useful idiots.

Osama bin Laden and the rest of al Qaeda would like to thank ED1844 and Juan Williams for their help. They truly are USEFUL IDIOTS.

@ akafir: Jews hate goys. Jews think goys exist to serve them.

"In a sermon given on Saturday on laws concerning what non-Jews are permitted to do on Shabbat, [Rabbi Oveida] Yosef said: "Goyim [non-Jews] were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world – only to serve the People of Israel."

"Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat."

According to Yosef, death has "no dominion" over non-Jews in Israel. "With gentiles, it will be like any person - they need to die, but [God] will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant... That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew.”

He is the leader of the only really Jewish party in Israel, Shas. He is THE kingmaker in Israeli politics. Jews all over the world heed his call.

Now you see where Hitler got his ideas about racial superiority. They came straight from Judaism. Judaism says goys are Untermenschen who occupy Jewish Lebensraum. We exist only as slaves for the master race of Bernie Madoffs.

So Muslim hate-mongers plan and execute the 9/11 attacks, raising their status among jihadists and leaving thousands dead, mostly Americans. And now the hate-mongers on our side are exploiting our resulting fear and anger, raising their ratings, clicks, bank accounts, and credentials as "true patriots". And what do the rest of us do? Follow along mindlessly like a flock of bleating sheep, rushing to . . . what?

What's next? Maybe reopening the camps where we locked up our Japanese-Americans during WWII? Wouldn't they be just dandy for the Muslims among us! The Founding Fathers would be just so proud of how us true Americans are taking care of the nation they left us.

Poonawalla has contrived an intellectually tortured path to the ridiculous conclusion that NPR has the "moral high ground" in this episode. All those innocent "Muslims in the middle" would be less victimized if they did not insist upon being the most silent minority in society. Poonawalla is right about one thing though: the political correctness mindset, once merely silly, has become dangerous to our society.

Mr. Poonawalla -

You say that Mr. Williams' fear is "bigoted"? I would have thought that "bigoted" fear is based on hatred rather than on empirical facts, yes?

In that regard, I consider the following empirical facts relevant: the recent bombings in Kampala; the the Times Square bomber; the the nightclub bombing in Bali; the train bombings in Madrid; the underwear bomber; the subway bombing in London; the airport bombing in Rome; the hundreds of bombings in Baghdad (against fellow muslims); the setting on fire of the hotel full of guests in Mumbai; the shootings at Fort Hood; the Khobar Towers bombing; the bombing of the US embassy in Nairobi; the US Embassy bombing in Dar es Salam; the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut; the bombing of Pam Am 103; the World Trade Center; the massacre at the 1968 Olympics; the murder of the elderly cripple on the Archilles Laurel; the shoe bomber; the beheading of the totally innocent reporter Daniel Pearl; the several bombings of Israeli school buses; the slaughter of 300 school children in Beslan, Chechnya; the van Gogh murder in Amsterdam; the countless airline hijackings over the years; the recent bombing of CIA officers in Afghanistan; the bombing of the USS Cole ... etc, etc, etc.

But then ... as a liberal Black American ... perhaps Mr. Williams IS a bigot, and the foregoing facts are ... well ... irrelevant ... yes ??

I see the paid Israeli-Firsters and Zionists cyber-shrills are making the most of this topic. From the tone and tenor of many posts here, its clear that they are coming directly out of Tel Aviv. You guys and gals will do just about anything to pit unsuspecting Christians and Muslims at each other's throats.

Well, given the number of Christians embracing Islam of late, and the recent call from the Vatican for Israel to leave occupied Arab lands, I really don't think your strategy is working. Better try something different -

To my Christian brethen out there - given the undeniable fact that Jews absolutely deny the divinity of Jesus Christ and the Muslims hold him in great esteem and honor as the virgin born of Mary, Muslims and Christians are most nearly brothers in faith. Yet, Christians seem to have a pathological hatred of Muslims and a seemingly schizophrenic love for Jews. Go figure...

In Bosnia number of muslim killed at around 100,000–110,000 and 1.8 million displaced and women raped.

