Religion is not the cause of conflict

No. 2 of 2

Secular:

CORRECTION TO PREVIOUS POST

Meant to write:
However, you mimic those CHRISTIANS who became ATHEISTS during the Enlightenment, and took on Judaism and the OT (sic) because they were afraid of the Catholics, primarily.
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Further, your argument that since this is a "Christian country," you are taking on Christianity is ridiculous. The NT (sic) is the primary Christian text, and you take it on NEVER. I make this point so yet again so that it cannot be overlooked, even by you.

Jews are a minority in this country, Secular, and yet, according to the FBI, they are the victims of 66% of bias crimes in this country. If you want to take on a text, how about the canabalistic, salvific NT, with its murderous God, the ultimate child killer, not to mention its obsessive blood-letting, threats of ever-lasting doom for those who do not "believe," essentialism, racism, you name it.

But you have not read any of the voluminous critique, have you, Geenyoss? Nor have you thought about this text. Want to take on Christianity, take on the Christian Testament. Otherwise, you sound like a hypocrite, bigot, and coward.

As for India, trust me, the times they are a changin'. See my post, below.

Secular:

Re: Your post

Predictably, you failed to comment on that which I post below again below. And, Adolf, you are a simple bigot and coward, without even enough sense to attempt complexity. The NT (sic), for its darkness, the source of NAZI propaganda has been addressed by numerous Catholic and Protestant scholars. JOhn was a great favorite of yours, Adolf, in fact.

However, you mimic those atheists who became Christians during the Enlightenment, and took on Judaism and the OT (sic) because they were afraid of the Catholics, primarily.

The fact is that regardless of the discussion, you come up with something "OT" related. Unlike the champions of the Enlightenment, however, you are appallingly ignorant. Like them, you are a coward, although since no one here on this blog knows who you are, Adolf, you should could summon courage if you had any to summon.

Last year, the second international conference on untouchability was held. It's going to end, Adolf. Say that final goodbye to Eva Braun, or the BJP equivalent.

In the meantime shut your nazi trap. No one is interested, least of all yours truly. Grow up, and get a gray cell.
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Secular:

Re: Your post

Here is an interesting comment of DITLD, who unlike your sad self, reads. (Try it some time.) However, the fourteenth century is actually a bit late. It all started before then. At all events, I'm logging off, so regards to the BJP.
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DanielintheLionsDen:

TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ1 :

I said the following which you cited as an IRT:

“The historical anti-Semitism of the Catholic, that the Jews killed Christ, that the Jews are agents of Satan, set the stage finally, in the twentieth century for Hitler and the Nazis to do their dirty work. So the word "infallible" is hardly a word that anyone should associate with anything Catholic."

Even though you gave the IRT, in reply to, you did not reply to what I said. I was speaking of the the historical Catholic Church and its anti-Semitic program throughout the ages in which it ruled supreme in Europe. Where do you think European anti-Semetism came from?

You said that the Catholic Church is infallible and unchangeing. But you better hope that is not true, or else what it taught about the Jews in the fourteenth century is still taught today.

Do you think that is true?

September 20, 2010 6:05 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Posted by: FarnazMansouri2 | September 21, 2010 2:20 AM
Report Offensive Comment

Farnaz: I had not seen this nasty post of yours earlier, but feel compelled to respond, contrary to the last one I posted. You claim about me, "You are an amusing bigot and hypocrite. You vilify Judaism, quote from the "OT" (sic), cluelessly, denigrate Islam, and spew against Christianity, although like the coward you are, you do that rarely. The NT, which has been responsible for two thousand years of blood-letting, including that of Hindus, is beyond your timid self". I do not care about Jews or Muslims, Or Christians. I do find all scripture to be horrible and ludicrous. I say so and ridicule them. When I ridicule OT, or NT or Koran its just that. It perhaps casts a poor light on those who look to them as a guidance. I do find talking snakes, Sun being put on hold, Jinns, tale of Zal Qurnain just a tad silly and I am going to mock them. The same of the more nasty passages in these books. the adherents claim these are eternal book of guidance. Sorry eternal books must not carry such vile things. I do not find guidance in them for 21st century. This happens to be "Washington Post" published in a country which is predominantly Christian, so the topics run along those lines and are topical in the US. So, obviously I will be commenting about OT, & NT. Islam has been a topic of great interest in the US for past decade so that gets in quite often. When I use OT, & NT, I use them as every one here easily identifies with the tomes I am referring to. They are just books to me, if they are very sacred to you so be it. i am not here to coddle your sensitivities. People have referred to Origin of Species in a denigrating manner, so what I don't go crying about it. I don't care about some nuances. If OT says Avram pimped his half-sister wife of his save his hide that is enough. I spit on that character, just the same way as I would spit on some Jack Ahmed Shastri had pimped his wife. Tell me actually all of us, wouldn't you spit on Jack Ahmed Shastri? Then, why the reverence to this Avram character, from OT?

