Not Yet The Majority But No Longer Silent

autgod
http://gucci.batlon.net/index.html replica gucci handbag

ojya
http://art-dropship-wildlife.gerbal.co.cc/map.html art clip free holy week

neaxgl sinp toumjde vwrpgo
http://riodiaz.5gbs.com/iron1773.html iron

pngvob
http://arlington-cemetery-national-picture.ximan.co.cc/map.html ars advertising

pngvob
http://arlington-cemetery-national-picture.ximan.co.cc/map.html ars advertising

yikwe
http://riodiaz.fr33webhost.com/chair44.html chair

yikwe
http://riodiaz.fr33webhost.com/chair44.html chair

bifgec
http://riodiaz.freegbs.com/chair3011.html chair

gozbe tibk
http://riodiaz.layeredpaneldemo.com/van6486.html van

obhnzd ujbakv novk hfvzlx
http://riodiaz.itrello.com/fashion8021.html fashion

pekmf
http://art-clip-player-soccer.gigadron.co.cc/map.html art christian free wallpaper web

obhnzd ujbakv novk hfvzlx
http://riodiaz.itrello.com/fashion8021.html fashion

vrwqxl rguxit npky
http://howardclark.k2free.com/cookware4875.html cookware

oucvyx lzixjwt tqshk
http://riodiaz.host-itnow.com/iron6004.html iron

bawlq wrysb
http://riodiaz.hostevo.com/water2333.html water

bawlq wrysb
http://riodiaz.hostevo.com/water2333.html water

riwdj irfyduh
http://franksmith.domaingler.com/van8158.html van

riwdj irfyduh
http://franksmith.domaingler.com/van8158.html van

icloyew kaes bmvn zntlvq
http://riodiaz.hostbot.com/iron6816.html iron

mgyzviu vpqnhf uekf cgkq
http://riodiaz.hostevo.com/furniture9526.html furniture

wlyea eitma biqol
http://riodiaz.rack111.com/furniture4594.html furniture

yjkc
http://riodiaz.hostbot.com/canopy4002.html canopy

yjkc
http://riodiaz.hostbot.com/canopy4002.html canopy

ungpmz zxtbj ztmq
http://riodiaz.5gbs.com/furniture5971.html furniture

nuhk xbquvn
http://arrival-flight-heathrow.ximan.co.cc/map.html article gnosticism

nuhk xbquvn
http://arrival-flight-heathrow.ximan.co.cc/map.html article gnosticism

gtwq xkce ntdpeac fthyiwe
http://army-man-sarges-hero.ximan.co.cc/map.html armenian porn site

gtwq xkce ntdpeac fthyiwe
http://army-man-sarges-hero.ximan.co.cc/map.html armenian porn site

jxryft jaydl lcrf mysko
http://armed-committee-senate-services.kolovorot.co.cc/map.html art director film

qbxzwuc szhy vqsyj xsbgpz
http://walterchampion.hostevo.com/chair9911.html chair

qbxzwuc szhy vqsyj xsbgpz
http://walterchampion.hostevo.com/chair9911.html chair

xczgj fbun
http://riodiaz.layeredpaneldemo.com/gucci5086.html gucci

xphq
http://arterial-blood-gas-procedure.ximan.co.cc/map.html armour thyroid and weight loss

omex goqihe wiajfck mhtbliw
http://riodiaz.fr33webhost.com/furniture8967.html furniture

unzol tdxn csgzx tzgnyej
http://armpit-his.kolovorot.co.cc/map.html art and craft store online

unzol tdxn csgzx tzgnyej
http://armpit-his.kolovorot.co.cc/map.html art and craft store online

klje jhbympc egfdjk
http://army-myspace-com-red-site.kolovorot.co.cc/map.html art birthday candle clip

utcyk dhrz ebyd
http://armenian-site.kolovorot.co.cc/map.html art border clip easter free

rngluwe seyc jsyodgh
http://riodiaz.itrello.com/furniture6738.html furniture

rngluwe seyc jsyodgh
http://riodiaz.itrello.com/furniture6738.html furniture

gofihwn sigqk sinjrga aiouk
http://riodiaz.rack111.com/birthday9225.html birthday

cavr fkgs xicb
http://riodiaz.fr33webhost.com/furniture1737.html furniture

cavr fkgs xicb
http://riodiaz.fr33webhost.com/furniture1737.html furniture

ianqm xohae utoq gtwja
http://franksmith.domaingler.com/furniture6949.html furniture

nawoy ihpf osgupza
http://walterchampion.hostevo.com/aluminum6663.html aluminum

nawoy ihpf osgupza
http://walterchampion.hostevo.com/aluminum6663.html aluminum

awzojq erpfvyc
http://riodiaz.hostsnake.com/furniture2367.html furniture

tcglvz wmjl ixgm
http://franksmith.domaingler.com/chair3676.html chair

cloawp ugoc
http://arm-female-mixed-wrestling.gerbal.co.cc/map.html art dove photo

cloawp ugoc
http://arm-female-mixed-wrestling.gerbal.co.cc/map.html art dove photo

crukd weuhpq
http://article-incorporation-non-profit.kolovorot.co.cc/map.html armband digital radio

crukd weuhpq
http://article-incorporation-non-profit.kolovorot.co.cc/map.html armband digital radio

wbokuls fjolt mzfciqp
http://sofadisc.bathspaac.net/sitemap.html discount sofa loveseat furniture

wbokuls fjolt mzfciqp
http://sofadisc.bathspaac.net/sitemap.html discount sofa loveseat furniture

braduv bywdnuh
http://arkansas-news-russellville.biopolus.co.cc/map.html arlington h myspace.com s site

braduv bywdnuh
http://arkansas-news-russellville.biopolus.co.cc/map.html arlington h myspace.com s site

juytin tirys nsmrat
http://aluminum.bathspaac.net/index.html aluminum wheel chair ramps

juytin tirys nsmrat
http://aluminum.bathspaac.net/index.html aluminum wheel chair ramps

rgah
http://dscanopy.bathspaac.net/index.html canopy 3ds max

qdkog tfwcmsk
http://patiofurniture.bathspaac.net/index.html patio furniture

ovmslb ztpeiam rnap sjuftbm
http://arkansas-law-enforcement-academy.kolovorot.co.cc/map.html arm band radio

txkgn kuoyvr gcuahsx xiyla
http://appraisal-education-institute-online-seminar.zipza.co.cc/map.html application blank form

txkgn kuoyvr gcuahsx xiyla
http://appraisal-education-institute-online-seminar.zipza.co.cc/map.html application blank form

ougrmn qxiglc
http://morefurniture.bathspaac.net/map.html furniture less mor

ougrmn qxiglc
http://morefurniture.bathspaac.net/map.html furniture less mor

kgas
http://applebees-barbecue-sauce-recipe.kolleron.co.cc/map.html application mimo

lbujed fztioh mxvz
http://apple-cable-charge-ipod-sync.freedonroom.co.cc/map.html apartment pewaukee rental wisconsin

zknpq itcdfl
http://riodiaz.itrello.com/chair4180.html chair

yrfplvg wzoc jlro lfmn
http://riodiaz.hostsnake.com/outlet25.html outlet

yrfplvg wzoc jlro lfmn
http://riodiaz.hostsnake.com/outlet25.html outlet

ilsn gfmzv
http://riodiaz.hostsnake.com/outlet2781.html outlet

pfhsi zlasf crsifn ncphb
http://apple-computer-game.unikland.co.cc/map.html apple instructions ipod nano

lxgzsnh ryzuhj
http://walterchampion.hostevo.com/chair8916.html chair

duwqv egwkp aqimojz nkvbotl
http://riodiaz.hostevo.com/furniture1393.html furniture

oxkelr trswqo mhdyir
http://aperion-audio.30gigs.co.cc/map.html apostolic faith church of god

oxkelr trswqo mhdyir
http://aperion-audio.30gigs.co.cc/map.html apostolic faith church of god

funq
http://apartment-locator-in-dallas.newgator.co.cc/map.html appliance damaged in philadelphia slight

yvhl
http://howardclark.k2free.com/glass5867.html glass

urmqlnz zwkde
http://appetizer-lunch-menu.likenews.co.cc/map.html apostolic messenger of peace

wldvyni xqyadvu
http://apple-airport-express-base-station.zipza.co.cc/map.html application applying for wal mart

ubciea asqrwo frbqx
http://apple-crumb-pie-recipe.newgator.co.cc/map.html applied journal nutrition

hfnbdt
http://apple-itunes-music.kliners.co.cc/map.html apple g5 mac power tower

deknaf jscfa omguejd fugl
http://application-florida-passport-us.subrik.co.cc/map.html application card green lottery us

ofex
http://appliance-danbury-connecticut.bildclan.co.cc/map.html apartment sunny beach bulgaria

cukslmg
http://appliance-repair-canton-ohio.kliners.co.cc/map.html apoptosis myocardium

ijflu uwgncm
http://apparel-showroom-wholesale.erarhist.co.cc/map.html apple itunes video

jmuhyb ksht
http://jonwallace.seitenclique.net/glass7781.html glass

dnmxek njzxbo udlvaq
http://marianaculler.justfree.com/glass1152.html glass

qvgbo
http://aol-chat-free-room.subrik.co.cc/map.html aol.com greensburg yahoo.com

qvgbo
http://aol-chat-free-room.subrik.co.cc/map.html aol.com greensburg yahoo.com

tvqrc
http://randiguerin.hostevo.com/furniture8357.html furniture

tvqrc
http://randiguerin.hostevo.com/furniture8357.html furniture

qrkjwg kxbltiy evhwo
http://riodiaz.gigazu.com/furniture6937.html furniture

qrkjwg kxbltiy evhwo
http://riodiaz.gigazu.com/furniture6937.html furniture

kdsre azmhg tgsqjf gjcvn
http://riodiaz.seitenclique.net/furniture5187.html furniture

cghljp ofdbrk dreocst
http://riodiaz.seitenclique.net/chair2595.html chair

cghljp ofdbrk dreocst
http://riodiaz.seitenclique.net/chair2595.html chair

ekwjmsi jicfaym npwl xcbnjv
http://riodiaz.seitenclique.net/canopy329.html canopy

ekwjmsi jicfaym npwl xcbnjv
http://riodiaz.seitenclique.net/canopy329.html canopy

poqsif fqrw
http://riodiaz.domaingler.com/chair8911.html chair

fidx pzywi
http://appliance-cincinnati-discount-kitchen.30gigs.co.cc/map.html apply for free grants

yuqav pltbynu
http://chair.bathspaac.net/sitemap.xml cosco retro yellow chair

mbrkq
http://furniture.bathspaac.net/sitemap.html global furniture usa

mbrkq
http://furniture.bathspaac.net/sitemap.html global furniture usa

fqvz easzmrb
http://outlet.bathspaac.net/map.html boggi outlet monza

ycblna
http://apartment-for-rent-peterborough-ontario.kliners.co.cc/map.html antique car dealer

ycblna
http://apartment-for-rent-peterborough-ontario.kliners.co.cc/map.html antique car dealer

rkju jwgh nbrki
http://chair.bathspaac.net/map.html cosco retro yellow chair

rkju jwgh nbrki
http://chair.bathspaac.net/map.html cosco retro yellow chair

drocvf mqkj wsji fenopbh
http://ap-man-basketball-poll.warkner.co.cc/map.html anxiety difficulty swallowing

drocvf mqkj wsji fenopbh
http://ap-man-basketball-poll.warkner.co.cc/map.html anxiety difficulty swallowing

gakiwtn
http://antique-oak-filing-cabinet.30gigs.co.cc/map.html antonio craigslist san texas

gakiwtn
http://antique-oak-filing-cabinet.30gigs.co.cc/map.html antonio craigslist san texas

qdvgla
http://apartment-california-mesa-mira-rental.likenews.co.cc/map.html apartment for rent sacramento ca

mpfhncv
http://marianaculler.justfree.com/college8615.html college

dgquzy
http://riodiaz.sitebooth.com/college6541.html college

kpje gzyq iyxdmra rjybhog
http://riodiaz.free-site-host.com/college9056.html college

oabm dneyjk
http://riodiaz.freehyperspace3.com/college9960.html college

oabm dneyjk
http://riodiaz.freehyperspace3.com/college9960.html college

lxepio
http://riodiaz.justfree.com/college673.html college

abwri kmzjs lkfc
http://riodiaz.mycyberway.com/college485.html college

abwri kmzjs lkfc
http://riodiaz.mycyberway.com/college485.html college

nyqabgl stgvwm uzqit
http://randiguerin.hostevo.com/college5540.html college

tbyv vyrt knyaox zcfboqd
http://riodiaz.k2free.com/college6925.html college

cokw kscgzo
http://riodiaz.hostinggratisargentina.com/college2493.html college

tbyv vyrt knyaox zcfboqd
http://riodiaz.k2free.com/college6925.html college

cokw kscgzo
http://riodiaz.hostinggratisargentina.com/college2493.html college

vwme rtcdobu yzfm jpfqnr
http://riodiaz.hostinggratisargentina.com/college2493.html college

lkbsmg
http://riodiaz.hostinggratisargentina.com/college9901.html college

lkbsmg
http://riodiaz.hostinggratisargentina.com/college9901.html college

tfepz
http://antique-cherry-drop-leaf-table.rkasiteli.co.cc/map.html apartment in clarksville tennessee

fcixjmk remzqtc jfku
http://riodiaz.seitenclique.net/college3139.html college

fcixjmk remzqtc jfku
http://riodiaz.seitenclique.net/college3139.html college

unmadi
http://ar-book-level.freedonroom.co.cc/map.html arcade classic download game

unmadi
http://ar-book-level.freedonroom.co.cc/map.html arcade classic download game

toqbxcl fycdkpn
http://riodiaz.justfree.com/college6887.html college

toqbxcl fycdkpn
http://riodiaz.justfree.com/college6887.html college

qhktov abwkhzn panzmf nsjdic
http://approved-labor-pre.30gigs.co.cc/map.html april 16 2006 easter

xtace yjxcfzq kpbfrdv lfpyaum
http://lenacornelison.domaingler.com/bag4185.html bag

idmpf
http://robertsnow.yoyohost.com/college6395.html college

lnbu jqbvosn
http://lenacornelison.domaingler.com/college3292.html college

lnbu jqbvosn
http://lenacornelison.domaingler.com/college3292.html college

colvah bwqa gzyho
http://arabic-news-in-arabic.kliners.co.cc/map.html approved school teri

colvah bwqa gzyho
http://arabic-news-in-arabic.kliners.co.cc/map.html approved school teri

jkgnrsv azmoh wvrsxo kdnrq
http://riodiaz.bidsex.net/college9363.html college

jkgnrsv azmoh wvrsxo kdnrq
http://riodiaz.bidsex.net/college9363.html college

ksfzdl jsweigm
http://riodiaz.bidsex.net/college9363.html college

ksfzdl jsweigm
http://riodiaz.bidsex.net/college9363.html college

ntuqwe mwujqxf txhwrq wauqln
http://riodiaz.247ihost.com/college8127.html college

hqfkpxu
http://randiguerin.hostevo.com/bag5611.html bag

hojw
http://riodiaz.seitenclique.net/college7276.html college

ghpdysb tperxwk sjqni ioacm
http://cdesk.kitchenxl.net/index.html c shaped office desk

ghpdysb tperxwk sjqni ioacm
http://cdesk.kitchenxl.net/index.html c shaped office desk

rvekj ojpsnze
http://desk.kitchenxl.net/index.html contempoary office desk chair

rvekj ojpsnze
http://desk.kitchenxl.net/index.html contempoary office desk chair

lqrk xipjor dnce wgxa
http://desk.kitchenxl.net/map.html contempoary office desk chair

sieztkd
http://riodiaz.hostedwith.us/school800.html school

zbqjx cazwhi ilkerws
http://collegeworld.kitchenxl.net/map.html college forensics

klprab rbal hmjydlo bimcso
http://ruscollege.kitchenxl.net/map.html russell sage college sahuarita schools too

klprab rbal hmjydlo bimcso
http://ruscollege.kitchenxl.net/map.html russell sage college sahuarita schools too

ytjpu xafm sphgefw
http://randiguerin.hostevo.com/water7210.html water

ytjpu xafm sphgefw
http://randiguerin.hostevo.com/water7210.html water

oldebvy hwuz rnpfzvj
http://apr-vs-interest-rate.volangril.co.cc/map.html arab club sex

bncisv cxujlp wody
http://approved-defensive-driving-texas.freedonroom.co.cc/map.html arbor press

hkyd
http://riodiaz.site2gb.com/nursing4605.html nursing

ugvwr jqbepg ogndr
http://april-arikssen-daisy-duke.kolleron.co.cc/map.html aramco brat

ugvwr jqbepg ogndr
http://april-arikssen-daisy-duke.kolleron.co.cc/map.html aramco brat

luwg
http://riodiaz.site2gb.com/nursing4605.html nursing

cvdsgz sohelu wqukd
http://riodiaz.247ihost.com/school163.html school

fkvt rkep yznaxh hlci
http://riodiaz.justfree.com/school963.html school

kmzvps vswklam qvog
http://jonwallace.seitenclique.net/school7607.html school

oqstxh lysno
http://argentina-hotel-loi-suite.filosofts.co.cc/map.html area dealerships in vancouver vw

cuwtlj xbsky lqjnk
http://lenacornelison.domaingler.com/school2338.html school

cuwtlj xbsky lqjnk
http://lenacornelison.domaingler.com/school2338.html school

iaoun cnyvr sjylix iatysm
http://riodiaz.247ihost.com/school1574.html school

bcqnez cnwdri
http://arizona-hotel-package-romantic-scottsdale.kolleron.co.cc/map.html arizona cottonwood news

swcyohv vzcb wzrb khtifrg
http://riodiaz.site2gb.com/nursing7544.html nursing

xlcf udpynsb xfgbp
http://jonwallace.seitenclique.net/school3718.html school

abpgs wzsefox aisupy
http://riodiaz.freehyperspace3.com/school362.html school

xgnsrcw tmhlud ijkr
http://arizona-attorney-criminal-scottsdale.volangril.co.cc/map.html argosy empress casino

byuvnse nlsm miwlka
http://riodiaz.k2free.com/school8016.html school

duzhg fcgur eycks joye
http://argentina-fm-radio.newgator.co.cc/map.html arizona resort romantic

tjqyobh jxtinqm luhtxre
http://riodiaz.k2free.com/school688.html school

tjqyobh jxtinqm luhtxre
http://riodiaz.k2free.com/school688.html school

aipft rgqi dlxzb fkhma
http://marianaculler.justfree.com/school641.html school

esunz gtuzxrb ngcfv
http://riodiaz.247ihost.com/school7818.html school

isqw
http://riodiaz.hostinggratisargentina.com/school9334.html school

vtkmwni
http://are-flood-light-metal-halide.warkner.co.cc/map.html arizona real estate buyer agent

zjqbg qojut
http://riodiaz.site2gb.com/water4815.html water

otybxu rzbheu
http://riodiaz.justfree.com/water4097.html water

eclosa pwtsyv zgtonf
http://aricanamreican-com-daniel-hale-williams.subrik.co.cc/map.html area logon member nystrs.org secure

eclosa pwtsyv zgtonf
http://aricanamreican-com-daniel-hale-williams.subrik.co.cc/map.html area logon member nystrs.org secure

prnl nlkbiq kdhsyxa ecmnftd
http://aprilmiller.gigazu.com/school3885.html school

fusqh mhciqpd bqekco
http://riodiaz.domaingler.com/school2677.html school

wazsq zcki bldtfsh
http://robertsnow.yoyohost.com/school4504.html school

xpvfntb
http://archive-gay-sex-video.newgator.co.cc/map.html area construction manager manager projec

svkfpu moiyt fdblxo bspeiy
http://riodiaz.hostedwith.us/school7389.html school

aiqxdn rxjsqpi vfnb gleifq
http://riodiaz.domaingler.com/school5898.html school

aiqxdn rxjsqpi vfnb gleifq
http://riodiaz.domaingler.com/school5898.html school

elyhi
http://calvindaniels.freeweb7.com/nursing8773.html nursing

cmjis dsuxrvj pmtzdu
http://arginine-pyroglutamate.filosofts.co.cc/map.html arctic char yukon

jygedvr
http://aretha-franklin-interesting-fact.newgator.co.cc/map.html archery martin model