Millions of Palestinian muslim displanced and thousand killed since 1948 and estimated 5,144 Palestinians (including 952 children) have been killed since September 2000

In Iraq 285,000 casualties were recorded, including at least 109,032 violent deaths. As we all know thousand of muslim women raped.

More than 50,000 Afghans muslim died in Afganistan so far.

While no Poonawalla contributed to the founding and building of America, the Poonawallas are certainly contributing to its demise: not the kind of immigrant America needs. As an example of Mr. Poonawalla's political astuteness is his remark about the planned Ground Zero victory mosque as "fundamentally a local community issue." Is Mr. Pooonawalla aware that 9/11 was an attack on America, not an attack just on the "local community" of Manhattan's old Third Ward, and therefore all of America has the right to a say-so on what happens there! As for the rest of the pro-Muslim leftists, six centuries before Christ, the Chinese military scholar Sun Tzu warned that you must "know your enemy" or you are doomed.

Desi Hungama (that is South Asian Noise) writes:
"Koran is essentially a translation of Old and New Testaments"

That is a lie. Koran takes a few of the myths of the jews and the christians and distorts them. About one third of the Koran is Allah ranting against the jews. Then there is a lot of Allah threatening horrible torture if he is not obeyed and outright hatred for the "mushrikun" (those who associate someone with Allah) and orders to kill them and wipe them out. The rest is justifying the power that Muhammad was accumulating and abusing. There are even verses justifying Muhammad marrying his adopted son's wife, or trying to sneak off to see another wife when he was supposed to be with some one else. Calling that grotesque nonsense translation of the old and new testament is absurd.

This article just explained clearly why government funds should not go to NPR (nor FOX or any other media outlet). They represent a liberal (and limited speech) position and no one group of opinions deserves to be supported by a government who should be neutral towards Religion and speech.

Nothing bigoted about either Mr. Williams' or my personal fear moron.

Had it been the Southern Baptist or UMC who ordered their followers "to carry out acts of individual jihad," I would be just as vigilant, as I believe Mr. Williams would be.

Because the Muslims' laws are so co-mingled with their beliefs and ideaology, such discrimination is not based upon a religion as we know them domestically, but purely as a foreign sect acting out their hatred for Americans. No different than we perceived the Japanese, or the (German) Nazis during WW II. Do you also consider that bigoted?

amelia45 | October 23, 2010 12:07 PM writes: "The ones who actually harmed us includes a few hundred, or a few thousand or tens of thousands, but it does not include the 1 billion+ Muslims of the world."

Is it legitimate to ask what is the ideology that drives those "few" that seek to harm us? What do they say in their own words? Is it legitimate to look around the world and see how much harm is being done by the same ideology but not by the same few but what is identified as "their" common enemy .. the kafirs, the non-muslims? Or is that too much of truth to accept without yelling bigotry?

"have to fear the U.S. which has invaded, bombed, supported sanctions against, supported quasi dictatorships in, or crossed the borders without permission of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, and other Islamic African nations, Afghanistan, Pakistan, what others?"

And why has the US done that?

Let us call a spade a spade, and let us call a spook a spook, says Aziz the Muslim America-hating dog.

marioliggi,

After you have enjoyed your self flagellation and humiliation, can you tell why the horrible things that the church did hundreds of years ago has any relevance to the killings, and beheadings, and burning alive of humans today that is being done by the followers of Muhammad? Does the wrongs of the christians and the bible makes the evil of the Koran any more acceptable? Or is it necessary by your logic that nothing can be said about the Koran and the muslims without first spending hours berating christians and the bible?

powellsanmiguel: "People should feel something about groups that are trying to kill them. I wouldn't call it bias, more like fear and dread. And saying that all Moslems are not trying to kill us doesn't make me feel much better."

You are probably correct. But the reason there is a thing called justice in the world is because we are supposed to hate and fear those who have harmed us or will harm us, not the nebulous "they". The ones who actually harmed us includes a few hundred, or a few thousand or tens of thousands, but it does not include the 1 billion+ Muslims of the world. We diffuse our fear onto anyone who looks Muslim because a few committed an act of mass murder.

