Farnaz,

The treatment of Norman by the Zionist lobby is far from an isolated case. As a woman of conscience and someone familiar with this subject you would be aware that character assassination of anyone who criticizes the aparthied policies of Israel (not Jewish people) to such an extent as to make him an example for others, is the weapon of choice for the lobby. That's my biggest argument against Hirsi Ali and her fellows (who foment hatred of muslim people not just policies of Islamic countries) that they have a huge incentive for doing what they do, whereas for Finkelstein and Co, they are condemned to live lives of obscurity and hardships.

Pakistan, I dont know what to say....its usually changing gear from one crises to another. Currently its the case of US (mercenary) Diplomat which I am sure you'd be familiar with by now. Obama I believe had a Colin Powell moment when he claimed before the world that the american was a diplomat only to be proved a liar when it came out that he was indeed a contracted blackwater operative. So the mood is pretty bad here. But whether that translates into anti-americanism for american people I dont know. Just this friday after the prayers there was a demonstration out side the mosque I go to by JI. And I saw a couple of white girls with kaffiyeh around their necks and cameras. When the crowd saw them they cheered and actually looked happy. They were with a Pakistani guy who was translating what was being said. So I don't know really.......your friends would be probably in a better position to tell you whether its safe to come.

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Islam gives women almost no rights and treats them like fodder for the male species as so bluntly noted by Ayaan Hirsi Ali in her autobiography, Infidel.

"Thus begins the extraordinary story of a woman born into a family of desert nomads, circumcised as a child, educated by radical imams in Kenya and Saudi Arabia, taught to believe that if she uncovered her hair, terrible tragedies would ensue. It's a story that, with a few different twists, really could have led to a wretched life and a lonely death, as her grandmother warned. But instead, Hirsi Ali escaped -- and transformed herself into an internationally renowned spokeswoman for the rights of Muslim women."
ref: Washington Post book review.

some excerpts:

p. 47 paperback issue:

"Some of the Saudi women in our neighborhood were regularly beaten by their husbands. You could hear them at night. Their screams resounded across the courtyards. "No! Please! By Allah!"

p.68:

"The Pakistanis were Muslims but they too had castes. The Untouchable girls, both Indian and Pakistani were darker skin. The others would not play with them because they were untouchable. We thought that was funny because of course they were touchable: we touched them see? but also horrifying to think of yourself as untouchable, despicable to the human race."

p.309

"Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just two regions (there are 20 regions in Holland). After that, people stopped telling me I was exaggerating."

p. 347

"The kind on thinking I saw in Saudi Arabia and among the Brotherhood of Kenya and Somalia, is incompatible with human rights and liberal values. It preserves the feudal mind-set based on tribal concepts of honor and shame. It rests on self-deception, hyprocricy, and double standards. It relies on the technologial advances of the West while pretending to ignore their origin in Western thinking. This mind-set makes the transition to modernity very painful for all who practice Islam".

Yasser,

HIrsi is far from alone. I would imagine that if I gave you a list of all those who, to use your word, "expose" the criminal nature of Islam as it is widely practiced, with accompanying documentation, we would have to "agree to disagree."

Norman exposes himself and his agenda in another discussion on YouTube with one of the architects of Oslo. I'll try to find the link. He's sloppy, as I have said.

I do believe that Dershowitz has no defense with his "book," with respect to what I understand to be acceptable scholarship. However, he DID NOT plagiarize, suffered not a whit from Norman's false accusations, and could have sued since he was falsely accused, publicly.

Moreover, Dershowtiz warned him repeatedly. Frankly, evening knowing NOrm, I could not believe he did not cease and desist.

He, personally, has exposed nothing. He has quoted one set of authors to disprove another. His use of archival sources is messy as the correction made by the Israeli professor and diplomat demonstrated.

We will agree to disagree, then. If you'd like I'll provide some links by Muslims who have a take on Israel and Zionism rather different from your own.

But, now, I would like to know how things are in Pakistan. I'm making one last effort to go and all I keep hearing back is pointing me in the direction of next January.

This gets curiouser and curiouser.

Farnaz,

I think we can agree to disagree on Norman. To me he is a man of honor. The same could scarcely be said about Dershowitz. I have no doubt that if he had a case he would definitely have sued Norman. Writing b*tchy letters to his employers and and lobbying to get him thrown out was infact the "overkill".