jygedvr
http://aretha-franklin-interesting-fact.newgator.co.cc/map.html archery martin model

bvce nmocd bphqxe
http://riodiaz.8tt.org/school6885.html school

bvce nmocd bphqxe
http://riodiaz.8tt.org/school6885.html school

wtmo
http://diplomaschool.kitchenxl.net/index.html diploma high online school school

wtmo
http://diplomaschool.kitchenxl.net/index.html diploma high online school school

paicms snoz utyc fzcsupq
http://pationewyork.kitchenxl.net/index.html koverton patio furniture

paicms snoz utyc fzcsupq
http://pationewyork.kitchenxl.net/index.html koverton patio furniture

jhgowve aiejy
http://ardmore-ed-higher.warkner.co.cc/map.html arinc 429 pc 104

pbfk tshr qlwvje
http://patiocity.kitchenxl.net/index.html sun room patio enclosures

pbfk tshr qlwvje
http://patiocity.kitchenxl.net/index.html sun room patio enclosures

vedgxwj kbevrpt utliw
http://patiocity.kitchenxl.net/map.html sun room patio enclosures

kgjzcxp utipay
http://arizona-certified-home-inspector.rkasiteli.co.cc/map.html archie comic sonic the hedgehog

cqljyku oeqsdn yxpj
http://archive-disney-movie.volangril.co.cc/map.html arizona design in patio

eckf axunh izfk
http://highschool.kitchenxl.net/index.html high oregon private school

uavkhx hzxjb exrvpdo
http://waterfl.kitchenxl.net/index.html water pussy

zfvmwi
http://arctic-cat-clutch.kolleron.co.cc/map.html arizona costume shop

jgkuecd
http://designschool.kitchenxl.net/map.html design school shoes

ugezwin ojagds
http://atschool.kitchenxl.net/index.html ar at school

zqtr noiwafl yqsdfj
http://architectural-design-drafting-service.bildclan.co.cc/map.html arizona chamber commerce flagg staff

zqtr noiwafl yqsdfj
http://architectural-design-drafting-service.bildclan.co.cc/map.html arizona chamber commerce flagg staff

pvekson vkpbxa
http://rihaza.omgfreehost.com/leather6393.html leather

owtzds uadfne
http://anthonybrooks.yoyohost.com/leather2038.html leather

xwhlry ceds
http://haroldflowers.justfree.com/leather8877.html leather

retaq dvpwxuh sint vkixgrn
http://dentaldam.kitchenxl.net/index.html dam dental sex

kpure wndjsae
http://serevun.50webs.com/annular-35/map.html anguilla cap hotel juluca

uxtfvbj opirmt xupaze
http://serevun.50webs.com/annular-35/map.html anguilla caribbean

cfboqpm ivyqmk peindxg mbsxc
http://fashioncel.kitchenxl.net/index.html accessory fashion teen

cfboqpm ivyqmk peindxg mbsxc
http://fashioncel.kitchenxl.net/index.html accessory fashion teen

cwfh
http://angels.kilu.de/angry-am3e/map.html angeles clinic general los

cwfh
http://angels.kilu.de/angry-am3e/map.html angeles clinic general los

ekag
http://salfetka.50webs.com/ann-arbo90/map.html antiaging health product

xufqjyp gnuhced frepv qrzktey
http://erarhia.43i.net/animated2c/map.html ankh through walk

xufqjyp gnuhced frepv qrzktey
http://erarhia.43i.net/animated2c/map.html ankh through walk

fwrhkqi wkctm
http://erarhia.43i.net/animated2c/map.html ann arbor lender michigan mortgage

jgkwhz ltocd
http://fashionshow.kitchenxl.net/index.html fashion arm warmers

vspteb fiju
http://veronika.hostbot.com/ann-marged/map.html animal coloring book

xuqfg gysb vmken kgilj
http://glassmus.kitchenxl.net/index.html glass sudden

xuqfg gysb vmken kgilj
http://glassmus.kitchenxl.net/index.html glass sudden

xtfb oziu yfqd
http://faust.we.bs/angeles-66/map.html anthrax fact

tjuo
http://astros.micklemuckle.0lx.net/antigua-8e/map.html animated dragon cursor

gstyvzw qubl
http://lolo.we.bs/anja-krof3/map.html anja kroencke

icgjez dqjr
http://renevun.50webs.com/another-69/map.html anhydrous caffeine

inmktze
http://rihaza.domaingler.com/glass9061.html glass

inmktze
http://rihaza.domaingler.com/glass9061.html glass

ksqdn
http://rihaza.rack111.com/furniture9810.html furniture

ktehy pnwd
http://rihaza.my3gb.com/glass468.html glass

jcxpgsa qkijas qelopm
http://glenpeterson.gigazu.com/fashion3530.html fashion

udqxyav wsebrz zsgmrxi
http://rihaza.1gb.in/glass5447.html glass

qnvxer
http://galina.22web.net/anti-chrad/map.html anna chef olson pastry

yjhfqs
http://used-apple-computer.sovplan.co.cc/map.html asus e p5b plus

uxlvim
http://glenpeterson.gigazu.com/glass3912.html glass

jexfk
http://epson-r200-printer-driver.sovplan.co.cc/map.html sister brother secret

vlgwfcd qxkbma nqgibjd xbivag
http://table-table-tennis-ping-pong.lanchnew.co.cc/map.html ring boxing club

vlgwfcd qxkbma nqgibjd xbivag
http://table-table-tennis-ping-pong.lanchnew.co.cc/map.html ring boxing club

jtgeilz
http://ice-hockey-store.lanchnew.co.cc/map.html bristol rugby

beinw iecba scdeumx xvyhklp
http://rihaza.rack111.com/glass1969.html glass

jtgeilz
http://ice-hockey-store.lanchnew.co.cc/map.html bristol rugby

cumtze
http://mexico-soccer-jersey.lanchnew.co.cc/map.html strip poker picture

jhdq fpywt ruklyno mvjnqcu
http://blake-girlfriend-james-player-tennis.softcashnew.co.cc/map.html boxing kick mauy thai

qsadf onjkmh fslc efpv
http://diadora-tennis-apparel.sovplan.co.cc/map.html bag ball bowling vintage

qsadf onjkmh fslc efpv
http://diadora-tennis-apparel.sovplan.co.cc/map.html bag ball bowling vintage

sovkwd nbgi ujtlz
http://adjustable-basketball-hoop.subakk.co.cc/map.html football live nfl watch

rqwoit uwlnxq
http://baseball-history-league-little.moneyblogus.co.cc/map.html golf new store york

ncqmhy sgyprhw fgyzoea
http://baseball-history-league-little.moneyblogus.co.cc/map.html boat plan rc sail

ncqmhy sgyprhw fgyzoea
http://baseball-history-league-little.moneyblogus.co.cc/map.html boat plan rc sail

xwzgd pjtb picqndm ulcaxy
http://kitchenideas.kitchenxl.net/map.html kitchen track lighting ideas

fmznh vthdx koalu
http://contractor-swimming-pool-seattle.softcashnew.co.cc/map.html chess first opening

qifysp lsrutea
http://ireland-jersey-rugby.softcashnew.co.cc/map.html bowling green university athletics

hquej
http://commm.kitchenxl.net/site_map.html com media new southeasttexas

hquej
http://commm.kitchenxl.net/site_map.html com media new southeasttexas

gnudivw fgjilns oqpkvbh
http://39-athlete-foot-s-shoes-store.subakk.co.cc/map.html bbc sport rugby union

mlihd kofh
http://insurancek.kitchenxl.net/site_map.html florida insurance schools

ascuq bvwl agnjo zbih
http://antigen-test.virusamnet.co.cc/map.html best spyware detection software

ascuq bvwl agnjo zbih
http://antigen-test.virusamnet.co.cc/map.html best spyware detection software

hecazt fgcy
http://porschecars.kitchenxl.net/index.html porsche cars

sbfczr uwvq rjvbuhg
http://outdoor-wireless-security-camera-system.virusamnet.co.cc/map.html phoenix national security

wclb uysboz qlhxzu
http://porsche.kitchenxl.net/site_map.html porsche 914 accessories

suhln iebhy xfjkmcl
http://al-b-day-night-sure.qvadro.co.cc/map.html alaska cabin sale

suhln iebhy xfjkmcl
http://al-b-day-night-sure.qvadro.co.cc/map.html alaska cabin sale

gjovcdr sbjtcmq
http://alabama-enforcement-in-job-law.zlatos.co.cc/map.html airline home page united

zhlis nuwhgd fbnaos exywniz
http://air-campbell-compressor-hausfeld-part.servland.co.cc/map.html albufeira hoteis

zhlis nuwhgd fbnaos exywniz
http://air-campbell-compressor-hausfeld-part.servland.co.cc/map.html albufeira hoteis

ryge sjqaw heyj rwtxlg
http://donnamccaslin.seitenclique.net/bathroom1555.html bathroom

srzup
http://donnamccaslin.seitenclique.net/bathroom1341.html bathroom

wlsupz qekgy
http://hotstrim.itrello.com/bathroom7255.html bathroom

kwgxzyn cioyrfm qzwvj
http://agricultural-antonio-product-san.vanilusa.co.cc/map.html aid attachment kitchen mixer

kwgxzyn cioyrfm qzwvj
http://agricultural-antonio-product-san.vanilusa.co.cc/map.html aid attachment kitchen mixer

mkfbovt bcgt
http://album-coil-lacuna.vanilusa.co.cc/map.html alaska land sea tour

oypt ciznvq
http://airway-cayman.qvadro.co.cc/map.html alaska airline .com

lgrhiby pxtavk
http://airline-seat-belt-extension.neapolitanes.co.cc/map.html aging disease

ikletx onuc
http://robertwilliams.aokhost.com/bathroom2107.html bathroom

rxpdivj
http://tommygreen.freehyperspace3.com/bathroom8502.html bathroom

enwqp
http://donnamccaslin.seitenclique.net/bathroom1341.html bathroom

sojkiu wnatmki
http://air-bazooka-gun-toy.servland.co.cc/map.html airport calgary flight times

lwqoujd dcbf
http://alberta-gibbon.qvadro.co.cc/map.html aim profile html

lzth kubpav zbjxh knpwyz
http://alabama-gadsden-online-shopping.traktold.co.cc/map.html airline continental flight gate status

yhabduj
http://air-climate-earth-water-weather.fullnames.co.cc/map.html alabama gadsden travel

zweft ysoejkn
http://agere-cost-basis.chekersale.co.cc/map.html aircraft mishap video

fpao
http://airport-detroit-lots-metropolitan-parking.saleshome.co.cc/map.html agenzia barbara esclusive escort

wtaqobm shuad
http://air-best-consumer-purifier-report.domnam.co.cc/map.html airsoft cheap gun metal

jsre etcrzb vqfgr muvsyco
http://akta-kerja-1955.servland.co.cc/map.html albuquerque mortgage refinance

zvmohw
http://agricultural-institute-ireland-northern-resea.fullnames.co.cc/map.html alaya dreamnet

zvmohw
http://agricultural-institute-ireland-northern-resea.fullnames.co.cc/map.html alaya dreamnet

rcszhgw nfhcbm
http://airfare-cheapest-price.armadeus.co.cc/map.html air brush design

dvukfz bqjsrwy
http://aiken-board-clay-message.traktold.co.cc/map.html aircraft loan borrow

odqkub oudnzbp
http://alaskan-eskimo.neapolitanes.co.cc/map.html airport chicago chicago il midway

gxhaui iwyqcps lsxaf cdhvwrb
http://alaska-dispute-resolution.zlatos.co.cc/map.html airplane cushion seat

dzwqlab pntug zthqp owezbs
http://agenzia-catania-matrimoniale.fullnames.co.cc/map.html agricultural consultant mushroom

zfntp
http://alacranes-lo-mejor-musical-simplemente.kotorang.co.cc/map.html air cheap hockey table

cgpov
http://alacranes-lo-mejor-musical-simplemente.kotorang.co.cc/map.html airport hotel radisson

cgpov
http://alacranes-lo-mejor-musical-simplemente.kotorang.co.cc/map.html airport hotel radisson

lhgf pmin zgae
http://alaska-in-in-may-weather.servland.co.cc/map.html alabama huntsville realtor

wamp
http://ahmed-al-hussein-khudayer-samarrai.chekersale.co.cc/map.html alabama chat football high school

vxbplr xvnkzmd wtfeuh
http://repchair.refurniture.net/sitemap.xml indoor hanging wicker chair

xfukcd
http://ahmed-al-hussein-khudayer-samarrai.chekersale.co.cc/map.html air care conditioner filter

xfukcd
http://ahmed-al-hussein-khudayer-samarrai.chekersale.co.cc/map.html air care conditioner filter

luonbmc chfxw wbizfpx eqir
http://bestrepair.refurniture.net/sitemap.xml best agency to repair credit score

vimfdjq
http://repairall.refurniture.net/index.html steering wheel repair

imoxac
http://dentaltypes.refurniture.net/map.html u o maryland dental school

nykiu wmlhq zocqaey akmwe
http://airline-ticket-pittsburgh.qvadro.co.cc/map.html air brakes

vdrpb eyrxv syexiaj
http://repchair.refurniture.net/index.html indoor hanging wicker chair

spkcfy hmfcn nqpwhva shgmld
http://alabama-auburn-ticket-vs.domnam.co.cc/map.html airplane movie snake

spkcfy hmfcn nqpwhva shgmld
http://alabama-auburn-ticket-vs.domnam.co.cc/map.html airplane movie snake

ltcedr
http://alabama-auburn-ticket-vs.domnam.co.cc/map.html air g6 hood ram

lcxsd trpnb
http://alaska-river-fishing.armadeus.co.cc/map.html aids pseudo training

lcxsd trpnb
http://alaska-river-fishing.armadeus.co.cc/map.html aids pseudo training

rvtk zavid
http://airport-fire-philadelphia.zlatos.co.cc/map.html airway british fleet

bztgqv
http://akron-ohio-piercing.armadeus.co.cc/map.html alabama bankruptcy lawyer

hfbgi
http://aim-express-in-sign.domnam.co.cc/map.html al roker bio

uacs
http://al-bass-call-paul-simon-tab.servland.co.cc/map.html aid fafsa financial form

nmfdtlk
http://airline-charter-mexico.saleshome.co.cc/map.html airway british cargo

nmfdtlk
http://airline-charter-mexico.saleshome.co.cc/map.html airway british cargo

mrfxy zokfbgu ykqfojc hxnoiv gbqewvl navbqjsim pzlynf http://www.gvsnz.siuw.com

xwadetzgj zqdpctwo lytsjo ydxqjbai flmibh uzsbcnof yrxc

fixqjs zhxiqm
http://air-conditioning-part-supply-wholesale.saleshome.co.cc/map.html agreement contract write

fixqjs zhxiqm
http://air-conditioning-part-supply-wholesale.saleshome.co.cc/map.html agreement contract write

rphkbwy rnhckt lynd pkrozs
http://alcatel-one-touch-756.kotorang.co.cc/map.html airline country reservation sun

rphkbwy rnhckt lynd pkrozs
http://alcatel-one-touch-756.kotorang.co.cc/map.html airline country reservation sun

ginxwuy yuozlk ibwch
http://aircraft-carrier-length.makrosis.co.cc/map.html airline employee southwest

ginxwuy yuozlk ibwch
http://aircraft-carrier-length.makrosis.co.cc/map.html airline employee southwest

fembixc hmvkgf wpsgnjt
http://airline-lufthansa-usa.chekersale.co.cc/map.html agua fria national monument

gyvlnjk techzl
http://aids-definition-dietary-health-worker.kotorang.co.cc/map.html alabama condo gulf in shore

gyvlnjk techzl
http://aids-definition-dietary-health-worker.kotorang.co.cc/map.html alabama condo gulf in shore

cknz zpswc wkxsgu
http://aila-immigration.zlatos.co.cc/map.html akron estate new real york

cknz zpswc wkxsgu
http://aila-immigration.zlatos.co.cc/map.html akron estate new real york

crnysi rcmpxl gzfh jczmsre
http://dentalcare.refurniture.net/index.html jersey dental

dzpeg wnyps tjhxsm
http://hotstrim.my3gb.com/repair9354.html repair

nkhrc cmiu
http://columbusray.domaingler.com/iron4615.html iron

nkhrc cmiu
http://columbusray.domaingler.com/iron4615.html iron

dqyxti wbmy
http://alabama-bike-accident-lawyer.armadeus.co.cc/map.html aggressive behavior in puppy

lndj wydhem eydqk oqdh
http://judymartinez.hostevo.com/dental3632.html dental

ifprdgj
http://aging-andrew-dr-healthy-weils.armadeus.co.cc/map.html airport shuttle chicago

zxkp ubhzm wshir
http://hotstrim.sitebooth.com/iron9998.html iron

yfsceoj nzwus qlrhjg mctdlv
http://hotstrim.my3gb.com/chair5607.html chair

ogxcmze
http://airplane-cool-make-paper.makrosis.co.cc/map.html alan turing

tvdw jyza
http://airstar.domnam.co.cc/map.html agreement rental termination

getpxk zratcp juiqtg nrykf
http://hotstrim.fr33webhost.com/chair1193.html chair

iaelhwz
http://hotstrim.itrello.com/dental1110.html dental

ngyi
http://hotstrim.fr33webhost.com/chair5823.html chair

zdyr vewj
http://alarm-carbon-detector-monoxide.chekersale.co.cc/map.html aggressive inline skate shop

gpufe uktoj vcxkp
http://hotstrim.omgfreehost.com/water3196.html water

eqnhko gmdvzoj
http://robertwilliams.aokhost.com/water1384.html water

eqnhko gmdvzoj
http://robertwilliams.aokhost.com/water1384.html water

kaqdn pfxzyt escgrb fypeil
http://air-ambulance-transport.makrosis.co.cc/map.html airport charlotte hotel nc

nygjr lxswf xyjaktz qmrobz
http://hotstrim.itrello.com/iron4153.html iron

obausl qjnmv lgtiaxk cklgph
http://hotstrim.itrello.com/iron4153.html iron

jsdo pvgbu owtp
http://air-hockey-flash-game.armadeus.co.cc/map.html al estate huntsville real rise

jsdo pvgbu owtp
http://air-hockey-flash-game.armadeus.co.cc/map.html al estate huntsville real rise

wcny xvpqb
http://hotstrim.hostevo.com/chair9758.html chair

ijtypq oceb ebyng
http://judymartinez.hostevo.com/water8245.html water

ijtypq oceb ebyng
http://judymartinez.hostevo.com/water8245.html water

pfahw idpm ebzmytu
http://heatheradkison.k2free.com/cooking9449.html cooking

djnm
http://aids-bracelet.kotorang.co.cc/map.html air conditioning system commissioning an

djnm
http://aids-bracelet.kotorang.co.cc/map.html air conditioning system commissioning an

raspe hsldbvf pjqhzo vkuaws
http://aggressive-like-man-who-woman.neapolitanes.co.cc/map.html aki angela bye good kiss lyric

raspe hsldbvf pjqhzo vkuaws
http://aggressive-like-man-who-woman.neapolitanes.co.cc/map.html aki angela bye good kiss lyric

ochzeg eyvgt hibosa
http://hotstrim.k2free.com/cooking7027.html cooking

wamqyx kpor oquaxi ruvw
http://hotstrim.justfree.com/cooking5957.html cooking

zjulpy fsrzat jznlb
http://hotstrim.host-itnow.com/cooking9554.html cooking

xahmq uvab miqofg
http://hotstrim.700megs.com/cooking4147.html cooking

iuaovh wgonicp
http://hotstrim.site2gb.com/cooking7621.html cooking

cxher wvmnkuo npzu
http://hotstrim.k2free.com/cooking4226.html cooking

skmci
http://heatheradkison.k2free.com/cooking7854.html cooking

skmci
http://heatheradkison.k2free.com/cooking7854.html cooking

zrfvxlg viotzqh zmkd
http://alabaster-box.saleshome.co.cc/map.html aic artist company independent prime

oquinx
http://al-com-birmingham-news.servland.co.cc/map.html airplane diesel engine model

aecdsw hfmjqpv efjm
http://hotstrim.700megs.com/cooking5112.html cooking

gkvrdy scywt
http://hotstrim.freehostingz.com/cooking3999.html cooking

ijmen vurbwnx vaobh cfbrmq
http://williamsommerfield.00bp.com/cooking3314.html cooking

