Yasseryousufi1

"Regarding your repeated insistence on visiting the Holy cities of Mecca and Medina, holy spaces are holy spaces mami, they are not anthropological/tourist curiosities. Thats something you have to learn to live with. Most places in the Vatican are also denied access to normal citizens."

I have not made any repeated insistence on visiting Holy cities. I merely made the comment that is is unjust to deny non-Muslims accress to Mecca or Medina. I remember in a past thread, you denied that there is such a ban, but apparently, there is.

I do not insist that non-Muslims be entitled to enter Mecca or Media; I just wonder how do you claim any credibility on matters of justice, when Islam is so unjust on this point.

You have not answered. You have not answered because you cannot answer. YOu cannot answer, because the policy is unjust, and your subsequent characterizatuions of justice on any subject are devalued, to the point of worthlessness.

I have been to the Vatican; I have been inside of Saint Peter's Bassillica; of course the Pope's private residence is not open to the public. I do not understand what your point is.

There is nothing in Islam that needs improvement. Its was a complete religion as revealed upon the Prophet of Allah 1500 years ago and it remains the same till today and shall remain so as long as this world exists and will continue to grow stronger to the horror of those who hate us.

Yes such a perfect religion that it covered every detail of life. Including the burning issue for mankind - that is, is it OK for a man to nail his ex-daughter-in-law. To establish that fact that it is OK to nail ones ex-daughter-in-law their god forced the dear prophet to and who dutifully obeyed and married his daughter-in-law and nailed her. I don't know if he really nailed or just fondled her, as it is rumored that at that point he was also suffering from ED. What is there to improve ina religion when it has covered every detail. Even ho a woman needs to shave and where all to shave for her man. How can you find anything improve over that. For that matter it prescribes when and how and ex-husband can remarry his then divorced wife. Definitely not before another man has tasted the nectar of her womanhood. Now fols how can you improve on a religion that has dealt with such details of human existence. Isn't the remarrying of an ex-wife, the most burning issue mankind has faced since the dawn of civilization? You tell me how can you improve on dealing with such detail? Yasseryousufi, you are absolutely right there is nothing to improve, in a religion that grants you the right to nail your ex-daughter-in-law, but you cannot nail your ex-wife until she had been nailed by someone else in between, and of course whenever you are nailing them they better be bare like Ayesha was for your dear dear MO.

Daniel,

There is nothing in Islam that needs improvement. Its was a complete religion as revealed upon the Prophet of Allah 1500 years ago and it remains the same till today and shall remain so as long as this world exists and will continue to grow stronger to the horror of those who hate us. Now are there bad muslims? You bet there are! Bad Muslims, very bad muslims, evil muslims! just like in any other religion. But none of their acts can be justified based on Islam.

Regarding your repeated insistence on visiting the Holy cities of Mecca and Medina, holy spaces are holy spaces mami, they are not anthropological/tourist curiosities. Thats something you have to learn to live with. Most places in the Vatican are also denied access to normal citizens.

Once again, uyou did not reply directly to anything that I said. I brought up the basic priciples of justice. Don't you understand? Don't you care?

Apparently not.

Posted by: DanielintheLionsDen

DitlD, I disagree with you on this post. You said "Apparently not" and I take a strong exception to it. The fact of the matter is "Evidently not".

blockquote>
Another Islam related post and yet again the familiar Hindus sniff their way in to spew their "oh so predictable" venom. Despite being found out for their lies a zillion times by me these shameless pricks, who are too ashamed too declare their own religion, continue to try to goad me into useless debates. I am not giving any more more credence to these crackpot shills. There hateful comments regarding muslims/islam on this article and on this blog totally renders them irrelevant to say anything on Islam. So I dont think we muslims need to prove or explain our religion to these idiots. Period!

