Imam's silence allows malice to fester

BTW, it's hysterical to hear Muslims (especially Pakistani's) talk about Caste in Hinduism, when they are the most Castist people on the planet and unlike India don't even has an affirmative action system to help poor ethnicities. The Islamists created the concept of Skin Color based caste in the Indian subcontinent. The TAP elite (Turk-Arab-Persian) were the ruling caste and thought of themselves as superior to "subcontinentals" including South Asian Muslims. Mixed ones like Ashraf's are still considered "superior" to local Muslims. In Pakistan they call it Qom and unlike India, a few upper caste Muslim elasticities dominate the military and politics.

Many Muslims have called me a kafir (infidel) and that I am going to hell if I don't believe in Allah. Many Christian extremists have called me a heathen and that I am going to Hell if I don't believe in Jesus.
Therefore, it's interesting to me to see both these groups having a screaming match about the mosque.
I have never heard a Muslim accept Hinduism as a valid religion that has a right to exist so I am not sure why I should support them here.

Perhaps, Farnaz, you can not hear the outrage. Perhaps it is because people, Hindus and otherwise, are not wasting their time in outrage but actually doing something about it.

I suspect, that there is no evidence that will convince you that Hindus (about 30% of whom fall into the Dalit group as you define it) are trying to fix the problems of social injustice.

But then, your passion may still make you a part of the solution, unless you end up being just another western colonialist going to fix Hindus as the islamists and christians did.

hariaum

Farnaz, what have you done about the millions of palestinian being raped, starved, and killed by the Israelis?

You do realize that most Hindus are poor. Most Hindus struggle against poverty every day and yet are Hindus. With 300 million Dalit Hindus, and 1000 million Hindus total, and probably another 400 million Hindus who are likely among the poor. You are saying that 70% of Hindus are being oppressed by what the other 30% - 300 million Hindus are blood thristy child sacrificing idiots?

Have you ever wondered what the basal rate of oppression is? What is the basal rate of infantacide? Does that include abortion (or is that only the rich person's right to infantacide)?

It seems you feel you are educated in this. Can you give me stastics with appropriate comparison groups? Or is it that you don't really have statistics, just anecdotes that support your prejudices - likely acquired from christian groups?

Of course no amount of Hindu attempts to correct the injustices of history will matter to you. Just as no amount of Israeli attempts to correct the injustices of history matter to hamas. You want to believe that Hinduism (in large part defined by Dalit's who are Hindu) is the problem. Your desire is your prejudice.

You think Clear thinking is rambling, I don't. Your nazi scout drum beat is simple, but not rational. Clear thinking's approach is logical, perhaps not simple - kind of like life.

hariaum

Watchmaker -

Unfortunately no one told the raging purveyors of hatred here in the U.S. that we are not at war with Islam.

This is exactly the type of bullying masquerading as discourse which should not be tolerated by decent people. Over and over we hear "If you don't repeat exactly what I want you to say then you are one with 'the enemy"."
This is the kind of heavy-handed bully-boy tactic, which is on the level of an elementary school playground, that lead to the nearly deadly throat-slashing attack on a NYC cabbie just because he is Muslim. An attack by an avowed Christian who made no secret of his hatred of all Muslims.
No, I am not "ready to say" whatever you tell me to say. Are you "ready to say" exactly what I want you to say?"

yes, whenever a Hindu says anything it is hatred. When the Koran says god hates, that is not hatred. When people send bombs to doctors and nurses, that is not hatred. When jew throw stones at a mosque that is hatred. When hamas launches rockets at Israelis citizens, that is not hatred.

Rubbish two faced ideology of Watchmaker and Yasser.

Anyperson who has an opinion, even the opinion that islamists are like infidels and the hated of god, has a right to their opinion. Any person who want to air their opinion, even if it is wrong, has the right to declare their opinion. It is not bullying to state one's belief.

It is bullying when killers kill you because they don't agree with your view of religion. See opinion v killing - difference. As it happens, islamists and christian have been killing people for this reason every century since they came into existence. The bullying is an islamic-christian history - my opinion - not bullying.

