It's My Body And I'll Cut If I Want To

Jihadist,

I hope you never have to either, dear lady.

Hello Lepidopteryx,

I hope I never ever have to make that choice even if it is ultimately my choice.

Best regards

J

I think many (most?) people's objection to the idea of abortion is the idea that only people have souls, and that killing anything with a soul is murder.

I believe that a fetus becomes a person when it is capable of surviving outside the woman's body. That means it's able to breathe on its own (fully developed lungs), take nourishment orally (fully developed digestive system), etc. Note that I did not say survive without assistance from other people. Being dependent on others to provide you with food, whether from a breast or a bottle, isn't the same thing as being dependent on others to provide you with oxygen from their own lungs.

As for the argument about old people, you don't lose your personhood when you get old. But a person's right to sovereignty over his/her body should extend to the right to choose to die if they so desire. I have informed my husband and my family that I do not wish to live in a state where I must be diapered several times daily, have a machine inflate and deflate my lungs for me, don't know my own name and can't recognize loved ones, etc. If circumstances permit, I will take my own life when that point becomes imminent. If not, I have specific instructions in my living will as to the extent of medical intervention I wish to have implemented on my behalf.

I happen to believe that every living thing from slime molds to blue whales, from blue-green algae to giant sequoias has a soul. It ain't about souls.

If it's inside my body, and it is dependent on the food I eat and the air I breathe for its survival, then, biologically, it's a parasite. I believe that a tapeworm has a soul. Nonetheless, if there is a tapeworm in my colon, I have the right to say that it cannot remain there. Even if I deliberately ate contaminated food, and thus am directly responsible for its presence in my colon, I have the right to kill it.

As for the people who think that the exceptions for the life and health of the mother are over-used, pregnancy is not the walk in the park that some people seem to think it is. While it is a natural process, it is also full of potential for danger, even death. When I went into labor with my daughter (after a textbook-perfect pregnancy), my labor went haywire. She and I both could have died when my blood pressure went through the roof and she went into cardiac distress. If it had come down to the doctor only being able to save one of our lives, I believe that I would have been justified in telling the doctor to save me. My life and health were endangered by my pregnancy, but not until the end of it.

For a pregnant woman who wants a baby, pregnancy is a wonderful thing. I know, I have a daughter who is one of the most wonderful aspects of my life. Her conception was not planned, but the decision to carry her was made after careful evaluation of my resources and ability to be a good parent, and consideration of whether I wanted to be a parent. People who become parents without really wanting to tend to suck at it. I'm pro-choice and I chose to have her - not becuse I felt obligated to, but because I wanted to.

For a pregnant woman who does not want or cannot care for a child, for whatever reason - financial, physical, emotional - pregnancy is a catastrophe. I've been there too - pregnant, with a toddler that I was barely able to keep fed and clothed, and a temporarily disabled partner with no income at the time. My doctor was never able to figure out why my labor with my daughter had gone so badly, nor to predict whether the same thing would happen if I ever had another baby.I was also on medications that were known to cause severe birth defects. There was no way I could cover the expenses of pregnancy and delivery, much less support a severely disabled child. The idea of another labor like my first scared the living daylights out of me. Abortion was the best option.

Many are killed by gang wars in America. Some intentionally and some because they are innocent bystanders. Gang deaths plague the young and disinfranchised.

I am personally opposed to gang wars on philosophical grounds except for compelling social circumstances (revenge and economic instability). But what other people do is none of my business.

I do think the privacy issue is relevant here. Suppose we ban all abortions; how do we enforce this law? Mandatory monthly pregnancy tests, followed by stalking pregnant women to every gynecologist visit? Think about it. Abortion WAS illegal for a long time; women nonetheless manged to obtain abortions, safely if they could afford it, and at hazard to life and health if they could not. Septic abortions were by far the greatest cause of maternal death in this country prior to Roe vs. Wade.

I am not religious at all but I am personally opposed to abortion on philosophical grounds except for medical reasons or compelling social circumstances. But what other people do is none of my business. The other day I drove behind a car with two bumper stickers: one said "adoption is an option", the other "choose life". Both good sentiments, but let's not coerce women ( and fathers of babies) , but rather make assistance and care available to them.

Finally, the same crowd that wants to ban abortion also wants to make birth control illegal or difficult to obtain. This is criminally irresponsible.

Oh..... Now I get it. 'Strap.' WTF?

No, I was referring to people who beat their children, not whatever you thought you learned from Penthouse Forum, d*bag.

Seriously. I'd have you *face* off you for talking like that around my kid, never mind whatever the Hel you thought was you moral superiority for thinking that was my life. Gods.

BTW, I'm actually bisexual, only problem for you is I swore off eedjits a long time ago, and I been with someone about seven years, now.

Let's put it this way. It's often asserted that we Pagans are 'unforgiving.' There are at least three males walking around last I checked, who enjoyed certain continued use of their karotyd arteries after I made certain points about how they might have wished to reconsider how they'd applied certain notions of 'original sin' to certain little girls.