If such diffusion of hate and fear is justification, consider how much more the 1 billion+ Muslims have to fear the U.S. which has invaded, bombed, supported sanctions against, supported quasi dictatorships in, or crossed the borders without permission of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Egypt, Tunisia, and other Islamic African nations, Afghanistan, Pakistan, what others?

As for the Juan Williams situation, I also have suspected there was a Foxite hiding within him. Still, I wonder if there was a teachable moment here, where Juan could actually have helped us all talk about our feelings of fear of the nebulous "them" and our fear of bigotry, and how both feelings occur within us at the same time.

Juan will never have that conversation as a part of Fox.

Aziz,

It is undeniable that Islam hates non-muslims. All muslim countries have laws on their books that are hateful and discriminatory towards their non-muslim minorities. Has that ever bothered you? Have you ever protested such hate towards the Kafirs that is imbedded in Islam and muslims around the world? While Juan Williams was being fired by NPR and you, and Keith Ellison calling him a bigot, couple of christians were being killed in Pakistan for just being christians.
Kafirs were burnt alive recently in Pakistan and in Sudan. Did what your co-religionist were doing in the name of your religion ever rise to your level of awarness?
Muslims Burn Christians Alive In Pakistan Video
http://www.pakistan.tv/videos-muslims-burn-christians-alive-in-pakistan-%5BhSrpf5vRyuM%5D.cfm
or
Non-Muslims Burned Alive & Mutilated by islamic radicals Video
http://www.pakistan.tv/videos-non-muslims-burned-alive-mutilated-by-%5BLQpj2bFM7s0%5D.cfm
or 500 christians being burned in Nigeria
http://www.pakistan.tv/videos-muslims-murder-christians-in-nigeria-%5BKX-ysO2fsJM%5D.cfm

What Juan Williams said and did is not bigotry. Kafirs would be out of their minds not to be afraid of the hatred that is in your religion, in your Koran, and in the life and example of your prophet Muhammad for them and for their kids and for their grandkids.

Unlike most posters over here, I am not a religious expert.So I iwll start with the prevailing common wisdom:Qoran is bad,Bible is good.
Great: now we need to fix the hystorical misconceptions.the Jews of Spain were not forced to convert or get killed by the Church in Spain,the Jesuit priests did respect and preserve the faiths of native Americans, the marching German Christian soldiers did not nearly exterminate the Jews, the Jews of Europe did not feel the need to create a nation of their own and they have never been the subject of persecutions pogroms and second class status in Christian Europe, the Crusaders did not kill 70,000 muslim and Jew when they captured Jerusalem, years later, the muslims did not allow the crusaders to leave when they captured Jerusalem back, and after 1400 years of Islamic dominance in the middle east there are no Christians left except for the followers of the Maronite Church, the eastern Cathoilc seat, the easter Orthodox Church, the Cobtic church, both catholic and Orthodox Armenian Churches, the Assyrian and Caldanian Churches etc.
But hey, facts mean nothing, demagogery is everything

Someonere here commented killing the infedil is written in Koran. LOL..1. Koran is essentially a translation of Old and New Testaments. 2. Christians and Jews are NOT considered infedils. Only the idol worshippers are. Now, how a Muslim dresses that gives goose bumps to Juan? He should probably visit Southeast Washington DC at 3 in the morning. In Iran/Iraq, Muslim dresses in Pant suit. In Malaysia/Indonesia, an an oriental. In India/Pak/Afg/Bangladesh, a Muslim dresses like their 1 billion hindus brother dresses. Juan, I feel you. I also get goose bumps when I see a redneck on US Airways. As far as me, I hardly like putting clothes on.

The media's fear of muslims is palpable. When has Islam been attacked as a psychological disorder like Christianity is everyday. Is it Islamophobism, cowardice, or just hypocrisy?

Muslims who feel caught in the middle and victimized at every turn need to look in the mirror. How is that? Are you sure you are entirely "moderate"? Are you sure you have no sympathy for your jihadis?