When bin laden says he is attacking us in the name of islam, why should I not believe him? Why should I believe your "moderate" perspective is the true islam? Are you an authoritative voice of islam? If my opinion seems to you to be bullying, then really, you have thin skin while you expect me to sit back and watch your nonmuslim islamists attack us.

nonsense, get over yourself.

hariaum

Farnaz,

I was in a flood affected area during last week. I can tell you where I was, there was no aid foreign or otherwise to be seen. But they are saying something to the tune 40 million have been affected by this flood so its impossible for all of them to get help. There have been plenty of pledges for donations. That's all I know. Not much has materialized and we know from the Earthquake experience that only half of these pledges actually materialize.

The sense I got talking to the few affected people was that their biggest concern was neither getting shelter nor getting 3 meals a day. There was a sense of hopelessness regarding how would they re-build their lives. It wasn't easy for them even before the floods but now with their arable land inundated and their animals gone their miseries will continue for a while. May God help us~!

Yasser,

Thanks for your post. Yes, the Pakistanis I know and am in touch with agree with you on all points. My former students, now in Pakistan, are concerned about basic commodities, and think they should be dropped at designated relief sites in Pakistan--i.e., send material goods, not money, and put known people, ideally, relief workers in charge.

Shelter is also a huge problem from what I understand. What kind of help is Pakistan getting from neighboring nations?

Afraid4USA,

The ADL, Bishop Timothy Dolan, and several others expressed concern for the families of the victims--at least, that is what I understood, and the ADL has back down. I would like a link if you have it to Pataki's remarks.

Meanwhile, I did post this on Valerie Dixon's thread, and would be interested in knowing your thoughts.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/valerie_elverton_dixon/2010/08/faith_is_the_balm_in_gilead.html

Farnaz,

Thank you for your kind words. We do need a lot of moral support from the rest of the world. Pakistan has seen many calamities in the past decade terrorism, earthquakes, financial crunch and a corrupt democratic setup but this super flood trumps it all. I believe the worst hasn't even started yet. All the crops just ready to be harvested, all those animals that got washed away. The prices of basic commodities is gonna shoot up pretty soon. The picture is not good.

This man has never denounced Hamas, one reason why the ADL is against the mosque. The fact that our state dept is sending this dude around the world on a free trip to raise more money for his mosque is outrageous. I know he plays the anomalous and hard to find "moderate" muslim. I have never heard him actually stand up and denounce Sharia or a strict separation of mosque and state (something inconceivable in Islam).
Also, there's the money angle. Who's sponsoring this thing? Gov. Pataki claimed on TV that the mosque site was purchased by a man who a month earlier was a waiter in a restaurant. Hello?????

Yasser,

Thanks for your reply. I heard back from both my students that contra the BBC reports, there have been no attacks on ministries in Islamabad.

God help you all, Yasser.

Farnaz

ClearThinking,

Your defense of India speaks to strong feelings, and, although I could challenge you on several points, I will not. The simple fact is that the plight of three hundred million Dalit is unacceptable. No, it will not end in fifty years, but within that time, significant progress can be made.

You rush around from pillar to post, American janitors to post-colonialism. I'm not attacking India. You miss the points. All of them. Aseem can speak. Let him.

Farnaz,

The Talibans that operate in Pakistan are just a bunch of thugs. They have no cause and are hated by all of Pakistan. They've been dieing in droves at the hands of Pakistan Army and US drones and no one sheds a tear for them bar some radical parties like Jamat-e-Islami.

I wont be surprised if they attack the aid workers (for ransom or otherwise)coming to help Pakistanis in this moment of distress. But they don't have the means to attack these aid workers outside one province which is their strong hold and even there they only operate in the Pashtun dominated areas.

Farnaz,

You are all over the place with your confusion about complex issues involving poverty, exploitation, class, caste, religion, and lack of opportunity that exist in poverty stricken nations.

Your concern for the downtrodden is admirable, but George Bush-like simplistic analysis is counterproductive.

