Wearing Faith and Works on the Sleeve

Professor, to claim to be a Catholic yet voting for abortion, homosexual marriage, embrionic stem cell research,ect makes one a liar! You know that one is automatically excomunicated when one publically{ or privately} supports or votes for such evil. They simply act as Pontius Pilot did, knowing Jesus to be innocent, yet convicting him to death. Our sin is one of comission and omission when we campaign or vote for them. I wonder if Jesus wore his love for the Father on his sleeve or just kept everthing to himself. I think we all know the answer!

Sorry...anonymous was me...

Norrie, you watch much fox news?
I love how people are so ready to grade another person's connection to their God. So tell me how is your ESP...

We have a person deciding what is religion and what is not...we have a person deciding who is religious or not...and since it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL to have a religious test...does it matter? As president you take an oath to protect the constitution, it matters not what your faith is. And it was wrong to ask the question.

I am just getting really tired of those professing to being Christian and still take such joy at judgeing those they do not know.

Mary,
Wicca is an Anglo Saxon word from 5th century Pagan England. It is pronounced Wi-cha...not WIKKA. It was shortened and became Witch, mostly through laziness and ignorance. While I am at it..in the bible it says suffer a Witch not to live. Well the original word was POISONER not Witch. Good King James was scared of Witches so it put it in his translation...but Witch is not a ancient hebrew word. In the hebrew the word they used was " someone that used herbs to bring people down".That is not a Witch...that is poisoner.

If you draw a circle and place in it the word Religion...draw another circle next to it and mark it Magick...then draw another circle and place it half in religion and half in magick...mark it Wicca. We are a religion, we use magick...but then so do you. Mary, just who are you to judge what is a religion and how any one connects with the divine? You lost your feeling of sacredness for the land...we didn't. So tell me what is your definition of religion?

I will say we are not a direct line from the ancients...your church made sure of that. But our faith is ancient, our practices are ones Your Holy Mother Church did their best to stamp out, as they "borrowed", changed and used. So what do you think your Church is based on? Jewish rites? I don't think so. Name anything and I will give you the DNA.

It seems that we are fair game in this forum. People just think it is ok to lessen our belifs, but dare anyone to say a word about Christians...that is persecution.

Mary, I have a deep and abiding personal connection to my Gods. I pray, I honor them and do my best to live in honor and in harmony. I do not think that you know more then the United States gov. on what is a religion. They have tried to claim we were not...but they couldn't. The IRS, the VA, the Military, the courts, the Legislature...all have acknowledged that we are a religion...we had to prove we were not frivolous..
In any case, we are a religion, we have the rights of all religions. We have ministers, chaplains, we have charities, scout groups for our children, schools, holidays, sacred days, sacred texts...and we are serious about our beliefs.

I would not dare decide what is a viable religion and what is not. If I felt I had that right I am afraid a few religions would be gone...but I do not have that right...

Blessed be...
terra

Thank you Norrie, I'm happy to see that a person of moderation and good sense is on to that game.

I found this question pretty stupid, but as usual A S-A found an interesting angle. After a while we mainstreamers can start feeling like we're not "real" Christians -- Mostly because we're not moved to tears by cheap theatricality and threats of damnation. Thank goodness for the boring old predictable mass.
Mary, I think you are being unfair to Terra in the same way that people are unfair to us when they accuse us of bowing down to idols or the like. Paganism doesn't appeal to me personally but it seems to provide an authentic faith experience to some people. Pagans are not as well-organized as Catholics (who is?) but what they do and believe definitely qualifies as religion. Even if I wasn't impressed by their attitudes, I would have to point out that pagan beliefs are nowhere near as strange as those of the Latter-Day Saints.
As Catholics we sort of make a fetish out of our long unbroken tradition, and I think rightly so. I would also point out that Wiccans have made a sincere effort to link with beliefs and practices that are incredibly ancient in their own right.

Hillary Clinton doesn't wear "her religion" or "her spirituality" on her sleeve because she really doesn't have any of that stuff.

Hillary is all about attaining and keeping power.

She is a religious panderer, not a religious person, who deceitfully implies that she has a spiritual side, in order to attract votes from those who are adherents of conventional religions.

Well, Gaby & Terra, I spent my childhood in the West of Ireland & as a child it seemed that the landscape was somehow sacred, enchanted. But that feeling or intuition--the basis of pagan lore--didn't last, not my own growing up and certainly not a move to the city. Yet the Catholicism remained, always was true, even though as young teen I had to sit through execrable renditions of "Kumbaya" usually sung slightly offkey. Now *that* is having one's faith sorely tested!

Anyway, I'm taking a wee time out from posting so I'll leave you here.

Mary C.

I have to disagree. Wicca is very much a religion and it didn't start in the 1920 as I am sure Terra will tell you!

Actually I believe that any time there is spirituality in a person, you can call that a religion. I can be a religion of one, or a religion of millions.

I dropped the berry in a stream
And caught a little *silver* trout.

(Sorry--the rhythm needs that word silver. Magic, isn't it?)