Most Americans are not sure at all about how you feel. So, is that all our fault? We are all bigots, right?

Juan Williams gave his honest opinion and the US Constitution grants him that right.
Anyone disagreeing should have their citizenship reviewed for allegiance to the US Constitution.

Treason trials seems to be the wave of the newly elected to pass and enforce ONE FLAG ONE ALLEGIANCE like the majority appears to want.

Packing it up and getting out ahead of that ONE FLAG ONE ALLEGIANCE movement might be Poonawalla's best option.

NPR's sanctimonious, more PC than thou attitude is going to cost it, big time $$$$.

So the author of "Eyes on the Prize" isn't PC enough for you? Look, I have never voted for a Republican in my life, over 40 years of voting, I'm a leftist and this firing is ridiculous. NPR needs to be able to allow people to talk about what scares them. That is ok.

And, to be clear, If Juan Williams joins the goon squad at Fox, he will have destroyed a career that had great potential beyond punditry, no kidding. This is all sad.

As an American, I am ashamed of the anti-Muslim comments here. They do not represent America or Americans. They are un-American.

And here I was always fearing to get on US airlines not because of "Muslim garb" but really bad service, being used to the world's top ten best airlines like Qatar, Etihad, Emirated, Malaysia Airlines...

First of all how can anyone not like a person named Aziz H. Poonawalla? One can't.

But the bias business is another thing. People should feel something about groups that are trying to kill them. I wouldn't call it bias, more like fear and dread. And saying that all Moslems are not trying to kill us doesn't make me feel much better. The dancing thousands in Moslem countries around the world after 911 didn't help either.

As for Mr. Williams, what if this was a setup to gain publicity for the new job at Fox? He got hired in hours, perhaps the whole shebang was to make him the darling of the Right.

Killing the infidel is one of koran's main precepts. NPR knows that. CAIR knows that. NPR is CAIRradio.

Let’s cut the crap. The cowards in the media are afraid to offend the muzywuzy cause they might cut their heads off. All this PC nonsense is just a smoke screen so they won’t look like a bunch of chickens. That’s ok children, you just hide and watch the Marines take care of the enemy you are too afraid to even name.

maybe you can find answers here:

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ReadtheKoran: Students of the Koran report there are 109 open ended statements supporting violence. I have read many of them. Virtually all the violence in the Judeo-Christian bible is in a historical context of events, not as open ended directives as in the Koran.
Also,the book contravenes our human rights laws. Women are made second class citizens. What other mainstream religion today has suicide bombers? The US should deny Islam as a legitimate religion until it reforms, replaces the old Koran as doctrine and separates it from any political context. Sadly, there are many good Muslims caught in the middle of this dilemma. Religious war is not the answer. There needs to be informed national and international debate on how to help bring Islam into the 21st Century. Only Muslims can solve the problem. The Juan Williams issue is in part a demonstration of how harmful and misguided political correctness can be when in the hands of politically driven zealots like NPR management.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/TheList.htm estimates that there have been 16,264 Muslim terrorist attacks worldwide since 9/11, the figure drawn from news sources. This is obviously incomplete, since not all incidents are picked up by the media. What is clear is that these incidents were committed by Muslims, not Christians or Jews, but Muslims. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.

This is getting out of hand. A woman advertised looking for a "Christian Roomate" to share an apartment. She is being brought up on charges under Federal Laws against discrimination. What happened to our freedom of speech? What happened to our ability to choose who we want to share our home with?
If she had advertised for a woman room mate would that have have violated some law against gender discrimination?

What is going on in America? Left wing political correctness leading to the stifling of freedom of speech.

NPR shot themselves in the foot which was in their mouth at the time. Senate bills are being introduced to take taxpayer funding away. They are hypocrites that have put on many that vilify and ridicule Republicans. What Juan Williams said he experiences at airports when people wearing full Muslim garb are flying is what most non-Muslims would say if they were telling the truth. Juan Williams has credentials that prove he is not a bigot or an Islamophobic. This is all about NPR's hatred of Fox News. This attack on Fox News will cost NPR big time in funds and credibility. They have awakened a sleeping giant here.

