Inauguration of a New Spirituality

Atheism is stupidity. Why? It's because they can't see intelligence inherent in nature. The same with evolution.

Here's just some of my previous posts :

1. Those who believe in evolution only have to observe how a fertilize egg turns into an intelligent brain and proclaim that NO INTELLIGENCE was involved in the process.

Maybe there is NO intelligence present if the brain they are observing happens to be theirs.

2. Evolution does not believe in Intelligent Design. If you guys just open your eyes and shut out stupidity in your brains, you would notice that all plants and animals are intelligently made.

What comes in to run the computer is electricity and what comes out on its display monitor are products of intelligence.

Plants and trees take in soil nutrients and they produce edible fruits. The transformation or process between input (soil nutrients) and output (the fruit) is called INTELLIGENCE.

Without intelligence, those plant or trees would produce "soil fruits". NO TRANSFORMATION WILL HAPPEN.

3. Intelligence can produce (dumb and smart) objects but NO dumb object/s can produce intelligence.

In other words, if we try to rewind creation and and look for the beginning of things, we would end up finding INTELLIGENCE as the MAIN SOURCE of creation.

The SOURCE means NOTHING can come before it.

Iam an engineer and engineers are trained to CREATE things. Evolution has so many things to answer before it can be viewed as a true science. Right now its science is as true as the existence of batman.

DUMB,DUMB,DUMB and DUMB. This is truly a dumb world for believing in evolution. All these biologists are DUMB.

" spidermean2
"How many times should I say this that Catholicism is NOT Christianity. There may be good Catholics and I have many catholic friends but the religion itself is of the devil.

"So Pagan, please realize that you were NEVER been a Christian. You have no idea what Christianity is."

Never claimed I was, here. But, from all the wonderful billing, it doesn't seem you're doing such a bang-up job of it, yourself.

clearthinking1 wrote "Can Christians say all religions are EQUAL and worthy of mutual respect?"

First of all, not all that is called Christians are true Christians. Catholicism is NOT Christianity.

Second, NOT all religions are true. The devil himself has lots of religions including some inside "Christianity" itself.

Vedanta believes that human nature is divine.

Wrong. Without the guidance of the Holy Spirit, man has tendencies to be out of control.

Doomsday is coming because of unchecked human nature .

True Christianity is not in the proseletyzing business. We're on the SHARING and WARNING business. Sharing the good news and also warning that man by himself is on his way to doom unless he repents of his evil deeds caused by his sinful HUMAN NATURE.

There's a recent survey that atheists are five times more likely to watch pornography than evangelical Christians.

Try make a survey that involves Vedanta believers. I'd be surprised if they won't top the atheists.

4thwatch,

You wrote "Hindu benevolence does not extend to the poorest in their midst."

This is another example of the dangers of self-righteousness. It inhibits clear thinking.

There is significant poverty in Pakistan. Is that because Islamic benevolence does not extend to the poorest?
There is significant poverty in South and Central America. Is that because Christian benevolence does not extend to the poorest?
There is significant poverty in Africa, Haiti etc...

Using poverty as an excuse to prostelytize is insincere and unnecessary. It sows the seeds of conflict. Then you scream persecution. This is an old pattern of behavior and it is destructive.

What really is the goal of proselytizing? Hindus respect all religions, that is why India has had a myriad of beliefs and religions for thousands of years. The philosophy of unity(Vedanta) is why there has been tolerance, plurality, vegetarianism, nonviolence, yoga etc... Can Christians say all religions are EQUAL and worthy of mutual respect?

The "I'm Brahman" understood as "I'm God" is the same as atheism.

The caste system is very much a product of Hinduism and it has been the source of much evil and exploitation of India's poor. When a high caste Hindu bars any low caste Hindu from converting to another religion, they are basically fighting to keep the exploitative religious caste system intact.

Paganplace

“Superior charity?” … Any and I mean any hand extended to the needy is of great and equal value.
Many judge by how big the hand is but I tell you sister it’s the intent of the Heart that sets charity’s value.

I never met Theresa, but she was no different from us. She recognized a need and extended a hand, that’s all. Her heart to serve others was/is no different than yours or mine, all of them are precious in their own right.

Pagan, my point is the human blood on Orissa soil, the lives taken there and elsewhere because of their faith/belief is wrong, always will be.
To justify such persecution as Clearthinker does reveals secular dogma in its basest form.

How many times should I say this that Catholicism is NOT Christianity. There may be good Catholics and I have many catholic friends but the religion itself is of the devil.

So Pagan, please realize that you were NEVER been a Christian. You have no idea what Christianity is.

Anyway, not to rath too much, 4th, but I'm a little sensitive to this whole line like Mother Theresa was the only good person in a whole country full of 'brown people' ...whose saintliness was supposed to justify all the rotten stuff being done right here in front of my face.

