People Don't Lose Faith, They Shift It

MRKAPIRO, your comments sadden me as for so long you put your faith in the pulpit and the words of the pastor or of "religion," yet you feel it let you done. This is an issue for many people in the world today who search for guidance and fufillment from anything yet feel constantly let down. I have to say I disagree, with all respect, to your comment that people should put faith in themselves. That ideology has never worked, nor have people ever found fufillment from a life purely based on narcasism. I hope that someday you will be able to find that thing that can bring you happiness, not through religion or the words of a pastor who is just as human as the rest of us, but through something much deeper.

Faith is no different from any other "commodity". If it works for you, making you happier, it is proven effective.

The problem with faith alone is that it is hollow and transient. Without practice and study, it has no stability and no commitment.

Chopra may provide an avenue for faith, but no practice and a minimum of study.

I have grown up in church all of my life and this article is true regarding how Faith has been shifted. I know how the Organized Religion works and how it is more politically minded, obsessed with Power and less into "Saving Souls".

I have heard for many years from the pulpit how to vote on election day and what opinions to have about certain politicians, movies, books, celebrities, countries and other cultures & religions.

Not only did I feel it was insulting to ones intelligence but it showed ignorance had NOTHING to do with what their Bible said at all.

So I left the church and never looked back. I did learn however so many things from the experience and I changed for the better. I have become more Spiritual and my Faith stronger than ever but not in any Organized Religion.

In my opinion, Leaders of the Organized Religions are no better than the "Heathens or Sinners" they put themselves so high above. Their greed for political power, control over their congregations and right wing followers, celebrity, money, and High Royal Position has become a 3 ring circus, not to mention a slap in the face of everyone on the planet including God.

I do hope that people reinvent themselves Spiritually and find eachother again and rediscover what life is all about again. I hope this Country does learn how to go back to the basics and find appreciation in all we have forgotten in life and in one another.

It is evident how the people have had renewed faith when Obama was elected President but most of all I hope we renew our faith in ourselves and not totally rely on our new President to bring us back on our feet. I hope it is realized that it is up to us to stand up and reclaim our lives and move on Mentally, Emotionally and Spiritually.

The empowerment is within US as individuals and families to make a CHANGE.

Not the Organized Religion, Not the President or Internet and Video Games.

WE have the power. The true Spirituality and gift of life is within US.
Not the Rush Limbaughs, Ted Haggarts, Dr. James Dobsons, Pat Robertsons, etc..

CECILG

You wrote, "Now concerning your reference to "what is actually true": Do you know what is actually true, and are you going to tell us, and are we likely to believe you?"

I know some things and there are other things that I believe. I know that God is Real and that God is a Being of Pure Love, also that God is a Trinity.

I do not believe that it is important whether anyone believes me or not but that it is important for me to speak.

Then you wrote, "Then there is your closing:
"Take care. Be ready."
Good warnings, but have you told us what we should be ready for? And will what you tell us be knowledge based or faith based?"

Actually, our Brother, Jesus, told us to be ready and I concur with Him on that, as for the take care, God cares for us and we are to care for each other.

There seem to be some that are much better followers of Jesus that don't believe that He is God-Incarnate, which He Is, than some of those that do believe He is God-Incarnate.

As I have said many times: It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows, our Brother, Jesus, has said this also, maybe in not the same words but He has. Knowing God's Name or believing in God is not some kind of magic, actually, as it says, it is a gift, what one does with that gift is important.

I have also said many times: God is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof, which is spoken of many times and is very simple, sometimes it almost seems that it is too simple for those that seem to want things complicated.

Also, this might make it harder for those that want a bunch of rules to follow rather than having to make decisions on living their lives.

I am not a know-it-all by any means nor do I have any desire to be a know-it-all but there are some things that I do know.

God has a Plan, which is unfolding before our very eyes, and His Plan is for All to be in His Kingdom. Only God knows all of the details, I sure don't.

We are responsible for what we do, whether or not we accept that responsibility is our choice. In other words, one can fool others, sometimes one can even fool themself but one cannot fool God.