If I were writing on a forum such as this by "Indian Express" or "Times of India, or "Statesman" I would be castigating Gita, Manu Smrithi, Koran, Kalpa Sutra, Zend Avesta probably not much on OT or NT. Because that is probably the more discussed books there. I am not here to be an arbiter of your theists' schisms. I am opposed to all varieties of theisms, period. But I am not going to be gratuitously writing about every sill sacred text.

As to your comment on being clueless about Islam, that is one of the more sillier of your statements. Do you think coming from India the second largest muslim country in the world I am clueless? I have a beach property in Kansas you would love, I will unload it to you. Enough of this nonsense.

Farnaz you are indeed a tiring person. All your attacks on the other posters have been very personal and vicious, when you cannot engage the others on the substance of the arguments. I guess you expect to be adored by one and all because you are a professor of some sort, and defer to you. Sorry to disappoint you, actually not. SO far you have not contradicted any of the facts that I have mentioned in my post of 6 days ago. Instead you conflated that into the situation of Dalits' in India. As though the plight of Dalits started due to some abdication of duty on my part. Their plight is due to another set of musty old tomes, perhaps 4000 to 5000 years old. It is a legacy of you theists. It is no pox on my house. So give it a rest lady. I told you once before I will comment on it when that is the topic of the thread. So go beg, cajole and threaten your buddies on the "On Faith" forum and make it the topic, if you want to hear about my views, otherwise you will do yourself a great service to keep your nasty mouth shut. I noticed you are turning into Winnie, when someone with contrary views to your fond opinions, especially from India, you hang this Dalit thing as a NECKLACE just like your mentor Winnie. I am done with you on this thread, unless you have something to say about my arguments from 6 days ago.

Secular:

Re: Your post

Here is an interesting comment of DITLD, who unlike your sad self, reads. (Try it some time.) HOwever, the fourteenth century is actually a bit late. It all started before then. At all events, I'm logging off, so regards to the BJP.
---------------------------

DanielintheLionsDen:

TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ1 :

I said the following which you cited as an IRT:

“The historical anti-Semitism of the Catholic, that the Jews killed Christ, that the Jews are agents of Satan, set the stage finally, in the twentieth century for Hitler and the Nazis to do their dirty work. So the word "infallible" is hardly a word that anyone should associate with anything Catholic."

Even though you gave the IRT, in reply to, you did not reply to what I said. I was speaking of the the historical Catholic Church and its anti-Semitic program throughout the ages in which it ruled supreme in Europe. Where do you think European anti-Semetism came from?

You said that the Catholic Church is infallible and unchangeing. But you better hope that is not true, or else what it taught about the Jews in the fourteenth century is still taught today.

Do you think that is true?

September 20, 2010 6:05 PM | Report Offensive Comment

Secular,

Re: Your post--Another reply

I forgot, M. Geenyoss, to reply to your ridiculous, defensive, nationalistic posturing on Indian Muslims.

You really are silly. Now, rather than post a link to an Indian academic who likens the plight of Indian Muslims to that of the Dalit, I shall provide you with quick and easy access to the Council on Foreign Relations:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/13659/indias_muslim_population.html#p2

And, it occurs to me, we haven't even gotten to Kashmir, although others have been very busy there this past week. Plan to get the hundred thousand Indian troops out any time soon? Any hopes of the occupation ending?

