Women Benefit More Than Men from Religious Involvement

Hi! I'm Dr. Phillips! I love your site - it's really good!
http://www.blinklist.com/Buy_Viagra_Online/ > buy viagra online buy viagra online
[url=http://www.blinklist.com/Buy_Viagra_Online/]buy viagra[/url]
Thank you!

Hi! I'm Dr. Phillips! I love your site - it's really good!
http://digg.com/world_news/Buy_Viagra_Online_THE_LOWEST_PRICE_GUARANTEE > buy viagra online buy viagra online
[url=http://digg.com/world_news/Buy_Viagra_Online_THE_LOWEST_PRICE_GUARANTEE] buy viagra online [/url]
Thank you!

Hi! I'm Dr. Phillips! I love your site - it's really good!
http://www.answerbag.com/profile/?id=284536&u=buy-viagra > buy viagra buy viagra
[url=http://www.answerbag.com/profile/?id=284536&u=buy-viagra] buy viagra [/url]
Thank you!

Hi! I'm John Strass and i like your site!
http://www.blinklist.com/cheap_viagra_online_from_ca/ > cheap viagra
Thank you!

The reason ''Religion" doesn't benefit women is because it goes against natural order. In non-Arabic based religions, women are equals if not direct representatives of the goddess.Arabic religions do not work.They are still fighting each other 2000 + years later.Do the math.

Unfortunately, this statement by Rabbi Steinsaltz seems incomplete at best and wrongheaded at worst, though having heard him personally teach and being intimately familiar with his writings I doubt he meant to come off that way (check his books for example). First, you cannot easily lump every religion into a generalization about the treatment of women. Second, even within each religion the various factions and sects have historically not treated women in one monolithic way.

Chassidic Judaism of which Rabbi Steinsaltz is more connected than other persuasions has at its core the belief that each individual plays their own divinely ordained role and each individual can reach G-d with little hindrance if they truly desire. Men and women are not seen as equal in their roles nor is one necessarily better or above the other. Though in fact it is often repeated, albeit glibly at times, that women are on a higher spiritual plane than men, and that in the home the Jewish mother, the Queen, is the paradigm of the home and rules the roost. A division of labor is a better analogy of the situation, but again it is easy to point up the negative: women do the grunt work and men sit around.

Yet the penultimate relationship between a man and woman according to Chabad Chassidic philosophy is one of union and sharing rather than a language of inequality. A husband and a wife are two wholes that make a greater whole so in certain aspects their mission in life may not be complete without the other. Man is not equal to woman, and woman is not equal to man. They are very different. It is in coming together in oneness where they can, when done properly, make a positive difference in the world around them.

The real solution or beginning of an understanding of this issue for many could be found in the mystical writings of Chassidus or various related texts and I recommend searching out the various websites such as inner.org, chabad.org, or aish.com with key words "the feminine divine" or some such trigger, or looking at subsections of these sites dealing with women, marriage and/or family.

Unfortunately, this statement by Rabbi Steinsaltz seems incomplete at best and wrongheaded at worst, though having heard him personally teach and being intimately familiar with his writings I doubt he meant to come off that way (check his books for example). First, you cannot easily lump every religion into a generalization about the treatment of women. Second, even within each religion the various factions and sects have historically not treated women in one monolithic way.

Chassidic Judaism of which Rabbi Steinsaltz is more connected than other persuasions has at its core the belief that each individual plays their own divinely ordained role and each individual can reach G-d with little hinderance if they truly desire. Men and women are not seen as equal in their roles nor is one necessarily better or above the other. Though in fact it is often repeated, albeit glibbly at times, that women are on a higher spiritual plane than men, and that in the home the Jewish mother, the Queen, is the paradigm of the home and rules the roost. A division of labor is a better analogy of the situation, but again it is easy to point up the negative: women do the grunt work and men sit around.

Yet the penultimate relationship between a man and woman according to Chabad Chassidic philoshophy is one of union and sharing rather than a language of inequality. A husband and a wife are two wholes that make a greater whole so in certain aspects their mission in life may not be complete without the other. Man is not equal to woman, and woman is not equal to man. They are very different. It is in coming together in oneness where they can, when done properly, make a positive difference in the world around them.

The real solution or beginning of an understanding of this issue for many could be found in the mystical writings of Chassidus or various related texts and I recommend searching out the various websites such as inner.org, chabad.org, or aish.com with key words "the feminine divine" or some such trigger, or looking at subsections of these sites dealing with women, marriage and/or family.

As several people have noted, faith is a potent anti-depressant.

Therefore, the observation that women are often more involved in religious activities than men should come as no surpise.

For further evidence, see: Secular movements in prosperous, stable nations versus a steep commitment to faith in impoverished places.