But you could not be more off the mark with your Hirsi Ali comparison. She is just a tool who doesn't have a brain of her own. No one in his right mind would ever consider her a scholar nor has she has a scholarly work to her credit. She was a nobody before her anti-islamic rants, now she has both fame and fortune and rubs shoulders with some of the best known islamophobes and Neocons of the world. Self Hating Jew or not, Finkelstein's crime is only that he exposes Israel and Zionism, how that translates into hatred of Judaism or Jewish people I do not know. Hirsi Ali's agenda on the other hand is well documented.

I think Dershowitz would have been guilty of overkill had he gone ahead and sued Norm. As for lobbying DePaul, he was quite within his rights to do so, but his letter was not the reason for Norm's not getting tenure there or anywhere else.

I know all about Norm's parents and deeply regret his Oedipal confusion. He's not the first nor will he be the last to seek his father's death.

The HOlocaust Industry was and is a moral mess that I'm not going to go into now. If we ever do meet, I will give you a copy of an article I penned not too long ago.

One of my favorite Norman remarks of the debate with Dershowitz concerns Germany being the "most moral of nations," at present. Tell that to the Turks among others. But the ad homs, I think, are what sabotaged him. He interspersed page numbers with hysteria, had done so before and did so again.

A brat and an egotist, his ability doesn't measure up to his arrogance. Dershowitz could have done much more with and to him than he did. Norm is one very lucky man in some ways. Sometimes, it's a good idea to know whom you are taking aim at.

Still, although he never was ivy league material, he could have had a reasonably distinguished academic career.

As for Zionists, the only reason prominent Zionists even know who he is goes to his debates with one or two extraordinary Israeli professors.

He is a self-hating Jew. The label is apt.

Now, Hirsi, on the other hand, is no self-hating Muslim. The list of non self-hating Muslims is at least as long as that of non self-hating Jews.

Islamists, of course, would disagree on whether or not the non is apt--in some cases.

I leave you to NOrm. Recommend a book: Cruelty in the Arab World.

"Why Norm can't control himself is easy to figure out."

I will have to agree with that. But I doubt any of it was due to the jealousy he felt towards Dershowitz being at Harvard. Finkelstein is the son of two actual holocaust survivors from Poland. His doctoral thesis was on Zionism and his primary field of research is the "Holocaust Industry" for that he has recieved a lot of flak from Zionists like Dershowitz. The fact that after Dershowitz was soundly thrashed in that debate he actually wrote a letter to DePaul University and lobbied to get Finkelstein's tenure denied, tells you all about the character of the man. If he had any, he would actually have gone ahead with legal proceedings that he warned of several times during the interview. Considering he is a Scholar of Law primarily, I think he would have realized he didn't have much of case against Norman when he called him a "fraud" and his book "plagiarized" with proof. So he took the easier b*tchy route, and utilized his zionist connections.

Depaul promptly complied with Dershowitz demand even though majority of the faculty objected to this. He is now without a job since. On the top of that he's branded a self hating Jew by Dershowitz and his fellow Zionists. That's enough to drive any sane person nuts. Just because a person is bitter doesn't always mean he is wrong. I can cite of the best minds on the planet as proof of that.

Yasser,

I'm not getting into the IDF, but I did watch the debate and Dershowitz didn't say what you accuse him of.

As I said earlier, I do NOT approve of what Dershowitz did with his book, and I look neither to him nor to Finkelstein for informtaion on Israel.

However, Dershowtiz did not plagiarize, and, in fact, warned the hubristic Norman more than once about his use of terms. Norman was and is far too arrogant for his own good. He's not stupid, but he's not Dershowitz, either. Dershowtiz was appointed to Harvard Law when he was twenty-five and tenured at twenty-eight.

Norman's ridiculous petty jealousy shimmered forth, as did his sloppiness. The unfortunate thing is that he was right, right in every way that counts. Why Dershowitz ever wrote his "book," I'll never know.

Why Norm can't control himself is easy to figure out.

As for me, I have no favorite Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or B'hai professor, although there are some I very much admire.

Then, too, there are atheists whose work I've enjoyed.

I.B. Singer's insistence that spirits or the like had hidden his passport for a year endeared him to me, but that is another matter.