Jes' wonderin'

Secular,

Re: Your post

You are an amusing bigot and hypocrite. You vilify Judaism, quote from the "OT" (sic), cluelessly, denigrate Islam, and spew against Christianity, although like the coward you are, you do that rarely. The NT, which has been responsible for two thousand years of blood-letting, including that of Hindus, is beyond your timid self.

The Christians wouldn't like it. Except that some, in fact, many are far more courageous than your embarrassing self, who has managed to lose that little respect generally afforded newcomers.

The Dalit, have been the subject of many a post, and, now, two articles, which include firsthand testimony. The agony of 250,000,000 people is not trivial. The conversions and slow radicalizating of these people is likewise hugely problematic.

That doesn't matter to you, of course. You're a simple hypocrite. (Accent on hypocrite.)

Farnaz you wrote, "I'd ignore Secular's posts, Rabbi. He pastes the same incoherent drek throughout the blog, and no one pays attention. He'd rather hate than deal with his native country's ongoing atrocities against 250,000,000 people, viz., the Dalit".

Please the topic of this particular thread is "PEACE TALKS: DOES RELIGION HELP OR HURT?" which part of this sentence leads you to understand that the thread is about Dalits of India. You claim to be a learned professor of some sort. If so I just feel sorry for the kids enrolled in your courses.

Once and for all stop trying to hang that necklace around posters of Indian origin, whenever their opinions are opposed to your fond opinions. It gets tiring and you look indeed like a vindictive person. What is it with you, until couple of months ago all you could do is copy and paste your diatribes against RCC. At that time again thead nausseum posts were there whether it dealt with RCC or not. Give it up lady. If you have any quarrel with me on the facts of my post by all means mouth off, else it is bets you keep your opinions to yourself till it is the topic of the thread.

Then you went on to say "Sally Quinn, "Hindu," refuses to allow them to be the subject of an OnFaith discussion, sadly enough. It is especially sad as Indians are discussing both their abysmal plight and that of the Indian Muslims".

SO now Sally Quinn is a Hindu. Does she know that? I did not she was the big sister of Julia Roberts. I suppose so, as you are the know it all on this blog. And John Meachem is Zoroastrian.

"I'd appreciate anything you could do to help give the Dalit and the Indian Muslims the attention they deserve on this blog".

Isn't that marvelous. Unlike your delusional imaginations, the Indian Muslims do not need your help. Which country in the world Professor-know-it-all has as many as four muslim Presidents in a non-muslim majority nation. For that matter name me one country which had elected even a fraction of presidents from a minority community. The chief Nuclear scientist of the country was a Muslim, trusted with the most secret of secrets. Which country has so many matinee idols from a minority community as India has in Bollywood or Tollywood, etc, etc. You should actually count to 25 before you start ponding on that qwerty kwyboard of yours, lest it becomes an exercise in putting your Pradas in your mouth, all the time.

Next time when there is a thread devoted to Dalits and such you will see me addressing that topic. It may surprise you what my opinions are on that subject. until then it is best you stick to your patented anti-RCC diatribes.

I'd ignore Secular's posts, Rabbi. He pastes the same incoherent drek throughout the blog, and no one pays attention. He'd rather hate than deal with his native country's ongoing atrocities against 250,000,000 people, viz., the Dalit.

Sally Quinn, "Hindu," refuses to allow them to be the subject of an OnFaith discussion, sadly enough. It is especially sad as Indians are discussing both their abysmal plight and that of the Indian Muslims.

I'd appreciate anything you could do to help give the Dalit and the Indian Muslims the attention they deserve on this blog.

correction:

Dear "ONFAiTH" Blogers et al:

P-R-O-T-E-S-T! P-R-O-T-E-S-T!

EXPLANATiON: According to OUR (NOt their) U.S. Holyi Constitution:

Pleazza, DO-NOt Answer ANY of: "UNDER GOD" or "GEORGE TOWN FAiTH" nor any "BLOGS and COLUMNS" nor any "GUEST ViEWS". Thank YE/YO's!

