Dr. Chopra: Honor thy heritage

mpatlolla claims "that Yoga is intricately linked to Hinduism(Sanatana Dharma)?" and that
"Semitic(Islam and Christian) concept of infinite distance between God and his(Yes His) creation directly contradicts Yoga."

In reality, Yoga is the direct accessing of the chakras and both Islam and Christianity are well aware of the chakras and do not claim "an infinite distance between God and creation". Quite the contrary the main message of the New Testament is that each of capable of knowing God directly and knowing ourselves God. This message is repeated by Jesus and his apostles in virtually every book of the NT. Throughout the Bible and the Quran the chakras are referenced any time the number seven is employed. It would be useful if mpatlolla actually knew about the religions he denigrates and misinterprets.

raja1 said:

"However, that means that Yoga belongs to India as its origins and not exclusively to Hinduism or any one idea of faith. These are ancient wisdom traditions of India as a whole."

Why is so hard for you to acknowledge that Yoga is intricately linked to Hinduism(Sanatana Dharma)? The concept of Jivatma joining tha Paramatma is considered blasphemous till recently. And one would be burnt at the stake for saying so just 2 centuries ago.

Semitic(Islam and Christian) concept of infinite distance between God and his(Yes His) creation directly contradicts Yoga. Yoga mean 'to join', join jivatma with Paramatma.

The link for the article SCIENCE IN ANCIENT INDIA is given below:
http://www.voxindica.blogspot.com/2007/04/science-in-ancient-india.html

It is difficult to understand the problem of "Tired6". What is wrong in being proud of one's ancestry and glory?

Yes the Hindus can claim 'ownership' of a great many discoveries and inventions beginning with the concept of "Shoonya" or its modern equivalent the "zero". They have performed plastic surgery three thousand years ago. SCIENCE IN ANCIENT INDIA mentions quite a few. And these are well documented historical truths.

People sitting in India assume that they have a superior vision and they know how to pigeon hole an Indian living abroad. Now, what is that word? - NRI, which itself seems so passé. (Not sure why they assume that Indians living outside should not care for our heritage). We are ‘residents’ & ‘citizens’ here belonging to a very large community. We live a life which is perfectly in tune with this new young country (America) and we also have a life which respects and learns about our Indian heritage and yes we choose to be ‘custodians’. America is where the action is and nothing has left us behind as the popularity of this discussion here in this forum has shown.

We did not leave anything behind; we brought it with us as have others from different parts of the world. The Indian American children are as much in tune with math, science, spelling bee, geography bee, tennis, football and golf as they are with Hindu classical dances, classical music, yoga, mantras and slokas. (In fact young cousins in India are not learning Indian classical music or dance but Indian American kids here are learning both Indian music or dance along with western musical instrument. That was a surprise!). Just because the Indians in India misunderstand they have started mislabeling. They were even slow patenting. It needed a push and prod from America for the Indian government to digitize traditional knowledge from the ancient Hindu texts, Hindu epics, the Mahabharata and the Bhagvad Gita, and Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. The disconnect is surely at the other end.

The patenting by the Indian Government of Yoga poses, Ayurvedic formulas, BAsmati and Haldi is the right way to go as American entrepreneurs have tried to patent these before and ancient knowledge should be protected by institutions and governments from which they originate rather than by private companies or individuals. However, that means that Yoga belongs to India as its origins and not exclusively to Hinduism or any one idea of faith. These are ancient wisdom traditions of India as a whole.

India Patents Yoga Poses
http://living.oneindia.in/yoga-spirituality/yoga/2009/yoga-poses-theft-patent-western-countries-230209.html

India moves to patent yoga poses in bid to protect traditional knowledge

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/4783753/India-moves-to-patent-yoga-poses-in-bid-to-protect-traditional-knowledge.html

India documents traditional formulations, yoga postures

http://beta.thehindu.com/news/national/article75517.ece

India patents Yoga, Ayurveda
http://www.financialexpress.com/old/latest_full_story.php?content_id=110623&pn=0

To a bigot everyone with a unique view is either a left wing communist or a bleeding heart liberal. When will our American Hindus Fundamentalists grow up to the idea that even religions evolve and change with time just as ideas, nations and people do. Come back and serve your country as good Hindus or please stop trying to be custodians for something that has left you far behind.

