Do ask, do tell

Despite public and military support for overturning Don't Ask, Don't Tell, the legislation which bans openly gay service members, political, military and religious leaders cite a variety of objections to changing the law.

Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) worries that allowing gays to serve openly would impact troop "morale;" Marine Corp Commandant Gen. James Amos says that a policy change may affect "unit cohesion" and "combat effectiveness." Among the religious leaders opposed to overturning Don't Ask, Don't Tell is Catholic Archbishop for the Military Services Timothy J. Broglio, who fears that chaplains would be forced to compromise their principles in accepting "objectively disordered" homosexuality, adding that he "can never condone -even silently -homosexual behavior."

What beliefs are behind banning gays in the military? What's the role of religion in this debate?

When considering what role religion plays in the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" debate, the first thing to say - and this cannot be said loudly enough - is that there is NO single religious view. Different faith traditions believe different things about human sexuality. And this is true not just about sexuality, but with respect to almost every matter under the sun.

If you doubt this, you should try a straw poll like the one I unintentionally conducted just a week ago. In the midst of a big conversation - ok, well, argument - among my many church-going family members, I brought up the topic of DADT. As I expected, I heard several loudly articulated but different positions: my Methodist mother disagreed with my Baptist second cousin who disagreed with my Lutheran great aunt all of whom disagreed with my once Presbyterian now Buddhist family friend.

What I had not expected, however, was the amazing amount of agreement there was between one group of Jones family discussants - the crew under 35. To a tee, they all offered versions of this response: "I don't get what the big deal is." " Why does this matter? Of course, people in the army should be able to say if their gay" or "Wow, politicians are fighting about this? It's a no brainer. Repeal it."

What does this say about the future of this debate in our country? Well, some might interpret their incredulity as a troubling sign of a generation's disinterest in all things political. This might be partly true, but I think it was more than that. And in my mind, the news is good. These comments suggest that they have grown up in school systems, churches, neighborhoods, and media-cultures where homophobia is not the celebrated norm, and because of this, they have begun to imagine the world differently than their parents, particularly those parents committed to endlessly fighting anti-gay battles. They aren't learning the same rules for playing the homophobia game. Perhaps this means that, when viewed in the long arc of our nation's future, the game is finally up.

I don't mean to imply that this younger generation harbors no latent prejudices or that there is no need to worry about gay-hatred amongst millennials. It clear there is still much work to be done, particularly in religious institutions where change often comes late. But what gave me hope was the unselfconscious nature of their response. In the case of my own family, the next generation of Joneses are certain to argue passionately about politics around the Thanksgiving table in the years ahead, but it's possible that the topic of "don't ask, don't tell" will be relegated to the olden days.

A pipedream? Maybe. But my haphazard poll tells me change is coming. If you want proof for yourself, just ask the young people gathered around your holiday tables and listen to what they tell you.

By Serene Jones | November 18, 2010; 5:19 PM ET Save & Share:
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Posted by: pengyan1988 | November 30, 2010 4:32 AM
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“Don’t Ask; Don’t Tell” raises a more complex legal issue
http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/2010/10/15/dont-ask-dont-tell-a-more-complex-legal-issue/

Posted by: Thinkpoint | November 22, 2010 11:18 AM
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"Religion has NO PLACE in the military... none!"

What an extreme view. Chaplains have their role in the military, but that role does not and should not include proselytizing.

Posted by: Carstonio | November 22, 2010 6:52 AM
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Religion has NO PLACE in the military... none!

Posted by: slowe111

= = = = = = = = =

This is untrue. Men facing death on the battlefield need their gods. This has been true since the dawn of time. Your hatefulness won't change that.

It is clear to me you have never served and therefore have zero clue.

Posted by: ZZim | November 21, 2010 9:36 AM
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I consider the US Military to be one of the most ungodly organizations in the USA.

FANTASATIC, this is how it should be. I think the solution is to rid the military services of ALL chaplins and replace them with professionally trained counselors who are a-religious. Religion has NO PLACE in the military... none!

Posted by: slowe111 | November 21, 2010 8:48 AM
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@Blasmaic - "The right of a person to sleep, bathe, and dress out of view of anyone who could become sexually or romantically attracted to him or her ..."
This is one of the more bizarre reasons that people want to continue DADT. Gay people do not indiscriminately attack Straight people - Gay men and women, if they see someone of their sex sleeping, bathing or dressing, do not tear across the room to jump their bones nor do they one-sidedly become romantically attached to that other person. And those straight soldiers who are deathly afraid that we will look at their "private parts" - sigh ... everybody looks at one another whether at the gym, a locker room or a changing room (and for the guys) at a urinal. Why do you think hotels, restaurants, etc., put mirrors over the urinals? And anyone who says that they have NEVER looked is either a liar or has a psychological problem - really.

Posted by: TrollPatrol | November 21, 2010 3:28 AM
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Listening to the debate at family gatherings might convince you that prayer will return to public school or that abortion will soon be outlawed. Neither is happening anytime soon.

The right of a person to sleep, bathe, and dress out of view of anyone who could become sexually or romantically attracted to him or her isn't subject to a majority vote.

We must maintain DADT or provide private sleeping, bathing, and dressing areas for each individual recruit and soldier.

Some courageous, brave federal judge an decree it. Halliburton can build it. Congress can add it to its deficit.

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Posted by: itkonlyyou382 | November 18, 2010 8:32 PM
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Posted by: itkonlyyou382 | November 18, 2010 8:26 PM
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Posted by: itkonlyyou382 | November 18, 2010 8:23 PM
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Posted by: itkonlyyou382 | November 18, 2010 8:22 PM
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This sounds about right because it was the same when I was growing up, only racism was not the celebrated norm. I'm 42 and grew up in NOVA with a whole bunch of different colored friends and didn't meet a racist until I went to college.

Posted by: duhneese | November 18, 2010 7:19 PM
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Posted by: APaganplace | November 18, 2010 7:13 PM
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"""Christian" Military Chaplains are NOT employees of the denominations which ordained them; they are employees of the US Military. Their churches really have no legal authority over them. ""

Well-pointed out, Joe.

All I can say is that if they were letting queer gals (or any gals) fly the war-birds when *I* was in high school, I could have productively gotten out of some uncomfortable situations, while (Despite Reagan calling the shots, which would admittedly have given anyone pause at the time,) well, I had 20/2 vision, a lot of nervous energy to work off, and let's just say, if anyone's got a Goddess of close air support, that'll be right back home with the European Pagans. :)

Uncle Sam missed out on something before DADT was even a cowardly half-measure in some lobbyist's mind. :)

Posted by: APaganplace | November 18, 2010 7:01 PM
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Speaking here as a US Army and Vietnam Veteran who has been a Believer in Jesus since the age of eight, I consider the US Military to be one of the most ungodly organizations in the USA.

It's sort of like an oxymoron for denominations like the Assemblies of God to even have ordained ministers as Chaplains in the US Military.

"Christian" Military Chaplains are NOT employees of the denominations which ordained them; they are employees of the US Military. Their churches really have no legal authority over them.

Posted by: joe_allen_doty | November 18, 2010 6:31 PM
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