Church, state and abortion: Don't let dogma dominate

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FREE-AD by APOCALYPTARIAN-PARTY, U.S.A., 1972
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Note: WE[i] art nay Mormons. Yet Always Respect Them!
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This is a terribly disappointing commentary, because Dr. Lynn thoughtlessly falls into the trap of assuming that the only arguments against abortion are religious, and that therefore separation of church and state settles the question. Frankly, I expected better of him.

"I am heartened by the recent failure of an anti-abortion law in WYOMING, one of the most conservative states. Female conservatives stood up for conservative values of small government over the religious right's desire to meddle in private decisions. I hope these women take their message nationally and help break the hold of the religious right on the Republican Party."

This is an excellent point. It's a conflict we will probably continue to see grow as the various wings of the Tea Party - political conservative (small government), fiscal conservative, and social conservative - start disagreeing on the nuts and bolts of how to do business, and what the primary goals are.

I don't care what the bumper sticker says (or the Church) a Fetus is NOT a child; Abortion is NOT murder; a pregnant person is NOT a mother; and CHILDREN SHOULD BE CHOSEN. "Life begins at conception" and the government wants to get onboard with church doctrine? Fine, remove those zygotes and raise them on government farms (we'll see how "alive" they are).

Here's another FACT for you: 65% of women who get abortions in this country are already moms! Smile, there’s a 65% chance your mother chose abortion because she wanted to make sure she could take care of her already-existing children, i.e., you.

o Bottom Line #1:

The failures of the widely used birth "control" methods i.e. the pill and male condom have led to the large rate of abortions ( one million/yr) and S-TDs (19 million/yr) in the USA. Men and women must either recognize their responsibilities by using the pill or condoms properly and/or use other methods in order to reduce the epidemics of abortion and STDs.

Bottom line #2-

Currently, a perfect barrier system does not exist. Time to develop one! In the meantime, monomasturbation or mutual masturbation are highly recommended for heterose-xuals who need a contraceptive. Abstinence is another best-solution but obviously the sex drive typically vitiates this option although being biological would it not be able to develop a drug to temporarily eliminate said drive?

Abortion is just the current version of slavery. In this case, a human person, the fetus, is denied the right to a free life, because another human person, the mother, has decided they are less than human.

Should the government have the right to forbid slavery????

Most folks seem to forget the Margaret Sanger created Planned Parenthood as a way to get rid of black babies and reduce the numbers of blacks. So the question is, how well has that worked? The answer is, very well.
-------------------------------------------
In 1930, the USA had about nine whites for every black. Today there are five. Differential abortion rates have not prevent blacks from out-breeding whites.

'Most folks seem to forget the Margaret Sanger created Planned Parenthood as a way to get rid of black babies and reduce the numbers of blacks. So the question is, how well has that worked? The answer is, very well.'

I've noticed that the anti-choice, pro-religion crowd is now playing the race card more and more to make their point.

In fact, they've been very successful in Mississippi, where legal abortions FOR ANYONE are all but unavailable - there may be one Planned Parenthood clinic left in the entire state - or not.

Women seeking abortions are pretty much required to leave the state, at much greater expense to themselves....especially for women that can least afford it.

It's comforting to know that theocracy is alive and well in Mississippi - the poorest state in the union. And now their governor is sucking up to the black population as he makes his play for a spot on the presidential podium. Talk about a day late and a dollar short! H. Barbour is really a master of both hypocracy and hubris all in one fell swoop......

Since abortions are voluntary, and are a legal right, resurrecting the whole eugenics business yet again is really a red herring of the first order.

Most folks seem to forget the Margaret Sanger created Planned Parenthood as a way to get rid of black babies and reduce the numbers of blacks. So the question is, how well has that worked? The answer is, very well.

Once again:

Considering the abortion and STD epidemics (one million and 19 million cases per year) in this country alone, Planned Parenthood, parents, sexually active couples, and the educational systems have/are failed/failing miserably.

As another poster pointed out, for the GOP to advocate de-funding Planned Parenthood is so bizarrely counter-productive to reproductive planning and the overall avoidance of abortions, that we can only assume that republicans in congress are now actually as stupid as their constituents. Strange but true.....

An elected official should always be at least one step ahead of the folks that elected him or her - this is apparently no longer the case.

I really think republicans are on the verge of extinction - their DNA is similar to that of a mule.....they can screw (the voters) all day long without actually reproducing. This is indeed a blessed day.

