The American Kafirs should read the post by the Malaysian Muslim Jihadist and the Pakistani Muslim YasserYousufi. They commiserate to justify the criticism being levelled against Islam. Their Justification is that Hirsi Ali is a liar because she had lied to stay in Denmark, not because she has said any lies about Islam. The Danes dealt with her and she still is a citizen of Denmark. Their justification is that the Christians are liars, the Missionaries are liars, the ex-Muslims are liars.
But is there a single word, one word of acknowledgement of the absolute hate that is institutionalized in the laws of their countries Pakistan and Malaysia? Is there a single word of acknowledgement that both of them enjoy the equality that the Kafir Laws provide them in the west, but which are totally and utterly denied to the non-Muslims in every single Muslim country. And these two are the educated, moderate Muslims?
Jihadist is unable to comment on the hate Islam in Malay express towards the non-Muslims. Not a single word, regardless of how many times it has been brought to her notice. Yasser is unable to utter a word against the terrorism that his co-religionist in Pakistan leashed against the hindus over the last 60 years. Hindus were wiped out from Pakistan. They were close to 20% of the population and are now less than a percent, and the poor are still being murdered and openly seeking asylum from the brutality they face. Imagine when an educated Muslim in the West like Yasser uses words such as "Still spewing the same lies you shameless, lousy Hindu?? " How natural it is for him to use "Hindu" as an abuse!! Imagine that the same is in the text books of Yasser's country, where young children are taught that "hindus" are filthy and not really human. The same is done to Copts in Egypt, or the christians in Iraq, or the christians in Bethelem where the christian population has decreased from a majority to barely in a single digit percentage!!

What is the origin of such hate across the middle east, Pakistan, all the way to Malaysia and Indonesia? Why is it so difficult for even the educated and "moderate" Muslims like Yasser and Jihadist to even give a passing nod to the problem?

Keep that in mind when reading Eboo Patel. See if you can find a single column of Eboo where he remotely discusses the deeply imbedded hate for the non-Muslim in Islam. Instead the whine is always always of how they are being victimised.

Please read the posting of Yasser and Jihadist and see the psychology of Islam being played out.

"Isn't this funny, all these Ayyan Hirsi Ali wannabe's on this forum with their fake Ayyan Hirsi Ali stories."

- Yasseryousufi

*******************************************

Ayaan Hirsi Ali? The same one who claimed she is an atheist and yet suggested Muslims should be Christians.

Oh, there are also some ex-Muslims also become Christian missionaries and proselyisers in North America too - some who claimed to be former muftis' or imams' or mullahs' sons.

As for the Ayaan clones here, i.e. ex or former Muslims as claimed, what is striking is that, their "talking points" on Islam and Muslims are the same as those espoused by Christian missionaries and proselytisers who studied in universities such as Liberty U.

I've seen it in evangelical websites and blogs as well as Indonesian and Malaysian Christians saying the same in Indo-Mal blogs on religion. Indonesian and Malaysian atheists, like American atheists, thrash ALL religions and not just Islam and Muslims in such blogs.

The Ayaan clones here are just that - they posited themself as ex-Muslims, are self-characterised as or called by non-Muslim as "Muslim reformers" and in their, er, "reform" of Islam and Muslims, they spew out everything from the banning of the Qur'an to banning Muslims immigrating in the west to outright "destruction" of Islam and Muslims - whatever "destruction" means for them.

Jihadist,

Isn't this funny, all these Ayyan Hirsi Ali wannabe's on this forum with their fake Ayyan Hirsi Ali stories. I remember how Ayyan Hirsi Ali who was member of Dutch Parliament was thrown out of not just the Parliament but the country itself for lying about her past to get immigration. Turned out she never was never going to have an arranged marriage she supposedly ran away from. She made it all up. Call yourself a former muslim, hatch up a familiar story of atrocities and thats a sure shot formula for fame fortune and glory these days. Kafir is a perfect example. This crook says he left Islam because he was taught a science book that said world was just a few thousand years old. I challenged him on that and asked him the name of the book that changed his life. Till this day he squirms and scurries from one position to another without ever giving the name of that book. These Islamophobes wearing the cloak of "former muslims" think they'll earn more credibility without us ever noticing them. If a master liar like Ayyan Hirsi couldnt hide the truth from coming out despite her influential position, what makes these people think they'll get away with their lies.