Do you really think that there is silence and lack of concern, and that you care more than the people who live in those countries? Or is it that when there is profound poverty, the options available to lift people out of wretched conditions is limited?

Do you think a Dalit became the current Chief Justice of the Supreme court of India or became the President of India without having any opportunities for education and advancement during the last many decades? The opportunities and resources for most are still inadequate and extremely limited in these countries relative to the population. I'm sure you know about the substantial quota system in India in education, for example.

If you have solutions to offer, please do so. Shouting accusations about the lack of compassion in other peoples while they are working hard to lift hundreds of millions out of poverty is unfair and unnecessary.

It has not been easy for nations like India, Pakistan, & Bangladesh to start from scratch after the end of British colonial rule. Just 60 years ago, there were not enough schools, universities, industrial and manufacturing capabilities, or infrastructure for basics such as food, electricity, and water when the British left. Famines happened when the British were in charge of governance because infrastructure was so poor. There have been no famines since because the vast majority of people do care about their fellow man.

You can still see the poor infrastructure in these nations, especially at times of crisis like the current floods. Unfortunately, the Pakistani leaders never got rid of their reliance on their colonial masters, and you can see the instability persisting in their political, economic, and social institutions. Parts of India have made significant economic progress during the last 20 years of steady economic growth.

Farnaz, their are no shortcuts or easy answers. The leaders of these nations are well aware of the heavy lifting that needs to be done with economic growth and improved opportunities for all their citizens. This will take decades more for India (at 8 - 10% growth), and perhaps much longer for Pakistan.

After these nations become more wealthy and more capable of providing opportunities for all their citizens, feel free to shout epithets if you still see injustice and discrimination. In the meantime, don't harangue them in the midst of their labors, unless you have something to contribute.

Yasser,

Have been receiving photos from former students of mine in Pakistan. I cannot even take in the devastation.

BBC has been broadcasting "rumors" of Taliban activity directed against relief workers and the ministries in Islamabad struggling with relief efforts.

Is any of this true? Am waiting to hear back from my students.

Hello, ClearThinking:

I'm afraid your posting amounts to little more than a muddled, defense.

Not only is Pakistan's Constitution a remarkable document that, if followed, would make that nation a "shining star" in Asia, but its majority faith condemns caste. Be that as it may, it exists. There is Muslim outrage, but, not enough.

This is also the case in India; there is outrage, but not enough. There is never enough. If there were, three hundred million would not be confined to the wretched conditions in which they live. One also reads defenses by upper "caste" folks who do, as Navin1 points out, condemn whatever tiny efforts are made for these people who clean sewers with their hands.

Janitors in the US, maintenance personnel, are often unionized, have health benefits, pensions, etc. They own their own homes, send their children to college. The comparison to India's Dalit is absurd.

What I cannot understand is why people like you are not demanding that this horror be investigated.

It would be best for you to begin this now. The third international conference on Untouchability will be held next year.

You have nothing to gain through the sufferings of these peoples. What will continue to happen is that Christian and Catholic missionaries will come into India to convert them, complicating matters that do not need further complications.

Wow Farnaz, you just hit a nerve with this Indian guy~! He's really mad at you!

Farnaz_Mansouri,

Your obsession with the Dalit issue is beginning to reveal your lack of understanding of the issue. Perhaps your Dalit friend at UT is presenting an incomplete picture to you. He probably has his own agenda with you.

You wrote:
"This will end, Navin1, in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, etc ... Where is the Hindu outrage? That is what I cannot understand. Why are they silent? Why are the "upper classes" in Pakistan silent? ...I do not understand."