DitlD, see as we discussed the predictable response to the idiocy pointed out about Islam. As always, without any disappointment comes the, response. The one posing the question is always the Islamophobe and personal invective. Never is there a response challenging the evidence presented or conceding the errancy of Islam. Instead empty boast that they have shown the falsities of the opponents evidence. These guys have never ever shown that criticism of islam is unfounded. They never will

Yasseryousufi1

"Even I thought you were better than a Hindu bootlicker."

That is not true; you have always hated me with a passion, because I am an American. You make that crystal clear, every time you address me. So? How would you expect me to respond? It is only natural that I do not like someone who calls me every dirty, nasty, and rude name in the book. I do not consider myself better than Hindu's; sorry I do not share your hatred for them.

"You're taking cue from professional bigots like kafir and secular just parroting their stupid talking points."

If you want to see a bigot, just look in the mirror.

"Why would any muslim wanna go to the Vatican?"

Maybe a Muslim might want to go as a tourist. Maybe a Musim might be interested in European history, and Renaissance architecture. Maybe a Muslim might be interested in the art of Michaelangelo. Maybe a Muslim would be curious to see the wide world outside of Islam. Maybe a Muslim might be interested in converting to Catholicism. Maybe a Muslim might be interested in marrying a Catholic. I am sure there are many reasons that I cannot even imaagine.

"Before this you were ranting against one university out of thousands in the US allowing muslims girls to use the pool for a couple of hour every month."

It was one hour a week, and I was not ranting; I was expressing mmy opinion that they should swim with everyone else.

"Saying the Sharia law is taking over US. you're drowning deeper and deeper in the pool of hatred and sounding just as silly these hindu bigots whose company you're enjoying."

I have never commented on Sharia Law, since I do not even know what it is. You either have me mixed up with someone else, or you just used canned insults on everyone, no matter what they have said in the past.

Once again, uyou did not reply directly to anything that I said. I brought up the basic priciples of justice. Don't you understand? Don't you care?

Apparently not.

Yasser

I think that a good excercise for you would be to think of one thing about Islam that needs improvement, and then to state it as a constructive criticism. You would see that that there is such a thing as constructive criticism, and that even Islam can be improved in some way.

And then, sit down, and think real hard, and try and say just one positive thing about America, no matter how small, even if it is just to say that we have a very colorful flag ... I think it would help you understand that there is good and bad everywhere, and that America is not 100 percent bad.

Muslims visit Vatican City and Peter's Basilica all the time and practically every day of the year. The famous Muslim-Catholic Summit that the Pope held was held in the Vatican City. Many of the OIC countries have representatives posted at the Vatican city.

http://www.acommonword.com/en/a-common-word-in-the-news/14-general-news/80-catholic-muslim-summit-opens-in-vatican-city.html

A muslim can choose not to go to the Vatican if he so desires but he is considered a human. A Kafir is given lashes and deported if caught in the surrounds of Mecca and Medina. As pointed by Arif2, that these two cities were multicultural hubs in Arabia before Islam, and after Islam no other religion or culture is acceptable there. An example of the hate that Islam represents for the non-Muslim.

The actual State of Affairs as given by a newspaper from Pakistan:
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http://www.dawn.com/2010/11/24/slavery-in-our-times.html

What causes this widespread abuse of the weak in so many countries in the Middle East? Clearly, their seems to be a deep contempt for those not of Arab descent. And while Westerners are given favoured status, other non-Arabs are subjected to the worst kind of racism. This despite our loud proclamations of the equality that supposedly exists in Islamic societies.These double standards are common knowledge, and yet few in our part of the world are willing to speak about it. The racism inherent in the situation has its roots in the early days of Islam.

“Right from the start, the Umayyad government took on the colours of an Arab government in which the equality of the Arabs and non-Arabs was negated. In clear violation of Islamic principles, the Arab rulers imposed Jazia on non-Arab Muslims… Non-Arab Muslims felt that they were the slaves of the Arabs…”

Fatah also quotes Professor Liyakat Takim of the University of Denver:

“(Under the Umayyads between 661 and 750) Arab Muslims were granted honorific status relegating, in the process, non-Arabs to a status of second class citizens. Despite the Quranic injunction of egalitarianism, Arab sense of pride in Arab identity reasserted itself soon after the Prophet’s (PBUH) death. Non-Arab converts to Islam, whatever their previous social status, were treated as second-class citizens.”