Enough of that.

Let's put it this way, 4thwatch.

While they were trying to raise me Catholic, I heard them constantly lionizing 'Mother Theresa' for deigning to tend to outcasts, while they were systematically making outcasts of me, and a number of others.

I'm sure she was a real person trying to do the right thing, but don't give me that line about your 'superior charity.'

Hello Paganplace

Christians who use or withhold, food, money, shelter, protection from violence, or any other resource so as to coerce someone to follow Christ … Do not have Christ within them, period.
They may appear to be spiritual but the truth is not within them.
Yes I have seen this in the States, never abroad.

The truth is when people are in need; too many are unwilling to sacrifice their time, money, comfort, to reach out to others.

To even contemplate justifying a persecution, let alone one unto death, is way beyond my reach.
Faith should not be a capital offense for anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Surely we can agree on this.

Well.

" 4thwatch

"The redundant charge of Christian proselytizing as the “source of conflict” is such a very narrow view. Missionaries are often accused of this when they bring food and provisions to the poorest of families, those who are of the lower castes, those forgotten by their own society."

Yes, if 'missionaries,' foreign or domestic, make people 'pray for their supper,' particularly in the aftermath of Christian colonialism, yeah, it's a source of 'conflict.' If you make it one.

If you want to help the poor, help the poor.

Get it done.

Turning it into advertising or trying to induce 'conversion experiences' in the malnourished is *exploitation.*

I have a lot more respect for those Christians who, like others of us out here, help people for the sake of helping people, not for advertising, claiming others are 'uncharitable' or to manipulate people toward your agenda and use them as poster children.

The Deist view referred to as 'God' in American tradition is not one which places conditions or riders or dogmatic agendas on our humanity, our democracy, or our nation.

The *Deist* view of God is one I could swear by as an American, actually, if so many people hadn't turned it into something *else.*

Something that affronts both my humanity *and* my religion.

I've *been* homeless and hungry, and sick, and I've seen many different kinds of sharing and giving.

Some of the most arrogant of them made me say, 'Not *that* hungry.'

There is that last inch, where after all pride and dignity before others have fled, that inch which gives us *soul.* That which is *ours.* Some who use other people's hunger to push their religion, may think the 'ends' justify the means, and are even a good thing, but it's not *giving,* ...it's buying.

Trying to buy that last inch which is, by the Gods, not for sale.

That last inch involves being an American, a human. With *unalienable* rights and equality, which cannot be taken away, even by priests or clergy or anything else done in the name of some *book.*

Frankly, it's the part of me where *my* sincerest prayers to *my* Gods come from.

There's no way I could sell that to someone with a bowl of soup and still have anything to pray *with.*

America does not have to be so specific, or demanding, or defend or promote *anything* but that all people are, by the highest Sacred any of us can swear to, 'created' equal.

Not contingent upon a Christian or Judeo-Christian or even a *theist* idea of 'God,' but *any* idea of 'God' acknowledged or unacknowledged.

It's acknowledged as *self-evident.* *Inherent,* not seen as granted by books or priests who might claim that what *they* give might be *taken away.*

*We the people* ...as citizens, *choose this.*

May it please both Reason, Compassion, and the good Gods we, any and all, swear by.

Clearthinking1

The redundant charge of Christian proselytizing as the “source of conflict” is such a very narrow view.

Missionaries are often accused of this when they bring food and provisions to the poorest of families, those who are of the lower castes, those forgotten by their own society.

At the present time Hindu benevolence does not extend to the poorest in their midst, and their need is great. If not Missionaries, who then, will step up to help these ostracized people?

This is the simple need Mother Teresa ministered to, so it is with Christian Missionaries.

To simply respond “proselytizing” When a Christian or anyone extends a helping hand to another human in need is the very mindset that permits, such murderous persecutions.

I urge you to reconsider, rethink, your view of Christians.

Regards

Rick Warren's prayer was outstanding as was the closing prayer. Even with the gaff in the oath, it was a perfect inauguration. Contrary to the wishes of the contrarians, it didn't snow bushels. The sky cleared, the sun shone, and the people smiled and cheered. Not one person was arrested. No protesters were observed. What a day by any standard!

As a moderate Southern Baptist (a heretofore vanishing breed), I was proud of all of the inaugural events, starting with the concert at the Lincoln Memorial on Sunday.

Today, I saw Hillary's welcome at the Department of State. What speeches! What a reception! Yes, the sun is shining. God is still on His throne. After 8 years of punishment, God has smiled on us. For those who believed that Bush was God's chosen President, then they must also believe that Obama is God's chosen President. Of course, I am a fool to think that the religious right will get it. The radicals in the Middle East are very similar to the radical religious right here.

