What is Prayer Meant to Be?

it's great to be able to make up whatever god-qualities one wants without being constrained by scripture. and, no doubt, the kinds of gods people make up nowadays (post enlightenment) are much nicer than the gods the ancients made up.

Hello US-conscience,

Your judgment that only 1% of the essays or comments here are posted by people with faith is dramatic and harsh, I believe. One does not need to be conventional or fundamentalist to have faith, US! "Faith" is not owned by any religion or belief system, silly! And not owned by orthodoxy while non-orthodox and evolved beliefs lack it! Faith is non-denominational...

I have a great deal of faith, always have since I was a kid. I just do not trust or continue to believe in the religious conditioning that I was taught and brought up with. My belief in God, in a Divine and Omniscient Being, or Causal Awareness, is not less present of strong than when I was young. I am more certain of it than ever. I just have less interest in the man made writings and rules and conditions and dramas around the imagined and postulated particulars of God and God worship.

Humans are very judgmental and hypercritical. God is not. Leastwise, not in my Book.

US-conscience,
you know you're right. i wouldn't say 99%, but i know what you mean. i can't help my beliefs, and i've come to them through many years of intro (and extro) spection. i wish there were more of you believers here to make it more interesting.

Here is irony for you : a place called "On Faith" - and the column's are written by people without any and 99% of all the comments are from people without any - oh well...I guess its just a reflection of the state of our nation.

DanB4,
was it long? this system seems to only accept post under a certain length.

Justillthen - my response post (sent twice now) has not yet been published. Don't know why.

A National Day of Prayer...what's the point?? Millions of people praying...law of averages suggests that a few will get what they want...so therefore god exists??
How simplistic and foolish.

This sort of event attracts the most chronic of evangelical self-promoters.

Hello DanB,

I am confused. The last post that you said was in response to mine was the second post of the string, and before I had made a comment. I only recognize you on your site name, so do not see any response by you to my comment to you.

Hello Paganplace,

Your post on consciousness was a bit disjointed and not so easy to follow, though I get the general drift. I am not sure that consciousness itself is scary to 'some' people as much as the concept of consciousness spread to and shared by all living forms, not to mention forms that are not classically termed living but that could be 'conscious' or potentially self-aware and so be defined as living.

What may be frightening is that all life is divinely sourced. One of the ego functions that is served by exclusive religions is just that, exclusivity. Only the select ones can enjoy the benefits of divine creation into eternity. Not all humans will enjoy it, and the ones that do not tow the line of that dogma will live in Hell, and such beliefs. So one can be 'special' and 'chosen' to realize eternal salvation...

If not all humans make it into the special spheres, then animals certainly are far inferior and useful only as resources for human benefit. Plants all the more. Rock wind water fire, elements to use as desired. Manifest Destiny.

The Book allows them to believe that their consciousness, and self-identity, will survive death and that their awareness will be ongoing.

I do not think that consciousness itself is frightening, but the loss of it. That in the end of life everything goes black...

Justtillthen, my last post was intended as a response to yours. I forgot to mention that.

Anyway, any time someone wants to make a national show of their praying, they want something, and it ain't from 'God' that they want it.

That's plain enough.

Ah, here's some of the meat of the matter this board is supposed to be about. I think it's making certain types restless. :)

'Consciousness' seems to be a scary term to many: they're taught that thiers is aome scary thing dancing on a precipice of some terrible suffering.... ..the idea that we and everything else, is somehow... conscious... *scares* them. Scars them, too, I think.... terrifies them into thinking that maybe all that there is is what is in our heads, and therefore that if we don't *cling* to 'belief,' not only would we be 'lost,' but that this would be bad. Still constitute ourselves as we know us in some terrible torment.

'Consciousness' is a tricky term, one which seems to cause people to flail pretty hard.

The idea seems to violate some sense of 'boundaries' ..even as such boundaries hurt.

Better to think, for some, I guess, that a book offers protection and an ability to go on 'offense,' than to really feel what's more natural: that everything's conscious, in some way.

