Americans want their president to be 'one of us'

ROM8,

Please specify exactly what I have written that is "deceptive" (untrue, inaccurate, wrong).

Anyone who researches it will find I have written only the truth, in context, accurately portrayed.

But YOU try to divert the point (we call that using "red herring" arguments).

My arguments showed clearly and factually that:

1) Mormon leaders will "lie for the Lord" (as demonstrated by their false report to congress regarding the practice of polygamy)

2) Mormon leaders will violate their own sacred scriptures (D&C 134) to mix religious influence with civil government in a way that denies other citizens of their equal rights under the law (Proposition 8). It is well-documented that the LDS Church was the deciding factor in Prop 8.

3) Mormon leaders have such cultish power over the members of their Church that they can (and did for Prop8) "command" their followers to deprive others of civil rights, and it is written clearly in their Temple oaths and covenants that members are expected to give all their possessions and use all their positions and opportunities ("everything with which the Lord has blessed you or may bless you") for the building up of the LDS Church. This includes oaths to give one's life for the building up of the LDS Church. That is an explicit oath regarding a willingness to "give one's life" (suicide) for the Church.

4) The LDS Temple ceremonies at the time Mitt Romney was "endowed" included graphic depictions of cutting one's throat, disembowling oneself, and other acts of suicide as a penalty for revealing the secret oaths and failing to be faithful to them.

These are not lies. These are facts. These are not taken out of context. They are true, accurate, and reliable.

As such, your unsupported assertion that "nothing about Mormon beliefs in general, or Mormon temple ceremonies in particular, that would cause a Mormon public official to violate his or her oath of office" is just not true.

As I have shown, Mitt Romney and other temple Mormons have made explicit oaths and covenants of allegiance to their "Prophet" that take priority over their political responsibilities, civil government, civil law ("the philosophies of men" and "the evil world"), ethics, and common sense.

Finally, you (ignorantly) wrote: "I do give you credit for finally identifying your real motive..."

Nothing I wrote indicated I am a "proponent of same-sex marriage". That is your false assumption. My personal beliefs are irrelevant. What IS relevant is that you have provided NO arguments to counter anything I have reported about Mormonism and Mitt Romney.

Vanka,

It is you who is being deceptive. You are the one taking Mormon beliefs out of context in order to portray the Mormon church as the boogey-man. You clearly know enough about the Mormon church to know that the Mormon eschatalogical belief structure is not material different that any number of other Christian faiths. Like many others traditions, the Mormon faith holds that the resurrected Jesus will return, and when he does all will know that Jesus was and is the Christ.

There is nothing about Mormon beliefs in general, or Mormon temple ceremonies in particular, that would cause a Mormon public official to violate his or her oath of office.

You say the the Mormons practiced polygamy for an additional 10 years after it was officially ended by their church. Even if that is true, it still ended more than a century ago.

When you quote peoples beliefs out of context in an attempt to imply an inaccurate conclusion you are still lying. Fortunately, anyone who has taken the time to get to know a real Mormon knows it.

I do give you credit for finally identifying your real motive. It is no secret that proponents of same-sex marriage are trying to delegitimize those who support traditional marriage by emphasizing Mormon involvement in Prop 8. The widespread ignorance of the Mormon faith tradition makes them an easy boogey man.

But your argument is simply inaccurate. It is not the Mormons or the millions of other religious Americans that supported Prop 8 that are trying to impose their religious beliefs. They are not the ones who have, time and again, used their allies on the courts of this country to create by fiat rights that don't exist in the Constitution. Likewise, they are not the ones using the courts to elevate those imaginary rights above the explicit constitutional protections of religious freedom.

I might add that they are not the ones on comment boards across the internet intentionally lying about other peoples' beliefs.

It is true that Mormons do have some peculiar aspects of their theology that differentiate them from many of the other Christian faith tranditions. But there is nothing secret about it. Mormons across the world are more than happy to tell you about what they believe. (In fact, you might have seen a few of them, they send out a whole bunch of young people in name tags.)

ROM08,

Please cease the deception. You know very well I did not attack Mormons for what they USED TO believe. I explicitly pointed out the stuff that was PAST and that which is CURRENT.