Farnaz,

I dont really have a dog in this fight between two American Professors but believe me for a neutral its not hard see who was the guilty party in that debate. To say Israel never torchers nor kills innocents!!! and then quote IDF sources as proof, that alone should render the person irrelevant on the subject for life regardless of him being a Harvard Professor.

I have seen Finkelstein debate many other Israelis since then and to me he always comes out on top. So I will continue to hold him in the highest esteem until provided the proof to believe otherwise. But that's just me and this thread is not about Israel-Palestine. I am hoping some day Pamela Taylor will read one of my posts and clear up the issues I have brought up so many times.

Yasser,

I watched the youtube debate, and it all came back to me. Dershowitiz is correct that he did not plagiarize. This was also the view of Harvard University president, Derek Bok, and many, many others.

The particular practice in which Dershowitz engaged is one I, myself, disapprove of strongly, but it does NOT constitute plagiarism.

Dershowitz is also correct when he says that Finkelstein wages ad hominem attacks against him.

This is one of several problems Norman has always has. While he prides himself as being an "academic," continually proclaims his scholarly methods, he uses terms incorrectly, fails to acknowledge when Dershowitz is correct.

I still think he comes out ahead in this, but watching it again, I can see why others would not have. HIs obsession with Dershowitz's Harvard appointment, btw., did not do him any good in the academic community. Childish.
=====================
Academics have gotten away with worse than either of these two. Think of Edward Said's falsification, repeatedly of the house in which he lived. Falsified an entire history and did so over and over again.

Despite exposure in the times, the story's Said response of hysterical shrieking sans counter-evidence, Said remained at Columbia.

The real Islam as noted in the following list of koranic/mosque-driven acts of terror:

1a) 179 killed in Mumbai/Bombay, 290 injured

1b) Assassination of Benazir Bhutto and Theo Van Gogh

2) 9/11, 3000 mostly US citizens, 1000’s injured

3) The 24/7 Sunni-Shiite centuries-old blood feud currently being carried out in Iraq, US Troops killed in action, 3,481 and 924 died in non-combat98,691 – 107,707
Iraqi civilians killed as of 11/9/2010, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ and
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/casualty.pdf

4) Kenya- In Nairobi, about 212 people were killed and an estimated 4000 injured; in Dar es Salaam, the attack killed at least 11 and wounded 85.[2]

5) Bali-in 2002-killing 202 people, 164 of whom were foreign nationals, and 38 Indonesian citizens. A further 209 people were injured.

6) Bali in 2005- Twenty people were killed, and 129 people were injured by three bombers who killed themselves in the attacks.

7) Spain in 2004- killing 191 people and wounding 2,050.

8. UK in 2005- The bombings killed 52 commuters and the four radical Islamic suicide bombers, injured 700.

9) The execution of an eloping couple in Afghanistan on 04/15/2009 by the Taliban.

10) - Afghanistan: US troops 1,116 killed in action, 902 killed in non-combat situations as of 08/10/2010. Over 40,000 Afghan civilians killed due to the dark-age, koranic-driven Taliban acts of horror

11) The killing of 13 citizen soldiers at Ft. Hood by a follower of the koran.

12) 38 Russian citizens killed on March 29, 2010 by Muslim women suicide bombers.

13) The May 28, 2010 attack on a Islamic religious minority in Pakistan, which have left 98 dead,

14) Lockerbie is known internationally as the site where, on 21 December 1988, the wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 crashed as a result of a terrorist bomb. In the United Kingdom the event is referred to as the Lockerbie disaster, the Lockerbie bombing, or simply Lockerbie. Eleven townspeople were killed in Sherwood Crescent, where the plane's wings and fuel tanks plummeted in a fiery explosion, destroying several houses and leaving a huge crater, with debris causing damage to a number of buildings nearby. The 270 fatalities (259 on the plane, 11 in Lockerbie) were citizens of 21 nations.

15) Followed by the daily suicide and/or roadside and/or mosque bombings every day in the terror world of Islam.

16) Bombs sent from Yemen by followers of the koran which fortunately were discovered before the bombs were detonated.

17) The killing of 58 Christians in a Catholic church in one of the latest acts of horror and terror in Iraq.

18) Moscow airport suicide bombing: 35 dead, 130 injured. January 25, 2011.