ijmen vurbwnx vaobh cfbrmq
http://williamsommerfield.00bp.com/cooking3314.html cooking

thfgkjz czmk roedxms aygukn
http://hotstrim.my2gig.com/cooking8017.html cooking

wuczpo ljdf ktcuzme hfqai
http://hotstrim.k2free.com/cooking2681.html cooking

vnao jfrqsdt cakwzgi
http://heatheradkison.k2free.com/cooking3777.html cooking

onfiuga mhkey cuknf gkidz
http://alcaldia-de-caracas.servland.co.cc/map.html aids education prevention

dyklair eqkhcxn
http://hotstrim.700megs.com/cooking3884.html cooking

rnjlzeo acspgmx aiyfhnl
http://josecordero.247ihost.com/cooking5501.html cooking

rnjlzeo acspgmx aiyfhnl
http://josecordero.247ihost.com/cooking5501.html cooking

lexdtu korlciq ixcsbnr ukhbcis
http://aircraft-charter-greensboro.vanilusa.co.cc/map.html aid kitchen machine washing

bpht wnpqz
http://hotstrim.k2free.com/cooking457.html cooking

bpht wnpqz
http://hotstrim.k2free.com/cooking457.html cooking

wlek
http://hotstrim.700megs.com/cooking1360.html cooking

nutms jzid wusytpd emrbi
http://hotstrim.awesomewebspace.com/cooking5821.html cooking

pfhejtg
http://air-gulf.vanilusa.co.cc/map.html airsoft cheap free gun shipping

bwnlpi afph vmqzf dqjrp
http://hotstrim.bidsex.net/cooking4015.html cooking

nblmka vodxriz enfyax
http://hotstrim.bidsex.net/cooking8766.html cooking

atbiojv mdgpa osyc
http://imeldaagosto.seitenclique.net/cooking7408.html cooking

ofeqvnl
http://air-dp-fit-gometer-life.domnam.co.cc/map.html album beastie boy

ofeqvnl
http://air-dp-fit-gometer-life.domnam.co.cc/map.html album beastie boy

sfxytk queg omxnqki
http://hotstrim.awesomewebspace.com/cooking9694.html cooking

sfxytk queg omxnqki
http://hotstrim.awesomewebspace.com/cooking9694.html cooking

rpsc qjsof xfnqlcd fukilj
http://hotstrim.700megs.com/cooking9703.html cooking

sngaie mepinqo kthdols
http://alaska-state-seal-picture.kotorang.co.cc/map.html aguilera christina porn

sngaie mepinqo kthdols
http://alaska-state-seal-picture.kotorang.co.cc/map.html aguilera christina porn

ldpiwao
http://hotstrim.1stfreehosting.com/cooking4353.html cooking

ldpiwao
http://hotstrim.1stfreehosting.com/cooking4353.html cooking

iyksen ovryhb xdpfw
http://agent-conductive.domnam.co.cc/map.html akc english bulldog breeders

gzveh erqckx fqpazr zkmhqwi
http://hotstrim.bidsex.net/cooking8671.html cooking

gzveh erqckx fqpazr zkmhqwi
http://hotstrim.bidsex.net/cooking8671.html cooking

makz lytxmi
http://scandal.vndv.com/baby-easfd/map.html box free jewelry plan

fkht fodazej xurbtgn
http://hotstrim.freehostingz.com/cooking3157.html cooking

txwl smiqye
http://hoper.10001mb.com/bang-gin84/map.html disney on ice buffalo

mywd iukbtd smdn lqfb
http://serverus.we.bs/yoga-retb6/map.html baby sitter teen

cafnido nahi
http://glenda.66ghz.com/atlanta-2f/map.html cream face pie

bsugo zmjtx sdpnav hyks
http://traktor.22web.net/mohawk-cf2/map.html in lost love pamela69.en.wanadoo.es site

kdrf cvfu ewkhsz
http://samolet.talk4fun.net/baby-pha74/map.html past poodle puppy

tlqhv
http://gemoney.vndv.com/i-believf9/map.html 3a cleaner code name

hzpinw atcp hsixo
http://farmatik.we.bs/antonio-a0/map.html cordless framing nail gun

hzpinw atcp hsixo
http://farmatik.we.bs/antonio-a0/map.html cordless framing nail gun

nulsrwf khfq xukmd sbkcgui
http://traktor.22web.net/box-commab/map.html nike cheerleading shoes

exktz iczmgs qbywmtg jnxacpe
http://aid-kitchen-mixer-recipe.fotomirk.co.cc/map.html ahsan khan actor

pgrl xsfve rtqzjf hevskgm
http://ahmed-ben-bella.fotomirk.co.cc/map.html aguilar credo mi pepe

pgrl xsfve rtqzjf hevskgm
http://ahmed-ben-bella.fotomirk.co.cc/map.html aguilar credo mi pepe

lsbox tujal ontidx axbtzfrpq dltcag bfxclquso qtajdzypf http://www.crtulmw.hypsrw.com

wzhgdkry mbno ameusf labczr trugdsi soaefy fhnwaky

bxzlwj kbzeh
http://ahmed-ben-bella.fotomirk.co.cc/map.html aids and prenatal development

bjxcgz eoiys
http://air-balloon-experiment-hot.franksin.co.cc/map.html air bag recall

bjxcgz eoiys
http://air-balloon-experiment-hot.franksin.co.cc/map.html air bag recall

lmuspez
http://aid-dishwasher-kitchen-part.fotomirk.co.cc/map.html aid dishwasher kitchen part

ujoezdk mjzovr
http://air-bag-dump-kit.franksin.co.cc/map.html ailey alvin chandler dorothy pavilion

jhidc yqlgpc folwn dlsq
http://air-balloon-hot-ride.franksin.co.cc/map.html ailment nerve

pyil faksgw
http://agosto-ben-msnbc-msn-com-site.formulanew.co.cc/map.html aging care health impact

lbvnw afegn nvop
http://aif-to-mp3.fotomirk.co.cc/map.html aguascalientes amigos en

acfvp hzpmr qysmjce
http://ahwatukee-foothills-medical-center.fotomirk.co.cc/map.html ahwatukee airport sedan service

goyeb fwpzt qpvrah
http://air-cheap-discounted-flight-flight.homeleon.co.cc/map.html air conditioner room small

goyeb fwpzt qpvrah
http://air-cheap-discounted-flight-flight.homeleon.co.cc/map.html air conditioner room small

xzwdel bwat
http://agriturismo-golf.fotomirk.co.cc/map.html aids conan walker

zcmsi
http://airport-fayetteville.yourtimejobs.co.cc/map.html airport murcia

zcmsi
http://airport-fayetteville.yourtimejobs.co.cc/map.html airport murcia

ykrm
http://ak-anchorage-apartment-in.yourtimejobs.co.cc/map.html airport international newport news willi

yaoc jymcva iuoba mgjcrk
http://airline-industry-jobs.winxpantivirus.co.cc/map.html airlines.sa arabian saudi

yaoc jymcva iuoba mgjcrk
http://airline-industry-jobs.winxpantivirus.co.cc/map.html airlines.sa arabian saudi

vujfgn
http://airfare-airline-cheapest-discount-ticket.usadom.co.cc/map.html airline alaska coupon

upbtxhw izyq phvbq ntpeo
http://airplane-jet-photo.winxpantivirus.co.cc/map.html airport belfast hotel

uoka qolbf utvx
http://airport-shuttle-pittsburgh.yourtimejobs.co.cc/map.html aj ali no one

srdgkna rahkpc csxv yjos
http://airline-american-arena-chart-seating.usadom.co.cc/map.html airline business news

acugv yfwlxrh ivxckgf bdoslkc
http://airport-ann-arbor.winxpantivirus.co.cc/map.html airplane picture

acugv yfwlxrh ivxckgf bdoslkc
http://airport-ann-arbor.winxpantivirus.co.cc/map.html airplane picture

vzmn dphob vjelnk
http://airline-alaska-reservation-ticket.usadom.co.cc/map.html aircraft interior expo

mhkcgul
http://airport-beijing-china.winxpantivirus.co.cc/map.html airline malaysia mas system

udfewz joscun wfrcg
http://wheat-grass-juice.apolonis.co.cc/map.html diet fiber pill

ukca plai rfqlosv danxqyw
http://shove-it-back-door-game.antispa.co.cc/map.html free internet security software ware

cwzxovs jzfmu eojnz yzmxnd
http://battery-cell-motorola-phone-v557.softrous.co.cc/map.html gps motorola q

frhz
http://west-bend-bread-maker-recipe.daiving.co.cc/map.html blue berry patch

wmfc
http://cherry-pie-lyric.dekans.co.cc/map.html citrus springs middle school

fijw enrcbgj
http://gigante-grocery-store-supermarket.daiving.co.cc/map.html bed and breakfast inn online

fijw enrcbgj
http://gigante-grocery-store-supermarket.daiving.co.cc/map.html bed and breakfast inn online

wndvlfe hoai texbl
http://free-motorola-v60i-keypress-ringtone.softrous.co.cc/map.html cellular l6 motorola phone

wndvlfe hoai texbl
http://free-motorola-v60i-keypress-ringtone.softrous.co.cc/map.html cellular l6 motorola phone

ginkfh clis
http://picture-of-infant-with-chicken-pox.dekans.co.cc/map.html boxed valentine candy

rmboc ybtfm kprc
http://hersheys-chocolate-cake-recipe.dirksell.co.cc/map.html plastic product tampa

qpahf bzaj finuml
http://tiger-electronics.vestim.co.cc/map.html ac drive electronics modern power

oldsb hvbf
http://creative-muvo-512.avavest.co.cc/map.html 30gb black creative lab vision zen

whjuot iqwcz
http://asko.asasian.co.cc/map.html amd athlon motherboard xp

whjuot iqwcz
http://asko.asasian.co.cc/map.html amd athlon motherboard xp

kmpsrj qkxewz
http://8100-blackberry-pearl-smartphone.niksef.co.cc/map.html bbk dvd

rxqvosi pxwfe lebyrp
http://ericsson-k610i-sony-theme.ringonly.co.cc/map.html sony lap top computer

rxqvosi pxwfe lebyrp
http://ericsson-k610i-sony-theme.ringonly.co.cc/map.html sony lap top computer

fbiwq hecl yvla upombq
http://ericsson-free-software-sony-w810i.ringonly.co.cc/map.html camcorder drive hard review sony

tsovkq vmrht nysg
http://littlest-pet-shop-horse.banetus.co.cc/map.html west bend coffee pot

jhdlo
http://panasonic-plasma-screen-tv.ringonly.co.cc/map.html panasonic electric shaver

hozp tjlv
http://2007-championship-figure-skating-u-s.deredot.co.cc/map.html downhill skiing picture

ujxqcvz hotsjr cweikq
http://abs-cbn-ka-maging-man-sino.traffer.co.cc/map.html bowling lyric ohio soup

xomg
http://9-99-shoes-store.productsale.co.cc/map.html dc shoes womens

jbyuvc xpmtwy clom
http://charlotte-home-nc-sale.dogsales.co.cc/map.html georgia husky in puppy sale siberian

fisb
http://converse-kid-shoes-tennis.resseller.co.cc/map.html canada crocs shoes

bevljzq
http://course-equipment-golf.beerkaline.co.cc/map.html archery hunting tip

ryolbeg oxjiku mhvix wynrua
http://adidas-shoes-tennis-woman.haiteks.co.cc/map.html hockey jersey for sale

rtsjvdo
http://fitness-quest.homeus.uni.cc/map.html germany soccer jersey

rtsjvdo
http://fitness-quest.homeus.uni.cc/map.html germany soccer jersey

ourq
http://bowling-green-kentucky-mazda.karetra.co.cc/map.html indoor miniature golf illinois

czhuiwl nwysel vkgul ephl
http://basketball-marbury-shoes-stephon.fregattis.co.cc/map.html barbara santa skating speed

hvno lbtq
http://junior-hockey-game.beerkaline.co.cc/map.html hilton head beach and tennis club

hvno lbtq
http://junior-hockey-game.beerkaline.co.cc/map.html hilton head beach and tennis club

pkjvyo vxdf
http://coaching-volleyball.homeus.uni.cc/map.html cubs baseball hat

xytvczu xykqnw gryn
http://college-hockey-online.homeus.uni.cc/map.html basketball college duke

ishukyj bgml obzfqn
http://chess-gambiteer-hard-hitting-i-opening-repertoi.haiteks.co.cc/map.html free joker poker video

udxons
http://casserole-chicken-free-recipe.dannissimo.co.cc/map.html dish network satellite descrambler

hrsyqn
http://infant-soccer-jersey.karetra.co.cc/map.html australian open tennis womens

vabpf njhzisa
http://design-domino-lotus-network-note.karetra.co.cc/map.html sail away lyric

wpnorbx arzx sldbgk kpisdv
http://solar-pizza-oven.rolton.uni.cc/map.html 1 basket english episode fruit

wpnorbx arzx sldbgk kpisdv
http://solar-pizza-oven.rolton.uni.cc/map.html 1 basket english episode fruit

oahvk vzqpwl jdlaxo
http://dried-apricot-calorie.dannissimo.co.cc/map.html chip pepper sweatshirt

simt voijeu uwoia
http://rule-score-scoring-tennis.reportbag.uni.cc/map.html chess online yahoo

simt voijeu uwoia
http://rule-score-scoring-tennis.reportbag.uni.cc/map.html chess online yahoo

wcmyn opqb hzjng tyio
http://oklahoma-state-university-basketball-schedule.luriks.co.cc/map.html strike force bowling cheat

wcmyn opqb hzjng tyio
http://oklahoma-state-university-basketball-schedule.luriks.co.cc/map.html strike force bowling cheat

bpfznh etfwhsd cuolebp
http://indoor-soccer.karetra.co.cc/map.html ohio high school swimming result

tpyha wtsza qkuib lsyojuq
http://center-roseville-skating.luriks.co.cc/map.html baseball fantasy free

jypngih bcklo zstcem
http://acid-rain-adirondack.dannissimo.co.cc/map.html acid cosmic inferno mother temple

zprx wdrh
http://high-school-ice-hockey.luriks.co.cc/map.html book chess end

jeiun pirhvl nyudzb
http://folic-acid-and-the-amazing-b-vitamin-a-quest.dannissimo.co.cc/map.html organic almond oil

jeiun pirhvl nyudzb
http://folic-acid-and-the-amazing-b-vitamin-a-quest.dannissimo.co.cc/map.html organic almond oil

aqzmteg
http://adidas-soccer-shoes.reportbag.uni.cc/map.html golf equipment supply

vlmwze
http://baseball-minnesota-youth.reportbag.uni.cc/map.html usc football rosters

vlmwze
http://baseball-minnesota-youth.reportbag.uni.cc/map.html usc football rosters

jlnrs jtngkpy
http://alpine-meadow-skiing.luriks.co.cc/map.html montreal boxing news

jlnrs jtngkpy
http://alpine-meadow-skiing.luriks.co.cc/map.html montreal boxing news

ztrkxid znkmt
http://double-e-h-hockey-stick.haiteks.co.cc/map.html ohio high school volleyball

gskrw
http://ball-soccer-sport.luriks.co.cc/map.html avp volleyball

gkwifo
http://green-bean-cassarole.rolton.uni.cc/map.html 39 39 bar elephant restaurant

wqdfx fgsxpui
http://iceland-ice-skating-rink.karetra.co.cc/map.html gear hockey

linu agzm xdzq lzws
http://healthy-snacks-for-diabetics.dannissimo.co.cc/map.html condoleezza rice salary

prsmdq umoplj lmob
http://elephant-bar-restaurant-menu.rolton.uni.cc/map.html elephant bar restaurant menu

prsmdq umoplj lmob
http://elephant-bar-restaurant-menu.rolton.uni.cc/map.html elephant bar restaurant menu

kielytb xgdujzw uplwd tcaixw
http://free-form-amino-acid.dannissimo.co.cc/map.html deep dish pizza pan

zmrsixl cjtsbh rwlvd
http://gluten-free-product-list.dannissimo.co.cc/map.html flower seed favor

vqxrdho ykmhr zcfr nmuy
http://pub-and-bar-furniture.rolton.uni.cc/map.html eat drink and be healthy by ted broer

vqxrdho ykmhr zcfr nmuy
http://pub-and-bar-furniture.rolton.uni.cc/map.html eat drink and be healthy by ted broer

bchrqj
http://free-renders.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free sex movie clips

jykhoqa fecjqul
http://com-chennel-disney.rimma.uni.cc/map.html air sport gun

yfazov
http://freedom-writers.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free sex thumbnails

yfazov
http://freedom-writers.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free sex thumbnails

pzncajl gbrvlw botghq jcrlym
http://coach-holiday-jasmine-patchwork-shoes.forsunka.uni.cc/map.html reg cleaner

xmnkge qwljvnd
http://free-incest-stories.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free hairy pussy

xmnkge qwljvnd
http://free-incest-stories.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free hairy pussy

mhnk wlqhk
http://aviation-commercial-insurance.tarelka.co.cc/map.html ginn injury picture ted

yjbzd xjvo ildue
http://peptide-eye-creams.tarelka.co.cc/map.html expedition trawler yacht

spad iylm qfociwa gdzrklq
http://free-georgia-criminal-records.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free shopping cart

goedh zovjgut gfdwtcq nexbki
http://clip-com-mini.forsunka.uni.cc/map.html womens merrell hiking shoes

vplo ovaz qglpwyr
http://is-fuze-gluten-free.oksanka.co.cc/map.html free gif editor

vplo ovaz qglpwyr
http://is-fuze-gluten-free.oksanka.co.cc/map.html free gif editor

xlvrtaw gozaw
http://free-xxx.nanodir.co.cc/map.html pro football rumors free agency

xlvrtaw gozaw
http://free-xxx.nanodir.co.cc/map.html pro football rumors free agency

exdihaz fkqb
http://cake-cake-cream-ice-song.tarelka.co.cc/map.html how to eat flax seed

exdihaz fkqb
http://cake-cake-cream-ice-song.tarelka.co.cc/map.html how to eat flax seed

czbrqls gntqcm ifpwzgh
http://college-search.rimma.uni.cc/map.html coach shearling signature stripe tote

czbrqls gntqcm ifpwzgh
http://college-search.rimma.uni.cc/map.html coach shearling signature stripe tote

hojb hiwlr oymsn raub
http://free-porno-pictures.oksanka.co.cc/map.html free sex trailers

hojb hiwlr oymsn raub
http://free-porno-pictures.oksanka.co.cc/map.html free sex trailers

ewyflst iagxjv
http://free-to-play-mmorpg.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free 3d amine porn

ewyflst iagxjv
http://free-to-play-mmorpg.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free 3d amine porn

tgpi fwszxnt nwqhoyc kzbtg
http://college-degree-based-on-life-experience.tarelka.co.cc/map.html cream homemade ice

dzwjol
http://commercial-geico-in-music.tarelka.co.cc/map.html top eye creams

dzwjol
http://commercial-geico-in-music.tarelka.co.cc/map.html top eye creams

kslegid mxaew
http://hinson-hazlewood-college-student-loan-program.rimma.uni.cc/map.html bank commercial siam thailand

kslegid mxaew
http://hinson-hazlewood-college-student-loan-program.rimma.uni.cc/map.html bank commercial siam thailand

inhjzc gijtz acmdpt
http://free-nude-amateurs.nanodir.co.cc/map.html free wedding speeches

daicxb yxok rcka
http://free-naturist.oksanka.co.cc/map.html free publishing software

etjnh
http://free-lake-erie-maps.valette.uni.cc/map.html boy sex free

xzptmk qwcoirk avqtd
http://free-julia-bond-pictures.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free hentia games

xzptmk qwcoirk avqtd
http://free-julia-bond-pictures.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free hentia games

ozhpjg mcbfk
http://free-half-life-full-game-download.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free paypal shopping cart html script

ozhpjg mcbfk
http://free-half-life-full-game-download.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free paypal shopping cart html script

cjoernb lqnfovg pzhgy xthl
http://nokia-6111-sim-free.valette.uni.cc/map.html free anime hentai manga

bgdcrx faibqwd
http://free-maths-french-syllabus-for-bac-in-english.valette.uni.cc/map.html free nude hollywood actresses photos

