Surely a Mormon can be president

@Vanka "These are not lies. These are facts. These are not taken out of context. They are true, accurate, and reliable." Who is the Mormon Jesus exactly? Is there an Evangelical Jesus, a Catholic Jesus or an atheist Jesus too? Anyone can research the baloney you write and find out for themselves that you are writing lies and taking things out of context and exaggerating AND omitting facts so as to obfuscate the truth-we all get it-you despise the Mormon faith, think poorly of it's followers and you know how to copy and paste. The hours you waste here copying and pasting the same repetitive words over and over say much more about you than they do about the people you endeavor to put down.

@INUTAH Really? I'll just let your words stand on their own merit or lack thereof-you poor thing. Let go of all that hate.

The "facts" being written here are no more reliable than schoolyard or beauty salon/barbershop gossip. In your quest to paint mormons as ignorant misguided bigots, you unwittingly cast that light upon yourselves. That is your right however and no Mormon can ever take that from you.

Mormons try to make us believe they are "really nice people", but their history as well as current events contain facts that show it is all veneer - all keeping up appearances (like a wolf wearing a nice wool sweater).

Mormons will quote their "Articles of Faith" and other scriptures from their "Standard Works" in an attempt to convince you they are "mainstream" and Christian.

But we know from history that Mormons believe the word of their living leaders above scripture, and they are not above "lying for the Lord".

Case in point: The Mormon Church leader told all Mormons to "do all you can" to fight against same-sex marriage (Prop 8 in
California). This despite the fact that LDS scriptures clearly state:

"It is NOT JUST for religions to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied" (D&C134). This shows without doubt that Mormons and their leaders will violate THEIR OWN sacred scriptures and principles when it suits them.

Even polygamy was continued secretly for around 10 years after LDS Church leaders lied and swore to Congress that the practice had ceased in the Church (see Quinn).

This means that not only will common Mormons lie for the Lord (the Church), so will the Church leaders! Even under oath to Congress!

So stop denying what your Church really is: a secretive, elitist, imperialistic cult aspiring to "put an end to all nations", and rule the world for a thousand years when "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" that the Mormon Jesus is in charge!

It is written clearly in their Temple oaths and covenants that members are expected to give all their possessions and use all their positions and opportunities ("everything with which the Lord has blessed you or may bless you") for the building up of the LDS Church. This includes oaths to give one's life for the building up of the LDS Church. That is an explicit oath regarding a willingness to "give one's life" (suicide) for the Church.

These are not oaths to do good, or to die for God or Jesus, in some abstract, harmless sense. These are radical oaths and covenants of loyalty to the Leaders of a Cult Church! In the Temple recommend "catechism", Mormons covenant that they sustain the President of the LDS Church as "the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all [God's] priesthood keys?"

The LDS Temple ceremonies at the time Mitt Romney was "endowed" included graphic depictions of cutting one's throat, disemboweling oneself, and other acts of suicide as a penalty for revealing the secret oaths and failing to be faithful to them.

These are not lies. These are facts. These are not taken out of context. They are true, accurate, and reliable.

The last thing this country needs is a cult-member in the White House!

FREDJ1, any number of things can be floating around on the Web, but we must have a means of evaluating those comments, and that would be to compare them to the source.

I am one who actually doesn't mind LEGITIMATE criticism. I don't mind listening to other perspectives. In fact, if I were evaluating a product or service I think it is instructive to listen to what the competitors are saying about the product. It will give me something to consider. But the criticism must also be evaluated for its validity. If someone posts a bunch of garbage, then those who know can expose it as such. Just having a bunch of different opinions floating around doesn't mean they carry the same weight. False and misleading statements can be tossed aside as soon as they are exposed. Many of the posters here are simply inviting the masses to do a little research rather than taking the vitriol at face value.

@Rom08,

"To avoid boring people with the details, I will just say that Mormons do not believe that prophets are infallible"

Joseph Smith's fallibility is not typically a concern of non-Mormons since the latter are hardly going to accept him as a prophet in the first place. I rather imagine that is _exactly_ how you feel about Branch Davidians, their 'prophets', and their sect as a suitable source of Oval-Office candidates.

"If people want to know what Mormons believe they should ask a practicing Mormon, don't you think?"

I'm sure that you would not suggest that a balanced view of Soviet History is best had by speaking only with the Party faithful and the Polit Bureau, or relying on Pravda.

A simple "Google" will find a wide divergence of opinion about the LDS religion, its history, and its 'prophets'.

Jacob5, go back to Sunday School. You obviously don't understand the concept of a prophet. Apply your understanding and let's assume you lived in the Old Testament days of Elijah (that would be Elijah THE PROPHET). I see that you would feel a need to warn everyone about anyone with SO MUCH POWER, right?

"Oh no!", you would say, ,"This man has absolute authority to speak for God and can nullify any previous scripture or commandment! This man can override any scripture in the Mosaic Law! If you follow Elijah then you would have a duty to obey his words as if it was spoken by God himself! He can tell you to do something contrary to the social upbringing you've had! If one of Elijah's followers were to become King over the land, look out!, the King will actually be under Elijah's control. Elijah's words will hold more weight than God's own words! And by the way, Elijah is obligated to proliferate his religion. He has a duty to invite others to serve God rather than Baal. He must be stopped! I will never support a follower of God because of this guy Elijah who has so much power. Can you not see how extremely dangerous it would be?!!"