This is the debate I was referring to

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-ndY4Rilyg

There are 11 parts of it, its a debate on the intellectual honesty of a plagiarised book written by Alan Dershowitz on Israel-Palestine issue.

Even when I read multicultural Muslims like Eboo and Pamela, I'm struck by how little effort is put into saying "Let's de-mythologize the Quran." Is there a Muslim equivalent of Bart Ehrman, Israel Finkelstein or John Shelby Spong? Is anyone trying to explain "The Quran is a piece of human literature, produced at a particular time and place. We should be trying to understand what the people's needs were that wrote this."

It's as if all Islam is a Christian "family" bookstore -- here is the literal Word of God and your rules for obeying it.

As Spong said, it's an embarassment that the type of business called a Christian bookstore is full of prejudiced attitudes, non-nurturing parenting advice and poor quality historical scholarship. There has to be an interpretation of the life of Muhammed somewhere between prostrate genuflection and Robert Spencer.

Then I must be thinking of another debate. I can't imagine Dershowitz would have debated him twice, but who knows.

Yes, I think you will like the tape. But it had nothing to do with Israel/Palestine.

LOL....whats the reading on the Richter Scale in New York? Its never too hard to stir you up. and you are dead wrong in saying that debate had nothing to do with AIPAC and Zionism. Look it up again. They discussed Israel and Palestine at great lengths in that debate. Almost everyone who is familiar with the modus operandi of AIPAC knows how they have mercilessly attacked from all sides and neutralized all their previous targets.

Btw I was actually serious when I said I am looking forward to seeing that debate between you and Prof. Finkelstein.

yasser, you mullah. You only named two people. You need to keep your postings straight in your Islamist head. Try blogging to one person at a time. That is more than enough for you.

You probably didn't notice that I agreed with you about Dershowitz and Norman.

But with me, he had a different problem Dershowitz was wrong. He couldn't win and he came off like a fool.

With me, he had several issues to debate and he couldn't hold his own.

Try to remember who you are blogging to.

Farnaz, that was such a typical Zionist response. All these people I named aren't idiots. They put their bread and butter on stakes exposing the clutches of Zionism and Israeli Lobbies in America. One has to be blind not to see that the US foreign policy is slave to the whims of Israelis. Just yesterday US vetoed a resolution in favor of Israel that had 14 yes votes out 15 in the UN Security Council. The rest of the world isn't as stupid as American people, and even they are catching up.

If you want to consider someone who squandered true brilliance and principle--he had both--Dershowitz is your man. But that was when his primary interest was justice and Constitution.

The young Dershowitz--his work, his writings--against those Norman could never, will never stand up. But that was not the man, Norman met.

It's odd how some people seem to disintegrate as they get older. I had only known him through his writing and when he suddenly emerged in the public glare, he was not the person he evidently was.

You are such an idiot, Yasser. He is of no consequence now because he messed himself up.

The debate, so to speak, with Dershowitz was no debate, and it had nothing to do with either AIPAC or Zionism, you moron.

Dershowitz was dead wrong from beginning to end.

He had nothing to do with Norman's demise. AIPAC probably doesn't know who he is.

You sound like an idiot mullah.

No offense.

I saw him tear apart that pesky, little, Zionist, Alan Dershowitz in a debate on youtube. Funny there were some comments that said it was Dershowitz who won the debate. So I will reserve my judgment until I personally see your credentials. Why not upload that tape on youtube?

I am actually not surprised that he is of no consequence in the US such is the power of Zionists and AIPAC. I read Deshowitz. the sore loser that he is, got him thrown out of the University he taught at and no University in US will take him in. Same fate has befallen other literary giants in US like Mearsheimer, Walt, Chomsky, Carter subject to vicious attacks by Israeli lobby hell bent on holding the US by the balls.

But I'm looking forward to you "slicing" Finkelstein to pieces. Its got to be an epic....

I not only have met him, but I sliced him to pieces. I have it on tape. When we meet, you will be surprised. I am very soft spoken, and cannot be baited.

He believes he deals in facts.

I deal in facts. He thinks he knows. I know. I have a reputation here, Yasser, not unearned.

He is no longer of any consequence in the US, but at the time of our meeting, I caused quite a stir.

I take people off guard by my appearance as well. In a way, I felt sorry for him in advance. On the other hand, he had it coming.

Where and when did you hear him speak?