Consciousness, where we live, and intent, what we 'do' in it... Not, I think, the way in which most of the people most demanding prayer, specifically a *show* of prayer, really see it, I'd wager.

Gods know how they expect to hear *anything* quoting all those book passages, anyway. :) But really, I think the most of it is for *us.*

Oftimes, I think that most of what *I* pray about is just getting it out of the way so Lady can give a nudge. After, perhaps, not before, I've thought something through best I can.

I think if we have national days of prayer, well, actually, I didn't seem to notice anyone being particularly-refllective last Thursday, but public piety's long been about something else than that.

As for those who bring up the caste system every time a Hindu speaks, here... Dr. Chopra's an American.

And besides, if I'm not much mistaken, there are more Dalits in national office in India than America has not-Christians-or-Jews, or people not-overtly straight, or, if you wanna talk Congress, black people... combined.

Not that it's grand old time for everyone over there, queers most especially, but, do the good Doctor the service of making half an attempt to stay on topic?

TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2, '

Your hatred and judgment of Obama is the most clear thing in your rant. That and the assumptions that you jump to regarding Obama's beliefs and reasons for doing what he is doing. Otherwise it was just reiteration of myth and story as if they were known truths of life. They are not.

Creation by God, Satans fall for Eternity, Adam and Eve's fall, (I assume this all happened mas o menos 6,000 years ago, right?), are myth and story. Your hatefulness of Obama, and deluded perception, is the real pain and sadness. It is disturbing that people like you exist, if your post is an accurate picture of your mind.

I pray that you find peace with what is, and compassion for it, as for yourself.

Hello DanB4,

I have a bit of a different take on Depak's opinion here than you do, and on the conservative perspective. Much of what is considered 'conservative' is based on views that are popularly seen as traditional, but is so because of positions that have been developed over a long time and committed to religious conditioning but that are not necessarily (T)ruth. Held as such by adherents to the conservative movement, but adherents always have reason to justify their own beliefs. We all do.

Mr. Chopra challenges traditionally held conditioning, and I find the challenges worth contemplation.

Particularly interesting is his perspective on what prayer is, don't you think? Consciousness speaking to consciousness. You may call that narcissistic, but it makes great sense and is thought provoking. Beats the hell out of the idea that our prayerful requests are answered or rejected, for mysterious reasons, by an all-Knowing Entity.

Prayer and the display of faith in elected office not only has followed the Nixon model, but was accelerated toward the much more judgmental and exclusive conservative model by G W Bush. This was not a step in a positive direction in my opinion, and the outcome of the Bush Presidency was a study in choices in a negative direction. A disaster. Obama is a breath of fresh air in comparison. I am thankful that we don't have another Evangelical Theater Breakfast. Let us be a nation of inclusiveness again.

"Deepak needs to comes to terms with the fact that he cannot dispassionately evalute the hearts of conservatives or their paradigm for life."

We all have our judgments and evaluation of those holding contrary positions to our own. Conservatives are highly judgmental of the liberal positions. They use the term liberal as a epithet.

First World Conference on Untouchability, London, June 6-10, 2009

http://www.iheu.org/world-conference-on-untouchability

First World Conference on Untouchability

http://www.iheu.org/trackback/3225

TTWSYFAMDGGAHJMJ2,
are you afraid that if "gays" are allowed to marry, "straight" people around the country will become gay? how is gay marriage any knid of threat to you? or even, how is it any of your business? if the religious want to "preserve the sanctity of marriage" they should turn down all the governmental benefits associated with it. are you afraid if there are more (openly) gay people in society you might "catch it"?

IN REPLY T (IRT)
DEEPAK CHOPRA
MAY 7, 2009
NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER

IRT:
“Thursday is National Day of Prayer, as mandated by Congress. What should President Obama do? Should he follow tradition and sign a ceremonial proclamation? Should he follow President George W. Bush's practice of hosting a formal White House event? Should he ignore it completely?"