Get a grip, Jaccob5, read the scriptures and find out how prophets REALLY operate, how they simply follow God in attempting to spread His gospel and manage the affairs of His earthly kingdom under His direction. Also, just for fun, read in the Book of Mormon how righteous followers of Christ actually governed when they happened to be in the top governmental position. You remember King Benjamin don't you? Alma as Chief Judge? Mosiah?

Jacob5,

The concerns you express about the Mormons are vast oversimplifications on both counts, and are in some significant ways inaccurate. To avoid boring people with the details, I will just say that Mormons do not believe that prophets are infallible, and the separation of religious and civic authority is clearly set out in their scriptures and is an important part of the Mormon belief system.

Surely you will admit that just because you went to church with the Mormons as a kid doesn't make you any kind of authority about their religion. If people want to know what Mormons believe they should ask a practicing Mormon, don't you think?

Being raised Mormon (LDS) my self, I can tell everyone from first hand experience, that there are doctrines taught by the LDS Church that should make any person wary of electing a Mormon for president.

Even though Mormons are some of the most kind hearted and good people I know, here are the two main reasons I will never vote for a Mormon president:

1. LDS doctrine teaches that there is a man alive on the earth today (the LDS Prophet) who has absolute authority to speak for god and can override and nullify any previous scripture or commandment. They believe that the current LDS prophet has the authority to override any scripture even the word of Christ in the Bible, and that all LDS people have a duty to obey this prophets word as if it was spoken by god him self.

This means that if we have a Mormon president that he will still be under the commands of his LDS prophet who could tell him to do something against all scriptures in the Bible, and go against his own moral conscience, but he would be obligated to follow, because their doctrine dictates that it is not possible for their prophet to guide them astray. Their doctrine also dictates that their current prophet's words holds more weight than any previous prophet or scripture even including the words of Christ.

2. The LDS doctrine dictates that eventually everyone on earth will fall under jurisdiction of their own Mormon holy priesthood, and that the order of their holy priesthood is the only uncorrupted form of Government. They also believe that they have a duty to proliferate this priesthood to all the earth. They even make secret oaths inside their "temple" that obligate them to proliferate their religion and priesthood. A true Mormon believes that it is their duty to bring everyone into their religion as theirs is the only true religion, and thus bring everyone under the government of their religion.

These two things together mean that if we have an LDS president who truly believes in LDS doctrine, that there is another man on earth who has the ability to control him and that he has a duty to obey, and that he also has the duty to bring others under this jurisdiction of the LDS priesthood as well. This seems very dangerous to me, because when we elect a Mormon president, we're basically electing electing 2 men; the man formally elected, and their prophet who they believe is hierarchically above them in command. Does this not sound extremely dangrous?

LDS prophets have shown them selves many times to go against the laws of the land, such as many of their prophets that participated and taught polygamy event though it was illegal in the USA. Their prophets also have many teachings which they say supersede Christ's teachings in the Bible.

I personally don't understand how they can teach that an imperfect man such as a prophet can override the teachings of the only perfect one to ever walk the earth, Jesus Christ, but that's not a secular issue, where as the others issues above are.

Being raised Mormon (LDS) my self, I can tell everyone from first hand experience, that there are doctrines taught by the LDS Church that should make any person wary of electing a Mormon for president.

Even though Mormons are some of the most kind hearted and good people I know, here are the two main reasons I will never vote for a Mormon president:

1. LDS doctrine teaches that there is a man alive on the earth today (the LDS Prophet) who has absolute authority to speak for god and can override and nullify any previous scripture or commandment. They believe that the current LDS prophet has the authority to override any scripture even the word of Christ in the Bible, and that all LDS people have a duty to obey this prophets word as if it was spoken by god him self.

This means that if we have a Mormon president that he will still be under the commands of his LDS prophet who could tell him to do something against all scriptures in the Bible, and go against his own moral conscience, but he would be obligated to follow, because their doctrine dictates that it is not possible for their prophet to guide them astray. Their doctrine also dictates that their current prophet's words holds more weight than any previous prophet or scripture even including the words of Christ.

2. The LDS doctrine dictates that eventually everyone on earth will fall under jurisdiction of their own Mormon holy priesthood, and that the order of their holy priesthood is the only uncorrupted form of Government. They also believe that they have a duty to proliferate this priesthood to all the earth. They even make secret oaths inside their "temple" that obligate them to proliferate their religion and priesthood. A true Mormon believes that it is their duty to bring everyone into their religion as theirs is the only true religion, and thus bring everyone under the government of their religion.

These two things together mean that if we have an LDS president who truly believes in LDS doctrine, that there is another man on earth who has the ability to control him and that he has a duty to obey, and that he also has the duty to bring others under this jurisdiction of the LDS priesthood as well. This seems very dangerous to me, because when we elect a Mormon president, we're basically electing electing 2 men; the man formally elected, and their prophet who they believe is hierarchically above them in command. Does this not sound extremely dangrous?

LDS prophets have shown them selves many times to go against the laws of the land, such as many of their prophets that participated and taught polygamy event though it was illegal in the USA. Their prophets also have many teachings which they say supersede Christ's teachings in the Bible.

I personally don't understand how they can teach that an imperfect man such as a prophet can override the teachings of the only perfect one to ever walk the earth, Jesus Christ, but that's not a secular issue, where as the others issues above are.

Religious BIGOTS are alive and well in this modern day of enlightenment, amazing.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people have such vitriolic feelings towards the Mormon faith and its members. I could probably guarantee that not one of you have ever bothered to SINCERELY find out what the Mormons really believe as your comments are so full of hate and contention!

