Yoga belongs to all of us

I don't know what was so wrong if Aseem Shukla complaint that Yoga's affiliation with Hinduism is not acknowledged as much as it deserves. I don't know from where Dr. Chopra got this idea that Hinduism and Sanatana Dharma are any different. The group which is still following old vedic traditions and philosophy (Sanatana Dharma) is not labeled as Hinduism.

Dr. Chopra for some unknown reasons is trying to cut off any affiliation Hinduism has with Yoga. The truth is historians have already found tons of hindu scriptures providing commentary on Yoga in great details. If Yoga wasn't related to Hinduism, you would have found Jain, Ajivikas, tribal Indians and Buddhist giving equal stress on it. But we have enough evidences to believe Yoga was mainly preserved through Hinduism/Sanatana Dharma.

Perhaps, in all his criticism, there lies some commercial interest of Dr. Chopra. I visited his website to find that he is into the business of selling spirituality. He has designed all these costly spirituality products but when it comes to recognizing the source, he shies away. Apparently Dr. Chopra is trying to keep his customers happy who don't want to acknowledge any relationship between Yoga and Hinduism.

I just accidentally stubmbled on this interesting debate on the source of Yoga. As a Hindu, I am always aware that Yoga is the fundamental of Hindu faith. So I do not know why we are debating on such a basic fact. Bhakti Yoga, Karma Yoga and Jnana Yoga are the three paths that a Hindu choose in his/her journey towards self-realization. So, I am kind of surprised by Dr Chopra's forceful denial about the Hindu source of Yoga. Also, Dr Chopra talk about Yoga as more ancient than Hinduism....well, if so, then we may have to consider Shiva, the first Yogi as a non-Hindu?!

Chopraji
be glad you were born in a Hindu family so can do ,say and talk anything.Use this life properly If born next time in islamic family god knows what you will be doing .

Dee Chops should Heal, not Hurt!

How can you debate with a person who is full of Ego! He said recent earthquake that rocked California was caused by his meditation. This guy should be sued with a lawsuit for all the property damage caused. Organization of physicians such as American Medical Association ought to look into such quacks and consider disciplinary action

http://www.journalism.co.uk/66/articles/538164.php

Can you debate with a person who blames hindus even if the crow spits on a peddler.

Deepak Blames America

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122809544395968075.html

In his CNN interview, he was no less clear. What happened in Mumbai, he told the interviewer, was a product of the U.S. war on terrorism, that "our policies, our foreign policies" had alienated the Muslim population, that we had "gone after the wrong people" and inflamed moderates. And "that inflammation then gets organized and appears as this disaster in Bombay."

@DHARMA_S

You say "Happily, I am not a Hindu and can practice Yoga without this major obstacle."

No wonder you did not understand the essence of Yoga. Enjoy your "My God is True, others are false; If you don't believe My God, you will go to hell"...and you think you can practice Yoga with such racist mindset.

The comments below leave me no choice but to reevaluate the general good nature and tolerance of my Hindu friends. Hinduism I see, is not immune to the petty arguments and fundamentalism that has marked other major religions. Now I have learned something.

Happily, I am not a Hindu and can practice Yoga without this major obstacle.

@ SUSHILMAHAPATRA

Thank you for your erudite comments and disclosures about this salesman who is repeatedly trying to protect his financial interests. His hit and run tactics may confuse westerners with shallow knowledge of Yoga but Indic practitioners know how shallow his premise is.

@DHARMA_S

--"who fail to see any benefit in helping people with this ancient wisdom"

Where did you get this idea? Aseem clearly stated the obvious - "All of this is not to contend, of course, that yoga is only for Hindus. Yoga is Hinduism's gift to humanity to follow, practice and experience."

--Deepak has helped countless people.

Yes, by delinking Hinduism and packaging it as his own while lining his pockets with millions? who are you in his corporate empire?

-- Can you make that same claim?

No! No Sanatana dharmi should ever stoop to do that and those who need to be exposed as it is happening now.

-- If these comments represent the attitudes of all Hindus It's no wonder people are distancing themselves from Hinduism.

Really, which evangelical group are you part of? Time to go back and read Lisa Millers essay - http://www.newsweek.com/id/212155

-- There is no room for negativity today. We need solutions. What's yours?

Negativity is all around - delinking, disparaging, stereotyping Hindus and Hinduism. Aseem is making a small attempt at providing a solution. For truth seekers there's no better way but steadfastly hold and cherish that truth. Is that yours?