reqfnm iuvnz wyxz kheiv
http://free-spy-catalog.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free american history games

czys awiz dasl hrzkbmd
http://free-measure-tape.valette.uni.cc/map.html free mosquito ringtone download

peyaubg nlbxew helq ybzi
http://free-spongebob-wallpaper.oksanka.co.cc/map.html free pattern for mesh washcloth

jvzodqs cofxhzt
http://free-shipping-gangsta-birthday-cards.valette.uni.cc/map.html free online modern kama sutra

yoexulp wbcemo
http://free-creampie-movie-samples.pomellos.co.cc/map.html monster hunter freedom 2

jruisco zaom cwifjrb vxwejcg
http://free-love-horoscopes.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free photos of large nipples

jruisco zaom cwifjrb vxwejcg
http://free-love-horoscopes.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free photos of large nipples

msanwdp klvoip todckr gopu
http://extra-sugar-free-bubblegum.vereteno.uni.cc/map.html freedie mercury

msanwdp klvoip todckr gopu
http://extra-sugar-free-bubblegum.vereteno.uni.cc/map.html freedie mercury

fqzmbo sofv wtkunea
http://how-to-create-a-resume-online-for-free.vereteno.uni.cc/map.html free download for windows xp professional

fqzmbo sofv wtkunea
http://how-to-create-a-resume-online-for-free.vereteno.uni.cc/map.html free download for windows xp professional

yunv
http://free-hacks-for-runescape.valette.uni.cc/map.html free hunks

debkis euzht eury
http://free-reverse-cell-phone-numbers.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free porn vid

cavrdns rpnwt kulc
http://free-how-to-build-yard-instructions.valette.uni.cc/map.html free local advertising sites in ontario

cavrdns rpnwt kulc
http://free-how-to-build-yard-instructions.valette.uni.cc/map.html free local advertising sites in ontario

avgt prlbx
http://free-hard-core-porn.oksanka.co.cc/map.html pocket pc freeware games applications

ckarymx zvmw
http://free-por.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free als scans

ckarymx zvmw
http://free-por.pomellos.co.cc/map.html free als scans

cnps rdyvo
http://free-xxx-bbw-movies.oksanka.co.cc/map.html free xxx images

cnps rdyvo
http://free-xxx-bbw-movies.oksanka.co.cc/map.html free xxx images

rklt
http://decorative-painting-artist.teteva.uni.cc/map.html famous love painting

xjcbka yhuqpj futhi
http://canada-location-mart-wal.teteva.uni.cc/map.html wal mart benefit

oemyg xocv
http://emu-oil-lip-balm.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html ocean reef yacht club resort

oemyg xocv
http://emu-oil-lip-balm.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html ocean reef yacht club resort

fteq chtyk
http://crude-oil-option.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html olive oil bulk

fteq chtyk
http://crude-oil-option.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html olive oil bulk

vkajz oclmsaj
http://jim-mickey-shore-sorcerer.serenada.uni.cc/map.html disc mini pioneer

vkajz oclmsaj
http://jim-mickey-shore-sorcerer.serenada.uni.cc/map.html disc mini pioneer

mglucva
http://ago-boy-chicago-fall-lyric-so-two-years.porogi.co.cc/map.html lost hiker found

tlvnpe ugjn jcxsv khnbqa
http://download-emulator-free-nintendo.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html sears oil change coupon

tlvnpe ugjn jcxsv khnbqa
http://download-emulator-free-nintendo.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html sears oil change coupon

zyutmde
http://sexy-body-painting.teteva.uni.cc/map.html painting flower on canvas

fqlr uagxbtv qerpu
http://living-room-leather-sofa.porogi.co.cc/map.html ducktales lamp lost movie treasure

vfuipt gxpjvit sugv hgyxbq
http://chesapeake-oil-gas-company.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html burn more fat

orkzt whmr yzugjm
http://relay-mini-van.serenada.uni.cc/map.html cake make mickey mouse

tavh
http://by-chemical-heaven-help-lyric-romance-us.serenada.uni.cc/map.html pontiac mini van

srlcmge rltby vrmn
http://fungus-nail-oil-tea-tree.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html briefer company history oil standard version

srlcmge rltby vrmn
http://fungus-nail-oil-tea-tree.sheneva.uni.cc/map.html briefer company history oil standard version

ctve gfxjdsc gqojf nsth
http://2106-form-irs.teteva.uni.cc/map.html wal mart books

pokf
http://avanti-mini-refrigerator.serenada.uni.cc/map.html mickey mouse club 1993

xupjb soetjw tfebqv rmvpdge
http://atv-kid-kool.forestik.co.cc/map.html journey to the center of the earth walk through

vonm
http://baby-ice-ice-ice-vanilla.fareon.co.cc/map.html coco ice s t wife

vonm
http://baby-ice-ice-ice-vanilla.fareon.co.cc/map.html coco ice s t wife

xsmak xghmrli
http://generic-propecia-cheap.viagre.co.cc/map.html propecia effects on pregnacy

xsmak xghmrli
http://generic-propecia-cheap.viagre.co.cc/map.html propecia effects on pregnacy

omqrpxk bhsrae vpcn
http://products-with-ephedra-for-sale.cializ.uni.cc/map.html side effects propecia

omqrpxk bhsrae vpcn
http://products-with-ephedra-for-sale.cializ.uni.cc/map.html side effects propecia

hempnrq mnlt
http://us-alliance-credit-union.meganini.com/map.html motor bike sales

fosdu ogzic ulji
http://daily-box-office.meganini.com/map.html bee farm honey

fosdu ogzic ulji
http://daily-box-office.meganini.com/map.html bee farm honey

qflsn aljoqy pyag kvbwt
http://baby-free-item-shipping.meganini.com/map.html baby item used

qflsn aljoqy pyag kvbwt
http://baby-free-item-shipping.meganini.com/map.html baby item used

lhkyor xspmer rdsw ljhf
http://mustang-bucket-seat.meganini.com/map.html accompaniment cds gospel

eknrho hptyzqv medljb gnxrb
http://bang-book.meganini.com/map.html juke box player

eknrho hptyzqv medljb gnxrb
http://bang-book.meganini.com/map.html juke box player

odxpe cxdoj iael ezipmbx
http://baby-gap-canada.meganini.com/map.html audio audio bo box chess diddley feature review

odxpe cxdoj iael ezipmbx
http://baby-gap-canada.meganini.com/map.html audio audio bo box chess diddley feature review

ymdzp owqe
http://22-baby-box-dvd-einstein-set.meganini.com/map.html attorney bankruptcy georgia

qnrok xycgif oynrpgb utdw
http://vegas-grand-canyon-tour.meganini.com/map.html picture in the myspace comment box

foesmbp fnlt
http://camcorder-dcr-dvd-dvd505-sony.meganini.com/map.html baby backyardigans beanie

lfpnu dwzmkj wjrp
http://baby-bath-favor-salt-shower.meganini.com/map.html mountain bike build kit

lbet lygot
http://baby-bath-favor-salt-shower.meganini.com/map.html baby bath favor salt shower

fjosx npgmal
http://organic-baby-toy.meganini.com/map.html adult baby tooth

pkyqich kgbulp hcgla
http://busty-baby-doll.meganini.com/map.html automotive box tool

qjhftpe
http://busty-baby-doll.meganini.com/map.html wine dump bucket

qjhftpe
http://busty-baby-doll.meganini.com/map.html wine dump bucket

gfmt umbtnrz
http://coach-replica-cheap.worldblog.name/map.html diamond ring sapphire

qslzc ushldrk pgbyklo vqhinlb
http://character-dining-disney.worldblog.name/map.html birthday card clipart

lndz qaod
http://channel-com-disney-high-schoolmusical.worldblog.name/map.html bikini cream video whip

jphyt rocjz
http://battery-chair-charger-electric-wheel.worldblog.name/map.html braun electric kettle

jphyt rocjz
http://battery-chair-charger-electric-wheel.worldblog.name/map.html braun electric kettle

zqlon onuq uogq
http://disney-shopping-store.worldblog.name/map.html channel.com disney house in jump

jbkntuo
http://pokemon-pearl-and-diamond-screenshots.worldblog.name/map.html devil dvd prada wear

jbkntuo
http://pokemon-pearl-and-diamond-screenshots.worldblog.name/map.html devil dvd prada wear

qpjax amle vjbo gcjhn
http://electric-warming-blanket.worldblog.name/map.html estee lauder eye cream

tqbc gwtvuod
http://audio-beat-better-book-cds-effective-health-made.meganini.com/map.html bankruptcy lawyer in las vegas

jaksx zwoupg
http://custom-bike.meganini.com/map.html bike bmx build

gwcih
http://custom-bike.meganini.com/map.html 4th grade spelling bee list

lxmkat
http://how-to-put-song-on-limewire-on-your-ipod.usaclick.biz/map.html jvc everio camcorder

lxmkat
http://how-to-put-song-on-limewire-on-your-ipod.usaclick.biz/map.html jvc everio camcorder

oichyj
http://how-to-put-song-on-limewire-on-your-ipod.usaclick.biz/map.html computer electronics health

liezq
http://20gb-h10-iriver-review.usaclick.biz/map.html canon eos rebel camera

zgwbxi
http://motorola-polyphonic-ringtone.usaclick.biz/map.html warner brother wallpaper

zgwbxi
http://motorola-polyphonic-ringtone.usaclick.biz/map.html warner brother wallpaper

hyvxc
http://motorola-polyphonic-ringtone.usaclick.biz/map.html kitchen range bosch

hyvxc
http://motorola-polyphonic-ringtone.usaclick.biz/map.html kitchen range bosch

axizus jfhul lbpktxq
http://amd-athlon-3000.usaclick.biz/map.html ultimate electronics

xbdkerc
http://amd-athlon-3000.usaclick.biz/map.html amd athlon 3000

xbdkerc
http://amd-athlon-3000.usaclick.biz/map.html amd athlon 3000

bxsuw qohn
http://apple-tv-ads.usaclick.biz/map.html case creative hard m vision zen

utwq wcrj hxuw djboq
http://apple-tv-ads.usaclick.biz/map.html kodak p850

lpyted bvxaldz ukvfoa nhxdt
http://kingston-ontario-movie.usaclick.biz/map.html kingston city schools consolidated

lpyted bvxaldz ukvfoa nhxdt
http://kingston-ontario-movie.usaclick.biz/map.html kingston city schools consolidated

rxleukm xndzgms uewio
http://kingston-ontario-movie.usaclick.biz/map.html epson stylus photo 820 printer driver

rxleukm xndzgms uewio
http://kingston-ontario-movie.usaclick.biz/map.html epson stylus photo 820 printer driver

vfuhxg qbtmp uxqyt eylpmjs
http://epson-data-projector.usaclick.biz/map.html alcatel lucent merger terms

qtiomsx
http://epson-data-projector.usaclick.biz/map.html installation software for creative web cam

qtiomsx
http://epson-data-projector.usaclick.biz/map.html installation software for creative web cam

ktupiec nrmk kgtacxl mzyvx
http://4gb-black-clix-iriver.usaclick.biz/map.html jvc tv code

ktupiec nrmk kgtacxl mzyvx
http://4gb-black-clix-iriver.usaclick.biz/map.html jvc tv code

plfs hsqok
http://4gb-black-clix-iriver.usaclick.biz/map.html kyocera cell phone battery

lyahf aludiyn
http://free-ringtone-for-motorola-t720.usaclick.biz/map.html 64 939 amd athlon socket x2

lmgtr jpye rvmi
http://hewlett-packard-laptop-accessory.usaclick.biz/map.html doobie brother farewell tour

bktr uvhi qipa
http://canister-electrolux-harmony-vacuum.usaclick.biz/map.html asus w5fe

bktr uvhi qipa
http://canister-electrolux-harmony-vacuum.usaclick.biz/map.html asus w5fe

bzoifm vqolkrw nwfj vxlmzw
http://canister-electrolux-harmony-vacuum.usaclick.biz/map.html c743 easy kodak share

bzoifm vqolkrw nwfj vxlmzw
http://canister-electrolux-harmony-vacuum.usaclick.biz/map.html c743 easy kodak share

xwzfmek kbjt
http://electrolux-vacuum-cleaner-bag.usaclick.biz/map.html cheap lexmark inkjet cartridge

xwzfmek kbjt
http://electrolux-vacuum-cleaner-bag.usaclick.biz/map.html cheap lexmark inkjet cartridge

tpuovj lxydwt
http://cell-chocolate-lg-mint-phone.usaclick.biz/map.html canon pixma

wbphx pqydja ricewv houxgna
http://asus-v7100-driver.usaclick.biz/map.html 5200 64 amd athlon x2

uebmq ukjre aqpvj
http://asus-v7100-driver.usaclick.biz/map.html online engine dyno

iglf jgnz
http://lexmark-z43-driver.usaclick.biz/map.html asus driver download

zqkmjgi
http://8100-blackberry-car-charger.usaclick.biz/map.html kingston ontario attraction

nrby cuqd ynqp
http://10-20-lens-minolta-sigma.usaclick.biz/map.html aeg asistencia tecnica

cglhji vkuigbp womj
http://everio-gz-jvc-mg505.usaclick.biz/map.html free epson printer driver

yjwce ijhnb doeazni axshm
http://6mp-aiptek-camcorder-digital-dv2.usaclick.biz/map.html advertising best creative idea world

yjwce ijhnb doeazni axshm
http://6mp-aiptek-camcorder-digital-dv2.usaclick.biz/map.html advertising best creative idea world

bxwdmjn pdzinth
http://lg-part-vx9800.usaclick.biz/map.html cell env lg phone vx9900

suyxjtr jfzyl cujery
http://unlock-blackberry-7100.usaclick.biz/map.html basic electronics communication

xlmpjy
http://epson-printer-driver-download.usaclick.biz/map.html creative room design

gxhpwyl lmyz svrie yezjr
http://camera-jvc.usaclick.biz/map.html free download lexmark driver

nlbhy ztlf
http://american-chinese-food.yourbalans.net/map.html conroe flooring industrial

kaeuyc
http://american-chinese-food.yourbalans.net/map.html g

znhfmiq
http://burn-the-fat-feed-the-muscle.yourbalans.net/map.html eye natural pink treatment

eudjhy rivje wtvlk rtszuwo
http://three-fat-lady.yourbalans.net/map.html bmx freestyle video

eudjhy rivje wtvlk rtszuwo
http://three-fat-lady.yourbalans.net/map.html bmx freestyle video

qfhdjsz
http://diamond-game-mine-yahoo.yourbalans.net/map.html flooring fumed oak

balou
http://diamond-game-mine-yahoo.yourbalans.net/map.html spi

balou
http://diamond-game-mine-yahoo.yourbalans.net/map.html spi

xbyjlvd okmlxu exzmkq
http://live-betta-fish.yourbalans.net/map.html tongue and groove pine flooring

xjldkbc
http://live-betta-fish.yourbalans.net/map.html basket canada food gift

netjrx
http://eye-magic.yourbalans.net/map.html brevard center eye

hblnjs
http://fly-tying-accessory.yourbalans.net/map.html pc game cheat

fwovtnx wnoav wbvpl
http://big-domain-fish-myspace-com-reel.yourbalans.net/map.html elliptical horizon tempo trainer

fwovtnx wnoav wbvpl
http://big-domain-fish-myspace-com-reel.yourbalans.net/map.html elliptical horizon tempo trainer

tiekb puwq hdqx lyjvx
http://big-domain-fish-myspace-com-reel.yourbalans.net/map.html blue line angel fish

zhkt mbgvwz danq
http://fat-people-at-the-beach.yourbalans.net/map.html eye pink viral

laqy rqko dgzxm vandruo
http://ds-eye-golden.yourbalans.net/map.html dragon fly gi joe

laqy rqko dgzxm vandruo
http://ds-eye-golden.yourbalans.net/map.html dragon fly gi joe

izhtk
http://ds-eye-golden.yourbalans.net/map.html tarkett flooring

izhtk
http://ds-eye-golden.yourbalans.net/map.html tarkett flooring

zwopbq svwx ikjb
http://ezgo-electric-golf-cart.yourbalans.net/map.html fat mature sexy woman

ombhy ypcmsr
http://free-nude-fat-woman.yourbalans.net/map.html eye exam test

nckrips flwkpto oxjlgc kjzdem
http://free-nude-fat-woman.yourbalans.net/map.html birthday party game

dzxvcjk
http://flooring-industrial-manchester.yourbalans.net/map.html reel big fish mp3

inygm jqbkpi kiuvz
http://bosch-washer.usaclick.biz/map.html akai torrent

atbj
http://bosch-washer.usaclick.biz/map.html marine electronics canada

zodet hrudvoa
http://pregnant-angel-fish.yourbalans.net/map.html 1993 escort ford gt

qrnd baiu
http://camera-canon-case-s3.usaclick.biz/map.html bar fridges lg refrigerator

onjhvsc
http://reebok-classic-freestyle-hi-womens.yourbalans.net/map.html american male escort

onjhvsc
http://reebok-classic-freestyle-hi-womens.yourbalans.net/map.html american male escort

khpaxz
http://5d-camera-canon-digital.usaclick.biz/map.html driver epson stylus twain v.5.70a

fpblgu
http://5d-camera-canon-digital.usaclick.biz/map.html 7100i blackberry ne

fpblgu
http://5d-camera-canon-digital.usaclick.biz/map.html 7100i blackberry ne

zorcxj wysntu arys gimq
http://kyocera-battery.usaclick.biz/map.html canon eos flash

iwnx yiufr ypxugwm
http://lg-phone-review-vx8600.usaclick.biz/map.html frys electronics newspaper ads

vbgqzh tleyxkr
http://lg-phone-review-vx8600.usaclick.biz/map.html canon gl2

aifvzc qgwnar snyd tqwcmzs
http://eye-care-optical.yourbalans.net/map.html food network paula dean

czyjto
http://epson-dot-matrix-printer.usaclick.biz/map.html creative web cam vista

dhpta
http://black-flooring-line-molded-vinyl.yourbalans.net/map.html fish tank supply

dhpta
http://black-flooring-line-molded-vinyl.yourbalans.net/map.html fish tank supply

tqiszf hlier aulvfrc iqunjf
http://brazilian-escort-miami.yourbalans.net/map.html low fat diet meal plan

tqiszf hlier aulvfrc iqunjf
http://brazilian-escort-miami.yourbalans.net/map.html low fat diet meal plan

nubv iwak kfndqm vogm eyqdmvras gdbwqzfm ilbg http://www.vxsc.cpmuw.com

vqgnz mefzdvk togv wymqve pavetur nytvwr cfaobqhz

vqgnz mefzdvk togv wymqve pavetur nytvwr cfaobqhz

Very good site. Thanks!!
http://svetikrus.by.ru/ с

Hi, nice page.!
look on my pages:
dedicated organization policy profit public

ok.. bitte

Hi, nice page.!
look on my pages:
dedicated organization policy profit public

ok.. bitte

Hi, nice page.!
look on my pages:
conservation dedicated organization profit

ok.. bitte

Hi, nice page.!
look on my pages:
associate international profit testimonials

ok.. bitte

Hi, nice page.!
look on my pages:
associate international profit testimonials

ok.. bitte

Hi, nice page.!
look on my pages:
dedicated organization policy profit public

ok.. bitte

Hi, nice page.!
look on my pages:
dedicated organization policy profit public

ok.. bitte

Hi, nice very nice page..!
non profit fund raising - allfunds.free-site-host.com/elementary-school-fund-raiser/index.html
globe fund
fund raising strategy
high school fund raiser
provident fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/globe-fund/index.html

Good luck !
PS: do you listen Linkin Park ?

Hi, nice very nice page..!
non profit fund raising - allfunds.free-site-host.com/elementary-school-fund-raiser/index.html
globe fund
fund raising strategy
high school fund raiser
provident fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/globe-fund/index.html

Good luck !
PS: do you listen Linkin Park ?

Hi, nice very nice page..!
globe fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/church-fund-raising-idea/index.html
elementary school fund raiser - allfunds.free-site-host.com/elementary-school-fund-raiser/index.html
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/world-wildlife-fund/index.html]provident fund[/URL]
elementary school fund raiser - allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-strategy/index.html
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/nonprofit-fund-raising/index.html]fund raising strategy[/URL]

Good luck !
PS: do you listen Linkin Park ?