And if this is their attitude towards non-Arab Muslims, imagine how they must feel about non-Muslim Asians. Clearly, this racist mindset has only grown stronger over time. Now, with egos bloated with billions of dollars in newly acquired unearned wealth derived from an accident of geology, many in the Middle East feel they are chosen above all others, and can mistreat those less fortunate than them.
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The same supremacist attitude towards the non-Muslims bubbles up among the muslims in the west as the numbers of Muslims increase beyond some threshold. Just see what is happening in European Islamic Ghettos to see Islam in action.

yasseryousufi1

You asked, "Why would any muslim wanna go to the Vatican?"

The point is that "any muslim" can go to the Vatican not whether or not "any muslim" would want to go to the Vatican.

You then asked, "What business do they have over there?"

I would think that it would be up to the individual Muslim to make up his or her mind whether or not they would want to go to the Vatican not for you or anyone else to decide for them.

You then wrote, "This really such a silly debate."

You are right, it is silly, it should be obvious that it is just common decency and common courtesy to allow people to go where they want if they are not set on forcing themself or their agenda on others.

You then wrote, "Before this you were ranting against one university out of thousands in the US allowing muslims girls to use the pool for a couple of hour every month."

Unless the pool is being used for some kind of athletic event or something of the sort, muslim girls should not be banned from using the pool nor should anyone else, were they?

You then wrote, "Saying the Sharia law is taking over US."

Sounds as if you are saying that the muslim girls were not banned but that everyone else was banned, is this so?

In the USA, there have been many times in it's history when discrimination has reared it's ugly head, I see no reason why we should try to implement discrimination whether for the majority or the minority, do you?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Danielinthelionsden,

Even I thought you were better than a Hindu bootlicker. You're taking cue from professional bigots like kafir and secular just parroting their stupid talking points. You tell me are you gonna start protesting that the Pope sitting pretty in his secluded Palace city in the Vatican doesn't allow muslims, jews and Buddhists to set up shops and roam freely in the streets? Does it even make sense? Why would any muslim wanna go to the Vatican? What business do they have over there? This really such a silly debate. I hope you get a grip of yourself Daniel. Before this you were ranting against one university out of thousands in the US allowing muslims girls to use the pool for a couple of hour every month. Saying the Sharia law is taking over US. you're drowning deeper and deeper in the pool of hatred and sounding just as silly these hindu bigots whose company you're enjoying.

yasseryousufi1

Islam does not seem to be doing you any good. I think you have a definite problem, but I am not sure what the solution would be.

Another Islam related post and yet again the familiar Hindus sniff their way in to spew their "oh so predictable" venom. Despite being found out for their lies a zillion times by me these shameless pricks, who are too ashamed too declare their own religion, continue to try to goad me into useless debates. I am not giving any more more credence to these crackpot shills. There hateful comments regarding muslims/islam on this article and on this blog totally renders them irrelevant to say anything on Islam. So I dont think we muslims need to prove or explain our religion to these idiots. Period!

Secular

Yasseryousuffi is a damaged person. I hope he would be able to get better somehow. I hope that he has his Helen Keller moment.

Yasseryousufi

It is unjust to deny non-Muslims entry into Mecca and Medina. There are basic principles of justice, which you do not seem to understand. Why do you worry so much about the injustice in the world, especially in Europe and America, when you casually support such injustice as a part of Islam?