Farnaz,

You talk up your friends too much. I might end up teaching them a thing or two myself. Personally, there is just one person I would like to meet whose courage I truly admire, if I ever go to America. He too is a Jewish Professor but I doubt you'd be too fond of him. I love hearing him, the commanding way he tears apart his detractors. His name is Prof. Norman Finkelstein. He's my Elvis!

Pakistani Aristocrats are known to show exemplary good manners, humbleness and humility in the company of foreigners, their true masters.....So if you really wanna show off your influential friends don't expect me to be surprised by them being overwhelmed in presence of a bunch of foreigners :)
------------------------
But he isn't foreign! He's a Pakistani national. You may know him, so I shouldn't go on. I'm sure they were extremely polite to him, but the woman, my closest friend, begged me to release her! It is true that at the time, he could be trying.

He also had not shaken the idea of a vendetta--it's a long story. At all events, he was and is brilliant, and a thoroughly decent person. This they finally saw, and then, too, he matured. He's very successful now.

I think the man will like you. He's very quiet unless he loses his temper. At such times the Richter scale reaches high levels in Islamabad. You must have heard about it.

She is insanely beautiful, gracious, passionate, cannot abide rudeness in anyone she doesn't know. You're quite right about manners, decorum. That is why you must not scream at them or tell them that anyone you disagree with is a Zionist and that sort of thing.

They don't blog, so language still means something to them. :)

She had insanely high hopes for Obama, smart as she is, and she is very smart. Hope springs eternal among the best and the brightest, I guess....

Even they could not find out why I among others had such a hassle about visiting your country. At all events, we're trying again for the Fall. Grants, funding are all in still in place for me. I just don't get what happened.

Pakistani Aristocrats are known to show exemplary good manners, humbleness and humility in the company of foreigners, their true masters.....So if you really wanna show off your influential friends don't expect me to be surprised by them being overwhelmed in presence of a bunch of foreigners :)

Yes, you might. I sent a Pashtoon student of mine to them, but I can't say more now. He drove them insane, but I begged them to make him welcome whenever he visited, and they did for my sake.

He is quite the comer, now.

I don't know if they are moderate or immoderate. But, I think you might think the latter. They are observant in every way, but they do not have a problem with gay people. OR, anyone else, really, except perhaps, your government.

It is interesting. I'm thinking now of my closest friends, not my closest "Pakistani" friends. They have been educated on three continents. Neither of them would ever want to repatriate.

It sound so ridiculous, but I so wish Pakistan could be free of all that encumbers it!

I have a beard sometimes, A la Johhny Depp! I have no problem meeting your friends, I might know some of them.

Yes, many thought it was him, many in India and in Pakistan. But, do you have a beard then? Is it permitted in the civil service?

I would like to meet you one day, and introduce you to my friends. But they are aristocrats, and you must not scream at them.

They are aristocrats, literally. Still, they are very nice.

Aah yes Dawood....the erstwhile Mumbai Mafia Don! Dont think anyone accused him for the bombings this time round though, no? This was a mass scale operation that could only be conducted by an intelligence organization with previous experience of pulling off such acts of Mass terror (9/11??)

Dawood Ibrahim

And you are an immoderate Muslim, then? Do you have a great beard? I always pictured you as clean shaven. :0

...oops, I meant modern muslim

Farnaz,

The world is full of surprises. However, Pam Taylor and Daniel Pipes relation isn't such a big deal. She absolutely fits into Daniel Pipes project of propping up "Moderate Islam" hence this Moderate Muslim~!

Farnaz,

I have no Idea whose wedding you're talking about. David Headley is the key terror suspect in Mumbai bombings according to Indians. Its common knowledge that David Headley was shielded by the CIA from Indians for a long time and only recently allowed access. The US Government refuses to hand him over to India and pretty soon he may be out of the Jail operating with a new identity and another alias.

http://www.countercurrents.org/mithiborwala181010.htm

http://aangirfan.blogspot.com/2009/11/mumbai-suspect-david-headley-introduced.html

Yasser,

Hello! Daniel Pipes?! And Pamela? What have you been smoking?

No, I did not make it, and I still don't understand why all the hassle.

How are things there now?

Yasser, you really can't believe some of what you write. I mean I literally cannot stand R. Hirschfield at times, but I wouldn't say his mentor was Ahmedinejad.