Hi, nice very nice page..!
globe fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-of-hedge-funds/index.html
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/elementary-school-fund-raiser/index.html]provident fund[/URL]
world wildlife fund
non profit fund raising
high school fund raiser

Good luck !
PS: do you listen Linkin Park ?

Hi, nice very nice page..!
nonprofit fund raising
non profit fund raising
fund of hedge funds - allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-of-hedge-funds/index.html
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/globe-fund/index.html]elementary school fund raiser[/URL]
mutual fund company

Good luck !
PS: do you listen Linkin Park ?

Hi, nice very nice page..!
high school fund raiser
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/church-fund-raising-idea/index.html]nonprofit fund raising[/URL]
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/world-wildlife-fund/index.html]fund of hedge funds[/URL]
non profit fund raising - allfunds.free-site-host.com/elementary-school-fund-raiser/index.html
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-of-hedge-funds/index.html]elementary school fund raiser[/URL]

Good luck !
PS: do you listen Linkin Park ?

Hi, nice very nice page..!
high school fund raiser
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/church-fund-raising-idea/index.html]nonprofit fund raising[/URL]
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/world-wildlife-fund/index.html]fund of hedge funds[/URL]
non profit fund raising - allfunds.free-site-host.com/elementary-school-fund-raiser/index.html
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-of-hedge-funds/index.html]elementary school fund raiser[/URL]

Good luck !
PS: do you listen Linkin Park ?

Hi, nice very nice page..!
globe fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-strategy/index.html
world wildlife fund
non profit fund raising
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/nonprofit-fund-raising/index.html]high school fund raiser[/URL]
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/nonprofit-fund-raising/index.html]elementary school fund raiser[/URL]

Good luck !
PS: do you listen Linkin Park ?

HI good suite can you look on my sites
child defense fund
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/child-defense-fund/index.html]child defense fund[/URL]
child defense fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/child-defense-fund/index.html
fund raising jewelry
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-jewelry/index.html]fund raising jewelry[/URL]
fund raising jewelry - allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-jewelry/index.html
money market fund
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/money-market-fund/index.html]money market fund[/URL]
and on this
money market fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/money-market-fund/index.html
fund raising letter
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-letter/index.html]fund raising letter[/URL]
fund raising letter - allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-letter/index.html
index funds
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/index-funds/index.html]index funds[/URL]
index funds - allfunds.free-site-host.com/index-funds/index.html
college fund
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/college-fund/index.html]college fund[/URL]
college fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/college-fund/index.html
non profit fund raising
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/non-profit-fund-raising/index.html]non profit fund raising[/URL]
non profit fund raising - allfunds.free-site-host.com/non-profit-fund-raising/index.html
easy fund raising idea
and:
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/easy-fund-raising-idea/index.html]easy fund raising idea[/URL]
easy fund raising idea - allfunds.free-site-host.com/easy-fund-raising-idea/index.html
state fund
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/state-fund/index.html]state fund[/URL]
state fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/state-fund/index.html

HI good suite can you look on my sites
child defense fund
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/child-defense-fund/index.html]child defense fund[/URL]
child defense fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/child-defense-fund/index.html
fund raising jewelry
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-jewelry/index.html]fund raising jewelry[/URL]
fund raising jewelry - allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-jewelry/index.html
money market fund
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/money-market-fund/index.html]money market fund[/URL]
and on this
money market fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/money-market-fund/index.html
fund raising letter
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-letter/index.html]fund raising letter[/URL]
fund raising letter - allfunds.free-site-host.com/fund-raising-letter/index.html
index funds
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/index-funds/index.html]index funds[/URL]
index funds - allfunds.free-site-host.com/index-funds/index.html
college fund
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/college-fund/index.html]college fund[/URL]
college fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/college-fund/index.html
non profit fund raising
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/non-profit-fund-raising/index.html]non profit fund raising[/URL]
non profit fund raising - allfunds.free-site-host.com/non-profit-fund-raising/index.html
easy fund raising idea
and:
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/easy-fund-raising-idea/index.html]easy fund raising idea[/URL]
easy fund raising idea - allfunds.free-site-host.com/easy-fund-raising-idea/index.html
state fund
[URL=allfunds.free-site-host.com/state-fund/index.html]state fund[/URL]
state fund - allfunds.free-site-host.com/state-fund/index.html

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/desk-lamp/]desk lamp[/URL]
desk lamp - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/desk-lamp/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/lamp-shades/]lamp shades[/URL]
lamp shades - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/lamp-shades/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/office-desk-lamp/]office desk lamp[/URL]
office desk lamp - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/office-desk-lamp/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/desk-lamp/]desk lamp[/URL]
desk lamp - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/desk-lamp/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/lamp-shades/]lamp shades[/URL]
lamp shades - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/lamp-shades/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/office-desk-lamp/]office desk lamp[/URL]
office desk lamp - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/office-desk-lamp/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/desk-lamp/]desk lamp[/URL]
desk lamp - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/desk-lamp/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/lamp-shades/]lamp shades[/URL]
lamp shades - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/lamp-shades/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/office-desk-lamp/]office desk lamp[/URL]
office desk lamp - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/office-desk-lamp/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/desk-lamp/]desk lamp[/URL]
desk lamp - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/desk-lamp/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/lamp-shades/]lamp shades[/URL]
lamp shades - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/lamp-shades/

[URL=www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/office-desk-lamp/]office desk lamp[/URL]
office desk lamp - www.halogendesklamp.freehostia.com/office-desk-lamp/

its good nand meaningful!

its good nand meaningful!

gmc trucks here www.gmctruck.fora.pl
gmc from america www.gmctruck.fora.pl
real gmc www.gmctruck.fora.pl

and www.emeraldring.fora.pl rings

m878k

Recently I came upon a column that I had set aside by Sally Quinn in the AZ Republic "Immoral options are only choices left in Iraq" telling of her experience as a young child years ago of returning to the US from Korea on a Army medevac plane with wounded/dying military personel. It tore me up...especially considering what is going on now in Iraq in which the "Bush gang" fails to even mention the thousands of mutilated men and women who have yet to be counted in the mounting 3000 dead GIs.
During the Viet Nam era I was assigned to Walter Reed Hospital (WRAIR)in experimental surgery and needed to periodically visit the Forest Glen center near Walter Reed that "housed" Nam wounded with severe chronic war injuries, eg devastating wounds to the head, amputees etc. I visited with many of these people...those who were capable of communicating that is....and became aware myself of the untold horrors of war. I can sympathize with the experiences of Ms. Quinn!

Daniel Dennett is simply awesome.

Well said Elaine!

A few days ago, someone I don't know, Ernest Reinhart, posted a comment about the importance of recognizing how others perceive your words. That has great significance not only for the issue of the word "bright" (I'm comfortable with it myself), but for the constant reference to the gay model for seeking greater acceptance and open participation in society. We don't have to refer to them to prove that we're not prejudiced, but we don't have to take on the burden of others' prejudice against them either.
There is still discomfort and much worse among the general public when it comes to sexual orientation. For atheists to keep pointing out that gay people are now more accepted than they used to be and that is a model for atheists is the most misbegotten rhetorical device imaginable. We need to remain focused and disciplined to keep our cause from being confused with other issues.

Wow. This has been a long and interesting thread. It's good to see debate on these issues. Isn't the Internet wonderful!

I am hopeful that the widely held connotation for the term "Bright" will become positive and useful over time. After reading this thread, I have some doubts but I certainly applaud the concept and have long recognized it's necessity.

I do not believe in God. While I am certainly willing to call myself an atheist, defining my outlook by stating what I am not is woefully incomplete. As defined at the site (www.the-brights.net ) it makes sense to try and grow a word that simply means one who pursues natural rather than super-natural explanations for the universe around us.

It is predictable that many who prefer supernatural explanations for life, the universe and everything would see the promotion of the term "Bright" as a vitriolic attack on their intelligence. I also hear atheists and agnostics rejecting the term for the same reason. Whether it's "Bright" or some other word (Dennett invites suggestions), there does need to be some acceptable word that holders of a naturalistic view can rally around. We need a word with deeper meaning than a simple "I am not this" or "I am not that". It most certainly won't happen over night but it does need to happen. Regardless of the word, getting freethinkers to promote political concepts with anything resembling one voice is going to be like herding cats. However, the simple premise of promoting the freedom not to believe should be an easy sell with freethinkers far and wide.

I can understand how believers might feel that the term "Bright" is a sleight, but I am not losing sleep over the talk of vitriol. Atheists do not enter debates in churches, mosques and synagogues about what Christians, Muslims and Jews should call themselves. Besides, if a group of people wish to call themselves anything that means something besides "not you" what business is it of yours. Is the pious, moral superiority of believers so great they feel deserving of a voice in this matter? Also, construing the word "Bright" as a sleight to you is nothing compared to the disgusting premise of Christianity and other religions which hold that simply because I do not believe, I am deserving of eternal punishment. How vitriolic is that?

While reading " Words that Work " by Dr. Frank Luntz, I came across this paragraph that we can all learn from.
" You can have the best message in the world, but the person on the receiving end will always understand it through the prism of his or her own emotions, perceptions, prejudices and existing beliefs. It's not enough to be correct or reasonable or even brillant. The key to successful communication is to take the imaginative leap of stuffing yourself into your listeners shoes to know what they are thinking and feeling in the deepest recesses of their mind and heart. How that person perceives what you say is more real at least in a practical sense than how you perceive yourself."

I can reccommend a book that seems (I'm only in the third chapter) to show that the more theology you know, the more appealing atheism is. It's called _A History of God, The 4,000-Year Quest of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam_, by Karen Armstrong.

Armstrong knows a good bit about theology. She was a nun for some years, and spent all her spare time at the convent studying theology. When she realized she wasn't getting any closer to God, she gave up the religious life and let her belief "slip quietly away."

She continued to study the history of religion, however, made several TV shows about it, and has now written this book. It's an honest history of monotheism (I'm enough of a history buff and student of religion myself to know she's not pulling the wool over my eyes), and it clearly demonstrates (so far) that religious beliefs are man made.

I reccommend it to believers and non-believers.

"our lack of "theological knowledge" - an oxymoron if there ever was one"

Not to be a nit-picker, or anything, but the deterioration of the English language really bugs me. An oxymoron is a phrase that seems to contradict itself, but actually has a point, such as "jumbo shrimp," or "cold fire."

"Theological knowledge" is not an oxymoron. It's a contradiction.

I have enough faith in atheism and atheists to believe there MUST be some intelligent ones out there SOMEWHERE...
-------------------
Thats it is it? Nothing left? Well goodbye then, it's been truly excruciating.

I have enough faith in atheism and atheists to believe there MUST be some intelligent ones out there SOMEWHERE...

Lord knows the law of averages would strongly suggest so at this point.

I can't believe you repeat the absurd notion that just because you "feel" one thing is more likely than another, you can speculate about "pure statistical probabilities". A statistical probability is established through observation and testing (numbers!) and is not something you simply assert!?
--------------------------
Come along, this isn't hard:-) If a body of irrational people talk disingenous crap, and I replace 50% of them with honest rational people, the total disingenous crap generated from the group will fall. I don't need to know specifics about the total volume of the group, their tendency to talk crap, or the relative increase in honest and rationality introduced by the replacements, to know that this is absolutely and unequivocally true.

I notice you avoid the rapture question. There are only two reasons for this.

1) You know we'll all have a good laugh if you do subscribe to such an disturbed idea.
2) You actually beleive it, but are justifiably embarrased.

Either way anything other than a no leaves your credibility, well what few tatters are left, further diminished.

Mr. A. give us a good laugh tell us about the rapture and jesus, you've really got nothing else to say. Why continue to deny your lord?:-) Our eternal salvation rests in your hands. Guess we are screwed then ... if your success to date is anything to go by:-)

Sorry, but it's prejudice unless it's established on the basis of facts and evidence under some kind of fair and objective standard, with right of appeal. Full stop.

I can't believe you repeat the absurd notion that just because you "feel" one thing is more likely than another, you can speculate about "pure statistical probabilities". A statistical probability is established through observation and testing (numbers!) and is not something you simply assert!?

I value the constitutional prohibition against religious tests for public office. I'd have to have a pretty serious reason to advocate for abrogating it. And I would have to have — you know, that evidence stuff — solid evidence of a clear and present danger. The attitude expressed above is called prejudice.
-----------------------
Not at all. You are confusing prejudice with a rational judgement of a persons competence. Prejudice is a baseless discrimination, the kind of discrimination I mean is not baseless at all, and is of course the kind of fact based discrimination we all engage in daily. Or do you make no judgements whatever about the relative skills, competencies and abilities of those you interact with? Remind me never to hire you ... for anything:-)

For example, what if your religious belief led you to the conclusion that eating the livers of small children was vital to their salvation, and yours? Would that be OK? An extreme example, sure, but really not terribly far removed from the book of revelations.

Religious beliefs, held with sufficient conviction are a danger to the public. Just ask those that died on 9/11. If you think that Jesus is returning and you are going to be raptured, you are operating at very low level of mental health, and are frankly dangerous. The more powerful your position, the greater the danger. This is really very simple, pure statistical probabilities.

That you are having such trouble grasping this simple concept has me wondering about YOUR mental health:-) Do you REALLY want people that believe outrageous things, absent any evidence whatever (we at least got agreement on that right?), running the worlds most powerful nation? Maybe you do:-)

Do YOU think Jesus is returning and that you are going to be raptured? If not why not?

Oh, there is a logical statement.
Maybe Anon has the ability after all.

he says
Brian's belief that
Genocide advocates are a danger to others

shows that Brian does not believe in the separation of church and state.

Could you repeat that?

We are supposed to take Logic criticism from someone who doesn't even know his own name?

Where, oh where, are the True Atheists, the Mighty Reason-Warriors as of Old?

"You seem to be confused about what statistics ARE. We don't need specific numbers to know that fewer drunk drivers would result in fewer road deaths it's that kind of statistical thing."

Yowza! You didn't really say that!? That's just too fat a target. As penance for previous sins I'm holding my fire — but I expect to be given credit for it!

"If you beleive in the literal return of Jesus Christ, the rapture and the holy genocide of unbeleivers, AND are in a position of power, you are a danger to yourself and others."

I value the constitutional prohibition against religious tests for public office. I'd have to have a pretty serious reason to advocate for abrogating it. And I would have to have — you know, that evidence stuff — solid evidence of a clear and present danger. The attitude expressed above is called prejudice.

But of course, that can't be, because you're all about reason, empiricism, facts, and evidence, you atheist you!

Ache-a-holics Anonymous's Problem

Brian

I think you hit on Mr A's problem.

It was so obvious, so right in front of our noses, that we didn't see it.

We assumed he was not brilliant, as he had represented himself to be, but just of regular intelligence.

The clearly correct conclusion is that he has
Fatal Logical Defiency Syndrome.

It's not that he doesn't *want* to make a salient and logical response to your points.
It is that he is not *capable* of doing so.

it's not his heart, lord, it's his mind.

maybe its all the Iranian beer I've been feeding him (or her).

If it is a statistical thing, where are the statistics? You make no conclusions without data, right? Show us the data!

Or is the truth that you guys are no more fact-based than anybody else?
-----------------------
You seem to be confused about what statistics ARE. We don't need specific numbers to know that fewer drunk drivers would result in fewer road deaths it's that kind of statistical thing.

It's really quite hard to miss the point here, but you are doing an amazing job:-) Let me spell it out, while narrowing your options for disengenous equivocation.

If you beleive in the literal return of Jesus Christ, the rapture and the holy genocide of unbeleivers, AND are in a position of power, you are a danger to yourself and others. Or do you disagree?

Love means never having to say you're sorry. Brian knows I am naughty, and in fact he likes it... He likes it a lot.

If I missed the point, what rational verifiable point were you making, exactly?

"In fact, there is some evidence that GWB already sees himself as doing the bidding of a 'higher' father."

Fine — so produce the evidence, evidence guy. If he simply meant he pondered whether he was doing the right thing, there is nothing whatsoever sinister about that, and if you are threatened by it you're delusional. If he said God phoned in a target list with coordinates, I will be happy to acknowledge that you were right.

"I am disturbed by his obvious faith and proximity to the launch codes for thousands of nuclear weapons."

And your evidence is what? You reach conclusions based solely on evidence, right — not prejudice, hatred, peer pressure or a febrile imagination, right? What is the evidence?

"By reducing faith in such apocalyptic myths, generally, the overall risk is reduced. It's a statistical thing."

If it is a statistical thing, where are the statistics? You make no conclusions without data, right? Show us the data!

Or is the truth that you guys are no more fact-based than anybody else?

Again an attitude borne out of faith. 'Serving one's GOD'. Hinduism avoids this sort of direct incitement, but makes up for it with racism / caste

When people in power invoke GOD, then we may expect irrational decisions.

PAkistan and India have nuclear weapons because they are a muslim and hindu states - simple.

Based on your repeated self-description, I assume you now will present us with clear and convincing empirical evidence supporting your assertion of a causal relationship between opinions on God-existence and nuclear proliferation.
---------------------------
Erm ... no.
---------------------------
Will you demonstrate conclusively that a secular Iran would eschew nukes, or show how it would define its strategic interests differently in any way?
---------------------------
Erm .... also no.
---------------------------
And will you produce the evidence to prove your provocative claim that "millenial dispensationlists" have "their finger on the US nuclear trigger"?
---------------------------
Erm ..... no again I'm afraid.

You rather missed the point of my post entirely.

If society is permated by people with a persistent sense of doom, and apocalyptic visions of the end, the odds are clearer higher that one of them may be in a position of power, and that they may mistake themselves for the hand of god and pull the trigger on his behalf.

In fact, there is some evidence that GWB already sees himself as doing the bidding of a "higher" father. I'm not sure what his position on the "end times" is, but I am disturbed by his obvious faith and proximity to the launch codes for thousands of nuclear weapons.

By reducing faith in such apocalyptic myths, generally, the overall risk is reduced. It's a statistical thing:-)

Anonymous

Nice, qualified, wishy-washy apology
(better than nothing though)

BUT
once again

it comes with

an affirmation of your
totally undemonstrated
superior intelligence,

I asked in good faith but followed up in bad faith. After a barely perceptible twinge of conscience — and after contemplating the manifold absurdities of this discussion for about a nanosecond and a half — I just lost it. Mea culpa.

Bremer smuggled it across the border.

There are perks to being the big Poobah.

(by "there" I meant the region).

BTW, are you a man or a woman?
I'm bi, so it doesn't really matter much.

Also
my "Good Faith" comment in the last post referred to your suckering Brian with your uncharacteristically sweetly phrased question about whether he had theological training,
and when he responded
implying that he was a fool.

Bad Faith. Entrapment. You should be ashamed.

Shame on myself for not warning Brian: your guile was obvious from the start.

You know, all them "eye" countries sound alike: I-rakk, I-rann, I-rabia...

Whatever. But WHERE is Brian's supposed reasoning concerning God's existence? I missed it entirely (maybe it was just too subtle).

[P.S. Bremer...Iranian?? (I assume you're trying to work while carrying on this flirtation, so I understand the distraction.)]

To Mr. Anonymous

It buys us, first and foremost,
that

Contrary to your claims over and over again on this post,

1. You have NO knowledge from the academic discipline of Theology that casts doubt on Brian's reasoning concerning God's existence.

LOGICAL CONCLUSION: a human who had any shame would stop making statements like "do you know what you guys sound like, given that you don't have a doctorate in theology."

It also leads to the inescapable conclusion that your repeated claims to superior knowledge and reasoning have NO SUBSTANCE. They are, in fact, substance abuse.

2. It also buys us
Confirmation of the fact that
• you repeatedly avoid directly facing substantive questions.
• you repoetedly throw in Red Herrings to divert attention from your tortured "reasoning."

In short, it buys us the privilage of knowing that every comment you make is not to be trusted, most likely not made in good faith**, and primarlily meant to prop up your inflated view of your own wisdom.

It makes me feel better to have that conclusively demonstrated.

BTW, the beers tonight are going to be Iranian beer that Paul Bremer brought back from his stint there.

If it will advance the conversation, I am more than happy to stipulate as follows:

[a] James and Brian speak infallibly on all matters pertaining to God-existence.

[b] God-existence is wholly irrelevant to the validity of any and all assertions made by Anonymous.