Posted by: DanielintheLionsDen | November 23, 2010 9:09 PM

DitlD, your post is like shouting into the ear of a deaf person. Aggressive muslims of mr. yusufi's ilk are unapologetic bigots. It is their modus operandii to exaggerate the insults and offense done to them and their own atrocities they just cannot comprehend how anyone will consider them as atrocities. Case in point, we have read all the whinings about French burqa ban. But for all the points raised by the commenters about the OIC countries laws against non=muslims, you never heard a peep from these bigots.

They see the idiocy that is religion and unabashedly go after that. But as far as they are concerned Islam is an exception, that proves the rule. They quickly accept the idiocy of the claim of Satanic verses, but cannot come up with an objective test to actually determine which ones are satanic which are not. Their answer is MO said it.

Of course MO also claimed his dog told him that he can nail his own ex-daughter-in-law. When you tell them the self serving nature of their only dog's revelation, their answer is MO could have nailed Zainab a lot earlier as she was his 2nd cousin or something. He did not have to first marry her off to Zaid. The fact of the matter is MO did not see what an absolutely hot chick Zainab was till the day he walked into her budior. When she was in the absolute glory of her birthday suit. After that the old dog could keep his pecker down. Actually couldn't resist the thoughts of fondling her, because by then he couldn't get his pecker up.

Yasseryousufi

It is unjust to deny non-Muslims entry into Mecca and Medina. There are basic principles of justice, which you do not seem to understand. Why do you worry so much about the injustice in the world, especially in Europe and America, when you casually support such injustice as a part of Islam?

When will we hear of a group of Haggis demonstrate against the exclusion of non-Muslims from visiting Mecca and its environs, instead of shouting “Death to America and Death to Israel”. I personally do not see anything in that whole Peninsula that remotely appeals to me, but why should anybody be barred on the basis of what he believes or do not believe?

I completely agree with your assessment. Then the Yasser responds thusly, never a surprise from him:

No one is denied entry in the whole peninsula. Its just two cities with muslim holy sites. People like you would only go there to make mischief as you yourself say there's nothing that remotely appeals to you. So its entirely prudent to keep people like you out of places where you have no business.

Of course Saudis do deny entry. Sometime ago, I needed to go at a short notice Saudia had the best schedule so I said I will give up my scotch and pork chops and fly Saudia. But when I tried to buy tickets the bigoted bedouins denied me the ticket to go through Jeddah, because I was a Kafir from a Kafir country and the layover time was too long - 3.5 hours. Once a african-american friend of mine in the oil patch was dispatched from Houston, the so called host refused to receive him because his skin tone was a few shades darker. They asked him to take the next flight out of that wretched peninsula. See the sorry excuses for human beings, would not take in a Kafir if the kafir is not a lot of shades paler than themselves.

Yasser goes on to say that the like of abrahamhab1, would only make michief. It takes mischief mongers to be paranoid. Because in the back of their minds they know what kind of miscief they have caused through out the world. Like the mischief they caused in Istanbul, Benara, Somanath, etc, etc.

Then this nonsense about holy places. My foot, Yathrib was a hosptable little town which gave sanctuary to the monster. Little did they know when they gave the monster the sanctuary what he really was. Now they don't even call it by its name. Then the Mecca it was a pagan temple. Mo started a myth out of the south end of a north bound camel, that it was the final resting place of a mythical wife-pimping, his baby-mama dumping, infanticidal, henpecked coward. As though the camel business end had more knowledge of history that the pagans who had been carrying on the traditions for centuries. The hilarious part is 1.3 billion living idiots buy into the BS. IF your allah made all of the earth why does he pick two decrypt mangy towns as his favorite. In fact the monster first said it was Jerusalem was the holy place and asked his followers to pray towards it. When he had a falling off with the jewish tribes that he chose mecca. So Yasser, your dear mecca was not the first choice.

yasseryousufi1

You wrote, "Thomas Paul Moses Baum a.k.a Antichrist Hallucinator,"

Can you explain what you mean by this?

I wrote, "Seems pretty clear that "Islam's goal" as "Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh" put it, is the total subjugation of everyone to the "peace and security of Islam".""