So Aziz, why aren't you getting fired already for your "Let's call a spade a spade" comment? ;)

When someone gets up and engages in bigotry on behalf of Christians, there is a loud uproar by Christians to rebuke that hypocrite. When someone gets up and engages in bigotry on behalf of Islam, they become a folk hero. Where is the anger at Osama bin Laden in the Arab world? Why isn't the Saudi Army looking for this SOB? Instead, they're sending him money.

Both Islam and Christianity have a goal of spreading their faith to every corner of the earth. Christianity does this peacefully (the Crusades ended 1000 years ago so don't bring that up). Islam does it with violence that Muslims don't condemn.

So, ultimately this entire article is specious. Muslims are no more "caught in the crossfire" than Jews are.

The British established Israel for a reason. For the *SAME* reason any Muslim who seriously feels "oppressed" in the US has an easy answer. Move to a Muslim nation. Your brothers will accept you with open arms.

The problem is when you want to be Islamic in a non-Islamic nation. Then you are asking for trouble, by definition. Your own religion orders you to attack and destroy nonbelievers in your mist, to the best of your ability. Here in the US that is a crime. Move somewhere that it is *not* a crime and you have no problem.

The fact that non-Muslims will still feel fear in the presence of Muslims is then *their* problem not yours.

You either speak out against terrorism or you are for terrorism. Those "moderate" Muslims who sit on the sidelines and don't speak out are anything but "moderate." They are terrorist sympathizers. They are closet-terrorists - either silently or not-so silently cheering for the destruction of America.

...the simple truth is that Juan Williams is a Muslim apologist. If anything NPR should have been glad that he was willing to go on Fox and preach restraint and non-prejudice towards Muslims.

Which really doesn't make sense. A spade is a spade. How can you really call yourself a Muslim and not support the killing of non-Muslims when it's a fundamental tenet of your religion?

We did not have people like the Ft. Hood shooter and the Times Square bomber pop out of American society, successful, intelligent hardworking American citizens, becasue Islam does not promote violence against non-Islamics, because Islam is truly a peaceful religion. It's simply not. The "bigotry" here if anything is that non-Islamics shouldn't be afraid of Islamics.

Should they not be afraid of mass-murders & suicide-bombers simply because they profess to be Christian? If you got on a plane with a T-shirt identifying yourself as a mass-murderer, wouldn't you expect people to be afraid of you, to feel fear at your presence?

How can you rationally expect it to be any different if you get on a plane in Muslim garb?

As long as that denial continues, this issue will continue. As long as the solution to it is to label those who think that way as "bigots", this will continue to be an issue.

Im not getting off the plane because of a handful of Muslims, but if I had a choice of riding with or without it would always be without. You never know who the covert could be, thats not racism or discrimination its common sense.
This religion is suspect to radicalism and crazy's based on the required methodology of praying, memorizing the Koran and not associating with anyone whos not Muslim.

Anyone who denies this is irrational or in denial.

Muslims are caught in the crossfire because unlike Christianity their religion exhorts the faithful to destroy non-Muslims.

Whereas Christianity is based on the tenet that the meek shall inherit the earth, and that a good Christian forgives the sins of others.

There is no accident here, no bigotry. It's a fundamental tenet of the Islamic religion that is just popping up time and time again. Very similar to the problem resulting from the Jewish position that Jews are the Chosen People.

Christians who engage in violence, any sort of violence, whether against non-Christians or professed Christians, are *not* practicing Christianity. Muslims who engage in violence against non-Muslims *are* practicing Islam.

NPR is simply sticking fingers in their ears and pasting blinders over their eyes. Williams simply told the truth. That is the problem here.

Muslims are only "caught in the middle" because they are sitting on the fence. Either LOUDLY denounce those committing violence from within your Mosque's or, get caught in the cross fire that WILL result.

Pretty simple.

As a "liberal", I think it's ridiculous that people are not allowed to express their feelings in public if it's not an incitement. I can't believe this guy was fired over sharing a feeling. Ridiculous.