Now that he has hopped through all of the right hoops to get into office, I hope that Obama will foster a more inclusive spirituality. One step might be to begin steering away from the secular Israeli philosophy that seems to have dominated our approach to the middle east for the past eight years. The West Bank model has been a complete failure in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it hasn't worked too well for the Israelis either. Many Muslims are still prohibited from praying for Obama, even though they are ecstatic over his election, because of his implicit support of this very secular and destructive philosophy.

Reserve those tears. It may prove useful when the time come that you'd be facing the Source of Intelligence face to face.

elife1975, the evidence that you're talking about is quite similar to the scripts they use for making hollywood movies.

They are fictional so don't be too carried away. Hold on those tears of yours.

maybe you'll find this more meaningful. If you have an answer, then I'll stop.

Atheism is stupidity. Why? It's because they can't see intelligence inherent in nature.

Here's just some of my previous posts :

1. Those who believe in evolution only have to observe how a fertilize egg turns into an intelligent brain and proclaim that NO INTELLIGENCE was involved in the process.

Maybe there is NO intelligence present if the brain they are observing happens to be theirs.

2. Evolution does not believe in Intelligent Design. If you guys just open your eyes and shut out stupidity in your brains, you would notice that all plants and animals are intelligently made.

What comes in to run the computer is electricity and what comes out on its display monitor are products of intelligence.

Plants and trees take in soil nutrients and they produce edible fruits. The transformation or process between input (soil nutrients) and output (the fruit) is called INTELLIGENCE.

Without intelligence, those plant or trees would produce "soil fruits". NO TRANSFORMATION WILL HAPPEN.

3. Intelligence can produce (dumb and smart) objects but NO dumb object/s can produce intelligence.

In other words, if we try to rewind creation and and look for the beginning of things, we would end up finding INTELLIGENCE as the MAIN SOURCE of creation.

The SOURCE means NOTHING can come before it.

Spidey, your diatribes are getting old and repetitive. You continue to stand firm in your convictions even in the face of overwhelming opposition and evidence. There's a definition for one who continues to take the same actions with no change in the results: Insanity. Start asking yourself some serious questions and then maybe others on this post will begin to respect you. Or stay your course and continue to be marginalized and viewed as more of an annoyance than as someone who can contribute to a meaningful discussion.

Hmmm. That list of policy options listed by Deepak sound suspicious like those favored by the....Pope! They have long been part of Catholic social teaching -- perhaps it secular humanists put more energy looking for topical allies in the various denominations and religious bodies rather that bashing religious as ignorant misanthropes enmass we might be further along. And oh by the way, the hope for decline in religion does nothing apriori to free people, just makes them subject to an inhuman secularism that finds nothing sacred except military supremacy, an unregulared market and sexual expoitation for gain.

Maybe I spoke too soon, I think cosmic_central was making a parody to insult evolutionists.

Sorry for my "friendly-fire" response.

cosmic_central wrote "We all know how we really got here - by chance of nature."

Well, isn't that "SCIENTIFIC"? Can I ask a question then? Is nature that intelligent that everything it does BY CHANCE are all working perfectly? How come humans can't recreate anything that nature has made by chance alone like making an artificial mosquito or a fly?

DUMB. Can you please let nature use your brain so it can work perfectly.

Is this what is being taught in our schools today? Teaching our kids stupidity?

Obama should find a way cutting the budget for our public schools if all they can teach is foolishness.

As much as Christians in this blessed nation should respect and cherish our democratic ideals and system of government, we must keep ever in mind that the Kingdom of God is ruled by a higher and infinitely more perfect law and system of governance.

Be warned: God is not running for office, and heaven is not a democracy.

clearthinking1, you are not a clear thinker. Your problem is ignorance. Ignorance coupled with distaste for learning.

I don't think Hinduism can actually survive if there are no true Christians propagating its basic doctrine of FREEDOM of CONSCIENCE.

You have no idea that Christian Evangelicals consider that kind of freedom as a VERY ESSENTIAL element towards attaining salvation of souls.

COERCION is OUT of every true Christian's vocabulary.

WW2 and the cold war was fought between the agents of subjugation vs the freedom fighters. True Christians fought for the latter side.

If not for them, I don't think there will be an India similar to what we see it today.

Subjugated India, it would be.

Coupled with freedom of conscience, should be freedom of speech. Study that.

well said cosmic_central.

Dear President Obama,

I am a clear thinking secular spiritualist. My favorite religions are Darwinian Evolution, the Big Bang Theory and anthropogenic global warming. Anyone who disagrees with my beliefs suffers from delusion and is a denier. Afterall, only an idiot would question "thousands of scientists" and "mountains of evidence". Now don't get me wrong, I am all for tolerance. I just want those people who disagree with my beliefs to just shut up and leave me alone so we can all get along. I'm really excited President Obama because although you call yourself a christian, it's pretty obvious you appear to be a rational spiritualist that really doesn't believe in a literal, eternal and living God. We all know how we really got here - by chance of nature. I'm sure there are thousands of scientific experiments that prove this. Abortion isn't killing; an unborn child is not a human being worth protecting; all rational people know this. I guess since you still smoke you really don't believe all that known-to-cause-cancer jibberish either. In summary you seem like the right leader for America; because like America, you seemingly are becoming more faithless. And it is this very faithlessness that we need to bridge the cultural divide and reunite this one nation, under nothing, with random processes and natural selection for all.