One correction from the article. Our church is NOT called the Church of Latter-Day Saints, but IS The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints. Those who CHOOSE to believe in its teachings have NOT been 'bamboozled' as many of you here claim. While many of us have been raised in the church, every single one of us have to come to know for ourselves if what we've been taught is true.

If any of you truly, sincerely, honestly want to know what we believe, then please go to the ONLY OFFICIAL sites: www.lds.org for the LDS doctrines or www.mormon.org if you want to see what every day regular Mormons think and believe. Click on "Our People" and then click on "Meet Mormons". There you will find thousands of profiles where we answer questions that have been asked by people not of our faith. You will see what makes us happy or sad, what strengths or weaknesses we have, what challenges or triumphs we have experienced, etc. Basically--you will see that we are just like you.

If you don't want to believe in our doctrines, that's totally fine. But I ask that you PLEASE stop all of the horrid, hateful, deragatory comments I've read here. What is it accomplishing? Absolutely nothing! It only proves that Satan (the father of ALL contention) has a very strong grasp on your soul.

President Gordon B. Hinckley, 15th president of the LDS church and now deceased, said many times: "Bring all the good you have with you and let's see if we can add to it." So I ask that you give us a fair shake and do it with a honest, sincere effort. If you still don't want to believe as we do, that's okay! But please don't condemn us for having different beliefs than other Christian faiths.

Thanks for 'listening'.

Wow. I am constantly amazed at how much animosity there is out there about religion. Its unfortunate that religion and Politics collide as they do. Instead, American's should look at the accomplishments of the man/woman running for office. What is their track record? What important things have they done to soidify their political standing? What is their character like? The word "mormon" should have nothing to do with all of this. inutah...your ignorance floored me and is laughable. All of you who talk about Kolob, skygods, men in white robes, etc, make yourselves sound like fools becuase your information is so convoluted. You take a small peice of truth and twist it so much that you make Mormons look like idiots. I assure you that your "so called" facts are incorrect. Lets stick to the real facts and not heresay. It really bothers me when people go off spouting things that they know nothing about. Learn it for yourselves people, not from the "stories" swirling around out there by ignorant bitter people who know nothing about our real beliefs. LDS.org is a good site for doing your own research. As with anything political, do your research and choose the candidate who most likely will run the country with the values, goals, and credentials that you want in governmnet. That is how I will vote. Religion will not make any difference in my decision.

FredJ1,

Thank you for making my point more effectively than I did.

Having grown up in Alabama, watching on Sunday mornings as a child the endless fundamentalist Christian programs on TV led by evangelists engaged in a deplorable con to take innocent people's money, yes, I regard the founders of Mormonism as the instigators of a con that unfortunately in many respects, continues today.

Well done, minions!

Another article has been published with the word "Mormon" in it, and you have dutifully jumped into action, savaging the Enemy with all manner of half-truths, outright lies, misunderstandings, misrepresentations, and name-calling.

But be careful... some of you are going overboard. As I have instructed you before: if you make your rantings TOO outlandish, many normal, intelligent people will discount your efforts. Some will perceive the incongruity of your biased rhetoric and what they see in the lives of Mormon's with which they are familiar. Some have even been led in this way to investigate and even join with the Enemy forces! So beware, my dear associates, but press onward.

-- Screwtape

Most Americans know little about the Mormon faith because they WANT it that way. The LDS church at any given time has 50,000 young men and women out knocking on doors practically begging people for the chance to take an hour and share our basic beliefs. I should know, I did it myself. The Church has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in education centers across the country, a world-class website (lds.org or mormon.org) and thousands of buildings where people might attend a service on any given Sunday. PLEASE! Come and see what we are all about if you want to know!

As for Mr. Romney's personal, deeply held beliefs, how closely do we grill ANY of the candidates on this? And when certain belief systems are described in certain ways, anybody can sound crazy. (Rapture, anyone?) A much better question is whether or not a person's belief system has a positive impact on their character and their qualities as a leader. Whether or not a man prays when he gets out of bed in the morning is perhaps not as good a test for public office as to how much compassion he displays toward other people.

I am NOT a conspiracy theorist, or even a Republican, but I still remain convinced that Mr. Romney was railroaded by the Christian right back in 2007. His well-organized and well-funded campaign couldn't compete with the late entrance of Pastor Huckabee and his occasional, and very pointed jabs at Mr. Romney's religion. Every state with an evangelical stronghold went for Huckabee over Romney. Dividing the Christian right ultimately paved the way for McCain's loss. Once the south had mostly voted, Huckabee pulled out, having clearly filled his mandate (from whatever higher power was pulling the strings) to defeat Romney. The Christians instead got an absent father with an adulterous past who has such a volatile relationship with his current wife that leaked reports after the campaign are shocking.

Essays like the one above just further stoke the fire over what should really be a non-question. In the process, Romney left the governorship of Massachusetts where he might have still done much good work, and the US lost a very fine and perfectly suited ambassador to China.

This is actually a fascinating discussion; however, it shows the depth and breadth of ignorance of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There is some truth amongst these comments, but much that is utterly ridiculous concerning this wonderful church.

To find out the TRUTH about LDS teachings, please go to the correct source: lds.org.