Terra,

I'm not really sure Wicca *is* a religion, more a combination of Humanism and, say, Gaia. And it's new, really started around 1920 or so.

It appeals to women and any 'ism' that celebrates Celtic lore and Yeats' poetry can't be all bad!

Here's a poem by the master I think you will like:

Song of the Wandering Aengus:

I went out to the hazelwood,
Because a fire was in my head,
And cut and peeled a hazel wand,
And hooked a berry to a thread;
And when white moths were on the wing,
And moth-like stars were flickering out,
I dropped the berry in a stream
And caught a little trout.

When I had laid it on the floor
I went to blow the fire aflame,
But something rustled on the floor,
And some one called me by my name:
It had become a glimmering girl
With apple blossom in her hair
Who called me by my name and ran
And faded through the brightening air.

Though I am old with wandering
Through hollow lands and hilly lands,
I will find out where she has gone,
And kiss her lips and take her hands;
And walk among long dappled grass,
And pluck till time and times are done
The silver apples of the moon,
The golden apples of the sun.

Best wishes,
Mary C.

You are being a tiny bit too hard on the evangelicals, Professor Stevens-Arroyo. And whilst I do not consider myself a Catholic evangelical (although I think we call them charismatic), I do admit to inserting “Holy Mother Church” into my posts every once and a while. I just want to keep current my theory that liberal atheists are only tolerant so long as you give the appearance of disdaining any religious enthusiasm as much as they.

Just saying “Holy Mother Church” infuriates them! I shouldn’t do it, I know, I can’t resist. I flatter myself in thinking that one or two of the oldest and angriest might go all red in the face permanently and not be able to speak for at least an hour or so. (Imagining that makes me happy. Should confess it, maybe?)

Anyway, Holy Mother Church teaches that Catholics should perform good works in order to attain salvation. Oh! we can’t achieve it on our own, but Christ instructed us to do so by word and deed, and so does his body in the world, the Church: our holy church, keeper of our ancient faith.

Anyway, have a good holiday. Incidentally, I am reading Edward Norman’s “Secularisation.” He is Catholic, a “high profile” convert from Anglicanism, writes beautifully, and doesn’t mince his words. It is a small book—a pamphlet really—not available in the US anymore, I’;m afraid. But you would probably like it, if you got your hands on it.

As a non Christian person of faith I feel totally left out of the discussion. Why is it when these questions are asked it assumes that only Christian, Jew or Muslim are religious? In fact as far as population goes they are in the minority of religious people.

There are great differences between Wicca and the Evangelicals... Evangelicals are very much in your face, mainly to get you to go to their church or useing fear to get you to turn to their vision of God. They insist that you have to be saved by Jesus...many of those same people will also be against any tax that goes to education or to fight global warming. So to my way of thinking it is not their religion...its them rather talking their talk then walking and working to help others through deeds. Its so much easier to run your mouth.

Wiccans do not advertise our Gods on billboards, or go knocking on doors to tell you the good Wiccan news...we figure that if you need what we have you will seek it out...just like we did.

We also believe that actions count, talk is cheap. If I help others, it will make this world a better place for all life...it is not to get to any heaven, but to improve and further life.Those who will rail against abortion, yet not want to raise food stamps so that poor people have more then a dollar a meal per person...So how does that help? but is helping your fellow man the reason for your faith? Or is it converting others..is there a point system for getting into heaven?

The bible says to bare witness for your faith...does that mean to shove your gosple down throats, or does that mean to live in accordance with your faith that others might see?

My Gods do not require me to convert, in fact it is a huge no no... we do not think we have The Truth for all people...nor do we want All people to follow our way, it would be wrong for some. It would be like trying to force a square peg into a round hole...it might fit, but not comfortably for the long haul. We do not wear our religion on our sleeves, though more and more we fight for our rights...and for most that is very uncomfortable.

Like the Democratic candidates for president, deeds talk. Feeding the hungry, stopping war, educating the young, making sure all people have healthcare, making sure that there is a world for our children's children....that is real religion...that is careing and connecting with belief and what you stand for, that is doing the heavy lifting...

I watch those TV preachers and their flock on TV...(for a few minutes) and I can tell what they are doing. What those Christians are doing is no more then what a coven of Witches does...they are useing emotion to raise power. The only thing is, they are more scatterd and less efficient. We raise to heal or protect, they love the feeling, are addicted to it. They call it In the Spirit...yes, they are...but their power goes no where, accomplishing nothing.

The Republican party marginalizes people...they talk god all day, they claim who is saint and who is sinner, like they have the hot line to god. They are hypocrites and pander to the lowest denominator. They tell the people what they want to hear, instead of the truth. After all they need the votes. The Terri Shifoe (sp) case, where the repubs wanted to send in the national guard to take the woman out of the hospise. And that woman was blind and knew nothing...her brain was a combo of pea soup and swiss cheese.But they talked god and threw red meat to the Born Agains who want to think they are The Chosen Truth Sayers.

Its all nonsence. I want to be an example to others of how to live, don't just listen to me spout words out of a place of dishonor, but bare witness to honor and love. And that takes more then a mouth, that takes deeds.

terra