JUNGLEJIM123 says, “There is no mention of gays in the 10 Commandments ... “

I believe a good case can be made for the proposition that the condition of homosexual enslavement breaks all Ten of the Commandments.

There is no mention of gays in the 10 Commandments - the true words of God..but there are other sins listed that many of you do on a daily basis. ... dishonor your mothers and fathers, tell falsehoods and lies, commit adultery, have abortions etc .....so I dont think God is going to cast into hell two people who love each other and have faith in God as many gays do.

VisionFromAfar says, "If you want to say more than a single comment will let you, get your own blog, don't clog up the comments here."

The idea that a participant in a discussion is limited to one comment is certainly the dream within the totalitarian mind, but from the standpoint of the American tradition, it is a totally absurd proposition.

There are an abundance of ideas in my previous posts that offer ignition points for further discussion.

Why your mind comes up blank, I suppose, is another commentary on the destructive nature of the demonic influence on the homosexual mind.

GoldenEagles,

If you want to say more than a single comment will let you, get your own blog, don't clog up the comments here.

As for your content, I'll let my good friend Bill say it best:

"There is more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy."

fr goldeneagles:

>...Homosexuality is clearly a condition the drives a wedge of alienation between the soul and God. The possessing spirit, you can hear it every where, shaking its fist in the face of God. As I said, and it should be obvious, that this is a soul-destroying spirit....

Nope, sorry, not true, but thanks for playing. Your car is in the alley next to the back door.

Just How Central is the Subject of
Demon Possession, and the Casting
out of Demons, to the Teachings
of the Master Jesus Christ? - Part 3

There are a few things that we should consider in regards to the foregoing story which is probably the most important example of the Master casting out demons. The story has many important elements.

First, the link between the demons and the swine is important, signifying their propensity, that is, the propensity of both, to dwell in filth, and to be quite content in so doing. As we know, a central feature of the demonic influence in terms of the state of homosexual enslavement, is this transmitted compulsion to compel the victim to surround the primary male sexual organ in filth.

Second, the fact that the demons, once the Master hurled them into the bodies of the swine, could then compel the herd of swine to commit suicide, is another important commentary on the homosexual dilemma, as this is a condition of enslavement that destroys the soul. The suicide link is in the injection, by the demonic influence, of the poison of God-Hatred, which causes the soul to progressively hold God in disdain and contempt. This progressively destroys the soul fabric. Thus, as the soul takes "pride" in its state of enslavement we see how appropriate it is to look at this as a state of spiritual suicide.

In this regard, the Biblical Teaching that pride goeth before the fall, should be persistently juxtaposed to every homosexual pride parade.

Third, this demonstrated demon/swine link is also important in terms of giving us a symbolic representation of the actual domain of soul death, which is, in the waters. The feeling world is commonly associated with the water element (fire, air, water, earth). Fire equates to spirit, Air equates to mind, water equates to feeling, and earth equates to material matter. The demon influence enters through the feeling world, which is most typically referred to as the astral body, or water body. This link to the outcome of death in water, points to the fact that the demon is literally suffocating the soul, keeping out the oxygen of the Divine Light (respect and love and obedience unto God).

Just How Central is the Subject of
Demon Possession, and the Casting
out of Demons, to the Teachings
of the Master Jesus Christ? - Part 2

I would like to quote one of the referenced events recorded in the Bible where the Master Jesus Christ is casting out demons. I believe this recorded event is particularly relevant to the homosexual subject area, because it involved TWO MEN who are doing violence to everyone who passes by them. This reference to violence hearkens back to the Old Testament Story (Genesis 19) where God sent two angels into Sodom, in preparation for its destruction, wherein Lot gave them refuge, and where the homosexuals later attacked the house with the idea of dragging the angels out onto the street to have sex with them. A good synopsis of this story you can find here.