WHEREFORE:

Only Post & Blog at "Susan Jacoby" & "DiSCUSSION" and only on "OUR ViEW"s and "Your Views". Thank Ye/Yo's Bredrens & Sistrens, ACH & Chods ... aka HUMAN's (Pisces's) Thinkers (Pre-Apocalyptarians)) & EKLAHtian's (AquariUS's) thinkers aka US (Apocalyptarians).! A New-Age In Faith Exchanging!

Behold: The DOWN-FALL of Cathoholic "George-Town University" & "Berkley Center" is Near!

Includes some of it's Satanic VersUs Lov'n Alumni; (includes Symbolic Cannibal & Symbolic Vampire Addicts like G.T.'s ex-Prez Bill Clinton & Co.! And His/Her Pedophile-Vatican-Empire et al!

Hark; The Great Curse On the iRish is near!

part 1 of 2:

Dear Jealous wannabe EBERU-Ju: Sista Ori Z. Soltes & CO.;

RE: A Secular Question (to Hell with JU Question) involving The so called, "350,000 Wandering Apocalyptic Lovin JYOKTANian {EKLAHTi-ON's}" (Not Jealous Pre-Apocalyptic Lov'n PELEGian's) Living in the "wannabe "JU-STATE, NOt a SABRA-STATE of the ROCK: Fix Your Own Houses & Biggest Problem with, 1st!

Hint: The Soul of a "SABRAite" (Jyoktanian's & Pelegian's) art Priceless, Not even Ye G-d(s) can but "IT" (our G_D, not a HE nor a SHE, only an "IT" being "iTSELF" in and out of US ALL)! Hence; EKLAHt-i-ON's, never OF's! Soo,

Pleazzaaa, Do NOt be in Denial to selves nor others, nor DO-n-Then-Deny, or Deny-n-then-Do (via Jealousy).

YE & Shmuel Rosner [of 'JPOST'] should trial'd by the IDF: Then be found guilty of "Sedition"; then blind folded & shot by the IDF. Note: Jealousy of Shmuel et al; Hath Hidden ME/MY/OUR Works from Humanity. WE[i] already submitted the "Solution To that Mid-East Pollution" by way of Essay/Blog. So With holding It (Answer to Everlasting Peace) a blessing, is a Great Sin! A Curse against Israel & All their little or big Helpers (direct or indirect).

Note: Israel is our "3rd [living] Temple": Not Yours! NOt Tadee, nor Heredi et al SuperStupidStitious Anti-SABRAite-3rd-Temple folks via Fanatic FUND'd-MENTAL'st cases! [OUR Enemies Which We Will Destroy anywhere on S.S. Earth! Soo,

Post 1948 [Secular] ISRAEL Can Never be, nor meant be, Nor will i[WE] "New-Hagganian"s on S.pace-S.hip Earth, allow for a "JU-STATE." It is better to destroy it [Israel as We know it now] all now; then cause another future HOLOCAUST, provoking Ishlami/Easaites (NOt Hitler This Time)!! WHY

Because [ironically this week is "SUKKOT"] and the Religious Jealous Rabbinate & JU-Mafioso's & Gangs Int'l therein Are CURSED! Zero Bless'th!

2 of 2:

Ye/Yo art "CURSED" because The bulacrap about Abrahamic-Pelegians determining "Who is a JU via the "350,000 or so called None JEW's" Question will Destroy YOU! Hint: The "SAVIOUR" is biorn'th among them. O' Jealousy! (Ye/Yo Curse)!

Note: iRonically, i[WE] EKLAHt-iON's [Of JyOKTAN stock] NOt like Ye/Yo's PELEG Satanic-VersUS lovin stock], call them, the "WANDERiNG JEWS"!

Secret; There are several EKLAHt-iON's (aka HUUMATE(s), NOt Human's like Yo/Ye's))among Them 350,000, who will Save Israel. Else the so-called "G-d of Yisroel/Eretz" will Be Destroyed him/her once and Forever again!