Jihadist writes: "I have never seen so many "ex-Muslims" and "former Muslims" who claimed they were former terrorists, or former madrassa school graduates or Muslim scholars.

Their self-declared rabid fanaticism as pre-former Muslims alledgedly "taught" to hate non-Muslims seems not to be lost as current rabid ex-Muslims who hates, this time Muslims."

Jihadist is a Malaya. Malayas are deeply racist and have institutionalised the hate of non-Muslims in the laws of their land. Now Jihadist complains that the ex-muslims expose the evils of Islam and calls it "hate". Only a Muslim would confuse exposing the evil of something with the evil itself.
How many muslims have any ex-Muslim killed? Can Jihadist point to any example where an ex-muslim went around trying to commit mass murder? Now how many example does Jihadist wants to read about Muslims wanting to and trying to commit mass murder of Kafirs? How many apostates (that is ex-Muslims) have been put to death by Muslim states? How many ex-Muslims have been killed by the Muslim mobs before they even got to be in jail?

Only the hate that is embedded in a Muslim like Jihadist would allow the absolute disgusting equivalence between the ex-Muslim exposing the evil of Islam (because they know Islam very well) for the Kafirs who are unfamiliar with Islam, and the actual murder of apostates that takes place across the world in Muslim countries.

YasserYousufi writes: "Seems like you have spoken so many lies with regards to your fake identity that you have lost the plot totally. Do you want me to dig out that post of yours where you said you were taught a science book in your Madrassa that said World was just a few thousand years old and were roughed up by your teacher for asking too many questions. Thats why you decided to change your religion. I only asked you the name of that book. You come up with a new story regarding some old book in the library."

And how is what I said inconsistent with I said earlier? You are so filled with hate that you are unable to think at all. As I said, no matter what I will say you will find it unacceptable. You as a Muslim and Pakistani hate the hindus with a blind passion. You have expressed that hate multiple times. Pakistani Muslims have committed genocide against the hindus. They killed nearly 3 million in Bangladesh to satiate the blood lust of Allah, and it is not enough. They have killed tens of millions in their history and it is not enough. You merely reflect that hate. You are taught that hate. You grew up with that hate. I told you a long time ago, if you had been an Arab you would have called me a Jew (as Asizk does) and an Israeli agent.

It really does not matter to me, what you think of me. If you want to think of me as a Hindu so you can justify your feelings of hate for me, then go ahead think of me as a Hindu. Do you understand that you cannot stop me, or anyone else, from exposing the evil of Islam? Pakistan's best friend is China. Have you ever really heard what the Chinese think of your Islam? Have you ever read how they are handling the Muslim Uighurs in China? Talk to some Chinese and ask them what they think of Islam. You know what the Russians, the Japanese, the Europeans, the Latin Americans think of Islam. You of course know what the Indians think of your Islam.

I have never seen so many "ex-Muslims" and "former Muslims" who claimed they were former terrorists, or former madrassa school graduates or Muslim scholars.

Their self-declared rabid fanaticism as pre-former Muslims alledgedly "taught" to hate non-Muslims seems not to be lost as current rabid ex-Muslims who hates, this time Muslims.

So much for being ex-Muslims because, among other reasons, Muslims are all alledgedly "taught" to hate in their "manual" and in madrassas, and being ex-Muslims would free them from hatred etc.

Mr. Arif,

I'll take you for your word regarding being a former muslim for now since I am not in a position to pass on a judgment.

I am curious to know why you believe Islam will destroy the world? Do you associate yourself with any other religion or are you an Athiest now?

Arif2 has been posting for a long time, and yes he is an ex-muslim although Arif has never claimed to be Madrassa educated as far as I know.
---Kafir

Well I never asked for an explanation from you. But I see how this "I scratch your back you scratch my back" relationship works between you "former" muslims. Dont know much about about him but I kinda figured he was one of your ilk.

"Officially I covered the Sindh Textbook Board books for Class XI and XII. However, the library had an old book published in the 1940's or 50's by an American Publisher and the author was Campbell and I do not remember his first name or initials. I was the first one to check that book out and it was really the reason why I ended up in USA."
---Kafir

Seems like you have spoken so many lies with regards to your fake identity that you have lost the plot totally. Do you want me to dig out that post of yours where you said you were taught a science book in your Madrassa that said World was just a few thousand years old and were roughed up by your teacher for asking too many questions. Thats why you decided to change your religion. I only asked you the name of that book. You come up with a new story regarding some old book in the library. Again, a word of advice......give it up. Stop embarrassing yourself in front of everyone. Because I wont let you get away with your lies. As I said rant all you want about your hatred for muslims and Islam. I wont bother with you. Just stop this I am a former muslim crap.