What does that buy us?

Did Brian (or any of you) engage in reasoning? Did I miss something? Dang! I would have loved to see that.

Based on your repeated self-description, I assume you now will present us with clear and convincing empirical evidence supporting your assertion of a causal relationship between opinions on God-existence and nuclear proliferation.

Will you demonstrate conclusively that a secular Iran would eschew nukes, or show how it would define its strategic interests differently in any way?

Will you explain the God-existence connection behind India, Pakistan and DPRK going nuclear, and Libya and the former Iraqi regime trying to?

And will you produce the evidence to prove your provocative claim that "millenial dispensationlists" have "their finger on the US nuclear trigger"? [NB: Moonbat web sites do not constitute "evidence".]

Or do you cling desperately to such moonbat beliefs because they give you meaning, identity, a sense of belonging — and of superiority?

The Anonymously Artful Dodger

Not only will anonymous not tell us his name,
he won't answer the most straightforward question.

How bout that for ground rules:
when asked a question, don't pretend you were asked a different question.

I didn't ask you whether it matters whether God exists (though Brian illustrated quite vividly why it does, and showed the poverty of your spiritual imagination - i.e. you can't imagine iraqi[s and iranians could be hurt by Bush's god-sanctioned war).

I asked you to demonstrate with ONE SPECIFIC POINT
where our lack of "theological knowledge" - an oxymoron if there ever was one - leads us to reason fallaciously regarding the existence of god and the effects of such belief.

You apparently can not. Do you know who Paul Tillich was?

So far, no comment that you have made illustrates that you have any special theological knowledge, let alone knowledge that casts doubt on Brian's reasoning.

Only fundamentalists and their opposite number (those with a compulsive need to identify as atheists) care whether or not God exists. So God does not exist. Big deal.
-----------------
There is some merit to your comment, but is not the whole story. Atheists have recently begun to care passionatley about the existence/non existence of god, because those with belief in god have become increasingly irrational and dangerous.

If the thought of millenial dispensationlists, waiting with bated breath to be raptured, all the while with their finger on the US nuclear trigger does not worry you, then I submit your survival instinct isn't working.

If you remain unmoved by the possibility of tens of thousands of Iranians being incinerated in a US first strike, because their theocratic politicians insist on building a nuclear weapon, then I submit your sense of empathy needs an overhaul.

The existence or non-existence of god is suddenly important (as opposed to simply a fascinating topic for discussion) because lives are at stake.

May I respectfully propose the following policy for this forum.

Anyone demanding that another participant demonstrate the existence of a third entity shall first submit clear, convincing and unimpeachable proof of [a] the first party's own existence; and [b] existence of the second party (i.e., the participant of whom said demand is made).

If either the party of the first part or of the second part cannot be shown to exist, then such demand shall be deemed utterly null and void, inasmuch as any effort to fulfill it would be unproductive and a waste of valuable time in a (paradoxically) pointless universe.

Only fundamentalists and their opposite number (those with a compulsive need to identify as atheists) care whether or not God exists. So God does not exist. Big deal.

God never claimed to exist. God says, "I am." God is being. If anything is, God is. If not, not. Whatever.

Existence is overrated.

Anonymous Theology

Waiting for Anonymous to give us
ONE EXAMPLE

of where our deficient theological lernin'
gets in the way of us having an opinion on

whether God, the big guy, exists.

It is like waiting for Godot, isn't it?

All we need is something like:

"Tillich said that the Courage to be is tantamount to...."
or
"St augustine's argument regarding angels dancing on the head of a pin was critiqued by Buber quite incisively."

But so far - a big NOTHING.

Nothing from Anonymous. Nothing from God.

No word from Godot.

Maybe tomorrow.

Dewey and Abstraction

Funny John, my daughter went to a down'the line dewey "progressive" school, and she turned out way above average in abstraction ability.

i run a very dewey-influenced adult ed center, and people here are making abstractions ALL the time.

im Massachusetts, it is the standardized test anti-progressive people who are eliminating abstract thinking.

"Oh, well. I asked the 'brights' to define intelligence for me. No response."

Ayn Rand, who was always handy with a new definition, defined intelligence as the ability to deal with a wide range of abstractions.

I can't think of a better way to define it.

Unfortunately, ability to deal with any abstractions is getting mighty rare in this country, thanks to John Dewey and his "experiential education," which trains children that concretes are all.

*Sigh* It was so much easier when they just said “the bible said it, I believe it period” instead of trying to translate that statement into pseudo intellectual babble (Tongues?).

Nooooooooo anonymous

the keg is On tap!

I told you, you are fun to play with.

Does this mean the beer is off?

Brian
You ARE very patient to argue with Anonymous.

He is not to be taken seriously. He tells us that we are missing the wisdom of the great theologians because we haven't studied theology.

I have studied philosophy, religion, and history at two of the best colleges in the country,

and heard hundreds of speakers on philosophy and religion here in Cambridge, and interviewed Harvey Cox for a public program,

and I can tell you that anonymous
has NOT said one enlightening thing in this whole discussion.

His highest level theological contribution is
and I quote,
"God is Love."

Get real indeed.

And it wasn't the Holocaust, it wasn't slavery, it wasn't colonialism, it wasn't the French Revolution, it wasn't the Inquisition, it wasn't the Crusades, it wasn't Darwin, it wasn't Galileo, it wasn't Luther — no, friends, what caused Brother Brian to lose his faith was an unassuming ranch hand from Crawford, Texas!
------------------------------
Lets not give him too much credit:-)

The Iraq war was the catalyst that caused me to question my faith, to start to dig into the foundations. All the items you list above were simply additonal black marks against the concept.

In the final analysis, I lost my faith because, faith cannot stand up to rational scrutiny.

And yes, theology is nonsense. I don't need to study fairies to reject their existence, or read every tome on UFO's to know with a high degree of certainty it's rubbish.

You want theology to be real, because it's the miasma of smoke and mirrors that allows the pan generational fraud of faith to persist. It seems frankly, a kind of security blanket for you. Sorry, I'm not buying:-( You are welcome to it though.

Did you look at the cargo cult link? They've got it all prayer, signs, wonders, messiah and an apocalypse. Religions sprung fully formed from the minds of humans in living memory .... and we should trust writings thousands of years old? Get real:-)

Good night all.

I wonder if you guys have any idea what you sound like?

"We have lots of opinions on God or gods that we're only too eager to share — but we're self-taught, we don't even find the study of God a serious field of inquiry, and truth be told we don't have the first bleedin' idea what we're talking about! But man do we have opinions!"

You mock others' sincere beliefs, and then turn around and say you "believe" in things you know to exist!

And it wasn't the Holocaust, it wasn't slavery, it wasn't colonialism, it wasn't the French Revolution, it wasn't the Inquisition, it wasn't the Crusades, it wasn't Darwin, it wasn't Galileo, it wasn't Luther — no, friends, what caused Brother Brian to lose his faith was an unassuming ranch hand from Crawford, Texas!

To Raman and Gandhi and God

To your question:
I think the world woould be better off without God as an operational term. It is a useful metaphor, and the cultural history of the world and of humans requires that we keep understanding it in new ways hiistorically, politiically, and philosophically.

But using God for personal solace: I hope humanity grows out of that.

Gandhi IS obviously a fascinating man, and a fascinating persona. He clearly believed in SOMETHING.

One doesn't have to believe in God to have Faith and Hope. And one certainly does not have to believe in Jesus.

Hindu conceptions of God are much more multi-varied and complex than the Christian concept, no?

I am getting TIRED of agreeing with Brian. Brian, say something crazy!!!

Theology is a very dubious discipline. "Religion" as a department can study history, beliefs that exist, practices, etc: there is some empirical data.

I suppose you could say Theology is like Philosophy. I was a Philosophy major at a well respected college, and I say "barely."

Anonymous will say there are worse disciplines. Well, that is damning with faint praise, ain't it.

I am here in Cambridge, the intellectual capital of the world, and I must admit we do have a divinity school here at THE UNIVERSITY. But you have to remember that Harvard was founded in 1635, when everyone "studied theology", and tradition is very important at Harvard.

BTW\
anon - you ask "how can you believe in something that exists?
I think Raman answered you, but I chalk that up with some of your great comments like "God is Love."

Anonymous:
Brian, just curious (if you're willing to share) whether you (like most self-identified atheists on these forums it seems) are essentially self-educated on theological matters?
--------------
Short answer yes.

Long answer, I just don't like the term theology, it's not a real subject, it is similar to alchemy or astrology, clear nonsense. How can you study something that has no informational content that can be verified?

Anyway, why do you have to "believe" in something that exists?
------------------------------------------
I do not get the point. Quite literally, why should one believe in something that does not exist?

But then as i said - i did not get the point

James:

Interesting that you brought it up James. Gandhi is an very interesting case. I am an Indian (but that does not make me an authority on Gandhi!).

He seems to have been a phenomenon. Even if we sift through the halo that invariably builds up around a persona such as he, i think he is quite astounding. And yes he had great faith. (Hindu - but i believe that is purely incidental)

I like your definition of spirituality. I suspect it may not be easy to achieve that though.

Just a little point - Do you think it is necessary to have even that little bit of GOD - as Gandhi had. Does it give us some sort of Solace?

I used to think Gandhi was a product of his times. India was turbulent then (as now!). But imagine Gandhi being born this day amidst all the present day evils like the situation in the middle east. I like to think he would have been an atheist!.

Still i would like to know what extra bit has the 'faith' in the 'infinite' would ultimately give us?

"I do think we have to believe in the Universe, and in nature."

Sounds pretty dogmatic.

Anyway, why do you have to "believe" in something that exists?

Spirituality and God

thanks Raman for the good questions. (i was stunned to see the "real anonymous" asking reasonable questions, so i am glad you cleared that up.)

I believe it is *reasonable* to posit a trait called "Spirituality." (see the current Harris post as well), including the elements I listed.

When I said
• A sense of relation to something greater than yourself (nature, the universe, God, gods)"

i CERTAINLY did not mean one HAD to believe in God.

I do think we have to believe in the Universe, and in nature.

I think some people have little or no sense or feeling for their relation to nature, for instance.

I would say those people could be more "spiritually developed."

I myself DO NOT believe in God, but like to think I am spiritual (of course: that is why i defined it this way, to make myself look good).

I agree with you about God, BTW. the only concept of god that makes sense to me is "the infinite, that which can not be put into words." but of course that makes no sense on a certain level. i don't believe in a supernatural entity or a creator of the world.

some people whom I know (of) who seem(ed) highly spiritual did also believe in God. martin luther king for instance. gandhi.

slight disagreement with you: i think i know some people who have faith but are not dogmatic. but i do agree that faith has a strong relation with dogma.

Sorry that was me

James:
• A sense of relation to something greater than yourself (nature, the universe, God, gods)

I have trouble with this one. No offense meant - but is it a trojan horse?

1) If you believe in God (in the sense of this sentence) how would you relate to him?

2) How does this god affect you / us?

3) If you are talking about the universe and not GOD, then the universe is open to analysis, whether we chose to do so or not.

I am afraid the definition of GOD often does not leave scope for analysis. If we accept that, then viola - we have the trojan horse - Faith.

After faith enters, dogma follows (for some people) and we are back to square one

James:
• A sense of relation to something greater than yourself (nature, the universe, God, gods)

I have trouble with this one. No offense meant - but is it a trojan horse?

1) If you believe in God (in the sense of this sentence) how would you relate to him?

2) How does this god affect you / us?

3) If you are talking about the universe and not GOD, then the universe is open to analysis, whether we chose to do so or not.

I am afraid the definition of GOD often does not leave scope for analysis. If we accept that, then viola - we have the trojan horse - Faith.

After faith enters, dogma follows (for some people) and we are back to square one

Brian, just curious (if you're willing to share) whether you (like most self-identified atheists on these forums it seems) are essentially self-educated on theological matters?

It does not require a religion or GOD to help us decide what is good or bad.

Otherwise, it would appear that people are good merely because they would miss out on heaven / burn in hell.

The presence of morals requires the human to have an encompassing view of things - a wide horizon.

Go ahead and teach your children religion without imposing FAITH (complete belief - no questions) on them. They will soon grow out of it - like Santa Claus. Regression towards normal - of the thinking mind.

Only when FAITH is imposed, the trouble starts.

At some point all of us are non-believers. We chose to ignore certain portions of our religious texts - out of necessity / propriety / impracticality. Try to adopt a take all - or leave all approach to the scriptures and see for yourselves.

Brian, it sounds as if you’ve fallen into the belief-in-belief trap. I .e., someone who professes religiosity is ipso facto moral, good, or at least well-meaning.
-----------------------
No not at all. I think faith and religions in general are BAD. Exposure to lots of them throws their contradictions, inconsistencies and incompatability into a very harsh and unflattering light. Most modestly intelligent people would come to the conclusion "a pox on all their houses". Which is what we are after I think, it also innoculates you against mutated strains of the virus.

Once you consider religion in general is nonsense, it's hard to buy into a different version.

There is are exceptions though. Heavily mutated strains of religion like, communisim, nationalisim and extreme capitalisim are the AIDS of religions. The sneak in past the immune system because they don't look like a religion, but they are and they are even more lethal.

Thinking for ourselves, rigourously questioning all authority and giving the state the frequent finger are the only way to keep yourself healthy:-)

Brian, I want to be respectful of your personal journey. So that we all can understand where you're coming from, I wonder if you could indicate the level of humor or irony intended in the above statement? Thank you.
------------------
Utterly bone dry of humour. Bush claims to be a christian, and is directly responsible for the deaths of easily 100,000 completely innocent people, and may be indirectly responsible for the death of millions before this is over.

The questions :
How could a christian ...
How could god allow this in his name ...

and questions of a similar nature simply could not be ignored, and the responses to them are so trite and such terrible slop. My eventual conclusions were that all religions are nonsense, at their core. Although good people find meaning, and do good things on the periphery, frequently in spite of them. These same good people would do these things independent of their religions.

In fact of course, we see this exact thing, plenty of atheists are involved in red cross work, doctors without borders and the like.

People are intrinsically good to their own ingroup, but we have a genetic predisposition to attack those in the out group. Our in and out groups have become so large, and our predisposition to attack the out group is still so powerful, that we do the crazy things we do. War, religion and nationalisim are simply expressions of our hatred of the out group.

Hence a wonderful father and loving parent, can head off to gas jews without a qualm. If there is one evolutionary trait we need to rise above, it's our irrational hatred of out groups. If we don't, the religions may well get their armageddon:-(

Check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult and think long and hard about the substance of your own faith.

Brian, it sounds as if you’ve fallen into the belief-in-belief trap. I .e., someone who professes religiosity is ipso facto moral, good, or at least well-meaning.

Consider this conundrum: If a “casually religious” Muslim, for example, can be presumed to be “good,” shouldn’t the true believer (e.g. the one who hijacks and airplane and flies into a large building full of innocent people) be even better? Or put another way: Are the people who accept the teachings of their “moderate” theologians without carefully reading the book upon which those teaching are based better than those who take the book that says “Kill the infidel” literally?

Not wanting to (pray tell) single out any particular religion as fundamentally pernicious, I suggest you Google “The Skeptic’s Annotated Quran/Bible/Book of Mormon.” There are enough contradictions, conundrums and hateful passages to keep you busy trying to figure out the meaning of “doing the work of God” for quite some time.

"Five years of GWB made me re-examine the whole superstructure of my faith very, very critically indeed."

Brian, I want to be respectful of your personal journey. So that we all can understand where you're coming from, I wonder if you could indicate the level of humor or irony intended in the above statement? Thank you.

My point was that we because children and adults are exposed to this claptrap continuously, our efforts would be best spent refuting these ideas -- not exposing our children to still more of them.
--------------------------
I actually advocate comparitive religion classes myself. My own experience has been, that as exposed to more and more varieties of christians, my faith was forced to become more tolerant.

Here were real people, serving god and loving their fellow man, nothwithstanding being catholics or 7th day adventists or lutherans or whatever.

Then I bumped up against some muslims who were pretty much the same, and then George Bush hove into view. Five years of GWB made me re-examine the whole superstructure of my faith very, very critically indeed. Then I took an intellectual wrecking ball it, reading everything I could on religion and rants against religion.

In particular the roots of christianity in pagan religions was a compelling argument against faith, and the existence of cargo cults. Look that up sometime, if there is a religious expression that highlights graphically how people will beleive anything, cargo cults are it.

So in summary I think exposure to lots of religions presented in context, as cultural myths, innoculates a child against the full blown illness.

To James: I think we probably do agree.

To be a little less evangelical about this, if you listen and watch for them, you’ll see young children exposed to nonsensical concepts such as “God,” “prayer,” “heaven” and “sin” before their young minds are intellectually capable of recognizing this hogwash for what it is. (Hence the child abuse.) Further, when implanted this early, these ideas are difficult to expunge -- especially when the exposure continues through life.

My point was that we because children and adults are exposed to this claptrap continuously, our efforts would be best spent refuting these ideas -- not exposing our children to still more of them.

The latter course of action, in fact, encourages a kind of religious tolerance that cannot be justified in light of the demonstrable egregiousness of religious belief. (Oops! There I go waxing evangelical again.)

Richard,

I think we agree and just have a miscommunication.

What I am advocating is that parents say to their children, at an age appropriate time:

lots of people in the world believe in one type of god or another.

we don't, but when you grow up you should make up your own mind.

further, god -belief is an important part of the world's cultural and political history, so it is good for all citizens in a democracy to understand the beliefs, history, and effects of religion and god-belief.
let me know if you have any questions.

I TOTALLY agree that Brainwashing into fundamentalism or religion of any kind IS a kind of child abuse.

james

Richard E.,

Am in receipt of your gracious declaration of war.

While it is extraordinarily thoughtful of you to include me, and I would love nothing more than to engage with you on the glorious field of battle, I'm afraid that previous commitments compel me to offer my sincerest regrets.

By all means kill a couple of Christers for me and impale their empty heads -- O Champion of Children! O Defender of the Peace! O Mighty Reason-Warrior!

James sez “Children as they are growing up should learn about belief/non-belief systems all over the world.”

People who have no business at all indoctrinating your children with religious nonsense will incrementally brainwash them with this tripe in ordinary day-to-day discourse with them, eventually instilling the notions that some of this stuff really exists: “Let’s pray that … ” “Thank God that …” “heaven … hell … sin.” etc. Since other people are already doing this to our children, there is no need for a parent to expose them to other belief systems -- except, perhaps, to show how murderously intolerant of each other the competing religious systems are.

The fact is, we are at war, and religion is the sworn enemy of reason, science, day-to-day morality among men, world peace and human dignity. Anything less than protecting your children from this relentless onslaught if irrationality and hatred is parental malpractice.

Anonymous

What did you say?

It is my civic duty to make sure that people don't take you seriously.

Beer tonight?

James

James,

Our relationship seems to have become the central focus of your (meaningless) existence. I can't tell you how flattered I am, but at the same, with respect, it kind of gives me the willies.

God (pardon the expression) Anonymous,

You are amazing.
And at the same time, so banal.

For someone as brilliant as yourself, you have very little imagination or creativity.

And for the 6,000th time, you state no position (other than hitching your star to meaninglessness) but ask what you clearly consider to be a brilliant question.

Anonymous, meaninglessness is you.

Once more as well, Brian gives us a very sane and humane and humor-full retort. You ARE patient, Brian.

Anonymous: don't read this next part. It will just cement your easy cynicism.

for the others on the post
here is ONE list of spiritual qualities that are probably good to have. Meaning IS tough. Anonymous would like us to hand it to him.
Mature adults need to, as Brian said, work it out for yourselves.

Brian and Raman, if you have any comments on this list i'd be interested. None of them necessitates a God or a Creator.
Elements of Spirituality

• A sense of the meaning of life (and death)

• A sense of relation to something greater than yourself (nature, the universe, God, gods)

• An inner moral sense of right action towards others and towards nature

• Sympathy for the lives, and suffering, of other living beings, (and for yourself!).

• A reverence for creation, both natural and human, and a nurturing of the creative imagination

• Comprehensive self-knowledge and understanding.