Back to the actual topic here, I think Mr. Romney is a good man who could probably do a lot of good as president. My concerns don't have to do with his religion, which I subscribe to, but with his very conservative beliefs. In the past, conservatives have worked against unions, allowed the wealthy huge tax breaks (think of the last Bush), and weakened environmental laws. It's interesting that in Bush's home state of Texas, the chromium levels in the water are 12X higher than in the next worst state. It's very carcinogenic, and it contaminates the water in the northeast part of the state. But they want to stay friendly to those industries!

And a few posts I'd like to address:

@kenkyle: You are so right! I am a pro-life, conservative Democrat because I feel it more closely matches LDS teachings from the Book of Mormon and the Bible.

@kkrimmer: "You want to know about being a Mormon? Watch Glenn Beck." This is ABSURD! Beck is ignorant, racist, divisive, and just happened to convert to our church a few years ago. The leaders of the church have said that Beck doesn't speak for the church; he definitely doesn't speak for me! Read "Tears of a Clown: Glenn Beck and the Teabagging of America." He's an entertainer who is making big money by appearing as a pseudo-journalist; he puts mentholatum under his eyes to cry!

@LOL1: Pres. Young was referring to REVELATION from God, and there has been and will be more of that.

@inutah: It's unfortunate that you've had negative experiences there; I think it would be difficult to live in Utah. You should move to another state if you hate it there!

@alinstl: I am sorry that you talked with someone who was so ignorant of LDS doctrine! This is a world-wide church with members of ALL colors. And not all in heaven will be members of the church on this earth - the prophet Joseph Smith received a revelation where he saw that many who had died without receiving the gospel were there.

@tommyH9999: It's obscene that 1% owns 34% of the US wealth - this was made possible during the GW Bush administration. Read about how he accomplished this and you'll see that it's not the "American way." It's special treatment for the rich!

I always find it interesting that so many conservatives in our church are Republicans, when their party would never nominate a "Mormon." GW Bush was a Baptist who thought that way, and look at all the LDS voters who helped elect him!

Yes, the GOP will take Mormons' time, money, and volunteer work, but they won't nominate them for the presidency.

While the LDS Church maintains a policy of political neutrality for the most part, not even allowing political parties the use of their meeting houses officially, it does get involved in political matters it considers morally based.

Way back in 1976 the LDS Church issued a statement opposing the Equal Right Amendment, “We recognize men and women as equally important before the Lord, but with differences biologically, emotionally, and in other ways. ERA, we believe, does not recognize these differences. There are better means for giving women, and men, the rights they deserve” (“First Presidency Issues Statement Opposing Equal Rights Amendment,” Ensign 6 [Dec. 1976]:79). Members of the LDS Church soon followed their leaders dictates even ex-communicating outspoken members on this subject after this statement by LDS leaders had been made.

Again in the 1980s the LDS Church spoke up on what it deemed a moral issue, that of national defense. It was during the height of the cold war during the proposed development of the MX missile system.

The importance of this topic cannot be underestimated, while it is true the use of weapons of mass destruction are of moral significance and any religion has the right to decry such abhorrent methods of destruction it should be noted that once the LDS President spoke the members followed in line with what the “churches” decision was, no-matter their previous inclinations and no-matter their governmental standing. “With the most serious concern over the pressing moral question of possible nuclear conflict, we plead with our national leaders to marshal the genius of the nation to find viable alternatives which will secure at an earlier date and with fewer hazards the protection from possible enemy aggression, which is our common concern” (“First Presidency Statement on Basing of MX Missile,” Ensign 11 [June 1981]:76).

Again the LDS Church spoke publicly, on national issues helping to support California’s Prop. 8 by having LDS members donate time and money to the passage of the bill that stated. “only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.”

The repeated point in all of these political motions is that when the LDS Churches leadership, their prophet speaks all debate in Mormondom is over. Good LDS members follow the prophet. I for one find this antagonistic to the republic and contrary to a good and well working democracy. Again while the LDS Church for the most part does maintain politically neutral on many issues it does from time to time become involved as is the right of most groups and organizations. My concern is that if an LDS member becomes the President of the United State and has formal or informal discussions with his “prophet” at what point does the LDS Church have undue influence on the politics and direction of this great nation.

If you were in the market to buy a Ford, would you go to Chevrolet to get accurate information on Ford? As you read these comments on Mormons, maybe look more carefully at the comments by people who actually KNOW something about Mormons, rather than those that have an agenda, whatever it may be, against Mormons,

"If he knew how loyal Mormons are to the Founding Fathers, he would know what a valuable ally Mormons are in protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic."

That's a bit overblown, don't you think? Patriotism isn't about hyperbole and imaginary correlations between Mormon culture and the Founding Fathers - who frankly would have found Joseph Smith and his religious fabrications absolutely repugnant, had their respective lifetimes coincided.

Patriotism is about putting on a uniform and _serving_ (serving your country, not your church).

I'm going to assume that you would rather not discuss Mitt Romney's service?

Thanks for this fair treatment of the issue.

Years of bigoted anti-mormon work have yielded the fruit that those who most share American values and are a valuable ally in preserving America are viewed with suspicion, while those who would destroy America in the Obama administration have come to power.

The preceding comment by LOL1 who has not been to the temple and thus has no first-hand knowledge of the foolishness of his statement are proof that bigotry is still alive and well in America. If he knew how loyal Mormons are to the Founding Fathers, he would know what a valuable ally Mormons are in protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic.