Chopra knows which side the bread is buttered. For all his pontifications about universality of Yoga, the fact remains that although he has written books focussing on Buddha and Christ, he is too ashamed to write a book on Vedic Sages or Krishna because they are regarded highly by Hindus.

It seems somewhat hypocritical of Chopra to tell Hindus (whose ancestors discovered Yoga) what our faith means when just a few years ago, he reached an out of court settlement with a prostitute who produced a credit card voucher signed by Chopra in lieu of her services!

And his Yoga is meant only for the Hollywood type, ultra rich and page 3 celebrities. Whereas the true Yoga, unpatented and Hindu, is accessible to all, including the poorest.

Patanjali was only a late formulator of Yoga. Hindu tradition itself states that Hiranyagarbha, whose origins are shrouded in antiquity, founded Yoga. Only 2 verses of his work survive as quotations.

To dissociate Sanatana Dharma from Hinduism and Vedic scriptures from these two is semantic jugglery. Hinduism is like a river. The Vedas are its well-springs. Just as the water from the source of a river continues to flow downstream even after it is augmented by numerous other tributaries, we do not say that the well-spring water is separate from the downstream river. In a similar way, the Vedas are the most ancient textual bases of Hinduism and it is quite mischievous to separate the Vedic spiritual tradition from Hinduism. The former is a part of the latter, chronologically and in every other way.

Chopra gives the false analogy that just as Christians cannot claim to invent prayer, Hindus cannot claim to have discovered the Yoga. The first claim is false because prayer existed before Christianity. The second is not false because Yoga existed as a component in ancient Hinduism, Vedic or whatever name you want to give it. Yoga is the heart of Hinduism, and it is correctly and completely understood only within its Hindu context. Just see the grotesque varieties of Yoga being peddled by fake Gurus in the West who have stripped Yoga of its Hindu moorings.

Chopra does not have a single word to say against the numerous Yoga teachers who patent their 'universal' yoga techniques, but has the gall to call Hindus as fundamentalists when they are merely claiming what was truly discovered by them. Why does he not ask them to stop patenting these spiritual tecniques? What a hypocrite! Perhaps he does not wish to antagonize these money'd and power Yoga 'teachers' in the US for the fear of losing his own financial interests.

What is the incorporation date for Hinduism? and that of Yoga? Where was it incorporated ? Delaware? I think we are missing the point - Yoga is a path to do some thing. A path always lead to some thing. I can not understand how Yoga predates a religion. Are you saying that a previous religion incorporation changed its name to Hinduism ? Standard Oil to Exxon like?

Sorry TARLE_SUBBA if I was not clear in my reference to being pathetic. I was referring to you and all the other people who fail to see any benefit in helping people with this ancient wisdom. Deepak has helped countless people. Can you make that same claim? If these comments represent the attitudes of all Hindus It's no wonder people are distancing themselves from Hinduism. There is no room for negativity today. We need solutions. What's yours?

ClearThinking1,

Thank you for clear analysis. Especially the lines below. If Truth seekers don't seek truth charlatans like chopra will carry on!

"I'm sure that our readers have zero interest in the scholarly niceties of this subject."

WRONG. MOST READERS FIND THIS STATEMENT PATRONIZING AND OFFENSIVE.

"Living souls are prisoners
of the joys and woes of existence
to liberate them from nature's magic
the knowledge of the brahman is necessary.
It is hard to acquire, this knowledge,
but it is the only boat,
to carry one over the river of Samsara
A thousand are the paths that lead there,
Yet it is one, in truth,
knowledge, the supreme refuge!

- Yoga Upanishad

http://hinduwisdom.info/Yoga_and_Hindu_Philosophy.htm

dharma_s says: "you guys are pathetic" -- referring to whom, we don't know. and dharma_s addresses mr. chopra as "deepak" -- seeming to claim a personal friendship or fellowship with chopra-ji. a rhetorical analysis of the short posting by dharma_s shows the following: dharma_s is deficient in reasoning skills; resorts to scolding because s/he is emotional; and has limited/poor knowledge about yoga and hinduism. dharma_s is not much of a master's masseuse, and i don't believe mr. chopra will find any better defenders of his cockamamy claims... we will, however, wait for the snake-oil salesman to go on larry king and take on "fundamentalist hindus". anyone wants to take a bet?

You guys are pathetic. Thank you Deepak for seeing beyond the terms that divide us and offering timeless wisdom to all people without attaching a label to it. With all the problems in the world you want to argue over who owns yoga?! Please return to your meditation cushions and think about what you are saying.