Here are a few points to help you understand.
1. Injustice and oppression of the bottom of society exists everywhere. This is true in Rio, Mexico City, Karachi, Mumbai, and anywhere there is poverty and the opportunity for exploitation.
2. This issue today has more to do with economics and lack of opportunity and hope. But your Dalit friend seems to have confused you with only talk of religion.
3. In India, a secular country which is led by a Sikh Prime Minister, an Italian Catholic politician (Sonia Gandhi), and a Christian Defense Minister, you ask where is the "Hindu outrage". After Independence, the Hindu leaders have been "outraged", and the Constitution (which was partly written by Ambedkar (a Dalit) immediately banned discrimination. As you know, a recent President of India and the current Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India are Dalits.
4. Confusingly, from Pakistan, an officially and constitutionally Islamic country, you ask where is the outrage from the "upper classes". Why didn't you ask about "Islamic outrage"? Think about this carefully. I think this shows that you have not sat down and thought through your understanding and analysis of this issue carefully and clearly. You have a knee-jerk response to helping the downtrodden, but it is important to understand the problem and the possible solutions. Otherwise, you are just offending people, not helping provide solutions.
5. The extent of poverty is horrible. But what exactly what you do to lift up these people? What should a janitor cleaning toilets at night in the University of Texas do? What should you do to help this janitor?
6. Do you really think that leaders in India, whether Sikh, Christian, Muslim, or Hindu are unaware of the problems of economic and social injustice? On what do you base your charge that people are "silent" about this issue? Especially Dr. Shukla who has worked specifically on the issue of caste-based discrimination.
7. Do you really think you have a better grasp of this issue than, say, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh? Would you like to give him some advice? Do you have a solution or something to offer?

I am sure everyone reading your posts is impressed by your concern for the "sweepers" in Pakistan, etc...
But are you really sure that your understanding and analysis of this issue is clear and accurate?

Your posts with wild accusations with inaccurate numbers are not only irrelevant but distract people from discussing important issues.

5. The extent of poverty is horrible. But what exactly what you do to lift up these people? What should a janitor cleaning toilets at night in the University of Texas do? What should you do to help this janitor?
6. Do you really think that leaders in India, whether Sikh, Christian, Muslim, or Hindu are unaware of the problems of economic and social injustice? On what do you base your charge that people are "silent" about this issue? Especially Dr. Shukla who has worked specifically on the issue of caste-based discrimination.
7. Do you really think you have a better grasp of this issue than, say, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh? Would you like to give him some advice? Do you have a solution or something to offer?

I am sure everyone reading your posts is impressed by your concern for the "sweepers" in Pakistan, etc...
But are you really sure that your understanding and analysis of this issue is clear and accurate?

Your posts with wild accusations with inaccurate numbers are not only irrelevant but distract people from discussing important issues.

Farnaz_Mansouri,

Your obsession with the Dalit issue is beginning to reveal your lack of understanding of the issue. Perhaps your Dalit friend at UT is presenting an incomplete picture to you. He probably has his own agenda with you.

You wrote:
"This will end, Navin1, in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, etc ... Where is the Hindu outrage? That is what I cannot understand. Why are they silent? Why are the "upper classes" in Pakistan silent? ...I do not understand."

Here are a few points to help you understand.
1. Injustice and oppression of the bottom of society exists everywhere. This is true in Rio, Mexico City, Karachi, Mumbai, and anywhere there is poverty and the opportunity for exploitation.
2. This issue today has more to do with economics and lack of opportunity and hope. But your Dalit friend seems to have confused you with only talk of religion.
3. In India, a secular country which is led by a Sikh Prime Minister, an Italian Catholic politician (Sonia Gandhi), and a Christian Defense Minister, you ask where is the "Hindu outrage". After Independence, the Hindu leaders have been "outraged", and the Constitution (which was partly written by Ambedkar (a Dalit) immediately banned discrimination. As you know, a recent President of India and the current Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India are Dalits.
4. Confusingly, from Pakistan, an officially and constitutionally Islamic country, you ask where is the outrage from the "upper classes". Why didn't you ask about "Islamic outrage"? Think about this carefully. I think this shows that you have not sat down and thought through your understanding and analysis of this issue carefully and clearly. You have a knee-jerk response to helping the downtrodden, but it is important to understand the problem and the possible solutions. Otherwise, you are just offending people, not helping provide solutions.
5. The extent of poverty is horrible. But what exactly what you do to lift up these people? What should a janitor cleaning toilets at night in the University of Texas do? What should you do to help this janitor?
6. Do you really think that leaders in India, whether Sikh, Christian, Muslim, or Hindu are unaware of the problems of economic and social injustice? On what do you base your charge that people are "silent" about this issue? Especially Dr. Shukla who has worked specifically on the issue of caste-based discrimination.
7. Do you really think you have a better grasp of this issue than, say, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh? Would you like to give him some advice? Do you have a solution or something to offer?

