"Aliens in America" About All of Us

What you say sounds good and in a rationale world the people of this country would live up to this ideal. However, if one looks at the history of the United States, all the evidence argues against this. The people of this country have never lived up to the ideal. They have not even gotten close to that ideal! Read the history of the Native American experience, the African American experience, the Asian experience, the Eastern European experience, the Irish experience, the Italian experience.

Wow, cool man, big thanks! http://rjrnknfcry.com

http://nepotomul.2itb.com
all here

http://nepotomul.2itb.com
all here

ali- we learn pretty young in america not to construct our concepts of reality from tv shows.

It is unique that the Koran calls Christians and jews the people fo the book, detailing that we follow the teachings of our Lord, the one and only God. Yet Christians and Jews to not view Muslims as brothers and sisters of us.

Also, Alla is not a name, it's simply the arabic word for "God".

V, V, V, V,

If you don't like wikipedia, try the Catholic Encyclopedia for the Catholic version of the Ten Commandments.

And as usual, you still cannot come to grips with the flaws in Islam. How very, very sad that by your silence you add credence to the Islamic terror theocracy of Iran!!!!

i have to be honest lib- (getting lazy,eh? only VVV now?)

now i was just playing semantics with you lib- although i actually have had long conversations about this in the past with priests and apologists.

now my following reasoning is the truth, and isnt intended to discredit your post-
and noe of this is personal at all- or directed to you- just my personal rant about wikipedia-

i have only encountered wikipedia recently in my life- and i have to admit- i really dislike it as a source.
if i ever use it on these boards- i preface it with an apology, and ONLY use it to support other stronger links or pastes.
whenever i look something up- i skip right over the wikipedia reference-
why is it always the first thing shoved in our face when we google anything?

its the worst source ive ever seen!
if it were a book id throw it away.

when did opinion become a substitute for fact?

and it always amazes me the way people become instant internet experts on any given subject with this disreputable research!

they say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing- and wikipedia is the strongest proof of that.

i cant tell you how many times ive researched things thoroughly, with i all fresh in my mind- and when i check wikipedia i find things that are actually completely false!
wrong information!
with some little disclaimer- the source is disputed- or some such nonsense, as if that validates its inaccuracies!!!

that burns me up- that it deliberately misleads or misrepresents- often even rewriting history because i guess anoyne anywhere can post something there-

its awful!

i know youve done your reasearch and studying so youre not included here-

but when i see someone post wikipeda as their proof of their argument- they go way down in my estimation, even if theire point is one i agree with- or i find their reasoning strong-

when i see wikipedia as their reference- i automatically question what i may have accpeted point blank without it!

but your pointis well taken-
anyway- it was a blanket and uninformed assertion to begin with- that all muslims dont know the 10 commandments-

o- i just looked at that post you referred to-

that wasnt a muslim!
thats some guy sitting in his mothers basement in texas imagining what he thinks a muslim thinks-

farhad ahmad- its pretty artless to say the least,and forgettable which is why i forgot it.
ok, peace then lib

i guess no cookies for you dude

V, V, V, V,

What is it that you do not understand about the following?

"Killing or murder
Various translations exist of the sixth commandment; the Hebrew words לא תרצח are variously translated as "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not murder". Older Protestant translations of the Bible, those based on the Vulgate and Roman Catholic translations usually render it "Thou shalt not kill", whereas Jewish and newer Protestant versions tend to use "You shall not murder". There is controversy as to which translation is more faithful, and both forms are quoted in support of ethical standpoints."

"Notes: *Roman Catholics use 'You shall not Kill' instead 'You shall not murder"[3)"

For added details READ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

And of course the real issue is the koranic call for murder/killing of infidels and those that try to leave Islam but again you fail to come to grips with this and the other flaws of your religion.

nice try lib-

but you posted specifically the CATHOLIC version on the main page- (which specifies murder)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It is obvious that Muslims have never heard of the Fifth Commandment (Catholic list), i.e. Thou Shalt Not Kill!!!!!"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

where i answered you the first time-

sneaky tactic lib

the douay, or old cathlic bible uses murder- let me check on the new jerusalem-

yup- new jerusalem also has "murder"

goodness lib- do your homework before you make fun of people not knowing things- which only ends up in me being forced to reveal your own poor knowledge of your own religion.

not only this, but its an old theological argument- to kill vs. murder

not even a deep or unusual one

Let just face the TRUTH:

Islam followers are hateful.

BURNING THE CROSS OF ENGLAND by JIHAD-OURPATH

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdfr8gIiypY

Trying to sound like the Dispatches vids. Makes me laugh.

Same "ole" Victoria, she never addresses the flaws of Islam to include the "fasting" sham of Ramadan.

"Killing or murder
Various translations exist of the sixth commandment; the Hebrew words לא תרצח are variously translated as "thou shalt not kill" or "thou shalt not murder". Older Protestant translations of the Bible, those based on the Vulgate and Roman Catholic translations usually render it "Thou shalt not kill", whereas Jewish and newer Protestant versions tend to use "You shall not murder". There is controversy as to which translation is more faithful, and both forms are quoted in support of ethical standpoints."

For added details see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

its thou shalt not murder lib- not kill

even i know that.

whats up with the big mac obsession lately?

we certainly do talk about food alot though, dont we- you and i?

tonight im ordering delicious halal chinese food-
yum

if i knew where you lived id send you homemade cookies, but i know youd just call the bomb squad and ruin them.

( i dont want to know where you live lib- i dont want to disturb your feelings of security any more than they already are.)

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

What fast??? As noted previously, Muslims fast/sleep/read/watch TV from sunup to sundown then feast from sundown to sunup every day during Ramadan.

With respect to the Ten Commandments:

It is obvious Muslims have never heard of the Ten Commandments, especially the Fifth Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Kill and the Sixth Commandment, Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery (which they commit as soon as they they take their second, third and fourth wives).

Again, a Big Mac and baseball bat upon your "peaceful/terrorist", Islamic and koranic head!!!

The US, by blindly supporting Israel, by pouring tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons into Israel, by supporting Israel’s slaughter of virtually tens of thousands of Palestinians in the last 60 years, has become, in many ways, an enemy of Islam. But this was a confrontation started by the US (due to Zionist lobbying) and NOT by Islam. The horrible, evil, miss-guided events of 9/11 were the direct result of the US’s blind, slave-like support of Israeli aggression and human rights violations over the last half century. Virtually everyone who has lived in and studied the Middle East knows this to be true. Unfortunately, most Americans (the 70% we see mentioned) aren’t well read enough, or smart enough, to figure this out. A good start for those people (the ones who can read) would to read Jimmy Carter’s book “Peace not Apartheid”. Or do they think that Jimmy Carter is a Muslim terrorist?

The US, by blindly supporting Israel, by pouring tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons into Israel, by supporting Israel’s slaughter of virtually tens of thousands of Palestinians in the last 60 years, has become, in many ways, an enemy of Islam. But this was a confrontation started by the US (due to Zionist lobbying) and NOT by Islam. The horrible, evil, miss-guided events of 9/11 were the direct result of the US’s blind, slave-like support of Israeli aggression and human rights violations over the last half century. Virtually everyone who has lived in and studied the Middle East knows this to be true. Unfortunately, most Americans (the 70% we see mentioned) aren’t well read enough, or smart enough, to figure this out. A good start for those people (the ones who can read) would to read Jimmy Carter’s book “Peace not Apartheid”. Or do they think that Jimmy Carter is a Muslim terrorist?

The US, by blindly supporting Israel, by pouring tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons into Israel, by supporting Israel’s slaughter of virtually tens of thousands of Palestinians in the last 60 years, has become, in many ways, an enemy of Islam. But this was a confrontation started by the US (due to Zionist lobbying) and NOT by Islam. The horrible, evil, miss-guided events of 9/11 were the direct result of the US’s blind, slave-like support of Israeli aggression and human rights violations over the last half century. Virtually everyone who has lived in and studied the Middle East knows this to be true. Unfortunately, most Americans (the 70% we see mentioned) aren’t well read enough, or smart enough, to figure this out. A good start for those people (the ones who can read) would to read Jimmy Carter’s book “Peace not Apartheid”. Or do they think that Jimmy Carter is a Muslim terrorist?

The US, by blindly supporting Israel, by pouring tens of billions of dollars worth of weapons into Israel, by supporting Israel’s slaughter of virtually tens of thousands of Palestinians in the last 60 years, has become, in many ways, an enemy of Islam. But this was a confrontation started by the US (due to Zionist lobbying) and NOT by Islam. The horrible, evil, miss-guided events of 9/11 were the direct result of the US’s blind, slave-like support of Israeli aggression and human rights violations over the last half century. Virtually everyone who has lived in and studied the Middle East knows this to be true. Unfortunately, most Americans (the 70% we see mentioned) aren’t well read enough, or smart enough, to figure this out. A good start for those people (the ones who can read) would to read Jimmy Carter’s book “Peace not Apartheid”. Or do they think that Jimmy Carter is a Muslim terrorist?

The western world And Islam are at war. It is foolish for western nations to allow Muslim immigrants as they are sowing the seeds for future problems. Just look at the burning cars in France and the current turmoil in Switzerland. Muslims do not assimilate and they breed like rabbits.

Are we really like this? Only in the few months just after the September 11 attacks have I actually witnessed that kind of small mindedness, although I realize it must occur more often than I'm seeing. More and more lately I've been reading these statistics, like this "70% of Americans say they have little or nothing in common with Muslims." I do not understand how we can perpetuate this misguided prejudice against an entire group of people, especially when we look back through history at the sometimes extreme horrors that occur as a result of such backward thinking. I would like to think that most Americans can rise above the anger, fear, and sorrow that came out of 9/11 and recognize that the people behind those attacks are fanatics (something that unfortunately naturally results from ANY religion including every sect of Christianity) and not the every day people of Arab descent who are simply trying to work hard, love their families, and survive like the rest of the world.

well i just watched the topical sitcom tonight.

it was not exactly laugh out loud funny, but it wasnt turn the channel dull either.

it was, a sitcom.
there was a misunderstanding, a sub-plot misunderstanding- a lesson learned and the neat resolution at the end.

in other words, a sit-com.

the characters were developed enough for me to care about their fates, there was no evidence of any preachiness one way or the other-

it followed everybody hates chris, another show about an 'on the social fringe' young teen.

its not a sociological study of the habits of the teenaged pakistani- just a sweet little sitcom.

actually i look forward to the day when the bizarre characterizations of muslim that americans accept blindly as really representative,
become fodder for a sitcom and people laugh at the ridiculousness of the caricatures presented as reality. (evidenced, sadly, here)

but that day is far off i fear.

but this is a start.
peace

thats interesting thart you said that lib-
i was watching religion and ethics weeky, its on pbs every week- and at one point they discussed a poll taken- wait- maybe i can find it-

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Survey: Ten Commandments Illiteracy

To promote a new movie on the Ten Commandments the producers commissioned a national survey to compare knowledge of the Ten Commandments with knowledge of Big Mac hamburgers. It was no contest. From 60 to 80 percent could name the contents of a Big Mac. Just 45 percent could remember "honor thy father and mother," and only 34 percent mentioned keeping the Sabbath.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

there was this story too-

Muslims celebrate Eid al-Fitr Friday (October 12). It is the final night of the holy month of Ramadan, when Muslims fast during the daytime and come together each evening for a feast, an iftar

President Bush marked Ramadan at the White House with his own iftar. Bush and First Lady Laura Bush joined Muslim leaders as they broke their fast.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

despite concerted efforts to move backwards-
life just has a way of progressing anyway, doesnt it?