Much of the world believes woman (I hate blaming man so much) is the cause of global warming, I on the other hand believe that Islam/Mohammed will destroy the world much before the globe warms.

Kafir is a kool, never mind what he is you loose your temper too soon and it shows.

*******************************************

And the above is the sort of hot air and emanating from men causing mental degradation, rising temperatures and ensuing global warming of tempers?

Never mind. Happy New Year to you.

Mr. Yasser,
I grew up in Pakistan mostly in NWFP (Nowshera, Mardan, Peshawar) and Punjab (Lahore)...would you prefer my street addresses too? While in college I visited Karachi several times to play tournments representing my University (UGC). My team stayed at NED university hostal Karachi some times and other plces at other times. Arif is my name so don't abuse it, I did work for the Jamaat-i-islami. My schooling education was mostly at english medium schools and then graduated from UET Lahore in engineering.
Much of the world believes woman (I hate blaming man so much) is the cause of global warming, I on the other hand believe that Islam/Mohammed will destroy the world much before the globe warms.
Kafir is a kool, never mind what he is you loose your temper too soon and it shows.

significance of AS SHURA.

1-there is no *Ancestorism* in the religion of islam ,moses is a messenger of islam ,jesus son of marry is a messenger of islam ,mohamed is a messenger of islam ,a long solid eternal chain of monotheism ,every one glorify and honor and obey one god the creator of this universe.

2-its about monotheism not tribalism.

3-as shura is about the fall of falsehood aganist monotheism ,moses honored it and mohamed honored it ,muslims honor what their monotheist muslim father IBRAHIM honored.

4-as shura is not about the mourning of al hussain ,al hussain is no more significant than his father ALY or HAMZA or the great companions of the prophet ,abou baker ,omar and othman ,again its about what the prophets and messengers of ALLAH honored and command.

4-tribalism and ancestorism is part and parcel of polytheism and juchristian/shirkism and those who follow their delusional theological and ideological heirs .

5-nothing fail mankind and nations like not following the command of the honorable messengers of ALLAH ,all honor what ALLAH command them to honor.

YasserYousufi writes: "By the whats with his name Arif?? Dont tell me you're also one of those Madrassa educated former muslims?"

Arif2 has been posting for a long time, and yes he is an ex-muslim although Arif has never claimed to be Madrassa educated as far as I know.

YasserYousufi writes: "Oh and Kafir, you still havent told me the name of that science book you bragged about being taught at the Madrassa. That should settle it. Prove it to everyone you aren't a quack who makes up stories as he goes along. Your google earth lame excuses wont work here."

You sound like you were educated in the English Medium Private Schools and so I am not sure you would be familiar with the poor education level I received. However, if you are then you should know that science text books are published by the provinces text book board. Officially I covered the Sindh Textbook Board books for Class XI and XII. However, the library had an old book published in the 1940's or 50's by an American Publisher and the author was Campbell and I do not remember his first name or initials. I was the first one to check that book out and it was really the reason why I ended up in USA. They ended up giving me the book because they did not see any use for it and the librarian Mullah wanted to be my 'special friend' as I found out later.

Yasser, this will of course not satisfy you, and you will want to know more. I will not pursue this any further because it really is of no interest to anyone else. There are more ex-muslims around than what you imagine. Get used to it. Islam is dying, and there is nothing you can do to save it. There is no way the muslims can silence the knowledge about the evil in Islam. Gone are the days when muslims could kill the critics. Although they are still trying. Todays news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12089543

Five suspected Islamist militants have been arrested for planning a gun attack at the Copenhagen offices of a Danish newspaper that printed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad in 2005, police say.

Six years later and they are still trying to commit mass murder over some silly cartoons. I love my freedom to speak about the crap in Islam and the web provides that freedom just nicely. I do not have to be stupid like Molly Norris or worry about some Mullah ringing my door bell and blowing himself up to meet his lovely houris.

Mr. Arif,

Nothing that Kafir says ever matters. He's a windbag who posts snippets from quack sites of people of his own creed. There is never an original piece of information in his posts. The fact that hie hides behind the false cloak of former muslim to gain credibility whereas its obvious to anyone on this blog who has been around long enough that he is indeed a Hindu. By the whats with his name Arif?? Dont tell me you're also one of those Madrassa educated former muslims?