You replied, "How does the Imam Kaaba say that??"

If the Imam Kaaba and the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh are one and the same than what Muqtedar Khan wrote in his article very clearly spelled it out when he wrote, "the concept of security in Islamic law, saying that security permeates all aspects of life and encompasses economic, social, political, intellectual, media, environmental and spiritual dimensions", isn't this exactly what is wanted and eventually demanded in Muslim society or are you disputed what the Grand Mufti said?

You then wrote, "Still seeing Satan in your dreams? Take your medicines old man and lay off."

Actually, when I met satan, I did not see satan and it was not in a dream.

You may be forgetting that I also met God the Father and the Holy Spirit and that the Holy Spirit revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist is Jesus, therefore I have met the Trinity and the god of islam gets very mad whenever anyone refers to God as a Trinity and to Jesus as God-Incarnate and for anyone to refer to God as Father, so it is pretty simple to come to the realization that the god of islam is satan.

You then wrote, "You don't even know what you're talking."

Merely your opinion and in God's Time and God's Way whether or not God has revealed Himself, as a Trinity, to me will be revealed.

You then wrote, " Its you Christians who have wet dreams of taking over the world with your evil, war mongering racist ideologies."

When "Christians" attempt to create a theocracy here on earth, they are going against what Jesus said, "My Kingdom is not of this world", however, it appears that when Muslims attempt to create a theocracy here on earth, they are just following what Muhammed taught.

Didn't the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh say "Islam's goal is to spread peace and security in all its forms, that security permeates all aspects of life and encompasses economic, social, political, intellectual, media, environmental and spiritual dimensions."

Sounds like pretty straight-forward theocracy talk, as the Grand Mufti puts it, however considering that the god of islam is satan and not God, it should be called a theowannabeocracy since satan is a wannabe god.

See you and the rest of humanity in the Kingdom, God's Plan will come to Fruition.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Mohammed snatched the kaaba from the pagans claiming that Abraham built that place. Kaaba should be returned to the pagans who are the rightful owners. The cities that practice apartheid are mecca and medina, how ironic these cities were once the citadel of all religions races and people, now its only for the arse and foot washers.

Seems pretty clear that "Islam's goal" as "Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh" put it, is the total subjugation of everyone to the "peace and security of Islam"."

-----------------------------------------
Thomas Paul Moses Baum a.k.a Antichrist Hallucinator,

How does the Imam Kaaba say that?? Still seeing Satan in your dreams? Take your medicines old man and lay off. You don't even know what you're talking. Its you Christians who have wet dreams of taking over the world with your evil, war mongering racist ideologies.

The Sheikh is giving a Khutba at Hajj. This ritual embodies the hate of Allah for the Kafirs. Allah commands the Muslims to keep the filthy and unclean (Najassoun) Kafirs away from his "house". So the Mufti cannot real talk about "peace" for the Kafirs because Allah word in the Quran guarantees that there cannot be peace for the Kafirs. Islam will dominate the world Allah declares to the Muslims and Islam is the ONLY religion acceptable to Allah.

The Mufti is addressing the Muslims in an attempt to control the Civil war that is raging within Islam. The Kafirs have been dragged into this civil war and we have chosen a side, but there should be no doubt that both sides hate the Kafirs because their Allah hates the non-Muslims.

And then in todays paper we have:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/world/europe/23britain.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
Lessons of Hate at Islamic Schools in Britain
... including a textbook that asks children to list the “reprehensible” qualities of Jews,
....textbook as saying that Jews “looked like monkeys and pigs,” and that Zionists set out to achieve “world domination.”
The program quoted a separate part of the curriculum — for children as young as 6 — saying that someone who is not a believer in Islam at death would be condemned to “hellfire.”
One of the textbooks, according to the BBC program, prescribed execution as the penalty for gay sex, and outlined differing viewpoints as to whether death should be by stoning, immolation by fire or throwing offenders off a cliff.
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Can Muqtedar Khan condemn the hate embodied by the annual Hajj ritual of Islam? He cannot just as Yasser Yousufi cannot. No muslim can but they will all resort to making excuses. Why? Because Allah hates the Kafirs and if they want to follow Muhammad and his Allah, they will by necessity have to justify that hate.