Mr. Chopra,
In this article, you are condescending! You are filled with ahankara (Skt: self / ego). You still maintain the word fundamentalist. You say, "I'm happy that Prof. Shukla isn't the ‘most strident of fundamentalists’...I forgive the potshots taken at me".

Weren’t you the one who took the first shot, rather potshot? – Name calling.

First the esteemed Dr. Chopra states, "The fact that yoga belongs to the whole world represents a great gift from Hinduism, not a loss..." and within a few sentences, writes that neither yoga or the Vedas, for that matter, are Hindu.

Excuse me?! Did the quakes caused by Dr. Chopra's deep meditation earlier this month stir up more in his head than the earth in some faraway land?

Indeed "Hinduism" was not a self-referential term initially nor did it exist at the time of the ancient rishis, but that does not change the fact that Sanatana Dharma, which is self-referential, and Hinduism are one in the same. From time immemorial to today, both terms are understood to refer to a way of life which rests on the foundation of certain, core beliefs including karma, dharma, reincarnation, the belief that each one of us are vessels for the eternal soul/Divine, and the belief that the Divine may manifest and be worshiped in infinite forms or no form (leading to an paralleled diversity in Hindu belief and practice that is the furthest thing from "one-eyed.")

Have Hindus digressed in their behavior from these core teachings at times? Absolutely -- to err is human, as they say. But that does not change the fact that these eternal teachings are Hindu heritage and continue to inspire reflection, introspection and change for over 1 billion worldwide.

mr. chopra is full of himself, and his two pieces in response to dr. shukla makes that evident. he does not have the grace or the wisdom to speak gently. vatsyayana said, "vices connected with speech include mithya (uttering falsehood), parusha (caustic talk), soochanaa (calumny), and asambaddha (absurd talk). virtues connected with speech include satya (veracity or truthfulness), hita vaachana (talking with good intention), priya vaachana (gentle talk), and svaadhyaaya (recitation of scriptures)." chopra, in his media appearances bends backwards and rationalizes dastardly terrorist attacks but now bares his fangs against dr. shukla for nothing more than saying that we should acknowledge yoga as part of hinduism. this man is a poor example of a yogi... and i wonder whether he listens to anyone but himself. pretender, begone!

You are really pathetic, Chopra. Perhaps you missed the point Dr. Shukla made that in the modern world, most people associate the term "Hinduism" with what was originally "Santana Dharma." Why must you consistently bash and degrade the faith that has made your millions?

I must repeat, Chopra, yoga DID originate from Hinduism. As did you and all of the philosophy you expound in your countless books. Own up to it already.

Dee Chops, you should take a good look at the mirror to see the farce you have become.

[[I must repeat, that yoga did not originate in Hinduism. This isn't a debating point, since no one to my knowledge has ever claimed that Hinduism came before yoga.]] Your knowledge is deficient, which is why we are trying to shore it up. You can't be reading much or talking to knowledgeable if this is all you know. In any case this is not a debate that takes your knowledge for granted, we are questioning your ignorance, so prepare to be educated.

And your deep involvement in awakening Vedanta and Advaita? That's a self-serving statement if any. Dee Chops there have been before you Svami Vivekananda, the Vedanta Society, Parahamsa Yogananda and the Yogoda Satsang, Svami Satchitananda, Arsha Vidya Gurukulam, just to name a few. Your pitiful contribution to Vedanta and Advaita (off which you have made boatloads of money) isn't worth the price of admission to one of these fine institutions. You are of course free to vend your claims and make your money, just as we are free to call out your empty self-serving nonsense. You aren't the first Hindu camp leader to have tried to shake off your heritage. Rajneesh and AC Prabhupada before that tried doing it. Rajneesh ultimately returned to India to refuge and Prabhupada's ISKCON which tried to shake itself free of its Gaudiya Vaishnava and Hindu roots, today is sustained across the US and many parts of the world by the patronage of Hindus at large. It is the nature of Hinduism and Hindus to argue and question anything claiming canonical status. Which is why pop-philosophy purveyors of Hindu methods can never conduct their trade undisturbed.

Chopra, You wrote:
"Nobody is stopping Hindus from claiming yoga as their own."
AND YOU WROTE:
"Yoga did not originate in Hinduism."