The CURRENT temple oaths that I cited are oaths that Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman make in their temples every time they visit TODAY.

Those oaths don't just promise to build up the generic "kingdom of God" - they are specific oaths to give all possessions and even one's life to the LDS Church!

As for your quotes from LDS scriptures, that is no comfort. We know from history that Mormons believe the word of their living leaders above scripture.

Case in point: The Mormon Church leader told all Mormons to "do all you can" to fight against same-sex marriage (Prop 8 in California). This despite the fact that LDS scriptures clearly state:

"It is NOT JUST for religions to mingle religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied" (D&C134).

Even polygamy was continued secretly for around 10 years after LDS Church leaders swore to Congress that the practice had ceased in the Church (see Quinn).

So, please, stop the lies. Stop denying what your Church really is: a secretive, elitist, imperialistic cult aspiring to "put an end to all nations", and rule the world for a thousand years when "every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" that the Mormon Jesus is in charge!

@Vanka,

Why is it that you and others on this board can only attack Mormons for what they used to do or believe? Let me make a suggestion. All you have to do is make friends with a Mormon and they will tell you what they really believe. Then you can let go of all of your silly misconceptions.

It is true that committing oneself to the building up of the Kingdom of God is an important part of Mormonism (and the rest of biblical Christianity). However, you (and the rest of the US) may rest assured that religious pluralism and self-determination are just as important.

the Mormon's 11th Article of Faith states that:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Mormons who go into the Mormon temples are "endowed". In order to become endowed, Mormons have to pass an interview (like a catechism for Catholics). The endowment ritual includes many things Mormons are not allowed to talk about outside of the Temples. These secret ("sacred") things include special promises and covenants Mormons make to the Church and to God. One of these "oaths" promises total and complete loyalty to the LDS Church and its leaders, including being willing to give all your possessions to the Church if needed.

The oath is something like this:

"Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, ...that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion."

They also promise:

"And as Jesus Christ has laid down his life for the redemption of mankind, so we should covenant to sacrifice all that we possess, even our own lives if necessary, in sustaining and defending the Kingdom of God (LDS Church)."

Mitt Romney has made this oath, and repeats this oath each time he returns to an LDS Temple.

For a POTUS to have made such a secret oath violates the oath of office of the POTUS. The POTUS must not have ANY higher loyalty than to the United States of America and Constitution.

"Endowed" Mormons should be automatically disqualified because of their secret oaths in their temples that place their loyalty to the LDS Church above their loyalty to the United States of America.

These secret oaths are similar to the secret oaths and contracts made by Scientologists - another "American Religion" professed by many famous Hollywood types.

Until only a few years ago, Mormon temple oaths included "penalties" for breaking the oaths:

"We, and each of us, covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this, the first token of the Aaronic priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign or penalty. Should we do so, we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots."

"The brethren and sisters will now stand, push back the seats, place the robe on the left shoulder, and receive the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood. We and each of us do covenant and promise that we will not reveal the secrets of this, the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign, grip or penalty. Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field."

These are just some of the gruesome oaths Mitt Romney made when he originally went through the LDS temples as a teenager.

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Why should we so apprehensive about Mormon candidates for President. Mormonism is the only mainstream American faith. American in the sense that its revelation was to an American, Joseph Smith. Its first apostles were all Americans and is based in the United States. Every other mainstream religions have their roots in Europe or Asia or in the British Isles. Only the Native American faiths are rooted on this continent.

Your "widened sense of we" is another way of saying equality. This is a fundamental value of America and groups or sects who do not reflect this value ultimately isolate themselves. Mormons have to fight their own history to dispell the fears of inequality.

Your headline begs the question, "Who are we?" We are a heterogeneous nation of individuals who have "huddled" into ideological camps with diverse opinions. The goal of the GOP is to use fear and falsehoods to make people believe that anyone who does not share their corporate-dictated beliefs is Anti-American. They have found their niche in the Tea Party since these people seem to believe anything they are told by Faux News including conspiracy theories. As our economy improves over the next year, it will be tougher for these radicals to gain converts and they will have to resort simply to more childish name-calling, a tactic that seems to work on bubba but will fail on intelligent folks.