Don't deny Rauf's true intentions

Mr. Thomas said: "They have a plan to infiltrate us, build mosques and ultimately impose Sharia Law. They say so. They mean so."

My very simple question is: How?

How can the Muslims do this? Please define the process steps for Muslims to impose Sharia Law on me?

You should not make such incomplete fear-mongering statements. The readers should not have to use their imaginations in lieu of your unclear declarations.

I'll tell you one thing, 'Afakir,'when Cal Thomas tells America what he claims *my* 'true intentions' are, either as a queer person or as a non-Abrahamic:

He hasn't spoken the truth yet. So what do you *think* I should think of a Dominionist trying to scare us about a Sufi's 'intentions?'

I think your assessment and all the self-patting on the back that Christianity wants to do is ...Incorrect.

I don't think claiming America for your 'Christ' and then saying tolerating an Islamic minority while demanding more theocracy like Cal here does...

Is spectacularly-wrong.

Christianist Islamophobes have been lying to the world right to my face about my own religion and my own sex life, and no matter how much you claim you can save American liberty by destroying it, you've got one big problem:

I don't believe you.

If you lie and distort about *me,* why should I believe you suddenly found some honor about someone else?

No worries. I'm hardly naive about people waving holy books and claiming to speak for the 'only God' at this point.

But, really.

If I were the biggest cynic in the world.

Really.

What do you *expect?*

Did you or Cal think there was some credibility between us, to begin with?

Apaganplace,
Apparently you want to talk to yourself ... Setting up a strawman of your own liking and then replying to it.

Who is saying or has ever said that freedom of religion in USA should be circumscribed? However, Americans also have the right to free speech and free speech include the freedom to examine any religion and say what one truly believes about that religion. Anyone is free to follow Islam, or Christianity, or any other belief system they want, but that does not mean that others have to "think" that that choice is any good. You are wrong when you claim or suggest that Christianity as it is, is very similar to Islam. It is not.
Now you say:
"The point *is* that if free nations can change Christianity from the very things you decry in Islam *then,* maybe, if we keep the principles clear, it can do it *again.* "

"it can do it again"? What is "it" that can change Christianity from the very things I decry in Islam? Historically "it" that changed Christianity was a process that includes a particular cultural view of the world. You earlier said "American Liberty" and I pointed it out to you that he challenge to Christianity arose and unfolded in Europe and had little to do with American Liberty. And then I pointed out that you yourself stated that understanding of what is Christianity and how Christians would behave was flawed since what actually exists is not what you expected with how you understand Christian societies.

One more time, NO ONE is saying that anyone should be restricted from choosing any belief system that they want. Building of the Masjid is not a matter of "freedom of religion". "They" have all the right to build that Masjid and they should have that right, but should they? Not if they want to make peace with the Kaafir Americans as "They" claim they want to do. They can build their Masjid somewhere else. But if the intent is to send a message to Political islam around the world that Islam is still on its path towards domination of the Kaafirs then that Masjid will be built and the kaafirs should be aware that American freedoms have been used to send an unambiguous message.

""Those are mighty big if's.""

Those are the 'big ifs' we swear to with our American citizenship.

Cause the alternative is trying to choose the style your theocratic master.

The point *is* that if free nations can change Christianity from the very things you decry in Islam *then,* maybe, if we keep the principles clear, it can do it *again.*

Otherwise, what do you propose to *do?* Have a 'purge?'

That never works.

""Which tells that your understanding is flawed. Something is not right since the "christians" did manage to produce and sustain the "freedoms we do have". Why did the christians permit that? And why is there no sign of comparable "freedoms" in any place where Islam is ruling or has ruled?

Posted by: AKafir ""

Actually, where Christian theocratic power *or* Muslim theocratic power is not held in check by an Enlightenment-styled secular government, 'Christian nations' *don't* permit those freedoms.

Our government here was crafted by *Deists,* not Christian theocrats.

Who knew well that government power corrupts monotheistic religions (at least) of any kind.

It's about civil liberties, not which brand of theocracy.

Apaganplace: "I wouldn't have expected a nation so full of Christians to even have the freedoms we do,".