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

You noted: "the worst of all is when people come on here faking muslim names and posting garbage trying to get people to believe that a muslim says such insane drivel".

But you continue to post inane and insane drivel about how peaceful Islam is. Maybe your name is Farhad Ahmed???

And a Big Mac and a baseball bat on your "peaceful/terrorist" Islamic heads!!!!!

the worst of all is when people come on here faking muslim names and posting garbage trying to get people to believe that a muslim says such insane drivel

It is impossible to expect anything else from Americans. Ignorant about the rest of the world, fed on huge hamburgers and brainwashed by O'Reillys of Fox TV as well as hostage to a Zionist Israel lobby, ensconed in the bubble of an economy that consumes 70 percent of the earth's resources, cut off from the rest of humanity by their peculiar sports, they are a curse on mankind.

It is very good exposure, to the young people.
To see how the real world works, people are
different and as are their, thoughts about
others.

The young need to know, that it starts with
there own, focus, thoughts and originalitiy.
They are the future that will, be making
decisions for most of us, Life is definetely
what you make it, all over the world there
are children looking for a positive guide.

We do not need anymore wars.

Imagine that some people actually have issues with muslims? Who are these people? They might be Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Animists, Hindus, Atheists, Sikhs, the indifferent, and even other muslims and they make up more than one-fifth of humanity. Only an idiot like the author of this incredibly foolish article would deceive themselves with his platitudes. I wonder what tear-jerking articles he will write when we go to war with Iran?

Victoria, Victoria, Victoria,

More "wishy-wash" from you. And what sayest thou about the seven doctors in the UK who attempted to burn down two UK airports?? What about the educated 9/11 terrorists??? Give us a break with you "goody-good" Muslim rhetoric!!!!!!!

Ready to come to grips with the flaws in the foundations and founder of your religion???

Ready to condemn the policies of the Islamic terror theocracy of Iran aka The Third Axis of Evil????

Why this question now? Because now western countries have started to see some sizable pockets of muslims in their countries. And most of them trust AlZazeera TV for their news and trust their Imams and local Muslim leaders for their conduct and are ready to be brain washed like millions have been. Muslims gotten education in madrasas in Middle East or South Asia , surely growup to become fundamentalists and some of them may become terrorists out of that lot. Which means religion and religious education is creating such intolerant breed.
I have grown up in India and have experienced long before what westerners are feeling now about muslims. Muslims do not want to integrate with modern society readily and naturally. They consider western values as corrupting and are not ready to leave the old medieval mindset and very conservative traditions like divorcing when a man says "Talaq" 3 times even in dream; raising of FATWA's by Mullahs, not celebrating the festivals of the majority community in the country they live, etc. Spread of Saudi wahabism is the greatest threat coming from Islamic countries now. AlQaeda and hundreds of other such products get their funding from rich Sheikhs, rich muslim countries. Can you show me a single muslim majority country where non-muslims have anything good to say about Islam. One thing I have hundred from all such people is that they are bothered too much by local people as to "You are a good man. How come you are not a muslim. Why don't you embrace Islam?"
Do you see the intolerance muslims grow up with about non-muslims?
No wonder they would be treated like aliens in western countries and not one of those who share their values.

deco- but muslims have been in america in numbers since the beginning of the 20th century.

they are NOT a recent immigrant group.
they are however the most highly educated group of immigrants to hit our shores.
and in the past century have built countless schools and communities.
what they have NOT contributed in their immigration to america are crime statistics.

if youd have made that statement 50-75 years ago, it might have made some sense.

but the fact that muslims HAVE been here, and making quiet contributions, working and educating their children for 100 years (in numbers) without anyone noticing points more to their lack of notoriety through crime than anything else.

We are not killing the Muslims like they are killing the Christians in Muslim countries.

We do not force them to convert to our religion the way Muslims do.

We allow them to practice their own faith unlike Muslim countries do.

We dont cut the clitoris off the women the way some Muslims do.

We dont believe everyone should bow to allah the way the Muslims do.

We dont throw tantrums and kill people over cartoons the way Muslims do.

Until Muslim people in the Muslim countries start promoting good will and justice for all and do away with these antiquated ideas of superiority and "the Muslim way or no way" we have no room in this country for these overzealous cultists.

Thank goodness the Post added Patel to their blog lineup. We need more blog posts about "how knee-jerk and narrow America has become since 9/11."

It seems that in order to get a regular gig on the "OnFaith" or "PostGloabl", you must be:

A) an athiest

B) disdainful of America

C) Both

It is a shame that the Post staff limits discussion to those who share their own narrow views on faith and America.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/02/opinion/02RUSH.html?ex=1191988800&en=4ddcad9bad4ab3da&ei=5070

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/02/opinion/02RUSH.html?ex=1191988800&en=4ddcad9bad4ab3da&ei=5070

Wait until the crazies (Muslim fanatics) get wind of this show. Then it will be--"Death to Aliens in America, Death to {insert anything or anyone you wish to})"...............

Because the Jewish operating manual aka OT has basically been relegated to the myth pile.

I am disgusted by the bashing of muslims on this thread. Even more disgusted that a prominent news source allows people to continue this bashing. Why don't we ever see a similar thread on the jewish religion? Does anyone have the nerve?

I am disgusted by the bashing of muslims on this thread. Even more disgusted that washingtonpost.com allows people to continue this bashing. Why don't we ever see a similar thread on the jewish religion? Does anyone have the nerve?

Reiterating this famous quote:

"Gators vs. Muslims??? Gators definitely will kill. With Muslims, it depends but with the koran as their operating manual can we trust any of them?"

Ted Baines, It is fear that has transformed you to this extent. 9/11 is now history. Its anniversary would be celebrated every year. And that is all.

Yes, it is said but to some extent true the way Muslims are viewed in America, but I hate to say every new ethnic group who has arrived here in the past experienced similar prejudice and ignorance.

My Italian ancestors certainly did---they combatted this ignorance by integrating, participating, and educating others about their culture, etc.. I think Muslims are on the right track, but need to do more about not just educating others but integrating more. As far as prejudice...it will always be there..it is how one responds to it.

I do not want to go to war. But on 9/11 Muslims attacked the USA and they had to pay the price.

If I had been president I would have bombed Afghanistan and Pakistan out of existence for having aided and abetted The Taliban and the Al Qaeda. I would have seriously considered bombing Riyadh and even Mecca.

I would not have gone into Iraq. Or Iran.

I would not have tried to nation build in Afghanistan You cannot force secularism and democracy on a people that wants neither.

My first step after 9/11 would have been to stop all immigration from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and to send all natives of these two countries back to their countries. That would have reduced the immediate threat to the US.

I would have later extended the ban to Bangladesh, Indonesia, Morrocco, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Algeria, Iran, Iraq and Syria. I would also ban the Muslims of India, 200 million of them, from coming here.

Mr. Ted Baines,
I also forget to type my name. I just sent my comments for you. It might has been appeared "ANONYMOUS". But it is SAMI QURESHI.

Mr. Ted Baines,......... Why do you want to win the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan"? Is there any moral sanctity in it or just to kill human beings in millions to satisfy your "egoism". Remember,the third party always reaps the harvest in wars. On the other hand, this world is no more an unipolar where jungle rule could be flourished. Historical forces are moving fast towards unforeseen directions and it is hard to predict the outcome of the conglomeration of different kind of forces at this stage, even nuclear states have stretched their wings in the sky. Let us join for peace not for war.

The US should treat Islam just like Communism is treated in the US: a dangerous ideology incompetible with freedom which shouldn't be practiced by immigrants to the US --immigrants receiving US citizenship sign a declaration that they will never become communists or else they can loose their citizenship (and be deported, maybe?!).

Muslims are alien. When I see a woman completely covered except for eyes walking behind her bearded husband with a scowl on his face as if he is on his way to up building, the couple does not look very native to me.

I did not intend to post anonymously , just forgot to type in my name.

Nations that go into war with the intention of winning do not exclude civilian areas from attack. Because civilian areas are used by the enemy to hide knwoing fully well that western democracy does not allow attacking civilian areas.

World War II was different. the USA was not so politically correct and both the Democrats and the Republicans wanted the US to win. Now the Democrats want the US to lose.

During World War II the USA bombed Germany and Japan to smithereens and that is why both countries surrendered.

The US did not do the same in North Korea or in Vietnam. That is why both wars were inconclusive until the Truman and Nixon decided to give up and run away or call for a truce. The US could have won in Vietnam had it had the same determination as Ho Chi Minh.

Now the US is suffering from teh same disease in Afghanistan and Iraq. It does not wish to go all out to win.

If the US wants to defeat the Taliban it would go full force into Waziristan and bomb all the Taliban areas without concern for the civilians. That is how wars are won.

Sheesh, David.

You are a bringing bigoted back..

As long as we're talking about stereotypes, let's talk about one that's true: how one race controls 95 percent of the content, not including advertising, on Mainstream Television in America. I have 10 years experience in that disgusting field, and I'm not Jewish. But in Hollywood, there's a term "above the line", which means an editor or producer or executive, i.e. someone with some direct control over content. These jobs are almost completely held by Jews. The other jobs, which aren't particularly Jewish, are called "below the line." These are techies, engineers, receptionists and other nuts-and-bolts types who make the machine run, but who will never have any say in what gets "aired." As an engineer, I was privy to some very inside conversations, and some of the most racist rants one could imagine. In the pre- 9/11 world, many if not most above-the-line types I met made no attempt to disguise their contempt for Gentiles, and GOD FORBID the subject of Muslims ever arose..... I could tell you some stories, from personal experience, that would make your stomach crawl. But I just had dinner, so I won't.
Keep this (admittedly just one person's) experience in mind when watching the garbage that Hollywood churns out, and I don't think you'll have any difficulty seeing through the thinly-veiled racism that's so prevalent these days. As for me, I can't watch TV without feeling queasy.

My question to Mr. Patel is, why in the world would you let your religion define who you are and how much has that mistake hurt you in your life? I think you know it's hurt you a great deal and that's why you wrote this piece for the Post. I think you'd agree that if you got the chip off your shoulder you'd be a much happier person and a better citizen. So how about it? How about going just one single year ignoring Islam and then after that year you can start again? I think you'd find as a scientific experiment that it would be a really positive action on your part instead of engulfing yourself in negativity as what comes across in your writing. I'm not asking for much, just one single year of your life? Are you too close-minded and bigoted to try it?

Guess what - you get classified as an "Alien" when your beliefs undermine the prevailing American culture (example: women's rights, fair wages) and you don't even like American culture or Americans. How would a female Christian American be treated in a muslim country? By the way - it is crap that so many foreigners come here and try to exploit our social security system. Become American and then move back to the homeland - taking the social security with you.

to: Anonymous who doesn't know much about history...

From what dark, warm place do you pull the idea that citizens "forced" the Japanese surrender in 1945? Even Germany didn't surrender until it was being overrun by allied ground forces.

