Finding God in Haiti

Rabbi, the higher-ranked rabbis beat you to your points, or did you recycle theirs?

I wonder why none of the sky god believers have addressed the second question: What is the best scriptural text or explanation of that problem you've ever read?

Religious thinking, the ultimate embracing of superstition, is the path of least resistance for our cognitive systems. By contrast, disbelief is generally the work of deliberate, effortful work in critical thinking, against our natural superstitious dispositions. Because most people have been taught not to think for themselves – and in fact dislike thinking for themselves -- this is hardly the easiest ideology to propagate.

Adolescent cognition leads children to all sorts of supernatural beliefs about how the world works. As they grow up the inclination to illogical supernatural beliefs remains as superstitions about such things as Friday the 13th, breaking mirrors, walking under ladders, fear of black cats…and, greatest of all superstitions, religion.

Common superstitions can be described as beliefs that have no rational basis or supporting facts, such as the belief in god. Some superstitions may be “amusing”, while others may profoundly affect choices made in life. None is based in fact, but most have roots deep in tradition and history. Source of all superstitions is in the irrational and illogical belief in the existence of god. Rationalism and conscience obliterate any need for faith in unseen, unprovable sky gods. When humans lose sight of rationalism, irrational and dogmatic religions arise which are morally deficient, elevating to moral status ancient, arbitrary, and ill-informed rules—taboos on eating pork, for example, as well as dress codes and sexual practices—possibly designed for reasons of hygiene or even mere politics in a bygone era.

Fortunately, as science, the scientific method, and critical thinking skills become more commonplace in our society, religion is more debunked because civilized people lose their primitive fears of what was not previously explained or thought through. Simply put, belief in god is simply no longer necessary, and has never been rational. Even Albert Einstein described belief in God as "childish superstition" and said Jews were not the chosen people, in a letter recently sold in a London auction.

There is, in fact, no god, nor even a hint of proof of god. It is all magical thinking. Ever wonder why god cures the lame so they can walk, and so people can get out of wheelchairs – but he never cures amputees? Because there is no god.

Infantryblahblah wrote:
"voo doo is not faith in god.
voodoo is evil.
evil creates evil.
evil people do bad things to each other.
it is their choice so let them live and die it."

Um, the entire point is that whatever their religion is has nothing to do with whether or not there was an earthquake.

And most people in Haiti are christians my ignorant but self-righteous friend.

voo doo is not faith in god.
voodoo is evil.
evil creates evil.
evil people do bad things to each other.
it is their choice so let them live and die it.
they get our medicine, help during emergencies, food and clothing - but they are not Americans and they dont get a free ride to America.
haitian gangs in America are the most violent - killing and maining with machete's.
we have already imported mexican gangs we dont need more black gangs.

and did you know that blacks that come to America from other countries are given the same affirmative action rights as blacks whose families were slaves in America.

my solution to that one is to deny any such rights to any black that cant show his family history of slavery IN AMERICA.

My estimate of the dead is based on the number of yet missing Americans. Of 45,000 American on the island, 5,000 haven't checked in. Only the dead haven't called home. That means 11% of everyone in downtown Port-au-Prince is dead. In the countryside there is less concrete to topple but less help to dig people free, so the 11% rate would roughly stay the same.

These things happen not because of sin specifically, as if less sin would somehow lessen their occurence. They occur due to the imperfections of the world and of mankind generally.

One thing about Robertson's comments that is particularly troubling to me is this fact: of all the places in the Caribbean, there is no place worse for an earthquake to have struck than downtown Port-au-Prince.

Nonetheless, slavery is a great evil and they were right to rebel against it. For this reason we must commit to helping today's Haitian regardless of any deals their ancestors may have made or not made.

How tiresome...

"...fallen world... blah blah... god is beyond human comprehension... yada yada... not our place to ask... blah blah... mysterious ways.... yak yak... at work in the world... yap yap..."