Besides, what makes you think Daniel Pipes supports gay rights?

He's not a simple man, btw., not by any stretch. But, that is beside the point.

Farnaz,

Long time! Thought you had finally made it to Pakistan. My issues with Pam Taylor aren't non-sensical at all. She has an agenda set for her by her mentor Daniel Pipes. She comes up with subtle distortions of Islam every now and then (not necessarily in this post). Now she is using this blog to market her Muslims for Progressive Values which like her previous indulgence the discredited and disgraced Progressive Muslim Union ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Muslim_Union ) attempts to turn Islam over its head by deceiving americans muslims unschooled in Islamic traditions to believe in a totally new religion in the garb of Islam. She never attempts to answer the questions I ask her, and that's also revealing of her agenda. So I will try to do my bit in warning other muslims to do some research about this woman before falling in her trap.

Oh, please, Yasser, we all know who was behind Mumbai. Btw., where is he now? It's been what--a year since his daughter's wedding?

Why do you deny 9/11? Osama Bin Ladin doesn't deny it.
---Danielinthelionsden

Actually Osama never claimed credit for it nor denied it. You must be referring to the fake Osama video that CIA now concedes it had doctored to show Osama taking credit for 9/11. Why would CIA doctor an Osama video??? Meanwhile a CIA contractor is under arrest in Pakistan caught red handed recruiting terrorists and killing 3 innocent people (the jokers at State Department claim he is a Diplomat, for once Pakistani's have had enough of American lies). There is also the case of David Headley, also a CIA operative charged in the Mumbai attacks blamed on Pakistan. You should probably take out some time listening what Jesse Ventura (former Navy Seal) says about the machinations of CIA all over the world. It would be hard to disentangle CIA with terrorism even for someone like you, and that says a lot.

It would be nice if Muslims stopped murdering the Ismaeli Shiia. There is, at present, only one nation in which they enjoy full civil rights, and they are fierce patriots.

Want to tell your readers the name of that country, Pamela?

Yasser,

How are you? You've got to end this nonsense with Pamela. She's American. I generally disagree with her, and would like her to say something about the now Judenrein Middle East, Muslim antisemitism in Europe, etc.

You have your agenda for her, I mine.

But in America, you can either be a homophobic lunatic, like some clergy--Muslim, Catholic, and, unfortunately, Jewish--or human.

I honestly believe if you could live here for a year among highly literate respected Muslims, you just might see that it is not evil to accept difference and practice Islam.

We are not living in the seventh century nor are we living with Moses, PBUH. By the way, the acronym was used for Moshe, long before Mahammad was born.
--------------------------
On another note, how are things in your country?

I haven't blogged here for awhile, but I did keep an eye open for your posts.

Farnaz

Liars….USA Lying Media…..Shame on you……or would it appropriate to call you sameless…..

Watch below freshly exported freedom by Obama, previously by bush ...."either you are with us or against us......I will be back....again and again and again.....

Two US main political parties, Bush Or Obama belong to same butcher dictatorial regime. Very few controlling their own masses and destroying others.
No one become President in US without acceptance from Star of David.
Real Face of US Zionism,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxiWHbvkBLs&NR=1&feature=fvwp

Posted by: Mooody
------------------------
Get lost, Doody, before I call Immigration and have you deported to Fata, slob. Learn English, Islamic dolt.

Mooody

Why do you deny the Holocaust? Germany doesn't deny it.

Why do you deny 9/11? Osama Bin Ladin doesn't deny it.

You can't stand the truth. You are eat-up with lies. Why should anybody pay any attention at all to such a hypocritical bigotted lying heckler, like you?

You claim to be a loving person. But you are filled with bitter hatred.

You take offense at my criticisms. Boy, is that IRONIC! All you do is run down and crtiicize EVERYBODY.

You hate Jews, Christians, Hindus, and atheists. You hate Europeans, Americans, and Indians.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe the problem isn't "everybody else?" Maybe the problem is you.

I size you up to be a self-hating Muslim woman, who has been brainwashed by your masculine handlers to mouth all of your mean-spirited propoganda.

Well, guess what? You are not convincing or converting anyone over to your perverted way of thinking. You are instead showing yourself as a perfect example of the what we should all avoid becoming.

Good luck with your crippled English reply. Just say any foolish words that come to mind; they don't have to make any sense at all; just babble nonsense; that is your speciality.