I’d like to offer a rebuttal to INUTAH’s obvious lies. I’m one of those Mormons she hates so much from Utah. She must not have seen the HUGE investment of time and money the church puts into education, employment resources, and welfare for both its members and non-members. She is probably not aware that church members volunteer their time to staff countless farms, canneries and storehouses to produce cans of food and stock the shelves of grocery stores where the needy shop FREE every day. This is quite the opposite of the picture she paints of a greedy church and its starving members.

In all my years I’ve never been taught that 2012 will be the end of days. Not sure where she came up with this one...,instead, I’ve been taught that the Savior said: “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:26)

She is correct that we believe in prophets, just as those who followed Moses believed in prophets. What a wonderful thing to have an anchor amid so many conflicting voices.

She is also correct that Just like in Jesus’ time, women do not perform ordinances where priesthood authority is required. However, they do RECEIVE these ordinances and blessings in equal share.

Obviously the church does not promote the degradation of women - I’ve been taught all my life (in church) to be a kind husband. To share in the work of raising children, to be an example to my children of how a good man treats his wife. I have been taught since my youth to avoid pornography like the plague and to revere womanhood. I have been taught to control my temper and have been offered help if I struggle with such things. I have never met a woman who resents these teachings. Yet she blames this same church for domestic violence???

I find her comment about carbon footprints to be ironic since just this year a new chapel was built near my home in Utah with hundreds of solar panels. In a 12 month cycle, this building actually contributes more electricity to the grid than it pulls.

I’ve never been told to avoid reading non-church materials. Instead I’m taught to seek wisdom out of the best books, and to seek as much education as I can get.

And of course, as you know if you’ve met a mormon, we’re far from “sneaky or secretive” about our beliefs. In fact, we’re eager to share our beliefs…sometimes to a fault.

Mitt Romney is an active member of this same church. He has been taught these same principles and has even COVENANTED to follow these principles. Then again, hasn’t anyone who has been baptized a christian covenanted to do these things?

Now...just because Mitt Romney is an active Mormon doesn't mean I think he's right for President of the United States. For that I'll need to learn more about his political positions, his abilities, experience, foreign policy objectives - topics beyond the scope of this discussion and (sadly) beyond the interest of most of its participants.

Well, I don't believe in 'religious tests for office,' but I won't vote for a theocrat pushing a right-wing agenda, either.

The LDS have lost all minority-status sympathies with their constant, virulent, and deceptive political activities against the civil rights of others, and Romney in particular has lost any credibility as someone who will not pursue a theocratic agenda after he dug up that obsolete and overtly-racist anti-miscegenation law in order to deprive LGBT Americans of our rights under the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

He was elected in Massachusetts on the specific promise he wouldn't be imposing that social agenda, and broke that promise the moment the Religious Right made him an offer.

If the Mormons want to appeal to pluralism, then they shouldn't choose bigots as allies in imposing their social and political agendas.

@BECCA29

"But the fact that indirectly you'd accept a Southern Evangelical Baptist or some other religious sect and their beliefs over a Mormon. Draws the fact that you're bias only extends to Mormons and their beliefs. It's a hypocritical double standard to say the least."

Perhaps its merely the case that, having recognized the obvious fraud of David Koresh, Jim Jones, and the whole family of North American religious con-men, Kim4 has placed Joseph Smith and his Mormon "church" amongst his fellows.

That's not hypocrisy, that's categorical inclusion.

Kim4.

How do you define, common sense?

Mormons would easily say that their is a good deal of wisdom and brilliance in the Book of Mormon. Islamics would state the same thing about the Koran and Hindus about the Bhagavad Gita. Their is beauty that can be found in all these books. The problem is that what you deem as irrational and hooey is to many their refuge and strength in the spiritual realm. I've read most of and parts of others in my life. Enough to know that the truth of spiritual beliefs is subjective.

But the fact that indirectly you'd accept a Southern Evangelical Baptist or some other religious sect and their beliefs over a Mormon. Draws the fact that you're bias only extends to Mormons and their beliefs. It's a hypocritical double standard to say the least.

Well, becca29, I'm not sure about the hypocrite part, being a secularist and all. But you're right - my comment was quite biased - in the direction of common sense.

Christianity may well have its own pot full of hooey. But at least there are the writings of a good many folks more than a group of four or five guys sitting around a campfire, having a few drinks and making things up as they go.

I'm no fan of organized religion, but I will say that the Bible is well worth reading - for its wisdom and even brilliance in some parts - parts which have very little if anything to do with believing in a Christian god or any god at all.

I found it funny, during the 08 Republican primary, that of all the candidates only the Mormon didn't have a second wife.

YOU WANT TO KNOW ABOUT BEING MORMON?
WATCH GLEN BECK.

Beliefs inform as to state of mind: how could the nature of those beliefs _not_ be important in selecting Presidential candidates?

Jim Jones, L. Ron Hubbard, Jim Baker, Jim Swigart, Bagwan Shree Rajneesh, Ted Haggard, etc, etc, etc: pick your "prophet" and his followers.

Are we to uncritically accept those who embrace and support nonsensical claims?

Due diligence says otherwise ...

@kim4-

Then I assume you won't be voting for any Christians since they believe silly things like, oh, a virgin birth, raising people from the dead, healing someone by touching them, a person coming back to life after 3 days and then ascending to heaven 40 day later?

Kim4

you post....

>

Then you post but I won't vote for someone who believes etc. etc.

You're a hypocrite. Their are a several people that might say the same about someone who is Christian, namely secularists and those who want nothing to do with religion. They would claim that anyone who believes in Christianity has "loose screws" and no way would they vote for them, for the safety of the country etc.