Or: the historically high rates of religious observers among African-Americans.

Why is it that male European-Americans don't go to church as often? They're less likely to have been downtrodden recently.

GLO, re: “A christian has to live in the world but isn't of the world. Thas is why cristians don't look to this life for true fulfillment, one will never find it but longs to be in heaven where we all have been called to dwell.”

That’s a nice excuse for certain groups of people treating other groups of people in ways that benefit them. The Christian God approves of slavery – pretty convenient for the people who followed that book who wanted to keep slaves. In the Bible, various authors promote the subjugation of women – that’s just great for the men who compiled the Bible and want domestic and sexual slaves pandering to their every wish around the house. Doesn’t it seem a little too convenient that the people writing/compiling these holy books belong to groups that benefit from these books in this life, while also telling the flock that “this life doesn’t really matter; it’s the next life that counts?”

If you want to devalue your personal life, fine, but don’t devalue others’ lives based on religious beliefs for which there is no good, objective evidence.

Re “But most women (and men for that matter) are attending church to come closer to God not to aspire to some position of power and authority.”

It sure must make it more appealing to go to church, though, if you are treated as superior at church simply because of your gender. I’m sure that’s a message that a lot of people (men or women) could get behind if they were the privileged gender. It sure must be nice if you are a man and your pastor encourages your wife to be submissive and obedient. It just as surely must suck if you are a woman who has been brainwashed since she was a child into believing that she must be subservient to men because that is what a particular deity commands (as helpfully channeled through books written by men).

Re “God doesn't recognize gender or ones position on earth, we are all equal in his eyes.”

Speaking for God, are you? The Christian Bible that I read (over and over, ad nauseum) as a child, certainly contains many passages in which women are treated as second-class citizens. Do you consider the Bible to be the word of God? Here are a few samples for your reading enjoyment:
- “Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the Savior.” (Ephesians 5: 22-23)
- “Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. (Timothy 2:11)
- "And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver... And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels." (Leviticus 27:3-7)
- “Thus says the LORD: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight.” (2 Samuel 12: 11 – wives being used as property to punish a husband’s transgressions).

I’d give more examples, but I feel unclean from poking around in this sewer … I think I need to go take a shower.

More women may have faith in religion because they seek some sense of justice in a world that on the whole has historically denigrated women and children to the status of chattle.

Most men seem unaware of the overwhelming and degrading subjugation of women in this world.

Chances are many men would resist the teachings of religious tenets because to really lead and promote HUMAN rights equally to both genders would mean giving up their obsession with pornography, strip clubs, and skin mags and relinquishing their stranglehold on economic, political, and judicial power.

Women would no longer be considered just disposable objects for the amusement and consumption of the male libido.

I think that the biggest asset to women that religion brings is giving men involvment. letting men think they have a position of power or a responsibility from a higher power seems to keep them around.

WM: A christian has to live in the world but isn't of the world. Thas is why cristians don't look to this life for true fulfillment, one will never find it but longs to be in heaven where we all have been called to dwell.

As far as religion creating second class citizens, that may true in some cases. But most women (and men for that matter) are attending church to come closer to God not to aspire to some position of power and authority. God doesn't recognize gender or ones position on earth, we are all equal in his eyes.

When are we as a society, whether you are Christian, Jew Or Muslum going to stop making the distinction and seperation between men and women. We should not look at whether men or women are more capible of leading on a religious scale but look at what one has to offer to there religious community. whether man or women we need to see all of us as complete equals in every aspect of life, whether that is in the work place on the pulpit or even in the military. to me it is what a person is capible of. it does not matter if they are male or female. and yes women have always been treated as second hand citizens and that is the crime of all mankind. Many people think children are the greatest of G-ds gifts but I think women are the greatest of all G-ds gifts to the world. No I am not gay, just a man that sees women in a different light than most men.

Maybe the reason religion treated women in a subservient roll is because most religion's origins are from a time when brawn was more important than brain. Now that brainpower has eclipsed brawn in our civilizations, women have risen from this subservient roll. I think women may be better world leaders because the brawn baggage that males carry cause aggression in the world.

PAM: In what way do you see the Catholic church changing to give women power at the "highest levels"?

ANN: Example: there are a few women now in positions of reponsibility in the Vatican, that bastion of male privilege since ancient times. Not nearly enough of us and the changes are not fast, of course. But it has started.

Funny, as I see it, religion tends to appeal to the desperate and downtrodden (not exclusively, of course) ... when this life sucks, they can look to the next one.

Some religions tend to create a huge class of the desperate and downtrodden: women (see Sam Harris's most recent post for an interesting perspective on this).

Are the leaders of some religions deliberately or accidentally creating their most devout customers by making them second-class citizens?