Yasseryousufi

Once again, you are demonstrating your sexually repressed bigotry.

Women are only good for one thing, and otherwise should stay in their place.

And gay people should all be killed.

I feel very sure that the source of your homo-phobia derives from your very own repressed homosexuality.

Of course, the protportion of your outrage to my discovery of your hidden truth will demonstrate the truth of the matter.

Behold O' ROCK O' SABRAite/iSRAELite NATION!
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Hear O' Kafir-Nations, Help Contain Nazi-ISLAMi!
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DEATH to THEOCRACY in Mid-East & Elsewhere!
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D-E-A-T-H TO "AL TAQIYAH" & AYATOLLAH UMMAHs!
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LEAVE THE SABRAites & Friends Alone O’ Jealousy!
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O'Blind "SATANIC-VERSUS" Lovers of ISLAMi Umah!
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LET THE “A-B-R-A-H-A-M” Religion Go, O' Hijackers!
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D-E-A-T-H To WAHHABi'S & AYATOLLAH'S Monarchy!

O' Jealous-TURKEY Jerks, HAMAS HEZBOLLAH & CO.!

The Five Steps To Deprogram 1400 Years of Islamic Myths:

( –The Steps take less than two minutes to finish- simply amazing, two minutes to bring peace and rationality to over one billion lost souls- Priceless!!!)

Are you ready?

Using "The 77 Branches of Islamic "faith" a collection compiled by Imam Bayhaqi as a starting point. In it, he explains the essential virtues that reflect true "faith" (iman) through related Qur’anic verses and Prophetic sayings." i.e. a nice summary of the Koran and Islamic beliefs.
The First Five of the 77 Branches:
"1. Belief in Allah"

aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc. should be added to your cleansing neurons.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Evolution and the Big Bang or the "Gi-b G-nab" (when the universe starts to recycle) are more plausible and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you continue to be a "crea-tionist".

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item for neuron cleansing. Angels/de-vils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hitt-ites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ug-ly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as f–airies and "tin–ker be-lls". Modern de-vils are classified as the de-mons of the de-mented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in the spirit state of Heaven (if there is one) just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the un-educated masses in line. Today we call them for-tune tellers.

Prophecies are also invali-dated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him)
alone."
Mohammed spent thirty days "fasting" (the Ramadan legend) in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy thingy". Common sense demands a neuron deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic vi-olence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallu-cinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.
Walk these Five Steps and we guarantee a complete recovery from your Islamic ways!!!!

Unfortunately, there are not many Muslim commentators/readers on this blog so the "two-minute" cure is not getting to those who need it. If you have a Muslim friend, send him a copy and help save the world.

M A H A B A Rrrr. (Hello):

More HINDU & More BUDDHIST involvement is needed in Middle East Politics, Not Religion, is the right Way to Go, FOR (Genuine) 'Healing of Nation's & 'World Peace', the Prophecy Come TRUE(opposite MYTHs).

Liars….USA Lying Media…..Shame on you……or would it appropriate to call you sameless…..

Watch below freshly exported freedom by Obama, previously by bush ...."either you are with us or against us......I will be back....again and again and again.....

Two US main political parties, Bush Or Obama belong to same butcher dictatorial regime. Very few controlling their own masses and destroying others.
No one become President in US without acceptance from Star of David.
Real Face of US Zionism,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxiWHbvkBLs&NR=1&feature=fvwp

"Pamela, I fully concur with your sentiments. The problem in the Muslim world today is that the Wahabbis, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda have hijacked the discourse on Islam."
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Isn't it Islamic doctrine that the Quran was dictated word-for-word by Allah to Muhammed, in Arabic and cannot be accurately translated? If one starts with that premise, it's difficult to image it ever becoming anything but a stagnate belief system.

Take away the Quran, Hadiths and adoration of Muhammed as the model human being, and Islam would be Unitarianism -- there's one God who wants us to behave morally, act charitably to our fellow men, and create a just society. I suspect Pamela interprets Islam pretty much that way.

But real Islam is rooted in the culture and values of seventh century Arabia as interpreted and enforced by warlords. It's difficult to imagine that becoming a modern, universal, knowledge-based society.