YasserYousufi writes: "No one is denied entry in the whole peninsula. Its just two cities with muslim holy sites. People like you would only go there to make mischief as you yourself say there's nothing that remotely appeals to you."

"Just" two cities!! Allah declares the non-muslims Najassoun (Koran 9:28), that is filthy, unclean, impure, etc. and the Shia Muslims take that to compare the Kafirs to urine and feces, and the sunni declare them to be so impure that they have to be kept away from "just" two cities. And this is the religion of peace.

Allah hates the Kafirs and Muslims will always be put into a position of having to justify that hate. That is why two whole cities and their surrounds is "just" two cities!!! It truly is Dogs and Kafirs not allowed in just two cities, because dogs are not allowed in those cities as well, for Muhammad had ordered all dogs to be killed, which was then softened to "just" black dogs.

Muqtedar Khan

You wrote, "Islam's goal is to spread peace and security in all its forms, and he called on Muslim communities to uphold the ethics and teachings of Islam."

and

"He then proceeded to talk about the concept of security in Islamic law, saying that security permeates all aspects of life and encompasses economic, social, political, intellectual, media, environmental and spiritual dimensions."

Seems pretty clear that "Islam's goal" as "Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh" put it, is the total subjugation of everyone to the "peace and security of Islam".

The imposition of peace thru security measures has absolutely nothing to do with freedom but everything to do with subjugation, does it not?

By his own words, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh, has said that Islam's goal has absolutely nothing to do with spreading what they perceive as knowledge of god and letting people decide what, if anything, they want to do with this "knowledge" but to "spread peace and security in all its forms".

By the "Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh" own words, "the concept of security in Islamic law, saying that security permeates all aspects of life and encompasses economic, social, political, intellectual, media, environmental and spiritual dimensions", it should be clear that Islam, at least according to the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh, is not merely a religion but an ideology covering all aspects of life and since terrorism is getting a bad name, that other tactics may work better now, is that the point that he is trying to get across?

Even with the messiness of freedom, some people still prefer freedom or at least some freedom to the "peace and security" of a theowannabecratic state.

By his own words, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia, Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Asheikh, has made it clear that Islam and America are incompatible, at least what he spells Islam out to be.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Author: "He then proceeded to talk about the concept of security in Islamic law, saying that security permeates all aspects of life and encompasses economic, social, political, intellectual, media, environmental and spiritual dimensions."

There was a saying popular during the US civil rights movement that "real peace is not just the absence of war, but the presence of justice." Things like stoning adulteresses and taxing dhimmis probably produce orderly, secure communities, but they violate western concepts of what fundamental human rights are. A place like Saudi Arabia in which wealth and power are both concentrated in the same small number of people, will naturally develop a legal system premised on the priority of stagnation.

"I personally do not see anything in that whole Peninsula that remotely appeals to me, but why should anybody be barred on the basis of what he believes or do not believe?"

---abrahamhab1

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No one is denied entry in the whole peninsula. Its just two cities with muslim holy sites. People like you would only go there to make mischief as you yourself say there's nothing that remotely appeals to you. So its entirely prudent to keep people like you out of places where you have no business.

The annual Hajj is an annual reminder that prejudice and discrimination on the basis of religion is well and alive in the 21stCentury. When will we hear of a group of Haggis demonstrate against the exclusion of non-Muslims from visiting Mecca and its environs, instead of shouting “Death to America and Death to Israel”. I personally do not see anything in that whole Peninsula that remotely appeals to me, but why should anybody be barred on the basis of what he believes or do not believe?