At best your comment is biased or you have a very hypocritical double standard.

i am much more concerned about what a presidential candidate will do once president than i am about his or her religious faith.

I will not vote for a Mormon for public office. It has nothing to do with religion - religious freedom is essential in a democracy, and everyone should be free to worship however they want.

No, it has to do with the fact that anyone who believes that a married charismatic skank received religious doctrine from God in a forest in the 1800s with his pals' say-so providing the only 'evidence' that this ever, ever happened - anyone who believes that this happened and subscribes to a religion derived from this 'event' - is missing a few screws.

A Senator missing a few screws? Well, okay. But our president. Just won't go there.

inutah You are a nut job and a half. You are so clueless about the Mormon Religion that your silliness leaks from every word you wrote. Stop guessing and find the facts

If Mitt is able to get into a LDS temple he has what is called a temple recommend. One of the requirements of a temple recommend is wearing special underwear called temple garments. It is not so much as those garments are ridiculous as what they represent. They represent a church that is worth 44 billions dollars while many of the faithful here in Utah live in poverty-shopping at the local Macey's stores with their 7 spirit babies in tow while barely being able to put diapers and milk in their carts. Yet they are still giving money to the church and when they need help they have to go begging and are humiliated. By Mitt wearing his special underwear he believes that when the 12 white guys in their white coats (the Quorum of 12) get up and announce the end days (Mormon believe it is in 2012)he has to give up everything he owns...car, house, 401K, land, checking account, absolutely everything to the LDSchurch. He has been told all his life to not talk about these things because the outside (gentiles) world doesn't understand. He also has been told the that the voices that come out of the Quorum of Twelve mouths is the actual, physical voice of God.
LDS Women in Utah are looked down upon even though the men say that is not true. Verbal and domestic violence is still rampant. Women are exhausted because they have these huge families and are expected to be perfect. In baby blessings, only the men participate on the stage. The women sit in the pews crawling after their other 3-9 babies.
They create a huge carbon imprint by building extravagant churches and temples that are empty the majority of the time and are constantly heated and cooled to a perfect temperature.
Church and state boundaries are crossed all the time. The book of Mormon has been read to my children in high school. They have practiced school events (choir) in the seminary building next to every school. My children have been bullied because they are not Mormon. LDS people are told not to read material out side of the church material, so consequently children in the schools are not informed and consider they only know what is truth. Racism is huge even among what is considered the educated here in Utah.
When we moved to Utah, I thought "no big deal" about the LDS church. 13 years later, I have realized it is a creepy, megalith of a multi-level marketing system that somehow got by with brainwashing people. It is insidious here and has it's fingers in everything. LDS members are taught to be ambiguous in their responses to any questions about the church. So, I cannot imagine anyone voting for someone who participates in such an ugly, sneaky, secret organization....they will say they aren't because of all the good they do, but it is always, and I mean always, done with the intent of sucking people in. If Mitt Romney has his temple recommend, it means he believes the LDS church is his life. I cannot in good conscience vote for for someone who would support such an organization.

So let me get this straight. Instead of judging Mitt Romney by the things he has actually said and done in his life, I should judge him based on a collection of quotes and beliefs from a bunch of other dead Mormons?

Is that what you are saying?

Really?

Are you latter day apologists of LDS, nuts? Why do you even think that LDS is anything but moronic nutso cult? How do you give any credence to a group of people who come out in the 1970s and announce that their Sky-Daddy revealed to them "starting now blacks are people too". I have two questions for you kool-aid drinking fools 1) do you really think the, so called, church elders were telling the truth or making up the cow manure they were trying to feed? If your answer is to the above is they indeed got a revelation, then why do you think their Sky-Daddy changed his mind after so many years since creation?

All religion is stupid lies. Some are more than others but not materially different from the others.

Despite political & religious diatribe by the uneducated…

Romney has successfully and profitably managed large businesses, created more private sector jobs and saved more private sector businesses (Domino’s Pizza & Staples, to name a few) than any other candidate. He knows and understands world economics.

He has succeeded at every job he has had. Yes, that’s right, he is not a “Career” Politician.

Funny. Half of MA loves what Romney did, the other half hate him, maybe because he left after completing only one term. Again, he has not been a “Career” Politician.

Yes, he worked as the MA governor for his entire term for FREE!!! Who would do that!?

MA had a huge deficit when he started, and he left MA with a surplus and balanced budget without raising taxes at the end of his term. Who has done that? He can't help it if they screwed up after he left.

Since states have their own rights as to how they operate, “Romneycare” never has been the same as “Obamacare”! MA’s super Democrat controlled legislature wanted desperately some kind of Universal Health care program. Romney, a republican, worked with them to create one that would work, similar to mandated auto insurance (what state allows you to legally drive without insurance?). It is estimated that 98% of the residents are now covered. Romney wanted the requirement that everyone should pay something towards it with no exceptions, and it was within projected budget, until Romney left and the state super Democrat controlled government made changes to the program and now it is costing them.

He compromised on some things in order to keep the state government working together and moving forward.

He turned around a struggling 2002 Winter Olympics and made it into one of the most profitable Olympics in history. And only took a $1 dollar salary. Who would do that!?

He is against federalization & big government. Believes in state’s rights.

He lives the example and believes in the importance of family.

He is for a strong military and believes the borders should be better protected.

The list of real positives is far greater than the supposed list of negatives.