I am sure everyone reading your posts is impressed by your concern for the "sweepers" in Pakistan, etc...
But are you really sure that your understanding and analysis of this issue is clear and accurate?

Your posts with wild accusations with inaccurate numbers are not only irrelevant but distract people from discussing important issues.

Farnaz_Mansouri,

Your obsession with the Dalit issue is beginning to reveal your lack of understanding of the issue. Perhaps your Dalit friend at UT is presenting an incomplete picture to you. He probably has his own agenda with you.

You wrote:
"This will end, Navin1, in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, etc ... Where is the Hindu outrage? That is what I cannot understand. Why are they silent? Why are the "upper classes" in Pakistan silent? ...I do not understand."

Here are a few points to help you understand.
1. Injustice and oppression of the bottom of society exists everywhere. This is true in Rio, Mexico City, Karachi, Mumbai, and anywhere there is poverty and the opportunity for exploitation.
2. This issue today has more to do with economics and lack of opportunity and hope. But your Dalit friend seems to have confused you with only talk of religion.
3. In India, a secular country which is led by a Sikh Prime Minister, an Italian Catholic politician (Sonia Gandhi), and a Christian Defense Minister, you ask where is the "Hindu outrage". After Independence, the Hindu leaders have been "outraged", and the Constitution (which was partly written by Ambedkar (a Dalit) immediately banned discrimination. As you know, a recent President of India and the current Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of India are Dalits.
4. Confusingly, from Pakistan, an officially and constitutionally Islamic country, you ask where is the outrage from the "upper classes". Why didn't you ask about "Islamic outrage"? Think about this carefully. I think this shows that you have not sat down and thought through your understanding and analysis of this issue carefully and clearly. You have a knee-jerk response to helping the downtrodden, but it is important to understand the problem and the possible solutions. Otherwise, you are just offending people, not helping provide solutions.
5. The extent of poverty is horrible. But what exactly what you do to lift up these people? What should a janitor cleaning toilets at night in the University of Texas do? What should you do to help this janitor?
6. Do you really think that leaders in India, whether Sikh, Christian, Muslim, or Hindu are unaware of the problems of economic and social injustice? On what do you base your charge that people are "silent" about this issue? Especially Dr. Shukla who has worked specifically on the issue of caste-based discrimination.

7. Do you really think you have a better grasp of this issue than, say, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh? Would you like to give him some advice? Do you have a solution or something to offer?

I am sure everyone reading your posts is impressed by your concern for the "sweepers" in Pakistan, etc...
But are you really sure that your understanding and analysis of this issue is clear and accurate?

Your posts with wild accusations with inaccurate numbers are not only irrelevant but distract people from discussing important issues.

Imam Rauf cannot really say anything because he represents government. As a high level government official, it is likely inappropriate for him to say more than he already has. Remember, this is a battle the Imam cannot lose. No judge in America would dream of issuing an injunction against the Park51 Mosque.

Navin1,

Hundreds of millions are not being raped, etc., at the same time, at least.

There are three hundred million "untouchables." They are raped, lynched, bought, sold, confined to inhuman "labor" generation after generation, deprived of an education, indentured, etc.

Five were recently lynched. A child was "sacrificed." This will end, Navin1, in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, etc.

I will be in Pakistan this year, and the "sweepers" are on my agenda. I'm trying to make it to India, but that may not be possible. I've been corresponding with a Dalit academic at UT.

Where is the Hindu outrage? That is what I cannot understand. Why are they silent? Why are the "upper classes" in Pakistan silent?