Matthew 8: 23-34

23 And when he was entered into a ship, his disciples followed him.
24 And, behold, there arose a great tempest in the sea, insomuch that the ship was covered with the waves: but he was asleep.
25 And his disciples came to him, and awoke him, saying, Lord, save us: we perish.
26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.
27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!
28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
30 And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.
31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
33 And they that kept them fled, and went their ways into the city, and told every thing, and what was befallen to the possessed of the devils.
34 And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

And of course, we see an expression of the homosexuals propensity to inflict violence upon the prevailing social order in every homosexual pride parade.

Just How Central is the Subject of
Demon Possession, and the Casting
out of Demons, to the Teachings
of the Master Jesus Christ? - Part 1

As a followup to my thesis, that astral plane demons are the source of the homoerotic urge, I did some additional research on the degree to which the casting out of demons is central to the teachings of the Master Jesus Christ. I think everyone would be greatly surprised, even me, to have their memory refreshed in this regard. I did a Google search on these keywords: Jesus cast out demons. I found that this subject is pervasive throughout the gospels. I was quite surprised. I knew the Master was known for casting out demons. But I had forgotten the true extent and importance of this aspect of his ministry. I found this list of scripture on the web:

Matthew:

4:23-24 All Galilee, Synagogues(vs.23)
8:14-17 Peter's house (vs. 14)
8:28-33 Seashore (vs. 32)
9:32-33 Outside (vs. 32)
10:7-8 Everywhere (vs. 7)
12:15,22 Great multitudes (vs. 15)
15:22-28 Coasts (vs. 22)
17:14-21 Multitude (vs. 14)

Mark:

1:23-27 Synagogues (vs. 23)
1:32-34 Door-House of Simon and Andrew (vs. 33)
1:39-41 Synagogues, all Galilee (vs. 39)
3:9-15 Small ship (vs. 9)
5:2-20 Out of ship (vs. 2)
6:10-15 House (vs. 10)
7:24-30 House (vs. 24)
9:14-27 Multitude (vs. 14)
9:33,39 House (vs. 33)

Luke:

4:33-36 Synagogue (vs. 33)
4:38-41 Simon's house (vs. 38)
6:17-19 Plain (vs. 17)
8:1-3 Every city and village (vs. 1)
8:26-39 Seashore (vs. 26)
9:37-42 Down from the hill (vs. 37)
11:14-22 Synagogue (vs. 15)
13:11-17 Synagogue (vs. 14)

(source)

The Teachings of the Master Jesus Christ have always been considered the solid rock for the Children of God to stand on in the midst of the raging sea of materialist delusion, chaos, and strife. It is no less of a solid rock in this area. Though this area of the teaching could be considered to be perhaps one of the most advanced areas.

As a conservative Christian and strict constructionist of the Bible, I agree with this article. However, I don't agree with the political homosexual movement today (post Lawrence vs. Texas). Many of the things they say are rights, are not. Take marriage for instance. Government recognition of marriage is an entitlement, and as such requires strict guidelines that benefit the general welfare of all citizens, not just 10% of them.

It bothers me that Christians treat homosexuality as different from any other sin - as though it's somehow worse.

I am a married man. Sometimes I am tempted to have sex with women besides my wife. What are my options? I can't help how I feel, I was BORN this way, I desire sex with women! This is a sin, Jesus said that even looking lustfully is equivalent to adultery!

The conclusion is simple: I cannot indulge what my flesh wants to do. Whether my flesh wants sex with a man or a woman it makes no difference. Sex outside a marriage of one man to one woman is sinful.

We live in a culture that likes clear-cut labels such as gay and straight. Alfred Kinsey, an expert on human sexuality, believed that sexual orientation was more of a spectrum than a binary gay-straight switch. If freed from this binary world view, Christians with same sex attractions might find themselves also attracted to the opposite sex, but not always.

Can you be a Christian and be tempted to have same-sex relationships? Absolutely. It's the same as gossip, hate, adultery, gluttony, etc. But just like with any other sin, we must fight daily to take up our cross and not to give in to our flesh.