Oh and Kafir, you still havent told me the name of that science book you bragged about being taught at the Madrassa. That should settle it. Prove it to everyone you aren't a quack who makes up stories as he goes along. Your google earth lame excuses wont work here.

"Give it up Kafir! You threw around an off the cuff lie, thinking no one will challenge you on the claim of being a Madrassa student from a far away country. Its just your bad luck that I happen to be around who is a life long Karachiite"

Does it matter where he's from? What Kafir says is much more important. Does it matter if he's Jewish or Hindu?
Yassar, you need to at least try to debunk what Kafir is saying. People care that Kafir is a person and not what he believes in or where he's from. By now you must have read many of Kafirs posts.

As a child your parents feed you your religion. As a youth you defend your religion, as an adult you have to think for yourself. Why die a drone?

YasserYousufi:

Read your posts. You make absolutely no bones about that you hate Hindus. You hate Jews. You hate Christians.

Do you think I care what you think of me? One of these days, maybe, just maybe, you will be able to see yourself first as a human and then as the full of hate Muslim.

As I keep telling you, feel free to say or write what you will about me. Fortunately, the laws and the technology allows me to keep exposing the hate and the evil that is Islam. You help with your posts. And for that, I do thank you.

Give it up Kafir! You threw around an off the cuff lie, thinking no one will challenge you on the claim of being a Madrassa student from a far away country. Its just your bad luck that I happen to be around who is a life long Karachiite. Your farcical position is transparent to me. I will have nothing to do with your useless rants if you dont go around spreading this Madrassa educated, Karachi born former muslim lies. So consider this a friendly advice, if you do not want me to shred your cloak and expose you for who you are stop repeating this lie.

Yasser writes: "Once again,I dont ask much name me a single street in Karachi you walked by? After all you lived a considerable part of your life there. Unless you dont answer that question do not ever call yourself a former muslim again."

Just one of the maps of Karachi:
http://www.apnakarachi.com/Karachi-Map.html

There are many many others available. Take as many names of streets of Karachi as you like. A hundred or a thousand.

Do you understand that no matter what I say, I can never convince you of anything. You will hate because I tell people about your Islam. As I told you before, feel free to think what ever you like about me.

hitman2,

"You maggets have spoiled this blog hence no decent person remains here for long."

Does that explain why you have been here for so long?

Go f yourself Kafir! You have no credibility. You are just ashamed of your religion of monkey and snake gods and drinking cow piss for religous cleansing. Once again,I dont ask much name me a single street in Karachi you walked by? After all you lived a considerable part of your life there. Unless you dont answer that question do not ever call yourself a former muslim again.

YasserYousufi writes: "Still spewing the same lies you shameless, lousy Hindu?? "

It is not only hindus you hate, Yasser. Islam hates all non-muslims. Above all your allah hates the Jews. Is that why Christians are burned and killed on a regular basis across the Muslim world?
How appropriate that you should use the language you do to make the news from your Pakistan real and understandable for the Kafirs here:

http://www.dawn.com/2010/12/27/hindu-families-seeking-asylum-in-india-2.html

"Mr Khan said that Hindus had been living in Balochistan for centuries, but in recent weeks several members of the minority community had been kidnapped or murdered, forcing them to seek asylum in India.
“As many as 27 Hindu families from Balochistan have sent applications to the Indian embassy for asylum in India,” he said.

You cannot help yourself, as most Muslims you were taught to hate the non-Muslims all your life. However, it is important for the Kafirs who have not dealt with Islam to know that side of Islam very well.

Islam hates the non-Muslims and teaches the Muslims to treat the non-Muslims as less than human, and the Kafirs can see that in the history of the muslim countries and see that in the present laws of the muslim countries, and can see that in the treatment of the non-Muslims in ALL of the muslim countries in the present.

I am an ex-Muslim. I do not know much about other religions, but I have studied Islam in my life.
---AKAFIR

Still spewing the same lies you shameless, lousy Hindu?? You say you grew up in Karachi and studied at an Islamic seminary, why dont you tell everyone that you cant name a single street in Karachi let alone the name of your Madrassa or the Science book they taught you there that you claim said the world was a few thousand years old? You write atleast a 100 anti-islami posts a day on this blog everyday? Do you think we're all that stupid that your evil self wont be transparent to us by now? None of your childish questions ever make sense. What makes you think an Islamophobe who hides behind his evil cloak gets to ask all the questions without revealing his true self or his motivation for this 24/7 baseless hatemongering?