I do not understand. Don't tell this brown woman about "pink people" until you can answer my questions.

Quoting NAVIN1 :
--------------------
"watchmaker

"are you ready to say no one told the middle east the islam is not at war with the US? Or do you see American people voicing their opinion as war, while islamists call for the death of cartoonist, launch plots to kill movie makers, and attack US interests as historically justified jihad?"

POSTED BY: NAVIN1 | AUGUST 27, 2010 1:44 PM
--------------------

This is exactly the type of bullying masquerading as discourse which should not be tolerated by decent people. Over and over we hear "If you don't repeat exactly what I want you to say then you are one with 'the enemy"."

This is the kind of heavy-handed bully-boy tactic, which is on the level of an elementary school playground, that lead to the nearly deadly throat-slashing attack on a NYC cabbie just because he is Muslim. An attack by an avowed Christian who made no secret of his hatred of all Muslims.

No, I am not "ready to say" whatever you tell me to say. Are you "ready to say" exactly what I want you to say?

And anybody wonders why Imam Rauf is not "ready to say" exactly what the people who hate him and hate Islam want him to say? Freedom of speech includes freedom not to speak.

Harium,

I am a Pathan and proud to be one. Pathan's trace their lineage to either Iranians or the lost tribe of Israel. So my ancestors probably already believed in one God even before Islam and there was no big war to convert us to Islam. We embraced it as soon as we got it.

With regards to Islam amputating Hindus, funny how you're still 80% of population in India and Muslims just a mere 12% inspite of their 1000 year rule. If muslims were really into amputating Hindu religion wouldn't a 1000 years been enough?

Muslims kill muslims, Christian kill many many more Christians and Upper Cast Hindu's kill Dalit Hindu's for as much as crossing their paths, whats that got to with the mosque in New York?

Most of your points are incoherent at best. How does Islam bomb anyone? Was it Hinduism massacring 2000 Muslims in Gujarat, torching their homes, raping their women or just a bunch of fundamentalist Hindu terrorists? Cant you tell the difference between a religion and its followers who may have criminal tendencies?

watchmaker

are you ready to say no one told the middle east the islam is not at war with the US? Or do you see American people voicing their opinion as war, while islamists call for the death of cartoonist, launch plots to kill movie makers, and attack US interests as historically justified jihad?

hariaum.

Farnaz,

"hundreds of millions raped, lynched, bought, sold, human sacrificed"

exageration for a reasoned debate? If this were true, wouldn't India's population be declining.

drum beat of the little nazi boy scout: jews are mony lenders, jews are money lenders.... If you repeat it a thousand times, you might believe it but that doesn't make it true.

Are there a 100 million palestinians being raped by the IDF, a 100 million arabs in Israel being lynched. If you listen to the Palestinians, that may well be true.

You think the mosque is trivial. I suppose you might say the same for islamic colonialism and hegemon. I suppose you might say the same for christian colonialism and hegemon. Why not ask the question of untouchables, genocide, ethnic cleansing in every christian / jewish / muslim column.

Perhaps this is all you have to contribute. oh well, prejudice can't be solved by semantics though to AS's point, it can be inflamed by semantics.

hariaum

It is indeed time for silence.

Imam Rauf has made his position abundantly clear and, given the current atmosphere of outright hatred toward and physical attacks upon Muslims, I believe little can be said that will stem this vicious tide.

The far right wing is constantly beating two drums: one brays and moans and laments "Oh, if only moderate Muslims could denounce whatever we want them to denounce everything will be fine;" while the other drum spews "Imam Rauf is not a moderate, he is a jihadist, he is a Wahabbist, he is a terrorist!"

Nothing anyone can say will keep them from spreading the vilest vitriol and Islamophobia. The wise thing to do is to keep silent.

As for "Hallowed Ground", "the right thing to do would be to move the mosque some undetermined number of miles away from Ground Zero" -- perhaps Murfreesboro, Tennessee? -- this is still the United States, this is still New York City. The proposed building is to be built on private property and paid for with private contributions. How exactly do those against it propose to force Imam Rauf not to build? Shall we also not let the Greek Orthodox church rebuild -- much closer to the actual Ground Zero? Shall we raze all churches, synagogues, mosques, and temples south of 14th Street?