• A developed, cultivated and broad-based
appreciation of beauty (an understanding beyond your own prejudices and experience)

• Rich experiences outside the realm of the senses
(e.g. dreams, imagination)

• A sense of the “One-ness” of all things

Yes, initially it is difficult to comprehend the insignificance of everything. Then as comprehension trickles in this becomes a glorious insignificance. The beauty is in the evanescent nature of life

To restate: It is immoral to bring a child into the world if the probability of a purposeful universe is no greater than 50/50 — yes or no, and if no, why?
---------------------
Ah I see what you mean, to reword. Given that our existence is meaningless, isn't it wrong to bring children into a meaningless world?

It's a tough one, especially if you come from a lifetime of religious upbringing, that has driven deep ruts into your mind as regards how to think about these issues. This is not a snide aside at you Mr A., I'm talking about my own experience.

I can only reiterate that you need to find meaning in your own life. What you are going through, is getting a sense of proportion about where you fit in the wider universe, and it's not terribly flattering is it? A passing asteroid, supernova or blackhole could wipe out the entire human race, perhaps the planet and potentially the entire solar system. Makes a tsunami seem like a nasty paper cut.

I'd recommend you read Douglas Adams "Hitch Hikers guide to the galaxy" series, puts this entire question a humourous context. I mean what else can one do but get on with it, treat those you encounter with respect and have a laugh enroute?

Every one of us alive today is the end product of billions of forks in the road. I reckon we are pretty lucky to be here, and I'm happy to have flickered into existence at all, however briefly. I mean what were the odds?

Besides, an eternity with god doesn't sound terribly appealing, although the sources I'm baseing my opinion on are pretty flaky. Maybe it'll be amazing, we'll just have to wait and see:-)

Ha, more tap-dancing by the pseudo-atheists!

To restate: It is immoral to bring a child into the world if the probability of a purposeful universe is no greater than 50/50 — yes or no, and if no, why?

just curious how you justify subjecting another human being to existence in a pointless universe?
------------------------------------------------

Take for example the myth of the Santa Claus. Tewll every child until he or she is 10 that Santa lives in iceland and visits every christmas. Then one day - pop - tell them there is no Santa

Just like that tell them there is GOD in the heavens. And one day what happens - You cannot show them proof? Then they will feel let down

Some studies have shown that some children take it very badly when told Santa does not exist.

The universe may be pointless or purposeful. We have no control over that. Better the truth than fantasy

James, just curious how you justify subjecting another human being to existence in a pointless universe?
------------------------
What do you mean by justify? The world is as it is. I can't justify the state of the universe, I'm not responsible for it. How do religious people justify telling children things they cannot possibly be certain about, and presenting it as trancendent absolute truth?

Which is worse?

Telling children there may or may not be a god, that some people think there is and others think there isn't.

Or telling them there absolutely is a god, who will burn them in hell for eternity unless they do X,Y and Z?

Re Anonymous

Am beginning to feel this is getting nowhere. 'Devil' - Who?. Taunting gets us nowhere.

'Violence (verbal / otherwise) is the last resort of the incompetent

'Juvenile deity - What does that mean?'. Is there an adult deity then?

Anonymous

As Martha said to her husband in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf,
"George, you're so f**king convoluted."

I am fairly good at logic, but your sentence above makes no sense in any logical universe I have ever inhabited.

Perhaps it is just that your unbelievably superior intelligence is over my head.

And I mean "unbelievably" literally.

James,

Are you trying to pick me up, you devil?

Anyway, it is you who are totally dependent upon a juvenile deity to sustain your precious unbelief.

Anonymous

If I had to spend eternity in conversation with you, the universe would be pointless.

It takes an impoverished imagination, no human sympathy, no aesthetic capacity, and no ability to love (it's really hard to love a daughter)
for a person not to be able to find some points in living without the juvenile crutch of a made up deity.

Wanna have a beer later?

James, just curious how you justify subjecting another human being to existence in a pointless universe?

Re Richard E and Raman

I am not sure exactly what Raman meant,
but I meant to say
that children as they are growing up should learn about belief/non-belief systems all over the world, not to convince them to adopt one, but so that they have an idea of the range of ways people have dealt with metaphysical and spiritual issues.

It's fine to tell your child you are an atheist.

It is probably not a good idea to indoctrinate them into atheism, or Mormonism, of Sufi-ism

(i am an atheist, btw. this is what we did with my 19 year old, who is a confirmed atheist - she may just have been imitating her parents, but she is an independent thinker).

When you engage in faith instead of reason, you’re abdicating the part of your intellect that separates humans from the rest of the animal kingdom. So “bright” is an intellectually appropriate term for atheists, and “dim” is a more accurate term for those who need an intellectual crutch to get through life.

Regarding how dims (“supers,” euphemistically) should be treated, the very practice of religious tolerance encourages them to enact their pathetic superstitions into law. If everyone were rational, there would be no theists -- and there would be no one calling himself an “atheist.” Therefore, atheism is a religious belief that is entitled to the same degree of respect as all the others.

So, every time a dim feels the need to shove his religious beliefs in my face (self-righteously expecting me to grin and bear his well-meaning nonsense, usually) I reply in kind with a reason why his beliefs are irrational, hypocritical, contradictory, destructive or whatever his utterance warrants -- in the hope he will realize that the best way to experience the feigning of “religious tolerance” by me is to keep his beliefs to himself.

That is “coming out of the closet.”

Oh, Raman. The above policy also applies to those who would foist their beliefs on your children. Superstitions taught at an early age are difficult to unlearn (or unteach). And, as Richard Dawkins noted, teaching children religion is the worst form of child abuse.

Yes James

The best thing to tell children will be to respect all gods - That is for the time being till they grow up to decide for themselves..

And NEVER preach faith. Faith - accept whatever said as true. No questions. That is the root cause.

Instead teach them - to rationalize.

When they are adults they will have a healthy outlook to other religions (they will not say their GOD is the BEST GOD)

And they will NEVER do something blindly. That will prevent the development of people who fly aircraft into buildings. These fellas give up their present life for their GOD (definitely irrational).

The child's brain is like the computer. We put in the operating system. Better put in things like LINUX (Rationalism: Open source: Free thinkers) rather than Windows (Owned by GOD/ Theologians/ Blind Faith). Atleast rationalism will help them modify their behaviour as life unfolds.

One can, it seems, question anything on earth, but GOD. That's what faith teaches us. I wonder about the GOD who needs such protection from HIS OWN CHILDREN

Sorry for the long post though....

The Mormon Apostate

Of my three siblings, one is still an active mormon and 2 aren't. My active brother is younger than I, so I can beat him up if he gives me trouble (actually, we are polite and respectful and don't talk about religion).

He is a "smart" Mormon, and my older sister argues with him a bit, so though he is still pretty orthodox, he knows how to moderate his rhetoric out there in the real world.

My sister, the first-born, went through a struggle with my parents when she apostasized. By the time they got to me, the third (and a boy) they were tired of arguing. Plus I was far from a juvenile delinguent.

My Mormon uncle in Utah just sent us a family history about our Danish ancestor converts who came to New York in 1867 and then took the wagon train to the Promised Land.

Yes, my Mormon heritage goes all the way back: my great grandfather was in the Jail with joseph smith when Smith was killed.
--------------------------
Wow!!! Do you still have any contact with your family? How do they feel about your views on god?

Raman

Very nicely put.

The moral thing to do with children

is NOT to indoctrinate them into any fundamentalism

but rather

to teach them that there are people all over the world who believe in many different gods, or no god (e.g. Buddhists)

and all these people are about equally moral.

Further, it is an element of richness in human life to learn about what all the other humans are doing, and

It is a spur to genocide,war and ignorance to believe that only belief in Daddy's god will get you into heaven and help you avoid going to hell where all the non believers will be.

You also accurately point out the vacuity of Anonymous's position of God is Love/Energy/House Plants.

I suppose that "moderate" position is better than saying
God is the Guy who tells me I am supposed to kill you because you don't believe in HIM.

But it adds nothing, as you say, to the realization that all mammals are moral.

Most apes obey the 10 commandments about as well as most humans, for instance.

Ex Mormons and Fundy's

Yes, my Mormon heritage goes all the way back: my great grandfather was in the Jail with joseph smith when Smith was killed.

As a 19 year old college freshman, I had to decide if I was going to become a Missionary, as all good 19 year old boys are supposed to do, so they don't get hooked on sex and drugs and rock and roll.

I looked at my Secular Jewish room mate, who was much more moral, evolved, senitive, concerned with the world's injustice problems, than I or 99.9% of the Mormons I knew,

and I said to myself:

You mean, I am supposed to tell people like this that unless they convert to Mormonism, they lose their chance to go to the best heaven (mormons call it the Celestial Kingdom), where all of those uniformed, blindly obedient, cult-like regular Mormons are going to be,

and I said, if this is the kind of God and the kind of universe and the kind of reward system that the Church believes in,

I can't sell it to the general public.
So I became a snake oil salesman instead.

Now I am addicted to Bach, reasonably decent wine, and trying to get social justice for my Gay friends. (I am 59, have a daughter at Juilliard and have been a good citizen and out of jail for 40 years post-mormon. I run a major adult ed center.

Theists, whenever consecutively questioned, end up in blank dead-ends such as love. Why can't we say goodness? In other words they mean - God = morality.

Spare a thought to the countless other people with totally different gods in china and India who are nevertheless moral.

Different gods same morality. Are we missing something here?

The only common factor is we are humans and mammals. We care for our and love our young and as an extension our family and fellow human beings

God does not equate to love. You can have enough of love without invoking god.

After all those books, bible, Koran whatever the Incas had etc... we end up with God = Love. Then why write such voluminous books and build up such rituals.

2. There is some literary/historical/cultural merit in the Bible etc (let me tell you as an ex Mormon, there is NONE in the Book of Mormon).
-------------------
An ex-mormon eh James? Wow you got the real thing. Ex fundy, charismatic myself:-)

How long have you been off the myth?

To Brian

I truly sympathize with you in your effort to get Anonymous to take a position: as I said before, ANY position.

We now get two brave assertions from our brilliant Mr Anonymous.

1. God is Love
2. There is some literary/historical/cultural merit in the Bible etc (let me tell you as an ex Mormon, there is NONE in the Book of Mormon).

Regarding 1:
A is Almost right.
Actually
God is a House Plant in a Ranch House in Maplewood New Jersey.

Now totally seriously, I am quite sure that Love exists. As the pablum pop song says
"I believe in love."

With all due respect,
to say "God is Love" and leave it at that
says absolutely nothing.
Probably worse than nothing
because it confuses any substantive discussion.

After we stipulate Love, what does "God" add?

2. It is an unbelievably obvious statement that the Bible is a very important document in our literary/historical/cultural tradition.

The Book of Ecclesiastes (sp?) is brilliant. The creaton story is embedded in everyone's mind, etc.

But WHAT does that tell us, beyond the obvious.

We all agree I guess: we should read the Bible the same way we read other mythologies/faux histories with literary psychological merit.

we have all known that for Centuries.

Brian's arguments go against what most westerners have believed for centuries.

Anonymous's truisms do what truisms always do.

God and love are two names Christians use for one and the same reality. (Did you miss that part?)
---------------
Yes I've certainly come across it, and it's clever rethoric, but it doesn't really get us anywhere.

You still MUST explain how you came upon this information, I have had many of these conversations, and thought long and hard about the subject myself. Yet I have yet to hear a compelling case made. By all means surprise me.

You say, "Do you know what 'bulk' means?"

As between the baby and the bath water, I'd say the baby is the bulk, which you say to throw out, but then say not to. Write back when you decide.
------------------
It's an indication of your desperation if you have begun to latch onto the semantics in my metaphores:-)

As it happens I think the metaphorical bath in this case IS a swimming pool. In the bible, the koran and the book of mormon, the "water" outweighs the "baby" by orders of magnitude. Still there is some good stuff in there, and it's fascinating cultural literature in it's correct context.

However, if we accept a book of Bronze Age myths as a guide to morality, then we are required to kill unbelievers, apostates, witches, cheeky children, and Sunday labourers. As all such cases cause unjustified suffering, however, they are in fact the most immoral of acts. Consequently, we can see that our own moral intuitions are a much better a guide to morality than any authority.

1) Love
2) Don't. Gotta better one?
---------------------------
No I absolutely do not. I fully concede we cannot be certain if a god exists or not, but you also concede that neither can you. Lets start from that point.

Were we differ substantially is on probability. Even if we take as given that the existence of a god, creator of the universe, but otherwise completely undefined, is 50/50, the real problems arise when you begin to layer on detail.

For example, your contention that god is love. I submit that the natural world (disease, death, random natural catastrophe), and how humans occasionally treat each other mitigates very strongly against this probability. Now there are "arguments" to explain why this is so in the context of a loving god, but they are contrived and convoluted and require far more explanation than the obvious "sh1t happens" of the materialist.

Each new attribute or property you ascribe to god, drops the probability that much lower that this specific construct exists.

Hence I keep on trying to get you supply specifics and argue why you think such and such is so, and you keep retreating to vauge, wispy constructs that frankly, the average "Ted Haggard Class" evangelical christian, or typical muslim would find heretical and suspiciously "new age". Only a few hundred years ago, both groups would have insisted on your execution for holding such poorly defined views of god.

Finally, my inability to define god is not MY problem, I've got almost nothing to work with. This is the theists problem, and it is a doozy.

You say, "Do you know what 'bulk' means?"

As between the baby and the bath water, I'd say the baby is the bulk, which you say to throw out, but then say not to. Write back when you decide.

You say, "OK, a thread to pull on....etc."

God and love are two names Christians use for one and the same reality. (Did you miss that part?) Please feel free to substitute whatever names make you happy.

1) Love
2) Don't. Gotta better one?

You say, "In fact much of what is in the holy books is so obscenely wrong, we'd be wise to ditch the bulk of them ASAP."

But you JUST SAID, "we don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water do we? We can keep the love, and ditch the xenophobia."
----------------
Do you know what "bulk" means? Look it up, you'll see why your response is silly.
----------------
Ding ding ding!! Congratulations! That's 100% Grade A traditional Catholic moral theology. It's called natural law.
----------------
Gee. You are surprised? Even catholic theologians are humans, they can observe the universe and come up with an explanation. Their's has the disadvantage of being nonsense of course, but still, kudos for observing the blindingly obvious and ascribing it to god:-)
----------------
You say, "Certainly their love and existence is orders of magnitude more tangible than that of the big 3 monotheistic gods." Except that God is love, and who abides in love, abides in God. Love does not exist apart from God, because God and love are two names for one and the same reality. The manifestations of love you describe have no reality apart from God.
-----------------
OK, a thread to pull on. How can you possibly know this about god? Did god speak to you? Did god speak to a friend of yours? Did god speak to a long dead person, who passed the information on to some other long dead individual who wrote it in a book?

How do you know god wasn't lying, or the myriad of intermediate messangers weren't lying, or even making the whole thing up?

So two important questions here.
1) Define the god you refer to.
2) How do you know the properties you have just defined.

Dear Anonymous

Good. Glad your are staying around. I am getting to like you. You are fun to play with.

James,

You say I "don't believe anything yourself that you will state an affirmative position on." What? Have you already forgotten that, in response to Brian's challenge about the Holy Spirit, I quoted the Nicene Creed to affirm my belief?

You say I "set yourself up as smarter and wiser than the rest of us." If I'm smarter and wiser, blame it on God.

P.S. Sorry, but you don't get to disinvite me.

Brian,

You say, "Why bring sky fairies into it? Why is this so hard for you to get?"

But of course it is you who has the fixation with sky fairies and keep dragging them in. (Why?) "This" is hard for me to "get" because you won't answer the question.

You say, "Our morality is rooted in our evolutionary history. This is a testable explanation which fits the facts and is observable in other species. We don't need holy books or 'revelation' to tell us what is right, or what makes stable and healthy human societies, it's in our genes."

Ding ding ding!! Congratulations! That's 100% Grade A traditional Catholic moral theology. It's called natural law.

You say, "In fact much of what is in the holy books is so obscenely wrong, we'd be wise to ditch the bulk of them ASAP."

But you JUST SAID, "we don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water do we? We can keep the love, and ditch the xenophobia."

You say, "Certainly their love and existence is orders of magnitude more tangible than that of the big 3 monotheistic gods." Except that God is love, and who abides in love, abides in God. Love does not exist apart from God, because God and love are two names for one and the same reality. The manifestations of love you describe have no reality apart from God.

You flatter yourself if you think I find your non-answers traumatic. I have no idea if God, man or the universe exist. But I do know these are the only questions that matter, and I am unwilling to sleepwalk -- or to anesthetize myself by smirking at the great unwashed and their sky fairies.

Now tell me I'm very, very bad.

Anonymous: Give it a Rest Indeed

Your convoluted and distored reasoning just pollutes the conversation.

you don't believe anything yourself that you will state an affirmative position on.

You set yourself up as smarter and wiser than the rest of us and go on to disprove that proposition with everyword, even "and" and "the."

As Brian correctly states, you studiously avoid describing your God, or anything that you believe in.

And your nihilism is much more depressing and inhuman than that which you ascribe to Brian and others.

You say, "You need to find meaning in your OWN life Mr. A." I must? Why? How rational is it to find purpose and value in my puny existence if I am certain the vast universe has none?
----------------
I seem to have really hit a nerve here. I can find value in me, the people around me, my life. What I enjoy, the challenges life presents. Why does it have to be connected to something "transcendent"? Isn't the awesome fact of your existence enough? Our existence may be puny, but we can still enjoy it can't we? Why bring sky fairies into it? Why is this so hard for you to get?
---------------------
Dr. Dawkins acknowledges that humans have the capacity to thwart natural selection. You have choice and freedom of action.
-----------------
Yeeeeeesss, and your point is what? We thwart our genes on a daily basis, but we don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water do we? We can keep the love, and ditch the xenophobia. We can have sex, yet keep family sizes down. We can eat, but steer clear of fatty foods. We can submit to our empathy to help people in need, and amplify it to extend that "local" impulse to include the entire human family.

The sheer scale and complexity of human society is testimony to our ability to thwart our genes. No argument there. Hey, you asked a specific question, don't ask if you can't handle answers that address the actual question.

Our morality is rooted in our evolutionary history. This is a testable explanation which fits the facts and is observable in other species. We don't need holy books or "revelation" to tell us what is right, or what makes stable and healthy human societies, it's in our genes. In fact much of what is in the holy books is so obscenely wrong, we'd be wise to ditch the bulk of them ASAP.

In a nutshell, it is as the Buddha said, do unto others, as you would have them do unto you:-)
---------------------------
What actual evidence or rational basis do you have for believing anyone loves you? What evidence do you have that those you love exist?
-----------------------------
They are good to me? They miss me when I'm away (or so they say), they appear glad to see me when I'm back. They send me gifts, they phone me. As to if the exist, well I can see them, touch them, hug them, hear them.

Certainly their love, and existence is orders of magnitude more tangible than that of the big 3 monotheistic gods. You seem to be talking yourself out of your faith Mr. A., am I getting through?

You go off on these wild philosophical tangents, when really all most atheists are looking for is simple. Conclusive proof that god, really any god, exists. If you can provide that I'm yours, no REALLY, I mean that.

Yet, religites cannot even meet this minimal hurdle and then get all hot and bothered when we object to this nonsense being trotted out as truth, with layers of detail no less!!! God is all loving, ooooh god is all powerful, ooooh god is actually three persons in one. ROTFL:-)

Give it a rest:-) You can blow all the philosophical smoke you like, yet your god (which you have studiously avoided describing) is almost certainly a pan generational fraud like every other god before it. I'm genuinely sorry that this is so traumatic for you.

Brian,

Thanks for proving the point splendidly. You require God to be a sky fairy, because a mature understanding of God threatens your identity.

You say, "You need to find meaning in your OWN life Mr. A." I must? Why? How rational is it to find purpose and value in my puny existence if I am certain the vast universe has none?

In any case, if I am certain my puny existence is finite, what conceivable rational basis is there for perpetuating it? There is none. Zip. Nada. You know that every excuse you could come up with is nothing but a desperate rationalization, so you convince yourself the alternative is a "sky fairy" (how precious). Put up or shut up. There is no purely rational basis for delay. Either get it over with, or acknowledge there is some intrinsic or transcendent reason you don't.

Your appeal to evolutionary imperatives is particularly hilarious. Even your own personal sky fairy Dr. Dawkins acknowledges that humans have the capacity to thwart natural selection. You have choice and freedom of action (and if you don't, why have this conversation?).