If you pick up a history book maybe you would be disabused of the notion that such a complicated problem could have a simple solution like "hey... why don't we just keep all the muslims out of the country?"

JT INTERVIEW: Voice of a Somali Christian from Somalia

In an exclusive interview, Jimma Times (JT) recently spoke with a Somali Christian, Hassan, who is a principal figure in a Christian Ministry among the Somali Diaspora community in the West. Requesting for his parent (last) name to remain anonymous for fear of harassment, Hassan described the grim status of religious freedom in Somalia, challenges in the region and the future ahead for Somali Christians.

http://jimmatimes.com/article.cfm?articleID=17171

Jimma Times: There is an unquestionable threat of the intolerant features of Wahhabism and political Islam destabilizing all East Africa. Some organizations in southern Somalia allegedly have Al-Qaeda links and others vowed to rule all of East Africa by their form of Sharia. Do you think regional governments are addressing this danger properly?

Hassan: I believe the present federal government of Ethiopia, headed by Meles Zenawi, is the only government that is trying to address the danger of jihadi fundamentalism in the region. And if the Wahhabi influence takes root in Ethiopia I am afraid for the future of this great and beautiful country that we call Ethiopia because Wahabists will try to start hostility and religious wars between Christians and Muslims in Ethiopia and that will be devastating.

Jimma Times: How do ordinary Somalis feel and react when some radical Somali Islamists say it is the duty of all Somalis to wage jihad and exterminate all Somali Christians?

Hassan: Good question. I think most ordinary Somalis would agree with Islamists to exterminate all Somali Christians. After all, it is in islamic commandment to kill anyone who dares to abandon Islam, that is not just a fundamentalist stuff. The "ordinary" Somali Muslims may not rush to kill anyone who leaves Islam but they will still agree with the Wahhabists when it comes to eliminating Somali Christians.

Jimma Times: All denominations of Protestants in Ethiopia are said to be new and "imported." Yet, even the ancient Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity itself, at some period, was imported by evangelists from the Middle East. So why do Christian Ethiopians, Christian East Africans and their western backers accuse new forms of Islam as being an "import?"

Hassan: I think these people are legitimately concerned about the danger of the imported Islamic extremism. The reason is that Christianity does not teach to violently over throw secular governments and replace them with Christian theocratic government based on the gospel. On the other hand, that is exactly what Islamic Wahhabi fundamentalists are doing and that is their ultimate goal. They want to establish Shari'a based Islamic governments all over the region and they want to do this through violent jihad if necessary. Therefore, the concern of Ethiopian Christians and East African Christians is truly a legitimate one. Christians never teach to hate others, in fact, Jesus commanded us to love our enemies but Muslim fundamentalists teach openly to kill and hate what they call “the kuffar” or non-Muslims and their mission is one of jihad, hatred and violence.

Jimma Times: Why vilify Arab Muslim investment on African Muslim organizations, while western Churches & western organizations have been doing the same thing for decades?

Hassan: Plain truth is not vilification. The end goal of these Arab and wahabi investments is to spread hatred, fear and Islamic supremacism. Wherever these wahabi fundamentalists go and plant their seed of hatred there will always be violence and jihad against non-Muslims. You can’t call that vilification. That is a fact of life..

Jimma Times: Certainly, you face immense external challenges with lack of religious freedom & tolerance in Somalia. But are there internal challenges and obstacles to your ministry?

Hassan: what do you expect when you can’t even visit your own country let alone doing ministry there or living there? Somali Muslims will not even allow us to visit our own country. There is always a dangerous threat and violence that we face because of our decision to follow the religion we want. That is barbaric.

Consider this: Muslims in the West have all the freedom they need to practice or preach their Islamic religion in whatever way they want but they are murdering us for reading our Bibles or confirming our Christian faith openly inside Somalia. That is barbaric. That is pure barbarism. What else will you call it?

I have never set foot in my homeland, my beloved country for the past 14 years, that is because, my decision to follow Christ, the prince of peace... I just can’t understand.

Jimma Times: Do you see any encouraging, new and specific developments towards a better future for Somali Christians in Somalia?

Hassan: The only way for the Somali Christians to go back and live in Somalia is if all Muslim Somalis leave us alone and let us practice our Christian faith openly. We need to have churches; we need to perform Christian baptisms and marriages and we need to be free in practicing our Christian faith openly and without fear of persecution and violence and we need to pay tax and build our country as every body else. Unfortunately that is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.

Jimma Times: Thank you for participating in our interview program.

Hassan: My pleasure

Jimma Times: It is often portrayed uncommon for Somalis to be Christians and most Somali politicians & religious leaders assert that Somalia is a Muslim nation. When did you become a Christian?

Hassan: I became a Christian 16 years ago and there are many Somalis who are not Muslims, most are Christians but also there are others who are atheists or agnostics so to say that all Somalis are Muslims for this day and age is unrealistic, to say the least.

Jimma Times: Approximately, about how many Somali Christians are there in Somalia and around the world?

Hassan: I think there are a few hundreds Somali Christians worldwide and most are outside of Somalia. The danger is so high for the Somali Christians to live in Somalia because Islam teaches anyone who abandons Islam should be killed and about 200 Somali Christians have been killed for their faith in Somalia for the past 15 years.

Jimma Times: At times, Islam appears to be used interchangeably with Somali nationalism. What is it like to be a Christian in Somalia and among Somali communities in the Diaspora?

Hassan: It is very; very dangerous to be a Somali Christian in Somalia because there are dangerous Wahhabi fundamentalists who are sworn to hunt down and kill every Somali Christian who is living in Somalia and that is what they did in the past 15 years when they have killed more than 200 Somali Christians.

In the past when the former socialist military government was in power it was much safer and there were churches and several hundred Somali Christians, mostly Roman Catholics and some Protestants in Mogadishu alone but today you can't even find a single Christian person. There are some but they are hiding because if they are found out, the Wahhabi fundamentalists will immediately kill them. The Somali Christians in the Diaspora are safe from violence, but they are still persecuted in some smaller ways as they are ostracized and avoided by other Somalis who consider them as traitors and enemies.

Jimma Times: Would the Transitional Federal Government (TFG), currently in Mogadishu, bring positive changes towards religious tolerance?

Hassan: Yes, if the TFG assumes power I am sure it will bring some positive changes towards religious tolerance in Somalia because the TFG is a pro-Western pro-Ethiopia secular government but there is very small chance that the TFG will succeed and assume power in Somalia.

Jimma Times: Are you aware of the status of religious freedom in the breakaway Somaliland region?

Hassan: Somaliland is relatively peaceful and less dangerous when you compare with Mogadishu or with the rest of Somalia. The Somalilanders are traditionally more tolerant people but still there are some Wahhabi fundamentalists who will not tolerate to see Somali Christians even in Somaliland.

Jimma Times: Improved Freedom of religion in Ethiopia has not led to absolute peace and co-existence. As much as some radical Muslims have crossed the line, evangelicals have not fared innocent as well. From Evangelical Christians interrupting Muslim services with loud music, to Ethiopian evangelicals attacking vulnerable Muslim children and treating them as people filled with evil spirits. Where exactly does the line between bold evangelism and confrontational evangelism exist?

Hassan: Well. Jesus never treated people that way. The best example to follow is the way Jesus treated with people. True evangelism has nothing to do with shouting or treating people as if they are filled with evil spirits etc. True evangelism starts with love, humility, dialogue, friendship and respect for the other person and that is what I and other Somali Christians believe.

sursum,

All those other peoples did not blow up the twin towers. All those other peoples did not try to overthrow our government for Islam.

Can't we all get along? For those close to the Canadian border, try to catch a CBC series called "Little Mosque on the Prarie" wherein the foibles of a staid Christian town in Saskatechewan are shown, as it tries to accomodate/adjust to the newness of an Imam coming to town and in turn how the tiny Muslim community see Canadians. In essence it is similar to past series where the new immigrant runs smack into the new world. I can think of Jewish, Irish, Italian, Scandanavian, etc., etc. forerunners of the same story line. Raised a Catholic, I call recall being exposed to non-Catholic tripe from teachers who had a lot of terrible things about non-Catholics. Dogma does that to you

Can't we all get along? For those close to the Canadian border, try to catch a CBC series called "Little Mosque on the Prarie" wherein the foibles of a staid Christian town in Saskatechewan are shown, as it tries to accomodate/adjust to the newness of an Imam coming to town and in turn how the tiny Muslim community see Canadians. In essence it is similar to past series where the new immigrant runs smack into the new world. I can think of Jewish, Irish, Italian, Scandanavian, etc., etc. forerunners of the same story line. Raised a Catholic, I call recall being exposed to non-Catholic tripe from teachers who had a lot of terrible things about non-Catholics. Dogma does that to you

"When we treat our neighbors and guests of a different faith as strangers, we become the aliens in America."

Mr. Patel, what a strange and misleading statement this is. The reality is this, no other country in the world is more accepting of people from other parts of the world. In this country anyone can come and get work, worship as they like and live as they will, so long as they don't harm others and follow our laws. We are a very accepting culture. It is the muslims who don't consider themselves American and don't want to assimilate. It is they who want America and it's people to bend to their religious beliefs. And time and again it is muslims who are committing violence around the world and in this country. So I refuse to apologize for the Americans in this country who don't want to accept that yoke of dhimmitude and treat muslims with suspicion. All in all, I'd say they're treated pretty well, consider what would happen to a Christian American (for example) if they were to go to a muslim country and behave, well, American...and then on top of that start demanding the people of that country change their customs and behavior. Do you think they'd still have their heads after a day?

True Islam in action.

Taliban' writ in Haryana village
8 Oct 2007, 0001 hrs IST,C Shamsher,TNN

SMS NEWS to 58888 for latest updates
CHANDIGARH: Barely 25 km from the bustling township of Karnal is village Mundogari, where people don't buy television sets, don't get themselves photographed, or even listen to Hindi film music.

It's not because they don't have the financial wherewithal to do so; it's because the 5,000-strong Muslim population of the village is under the near-total sway of retrograde maulvis whose edicts have barred the folk from any form of recreation.

With just one Hindu Dalit family in Mundogari, the village has more or less been reduced to a Talibanised relic. It's not the rule of law that enshrines personal freedoms that prevails here; it's the fatwas from maulvis, who interpret the Koran according to their blinkered vision, that calls the shots, preventing people from exerting their right to freedom in a country that celebrated its 60th year of independence in August this year.

The only connection of villagers — who don't travel out — with the outside world is the radio on which the only programme they are allowed to listen to is the news.

Says Raj Singh Chaudhary, a Karnal-based social worker: "When one family bought a TV set, it was severely ostracised." What adds to the problem, he says, is the literacy rate at an abysmal 3%, with just one person reaching college. And since no one is even 10th pass, there's not a single person in the village employed with the government.

Dilshad Ali, 20, would be seen as a villain in this village if his secret was out. For he has defied the maulvis' fatwa and took admission in BA second year. Asked whether he follows any other proclamation, he says: "I have to paste photographs on the admission form, have to read newspapers and I watch TV regularly whenever I am outside the village." How does he do all this? "I have to keep these things a secret," he says.