ANS:
“A fool may be known by six things: anger, without cause; speech, without profit; change, without progress; inquiry, without object; putting trust in a stranger, and mistaking foes for friends”

It is written; “I am the Lord your God, thou shalt not have false God’s before me; not take the name of the Lord in vain; remember the Lord’s day, and give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s and unto God what is God’s.”

God created man and man can do nothing without God permitting man to do so. Man's very existence depends on God. Society's very existence depends on God's laws.

Satan, in all arrogance, though he was more powerful than the God who created him. It is written that Satan and his minions fell from the sky like a bolt of lightening into a pit of eternal fire that will remain their abode forever.

Adam, tried the same thing with Eve, and here we are now. Adam lost most every good thing God had given him.

Anyone, especially Obama who thinks God is irrelevant renders himself irrelevant.

Apparently, God, the God who created all things, even Obama, means little to him. Obama’s duplicity is explicit; his words are shallow and meaningless. He is explicitly reckless and arrogant. If anyone needs prayers, it is the jejune Obama.

Obama’s snubbing of the Prayer Breakfast is the snubbing of his dependence on God and the height of his overbearing pride evidenced by his rash aleatory judgments and policies made without forethought. Obama’s purported policies do not match his rhetoric. Of course, that is in keeping with the duplicitous Dem House and Senate leaders who support him.

His disrespect for God and his laws are patent. He personifies the Messenger for the Culture of Death, a death to the unborn, the embryo, to conscience, and self-worth.

Human dignity and the sacredness of life are of little matter to him. His incompatible and unenlightened views on Abortion, Embryonic Stem Cell Research, and his invasion of conscience, privacy, and traditions are fraught with reckless and rash naivety, and show little prudence or forethought.

On the one hand, Obama is purported to be against Gay Marriage and on the other hand, it is reported he will support the House and Senate bills on Gay Marriage. He is purported to have said that he will sign the Gay Hate legislature as well.

Jesus also said" Their Hearts are far from me"
That being said,I prefer the Cross Country Run. There is never enough purification of the body for me!
Birds, Deer, The Butterfly, etc.

"Animal Nature is imprinted in our genes and therefore in our brain"

James David Whitall II

Deepak,

The Day of the Dalit has come. The millions enlaved in India have after thousands of years been heard. Although not by you.

Worldwide outrage is on the way.

First “World Conference on Untouchability” to be held in London, 9-10 June 2009

u.org/first-%E2%80%9Cworld-conference-untouchability%E2%80%9D-be-held-london-9-10-june-2009

Deepak,

As I've been trying to tell you for quite some time, worldwide outrage at the tens of millions of enslaved Dalit is just around the corner. If you don't cash in soon, you may have to sell one of your country homes.

First “World Conference on Untouchability” to be held in London, 9-10 June 2009

u.org/first-%E2%80%9Cworld-conference-untouchability%E2%80%9D-be-held-london-9-10-june-2009

Although he's been a spiritual touchstone of mine for a very long time, I'm done with Deepak. Whatever (big T) Truths he has to offer are just not worth listening to him belittle everything conservative.

In a piece on the value of PRAYER, for God's sake, he throws in the self-deluded, and ultimately narcissistic, judgment that "[i]n the Bush era, public or group prayer followed the pattern set down by Nixon in the Sixties: it was a validation of conservative values. God was for law and order and against hippies. God was against anyone who didn't believe in him, a ridiculous position when you think about it."

Deepak needs to comes to terms with the fact that he cannot dispassionately evalute the hearts of conservatives or their paradigm for life. I truly believe that his brain synapses just don't allow it.

Deepak, my former guru, please sit out the political tussle between "progressives" (the history of which you ought to investigate) and conservatives. Your extraordinary insights into the spiritual lives of man are undermined by your silly, unfounded view of our country's politic.

deepak, you asked,
"The only mystery -- and it's a huge one -- is how to judge when God answers and when he doesn't."

there's a great website that answers that question called "why won't god heal amputees?" http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god5.htm

here's a video too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ&feature=related

it's unbelievably funny, but poignant too.