I always find it amusing to see the theists roll out the "you can't know the mind of god" line and then follow it with crap like, "His concern isnt our temporary happiness, its our eternal righteousness" and "He does not delight in tragedy. I know He is mourning even more than we. But He is also at work and will forver be working."

Let me get this straight - it's only the totally contradictory stuff that we "can't possibly know" but everything else is as plain as the nose on your face?

"There is suffering in this world simply because there is sin in this world. Terrible things happen every day, many that are not ever reported or will never be known. As a Christian, I believe in a Heavenly Father who is Love, who is Holy, who is Compassionate, Merciful, Graceful, Wise and All Powerful."
Thank you, Brooke4, for making it clear how religion is insidious and detrimental to one's intelligence.
You claim that God is compassionate and merciful, yet allows suffering. Sorry, Brooke, those who allow suffering are, by definition, anything but compassionate and merciful. You have suspended your understanding of these simple words in order to accommodate your fantasy father figure.
(Or maybe you just need a dictionary.)

"I do not need to understand the 'why'."
No wonder it is so easy for you to believe in fairy tales, Mr. Hirschfield.

How do the religions explain this one? Was only the 'false' Christian churches destroyed in the Earthquake? Or, did God want new architecture and the current church buildings in Haiti were eyesores to Him so he destroyed them? Or, was God testing people's faith by having their 'loved ones' squished like bugs? Here's to more of the "Mysterious Ways" blarney.

Magical, invisible friends are for idiots and small children.
Period.

Really? Some of you think that because humans sin, god randomly allows things like earthquakes, diseases, and other disasters to kill and maim random individuals around the world?

One would have thought that an all-powerful, loving god could come up with a system that was less, well, sociopathic.

It's obvious that in the case of Haiti, the Great God Shaky Wakie won the match between him and Jesus. Jesus was left powerless to protect the innocent Haitians from a natural disaster; right up the alley for someone like Shaky Wakie.
Look folks. If UNCONTROLABLE, natural and man-made events over the past two thousands years or so have not convinced you that gods are irrelevant in preventing them, then you have officially succumbed to a sightly-altered definition of insanity: Thinking that gods will save the innocent from harm as he kills, maims, injures and destroys their homes and livelihoods every second of every day in every corner of this planet.
I know. I know. God works in mysterious ways, but you would think that religious scholars, the Pope, Muslim clerics and pedophile priests would at least be willing to offer a REASONABLE explanation of this mystery.
What is the most depressing thing about religion to me is obviously intelligent, perceptive, thoughtful people utilizing their genius to make excuses for a god that kills, apparently without remorse or guilt. They spend their lives justifying evil acts by one of the 10,000 gods that have existed in the minds of men since the dawn of written history when they could dedicate their brainpower to help solving the actual causes of the calamities that plague infidel and believer alike.
What a waste.

I agree with the first post. There is suffering in this world simply because there is sin in this world. Terrible things happen every day, many that are not ever reported or will never be known.

As a Christian, I believe in a Heavenly Father who is Love, who is Holy, who is Compassionate, Merciful, Graceful, Wise and All Powerful. Ultimately He is too big to fit into a box, and is too complex for us to completely understand. I'm okay with that, because I know Him and can trust Him. It's taken me a long time to deal with the question of why there is pain in the world. But in the good and in the bad I wil praise Him because HE is Good. I don't know if we will ever fully understand in this life, why terrible tragedies like the earthquake in Haiti happen.

So my question for God is not "how can you let this happen?" but "how can you bear to watch your people, whom you love, whom you created, redeemed, and died for suffer so horribly?" Because of who I know God to be, He does not delight in tragedy. I know He is mourning even more than we. But He is also at work and will forver be working.