Eighteen year old Shadaqat Ali, who owns an STD/PCO outlet, says, Koran doesn't allow us to watch TV and listen to music in any form. On being asked who informed him about it, he says: "Maulvis have informed the entire village time and again and about TV’s ill-effects."

Another woman, who refuses to be named, says: "The women folk aren't allowed to come out of their house. Many haven't travelled more than 25 km ever in their lives."

"My first outing as a child was to a hospital and ever since I have mostly gone to hospitals as do other women, most of whom are married at age 14-15."

Maulana Ajmal Khan, the imam at Sector 20 Masjid, Chandigarh, says: "If you want a photograph clicked for the passport, or on the admission form, you can have it, since it's out of necessity. But you can't have it hanging on the wall." Islam also does not allow singing and dancing or any such form of entertainment, he adds.

All Islam defenders who are non-Muslims note Zakir's words. They are a clear refection of the true sentiments of all true Qur'an believing Muslims.

"Allah has commanded us through Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) that in Muslim countries only Islam is allowed. When the USA becomes more than 50% Muslim and it will happen soon, all other religions will be discouraged."

Then US media is guilty of not researching the Qur'an, the haddith, the history of Islam and then telling us the truth about Islam. Instead they dedicate whole TV programs and newspaper articles to defending Islam day in and day out. The Muslims know this so they use the PC media for the advancement of their agenda. The media attacks Christians asserting that Christians want to take over the nation but that is not the truth. They real culprits they protect and they attack American Christians who love their country.

Just like Zakir said as soon as Islam is over 50% in the USA there will be no other choice for a religion except Islam. Then we will see Islam's true colors in the USA. If you want to see what it will be like now just look at the intolerance of the Muslim world now. They murdered another Christian today in Gaza.

I would rather read about "muslim Aliens out of America".

Jalebi,

Hmmm, why did/do the USA and the UN fight in Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan, and Somalia? Who are/were we protecting?? Hmmm, the local Muslims. And who is killing who in Darfur?????? Muslims killing "fellow" Muslims. Ditto for Iraq (i.e the civil war between Sunnis vs Shiites.)

And Korea was a UN response to North Korea's invasion.

And Vietnam was an unsuccessful attempt to reign in the scourge of Communism.

Said scourge was finally ended by winning the Cold War via the resolve of the free world and its superior technology.

The atomic bombs dropped on Japan saved millions of lives both Japanese and Allied. Japan after all invented suicide bombings. Can you imagine the carnage of a ground war in Japan?? Would a nuke on Mecca be just as effective????

With respect to the history of the warmongering, womanizing, hallucinating, plagiarizing (via his scribes) Mohammed and his illiteracy, see for example the books written by Karen Armstrong, an On Faith Panelist. And don't forget to re-read the militaristic and anti-female passages of the koran.

And apparently you did not read the complete list of global bombings by radical Muslims all of which are instigated by the teachings of your book of death aka koran.

Again:

the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror?

The Islamic theocracy and terror state of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

And Israel- Its formation was approved by the UN in 1948. It should honor the original UN agreement and live within the described borders. Considering the hate generated by passages in the koran, erecting dividing walls between Muslims and Jews is highly recommended. UN forces should control these walls.

And Jerusalem should be made into an international city under the control and protection of the UN.

In the meantime, you need to come to grips with the flaws in the foundations of all religions especially Islam starting with the requirement to believe in "pwtfft"s.

Gee alice maybe being told everyday we are at war with muslims around the world has something to do with it,doesnt take a genious to read or listen everywhere does it.

The people on this board have some serious issues. The Muslim is your perennial 'boogeyman', I'm sure your bigotry isn't just regulated to them, your heart probably constricts every time you see a black man, you see Mexicans everywhere in your mist. It's too bad that your homogeneous America is dying, the demographics are fast changing and diversity is something your going to have to learn to stomach until you get home and purge yourself of the 'others'.

the article of Mr.Patel is somewhat the basis of which ly with the political atmosphere in America coupled with some propoganda unfortunately made by jew brothern as against muslims.History bears wittness that the events which happened at europe during preeeceding century although; were cruel in nature yet; were never linked with the religion whatsoever.the ever worst crime on whole humanity as committed by hitler in shape of hollocasut was never linked either with germen nationality nor with the religion of hitler who incidentaly happened christain.similarily; the president true man ordering for throwing atom bomb on japan was never linked with the trueman;s religion.currently; when tens of thousands of muslims were at state level by bosnain army killed; it was never linked with the religion of belgrade.then; why any kind of act including 9/11 could be linked with the religion of islam istead viewing it at individual level as part of the event in the history.the world is somewhat silent and not doing or serving the just cause of justice.when russia invaded afganistan in 1979 killing thousands of innocent afgans where was term terrorism used then and against whom ?for the learned author i may humlby add that it is very difficult to stand by word equity and justice when personel interests are required to be served. thanks.

In all fairness, I grew up in Washington, DC with many Muslim school friends and they could be pretty evenly split between "I hate the religion my parents are making me learn about because it's backward, treats women badly, encourages violence through Jihad, and the radicals embarrass me on the news every night" and the kids who bought into it hook line and sinker and would advocate destroying Israel, suggesting women shouldn't attend high school, or in one famous situation, the kid who told our science teacher, "I don't have to listen to you because you are an unmarried woman!" Oh, ok, makes perfect sense... in Biizarroland. This happened at Walt Whitman High School in Bethesda, MD in 1991.

So if we have a negative view of Islam, sure, you can blame pop culture, but don't forget that in our metropolitan area I was friends with Arab, Pakistani and Southeast Asian kids who hated Islam for the violence and bigotry written in the Quran. They were the kids returning from religious camps and classes hating Islam more and more. Then we also went to school with the violent bigots who loved Islam and kept telling us American culture wasn't violent or bigoted enough and expressing admiration for the Nazis. Can I say that in High School I knew one single Muslim who didn't either hate the terrorists in his religion or one single Muslim who wasn't a sexist jerk? No, everyone I knew fell into one of those two categories.

So, you know, live with what your religion and its followers have created as Muslim culture, don't blame the US fer crying out loud!

Anonymous,

"Peace and humanity" Is that what we see around the murderous Muslim world. Wake up!

Adultery and womanisation

Before criticising Islam and other religions, it is adviced that the western christians to look first underneath the "womenisation and immoral culture of alcoholism" they have created in their society.
The severest and harshest punishmemt that ever mankind experienced of these crimes is in Islam. The goal of the Wesrern society is enjoyments while Islam teaches peace and humanity.

concerned christian.....
Illiterate ? Now you accept the Quran as a Divine Book.
Warmonger? Who raided over Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia, Darfur? Who were the people destroyed Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Who are responsible for the genocide cotinuing since 1948 in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan. These heinous crimes are being done by the christian west, perhaps allowed by the fabricated dead scriptures that you people follow. Allah bless you.
You only remember 7 doctors but forget the thousands of number of allied forces killing innocent people daily in Iraq and Afghanistan. Decide yourself who is warmonger.

Hmmm, Zakir noted the following: "Islam is perfect".

Not according to history and current events.

A short synopsis for "newbie" eyes:

Mohammed, an illiterate, warmongering, womanizing, hallucinating long-dead Arab had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror?

The Islamic theocracy and terror state of Iran aka the Third Axis of Evil and also the "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

The last sentence says " The prophet said, ‘Learn about witchcraft, but don’t practise it’. I would like to know which hadith book that is from

Some Muslim medical students are refusing to attend lectures or answer exam questions on alcohol-related or sexually transmitted diseases because they claim it offends their religious beliefs.

Some trainee doctors say learning to treat the diseases conflicts with their faith, which states that Muslims should not drink alcohol and rejects sexual promiscuity.

A small number of Muslim medical students have even refused to treat patients of the opposite sex. One male student was prepared to fail his final exams rather than carry out a basic examination of a female patient.

The religious objections by students have been confirmed by the British Medical Association (BMA) and General Medical Council (GMC), which both stressed that they did not approve of such actions.
Related Links

* Fear of offending is killing our culture

It will intensify the debate sparked last week by the disclosure that Sainsbury’s is permitting Muslim checkout operators to refuse to handle customers’ alcohol purchases on religious grounds. It means other members of staff have to be called over to scan in wine and beer for them at the till.

Critics, including many Islamic scholars, see the concessions as a step too far, and say Muslims are reneging on their professional responsibilities.

This weekend, however, it emerged that Sainsbury’s is also allowing its Muslim pharmacists to refuse to sell the morning-after pill to customers. At a Sainsbury’s store in Nottingham, a pharmacist named Ahmed declined to provide the pill to a female reporter posing as a customer. A colleague explained to her that Ahmed did not sell the pill for “ethical reasons”. Boots also permits pharmacists to refuse to sell the pill on ethical grounds.

The BMA said it had received reports of Muslim students who did not want to learn anything about alcohol or the effects of overconsumption. “They are so opposed to the consumption of it they don’t want to learn anything about it,” said a spokesman.

The GMC said it had received requests for guidance over whether students could “omit parts of the medical curriculum and yet still be allowed to graduate”. Professor Peter Rubin, chairman of the GMC’s education committee, said: “Examples have included a refusal to see patients who are affected by diseases caused by alcohol or sexual activity, or a refusal to examine patients of a particular gender.”

He added that “prejudicing treatment on the grounds of patients’ gender or their responsibility for their condition would run counter to the most basic principles of ethical medical practice”.

Shazia Ovaisi, a GP in north London, said one of her male Muslim contemporaries at medical school failed to complete his training because he refused to examine a woman patient as part of his final exams.

“He was academically gifted, one of the best students, but gradually he got in with certain Islamic groups and started to become more radical,” said Ovaisi.

“You could see there was a change in his personality as time went by. During the final exams he was supposed to treat a female patient in hospital. He refused to do it, even though it would have been a very basic examination, nothing intrusive.

“But he refused and as a result he failed his exams. I was quite shocked and disappointed about it because I don’t see there being anything in our religion that prohibits us from examining male and female patients.”

Both the Muslim Council of Britain and Muslim Doctors and Dentist Association said they were aware of students opting out but did not support them.

Dr Abdul Majid Katme, of the Islamic Medical Association, said: “To learn about alcohol, to learn about sexually transmitted disease, to learn about abortion, it gives us more evidence to campaign against it. There is a difference between learning and practising.

“It is obligatory for Muslim doctors and students to learn about everything. The prophet said, ‘Learn about witchcraft, but don’t practise it’.”

It should be obvious to everybody. We entered Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003 and we are still there and the violence continues. We liberated the people from the Taleban and Saddam, helped the people frame a Constitution and hold election and the people of these countries promptly formed an Islamic state. Not a secular democracy we have aimed for.

The exact opposite happened in Germany and Japan. We destroyed the country, bombed civilians and six years lated both countries were secular democracies.

Precisely because we targeted civilian areas, the people of Germany and Japan gave and surrendered or rather forced their rulers to surrender and then cooperated willingly in the formation of secular countries. We basically wrote their Constitutions for them and kept it free of God and religion.

The Islamic terrorists know that our values of today prohibit targeting secular areas and that the fear of our civilian areas being bombed is what is making the American people oppose the war.