You guys claiming dirty hideous Cow and Caste ridden Hindoo roots for the sublime science of Yoga? Are you nuts? Don’t you know that these are natural laws and no one should claim to have discovered them? And that too the polytheistic evil Hindoos?

What next? Newtons’ Law of Gravity? Einstein’s theory of Relativity? Maxwell’s Electromagnetic theory? Robert Fleming should get credit for the bread fungi called penicillium that has existed for millions of years? Are you serious?

I am tired of these whiny Hindoos wanting attribution for yoga. Why should the rules be different for them?

Shukla's column is from the perspective of Hindu American foundation. If Indians who have migrated here are nostalgic that is so with all immigrants in this great melting pot - Irish celebrate St. Patrick's Day, Greeks have their Greek festival, Mexican fiestas, Chinese & Japanese New Year... and so on. We have the freedom here to be obsessed with what we want.
I am not sure what's bugging Raja1. If he doesn't like this column or our obsession, he needn't visit it.

Oh, don't bother about Raja1's quote from some left wing columnist. India is full of such newspapers which do not lose an opportunity to deride India's glorious past. It become a fad in the days of the so called Nehruvian socialism which is long past its 'use by' date. As Indians themselves wised up to the nonsense and can not be bothered about it these closet commies found a new whipping boy, the NRI. And according to these Johnnies if someone is outside the country he should not love his motherland. They don't have any objection to imported American or European customs to be practised in India. We used to hear during the cold war years that Indian commies would rush to have an injection if a comrade in Russia sneezed!

Ancient Indians had an innate belief in the preponderance of mind over matter. The austerities and penance they practised were all part of an eternal quest to achieve the objective of conquering the mind. By conquering the mind which according to modern science resides in the 'higher centres' of the brain, the ancient rishis were able conquer the body. They were able to endure extreme privations including heat and cold, pain and hunger.

We once scoffed at the ‘tapas’ which was their means of achieving lofty spiritual attainments. Isn’t it ironical that we are re-importing the essence of it repackaged as ‘yoga’, as a means to still the mind agitated by the rigours of modern life?

Choa Kok Sui’s ‘Pranic Healing and Arhatic Yoga’ is once such system for healing the mind and body using "life-energy". In the system, the healer is trained to mentally pass energy of various colours - the colours depending on the site of ailment – to heal! The system works on the spiritual attainments of the healer – the greater the attainment, the greater the healing power. Mysterious as it may seem, it has been known to work in many chronic ailments not amenable to modern science.

Denying credit where it is due but utilizing the knowledge is as Dr Shukla commented nothing short of plagiarism. And that is what Deepak Chopra is guilty of!

Here's a wonderful analysis of why Indians living abroad are obsessed with all things Indian and Hinduism. This was in today's Mint, one of India's leading financial papers http://bit.ly/cNqwQc

As always Mr. Deepak Chopra did not even understand nor follow the discussion and provided an absurd & irrational rejoinder. (Just as D. Chopra appeared in CNN after the Mumbai attack of 2008 and provided a totally unrelated cause and effect analysis on why the Mumbai attack occurred and why the poor defenseless commuters in a Mumbai train station were killed by the mercenaries from Pakistan. Mercifully, the CNN host cut him off). In a similar fashion he has jumped into this discussion and questioned others motives. It is about the origin, inception, source, provenance and not who can and should not use it. When a Muslim, Jew, Christian or Buddhist claims their history everyone sits and applauds. In the same token when a Hindu takes pride in something that is part of their ancestry everyone pounces and attacks him (including Chopra who has seen monetary benefits & fame out of using everything Hinduism has to offer).

HI Futuralogic,

Sorry, I don't see my question answered there. I am not asking this lightly - I am a Hindu and I have been initiated to yoga (not only Asanas) and I practice it every minute of my life.

Can you summaries the answer here, please?

Viswa

VISWASHARMA,

Your questions are already answered here:
http://hinduwisdom.info/Yoga_and_Hindu_Philosophy.htm

As I follow the Yoga discussion by two experts and I am perplexed, to say the least. I feel this is about Yoga Origin and who invented it and who has right over it. I might be all wrong and you might discussing some thing else.

As far as any one knows- 'YOGA' the word or its practice and knwoledge orignated with the Indian seers.

But, many relgions may have adopted yoga or came to know of its theory independantly. In the latter case, it is termed differently - Like namaz and Sadhya are derivatives of the same priciple or the rosary or japa or the practice of slience (mauna) or fasting and many other aspects.