Hooray for Fox News

aziz poonawalla? you cannot get more third world than that.
I despise muslims. I would have no problem at all if they were all immediately beheaded. Today.

The real bigots here are at NPR. These little piggies should be removed from the government tax trough.

Aziz H. Poonawalla you are an idiotic!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Muslims are very much like hostages
being held literally (not even remotely
figuratively) at gun-point: Any Muslim
who leaves Islam is under sentence of
death, and even parents and children
are expected to carry out this horrifically
barbaric sentence (and have in many,
many documented cases).

Most unfortunate of all, most Muslims
are as psychologically confused about
their status as those kidnap victims who
begin to sympathize with their kidnappers
and actualy work AGAINST their liberation
--Were that not the case there would
surely be very many fewer Muslims in
this world now... threatening to butcher
other Muslims who wish to leave Islam.

What the civilized world ought to do is
take seriously the Mafia-like nature of
Islam and institute measures to safeguard
Muslims who wish to free themselves
from the criminal enterprise that is Islam.
Instead of completely ignoring the problem,
which is exactly what the world does now
with very few exceptions for extremely
prominent people like Salman Rushdie
and other well-known Muslim celebrities.

S D Rodrian
http://verseplace.com

.

Aziz,
I'll be up all night wating for your reply to DAVE 19 / October 22, 2010 6:10 PM.
Aziz, why it take you so long?

What constitutes Muslim Garb?

Were not all the terrorists on 9/11 wearing western clothes and apparel?

What do I think?

I think all muslims ought to pack up their belongings and get the hell out of our country. As has happened in every other country that has allowed itself to become infested with these swine, we'll eventually face tens of millions of rabid muslims that want to impose their backward, violent and murderous way of life on us.

Eventually I'm afraid, we'll have either a revolution or a civil war with the muslims right in the middle.

Typical of their hypocritical Abrahamic religion cousins, Muslims want to play the victim in public while high-fiving each other over the victories of their murderous terrorists.

I saw this on 9/11 when my Muslim co-workers cringed in fear and asked for protection after they secretly high-fived each other when they thought no one was looking. I was looking.

When I had a business in Colorado Springs, I feared dealing with those with a fish on their minivan or business card based on a history of non-payment for services rendered and uncompromising negotiations if something went wrong.

The difference is I didn't go around broadcasting this fear.

what do i think? i think the muslims in this country had better really go after the wack-jobs that are actually fulfilling islam's directives. this isn't france or england. cut lose on us in our streets like has happened overseas and it won't be pretty.

your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

uppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Tell us again, how your religion is better than the muslim's religion.

Let's just dump religion altogether, how about that?

Is this commentary a joke? It certainly is an intellectual joke as there is no intellectual integrity in the logic this author uses.

Let's be honest. People can feel vulnerable on an airplane--many fear flying itself. No, let's be honest: everyone fears flying. Are we then bigoted against airplanes? Hardly, we just know that airplanes sometimes fall out of the sky. Sometimes the engines quit, sometimes the wings or tail falls off. But they fall and people die. Admit it, you have felt fear on an airplane.

And then we all know that terrorists used planes to murder people on 9/11. We also know that other terrorists have been captured after trying to blow up an airplane--the shoe bomber, the guy in the seat who was stopped by a Swedish passenger.

So this illogical commentator is trying to say--OK, forget what's happened. Don't worry about the fact that Muslims have both succeeded and continue to try to blow up airplanes. Just get on the airplane and think nothing of it.

This is not just illogical, this kind of reasoning is simpleminded. It's irresponsible. It's non vigilant. The only thing dumber than this commentary is publishing it without publishing an opposing viewpoint beside it. Almost anyone with a brain could have written that.

Well, Aziz tries to blow off Juan Williams fear of Muslims with this comment:

"For Muslims, that historical, reactive bigotry is amplified by the tragedy of 9-11, which makes it our responsibility to be patient, to work harder, to show ourselves by our deeds to be different from the other with whom we still are at war."