Yahweh Elohim (LORD God in English Bibles) did NOT dictate very much of what is in the Bible. There was no such thing as a holy stenographic pool.

djmolter says, “The big flaw in the Bible is that if God dictated it, he let men interpret and edit it.

Actually that is one of its greatest strengths. It provides the latitude for the exercise of freewill.

If you believe it true that we're all born sinners due to the supposed actions of a Eve in 6th Garden of Eden, the leap to condemning homsexuality isn't a long one. The big flaw in the Bible is that if God dictated it, he let men interpret and edit it.

lufrank1 says, "Normally, male infants experience a burst of testicular testosterone within a narrow period about the time of birth."

Talk about superstitions. The superstitions of the materialists are far more outlandish and destructive than anything that has popped up in the domain of religious belief.

Sigh . . Normally, male infants experience a burst of testicular testosterone within a narrow period about the time of birth. The testosterone circulates throughout the blood vascular system, and some of it "binds" with specific glycoproteins at the surface of cells of the hypothalamus of the brain.
IF THAT DOES NOT OCCUR, THE MALE WILL BE GAY!

IT IS NOT A MATTER OF CHOICE! And any attempts to cure homosexuality are stupid/useless and downright CRUEL!

If YOU believe that God made YOU . . . you should also believe that God makes Gays!
Geeze! Baseless Religious superstitions are Mankind's Bane!

joe_allen_doty says, “Alan Chambers, the current president of Exodus International, admitted to a CNN reporter, who was interviewing him for Anderson Coopers 360 program, after being heterosexually married and adopting children, he still occasionally experienced same-gender sexual attractions.”

This is not surprising. There is a large hole in the aura, through which this demonic presence first enters. The hole in the aura is composed of allegiances to various elements of error (points of rebellion against God’s Law). And these allegiances are built up over a long stretch of time. To close the breach in the castle wall, the soul must be very vigilant and consistent in it effort to rid itself of all allegiances to error which provided the original entry point for the demonic influence.

As long as the breach remains, the demonic influence can reenter. For many it is a tough road out of this state of enslavement.

No soul is a “homosexual” by God-Design. It is a state of enslavement brought about by a series of foolish choices made by the soul in question, who has neglected the responsibility to build up a solid shield of light in the aura through consistent and sincere devotional practices over time.

Sigh ... THE PROBLEM is that so many (especially Catholic Priests and evangelicals) DO NOT REALIZE that homosexuality is a matter of geneotype and sexual hormonal physiology. It is NOT simply a matter of Choice, and attempts at "Curing" are downright mean and confirm the ignorance of those who impose such measures.
FINALLY - you many many people who firmly believe that YOU are made in "God's Image" should at least also agree that Gays are made by GOD!

Alan Chambers, the current president of Exodus International, admitted to a CNN reporter, who was interviewing him for Anderson Coopers 360 program, after being heterosexually married and adopting children, he still occasionally experienced same-gender sexual attractions.

Since the late 1970s, I have been following what has been happening in the ex-gay movement and that was because I first saw an article about "Exodus International" in the General Council of the Assemblies of God's weekly magazine, "The Pentecostal Evangel."

Michael Bussee was the actual founder of Exodus when he was a member of Melodyland Christian Center in Anaheim, CA. The church was named that because it was across the street from Disneyland.

I talked to Michael on the phone a few years ago. He left the group when he decided to stop lying about God changing his sexual orientation.

I have read more than 100 testimonies endorsed by Exodus International where a person attempted to claim that God changed his or her sexual orientation. But, there was a LOOP HOLE in EVERY ONE of them. They were either never homosexual in the 1st place; they were bisexual; or they were just pretending to be "straight."

This "goldeneagles" person is one or more of the following since Oral Roberts University's mascot is "Golden Eagles."

I am assuming the person is male in gender.