The physical universe, which the world is part of, is quite fascinating, mind-boggling, one could say but there is more to the universe than just the physical and I am just talking about the created universe, there is also God.

As far as the "knowledge based or faith based", I used to believe in God but the way that I look at it is that God rewarded my belief by letting me know that He is Real.

God also chose me to speak and as it says, God chose me before creation, of course I sure didn't know it until I knew it. I must say that it came as quite a shock.

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Definitions and descriptions of what "faith" is are scattered all over the world's cultures. I suspect it is some mix of hope, desire, expectation, desire for truth, and whatever else one might want to throw into the mix.

What does seem to be happening is that people less and less often say, "I believe in..." and more and more are saying, "I believe that..." This is a radical shift from dogma to action...from noun to verb.

"I believe that" this shift will bear good fruit in the future.

Hey, Mr. "GoodFaith,"
Given the similar scandals in the Christian churches concerning hucksterism, prostitutes, and all the other things you allege against Doctor Chopra, even the charge of "paganism" since most of the different versions of Christianity assumes the others are some kind of cult, seems to me the only arguments you have left against the good doctor are his race and that he might be taking "your" money to India. Okay, we got your number.

Faith is what you need when what you believe makes no sense. If it made sense to believe in a magic skygod you wouldn't need faith.

It's because God is so unlikely that faith was invented - to make irrational ideas seem cool; when in reality faith is an outrage against reason.

Chopra, like many others - knows this, and is cleverly exploiting faith for all it's worth.
Can't say I blame him. There's a lot of money in it.

The NEPOTISM "CHOPRA FAMILY" say,

"People Don't Lose Faith, They Shift It"

Woe we; Now the Kids are involved.

DEEPAK, Using Psychology; Did you pay your fair share of tax's to Uncle Sam all these years?

The CHOPRA's are laughing all the way to the banks. And they're expatriating your swindled money to india for safe keeping & investments.

Note: Deepak Chopra has FAKE DEGREES From India!

http://blog.beliefnet.com//choprafamily/2009/02/karma.html

Continued: Deepak Chopra the Con Man from India & his Copartners therefrom:

The Christian Research Institute , another counter-cult organization, claims that
many of Chopra's techniques and beliefs are mythical religious practices which are
"physically and spiritually hazardous" to Christians:

"Would Chopra's patients continue with Maharishi Ayurveda if they knew that the real purpose behind the practice is to contact the essence of the Hindu God Brahman and to experientially recreate oneself as God through occult practices?...Finally, [Chopra's followers]should ask themselves, what did this kind of philosophy do for the occult sages of
India, or Indian culture itself? It is difficult to deny that the appalling
social conditions endemic to India...are to a significant degree the result
of its own paganism.

In the end, it is to such paganism that Dr. Choprawould have us devote our bodies and souls." (22)....

Point: Deepak Chopra , as if a religion, has invaded & infiltrated the Internet & with the help of his India/Hindu Secret Agents in America using Us to manipulate people ih High Places or with deep pockets!?? He Must be stopped on a Federal Level!

Continued: Chopra the mind controller 7 the gods player:

Labash was also sued by Chopra, along with two local lawyers and two private
investigators. That suit charges that the group conspired to extort $1 million from
Chopra in return for not publicizing the prostitute allegations.

Ultimately, the Weekly Standard agreed to a settlement because of witness unreliability and potentially unethical acts committed by Labash. The settlement also called for an abject apology for publishing a "false and misleading" cover story. (20)

In the June 23, 1997 issue, the magazine wrote, "We regret any harm that may
unjustly have been done to Dr. Chopra's reputation...we now believe that the
general tone of our article was unfair."