First of all Americans started learning about the violence Muslims are capable of when they first blew up the Marine Barracks in Lebanon, then when they tried to blow up, from basement parking the World Trade center the FIRST time. Then they blew up the US Air Force Barracks in Saudi Arabia. Then they blew up TWO American Embassies in Africa. And THEN the attacked the Cole - all this before 9/11. Patience? WHAT PATIENCE?

Only from a bunch of 'radical' Muslims? Well tell me how YOU account for these clear cut Commandments below in the Koran to ALL Muslims! The BASIC Islamic message to ALL Muslims is to either Convert all the Infidels (everyone on earth who is not Muslim) or KILL them.

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender,

Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."

Well, if 'unease' among Muslims is bigotry. as Juan Williams expressed it call ME a bigot. For I am bigoted against ALL MY ENEMIES and I have NO reason to believe that ONLY a handful of 'extremists' believe in the Koran and its Commandments. For I also have yet to see ANY wholesale REJECTION OF THE CALLS TO VIOLENCE AGAINST ME AND COMMANDMENTS OF THE KORAN by the majority of Muslims OR their Imams.

It is up to THEM to change, not ME!

JUAN WILLIAMS is NOT a BIGOT. Get that !

This isn't a matter of political correctness or free speech. This all boils down to one person acting outside of the agreement they entered into with their empoyer when they were hired in order to keep their job. He was a news analyst, hired to analyze the news, NOT give his opinion. If he wants to give his opinion, he needs to get another job. If you are a federal worker and want to run for political office as a democrat or republican - get a new job. If you are a CPA who prepares tax returns for clients but want to buy stock in them - get a new job.

I agree that it's unfortunate that Williams was fired now as there was ample reason to fire him in the past. Now it just looks like he's being fired for this one incident and that it's entirely a case of "political correctness" on the part of NPR rather than for a string of unfortunate and careless remarks.

I have a fear of large groups of young men who are dressed a certain way. And occasionally when I see them I cross the street so I don't have to walk among or thru them. When I thought about it, initially, I thought my fear only applied to young black men or young hispanic men, but then I realized I've had that general sense of unease with young caucasian men as well. So, I guess that makes me a bigoted homophobe? or maybe bigoted against youth? Actually, I'm just a woman who has probably read too many news reports.

Am I afraid of flying with young Muslim men? No I'm not, but I have a full-blown negative reaction to Muslim women who are wearing hijab. Not because I'm afraid of them but because I feel they're showing subservience to Muslim men and that annoys me a lot! (I know Muslims will tell me that's not correct; they're showing respect to God but my heartfelt belief is that God doesn't require a particular manner of dress - Muslim men do.)

All of us have fears and prejudices. I guess we just have to be aware of our own personal ones and try to either keep them to ourselves or be careful of the context in which we state them. I don't have a public forum, thus I only state my fears and feelings to my husband. Juan Williams is a public communicator and thus should have been more circumspect.

Mr. Poonawalla, methinks, carries this too far when he says that the incentive for bigotry against Muslims just increased.

It's not clear to me that Whine Williams' comments were bigoted - as distinguished from a confession of having fear which, of course, is instilled by stereotyping and, therefore, a product of bigotry.

Should Fux Newz have signed him to a contract? Hey, it's a business decision and as Roger Ailes said, they are in the ratings business. This will likely help as it will rally thousands of right wing yahoos to Whine's cause because it is an anti-NPR position.

The comment about Michelle Obama was more stupid than anything - besides it's opinion, so who cares?

The real problem that Mr. Poonawalla, and the rest of us do not address - and "the rest of us" includes Muslims (I'm not) is that all of us, including Muslims allow terrorist activity to be identified as "Islamic" or "Muslim" instead of just terrorism committed by people claiming a religious mantle.

Until we are all ready to say that this sort of thing has nothing to do with religion, i.e., it is not protected First Amendment activity, we will never lose our sensitivity to being criticized for sounding anti-Muslim because we condemn terrorism.

There is no reason why someone should fear a person in Muslim garb but for the fact that we all have allowed Islam to be equated with terrorism -- what a tragedy.