He's a current ORU student. He's an ORU alumnus. He's an employee of ORU. And he can be all three at the same time.

When I was a grad Theology student at ORU, I was a part-time employee for a while with the Oral Roberts Evangelistic Association which had legal authority over the University.

POTABOC,
There is a difference between a homosexual relationship between CONSENTING ADULTS, and the sexual abuse of a CHILD by an adult.

areyousaying says, in parody, "The force that derails the God-Given identity comes from religion .."

This is an absurd starting point for the point you are trying to make. Religion is all about bringing souls closer to God. As souls get closer to God, they understand more clearly, in terms of morality, what it is that keeps people away from achieving that closer relationship. Homosexuality is clearly a condition the drives a wedge of alienation between the soul and God. The possessing spirit, you can hear it every where, shaking its fist in the face of God. As I said, and it should be obvious, that this is a soul-destroying spirit.

plasma411 says, "Free yourself from religion and its falsehoods."

In the debate over the level of moral depravity that the condition of homosexual enslavement represents, I hear this sentiment expressed often. This is evidence of the demonic (Anti-God) spirit that has invaded the temple of the homosexual. This Anti-God spirit will eventually destroy the soul. Warning Alarms should be going off. What we have in the homosexaul movement, is a soul-detroying agenda.

Babies and puppies are naturally born without racism and homomphobia. What then would cause people like goldeneagles to become that way when they get older?

There is only one answer to this. The force that derails the God-Given identity comes from religion, and is associated with forces of evil which are intent on destroying what God has created.

This will be proven through sophisticated sensing technology in the not too distant future, that the source of the homophobia has its origin in the black heart of the demonic religious forces, which reside on the astral plane. The homophobic urge is broadcast into the astral body of the vulnerable soul, and if the individual acts on the urge, then they become hooked to the demonic controller, who will be able to tug that chain at will.

The soul becomes vulnerable to this manipulation when it neglects for too long, its responsibility to work with God our Father to build up a shield of light in the aura.

The only solution to this state of enslavement, which threatens the very life of the soul, is to seek the help of God. Freedom from enslavement to the forces of darkness, can only come through the Intercession of God.

May god give goldeneagles a gay child or grandchild to cure him/her from his/her ignorant, superstitious, evil prejudice. It worked for Lord Cheney so there's hope for goldeneagles, too.

I doubt any reasonable person would say that being born with a homosexual inclination makes one a morally bad person. The position (as I understand it) is that engaging in homosexual behavior is the issue. To say that having an inclination absolves one from moral problems in engaging in behavior is absurd - would anyone extend that to all other forms of behavior? For that matter, how many would use that argument to absolve a person born with the inclination to have sex with six year old children?

The idea that homosexuals need to be "healed" is wrong. They need to realize their is nothing wrong with them.

Free yourself from religion and its falsehoods.

What is the origin of the Homoerotic Urge?

Aikane says, "Being gay or homosexual is NOT ABOUT BEHAVIOR."

You are making a common mistake in judgment.

Surface observations, and conclusions based on them, while well-intentioned, go nowhere when trying to fathom the reason why an individual can be turned against his own God-Given identity.

Ask any normal male, and they will tell you, that the most powerful thing in their life is their attraction to women.

Sure, men can have an array of other interests, but when you are speaking about the one thing that moves them powerfully, it is their attraction to the opposite sex.

And so, we must ask, what in the world could possibly get in the way of what God intended to be the most powerful directive in the life of every male child?

There is only one answer to this. The force that derails the God-Given identity comes from the outside, and is associated with forces of evil which are intent on destroying what God has created.

This will be proven through sophisticated sensing technology in the not too distant future, that the source of the homoerotic urge has its origin in the black heart of the demonic forces, which reside on the astral plane. The homoerotic urge is broadcast into the astral body of the vulnerable soul, and if the individual acts on the urge, then they become hooked to the demonic controller, who will be able to tug that chain at will.