Which tells that your understanding is flawed. Something is not right since the "christians" did manage to produce and sustain the "freedoms we do have". Why did the christians permit that? And why is there no sign of comparable "freedoms" in any place where Islam is ruling or has ruled?

APaganplace: "Fact is, either American Liberty works, as long as we remember the price of freedom, or it doesn't. If it worked for Christians, it can work for Muslims."

Those are mighty big if's. It was not American Liberty that dealt with the Church in Europe. Comparing Christianity as it WAS with what Islam as it IS, makes little sense when trying to deal and live in the present. The historical differences between the evolution of Islam and Christianity are significant enough to doubt that your "if's" have any validity.

Rationality was definitively defeated and killed off in Islam back in the ninth century. Why don't you think of "muslims" who have stood up against the Islamic orthodoxy and survived? The few who have tried were declared apostates and killed. Those who managed to survive compromised with the dominant Islam so severely that they lost all claim to being genuine. If it had been different, Islam would not be what it IS in the here and now.

One more time: No one is suggesting that the right of the Muslims to build the Masjid be taken away. But as an American, it is perfectly valid to expect and desire that other Americans will take into account whether that right should be exercised by the supporters of the masjid. The American Muslim, Ijaz Mansoor (see his opinion in WaPo) gets it exactly right. Build it but elsewhere. If not then the Kaafir Americans should and must draw the appropriate message of supremacy that is being delivered and has always been delivered by building Mega masjids to commemorate victories and defeats of Kaafirs in Islam.

""It is the knee jerk reaction of those utterly ignorant about Islam that "all religions are the same" and Islam is like any other religion. All religions are not the same. ""

I think what worries you about Islam is not where it's *different* from Christianity, but where they are historically actually *just the same.*

I wouldn't have expected a nation so full of Christians to even have the freedoms we do, if we were to look at Christian history toward 'apostates' and 'heretics' and 'heathens,' either.

Fact is, either American Liberty works, as long as we remember the price of freedom, or it doesn't. If it worked for Christians, it can work for Muslims.

And maybe that's what the radicals and Fundamentalists are afraid of. On both sides.

Job22: "The problem isn't the religion per se, but rather those who use religion to spew hate and thus garner power over others for their own gain."

Do you know anything about Islam? The problem is not Muslims here or elsewhere. The problem is Islam's holy book, the Quran, and the life and sayings of its prophet Muhammad. Why do you think Apostates are killed in Islam? Why do you think tens of thousands came out to burn and killed tens over a few cartoon of Muhammad? Why do you think the Saudi Government is trying to restrict who can issue a Fatwa? It is the knee jerk reaction of those utterly ignorant about Islam that "all religions are the same" and Islam is like any other religion. All religions are not the same. There are very many significant differences, and Islam incorporates a very brutal and supremacist ideology within itself. You better educate yourself a bit more about Islam.

Gee, cal, aren't you part of a Christian theocratic movement that wants to build churches, infiltrate the government, and impose Christian Dominionist Law over America?

It seems you do little *but* argue against our secular government when you post here, sir. It's OK for you, but not for them?

The overwhelming majority of Muslims in America came here to get away from their backwards homelands, and can at least live with tolerance as part of the price.

But 0.001% intended terrorists is still too many.

Let's see, why do (religious christian conservatives) who view much of "America as decadent, our women immodest, a people who take their faith less than seriously, tolerate abortion and homosexuality want to (live) here?

Cal I think this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Substitute any extremist part of any religion in those paretheses and it works. The problem isn't the religion per se, but rather those who use religion to spew hate and thus garner power over others for their own gain. Include yourself among the last group.

Where do you get off claiming to be a "political columnist" , you're just the worst embodiment of religious hate.

Of course, it is obvious that Cal Thomas is very anti-gay, too.

Cal Thomas claims to be "Christian" and his column also appears on the Salem internet network website which is a thinly veiled Southern Baptist Convention (aka the Southern Baptist Church denomination) owned website.

He is the right-wing version of Pat Buchanan, who is a homophobic and very hateful Roman Catholic. Buchanan is a guest commentator on the PBS-TV show "The McLaughlin Group."