It's not ok to make broad generalizations about someone based on their religion unless they're Muslim. Everyone who has read one of these blogs should know this by now.

Wow. A lot of people are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel. You will never find another human being on the planet whose religious and political beliefs exactly match your own. The key is to work together for the common good. For more info about what Mormons actually believe: http://www.jewishjournal.com/jews_and_mormons/item/mormon_qa_for_the_upcoming_presidential_election_39110210/

or go to mormon.org

And no offense but the story about black people having to turn into white people to go to heaven is just silly. You can't take every weird thing that was ever said by anyone Mormon and declare it doctrine.

AND DOES ANYONE KNOW ABOUT THE MORMONS' RACIST AFTERLIFE PHILOSOPHY? YEARS AGO, TALKING ABOUT THE AFTERLIFE WTH A MORMON CLASSMATE IN COLLEGE, SHE EXPLAINED HOW "BLACKS & OTHER COLOREDS" GOT INTO MORMON HEAVEN. FIRST THEY BECAME MORMONS. THEN, WHEN THEY DIE, THEY ARE USHERED TO THE GATES OF HEAVEN WHERE GOD TURNS THEM INTO WHITE PEOPLE BECAUSE "...BLACKS AREN'T ALLOWED IN MORMON HEAVEN...ONLY WHITES." GOD AS MY WITNESS SHE SAID THIS (THE GOD WORSHIPPED BY DRIVEN AWAY CATHOLICS) & IT ONLY TOOK ABOUT A WEEK TO RECONNECT MY LOWER JAWBONE. I'M KNOW YOU HAVE THE RESEARCH RESOURCES TO CHECK THE VALIDITY OF THIS, I APOLOGIZE IF IT ISN'T TRUE, BUT, I WAS TOLD THIS BY A GREAT WOMAN WHO COULDN'T TELL A JOKE OR A LIE IF HER LIFE DEPENDED ON IT, SO, I BELIEVED HER ABOUT THIS & IT'S BOTHERED ME FOR YEARS...HOPEFULLY,THIS VENUE MAY FINALLY ALLOW ME TO GET THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT IT...

Mormons, like most other conservatives, despise the sacred American values of freedom and equality. They fight tooth and nail against the rights of gays and lesbians. They are not real Americans, and that's that.

Not to mention it took Mormons until 1978 before "God" finally let them know that African Americans were just as human as they were. I guess that means Mormons fit right in with the GOP, sadly.

That said, perhaps Mitt Romney would be good for the space program? He may direct NASA to launch an "Apollo" program to go search for the star "Kolob" so that we can finally talk to God in person (he lives there with his wife, you see).

Tommy H –

Sweeping generalizations!? Of course – with the limited space here. If someone has pull with the Post, I would love to write an op-ed.

Most Mormons are more interested in the revelations to the Prophet Joseph Smith and those to ancient prophets as recorded in the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon than the philosophy of John Rawls. Other than the pro-life issue, I cannot think of a major position of the GOP that is not polar opposite to the teachings of Jesus Christ as found in these sacred scriptures. This is one reason that mainstream Mormon political views are contrary to U.S. Republican values.

On science, in the past decade there has been a spectacular lack of leadership by Republicans on climate change; stem cell research; predatory marketing by Big Tobacco, Big Junk Food, Big Pharma and the 45,000 yearly deaths due directly to a lack of health insurance -- instead of working towards a decent publicly funded one payer system like Canada where not only are per capita costs much lower but health outcomes are far better. The Lord told Joseph Smith to renounce war and proclaim peace. The U.S. invaded Iraq under false pretences. The right to bear arms is one of the most egregious flaws in the U.S. Constitution but it could be fixed if hearts were right. The rate of violence in the U.S. is astronomical compared to many countries.

The GOP used to be a respected entity – supporting balanced budgets, free trade and family values. It appears that the core value of this party has morphed selfish individualism as exemplified by tax breaks for billionaires. Roughly 34 percent of the private wealth in the U.S. is now held by 1 percent of households. Shame.

Jordan, I find your position a disturbing one. Why would evangelical folks want to add a sense of spiritual legitimacy to such a system of religious thought? This is important given the foundational teaching of this group as defined by it's founder Joseph Smith, and subsequent "prophets" and leaders. Believe me when I say that there is much more on the agenda here than just conservative values.

I would suggest that Romney succeeded in Massachusetts because it is a more liberal and tolerant state. Evangelical conservatives are not nearly as accepting. They tend to be more informed about the foundations of Mormon doctrine and practice. I am a stout conservative that would vote for a liberal democrat before I would legitimize Mormonism in America by electing one as a President.

Jordan, I disagree with your take that voters can/should apply a religious test. Article 6 may prohibit legal religious tests but as you are well aware there is no consequence for such actions. The founders offered no enforcement or legal action should one violate the prohibition. They left if up to each of us to honor its intent.

What is the intent? It is to remove religious discrimination from those who seek to serve. So voters may very well be NOT acting "unAmerican" as you stated, but they certainly are acting in a way that dishonors the very words and intent of Article 6 of the Constitution. They may not be acting unAmerican but certainly are acting without honor.

That is how I see it.

I find it AMAZING that any educated person would consider voting for a Mormon. We do not need a leader who practices a cult religion.

No Mormon could ever be elected president. Until one is. This is what they said about Catholics (until Kennedy), African-Americans (until Clinton), and the Irish (until Barry O'Bama).

Dwain:

Mormons have consistently voted for Republican candidates, not for "Mormon" candidates.