The soul becomes vulnerable to this manipulation when it neglects for too long, its responsibility to work with God our Father to build up a shield of light in the aura.

The only solution to this state of enslavement, which threatens the very life of the soul, is to seek the help of God. Freedom from enslavement to the forces of darkness, can only come through the Intercession of God.

However, the individual trapped in the homosexual lifestyle has another factor working against him. The connection between the astral body of the victim, and the astral body of the controlling demon causes the victims feeling world to be colored with the demons disdain and contempt towards God. Just as the victim believes the homoerotic urge is a natural expression of the identity, so too does the victim believe that this feeling of disdain towards God represents an attribute of his own natural identity. But it is not true. These are both elements of the demonic manipulation.

I believe every individual who is trapped in the homosexual lifestyle knows this is true at some level. They can sense the characteristic of aggressiveness that is associated with every homoerotic urge. I think in some instances it comes upon them when they least expect it. And thus, every homoerotic urge comes with a sense of being manipulated. And they are also aware of the fact that they have an attitude towards God that is not positive. They should add these two factors together, and this will point to the origin of their problem.

I really wish that opponents of gay people will educate themselves about what sexual orientation really is.

Being gay or homosexual is NOT ABOUT BEHAVIOR. It is a characteristic of one's heart and the gender of the one you're romantically attracted to in your heart is the same gender as you. The sexual behavior may or may not happen, but the romantic orientation in the heart cannot change for those who are 100% gay in the heart.

Being a homosexual has more to do with what goes on in the heart and less to do with what goes on in the bedroom.

Being gay is different from stealing, different from using drugs, different from smoking, and different from prostitution because it's about the gender of the one you romantically love in your heart.

@CUBICLEDWELLER
Your "moral principles" are not healthy for people who are naturally gay. Homosexuality is a sin only for naturally straight people but NOT a sin for naturally gay people. I respect that you disagree, but I pray that you educate yourself before YOUR behavior drives a gay youth within your earshot to suicide. Disagreement is fine, but you also disagree with Buddhists who do not believe in Jesus Christ and they're not being driven to suicide because of conservative Christian prejudice. Anyhow, why do you want to dictate the way someone else falls in love?

Randy, thank you so very much for writing this article. A serious social discussion and public education needs to happen to prevent more gay youth from committing suicide because of the homophobic ignorance of those around them. God bless you!

I agree with Randy about healing.

There is a phrase that says, “from each according to his ability to each according to his need“. Many attribute it to Marx. But, it originates in Acts Chapter 4. Jesus discusses the earthly “miracle” abilities of talents and skills we all have through the gifts and talents God gave us. He gave them for us to wisely use, as it later says in Acts, to distribute that ability “unto every man according to his need“. Or as Randy says. we can be that “point of contact between a source of power and a person in need“.

We have a community of gays in great need of healing. I am not talking about “changing” and pretending to be straight. I am talking about real needs. I have seen very little “supernatural” healing when it relates to gays being “cured”. Whole ministries are devoted to it with little success. I know dozens of gays doing all the things the church tells them to do to “change“. Yet, it does not work. Just maybe it is because being gay is not the thing that needs healed.

Yet, I have seen healing in the very form that Randy presents. I am talking about gays who are still gay not pretending to be straight. I am talking healing of hurts. Healing separation from family and the churches they love. I am talking emotional healing of scars from bullying and years of emotional beatings by family, church and political communities.

Within the Christian tradition, I am talking about healing of those I know in the thousands. That is just ones I am aware of. It is because gays took the initiative. They took their cots to the doors of churches willing to welcome them. They sought to serve and were partnered in ministry without having to pretend to be straight. They went to the communion table and were freely served. They sought to worship while others took their hand and raised them up together. They came to Christ just as they are -- a whosoever, believing and calling on the name of Christ. Christ has not turned them away. His grace is sufficient for ALL -- including gays.