4thwatch,

It is proselytizing by christians and muslims that is the source of conflict. Religious conflicts always involve christians or muslims on at least one side. A spiritual system should be SECULAR so people use it to evolve spritually, not feel self-righteous or superior based on affiliations.

The confusion of spirituality with tribe-like identity leads to the conflicts we see around the world. The persecution and martyr complex are powerful tools used by organized religions to expand their power. I am not sure what is the goal of this violent expansion.

The persecution and superiority complexes are alive and well in you and spidermean2.

WHY NOT LET PEOPLE PRACTICE THEIR OWN RELIGIONS AND SPIRITUAL TRADITIONS? WORK ON MAKING YOURSELF A BETTER PERSON AND RESPECT OTHERS. THAT IS THE PHILOSOPHY OF VEDANTA.

ARE YOU WILLING TO MAKE THE SAME STATEMENT OF EQUALITY AND RESPECT OF OTHER RELIGIONS?

Vedanta – Hindu Philosophy of Unity? Tolerance? Plurality? Nonviolence?

In India’s Orissa state Hindus have been killing Christians for cause of their belief in Christ. Christians are continuously persecuted (beaten, churches and homes burned to the ground, ordered to convert to Hinduism, leave their homes, or die).
For a time there were over ten thousand Christians hiding in nearby forests or seeking refuge in state compounds. This violent oppression has gone on for some time.
Is this the Hindu way Deepak?
The Free Press either ignores or underreports this and other Christian persecution.

Free Masons – Rational? Spiritual?

This is what one must vow to belong to the Free Masons.
"Binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut, my tongue torn out by its roots, and buried in the rough sands of the sea at low water mark where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn oath and obligation as an entered apprentice Mason, so help me, God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same. Binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my left breast torn open, my heart plucked out and given as a prey to the wild beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my body severed in twain, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes, the ashes scattered to the four winds of heaven so that no more trace or remembrance may be had of so vile and perjured a wretch as I, should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn obligation as a Master Mason, so help me, God, and keep me steadfast in the due performance of the same."

To enter into that organization will a rational person utter such an irrational vow of suicide?

clearthinking1, you don't know what you are talking about. Nobody in his right mind would exchange India for America (the conservative Christian part).

What's lacking with the rest of the world is that type of Christianity. That's why the rest of the chaotic world (including India) lag behind in everything.

Don't just listen to what you have heard about how America was built. Make your own research.

I commend Mr. Chopra for using phrases like secular spirituality and rational spirituality. Sprituality and rationalism as well as secularism are not mutually exclusive. This spirit is embodied in the philosophy (Vedanta) underlying Hinduism. This philosophy of unity is why there has been tolerance, plurality, vegetarianism, nonviolence, yoga etc... emerging from India over thousands of years. Vedanta is a philosophy worth learning about, for those who are interested and have an open mind.

Spidermean2 states that conservative Christians built this land. This is not really true. Many of the founding fathers and other leaders were Free Masons and atheists. They could be described as rational and secular as well as spiritual. Prayer and meditation are universal and are secular.

Deepak wrote "rational Christians emerging from the Age of Enlightenment for whom a present-day Southern Baptist would have been totally foreign, if not anathema."

When doomsday come, that will be the start of rationality for all the idiots will be gone.

Please study carefully who were the people who fought for the First Ammendment in America. Who were the first settlers and established this nation for God?

Now compare this country to the rest of the world. Next, ask yourself why are you here and not in your native land or somewhere else.

Conservative Christianity built this land. They built it to be the land of the free so idiots like yourself can talk even in national papers.

"Nothing about secular spirituality is radical."

Amen.

As a secularist I resent having fundamentalist christian gatekeepers enforcing dogmatic loyalty oaths over their fellow citizens. Bush gave a huge amount of access to otherwise ordinary citizens based solely on their professed faith, and excluded many citizens because he did not care to understand their beliefs. So, boomerreader, your complaint rings more hollow than the deepest cave. You have enjoyed eight years of extremely preferential treatment at the hands of an overtly theocratic regime, and now you want to complain about how you are being "characterized". Please, do go back to your magic show. Maybe someone there is dumb enough to buy that pony.

As a right-wing Christian, I dislike being characterized by the political faction supposedly represents me. As a Christian, those secular principles have long been part of my belief system. I too am praying that the new President will work to implement them and change the course of our country.