I am not suggesting that we give up our higher values and kill civilians. However unless the Muslim citizens of Muslim countries are made to suffer hardships they will not force their rulers, the Taliban and Al Qaeda to give up terrorism

The surefire method of stopping terrorism is to stop completely the immigration of Muslims from a few select Muslim countries. When they see their chances of getting a good life in the West taken away from them the Muslims will rebel against their rulers and force them to secularize their countries.

A ban on all Muslim immigration to the west ( USA, Canada and Western Europe) will benefit both the West and the Muslims.

It will benefit the West because by banning the immigration of Muslims, the root cause of terroristic acts inside the West will have been eliminated for the most part. All terror acts in West are committed and will be committed by Muslim immigrants and their descendants. By banning Muslims the West will no longer have to spend trillions in sending armies into Muslim countries to fight the Muslim terrorists and the regimes that provide aid to the terrorists. Almost all major terror acts have had their genesis in Pakistan with substantial aid from saudi Arabia. Instead the West will need to spend a very small amount keeping guard against Muslims in the West. Sending western armies into Muslim countries has been a failed measure for the simple reason that the general Muslim population supports, actively and passively, Islamic terrorism. Had the Muslim population been against terrorism bin Laden would have been caught a long time ago.

The ban will have to accompanied by giving financial aid to some of the poorer Muslim countries with the proviso that the aid be used to develop secular education in the Muslim countries. An impoverished Muslim country like Bangladesh or like Pakistan will welcome $10 billion annually because it will provide much needed foreign exchange and it will raise the standards of education in these countries if the aid is properly used.

By not allowing Muslims to migrate to the West, the Muslims in those countries will be forced to fight for reform of both Islam and of the political systems in the countries. At present it is too easy for the Muslims. At the slightest sign of oppression millions of Muslims flee to West into the arms of eager western liberals because for the latter their own reputation as do-gooders is more important than the safety and security of the West.

Western Europe fought against the repression by the Christian church because there was no means of escape. Had the USA been a refuge for immigrants in the 16th and 17th centuries, the Christian church would not have reformed because the oppressed people of Europe would have fled to America. With their backs against the wall Europeans forced the church and the clergy to reform Christianity.

A ban on Muslim immigration need not apply to all Muslim countries, at least in the beginning. Some countries such as Turkey would be exempt because very few Turks have indulged in terroristic activities. Malaysia would be another example. However stricter standards should apply for allowing immigrants from even these countries.

The following countries would be however the prime targets because the level of terroristic activity in their population has been very high:

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Morocco, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Syria.

India, which has a population of nearly 200 million, would also be subject to stricter standards. The Muslims of India have increasingly participated in terroristic activities, most recently in Australia and Britain. A ban on Muslims from India would also be appropriate.

anon:

bless you for your courage.

yes. ex-muslims are growing in numbers. but be careful. -many must have 24/7/12 security or live in safe houses. we are very close to having secure cities/neighborhoods. numbers increase daily as more realise -there is a safe way out.

the hatred of islam will be broken.

Zakir,

You said,

"Islam is the only religion that teaches the worship of 1 God and associate no partners with Him. Other religion call their followers to worship their respective prophets and idols. It doesn't make sense to go from worship of 1 God to worship of many gods or other than the 1 True God. But if they want to, Who is to stop them? Peace"

This is the exact reason that Islam is completely wrong about God. Gad has existed in all eternity as the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit. That is why when God made man, He said, "Let US make man in OUR own image" and "male and female He created them." In other words Adam and Eve were created as two persons who were one reflecting the image of God. You see God did not have to create another person to experience love which is the natural conclusion of the Islamic view of God. God is love and love flows from His very nature. The Triune God has been in a perfect relationship of love for all eternity.

I tell you this not to insult you but in love. My hope is that all Muslims would see the truth about Jesus believe and be saved. God bless!

I guess it would get rave reviews considering it tows the politically correct line that Islam is a religion of peace. While it is true that Islam rejects many of the sinful practices that our post Christian culture now embraces it is also true that the Qur'an commands jihad on all non-believers. The PC police are lulling the whole nation to sleep with shows like Aliens in America. This siycom gives an incomplete picture of what Islam is really about. Go to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Indonesia, etc. and say publicly that you do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet or preach publicly that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross and arose from the dead and then you will see what Islam is all about when your head is rolling down the street having being severed from your infidel body. Stop feeding us this PC version of Islam it is deceptive and very dangerous for our country.

My apologies for posting anonymously. It is for personal security.

I want to introduce Muslims for Jesus, a community of ex-Muslims who have accepted Jesus as their Lord, God and Saviour. We support and help Muslims who wish to leave Islam and to become Christians. We are active in the western countries including the USA and Canad and in Western Europe, countries with large Muslim populations.

We have to be very careful when we operate in Muslim countries because Islamic laws mandate death for apostates. However, we are beginning to have success. Saudi Arabia is different because even wearing a Cross can get you in prison and the killing of apostates is carried out by the government. In other Muslim countries apostates are killed by ordinary Muslim citizens, we suspect with the covert support of the government.

It will take time to build churches in Mecca because there will have to a change in the mindsets of Muslims. Please be patient. We have helped thousands of Muslims to accept the Lord and we hope the number will soon be millions.

Allah has commanded us through Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) that in Muslim countries only Islam is allowed. When the USA becomes more than 50% Muslim and it will happen soon, all other religions will be discouraged.

in response to the questions below: #1-Mecca is the home of islam. It originated there, it was revealed there. Do you let anyone in your home that you dont want to come in?

#2-im not sure about the public worship practices being banned but segregation and discriminatory practices arent limited to muslims or muslim countries. if you are from america, you know better than to start up a question about freedom of worship because christians throught history(especially the Dark Ages) are guilty of dominance in religion, and conversion by the sword ALL OVER THE WORLD. not just in any particular region or town. just because Christians now allow freedom of religion does not mean Muslims have to do the same.

#3-The places of worship. mecca is sacred to them, and they have enough problems without other religions trying to take over their Worship places. and i know that there are many churches and synagogs in the surrounding areas. why do non-muslims wanna go there anyway? that land means nothing to them.

#4-Answered in response #3.

and why cant people let them be? why do people want to go preach to the muslims? oh, Right! Islam is a terrible religion, Right?

Islam is perfect. People are not.

Islam is the only religion that teaches the worship of 1 God and associate no partners with Him. Other religion call their followers to worship their respective prophets and idols. It doesn't make sense to go from worship of 1 God to worship of many gods or other than the 1 True God. But if they want to, Who is to stop them? Peace

Dear Mr. Eboo Patel,
Are you aware of recent news, what happen in North western province of Pakistan?? I tell you what actually happened. Your beloved Islamic Fanatics have blown up an Ancient Statue of Lord Buddha with explosive. This Relic of Lord Buddha was situated on the road side mountain, near Khyber Pass, inside Pakistan territory [this incident happened about three weeks ago]. The statue of Lord Buddha was there for last sixteen hundred years. This Barbaric and heinous criminal act of vandalism is the reminiscence of the destruction Bamiyan Buddha in Afghanistan.
so Mr. Patel has to explain us, why these Muslim thugs have done so? What rationality they have to do such crime? Doesn't prove that Your religion is most intolerant amongst all other religions? You have to admit that Pakistan is a dangerous place on earth and infested by Islamic terrorists and Islamic Theological fanatics.
Buddhism is most peaceful and accommodating religion, and It preaches peace and universal Brotherhood; they are non violent and staunchly believe on Nonviolence and harmonious coexistence. I must have to admit that You and Your religion are just the opposite.

Sami Q

Please read the Koran, hadiths and Sirat Rasulallah.

Muhammad, thru his mouthpiece, the Arabic god Allah, did not give equal rights to women. Here are examples:

1) Muhammad commanded men to beat their wives but not vice versa

2) Muhammad gave women half the share of inheritance that their male siblings get, knowing fully well that millions of women are the sole breadwinners in the family. Muhammad was kept by Khadija until he fooled her into marrying him.

3) Men can have four husbands at a time but women do not have simialr privileges.

4) Men can have concubines but women cannot have lovers that they are not married to

5) men can have sex with their slave girls. Women cannot have sex with their slave boys.

6) Men can divorce their wives by simply uttering "talaaq" thrice. Women find it very difficult to divorce their husbands.

Muslim women know Qur'an sanction "wife beating" is serious trouble and they speak about it:

Wife Beating in Islam - "The woman is totally isolated"

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ouztv-tRPKM

Mr Eboo Patel, Victoria, Sami Qureshi and otehr Muslims who are part of this blog agree that

1) banning non-Muslims from Mecca and Medina is wrong and discrimnatory? That they should be allowed to enter Mecca and Medina?

2)non-Muslims should be allowed to worship in public anywhere in Muslim countries?

3) non-Muslims should be allowed to build their places of worship anywhere in Muslim countries just as Muslims are allowed to build mosques in non-Muslim countries and that should include Mecca and Medina?

4) That non-Muslims should be allowed to preach their faith to Muslims so that Muslims have a free choice of leaving Islam?

Are Muslims willing to openly condemn Saudi Arabia for practicing this Islamic apartheid?

Mr. Ted Baines,
I really enjoyed your comments with fine references.
You quoted the last sermon " You have rights over your wives and they have rights over you."
There is no ambiguity in it. Both are empowered equally. Further proceedings are carried out through Shariah as well as Family Laws of different nations. She/he can also beat the husband/wife if the custom of that nation allows to do so. The purpose is only to maintain an equilibrium in the society. In any society, if equilibrium is maintained then you have to believe that islamic code is at work.

Wow, the discussion here is like a long advertisement for atheism! But I guess these unmoderated comment boards serve a purpose if they keep the extreme nuts on both sides sitting at their computers rather than out in the world doing real harm...

Muslims doing the hajj is akin to a white person who continues to be a member of a private club that knowingly discriminates against people of color and does not allow them to be members. Muhammad, through his mouthpiece Allah, forbade entry by non-Muslims into Mecca and this ban is an integral part of Islam. Any Muslim who does the hajj is condoning this evil apartheid.

A decent Muslim will, as a first, condemn this apartheid and then boycott the hajj until the discrimination stops.

2 million Muslims visit the kaaba every year and spend about 5000 dollars each, that is a total of 10 billion. This money would be better spent on education as there very few good educational facilities in the Muslim world. That is why Muslims risk their lives to come to the west. I know personally a devout Muslim, rabid hater of Jews and Americans, who gave up a propserous car dealership in Kuwait and came here for the purpose of giving his children a good education which he said is non existent in his native Pakistan, the rich Middle East and just about any other Muslim country.

By doing the hajj you are condoning the Islamic apartheid in Saudi Arabia. This apartheid was put in place by prophet Muhammad who say " Two deens should not exist in Muslim lands."

I would have had no problems with this shameful Islamic apartheid if Muslims did not migrate to en masse to the west and demand freedom of religion.

Finally if your Arabic god Allah will not be pleased if the 10 billion is spent on eductaion instead of the wasteful pagan pilgrimage, then you should ask yourself:

Is this Arabic god Allah worth worshipping?

yoga is unity too.

you know MArie Anthoniette, french queen, with "you have no bread? have sweet bread then"

thymuse gland is sweet bread. with it, the body is sweet and breathful. body is referred as bread.