Pamela, I fully concur with your sentiments. The problem in the Muslim world today is that the Wahabbis, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda have hijacked the discourse on Islam. The majority of Muslims in the world, especially in the developing world, have little secular education and have learned their "Islam" from madrasas and from khutbas in the mosque, usually from a mulla or imam who has not completed high school. Further, most of these global madrasas - whether in Indonesia, Philippines, Pakistan, Sudan, somalia, etc.- are financed, sponsored and staffed by the Saudi wahabbis, who propagate their myopic, extremist and literalist interpretations on the unsuspecting Muslim youth. Until this changes, there is little hope for unity in the Muslim ummah...These "Muslim" hypocrites who differentiate between Sunni, Shia, Ismaili, Alawi, Bohra, etc., and kill each other should understand that there is ONLY ONE definition of a Muslim; one who accepts the Shahada, "there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is His messenger". The rest of Islam and indeed the Holy Qur'an is open to pluralistic interpretation and practice.

It is a losing argument to try and oppose Koranic traditionalists by quoting from the Koran. There are equally compelling verses and stories to support them, such as Mohammad himself assenting to the execution or expulsion of Jews in Medina. The Prophets actions in Medina are not magnanimous like his words in Mecca, nor are his actions towards those who disbelieved when he actually had power to do something about it. I think it is far easier to try to appeal to ideas of modern human rights, which tend to be both concise, comprehensive, and consistent. Trying to rip apart the Koran to fit this view might work (as it has with the Bible), but its far better to make the case for human rights on their own, without encumbering it with the notions of a man who was perfectly happy to butcher those who disagreed with him.

The Book of Allah says:

The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger,and strive with might and main for MISCHIEF THROUGH THE LAND is EXECUTION or the CUTTING OFF of HANDS and FEET from opposite side 5.33

The Religion of Allah is the Culture of Submission.You shall submit to Allah and His Messenger.

The Religion of Allah doesnt accept Dissident,Opposition and Mischiefmaker.

-Iranian Cleric call Execution for the Protesters.Yes,he is right according to Quran.
-Ahmadi and Ismaili can be considered as Mischiefmakers.

...and at times been criticized heavily for those views from people who argue that Muslims must safeguard their faith. I believe instead, that these people need to expand their understanding of God, of faith, and what it means to be a believer. God calls him/herself Merciful, Compassionate, Responsive, Listening, all-Encompassing. It's foolish to think that excludes people simply because they don't follow the rituals of a particular faith, or because they approach God in their own heart-felt manner.
---Pamela Taylor

Ms. Taylor, I am not second guessing your intention regarding this organization that you have co-founded. I am not interested in the verbal sophistry you indulge in from time to time on this blog all the while hiding your real intentions and beliefs. You will do the Muslims on this blog a favor by clearly stating the positions of yourself and your organization's, on the following matters.

1. Does your organization support re-writing the Quran to support American
sensibilities?

2. Are you for legalizing Homosexuality in Islam?

3. Are you against oppressed muslims doing Jihad to set themselves free from the clutches of occupiers in Palestine, Afganistan, Iraq, Kashmir etc? or do we throw out Jihad as well?

4. What were your views of US attack on Iraq?

Sura 2:256 gets quoted so often in English that even _I_ know the number by heart. How often is it cited in its original Arabic?

Pamela's version of Islam is noble, but not real. She's taken the values of a 21st century feminist and added the supernatural part only of an ancient faith, the way many American women adapt Wicca, Yoga or Gaiaism to modern values.

Islam as practiced by complete societies, is at its heart a religion made by and for military men, who consider it a form of loyalty in their land, and don't really distinguish interfaith from treason.

Muslims are confused and for very good reasons. Islam derives its rituals, ideology and philosophy from the Quran, the Hadith (sayings attributed to the Muslim prophet) and Sira (the bibliography of the Muslim prophet). All three have internal contradictions. Some among the Muslims try to remove those confusing contradictions by eliminating whatever in Hadith and/or Sira that contradicts the Quran. They justify this attitude by claiming that much of the Hadith and Sira was unauthentic and was slipped in there by Muslims with special selfish reasons. The Quran on the other hand is “Allah exact words” and should be the final arbiter. The problem is there are more contradictions in the Quran as well. The part that was written in during the first part of Mohammed’s mission has a completely different theme than the one written later in Medina.While you could find some somehow tolerant verses in the early part there is none such verses in the latter.