Chopra has also come under attack by evangelical Christians, the so-called,
"counter- cultists." The Watchman Fellowship criticizes Chopra on these grounds:

"'Alternative' health practices are of concern because many of those
practices make claims of diagnostic capabilities, or for treatment, which
are unsubstantiated by reasonable means as effective and beneficial. In contrast, 'conventional' medicine is based on scientific standards established by objective evidence for effectiveness, safety, and benefit...Christians understand that the world is a creation of God. This physical world and its components operate in systematic, orderly ways which can be discovered. Practically speaking, a basic system of how to
discover things about the physical world and the laws that govern it has been developed over many years." (21)

Continued: Deepak Chopra's Wrong Path:

Perhaps the most explosive controversy came as a result of a scathing article
written by Matt Labash in the July 1, 1996 edition of the Weekly Standard. Labash
reported allegations that Dr. Chopra had frequented a prostitute, committed PLAGIRISM (he did it again in the Third Jesus & his recent book 2009), and sold mail-order herbal remedies that contained high levels of rodent hairs. In this article titled, "Leader of the Deepak," Labash dubbed Chopra a "huckster" and "Hindu televangelist."

The magazine claimed it could back up its story's facts with lie-detector tests and
handwriting analysis. In fact, to back up on-the-record comments from the prostitute,
Judy Bangert, the Weekly Standard obtained receipts from her escort serice which
contained Chopra's American Express card imprint and signature. The Standard
also had a copy of the bill from the hotel where three trysts allegedly occurred in
1991.

Chopra pursued a $35 million libel suit against the Standard and Labash. As the suit progressed, it was clear that the magazine's defense was weakening. Bangert
recanted her story in an affadavit about six months into the litigation: "Dr. Deepak
Chopra did not pay me for sex and did not have sex with me." (19) She was
subsequently dropped from the defense team in the libel suit.

Deepak's Center: Issues and Controversies Exposed:

Deepak Chopra is controversial to many people. Many, including the American
Medical Association, have labeled him a charlatan, becoming rich because of "this
new-age mumbo- jumbo." Stephen Barrett, M.D., author of "A Few Thoughts on
Ayurvedic Mumbo Jumbo" argues that "As far as I can tell, Chopra has neither
published nor personally conducted any scientific studies testing whether the
methods he promotes help people become healthier or live longer." In 1994, Forbes
magazine attacked him as "the latest in a line of gurus who have prospered by
blending pop-science, pop-psychology, and pop-Hinduism."

Chopra was at the center of controversy in 1991, when JAMA (Journal of American
Medical Association) published an article entitled,"Letter From New Delhi: Maharishi
Ayur-Veda: Modern Insights into Ancient Medicine," by Hari Sharma, Brihaspati Dev
Triguna, and Chopra. The medical community responded negatively to the article by
citing the lack of evidence concerning the beneficial effects of transendental
meditation. Again, they pointed to the lack of empirical evidence.

"When asked if hewould agree to a test of these claims made in JAMA using a blinded protocol, Chopra declined on the grounds that a blinded experiment would "eliminate the most crucial component of the experiment, which is consciousness." (17) The medical community was not amused.(18)

KJohnson, you said:

'It's always difficult to read Chopra's sanctimonious pronouncements on living a spiritual life, since he made his fortune writing and selling books that offer spiritual pablum with only the barest nutritional value.'

And I have to agree with your observation as regards purveyors of spiritual truth.

The dharma regarding the dissemination of real truth prevents authentic spiritual mentors from profiting through their efforts....this is a timeless 'spiritual' law. They are required to make their living through other means.

Clever New Age niche authors abound because they've got the lingo down pat.....rarely will we ever get an invite to their palatial Mulholland Drive estates or the summer home in the south of France.

Was there ever a more earth-bound spirit than a highly successful New Age guru??

Very doubtful......

Greetings, THOMASBAUM,

You raised this question for Mr. Chopra: "Do you really think that the "quantity" of belief in something has anything at all to do with what is actually true?"

An excellent question, and for me, the answer is no. In fact, it seems to me that there is a high positive correlation between the "quantity" of a belief and its lack of any data supporting its truth.

Now concerning your reference to "what is actually true": Do you know what is actually true, and are you going to tell us, and are we likely to believe you?

Then there is your closing:

"Take care. Be ready."

Good warnings, but have you told us what we should be ready for? And will what you tell us be knowledge based or faith based?