Barry Lynn is correct in saying we need separation of church and state regarding decisions about reproductive health care. It's time for elected officials, and members of the clergy, to stop practicing medicine without a license!

Planned Parenthood is a respected organization, and conservatives in Congress can't have it both ways. If they want an end to abortion, then they shouldn't defund one of the main providers of contraception.

I am heartened by the recent failure of an anti-abortion law in WYOMING, one of the most conservative states. Female conservatives stood up for conservative values of small government over the religious right's desire to meddle in private decisions. I hope these women take their message nationally and help break the hold of the religious right on the Republican Party.

As far as Planned Parenthood goes... They have seriously shot themselves in the foot with their lack of controling employees who condone child prostitution/trafficking etc. Until they clean up their act... they should ask for money elsewhere. I, for one, who is pro choice in the first half of the pregnancy, do not want any of my tax dollars to go to an organization that is not strict against child sexual abuse on every level. Sure, there may have been some rogue employees... but I have a hard time believing it.

I am not religious but do also not like cruelty. I don't like cruelty to animals and to be intellectually honest I also then have to take a stand against cruelty to a fetus/unborn child since it is a being at the time where they can sense pain and suffering. For anybody who studies fetal and child development there is science that shows when certain things have developed in a fetus/unborn child. A substantial brain development must occur in order for pain to occur and that takes over 20 weeks of development and likely occurs at the beginning of the third trimester. The latest studies done by scientists in England and other countries have shown this and they are not placating to a 'Religious Right". It's about science!

It's not about religion. To not like the use of later stage abortion as birth control in times like this with other options available is not just a 'religious thing'. It is about ethics and yes, people who are not religious can also be ethical. In progressive countries like the UK and Sweden, they don't allow abortions in later weeks.

I am Swedish and it is not a religious country so to simply say that this is a matter for those only on the Religious Right is ignorant. In Sweden they follow the current "Abortion Act of 1974". This states that up until the end of the eighteenth week of the pregnancy the choice of an abortion is entirely up to the woman, for any reason whatsoever. After the 18th and until the 22nd week a woman needs a permission from the National Board of Health and Welfare to have an abortion. Permission for these late abortions up to week 22 is usually granted for cases in which the fetus or mother are unhealthy.

Being Pro-Choice does not mean you have to throw any and all decency out the window. Abortion should not be a political or religious issue. It should not be used for fundraising on the left or the right. There has to be somewhere in between where people with differing opinions can meet. For me, I think cruelty of a being that can feel the pain and suffering as determined by the brain's development says it all. Why not follow those progressive countries so many Democrats want to emulate in other matters?

"Yeal9, those numbers - and the number of back-alley abortions - would be much, much higher without Planned Parenthood."

Actually, the numbers would be much, much lower if sexually active men and women would simply follow directions on The Pill and condom packages.

The Guttmacher Institute notes that the perfect use of the pill should result in a 0.3% failure rate (35,000 unplanned pregnancies) and for the male condom, a 2% failure rate (138,000 unplanned pregnancies).

For added details, see the previous statistics on the annual abortion and STD rates (epidemics) .

Barry Lynn clearly demonstrates that Separation of Church and State is crucial to gender equity. This article focuses on Catholics and fundamentalist Christians, but a recent article by Lee Ann Cox, points out that gender inequality is correlated to religiosity across religions, and independent of economic factors. The more religious a society, the more its policies contribute to gender inequality. Read the article here: http://www.uvm.edu/~uvmpr/?Page=news&storyID=11600&category=uvmhome

"The world doesn't need unwanted children. Too often they grow up to be unhappy adults."

Amen. Better dead than unhappy. In fact, unhappy people should probably be killed, because they detract from the overall happiness of the species.

Lynn is right. I am not a catholic or a conservative christian and want my medical and psychological decisions to be between my doctors and me, based on our joint decision about what to do. In a past marriage, as it was falling apart, my wife became pregnant. We decided on an abortion and neither of us has ever been sorry. Soon after we ended our marriage, neither having to stay together for the sake of the child or raising the child in a one parent family, nor, worst of all, raising a child we resented. My wife and I didn't need any barriers to abortion. The decision we made with our physician and counselor spared us and that unborn child from a life of strife. Doesn't that have any bearing on this issue?
The world doesn't need unwanted children. Too often they grow up to be unhappy adults. My two very wanted children are healthy contributing members of society. I need no religious counseling to substitute for the wise secular advice I received as we made this important decision.
Each of us should be able to make this very serious decision free of religious interference.