If your theory is correct, all Mormons should support Harry Reid, but this is not the case and therefore your theory, is of course, with many of your conclusions about Mormonism, not valid.

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Interesting that the author cited Article VI that, "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

Interesting because Mormons apply just such a test. They almost uniformly support Mormon candidates over non-Mormon candidates. Their history of block voting is one reason that about 80% of Utah's state legislators are Mormon, even though only 58% of the state self identifies as LDS.

I agree there should be no religious test. But that should cut both ways. And repentance should begin with Romney, because Romney says there should be a religious test. That's right -- Romney says that the president needs to be a "person of faith."

http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/02/19/mitt-romney-fights-anti-mormon-bigotry-with-anti-atheist-bigotry.htm

It's hard to feel sorry for someone who says he's a victim of religious discrimination when he's busy practicing religious discrimination himself.

When it comes to religious discrimination in America, Romney is part of the problem, not the solution.

Duwayne Anderson
Author of "Farewell to Eden: Coming to terms with Mormonism and science"

Ken:

You wrote:
"I am thinking for example of the Republican war on science, trying to block health care for the needy, the mania for guns and the priority of perks for the rich rather than the poor. "

These sweeping generalizations of an entire party and segment of society are fallacious.

There is a method of science and the body of science which must be "interpreted" by humans with flaws. No one is arguing about the method of science, but the interpretation of science is always up for debate.

Blocking health care for the "needy" is not a Republican value. Conservative Republicans believe that medicare and medicare should be in place. We've already had a Federal judge rule that Obama's health care plan is unconstitutional. Now what Ken? Perhaps we need people with better ideas than Obama?

Mania for guns? No, but the right to bear arms. The expression of Freedom is a paradoxical thing at times, but it's the best system in an imperfect world.

And about those rich folks. It is not a perk to keep most of your hard-earned money - it is a right.

You've got this backward Ken. John Rawl's theory of justice cannnot be validated in the real world.

Just because we're all born with "unequal" talents does not signify (key word there) that the rest of us "own" each others talents or abilities or the fruits of our own labor.

Like I said Ken, your "sweeping and hasty" generalizations are fallacious.

Only a minority of Mormons are Americans. Romney and Huntsman may be fine fellows, but many of us from other countries are not pleased that they may run for the leadership of the wrong party. The Republican Party's agenda, other than its pro-life stance, is at odds with the teachings of the Savior found in Latter-day Saint scriptures. I am thinking for example of the Republican war on science, trying to block health care for the needy, the mania for guns and the priority of perks for the rich rather than the poor.

LOL1:

So where's the proof that we should fear Romney's interpretation of Mormonism?

Isn't that the issue here?

Romney's passion is turning organizations around and having them thrive. He did that with 100s of companies, the Utah Olympics and the Government of Massachusetts.

Romney’s voting record on Abortion:
• Would welcome overturning Roe v. Wade. (Mar 2007)
• Opposes Roe v Wade, but won’t tamper with abortion laws. (Dec 2006)
• Vetoed emergency contraception for rape victims. (Jul 2005)
• Vetoed stem cell research bill. (May 2005)

Romney on religion:
• Freedom requires religion just as religion requires freedom.
• I believe Jesus is savior of mankind & Son of God.
• Bible is the word of God; I don’t disagree with Bible.
• Every person of any faith has deeply-held values.
• We share a common creed despite differences in theology.
• Will serve no one religion, but will not distance himself.

Newt Gingrinch responded to the Tea Party view of Romneycare:
• Romney is firmly committed to repeal of Obamacare
• It’s not accurate or fair to compare Obamacare and Romneycare
• Romney vetoed many provisions of the Mass bill and Romney was overridden by Democrats
• The original Romney bill was better and practical than what the liberal Democrats did to it
• The Democrats overrode Romney’s original bill on a whole series of items
• The issue is not as clear cut as Tea Partiers think or the liberal media has made the issue out to be

http://www.knrs.com/onair/Rod-Arquette/Newt-Gingrich-Defends-Mitt-Romney-on-Issue-of-Romneycare.html

Here are the facts about Romneycare:
• Mass employers have no mandates, but “requirements”
• Mass program relies on personal responsibility & the market.
• Mass health plan insures all without taxes or socialization.
• Mass reform focuses on individual responsibility (via fines).
• MA state health insurance plan lowered costs initially.
• Mandates on health insurance work in Massachusetts.

Get real LOL1, If we want to know how Romney's Mormonism will play out in his presidency then we check to see how his closely held values have influenced his life.

He's a Great American.

Romney would be the first to clammier if a Muslim ran for president. Religion does matter. JFK argument does not hold, because JFK was not a priest, bishop, or cardinal in the Catholic Church; however the Mormon Church is a lay ministry, and Romney has held positions within the Mormon which are similar to a priest, Bishop and arch Bishop, and has taken oaths in the temple to uphold the LDS church, his forefather took blood oaths to do acts of vengeance against the United States.

More cats out of the bag to come --- a warning to American Voters ---

"I will now say, not only to our delegate to Congress, but to the Elders who leave the body of the Church, that he thought that all the cats and kittens were let out of the bag when brother Pratt went back last fall, and published the Revelation concerning the plurality of wives: it was thought there was no other cat to let out. But allow me to tell you, Elders of Israel, and delegates to Congress, you may expect an eternity of cats that have not yet escaped from the bag".

From Brigham Young Journal of Discourses.
and
http://www.mormonzeitgeist.com/