On this Yoga discussion, I have some simple questions, that either or both of the panelist can answer.

The yoga books that I read (like the Shatchakra Nirupana) says that our bodies have chakras (wheels) that contain petals with Sanskrit alphabets on them.
Does a Christian or a Muslim or Native American or an atheist or a gay person or any other human being not possess these chakras? or do they have different alphabets or no alphabets on them?

If every one has it, what is wrong with every one claiming yoga as their own ? How does knowledge of these chakras precede or follow any religion or no religion? Did it not come with the body? Are we to listen to people who claim no chakras are in a human body, because it ahs not been scientifically proven?

If we answer these and or other claims of Nadi etc of yoga, and demonstrate they exist, we would be doing yoga and humanity a great service. I believe we can show some of these, with empirical proof. Can the great panelist discuss these topics?
viswa.sharma@gmail.com

There is a lot of misconception about Hinduism today. That is because of people like Deepak Chopra who uses the "religion" for their economic benefit taking and making up things to fit their needs. One of the biggest issues is that there is such a mix up between religion and tradition. The name given to this "religion" by GOD is Satya Sanatana Dharma, or true way of life. When the Persians discovered India they could not pronounce Satya Sanatana Dharma, so the called it Hinduism because of the village's location. This is not about who can or cannot practice the teachings of Hinduism, it is about stripping a "religion" to make money. Hinduism does not force nor deny anyone to pratice or not to practice. Yoga is very much apart of Satya Sanatana Dharma and therefore very much rooted in Hinduism. Just because some people could not prononce three words and changed it to what they could say easily does not change the teachings, knowledge of Satya Sanatana Dharma.

Raj Choudhury,

How can you comment without reading what you are commenting upon. You stated the same thing as Dr. Shukla, except he sounds like an intelligent, thoughtful person. You sound like someone who prejudges and presumes and then makes a fool of himself. Think before you speak. Or listen respectfully.

This is what Dr. Shukla and Raj Choudhury wrote:

DR. SHUKLA:
"All of this is not to contend, of course, that yoga is only for Hindus. Yoga is Hinduism's gift to humanity to follow, practice and experience. No one can ever be asked to leave their own religion or reject their own theologies or to convert to a pluralistic tradition such as Hinduism. Yoga asks only that one follow the path of yoga for it will necessarily lead one to become a better Hindu, Christian, Jew or Muslim. Yoga, like its Hindu origins, does not offer ways to believe in God; it offer ways to know God."

RAJ CHOUDRY:
"Therefore, everyone, not just self-declared Hindus, have the right to pursue Yoga and seek union by themselves, no matter what faith they belong to."

If you have something to say, go ahead. If you have nothing to say as above, say nothing.

@ Raja Choudhury

"Therefore, everyone, not just self-declared Hindus, have the right to pursue Yoga and seek union by themselves, no matter what faith they belong to"

Who said NO to that. In fact you repeated what Aseem said. This just shows that you did not care to read about Aseem's excellent essay.

@ Raja Choudary

You are the one lost slicing and dicing Sanatana Dharma so that it fits your agenda. Read and educate yourself before trying to obfuscate facts.

http://hinduwisdom.info/Yoga_and_Hindu_Philosophy.htm

Enlightened?

what is frustrating is to see the likes of raja choudhury and jyestha hold forth and pontificate without bothering to read or understand what dr. shukla has written. glossing over dr. shukla's arguments they have sought to clamber on to a platform of platitudes, just like the person they are defending -- the snarky, pretentious, i know it all, mr. chopra...

My Dear Aseem,

You are truly lost in your idea of what Hinduism really means and who Yoga belongs to. The word Hindoo was first put into popular use by Raja Rammohan Roy, The Brahmo Samaj and the British who were looking to organize Indians into categories that they could better manage. In his efforts to make Indian religions palatable to the British Christians Ram Mohan Roy referred to the religion of the land as Hindoo referring to the persian term for all people that lived West of the Indus. India has 6 major schools of philosophy but hundreds of sects and divisions within them. The only term that may define the Indian faith can be perhaps Dharma or Sanatan Dharma. The fact is that Yoga, though probably practiced in pre-Indus Valley times was formally a by-product of the Sankhya philosophy developed by sages like Kapila and later Patanjali in the Southern Nepal, Northern Bihar areas. Later it was developed by many groups across India and became a term to define the use of techniques to still the mind and find union with the inner Atman and then eventually with Brahman. Over the past 2000 years we have seen schools all over India for Hatha, Nada, Kundalini, Kriya, Shabd, Tantric and many more Yogas. In India Yoga was embraced by all religions including Buddhists (Buddha was a Yogi), Sufis, Sikhs and all sects that followed one of the major Indian philosophical traditions like Bhakti, Tantra and more.