Archangel Raphael is known with sweet, breath and inspiration.

Mr Bush had offered a bill that there is divine wisdom on earth in the universe to create, which was subject to secularism in the Senate.

it is Andreas IDRIS of wisdom, grandfather of Noah, after Adam, i had met www.enoughproject.org on the internet, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Enoch

ALIEN is who loves Ali of Muhammed. Ali is Husband of Muhammed's Daughter Fatima. Ali is Son of Muhammed's Uncle. Ali is FAther of Muhammed's Grandsons. Ali is lion. Ali is Deer. Ali is Dove. Ali is the door to Science and Wisdom.

11/9 of World Trade Towers in New York, where Boeing planes crashed into, is a matter of Churchill MArlborough FAmily Trade Union.

the reader must differentiate Muhammed, Ali, Fatima and his grandsons from Emevi Caliphates, that had tortured 12 generations of grandsons of Beloved Muhammed.

Muhammed is known with Buddha, in spiritual circles. we shall heal the church. this is a must.

"cons tant in police" we shall study much so much that we shall be in the civilization, like Pinoccio and all had been Children with the Blue Fairy. cons: to study, tant: much so much that, police: city, civilization.

"con st ant in police" "with st anthony in the city", saint of passengers, and lost ships. donkeys can swim too : )

thymuse gland is in the upper chest. it is "pear, honey, wine, abihayat, bengisu, holy grail, sweet breads", center of health and immune system, turquoise colur. like the honey of the pine. like the pear of the tree.

this thymuse gland is in Yoga the intsrument of enlightenment. with reflexology, i call it re-flexology, science and wisdom of movement without breaking, spirituality comes together to get Her language, language of Grace and Love and Faith.

father is with faither, to her. son is with the sun. do you know chrysanthemum, golden flower? yes it is for Jesus Cheerist.

i have given you what i have. this is ZEKAT. i have added what is in my heart and wisdom. ZEKA-T.

for NAMAZ, i can say NAMASTE, the greeting. and for Namaz, i can say "there is least of vapour around, lets have some, NEM AZ", here vapour is for light around us.

have a nice day, dear author, have a nice day.

Who represents the muslim or musalman religion. a pakistani muslim or a bangladeshi, or a indonesian, indian, african or last of all but not the least arabian muslim. Ofcourse do not forget the most pious of all, OSAMA and his cohorts. The true believers.

Religion or faith is based on truth and dignity of all living things.....follow that and you got the true religion and you will meet your very own "GOD" Allah, Jesus, Om, Buddha so on and so forth.

I quote the real version of the last sermon from Sirat Rasulallah by Ibn Ishaq, the first biography of Muhammad. Page 651 in the 17th reimpression by the Oxford University Press, translation by A. Guillaume

Here is a line from the same last sermon:

"You have rights over your wives and they have rights over you. You have the right that they should not defile your bed and that they should not behave with open unseemliness. If they do , Allah allows you to put them in separate rooms and to beat them but not with severity."

Sami Qureshi

You agreed that Muhammad in the Koran, verse 4:34 recommended the beating of wives. Nowhere in the Koran does it say beat "lightly". Nor does the Koran command wives to beat disobedient husbands. In fact husbands need not obey their wives.

Since we both agree that Islam allows wife beating, can it then be a message for all times for all humans?

Mr. Ted Baines
The comments (No.119)that I sent was in response to your question. That was not anonymous.

Mr. Ted Baines,
You referred the Surah "Al-Nisa"(One of the Chapters of the Holy Quran). This Surah is not about the beating of Women. It covers all the aspects of life of womanhood from the day of her birth to the end. If the question of adultery, mischief, anti-social behaviour comes into knowledge of the husband and the society or community is going to be rotten with her activities,then he has been directed first try to request her to abide the social code, if she fails to listen the request then try to convince her by arguments, if she even does not refrain herself from immoral activities, then finally apply force, even after it, if she does not amend, then husband is allowed to divorce her.
Mr. Ted Baines, there is nothing beating wives in Islam. Islamophobia has blinded the West. Quran is very easy to study and understand but needs thorough knowledge of the universal society, human beings, factors / forces / values of the time in which you are living are very important to reach at the truth of Islam, other wise, people like Patels and Dr. Daves are rolling hither and thither for bread with hollow minds.

A few new book titles:

1. Hallucinogens and Hallucinations, The Basis of Islam.

2. Fermented Grapes, the Basis of OT and NT Myths and Embellishments.

By all means let us welcome Muslim culture to the US. Let us all adopt Shariah, gown our women in head to toe garments, separate the boys from the girls in schools, or better yet not send the girls to school. Lets all become good muslims and submit to the teaching of the man who said you can kill those who don't believe your religion and whose writings inspire people to kill each other including women and children. Sounds like the making of a great spin off for this sitcom.

Sami Qureshi

Muhamamd recomemnded the beating of wives. Is this part of your universal code for all humankind?

Ethics and morality change so please do not judge Muhamamd by today's standars. That is what Muslims tell us when we point out the sexual relations the prophet had with children when he was in his late fifties.

For a self-proclaimed prophet to continue doing the same immoral acts and in fact add many more immoral rules of his own by calling it 'revelation', is thoroughly shameful.

Why did he not get a revelation for not having sex with children?
Why no revelation about abolishing slavery?

He had a chance to change this world for the better, instead like all corrupt leaders, he did exactly the opposite.

Concerned the Christian....
Well done, but the semetic religions alongwith anecdotes and beliefs, are the derivatives of the religions and beliefs once the ancient North African tribes practised and got recognition from the great Pharahos, who became the custodians of those practices. Moses was not the first man who brought those beliefs to Senai. The Egyptians had extended their authority beyond the Caucasian plateau and their religion was even making great changes in lands of the Aryans before Moses, Jesus and Mohammad(pbuh). But these are history. Islam is not history. It is the latest code of life that would come under change with the change of time. Similarly, this code of life is not for a particular people or area, it is for all mankind, who are divided in races, cultures, behaviours, nationalities and so on and have to be preserved and respected.

You are doing what your religion taught for centuries but devils seldom flourish. Your neighbours were certainly not responsible when your sister eloped with a South Asian Muslim and converted to Islam. As you know Islam is spreading and casting its deep influences, despite lunatic propaganda.
Mr. Patel, I am sorry for you.

Shlomo,

"Allah"? Something else "Ole Mo" and his boys borrowed/plagiarized from the ancients:

"In pre-Islamic Arabia, Allah was used by pagan Meccans as a reference to the creator-god, possibly the supreme deity.[4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allah

But hey, "Ole Gabriel of the NT" aka a "pwtfft" came to "Ole Mo's" rescue during his 30 day "fast" in that cave and the rest is "history". Rumor has it that his wives brought him not only food but also hashish, tobacco in a smoking pipe and a bit of "coke" during the non-fasting evenings. Islam is based on addictive drugs ???? Hmmmm?????

ccnl- let the anti-semite rage on. he cannot contain his soul and must testify to his hatred. his heart speaks.

Radioislam.org/jewish-photos/ Hmmm, now there is a source of non-biased information. Give us a break!!!!

For some non-biased research:

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Cyprus/8815/pranaitis.html

"The Reverend I.B. Pranaitis was a turn-of-the-century Russian anti-Semite who was "Master of Theology and Professor of the Hebrew Language at the Imperial Ecclesiastical Academy of the Roman Catholic Church" in Old St.Petersburg, Russia. He also had a criminal record. In 1892, with the support of his Archbishop, he published an anti-Semitic tract in Latin called "Christianus in Talmude Iudaeorum" or as it became known in English, "The Talmud Unmasked, The Secret Rabbinical Teachings Concerning Christians" which was translated into English by American anti-Semites around 1939.

Pranaitis is revered by anti-Semites as a "Talmud Scholar". For example at a hate-site on the Web, http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/factindx.htm#Facts are Facts we find "The Rev. Pranaitis was the greatest of the students of the Talmud. His complete command of the Hebrew language qualified him to analyze the Talmud as few men in history". (Interestingly, a vast majority of the Talmud is not even written in Hebrew, but this minor problem will be ignored for the moment.) The reality concerning this "scholar" is very different as was even proven in an anti-Semitic court.

This occurred in the infamous "blood libel" case of Mendel Beiliss in Russia in 1912 where Beiliss was accused of murdering a Christian child to take his blood for alleged Jewish rituals and to put in Passover Matzah (unleavened bread). (Incidentally, the first known "blood libel" case occurred in Norwich, England in 1144.)

Pranaitis was called as a prosecution witness to testify to the allegedly horrible things said about Christians in the Talmud. His credibility, however, was quickly destroyed by the defence who asked him a few basic questions which anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the Talmud would be expected to know:

The particular questions that Panaitis was asked under cross-examination that completely destroyed his credibility were as follows:

Q: What is the meaning of the word Hullin?
A: I don't know.
("Hullin" means "ordinary produce" in Hebrew as opposed to "sanctified produce".)

Q: What is the meaning of the word Erubin?
A: I don't know.
("Erubin" means "domains which have been set up to allow Jews to carry outside their homes on the Sabbath".)

Q: What is the meaning of the word Yevamot?
A: I don't know.
("Yevamot" means "brothers in law in reference to Leverite marriage - a certain type of marriage relating to the command to marry one's dead brother's wife if he died without children".)

Q: When did Baba Bathra live and what was her activity?
A: I don't know.
(Baba Bathra was not a person but it is a Talmudic Tractate.)

Concerned The Christian Now Liberated,

This just shows your ignorance.
Allah is the God of Semite people.
See this Cardinal for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasrallah_Cardinal_Sfeir

His name is Victory of Allah!

You are brainwashed!

Allah is used by humans before Mohammad.
What does Evolution has to do with God. These are two orthogonal concepts.

The name Allah is a contraction of Al and Ilah: The Deity!

The rest of your arguments are not worth responding to.

Shlomo,

As I figured, you have no answer for the historical facts.

And Muslims commit adultery by having multiple wives.

And Muslims don't drink alcohol? So what. A glass of red wine/day is good for the heart.

And Muslims don't gamble? Hmmm, but they do have some of the best race horses and you can bet they bet on them.

And there are one billion plus Muslims in the world because of "sword-forced" conversion and forced procreation. Considering the contemporary Islamic truth/death squads and "koranic" rules, things have not changed. Give freedom to the Muslim masses trapped under Islamic tyranny and watch what happens.

Any idea how many Muslims have access to this discussion?? Not many!!!!!

And if you want to heal yourself from all this Islamic brainwashing follow the following steps:

"30 qualities are connected to the heart"
(five at a time)

"1. Belief in Allah"

No problem but "aka as God, Yahweh, Zeus, Jehovah, Mother Nature, etc." should be added to your beliefs.

"2. To believe that everything other than Allah was non-existent. Thereafter, Allah Most High created these things and subsequently they came into existence."

Not really!!!! Evolution and the Big Bang cannot be ignored and the "akas" for Allah should be included if you are going to go with creation theory.

"3. To believe in the existence of angels."

A major item to delete. Angels/devils are the mythical creations of ancient civilizations, e.g. Hittites, to explain/define natural events, contacts with their gods, big birds, sudden winds, protectors during the dark nights, etc. No "pretty/ugly wingy thingies" ever visited or talked to Mohammed, Jesus, Mary or Joseph or Joe Smith. Today we would classify angels as fairies and "tinker bells". Modern devils are classified as the demons of the demented.