It's not too late to reverse that process. This is not the obligation of Muslims alone, but of all of us.

Pro-Israel biased media pushing such against Muslims:

http:// www.tinyurl.com/proisraelbiasedmedia

‘US pro-Israel bias demonizing Islam’

http://america-hijacked.com/2010/09/11/us-pro-israel-bias-demonizing-islam/

Pro-Israel biased US media mentioned as well in following segment about double standard with Israeli nukes:

Israeli nuke double standard:

http://tinyurl.com/israelinukedoublestandard

Pro-Israel biased media pushing such against Muslims:

www.tinyurl.com/proisraelbiasedmedia

Pro-Israel biased US media mentioned as well in following segment about double standard with Israeli nukes:

Israeli nuke double standard:

http://tinyurl.com/israelinukedoublestandard

Pro-Israel biased media pushing such against Muslims:

www.tinyurl.com/proisraelbiasedmed

Yes, we know. Muslims get caught in the middle but you are responsible for nothing.

Azziz says.."The action by NPR serves a narrative that liberals and Muslims are engaged in a grand conspiracy of censorship against voices that are trying to sound an alarm about an omnipresent threat to freedom from Islam."

Your conclusions are not consistent with the NPR's own reporting of Juan and his repeated lapse of corporate policy, regarding using his position at NPR as some sounding board for his personal agenda, not political correctness, as you assert.

Fear! Fear of Islam, Christianity, Catholicism, Hinduism, all come from within and not from others. Face the Fears and overcome the fears instead of blaming others for being whom they are.

I think you are in the process of developing a conspiracy theory against Islam and Liberals.

Political correctness is a mandatory obligation of all those who believe in the liberal cause. Juan violated this cardinal rule at National Socialist Radio. When there is only one truth, there can be no valid dissent, after all the truth is the truth, and how can anyone in good faith argue with the truth. Those who might unfortunately think incorrect thoughts need to have the discipline, fortitude and good sense not to articulate them in a place where anyone else might hear them. Of course, figuring out just what may be politically incorrect to say today, and fear of the consequences, should serve as a sufficient impediment to prevent liberals from thinking at all, and maybe that explains this mindless episode.

RULE 1: Those who do inadvertently say something, or are tempted to say something, that is not politically correct need to take Vivian Schiller’s advice and see a psychiatrist or publicists, otherwise they will end up in a mental hospital or a re-education camp, or at Fox News.

NPR belongs to the liberals and always has, it makes them feel good. They should be allowed to do whatever they want with it, and causing it to be a purveyor only of information that pleases liberals is fine with me, but the rest of us should not be required to pay for it. I have little sympathy for Juan since I have always considered him to be an annoying liberal anyway, and letting the liberals eat their own is a good thing.

And, no one should stand on the principal of journalistic freedom or free speech or the right to articulate your thoughts in an open debate without fear of them being taken out of context used to fire you, none or those things are politically correct today, SEE RULE 1, above.

Political correctness is no virtue if it prevents us from confronting hard issues with each other and (more importantly) within ourselvs. Politically correct "playing nicely with others" does no one any favors if it postpones a debate that needs to take place. Of course, my saying so doesn't mean I want to give the merest wink of approval for hate speech, either. Civility in discourse ought to be a given; sadly, it is not.

To the extent that Williams's "confession" was an admission that we all have to confront our fears and that some of those fears may be justified and while some are decidedly not, then I can support him. But my sympathy for Williams ends, however, at that point where he ends up condoning the execrable hate-screeds of the odious Bill O'Reilly, even if by failure to make an appropriately determined push-back against them.

Williams may have some grounds in proclaiming himself the current poster-child victim of political correctness, but he shouldn't be proud at all that he is now utterly in the thrall of Bull O'Reilly (typo deliberate). Of course, he'll likely be crying all the way to the bank, but I guess that's another story.

I agree ! Political Correctness does as much harm towards ill feelings towards our fellow man as it does to bring us together; especially when people feel they are suppressed for fear of retribution for voicing their personal opinions. I don't agree with Juan Williams on most topics but I agree with the premise on this one topic.