Hitman2 writes: "Helcelz, Secular , Akafir

What you believe in? - is anybody's guess.
Hindus? or otherwise - but sure cowards!, who are ashamed to defend their own beliefs on this forum. "

Why do you have problems answering simple questions about Islam? What difference does it make who is asking those questions? Does a Physics teacher talking about physics want to know what the faith of his student is before he answers his questions?

I am an ex-Muslim. I do not know much about other religions, but I have studied Islam in my life. I am no longer religious. I do not subscribe to any religion. I do not have any problem with people who want religion as long as they keep it as their private belief. I am even fine with "secular muslims". However, I do understand the lies and the double talk that most muslims use to lie and fool the Kafirs very well. Islam refuses to accept the separation of religion and state, and wants to dominate the world, as enunciated by many many Muslims around the world. As long as that is the case, every Kafir (non-muslim) should be made aware that Islam hates non-Muslims and has treated them, is treating them, and will treat them as less than human.

"Similarly, all Muslims should mourn the death of the Prophet's grandson in such a horrific manner."

Muslims mourn the death of their prophet Mohammeds grandson, in this life what goes around usually comes around. The wars that Mohammed fought, him and his merry men would butcher Jews that they sacked then behead men, unift women and children who had matured. The girls they took as slaves and raped. It is also said that he (mohammed) in one of his "battles" took a liking to one of the Jewish tribal chief's wife. She was only 17, he had butchered her father tortured her husband and had blood all over his clothes. The man ( your prophet Mohammed) wanted to have SEX! sex with her after the horrific manner he had taken her husbands and fathers life.

No person is spared atrocitites they commit even though they may seem to get away with it in their life time as the muslim porphet mohammed did. This grandson was also related directly to imam Ali who was no saint either.

Helcelz, Secular , Akafir

What you believe in? - is anybody's guess.
Hindus? or otherwise - but sure cowards!, who are ashamed to defend their own beliefs on this forum. Therefore you adopted an easy course, to shamefully keep on attacking the faith and beliefs of others.
You maggets have spoiled this blog hence no decent person remains here for long.

Tasser, you are the one man who is the bigot and totally incapable of objective thinking at least when it comes to your favorite religion Islam. So stop your whining, I have known you the first post I read.

Secu-loray,

I was quite sure you will once again attempt to shift goal posts and scurry from one point to another when your bigoted falsehoods are pointed out. I will admit I didn't read your post beyond the first line. Your foul upbringing and uneducated self is transparent to everyone who's had the misfortune of debating you. So I know that post would be filled with usual expletives and non-sequiturs. With your silly arguments you will be kicked out of any real debate the moment you open your filthy feces filled mouth. So I dont need to waste anymore time indulging in a needless mudslinging match. After all what would anyone gain by throwing stones in a swamp??

Yasser, don't pretend that there is a unified Ummah of Islamists. There has been none sinec the moment desert tyrant died blowing his own breath on himself. The old goat believed in his own rubbish that when a muslim blows on a sick person after the namaz the sick get cured, utter pig manure.

The moment Abu Bakr became the caliph, the whinie Ali felt cheated from is natural inheritance. So there has never been any united ummah. only thing common is teh hatred for teh infidels among the ummah. There is no denying the fact that good 85 -90 % of the Iranian Islamists are Shia, likewise 90 - 95% of the Arabs are Sunni. So your claims that there are plenty of Shia Arabs, & Sunni persian is unadulterated pig manure. It is as genuine as to say that Jews recognize jesus because there are many Jew for Jesus folks. You are master of obfuscation. You are practicing the famous taqiyah. You are the charlatan here. You have always been a charlatan, as long as I have known you on this blog.

Secular, did you have your platefull of Cow Manure, watered down by the holy water of cow piss, food of your Hindu Gods? I'll have to admit, I hand over the business of determining manures to you since you've probably been dealing them since you were a kid.