's not often I run lioness energy, but I assure you you do *not* want to end up the wrong end of that, brave Anonymous.

Any further criticisms of my parenting skills you'd care to imagine?

Sport?

"for a lesbian pagan- that an interesting choice of words.."

Do explicate how it is your imagination finds that so 'interesting.' I've been a mother, too.

pagan place said

"to strap your children"

for a lesbian pagan- that an interesting choice of words...

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REMEMBER Ye History, Ye Jury & Everybody’s Biz:

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---

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W A R N I N G: Do Not Fall fot the "TELL A BiG LIE" TRick [a Political Strategy!]

Thank-A-ScHame!

Cause I'll tell you this, you wanna strike down the laws about our civil rights to privacy to feel better than people who believe they actually have a right to privately decide what happens in their own bodies...

Don't come crying to me about your right to strap your children.

Cause I will be there. Or someone like me will.

Funny thing is, if the 'right to privacy' gets overturned in the terms of what Roe V. Wade says,

I'm not sure certain 'Spare the Rod' types will like what that implies about their 'right' to beat the 'born.'

Shall we dance?

As for how the 'right to privacy' really applies to the fundamental freedoms Roe v Wade sets as precedent, well, consider that in America the first laws against *child abuse* had to rely on laws against *animal abuse* for precedent, in facing down the Biblical crowd.

"Roe may have gotten us to a better place in many ways, but it enshrined a notion of privacy that is as morally empty as the alternative is coercive."

I call BS, btw. The implied and corroborated right to privacy isn't 'morally empty,' ....it's in fact the only place where any decision whatsoever can *be* solely moral.

Otherwise naughty old life gets involved.

I have to agree on one point: This is not a discussion for religionists and psychodrama. Hopefully, at some point soon, organized religions, the really powerful ones here--Christianity and Catholicism--will lose their tax exempt status so we won't have to continue subsidizing their interference with government.

"It's really a rather simple concept which only depends on the location. If it's in my body, I own it. If it's in your body you own it. If it's in her body, she owns it."

Dear FreeStinker-

Thank you ever so much for your comment. I completely understand your "simple" concept.

I hope Rabbi Brad Hirschfield will read and appreciate your post.

Beat wishes.

Eleeo and CCNL,

The question of when life begins is irrelevant when the blastocyst-embryo-fetus-developing baby is inside someone else's body.

It's really a rather simple concept which only depends on the location. If it's in my body, I own it. If it's in your body you own it. If it's in her body, she owns it.

Come on dudes, this stuff ain't rocket science.

"By focusing on the notion that "it's my body and I'll cut if I want to", Roe turned this complex issue into a battleground about personal autonomy, and complex psychological issues that would be summarized by my kids as "you're not the boss of me"."

To begin with Brad - a woman's body is not cut during an abortion. Her spawn's body is either sucked (vacuumed) out of her womb or premature labor is induced and the back of the spawn's head is pierced and its body delivered vaginally.

Before you are paid for your comments here- why not educate yourself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XalD8LBNz0M

"But they do not regard abortions as murder."

Brad- If your decision causes a heart to stop beating and that heart is not yours-->

What would you call that act??

If you call it anything less than murder you are lying to yourself.

"Most people in this country sense that abortion should not happen, that it is sad when it does, and that they wish there were far fewer of them --a rough re-statement of the Democratic Party's position on this issue and one with which I agree. But they do not regard abortions as murder. That is why they are not prepared to take away from women the right to make a bad, or at least undesirable, decision."

If you have ears- please listen to yourself-->

Most people in this country sense that slavery should not happen, that it is sad when it does, and that they wish there were far fewer slaves owned... But they do not regard slavery as illegal. That is why they are not prepared to take away from man the right to own another man even though it may be a bad, or at least undesirable, decision.

You have children. Do you own them or their bodies at any point in their development?

Best wishes.

Abortion boils down to one simple question, when does human life begin?

And one paramount law:

Thou Shalt Not Kill

Added considerations:

The soul (if it exists) separates personkind from the animalkind. If personkind starts at conception then said soul is present at said conception. Aborting/murdering i.e. denying nourishment to or poisoning this body and soul kills the body but not the soul. The RCC says the aborted soul goes to limbo. What rubbish!! The souls from aborted bodies definitely would go to Heaven (if it exists) as these spirits would be perfectly pure.

Do said souls require the future ability to think? To be able to know right from wrong? Do the souls of mentally disabled fetuses, have this ability? Do they then have souls or not? Are they to be considered personkind or only animalkind?

Are our mentally disabled brothers and sisters to be considered animals? Have our senior citizens with dementia or Alzheimers lost their souls and now to be considered animals?

Or maybe we should protect all of our brothers and sisters at every stage of their lives without considering the state of their souls??