Thank you for your thoughtful posts. Keep 'em comming. Respectfully...Cecil

Greetings, ASHELEYBONE. I liked your post and agree with most of it. However, you said, "I don't have faith. I have values. I use reason and evidence to figure out the best approaches for seeing these values realized." This statement suggests that in fact you do have faith in something, namely, reason and evidence. And I say, Good for you and would that more folk had that faith.

I think Mr. Chopra was somewhat correct in arguing that people do not loose faith, but often shift their faith. Is it not true that all of our statements of fact, all of our notions about reality are grounded in a belief in something? And is it not true that people sometimes change what they believe? On this last point I hope I am right, and I hope that many are moving toward a spirituality (whatever that is) that rests on virtuous behavior, loving care of others, and a commitment to partnership with that which is truly ultimate.

DEEPAK CHOPRA

You wrote, "We are in a time of spiritual flux, and if the churches are the losers in that shift, they might want to pay more attention to the winners,"

Do you really think that the "quantity" of belief in something has anything at all to do with what is actually true?

Take care, be ready.

Sincerely, Thomas Paul Moses Baum.

Deepak, you're in denial. More and more of us simply don't believe in the invisible skygod. Check the polls. In Britain and the rest of Europe it's even worst. Very few attend churches.
Many churches have long been turned into Bingo Halls. God is not taken seriously in conversation or anywhere else.
The growing assumption is that God is just a fantasy passed on down to us by our ignorant and highly superstitious ancestors, who had no other clue about existence, and could only scratch their heads and say, "A god must have done all this."
We can do better than that. We now have science and believe only that which makes sense. And gods and religions make no sense.

There is more going on than just a "shifting of faith." I understand from human development psychology that throughout one's lifetime faith can develop from that based on fear and punishment (faith in the anthropomorphic God sitting in judgment) toward a post-conventional faith in an inexplicable, unitive higher power. Highly educated Americans, including me, have not felt a faith in the mainstream religion's God for years because of the disconnect with reason. Recently I've come to understand my strong innate faith for what it is, thanks to my exposure to eastern religious ideas and philosophy. Now I am comfortable saying that I have faith even without a church affiliation.

"Outside organized religion an enormous subculture has grown under the rubric of the New Age. The label wore out long ago."

It's always difficult to read Chopra's sanctimonious pronouncements on living a spiritual life, since he made his fortune writing and selling books that offer spiritual pablum with only the barest nutritional value.

And he's right: the "New Age" label has become a cultural cliche. He would know this; it's probably affected his book sales.

But, my friends, not to worry. If anyone can spot a marketing trend in the making, it's Chopra. He's clearly moved on to more fertile pastures (WaPo?), from which he can continue purveying his vapid and insincere advice on life.

But be warned. You're getting his advice for free only because he hasn't yet figured out how to charge for it through "On Faith."

Mr. Chopra, you said, "America is a secular society, based on faith in democracy, technology, opportunity, the law, and above all, science."

For secular people, such as myself, I think you're dead wrong on this point.

I don't have faith in democracy. Historical evidence shows us that of all known forms of government, democracy is most likely to produce the kind of equitable and prosperous society I want to live in.

I don't have faith in technology. Technology is one means of addressing problems and enhancing our lives. It's not a panacea, and we must be careful what technologies we embrace. They can and have caused great harm when used unwisely.

I don't have faith in the law. Historical evidence shows that civil societies, governed by the rule of law, are more likely to be equitable and prosperous.

I don't have faith in science. Historical evidence shows that it is an effective means of finding truth about the world we live in.

I don't have faith. I have values. I use reason and evidence to figure out the best approaches for seeing these values realized. Your suggestion, that we have faith in good things (like democracy and Vitamin C), and not have faith in bad things (like war and transfats) sound great, but then you are just back to dogma. A more sound approach is to champion critical thinking and evidence-based problem solving. Unlike dogma, this approach allows at least a possibility of progress.

Excellent observation by the author!

To put it more bluntly, the decline of organized religions allow true charity and compassion to flower.