I often wonder if anti-abortion activists are more concerned with human life or women's sexual choices. It seems to me that they find promiscuity morally wrong, and want to scare women away from that sort of lifestyle. If abortion was illegal, that sort of behavior would be easier for them to control with fear. A fearful population is an obedient and submissive population. Just the place christians want their women...controlled, obedient, submissive.

Goes beyond the seperation of church and state to full on reproductive slavery.

I'm sorry but I have come around to agreeing with my professors in Constitutional Law that Roe v. Wade is bad law. Not only that, but it did great harm to the women's movement in this country and stopped the progress of the ERA. Support just wasn't there anymore once Roe v. Wade was decided.

If Roe was to go away now, we know that the only women adversely affected would be the ones primarily in the rural Bible States. Women outside the Bible Belt have more access to adequate Middle Class residences to supply Middle Class taxes to provide real education and not that fake crap they teach in places like Texas and Kentucky where we get horrible politicians like the Paul's father and son team in Congress.

If Rand Paul's daughter is raped by her father and wants an abortion, but can't because the only clinic near their home is in Northern Virginia, so be it. Too, Boo, Hoo, Bad!!!! No sympathy from me.

I know you want us to separate religion from government Barry, but in the case of abortion, the KOCH Suckers are way too libertarian, which in their speak, means that the government should get off everyone's back and crawl up their birthing canals. It can't be religion that motivates them cause they are all Ayn Rand Atheists who don't have a selfless bone in their bodies.

No Taxation for the Rich,
No Middle Class left living in America,
and absolutely under No circumstances should there ever be any rights for Women, which is why we refuse to sign CEDAW,
All Women and Children should live in poverty and total degradation!

That is the KOCH Suckers motto.

While I don't get why ultra-conservatives feel the need to impose their beliefs on the entire population, I do believe everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. That is their choice, but then shouldn't we all have a choice? Eliminating Planned Parenthood would just add to the problem that everyone is trying to avoid - the need for abortion in the first place!

Barry -- you are definitely on the right track. Planned Parenthood provides a valued service to many women, especially many young women. It's not right to impose such a strict views on everybody and especially on those who do not believe it.

I wish we could have Justice Stevens back!!

I couldn't agree more with the Rev. Lynn. It's really getting ridiculous how much our lawmakers are using their religious beliefs to get into our personal lives. Enough is enough.

Yeal9, those numbers - and the number of back-alley abortions - would be much, much higher without Planned Parenthood.

So why do the epidemics of abortion and STDs continue:

From the Guttamacher Institute:

FIRST-YEAR CON-TRACEPTIVE FAILURE RATES

Percentage of women experiencing an unplanned pregnancy

Method Typical

Pill (combined) 8.7
Tubal sterilization 0.7
Male condom 17.4
Vasectomy 0.2

Periodic abstinence 25.3
Calendar 9.0
Ovulation Method 3.0
Sympto-thermal 2.0
Post-ovulation 1.0

No method 85.0"

(Abstinence) 0

(Masturbation) 0

The failure of the Pill as noted above results in one million unplanned pregnancies every year because women basically fail to take it once a day as prescribed. Is there a literacy problem that Planned Parenthood failed to recognize?

The failure of the male condom results in another one million unplanned pregnancies every year basically because many men, as per Guttmacher, fail to use them even though they have them in their pockets or billfolds.

Then there are these additional facts:

from the CDC-2006

"Sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) remain a major public health challenge in the United States. While substantial progress has been made in preventing, diagnosing, and treating certain S-TDs in recent years, CDC estimates that approximately 19 million new infections occur each year, almost half of them among young people ages 15 to 24.1 In addition to the physical and psychological consequences of STDs, these diseases also exact a tremendous economic toll. Direct medical costs as-sociated with STDs in the United States are estimated at up to $14.7 billion annually in 2006 dollars."

and

http://pagingdrgupta.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/20/yes-oral-sex-is-sex-and-it-can-boost-cancer-risk/?npt=NP1

"Yes, oral sex is sex, and it can boost cancer risk-

Here's a crucial message for teens: Oral sex carries many of the same risks as vaginal sex, including human papilloma virus, or HPV. And HPV may now be overtaking tobacco as the leading cause of oral cancers in America in people under age 50.

"Adolescents don’t think oral sex is something to worry about," said Bonnie Halpern-Felsher professor of pediatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. "They view it as a way to have intimacy without having 'sex.'"

Obviously, Planned Parenthood, parents and the educational system have failed miserably on many fronts.