PS: All None-JU Secular-States, should STOP supporting the JU-State of what was once known as "The-Rock aka The "SABRA-STATE". Reality: Maybe Israel's Usurping (Desecrating) Leaderships of today [i.e., mr. Bibi & CO. of god Players] , Can't See the Current STATE-of-Our Reality (Not Theirs); but

but WE[i], Children of the "The Haggana folks {pbu them} , Urgun's folks {pbu Them}, Palmach's folks {pbu Them} & CO {peace be upon Them ALL} Can see the F-U-T-U-R-E. But Ye/Yo only See the Past! O' Blind & Jealous 3rd Temple Israeli Leaderships.

Note: Bibi et al Should be Duly blind folded & shot Instead! Aye? O' If i[WE] was Prime Minister!

VOTE: DEATH to THEOCRACY & MONARCHY on This Holyi Bless'th, Zero Curs'th nor Sin'th, yet NEBULA-BUILT, zero Biblio-Built, Holyi S.pace S.hip Earth {of many} of our "O.U.R." [O.ne U.niversal R.eligion] Zero G-d(s) , o' god(s) Chosen garbage people!

O' "BLIND" & "LAME" (Pelegian) wannabe SABRA's (Jyoktan's)! Ye/Yo again forsak'th the Message/Words/Prophecy! No Mercy This Holyi TiME (Innate Holy Temperature) via time (man made clocks)!!!

It is really disingenuous to claim that mid-east conflict is not religious. Whatever color you may give to the conflict as it exists today, one cannot escape the fact that the genesis is most definitely religious. But for the fact that the ancient Hebrews had not claimed that the land was a grant from their skydaddy to them, this would not be happening today. The way I see it is back some 3000 years ago, there was essentially inter-tribal battle for that piece of land. The actual reasons are probably lost for ever. But piecing through the Old Testament, it was admittedly occupied by Canaanites, Jebusites, and assorted other peoples. Then came the Hebrews who claimed it was benediction to them from their deity. This myth was then embedded into their founding texts, thus given this false notion of sacredness to the mythical claim and entitlement. Admittedly that deity forgot to inform the same to the sundry people already there. May be they would have quietly moved on to some other place. Anyway I digress. Hebrews established themselves, be it be in a very contentious manner. However, over the period due to countless number of conflicts and wars most of the Hebrews or Jews had migrated out of the region. Thus that area had been occupied for past 1000 to 1500 years by whoever, had not migrated out - actually the descendants of the ancient Jews and other religionists, who had not emigrated. Over the 15 centuries, most of the people, for reasons irrelevant to the issue on hand, have turned out to be muslims. Then comes the late 19th century with rampant anti-semitism of past centuries the emigrants to Europe have been looking for a piece of land they could call their own. In fact if my memory serves me right the areas considered was newly colonized South America. Along come in the early 20th century a notion that preparations be made for the impending 2nd coming. Based on the some dubious predictions, this time of new testament, the Prime Minister of England Lloyd George and his Foreign secretary issued the so call "Balfour Deceleration. This was done to ensure the facilitate the necessary conditions were in place for second coming. It did not matter to the imperial masters, this time that there were people already living there for nearly a hundred generations. Let alone it wasn't theirs to give away. The native peoples of mid-east, or at least for the past 15 centuries were Royally screwed (pun intended), yet again. That is the genesis of the present conflict. Now to say that religion is not the cause of the conflict is sticking your head in the sand. It is totally fallacious, and shows how bent up the people are to absolve religion of its culpabilities.

You need to watch Death in Gaza and then you can tell me that religion doesn't play a part in the Israel vs Palestine. Islam has a strong tradition of martyrdom in the name of the faith, and it becomes especially perverse in the minds of the children and young men in the Palestinian territories.
Likewise, you can tell me religion does not have a factor in the conflict when you can explain why millions of Europeans would emigrate to a desert country to fight its indigenous inhabitants for land. The Jewish Israelis are not interested in their country because they have to have their own land, they are interested in it because it has such strong ties to their religious and historical beliefs, namely that it was God Given.
You can claim secular politics all you want, and some of that is certainly true, but you cannot deny that Jerusalem and all the religious goodies in it are not one of the biggest sticking point in every single peace negotiation. Secular power situations can be resolved with compromise, but these religious problems... I don't really know how one fixes it when two people believe god told them they need to own the same thing exclusively.