To be a Yogi is to seek union with the source of all that pervades the universe. And that source, according to Yoga, lies within each of us. Therefore, everyone, not just self-declared Hindus, have the right to pursue Yoga and seek union by themselves, no matter what faith they belong to.

Good luck with your Quixotic battles, my lost NRI friend seeking comfort in some lost idea of Indian Hindu greatness. Our greatness comes from our pluralism and our tolerant self image

Raja Choudhury.

Deepak Chopra needs to say it like it is - Hinduism is a pluralistic tradition, where spirituality realms supreme. Hinduism's universality does not make Hinduism a non-entity. The contributions of Hinduism are not disowned by its universality. And to be clear to all, Hinduism's contributions such as yoga, ayurveda, & meditation can be used & followed by anyone, regardless of their religious or spiritual affiliation.

Well done, Dr. Shukla,

Selfish, small-minded men like Chopra need to be called out.
Chopra's inaccurate and malicious lies are worse because they are unnecessary and unfair.

Hinduism does not ask for conversion, but Hindus today must demand a halt to the attempts to demean this unique, beautiful, & tolerant religion. This has been going on for too long by Christians & Muslims with a destructive agenda.

But Chopra is pathetic. Hopefully, as Hinduism is freed from disinformation, weak men like Chopra can feel better about themselves.

JYESHTA,

How ignorant can you be?

Yoga is an integral part of the Hindu religion. There is a saying: “There is no Yoga without Hinduism and no Hinduism without Yoga." The country of origin of Yoga is undoubtedly India, where for many hundreds of years it has been a part of man's activities directed towards higher spiritual achievements. The Yoga Philosophy is peculiar to the Hindus, and no trace of it is found in any other nation, ancient or modern. It was the fruit of the highest intellectual and spiritual development. The history of Yoga is long and ancient. The earliest Vedic texts, the Brahmanas, bear witness to the existence of ascetic practices (tapas) and the vedic Samhitas contain some references, to ascetics, namely the Munis or Kesins and the Vratyas.

"Living souls are prisoners
of the joys and woes of existence
to liberate them from nature's magic
the knowledge of the brahman is necessary.
It is hard to acquire, this knowledge,
but it is the only boat,
to carry one over the river of Samsara
A thousand are the paths that lead there,
Yet it is one, in truth,
knowledge, the supreme refuge!

- Yoga Upanishad

"This they consider Yoga: the steady holding of the senses." - Katha-Upanishad

"Yoga is said to be the oneness of breath, mind, and senses, and the abandonment of all states of existence." - Maitrî-Upanishad

"Yoga is known as the disconnection (viyoga) of the connection (samyoga) with suffering." - The Bhagavad Gita

"Yoga is ecstasy (samâdhi)." - Yoga-Bhâshya

"Yoga is said to be control." - Brahmânda-Purâna

"Yoga is the control of the whirls of the mind." - Yoga Sutra

http://hinduwisdom.info/Yoga_and_Hindu_Philosophy.htm

Aseem,
Sorry you don't feel that your brand of Hinduism isn't getting the credit it deserves, but it's stupid to blame Deepak Chopra or Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. They at least are honest enough to attribute the knowledge to the Vedas and the rishi's experiences of pure consciousness. That is the real source of Hinduism and Sanatana Dharma. And as you should know, there are Hindu philosophies like Sankhya and Nyaya, and even parts of Vedanta and Yoga that do not require or use the concept of a personal God. Not exactly the vision of Hinduism you are championing huh?
The world is not going to adopt Hindu rites of Shiva and Krishna just because mantra meditation, yoga asanas and Ayurveda have been found to be helpful. Buddhism took all those practices and started an entirely different religion. If Hindus like yourself are looking for respect and validation from others for your tradition, then you obviously don't even understand the first thing about your tradition. Knowledge must come from within.
So read a little history and get over your silly delusions of self-importance. At this point in history, Hinduism is a diluted and limited expression of Sanatana Dharma. Better to stand up for and embody the truth itself, rather than defend the catch-all term Hinduism with all its messy human contradictions and problems.

