Apology, Acknowledgment, and Contrition

There must be a pagan spell to protect us from the likes of B16!!!

Paganplace,

Although I understand you frustrations and at time feel them myself, let me tell you this. To say "I'm sorry", especially when meant from deep down in the heart is always superior to not saying anything at all.

As a victim, all you have to do is acknowledge the apology in the manner it is intended. No one says you have to forgive and forget.

I'll also add, Rabbi, that I know your religion doesn't take too 'bright' a scriptural view of me, either. In the context of being with a Jewish family that took me in saying I was with them, at least, I've always found you Rabbis wise, circumspect, and resrained in any matter of condemnation.

I do think, in terms of assimilation, you really underestimate how Medici the Papacy still is, particularly when a lot of Protestants are a lot more scary and irrational andI basically-implacable.

hardly think Jewish people are 'saints,' by any standard, don't get me wrong. Frankly, I think Jews can be bent around a pole just as much about sexuality as anyone else, ...just I've found your hospitality honorable without complaint.

Once given, anyway.

This Pope stuff is though, different.

Anyway, summation: don't think that who's now Pope Benedict *isn't* a perp.

He was chief of Church Police when *all* this was going down. He's *still* trying to make it about people not being homophobic *enough* back then.

While people were being abused, the 'Society For The Propagation of The Faith' was sending *poison* around (and fundraising. My family *paid* for these SOBs to tear my family apart and give me this big case of 'survivor's guilt.' )

I don't think people who weren't there will ever understand. All the while Protestants and Jews were treating us like crap, too, too often. It was the Seventies. 'Life On Mars' (even though the American version basically completely ignored the ethnic and racial stuff of the time)

The present Pope *wasn't* helping. He was in charge of the problem.

More than that, he was in charge of those who were supposed to *be* the cops.

(this is a continuation from below)

Frankly, the very idea of that sort of 'forgiveness' (meaning, 'Once again accept the authority over you which I abused, or I'll further abuse you by making out like the problem is you're 'unforgiving')

"Since the Pope was not himself involved in sexual abuse, it is seemly and worthy for him to apologize,"

So you know what you're talking about here, Rabbi? The man was the head of the 'Society For The propagation Of The Faith' during all this.

AKA. 'The Holy Office.' AKA "The Holy Inquistition." HE *helped* with the coverup, and even stacking the College of Cardinals with the likes of Bernard Law. The man fricking denied things to *my face* when I was young. Trying to help some friends. Slapped that face, near as words get, and got up in front of schools *defending* what was going on,

Now-Pope-Benedict was presiding *over* the coverup when he was *supposed* to be head of 'Da Church Police.'

" but it does not approach in importance the apology of the perpetrator. Only if the church vigorously prosecutes those who are guilty will the Pope's apology have depth and force."

He *is* a perpetrator, whatever the Hel he was thinking, or knew.

Hel of a time to start claiming vicarious omniscience, *now.*

'Forgiveness' isn't mine to give, not in Catholic terms of, 'I absolve you for past instances of what you keep doing, keep doing it as if you can extract a fresh karmic slate,' ...never mind for those victims who came to kneel before him as 'supplicants.'

In Pagan terms, I don't want to be bound to him as a person, not in any wise.

In the terms of Justice I'm not going to 'drop the charges' so he can carry on being part of the problem.

He wants to join 'the good guys,' ...Goodness ain't picky where you've been in that way.

This ain't about smoothing things over to drag us back to the bad old days. All our kids deserve better.

Hey, Rabbi, maybe you're onto something, here.:

"Apology is not exoneration. To say "I am sorry" does not make one suddenly guiltless."

For Catholics, though, especially those doling out 'God's Forgiveness,' though, ....maybe that's the issue.

Quis confesserat ipsos confessores? (pardon if I mangle the Latin. It's been a while. :))

Often, though, there's a sort of passive-aggressive *demand* for forgiveness, however lame or further-insulting the 'apology.'

"An apology is an expression of good will, not a balancing of scales or a cleaning of slates. Germany's apologies for the holocaust do not mitigate on whit the guilt of those involved. Only the person who has committed the crime has the moral authority to apologize in a way that might lessen guilt, depending upon circumstances. Only the one against whom the crime has been committed has the right to offer expiation."

Maybe it's not about what they call 'expiation.'

Maybe it's about 'Stop.'

Abusers *commonly* use the Christian notion of *forgiveness* to *demand amnesty and endorsement of the power they abused in the first place.

If you've ever confronted or forgiven an abuser, you'll know what I mean.

Sorry, I wanted to hit preview rather than submit.

"You are correct that only the perpetrator and the victim and give apology and acceptance of that apology."

should read:

You are correct that only the perpetrator can give apologies and only the victim can receive them and act accordingly. Forgive or not.

Rabbi Wolpe:

You are correct that only the perpetrator and the victim and give apology and acceptance of that apology.

However, there are times when the guilt is to great, be it that of a nation or that of a church, that each and every member should apologize and mean it sincerely.

As a German, being born post WWII, I still apologize for the atrocities my country committed even though I had no part of it. There is such a thing as collective guilt, or guilt my association.

As such, I think that the Pope's apoligies were justified, but his actions are not. To simply pull people out of the public view and give them a cushy job in the Vatican is quite contrary to his apology.

aGEETA-YOM/TOV! Or HATZA MAYA! {Happy Holiday}