Why did you write these statements if not as an attempt to delink Yoga from Hinduism.
What Yoga are you talking about? Hatha, Patanjali's, Bhakti, Karma, Raja, Gyana Yoga? You haven't even defined your terms prior to making controversial claims.
You never say when Yoga started or when Hinduism started in your opinion. Yet you make bold statements about what came first. You accept "sanatana", which means eternal, yet you claim to know the date when Hinduism started. If you keep this up, all the claims that you are just New Age fluff will become the reasonable narrative. You seem to be all style (red shoes & glasses) and no substance. All hat & no cattle. I've read "your" book on golf, and I play tournament golf. I am willing to bet you don't know much about golf either. Just like Jasper misread Tiger.

In contrast to you, a decent man like Dr. Shukla wrote in his article:
"All of this is not to contend, of course, that yoga is only for Hindus. Yoga is Hinduism's gift to humanity to follow, practice and experience. No one can ever be asked to leave their own religion or reject their own theologies or to convert to a pluralistic tradition such as Hinduism. Yoga asks only that one follow the path of yoga for it will necessarily lead one to become a better Hindu, Christian, Jew or Muslim. Yoga, like its Hindu origins, does not offer ways to believe in God; it offer ways to know God."
Nice, huh?

JUST A FEW EXAMPLES OF CHOPRA'S INCOHERENT MENTAL GYMNASTICS AND RHETORICAL CONTORTIONS:

"I'm sure that our readers have zero interest in the scholarly niceties of this subject."
WRONG. MOST READERS FIND THIS STATEMENT PATRONIZING AND OFFENSIVE.

"Yoga is a practice rooted in consciousness, not proprietary religion."
NOW YOU'VE DISINGENUOUSLY PUT IN A CURIOUS PHRASE "PROPRIETARY RELIGION". DR. SHUKLA NEVER CLAIMED EXCLUSIVE RIGHTS TO YOGA. IN FACT, HE UNEQUIVOCALLY STATED THAT ALL SHOULD SHARE IT.

"The great seers of India didn't simply precede the term "Hindu" . They preceded dogmatic religion itself."
SO NOW YOU ARE TRYING THE LABEL "DOGMATIC RELIGION" FOR HINDUISM? NOBODY BELIEVES HINDUISM IS DOGMATIC. TRY PLURALISTIC, TOLERANT, DIVERSE, ACCEPTING.

Hinduism falls short of its ideal of Sanatana Dharma. It becomes tribal, self-enclosed, and one-eyed about being the only way to God. HINDUISM... THE "ONLY WAY TO GOD"? ANY EDUCATED MAN SHOULD KNOW THE FAMOUS RIG VEDA QUOTE "GOD IS ONE, THE SAGES CALL IT BY MANY NAMES". (EMBARASSED?)

"Prof. Shukla isn't the most strident of fundamentalists...& seems rather bemused where most of his kind are zealous."
MOST OF "HIS KIND"? WHAT KIND? STRIDENT FUNDAMENTALIST SOUNDS LIKE A POTSHOT AND A BIGOTED AND UNFAIR STATEMENT, DOES IT NOT?

"I forgive the potshots taken at me."
SEE ABOVE. WHO'S TAKING POTSHOTS? TALK ABOUT HYPOCRISY!

Whether he calls it Hinduism or I call it Vedic knowledge, I believe ultimately we are both referencing the same body of universal knowledge.
THEN STOP YOUR SILLY RHETORICAL GAME! IF HINDUISM, VEDIC KNOWLEDGE, YOGA ARE ARE THE "SAME BODY OF UNIVERSAL KNOWLEDGE", THEN SHUT UP & STOP WASTING OUR TIME.

CHOPRA, STOP EMBARASSING YOURSELF!

The word "Hinduism" is universally accepted as meaning Sanatan Dharma when writing or speaking in English.
It is becoming difficult to watch your mental gymnastics in trying to redefine Hinduism to suit your rhetorical needs.

You did a lot of good in bringing Hindu philosophy and methods to the West.
You did some damage by not acknowledging the source of "your" ideas.
But now you risk serious damage to your reputation & legacy.
Your initial response to Dr. Shukla's reasonable article was incoherent and incorrect. Admit you made a mistake (quietly, to yourself) and let it go.

There are 2.5 million Hindu Americans in the USA today. This next generation is more than ready to represent Hinduism to America. If you want to borrow ideas and be a spokesperson for "New Age" gurus, that's fine. But don't try to be a representative of Hinduism when you have clearly denied being a Hindu on the record in numerous interviews. And certainly do not create arbitrary definitions of Hinduisms to suit your needs.

We understand that many in your generation of immigrants did not have the strength and confidence to simply say, "I am a Hindu", even though you obviously have respect for it.