It was disappointing to read Deepak Chopra's rejoinder to Aseem Shukla's article "The theft of Yoga". Disappointing because as such a successful student, purveyor and beneficiary of Hindu traditions/philosophy he fails repeatedly to honor (by clearly naming and acknowledging Hinduism) the tradition that has given him so much. While not quite biting the hand that feeds him, he certainly neglects the time-honored Hindu tradition of appreciation for one's teachers/gurus. His gurus are all those rishis/sages (and yes, these rishis would commonly be referred to today as "Hindu") who have given the world the knowledge that he draws upon. Such ingratitude and omission is not what one would have expected of a Deepak Chopra. Would he shy away from referring to the wisdom from the Bible, Torah and Koran as Christian, Jewish and Islamic respectively. No, he would probably pander to those very audiences by emphasizing those origins (and to also demonstrate his authentic goodwill toward all faiths). Then why this treatment for Hinduism. Do other authors who draw upon and distill universal truths from their own religions - Dale Carnegie and Norman Vincent Peale come to mind - not attribute unequivocally their inspiration to a specific religion. I don't believe that the Christian inspiration behind the long time bestsellers "How to win friends..." or "the power of positive thinking" has ever diminished the readership for these books among non-christians. Is Deepak Chopra like many other Hindus not willing to confront the painful and often unacknowledged reality that sometimes being a "Hindu" is the reason for rejection and prejudice. What is most disappointing is that Deepak Chopra of all the people out there is well placed to dispel some of those prejudices. Instead he chooses to deny Hinduism too.

its been a long time coming...this guy is such a slippery character...basically a salesman-type.

Deepak Chopra and others in the west have given the impression that Vedanta is a mystic path which is independent of religion. Yoga is the word used to describe this "trans-religious" spiritual path to God. And this yoga could be adopted by anyone regardless of former or current religious involvement. Yoga is an integral part of our ancient religious tradition, its origin is in Sage Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. It is not now, nor was it ever, separate from the religious tradition that gave birth to it. Yoga is an advanced part of the Hindu religion, a religion which sees realization of the Vedantic truths as the goal of man. The idea of a spiritual path separate from religion comes very close to an ideal that many were, and still are today, seeking. So, it would seem that the less important areas of difference could be overlooked and the commonly accepted truths proclaimed in unison. Yoga and Vedanta are said to be the answer, the meeting ground. Under this misguided philosophy, Chopra has run a sucessful buisness over the years.
A spiritual path separate from religion neither fulfills the ideal of religious unity, nor is it really a spiritual path. It remains only a philosophy, a mental concept.

Amen, or rather, Aum Thurgood! Well said.

Yes Yoga is part of Hinduism or Sanatan Dharama.

it is reported that chopra is the author of 56 books. i believe, if someone comes up with an algorithm to scan the books, we will find that 90 percent of what he said in his first book is repeated in the following 55. he is a master at selling his wares, and most probably has copyrighted the way he sneezes and passes gas.... alas, he neither has the sagacity nor the grace to acknowledge what he has borrowed and from whom.

We have come a long way from the abhorrent TIME (Apr.15.2001) cover story on Yoga that did not contain the word Hindu, leave alone a single, even one, reference to Yoga's Hindu roots. It took exactly 8 years and 5 months for the Newsweek cover story "We Are All Hindus Now." While Deepak Chopra seems beyond reasoning, many others, some of whom ask angrily if Hindus are claiming a patent, or others who fear a loss of their own traditions should take note how very different the Hindu idea of change is. Those eight years from TIME to Newsweek saw no extraordinary efforts on the part of Hindus (apart from the good work done by a few Hindu organizations working with pennies, literally) no knocking on doors on Saturdays, no young men in ties on bicycles. There was of course plenty of invective Hindus had to deal with, from the California text book debate (where Deepak was not even on the sidelines) and vilification of American Hindus in the Indian media and by a few humanities professors here and there. Deepak Chopra is another sort one has to deal with, along with "yoga studio" poseurs who seek patents on poses. Who said life is dull?

Finally, someone calling out Deepak Chopra for what he is...an absolute phony! Well said, Aseem.