It is only mankind that turned them away. Mankind forced them to remain in their cots. Mankind inflicted ills on them, bullied them, taken their rights away, judged them and sent them to hell without a hearing from God first. It is mankind that has caused deep, long-term emotional scarring. For some, a “supernatural” miracle just might be instantaneous. For most it is going to take years of TLC.

The church and society has the very healing ability to help heal those ills, to welcome gays, nurture them and love them unconditionally as Christ commanded. Yes, healing is that simple.

Judgment is not man’s to make. It is solely God's. Healing through love, however, is the calling of the church. Just as a doctor has healing skills, the church surely has the skills to heal a gay community that is hurting and reaching out for healing. From each according to his/her ability to each according to his/her need.

Randy Potts' picture of healing is not odd at all. Intolerance, prejudice, false stereotyping and undeserved shame, those are the sins, those are the abominations that divide families, wound innocent souls and tragically take lives. Suppressing human diversity in dark closets of despair is not healing. That is the injury that needs to be healed.

religion isnt real. its a mental construct that exists only in the human mind. sure, that's just my opinion, but at least its grounded in reason. religion is grounded only in "faith" which by definition is the suspension of reason. religion does not teach love, though it may purportedly attempt to, because it simply cant. love isnt a capacity that is picked up through philisophical teachings. rather it is taught by example, and the most religious among us all often fail miserably to provide that example. if religion disappeared tomorrow, ethics, love, charity and tolerance would not suffer the slightest hit. but.. the central role of political manipulation, which is dividing people in order to control them, certainly would.

I appreciate Randy Potts's call for compassion, and agree with him that everyone, ESPECIALLY Christians, should be loving and accepting towards gay people.

However... the picture of "healing" he gives in this piece is rather odd. It doesn't seem to involve any change in the person being "healed"--rather, apparently the rest of us are asked to accept the person's behavior without question or criticism (behavior we think is potentially harmful, including to the person him/herself).

Since Potts told the story about Jesus, I feel I should point out that Jesus often ended his healings with the words "go forth and sin no more." In other words--yes, you are forgiven, you are healed, you are accepted, you are loved--but you're also supposed to try to change.

Also, homosexual behavior isn't just mentioned in the Old Testament; it also shows up several times in the letters of Paul.

The second half of the essay seems to be saying "just stop debating and accept MY point of view already." Yes, debates are tumultuous and often unpleasant, but there are genuine disagreements on the table here--your point of view is not necessarily the default position. We should certainly never lose sight of the fact that there are real people involved in these issues, but that doesn't give you the right to call the debate over and proclaim your side the winner.

I'd like to end by again affirming that all people, ESPECIALLY Christians, should be loving towards gay people. They should not be kicked out of families, churches, businesses, or the military simply because they are gay. We are all sinners, and being gay is NOT the worst sin. But that shouldn't stop us from respectfully and compassionately standing up for our moral principles, from avoiding actively ENCOURAGING behavior we think is wrong, and from trying to work for true healing.

Randy Potts (his individual facebook page profile name) told me several weeks ago by private Facebook message that the Oral Roberts family did not want the world to know that Ronald Roberts was gay.

And he wasn't going to out his uncle in respect to their wishes.

I asked him, "Why? Ronald outed himself to the city of Tulsa sometime before he died. He had many gay friends, too. Troy Perry, the head of the MCC denomination, outed him in a book he wrote where he had an interview with Ronald here in Tulsa. I knew several people in show business who knew he was gay. I also had several people contact me on the internet who had been in the US Army with Ronald and they knew their friend, Ronald, was gay, too."

I am glad that Randy Potts finally gave in and outed his late uncle, too.

I and several other gay people believe that he was murdered although the official TULSA POLICE DEPARTMENT reports say otherwise. I had a person who was with the TPD who told me about the official report. But, Ronald Roberts was found dead in the country NW of Tulsa in Osage County.