"4. To believe that all the heavenly books that were sent to the different prophets are true. However, apart from the Quran, all other books are not valid anymore."

Another major item to delete. There are no books written in Heaven just as there are no angels to write/publish/distribute them. The Koran, OT, NT etc. are simply books written by humans for humans.

Prophets were invented by ancient scribes typically to keep the uneducated masses in line. Today we call them fortune tellers.

Prophecies are also invalidated by the natural/God/Allah gifts of Free Will and Future.

"5. To believe that all the prophets are true. However, we are commanded to follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) alone."

Mohammed spent thirty days fasting in a hot cave before his first contact with Allah aka God etc. via a "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingy". Common sense demands a deletion of #5. #5 is also the major source of Islamic violence i.e. turning Mohammed's "fast, hunger-driven" hallucinations into horrible reality for unbelievers.

Jewish children send 'love' messages
to Lebanese children
Pictures!!!

look at the real terrorists!

http://www.radioislam.org/jewish-photos/index.htm

Hint:

You mark yourself as a liar and cheat when you post under different names but make the same spelling errors in all your posts. Ugh.

What is this? Is this true?
This is most disturbing.

Any Jewish friend care to clarify this?

Anne

The Secret Jewish Rabbinical Teachings Concerning Christians

http://www.radioislam.org/talmud/talmudi.htm

I Am speechless!!!!

Jewish Racism towards Non-Jews as expressed in the Talmud

"The modern Jew is the product of the Talmud..."
"Babylonian Talmud", published by the Boston Talmud Society, p. XII

The Jews refer to the remainder of Earths inhabitants, the non-Jewish peoples, as "Gentiles", "Goyim". Let's see what the Jewish Talmud teaches the Jews concerning the non-Jewish majority, i.e. those who are not part of Jahve's "Chosen People":

"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."

Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."

Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form."

Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."

Coschen hamischpat 405

"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."

Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b

"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."

Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b

"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."

Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b

"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."

Jore dea 377, 1

"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."

Talmud Sanhedrin 74b

"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."

Sepher ikkarim III c 25

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."

Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."

Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b

"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."

Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772

Unbelievable! Look how racists these Jews are:

FROM THEIR OWN SOURCES!!!

Wake up America!

Jewish Racism towards Non-Jews as expressed in the Talmud

http://www.radioislam.org/islam/english/toread/jewras.htm

Judaism a religion of Terrorists?

http://jews-for-allah.org/whats-new/israeli_terrorists_judaism.htm

Anonymous:

You say I demonstrated hate. Can you show me where?

I mentioned facts. I love Jesus and hate those who killed him. This is love, not hate! If you didn't kill him, I would not have hated you.

If someone called your mother a bad women (four-letter word), do you return to him and say: I love you?

You call the Mother of Christ in your un-holly books a who*re. What do you expect?!

We meet under the thrown of our Lord on Judgment Day and we shall see who has least in support and weak in defense.

Shlomo

P.S. Jesus was not killed, but saved by Allah from the Jewish evil-doers. They still killed him as the intent is enough.

thanks alot -shlomo-

in your short posts, you have destroyed ebrahim patel's disiplined efforts to convince wapo readers that islam is the religion of peace and love.

well, its international quds day and your mosque's rantings of hate inspired you.

ebrahim patel- the truth is out and i feel sad for you..

More at

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Why-Believe-in-Allah/What-non-Muslims-sayabout-Muhammad.htm

Again, do NOT let Christ-killers deceive you!

Shalom!

my question has to do with your accreditations summary. You are on the National Committee of the Aga Khan Foundation? Why would you represent a man who proclaims he is God incarnated to millions of people? Why you take funds or a prestigious title from a man who several million people bow down to, and who has created a prayer for them that includes seeking help from him? Why would you associate yourself with a man who has french diplomatic status (why??), british, and swiss citizenship and a mass of brown people bowing to him?
Why on earth would you have anything to do with someone who's grandfather's commited treason and helped the British Imperialistis powers bring down the Ottoman Empire and the divide Muslim India?
Why would you have the name of a man who gives microcredit to poor individuals and takes interest from them? The Aga Khan's "philanthropy"in Afghanistan: 5 star Serena Hotels so the warlords and foreigner can be comfortable and buying up all the telecommunications towers in the country so he and hence The West controls the countries entire ability to communicate.

And youre worried about a sitcom???? Youve played right into the powers that have perpetuated this.

Reverend Bosworth Smith in 'Muhammad and Muhammadanism,' London, 1874.

"Head of the State as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but he was Pope without the Pope's pretensions, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without a standing army, without a bodyguard, without a police force, without a fixed revenue. If ever a man ruled by a right divine, it was Muhammad, for he had all the powers without their supports. He cared not for the dressings of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life."

"In Mohammadanism every thing is different here. Instead of the shadowy and the mysterious, we have history....We know of the external history of Muhammad....while for his internal history after his mission had been proclaimed, we have a book absolutely unique in its origin, in its preservation....on the Substantial authority of which no one has ever been able to cast a serious doubt."

Edward Montet, 'La Propagande Chretienne et ses Adversaries Musulmans,' Paris 1890. (Also in T.W. Arnold in 'The Preaching of Islam,' London 1913.)

"Islam is a religion that is essentially rationalistic in the widest sense of this term considered etymologically and historically....the teachings of the Prophet, the Qur'an has invariably kept its place as the fundamental starting point, and the dogma of unity of God has always been proclaimed therein with a grandeur a majesty, an invariable purity and with a note of sure conviction, which it is hard to find surpassed outside the pale of Islam....A creed so precise, so stripped of all theological complexities and consequently so accessible to the ordinary understanding might be expected to possess and does indeed possess a marvelous power of winning its way into the consciences of men."

Dr. Gustav Weil in 'History of the Islamic Peoples'

Muhammad was a shining example to his people. His character was pure and stainless. His house, his dress, his food - they were characterized by a rare simplicity. So unpretentious was he that he would receive from his companions no special mark of reverence, nor would he accept any service from his slave which he could do for himself. He was accessible to all and at all times. He visited the sick and was full of sympathy for all. Unlimited was his benevolence and generosity as also was his anxious care for the welfare of the community.

Alphonse de LaMartaine in 'Historie de la Turquie,' Paris, 1854.

"Never has a man set for himself, voluntarily or involuntarily, a more sublime aim, since this aim was superhuman; to subvert superstitions which had been imposed between man and his Creator, to render God unto man and man unto God; to restore the rational and sacred idea of divinity amidst the chaos of the material and disfigured gods of idolatry, then existing. Never has a man undertaken a work so far beyond human power with so feeble means, for he (Muhammad) had in the conception as well as in the execution of such a great design, no other instrument than himself and no other aid except a handful of men living in a corner of the desert. Finally, never has a man accomplished such a huge and lasting revolution in the world, because in less than two centuries after its appearance, Islam, in faith and in arms, reigned over the whole of Arabia, and conquered, in God's name, Persia Khorasan, Transoxania, Western India, Syria, Egypt, Abyssinia, all the known continent of Northern Africa, numerous islands of the Mediterranean Sea, Spain, and part of Gaul.

"If greatness of purpose, smallness of means, and astonishing results are the three criteria of a human genius, who could dare compare any great man in history with Muhammad? The most famous men created arms, laws, and empires only. They founded, if anything at all, no more than material powers which often crumbled away before their eyes. This man moved not only armies, legislations, empires, peoples, dynasties, but millions of men in one-third of the then inhabited world; and more than that, he moved the altars, the gods, the religions, the ideas, the beliefs and the souls.

"On the basis of a Book, every letter which has become law, he created a spiritual nationality which blend together peoples of every tongue and race. He has left the indelible characteristic of this Muslim nationality the hatred of false gods and the passion for the One and Immaterial God. This avenging patriotism against the profanation of Heaven formed the virtue of the followers of Muhammad; the conquest of one-third the earth to the dogma was his miracle; or rather it was not the miracle of man but that of reason.

"The idea of the unity of God, proclaimed amidst the exhaustion of the fabulous theogonies, was in itself such a miracle that upon it's utterance from his lips it destroyed all the ancient temples of idols and set on fire one-third of the world. His life, his meditations, his heroic revelings against the superstitions of his country, and his boldness in defying the furies of idolatry, his firmness in enduring them for fifteen years in Mecca, his acceptance of the role of public scorn and almost of being a victim of his fellow countrymen: all these and finally, his flight his incessant preaching, his wars against odds, his faith in his success and his superhuman security in misfortune, his forbearance in victory, his ambition, which was entirely devoted to one idea and in no manner striving for an empire; his endless prayers, his mystic conversations with God, his death and his triumph after death; all these attest not to an imposture but to a firm conviction which gave him the power to restore a dogma. This dogma was twofold the unity of God and the immateriality of God: the former telling what God is, the latter telling what God is not; the one overthrowing false gods with the sword, the other starting an idea with words.

"Philosopher, Orator, Apostle, Legislator, Conqueror of Ideas, Restorer of Rational beliefs.... The founder of twenty terrestrial empires and of one spiritual empire that is Muhammad. As regards all standards by which human greatness may be measured, we may well ask, is there any man greater than he?"

Mahatma Gandhi, statement published in 'Young India,'1924.

I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life.

Sir George Bernard Shaw in 'The Genuine Islam,' Vol. 1, No. 8, 1936.

"If any religion had the chance of ruling over England, nay Europe within the next hundred years, it could be Islam."

“I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion for from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Savior of Humanity."

"I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.

DO NOT LET THE JEW DECEIVE YOU!

A. S. Tritton in 'Islam,' 1951

The picture of the Muslim soldier advancing with a sword in one hand and the Qur'an in the other is quite false.

---------------------------------
De Lacy O'Leary in 'Islam at the Crossroads,' London, 1923.

History makes it clear, however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.

---------------------------------
Gibbon in 'The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire' 1823

The good sense of Muhammad despised the pomp of royalty. The Apostle of God submitted to the menial offices of the family; he kindled the fire; swept the floor; milked the ewes; and mended with his own hands his shoes and garments. Disdaining the penance and merit of a hermit, he observed without effort of vanity the abstemious diet of an Arab.

-------------------------------------

Edward Gibbon and Simon Oakley in ‘History of the Saracen Empire,’ London, 1870

"The greatest success of Mohammad’s life was effected by sheer moral force."

“It is not the propagation but the permanency of his religion that deserves our wonder, the same pure and perfect impression which he engraved at Mecca and Medina is preserved after the revolutions of twelve centuries by the Indian, the African and the Turkish proselytes of the Koran....The Mahometans have uniformly withstood the temptation of reducing the object of their faith and devotion to a level with the senses and imagination of man. ‘I believe in One God and Mahomet the Apostle of God’ is the simple and invariable profession of Islam. The intellectual image of the Deity has never been degraded by any visible idol; the honors of the prophet have never transgressed the measure of human virtue, and his living precepts have restrained the gratitude of his disciples within the bounds of reason and religion.”