" Anonymous:

"...enhanced sensitivity..." is not a purview only of women. I had a father who was 100 times more sensitive than my mother.

Why is it men try to idealize women?

Posted January 18, 2007 9:35 PM "

Why does every warrior-type - football/basketball/military in the field - when on camera automatically say:

"Hi Mom!"

" Bob:

Oy, what nonsense. Clueless this fellow is. Why bother talking to men who think like this?

Posted January 18, 2007 6:32 PM "

My thought - exactly. Thank you.

"...enhanced sensitivity..." is not a purview only of women. I had a father who was 100 times more sensitive than my mother.

Why is it men try to idealize women?

Pam, obviously you don't understand the nature of Christianity. To be a Christian is to be of service to your fellow humans. It is a humble position and not a power and control one.

Thank goodness you are not a Christian!

The rabbi says:

"When it comes to the influence and power of faith, it seems that women, in the end, benefit more from religious involvement than do men."

What planet does this guy come from?

Oy, what nonsense. Clueless this fellow is. Why bother talking to men who think like this?

Rabbi, your question was "Second, have women been served well or poorly by religion?" You did not answer that, instead you provided a non-sequitir of the fact that womena participate in religion.

Just look around the world and you can clearly see the oppression of women in the name of religion. From female circumcision, women not allowed inheritance, women not allowed to minister in their very own religions, no schooling for some, and the list goes on.

Religion has never been kindly toward women.

"I'd be interested to know how women have fared in other religions as educators and as organizers and implementors of charitable works."

Sure, most religions are happy to have women do the donkey labor.

In what way do you see the Catholic church changing to give women power at the "highest levels"?

I agree in large part with Ann O. Both genders can find and have found large swatches of religious texts that speak to a portion of themselves that cannot be fulfilled by anything else. I am not a Christian anymore, but a simple recitation of the 23rd Psalm can still bring me out of a depressive state.

However, when it comes to the involvement and impact of religion on daily life, it should be obvious to all that men are the primary benefactors.

As for the ability of women to feel fulfilled by their religion...well, let's just say it is worth noting that there are plenty of people out there, both male and female, who would gladly trade their freedom of lifestyle out of fear of the unknown.

Thank you, Rabbi, for making the distinction betwee "religion" or "faith" as lived within the privacy of one's own spirita and "religion" or "faith" meaning the external, public part of "religion".

I tend to agree with you that women have derived a great deal of benefit from religion in the first sense. And note that our mental privacy is not ruled by men -- we are free within. No wonder women are so often drawn to it.

But in the public parts of religion -- ritual and the other externals -- women have not been allowed anywhere near full participation. In the Catholic Church women have had a great deal of power in education and in the organization and implementation of charitable works. But not at the highest levels, though that is changing.

I'd be interested to know how women have fared in other religions as educators and as organizers and implementors of charitable works.

Ann O.

To Mark:

Religion is the opium of men. They are intoxicated by power and control, believe me I know. They are obsessed with power, and there lies danger ahead of society...

The real issue is not of religion but of those who run the religions.

It seems many men running the show have a vested interest in domination of women. It's interesting how people can twist words around of any religion to justify any stance.

In the end this question doesn't make sense, as it's not a question of religion. So I think the Rabbi's answer doesn't touch upon the real question. It's a question of cultural and education. yes religion is part of that, but until people truly accept we are all equal, there will not be equality within religion, as all religion reflects the nature of mankind.

Peace and acceptance in your travels
http://www.personaltao.com/

Apologies, meant to type rabbi instead of rabbit, but the fingers got away from me.

The rabbit suggests that if you participate in something it must therefore be beneficial for you.

Nonsense.

If participation equates to benefit, then its almost like he's saying that an abused spouse who still participates in a marriage and doesn't leave must therefore benefit from being abused.

Complete nonsense.

Religion is the opium of women. They are intoxicated by power and control, believe me I know. They are obsessed with power, and there lies danger ahead of society...

The Rabbi concludes "When it comes to the influence and power of faith, it seems that women, in the end, benefit more from religious involvement than do men."

To answer this, I will use Rabbi Stenisaltz' favorite device of noting there are two sides of this coin, since it entirely depends on WHOSE religious involvement one is talking about. When men are the ones who are deeply religiously involved in a fundamentalist sect, they try to control women around them like chattel, and often succeed whatever the women want. This often has a bad outcome. Personally I think it is barbaric.

When women are involved voluntarily, they presumably perceive some reward for their efforts or they wouldn't persist, and it is true, many women are enthusiastic about religion.

Religion empowers the powerless. That insight cuts across many different demographics Rabbi. I agree totally. Thank you. May Light and Truth remain with you and ours always.