Coming back to my post, what is it there you want me to educate you about? I said Shia and Sunni isn't an Arab Persian divide. There are Arabic speaking shias all over arabia, Karachi where I live is one of the biggest Shia cities in the world (a third of its 16 million people are Shias). You'd probably be aware of Shia's in India. Do they look Persian to you in any way? Similarly there are lots of Sunni's in Shia dominated countries like Iraq, Iran, Syria and Lebanon. One has to admire your shameless perseverence, after being called out so many times for your ignorance on subjects you know nothing of, you still wont budge. Perhaps its down to all the $ hit you consumed which has now found a permanent abode in your brains.

Its funny how people just want to broadcast their ignorance on these forums on issues they know nothing of. Their are Shia Arabs, Pakistanis, Indians, Egyptians, Central Asians just as their are Sunni Iranians, Iraqis, Lebanese and Syrians. Shia and Sunni aren't races! Its like these morons (all three below) will latch upon any opportunity to exhibit their hatred of muslims.

Posted by: yasseryousufi

Come on Yasser, please tell all the ignorant folk on this blog what is the Sunni/Shia split in Arab countries. Actually in all the Dar-ul-Islams sans Iran, Iraq & Bahrain? And can you also please inform the ignorants here the Shia/Sunni Splits in these excepted countries? Now that we know it is about 85/15 Sunni/Shia split in all the Dar-ul-Islam and the opposite in those other three countries don't you think you now look stupid. Actually you don't just look stupid, you are damn straight stupid and arrogant skunk with a head full of pig manure.

Testing

Yasser says:

"Its like these morons (all three below) will latch upon any opportunity to exhibit their hatred of muslims."
It is not enough that the WAPO Faith section looks like a Muslim missionary cite directed at an overwhelmingly Christian population, some like Yasser have the audacity to want to deny us the right to challenge some of what is being preached. This is because he and his ilk come from cultures that do not allow for freedom of thought and expression and use our freedoms to propagate their Bedouin cult. That is also why their cult lasted this long.

Muawiyah,Son of Liver Eater(his mother had eaten her rival's liver at battlefield) is the Real Murderer.Yazid was a Trigger Man who was tasked by Son of Liver Eater.
Karbala Event shouldnt be magnified too much and shouldnt be minimized as well.
Karbala Event is a page in History of Terror.It's an Example of Thousands in Culture of Violence which describes Six year-old Child Girl as Woman.

Let me remind you one thing.
The State which was founded by the Followers of Son of Liver Eater in Spain is being called and considered by some Jewkyl Men as Golden Age of Islam.

Can't the Arabs and the Persians just get along?

*************************************

Its funny how people just want to broadcast their ignorance on these forums on issues they know nothing of. Their are Shia Arabs, Pakistanis, Indians, Egyptians, Central Asians just as their are Sunni Iranians, Iraqis, Lebanese and Syrians. Shia and Sunni aren't races! Its like these morons (all three below) will latch upon any opportunity to exhibit their hatred of muslims.

Can't the Arabs and the Persians just get along?

The Muslim prophet used religion as a tool to build a dictatorial state headed by him and later by his two most faithful followers Abu Taleb and Omar. The relatives of the prophet looked at this endeavor as a family business and wished to pass on its leadership to their children just like any monarchy. The problem was that the family members could not agree on who is” more eligible” to be the king. Here was the beginning of an intra family feud that led to the Shia- Sunni schism. It is in short a squabble for power to rule the believers based on kinship to the founder of the dynasty. Even to this day many Muslim rulers derive their “legitimacy” by their alleged blood relation to the Arabian prophet.

Oh! So Yazid was a tyrant? The Sunni/Shia schism is just another blood feud between Ali's family and the one time nemesis of MO Abu Sufiyan. It is the whiner Ali had never gotten along with MO's other followers, including his dear & favorite child bride Ayesha. The whiney that Ali was tried to over throw Muwaiya from Syria when he eventually begged to become one after Uthman. In any case the Abu Sufiyan family had not forgiven nor forgotten Ali's good deeds towards them and then when the cards wer in their hands got rid of the Ali clan ones and for all. There are no heroes here just a bunch of power hungry thugs, killing each other.

What Rubbish.

In the 7th the barbaric invasions of Islam destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives. The death of those Kafirs were no more and no less horrific than the immoral womaniser Husayn, who had insulted his cousin Yazid the Ummayyad Khaliffa.

It is a political fight for power in the ruling arab family who were winning an empire that was to destroy many ancient civilisations and kill millions.

Why don't you talk about the horrific deaths and torture of the Kafirs caused by the barbaric butchers you mourn?