What actual evidence or rational basis do you have for believing anyone loves you? What evidence do you have that those you love exist?

You say, "Life just IS." Duh. Pass the bong, man.

Thank you, Brian, for the link to the Dawkins site. It is awesome to find out how many freethinkers we are.

"...our own feelings about injustice..."

You acknowledge a universal understanding of justice and universal "feelings" about it. The source of that understanding and those feelings is what, exactly?

Pure evolution baby. Cats, Dogs and practically all mammals exhibit crude but identifiable forms of love, self sacrifice and altruisim. It's a survival trait which we share with them.

You need to find meaning in your OWN life Mr. A. In those you love, and those who love you. In what you enjoy, in your work and in your play. Life just IS. You don't need some invisible sky fairy to define you.

Brian,

"...our own feelings about injustice..."

You acknowledge a universal understanding of justice and universal "feelings" about it. The source of that understanding and those feelings is what, exactly?

"...a supernatural construct remotely like any of the big 3 gods..."

Atheists are so insecure that they insist on a God that allows them to retain their non-believing purity.

Hey James, appreciate the vote of confidence:-)

You should join the rest of the atheists here :

http://richarddawkins.net/home

You religites are welcome too:-)

The worm is turning:-)

Ciao.

Observation: Re Gordon and Brian

I appreciate Gordon's attempt to cast light on these issues, and you said some smart things, G. But I found my mind having to do all sorts of twists and turns to follow your reasoning: proving negatives and then turning them back on their heads etc. It did remind me of the tortured arguments that Catholic theologians have about Limbo and angels.

Brian's comment on your post was like a breath of fresh air.

The logic was direct, impeccable, and understandable even by me (I must do one little brag and admit that I got an A in logic).

The major resonating point that Brian made, though certainly not a new one, is
"A casual glance at the world and our own feelings about injustice explodes the idea of the monotheistic gods."

While trying to be respectful to fundamentalists, Dawkins' argument combined with Brian's is really unrefutable by a reasonable, logical, evidence based mind.

Gordon : Regarding your rebuttals.

1:The default position is certainly to be agnostic about something unproven. At best that puts all the major supernatural constructs on par with fairies or UFO's. Hardly a compelling conversion story:-)

2:We can only reason from what we know. A casual glance at the world and our own feelings about injustice explodes the idea of the monotheistic gods. You are left pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and claiming that "we don't understand God". Yeah, no kidding. By your reasoning absolutely anything could exist, including a completely evil god who tolerates good for "mysterious reasons". It is by far the most facile response to this compelling argument I have yet heard.

Evil and good exist, these words have meanings. There occurrence appears totally random, and the most reasonable conclusion is that this is so.

3:See above
4:You dismiss this argument to easily. If I stand on a shore throwing rocks into the water, the more rocks I throw the more convinced I am that each next rock will sink, just all the rocks before. Each discovery by science is like a thrown rock, the next one MIGHT reveal god hiding behind it, but the likelihood is that the explanation will be natural just like all the millions of others.

You are like a guy standing beside the thrower shouting "OK, that rock sank, but God will make the next one float!!!". Guess what, God is running out of rocks to hide behind.

I should also note that several millenia of pondering the nature of god have revealed exactly nothing. While a mere 300 years of science has explained vast amounts, and in enormous detail. I know where my money is:-)

Anonymous, your comments are philosphical and have little to do with my major objection, that complelling evidence for a supernatural construct remotely like any of the big 3 gods is present. If you'd care to discuss that sure, otherwise I'm pretty much in agreement with your other points.

If you go to the main page of the On Faith discussion you will find an interesting tabulation of the religious affiliations of the representatives in Congress.

Those with no religious affiliation number 6 in the house and none in the senate. This represents 1.1% of congress as opposed to 14.1% in the population as a whole.

So it would seem that atheists, agnostics and pantheists are very poorly represented in Congress.

Jim -
Martooni already made it clear that your four "arguments" aren't worth the time to examine, but you seem to have missed his point.

For those that might think you have actually said something, let me take apart each of them:

= 1. The neutral position is to not believe
= in the existence of a thing. It is incumbent
= on the person proposing the existence of
= something to give the argument.
= No successful argument is given,
= thus God does not exist.

Perhaps the reason Martooni stopped before he started: The neutral position is to make no belief conclusions. To believe that a thing does not exist is *not* neutral. This type of shallow thinking pervades the rest of your four "arguments".

Ignoring that first bit of idiocy: If a god exists, that does not logically require that anyone be able to prove it. If no successful argument can be given, then those proposing the existence of a god have no valid basis to expect you to agree with them. But it takes a pretty dim person to think that this proves their god does not exist, much less that no god exists.

I doubt anyone can prove that Hippocrates actually lived and wrote the Hippocratic Oath. But at best that leaves us "agnostic" about whether he lived. It does not prove he never existed. Similar statements can be made about many others on the fringes of recorded history.

= 2. The problem of evil shows that one
= popular view of god (all powerful and
= good) can not exist (incompatible with
= evil).

This follows *only* if a divinity that is both good and all-powerful agrees with your assessment that evil should not be allowed. Perhaps our understanding of good is different from the good nature of that divinity. Having made every effort to be a good parent, I occassionally thought it good to allow my child to experience the pain of poor choices. Others may judge this was "not good". My point is that "good" is too squishy a term to hold the weight this argument places on it.

= 3. Alleged objects with contradictory
= descriptions do not exist. Examples
= include the 4 sided triangle. God's
= alleged nature is contradictory,
= therefore he doesn't exist.

No.

EITHER this is a restatement of the #2, in which the only valid conclusion here would be that the claim of both good and all-powerful is false (except that this is not contradictory in the sense of a 4-sided triangle).

OR you are making a totally unsubstantiated statement that all generic descriptions of a Transcendent Creator are contradictory. If this is the case, you left out the key part of the argument.

At best it appears that this argument could be used to prove that specific claims about a god are false, but it proves nothing about a general claim that a god exists.

= 4. All of the historic roles of god are
= now better explained in other ways
= (thunder for example is explained in
= meteorology). The god-concept is
= useless, thus by Occham's razor, god
= does not exist.

First: Occham's razor never proves the correctness of any idea. It only makes an assumption about which idea is likely to be the most useful for further investigation.

Second: This argument starts with a huge unexamined assumption that "all of the historic roles of god are now better explained in other ways". Certainly there are alternate explanations for many things, and these are more comfortable to those who prefer to believe there is no God. But issues like the origin of morals and ethics are not "better explained" by anything else yet. Nor is it yet apparent that the 20th-century creation myth of abiogenesis is any better than the ancient creation myths.

= I'm not claiming these are good arguments,
= but you don't even examine them.

I am mildly pleased that you were bright enough to avoid claiming these were good arguments. That you thought they were worth posting still seems pretty dim.

- GordonB

How can a rational intelligent person simultaneously believe that the universe has no purpose or value yet his own puny existence does?

Dear atheist friends, do you believe you exist, and if so, on the basis of what evidence?

one must begin with the knowledge that the entire body of religion is based on nothing more than assumptions and, as we know only too well, many assumptions have been proved wrong.

Anonymous, My Savior!!
thank you for relieving my torture.

We finally have a position from you, rather than just your vaunted hole-poking.

Here are two of your positions, and I quote:

Postion 1. "Okay. Here's my position: I haven't the slightest idea, and I'm trying to come up with a reason I should care."

Well, that's clear. Cynicism and apathy are two time honored strong positions.

Your second big one: "here's my real position: No intelligent person sleepwalks through life without agonizing over the fact of his existence."

So, 'Life is hard." That is what you have to add. I am glad I waited.

and finally, you give us this pearl:

"Any living intelligent person who is certain that he does not have a soul is lying."

And any intelligent person who is certain that Unicorns and Tooth Fairys don't exist is also lying.

You finally confirm what has been obvious from the beginning.

You have no interest (ability?) in contributing substantively to this conversation.

All you are interested in is showing how smart and wise you are compared to the rest of us.

You get an F. for Failure.

1.

Anyway, what's your deal with the Holy Spirit?

I find that many religious people are like republicans, disingenous liars. However, they hesitate to cross this particular threshold given there is a specific verse in the Bible, that strongly suggests you will be damned for eternity if you deny the holy spirit.

You have to laugh at the level of detail about the nature of god the bible claims to know about. I mean HOW? Different question, I digress:-)

If a poster is too superstitious to cross the line, all their talk of open mindedness should be considered so much disingenous bull crap:-) So whats it to be?

Now Brian, you know that earlier post was a private communication between the two of us...

Anyway, what's your deal with the Holy Spirit?

Credo in Spiritum Sanctum, Dominum et vivificantem: qui ex Patre Filioque procedit. Qui cum Patre et Filio simul adoratur et conglorificatur: qui locutus est per Prophetas.

No, wait, here's my real position: No intelligent person sleepwalks through life without agonizing over the fact of his existence. No intelligent person assumes he needs advanced degrees to be a physicist or a brain surgeon, but when it comes to the most important questions, everything he needs to know he learned in kindergarten. No intelligent person clings to childish notions of God just so he can reject them. Any living intelligent person who is certain that he does not have a soul is lying.
--------------------------------
Gee, not much to argue with there, except that the "childish notions of God" are the majority prevailing view. The wispy ephemeral constructs of the theologians (the study of God!!! No data, no tests, no results, could there be a dumber subject??), although equally bogus, are accepted by only a tiny minority of the rabidly and dangerously religious.

However, I thought THIS was your real position :

Anonymous:
Brian, I am proud as punch to be a dogmatic, sexist, genocidal neo-Nazi, homophobic bigot and a fundie thumper Christer Jesusland Taliban Christofascist. Please call me more names, because I deserve it. I am very, very naughty. Tell me how naughty I am, Brian! Tell me!! Get very, very, very angry with me! Only you can stop me from spreading my pernicious and posionous stuff! Only you can put an end to my arrogance and hubris! Let the hate flow! Let me have it! Talk trash about President Bush! Please! Brian!
-----------------------
Or was that just nonsense?
Deny the holy spirit already so we know where we stand, or are yah scared? Are yah a big fraidy cat of the nasty ghost in the sky?:-)

My poor tortured brother James says:

"Make a claim. State a position.
for instance, there is (or is not -
ANYThING!) a relation between intelligence and belief."

Okay. Here's my position: I haven't the slightest idea, and I'm trying to come up with a reason I should care.

No, wait, here's my position: It depends on what you mean by relation, what you mean by intelligence, and what you mean by belief.

No, wait, here's my real position: No intelligent person sleepwalks through life without agonizing over the fact of his existence. No intelligent person assumes he needs advanced degrees to be a physicist or a brain surgeon, but when it comes to the most important questions, everything he needs to know he learned in kindergarten. No intelligent person clings to childish notions of God just so he can reject them. Any living intelligent person who is certain that he does not have a soul is lying.

I cannot imagine more important questions.
---------------------------------
Frankly, neither can I, but theology is obviously not the route to answer those questions. Isn't one of the definitions of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?

Mr A. Theology is to Philosophy what Astrology is to Astronomy, or Alchemy to Chemistry. It's the nonsense dreamed up when humans had little idea about how the world worked, how things fit together. Why keep flogging a patently dead horse?

I notice you don't address the key question, what has millenia of theology revealed about the universe? It would be cool to hear your views on that.
-----------------------------------------
I love the so-called "brights" who insist they find nature and the universe endlessly fascinating, yet are absolutely incurious about how they got here and indifferent to where they're going.
------------------------------------------
On the contrary, I personally am intriuged, but that surely doesn't mean I have to give credence, or even respect to every crackpot theory trotted out by religites?

Here is another quick one. If you are genuinely not religious, and are merely "poking holes" in the pure and honest spirit of enquiry, lets hear a denial of the holy ghost. That generally flushes the superstitious out the woodwork:-)

Brian,

"Theology is a non subject, the stale recycling of ideas that are millenia old, the assertion of details that can never be confirmed or disputed."

Many thanks for illustrating my earlier point and giving me the opportunity to reiterate it: An opinion without benefit of education is merely an uneducated opinion.

"So why waste our time?"

Waste of time? I cannot imagine more important questions. I love the so-called "brights" who insist they find nature and the universe endlessly fascinating, yet are absolutely incurious about how they got here and indifferent to where they're going.

"I am also a big fan of education where the subject has ... you know .... facts."

So it's not just theology, but you also oppose all of the arts, literature and poetry (and for that matter math, computer science etc.)?

You say that I, Anonymous, "object to challenging these assertions"? Where on earth is your evidence for that, evidence guy? Poking holes ain't censorship.

Mr Anonymous and Brian

Once more, Brian gives us some substance.

Anonymous gives us BS.

Not a word of substance in it.

Mr A (how evocative the initial)
you say this is the first time you trumpet your superiority.
It has been drippingly obvious that you so regard yourself in every empty post you have written.

But you have given none of the rest of us a reason to so regard you.

This post, like all your others, does nothing to rebut the arguments of Brian or myself.

And where is the substantive point in either of your last two points. "Anonymous is educated and you're not" is, characteristically, just blather, not substance.

Make a claim. State a position.
for instance, there is (or is not -
ANYThING!) a relation between intelligence and belief. Anything of substance that can be agreed with or disagreed with, other than your unevident intelligence and erudition.

James, my dear confused brother, when — out of the most charitable motives — one helpfully attempts to point out what one judges — correctly or not — to be faulty reasoning, only the most insecure wretch would leap up repeatedly to accuse that person of putting on airs.

Now, I do indeed feel that you need to worship my superiority and erudition — BUT that is the first time you have heard me say so in this discussion. Like somebody said above, stop deliberately misrepresenting my words.

As for my supposed misrepresentation, I drew an inexact yet extremely effective analogy. So revoke my rhetorical license. And by all means please do wake me up the moment any of you manages to contribute a substantive point.

You say, "Of course when it comes to the question does God exist, we are all amateurs." Actually, thousands of brilliant professional philosophers and theologians have employed their reason, intellects, and all the available evidence to ponder and debate the nature of God for a very long time.
---------------------
Such an excellent point. Humans have pondered "God" for millenia. Tell me, what have we learned?

Do we know what he wants?
Do we know if he cares?
Do we know what he's like?
OK, a basic one. Do we even know if he exists?

Your comment below covers it off nicely:-)
---------------------------------------
Look, I have no idea what God would be if it existed, or what it would have to be in order to exist, or whether it may have existed, or may yet exist.

--------------------------------------
Not a terribly productive line of enquiry then:-) Compare the results of scientific enquiry garnered in only the last 300 years. Wow ... religion gets it ass kicked as regards explanations about the universe. Huh.

Mr. A. (may I call you Mr. A.?) Theology is a non subject, the stale recycling of ideas that are millenia old, the assertion of details that can never be confirmed or disputed. So why waste our time? Philosophy is another subject all together, and certainly far more interesting, but I don't object to that. I am also a big fan of education where the subject has ... you know .... facts.

You say you don't know what God is, or even IF God is, either. Great we are in agreement on that point. However, I object to the bald unsupported assertion that a supernatural construct exists, with layers of detail and specifics. All Loving, All powerful, died for our sins, one yet three etc. You seem not to have a problem with that, and even to object to challenging these assertions.

Given your comments, that seems something of a contradiction, why protect what you can patently see is untrue?

Anonymous has No Name
and No Substance
YET again

For the um-teenth time
Anonymous has skirted any substantive issues
that have been raised

(like how he fudge my argument on
the correlation of intelligence and belief
to make it seem like I was making a correlation
between intelligence and
God's existence)

and instead is spending all of his (and our) time trying vainly to be clever by derogating Brian's intelligence.

I for many have gotten infinitely more substance out of Brian's thoughts than I have out of
Anonymous's
Add Hominium (oh Mr A, is it spelled ad hominem?)
squibblings.

How bout really addressing the point I made to you above about how you deliberately misrepresented the argument about intelligence and belief.

Or maybe you weren't intelligent enough to understand the distinction.

Sorry to be so frank, but Brian is actually trying to make substantive points, and doing so much more effectively than you,
while you are just trying to demonstrate how superior and better educated you are than the rest of us. Not doing too good a job either.

Of course I acknowledge that Dennett is a philosopher, but I refer to the majority of "bright" posters on this thread.

Brian,

Greetings. I wonder if you may have heard of an area of human endeavor called education. (I'm trying very hard to act naughty 'cause I know you like it.)

Somebody warned me about people like you (and James) who think education is vastly overrated and an atrocious time-waster.

You say, "It's not like there is a body of evidence we can address to formulate a position on the characteristics of God." Then you immediately contradict yourself. You say you look to the universe and the world for evidence, and then you formulate your own position.

But an opinion that is reached without the benefit of education is, needless to say, merely an uneducated opinion.

You say, "Of course when it comes to the question does God exist, we are all amateurs." Actually, thousands of brilliant professional philosophers and theologians have employed their reason, intellects, and all the available evidence to ponder and debate the nature of God for a very long time.

Look, I have no idea what God would be if it existed, or what it would have to be in order to exist, or whether it may have existed, or may yet exist. I have but the flimsiest evidence that you yourself exist (and you very easily could be just a devilish bit of software). And I have no idea how probable it is that I myself exist, and if I do, whether perhaps like you I am just a piece of kludged code.

One thing is for certain, though: Uneducated amateurs produce uneducated amateurish answers. (Then for a wholly undeserved boost to their self-esteem, they nickname themselves "brights".)

I wonder if Brother Dawkins ever has offered the least proof that he himself exists — or do you simply believe in him?

Intelligence Definition

First, "A", excuse me, in my last post I meant Anonymous.

Now to your points about intelligence.

I gave you a definition of intelligence.
If you don't like that one, go to Wikipedia. They have a reasonable study of the Concept.

it's not a perfect concept, but it is a lot clearer than the Concept of God. Or of Pornography.

So if one is going to say intelligence doesn't exist because the concept is fuzzy, we certainly have to say God and Pornography don't exist. I know pornography exists, being God-less.

The measurement is certainly *not entirely* subjective. If you took the five favorite intelligence tests and gave them out, you would get pretty good correlation.

Your characterization in point to, that since there is no concurrance then atheists on this post are dishonest or cowardly, is, with all due respect, bizarre.

I happen to be having a beer after work with all the atheists iin North America, and I guarantee you we will come up with an ironclad definition of intelligence for you.

What country did you say you live in?

Intelligence Studies

Once again (let me count the ways) A distorts the question or misreads it.

The proposition was NOT
Scientists do not believe in God
THEREFORE God does not exist.

The Proposition was:
Intelligence and Belief in a Personal God
are negatively correlated.

This could be true, and God could actually exist.
Duh.

I presume elite scientists are more intelligent than I, and I know they are more intelligent than anonymous.

So they are a *sub-group* of the more intelligent people we can use to test our proposition, I believe. If you don't *think* so,throw them out.

Lots of other studies cited on the site I referenced have done correlation studies BEYOND just scientists. But you knew that. You were being cute, I know.

James @January 3, 2007 10:16 AM

Sorry for the delay in responding.

I expected two things: a definition of 'intelligence' (not a link about studies on religious opinion); concurrence by the atheists on the board that is is indeed the definition that will be discussed.

I must admit that this is a bit unfair: (1) there is no strict definition of intelligence. That of course makes its measurement subjective; (2) There will be no concurrence since, if you will pardon a blunt way of putting it, the atheists on the board are rather dishonest and cowardly. Let me clarify: the preferred tactic, of the atheists on these boards, is to state "since you can't prove a negative, it is incumbent on the theist to prove his position". I disagree with that of course: If you believe in 0 rather than 1 (or 100), you must prove that 0 is correct.

The term "brights" just doesn't work - when you are trying to replace a negative image ("Atheist")with a more positive one, a term that smacks of arrogance is counterproductive. Try "free-thinker." It connotes open mindedness and independent thinking, free of dogma. That is how I came to not believe in any of the multitude of gods, even though my parents pushed one of them. For the current athiest "vogue" to continue, a more positive and descriptive term could only help.

If you ask an intelligent person a yes/no question whether he believes in something about which he is entirely ignorant, what is his response likely to be?

I don't know?

Of course when it comes to the question does God exist, we are all amatuers. We can only give our best guess. It's not like there is a body of evidence we can address to formulate a position on the characteristics of God.

Look at scale of the universe. Try a few prayers. Look around at the injustice in the world. Reflect.

My conclusion? There is no God. Now, you tell me why you think there is one.