A brief response to those who criticized God for not defending the poor, or were quite cynical about the motives of Chistianity, please read the Bible before you criticize. (James 2:1-13, Mark 10:17-29, Luke 10:25-37 are just a few...)I know all too well that there have been many poor examples of Christians that have probably tainted your views, but don't base your conclusions of God on fallen and imperfect human beings. Seek God for yourself. If you truly want to find answers to these quesions, then seek God, not man's opinion of these things. Read all the books you can get your hands on. And be fair. Read books on both sides of the story. That's all.

I find it interesting that a small county of Israel was able to land 2 planes containing a field hospital with modern medical supplies enough to treat hundreds of people within 72 hours of the earthquake. While most of our friends in the Arab world sent nothing.... A Jew says to save one life is to save the world....

First one has to come to grips with the fact that we are living in a fallen world. The curse of sin turned life on earth inside out. We now have tornado's, earth quakes, sunami's, disease, thorns on rose's, mans basid instict is toward 'self' and 'sin', man is filled with greed and deception, cities are filled with poor and homeless while the pornography business is a multi billion dollar industry. These are the effects of sin in this world. This substantiates the Bible and show's our need for a savior. The Bible is the only book that has an answer for why bad things happen to good people and why bad men get rich - why evil exits and gives a solution for the problem. God isnt just benevolant, he is just; he's not just love, he's also holy; His concern isnt our temporary happiness, its our eternal righteousness.

when the people surrounding Jesus asked him why a disaster occured ( a tower fell on many people ) he told them it was not because they were any worse than you, but unless you repent, you will also perish.

Does God judge nations ? you bet ! and he will most definitely judge each person individually. But - we cannot know what his judgments are in each case ( why didnt earthquakes hit Nazi germany ? Why did hurricane Katrina wipe out more churches than casino's? it is presumptuous for us to claim to know the motives and actions of God )
But this we can know -
1. we live in a fallen world
2. one day we will die and then stand before Him to give an account.

Perhaps the real question one should be asking is why God hates poor people? Why do typhoons regularly wreck places like Bangladesh or Burma (or Haiti)? Why did the Indonesian tsunami seem to target the most destitute parts of south-east Asia? Why did the Khmer Rouge crop up in so poor a place like Cambodia? Why do Mid-West tornadoes always hit trailer parks? Pat Robertson, while a perfect example of the most reprehensible "man of God" imaginable, has it right: all you need to protect yourself from the wrath of God is mountains of cash ("In God We Trust") and a sublime sense of self-righteousness. He need never worry about an Act of God interrupting his cash flow.

I agree with Christians' & Muslims' basic commandments:

1. One should exploit others suffering to spread one's own religion.

2. Charity should be done with an ulterior motive to gain power.

3. One should identify weakness in another country and culture. Then, instead of letting them correct problems, one should exploit.

4. Divide and conquer.

5. Always pretend to do charity. This provides the perfect cover for the true agenda.

6. Always remember that my god is better than the other's god. Use this belief to justify and rationalize acts of deception & destruction.

7. Religion is about winning and expanding, not about spiritual development.

8. Might is right.

9. If the whole world can be converted to Islam or Christianity, we will win. Then we will destroy the other inferior religion.

10. Peace on Earth and goodwill to mankind - NOT.

fresnoBob:

Nail on the head!

In order to avoid the Euthyphro dilemma, we'll just slip God in via the Trojan horse of the empathetic response. Or as Brad Hirschfield himself said above: "Defining a question out of existence is not the same as answering it."

"Rather than trying to answer the question of 'why, God' though, we would do better to ask where can God be found in the midst of these horrible events."

Really? Why?

You can't simply brush away the problem because the "answers are unsatisfying."

You ignore the reprehensible actions (or inaction, whichever you prefer) of your god in creating the disaster and then credit him for the actions of your fellow humans in its aftermath and offer that as evidence that this delinquent deity is all loving.

Pat Robertson is a moronic buffoon but at least he has the courage to face up to the fact that these questions demand answers and provides one that at least follows some discernible logic.