One last point. You mention that Imam Rauf is "still in the Middle East" while his wife answers questions. You conveniently left out that the Imam is in the Middle East as a paid representative of the U.S. Government. Yes, the government recognized the wisdom of enlisting "moderate" Muslims to try to build bridges to the Muslim world and, as a byproduct, to further spread the word that the U.S. is not at war with Islam.

Unfortunately no one told the raging purveyors of hatred here in the U.S. that we are not at war with Islam. And nothing the Imam could say will convince them.

Yasser

still at it. It seems to me the muslims have already come for the Hindus. The christians have already come for the Hindus. You are behind the times. The sword of islam has already amputated Hiduism. Likely your ancestors fell defending Hinduism. Yes, it is a good question, for whom the bell tolls. Perhaps if muslims were to stop tolling the bell the question would be irrelevant. Until thenm, the Sunni bell tolls for Pakistanis and Iraqis for not being muslim enough.

There is a difference in someone having an opinion of disagreement -and peaceful protests- and someone bombing volleyball players. The US may speak of its alarm at islamic colonialism. Islam bombs away.

There is a difference.

hariaum

move the gymosque elsewhere
don't veil the truth with chicanery
this is not a spiritual project
conceived with candor
but another coup for real estate profit
a shame!

Typical Hindu Small Mindedness~!

Aseem you're looking for short term gains as always. Kick the muslims in their teeth while they're down and being attacked by the vicious right wing hate machine. You do not even realize that when these hate mongers are done with the muslims, they'll come after others who they consider aliens like blacks, hispanics, Jews and yes you hindus. They can always make up reasons to hate you. Why dont you take on Newt Gingrich calling all muslims Nazi's, saying they have no right to no mosques in America? What does your silence on that say about you? The seeds of this hatred are bearing fruits already. A muslim cabbie got his throat slashed after he was asked whether he was a muslim by a Christian fanatic. A bomb was planted in a mosque in Florida right at the time of congregation. Its only bound to get worse. You should pray that there's someone to stand for you when they come for you.

Dr. Shukla, once again a very balanced piece that asks important questions. Americans need to know where the funding comes from and his views on shariah and the rights of minorities in Islamic countries.

Apaganplace, I appreciate your comments as a Hindu. Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Sikhs, and Pagans have had many religious places destroyed or replaced with Christian and Muslim churches and mosques, with the non Abrahamic memories of many of them being wiped out.

Farnaz, Dr. Shukla is doing quite a bit on the caste problems plaguing the religions of the world. But your posting is irrelevant to this blog.

"End Dalit trafficking. Make slavery history."

Dalit Freedom Network
http://www.dalitnetwork.org/
------------------------------
The three hundred million Dalit, the hundreds of millions raped, lynched, bought, sold, human sacrificed are waiting to here from you, Aseem.

So am I. This proposed center is rather a trivial issue in light of the Dalit, is it not, Aseem?

And we haven't even considered bride burning, female feticide, etc.

ASEEM?

I'd be interested to see how many people, Muslim and Christian, are willing to swear to committing to the religious freedom of Pagans and Hindus.

Especially as Americans. Not contingent on if someone decides 'God Says So This Election Cycle,' but because *we as Americans say so.*

That this is our oath to each other. Without which we wouldn't even have this conversation.

Muslims and Christians both, on this very board, want to fight over what their God justifies.

I don't hold to either of your authorities.

So, if someone needs reassurance, it's *me.*

So.

Reassure me.

Muslims, Christians. Both of you.

No prevarications. Is this about our religious freedom or just about you two fighting over who gets to be theocrat?

Muslims and Christians have been going at each other and everyone else since you existed.

What I want to know it, what will you swear to, *now,* as Americans?

To me.

To Hindus, Buddhists, everyone.

Cause it seems to me this 'controversy' is mostly about the same old same old.