--------------------------------------------
Lane-Poole in 'Speeches and Table Talk of the Prophet Muhammad'

He was the most faithful protector of those he protected, the sweetest and most agreeable in conversation. Those who saw him were suddenly filled with reverence; those who came near him loved him; they who described him would say, "I have never seen his like either before or after." He was of great taciturnity, but when he spoke it was with emphasis and deliberation, and no one could forget what he said...

-------------------------------
Annie Besant in 'The Life and Teachings of Mohammad,' Madras, 1932.

It is impossible for anyone who studies the life and character of the great Prophet of Arabia, who knew how he taught and how he lived, to feel anything but reverence for that mighty Prophet, one of the great messengers of the Supreme. And although in what I put to you I shall say many things which may be familiar to many, yet I myself feel, whenever I reread them, a new way of admiration, a new sense of reverence for that mighty Arabian teacher.

-----------------------------------------
W.C. Taylor in 'The History of Muhammadanism and its Sects'

So great was his liberality to the poor that he often left his household unprovided, nor did he content himself with relieving their wants, he entered into conversation with them, and expressed a warm sympathy for their sufferings. He was a firm friend and a faithful ally.

Thomas Carlyle in 'Heroes and Hero Worship and the Heroic in History,' 1840

"The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man (Muhammad) are disgraceful to ourselves only."

"A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world, the world’s Maker had ordered so."

Muhammad in The Jewish Bible

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/

Married idolatrous wives and became like them;

Ezra 9:1 "But then the Jewish leaders came to me and said, "Many of the people of Israel, and even some of the priests and Levites, have not kept themselves separate from the other peoples living in the land. They have taken up the detestable practices of the Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Ammonites, Moabites, Egyptians, and Amorites."

9:2 "For the men of Israel have married women from these people and have taken them as wives for their sons. So the holy race has become polluted by these mixed marriages. To make matters worse, the officials and leaders are some of the worst offenders."

Ezra 10:18 "These are the priests who had married pagan wives: From the family of Jeshua son of Jehozadak and his brothers: Maaseiah, Eliezer, Jarib, and Gedaliah."

Lovely Bible!

Re: Concerned The Christian Now Liberated:

They are One Thousand Million Human being who do NOT
drink alcohol, gamble, commit adultery, etc.

All this because of a man called Mohammad.

Who the **** are you? Your are nothing! Just a parrot!

Do NOT let the Jews deceive you.
It's enough that they are already wasting your blood for their wars (new-cons = Jews)

For Jewish myths about Islam see:

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/jewish-mythson-islam/

Myth: The Quran never mentions Jerusalem

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/jewish-mythson-islam/jerusalem-in-quran.htm

Haha! LOL.

It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads. Menahoth 43b-44a .

Lovely Talmud!

Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix it with honey and eat it.

Lovely Talmud!

Sholmo,

I see you have been "googling" the embellished history of Islam with the assistance of your "pwtfft" no doubt.

A thorough synopsis of contemporary religions to include Islam is shown below. Most commentators on this blog have seen the synopsis before. I don't think you have. Please peruse it and comment with an "op-ed" as needed.

1. Abraham founder/father of three major religions was probably a mythical character. If he was real, he was at best a combination of at least three men. 1.5 million Conservative Jews and their rabbis have relegated Abraham to the myth pile along with most if not all the OT.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/ConservativeTorah.htm

2. Jesus, the illiterate Jewish peasant/carpenter possibly suffering from hallucinations, has been characterized anywhere from the Messiah from Nazareth to a mythical character from mythical Nazareth to a mamzer (Professor Bruce Chilton in his book, Rabbi Jesus). Analyses of his life by many contemporary NT scholars (e.g. Professors Crossan, Borg and Fredriksen, On Faith panelists)via the NT and related documents have concluded that only about 30% of Jesus' sayings and ways noted in the NT were authentic. The rest being embellishments (e.g. miracles)/hallucinations made/had by the NT authors to impress various Christian, Jewish and Pagan sects.

The 30% of the NT that is "authentic Jesus" like everything in life was borrowed/plagiarized and/or improved from those who came before. In Jesus' case, it was the ways and sayings of the Babylonians, Greeks, Persians, Egyptians, Hittites, Canaanites, OT, John the Baptizer and possibly the ways and sayings of traveling Greek Cynics.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html

3. Mohammed, an illiterate, warmongering, womanizing, hallucinating, long-dead Arab, also had embellishing/hallucinating/plagiarizing scribal biographers who not only added "angels" and flying chariots to the koran but also a militaristic agenda to support the plundering and looting of the lands of non-believers.

This agenda continues as shown by the conduct of the seven Muslim doctors in the UK, the 9/11 terrorists, the 24/7 Sunni suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the 24/7 Shiite suicide/roadside/market/mosque bombers, the Islamic train bombers in the UK and Spain, the Bali crazies, the Kenya crazies, the Pakistani koranics, the Palestine suicide bombers/rocketeers, the Lebanese nutcases and the Filipino koranics.

And who funds these acts of terror? The Islamic terror theocracy of Iran, the Third Axis of Evil and also the "Wannabees" of Saudi Arabia.

4. Luther, Calvin, Smith, Henry VIII, Wesley et al, founders of Christian-based religions, also suffered from the belief in/hallucinations of "pretty wingy talking flying fictional thingie" visits and "prophecies" for profits analogous to the myths of Catholicism (resurrections, apparitions, ascensions and immaculate conceptions).

5. Hinduism (from an on-line Hindu site)- "Hinduism cannot be described as an organized religion. It is not founded by any individual. Hinduism is God centered and therefore one can call Hinduism as founded by God, because the answer to the question ‘Who is behind the eternal principles and who makes them work?’ will have to be ‘Cosmic power, Divine power, God’"

The caste/laborer system and cow worship are problems when saying a fair and rational God founded Hinduism."

6. Buddhism- "Buddhism began in India about 500 years before the birth of Christ. The people living at that time had become disillusioned with certain beliefs of Hinduism including the caste system, which had grown extremely complex. The number of outcasts (those who did not belong to any particular caste) was continuing to grow."

"However, in Buddhism, like so many other religions, fanciful stories arose concerning events in the life of the founder, Siddhartha Gautama (fifth century B.C.):"

Archaeological discoveries have proved, beyond a doubt, his historical character, but apart from the legends we know very little about the circumstances of his life.

Bottom line: There are many good ways of living but be aware of the hallucinations/embellishments and myths surrounding the "founders" of said rules of life.

Insults Against Mary the Jew, Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus' mother was a who*e: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b it is stated that in the "uncensored" text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, "Mary the hairdresser," had s*x with many men.

A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a Gentile, a woman or a slave. Shabbath 86a-86b.

Lovely Talmud!

Besides the Talmud being a book promoting hate towards non-Jews, it also promotes violence and self torment on the Jews as well;

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Lovely Talmud!

follow מַחֲמַד !!!

Arif:,

Allow me to retort!
You have not given any counter argument. Just hate speech!

Read more about the fantastic jewish bible at

http://www.jews-for-allah.org/the-Jewish-Bible/

REAL FUNNY!

follow מַחֲמַד !!!

Sholmo,
The more you post the more you expose the Islamic mindset; this is not a complement by the way. Islam is the creation of Mohammed. Many thousand years ago primitive-man lived in caves. Primitive-woman through constant nagging forced primitive-man out of the cave and forced him to build her a home and furniture; pots and pans followed. Humans never dwelt or visited caves again.

It was the Jews who established the 10 commandments, Christians later revisited Jewish teachings and brought about some of their own. Marriage was still between one adult man and one adult woman exceptions were there. All killing, rape, looting, highway robbery, enslaving woman, illicit sexual encounters were all against the original Jewish 10 commandments.

Then came a man named Mohammed and anointed himself prophet. His life was spent fighting, killing, raping, enslaving, warring, looting, marrying and married a child. Also, he spent 23 or so years visiting a CAVE to get revelations from a Judaeo-Christian character. His Allah never talked to him directly but through this borrowed Jewish/Christian angel. Because of those cave hallucinations of this war lord we have today a highly volatile people called Muslims.

What good is it for you to tell us how many followers you have or who they are when Islam’s founder and his text as I have described above are very flawed?

Oooh..Shlomo..you deceitful liar.

You've been outed!

Hey!

Have yourself a hate-filled little Quds Day!

Muslims, especially the ones from the Middle East, are finding it difficult to assimilate, even before the events of 9-11. This is mainly due to their mindset. Theirs is a tribalistic world view that denigrates the "other" especially if that other is an infidel, as they view non- Muslims.The good news is that more and more of those who live in the West are beginnig to show some flexibility in their interaction with the host culture.

Here to celebrate the International Day of Quds?

Readers who are unfamiliar with Quds -please run a short googlenews and educate yourself.

How to disprove Christianity in under a minute!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=z8D0xCanmls

My friends-

Do not believe every spirit -but test the spirits to see if they are True -because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

The jews instead of debating the teachings of Islam, they always point to the fact that Mohammad had 11 wives. As if this is an argument?

First of all, if this qualifies a man from being a good man, then how can you justify your Bible who calls Solomon who had 1000 wives as Son of God?!
Either your Bible is a liar and should be thrown in the garbage or you have double standards.

Now, let analyze the life of The Final Apostle of Allah.

He lived in the most liberal city of Earth (prostitution was inside the city; unlike Las vegas.) Did he go to prostitutes? Did he drink Alcohol? Did he go to parties with mixed sexes?
NO, No, No!

At age 25 he got proposal to marry his boss (40 yrs) He accepted. Why would a man marry a divorced woman who is 15 yrs older than him? Lust? NO!

He remained married to this same woman until the age of 53 (ten years before he died).

Does this account show a lustful man? Be honest! Do not allow racism to alter your judgment.

After becoming a commander in chief in Medina (the last ten years of his life), he married more than one wife. Did he invent pologimy ? No! It was there practiced by everybody!

All his wives were non virgins, except one!
Is this a behavior of a lustful man? No!

My friends,
leaders of that time had to marry from other cultures to keep the peace. He married a Coptic, from other tribes, and a jew.

Shalom!

There are six things the LORD hates. Indeed: seven are an abomination to Him.

--a proud spirit with haughty eyes

--a lying tonque

--hands that shed innocent blood

--a heart that devises wicked thoughts and plans

--feet that are swift in running to evil

--a false witness who breathes out lies under oath

--he who sows discord among his own brothers

http://jews-for-allah.org/

Listen to this mp3

http://media.snunit.k12.il/kodeshm/mp3/t3005.mp3

recording of a Jewish recital
of their scripture. Seek to time 02:14

Recognize the Name MOHAMMAD?

Racists!

People reading this blog might be unaware of a significant fact regarding the jewish attitude towards the final Apostle of Allah Mohammad.

They Hate him!

Why? Because he was a Arab and not a Jew!

Ask yourself, why were a large concentration of jews in Medina? They were on a daily basis terrorizing the Arabs about the coming of their prophet and how they (the Jews) shall be victorious over the Arab Pagans.

When Mohammad became a prophet and migrated to Medina, The jews recognized him. Their chief Rabbi followed Mohammad, but the majority (due to their racism) supported the Pagans Arabs.

The Jews and Pagan Arabs were defeated. They never recovered! deal with it!

Mohammad's name is in their book, they recite it in their prayer, but they (the Jews) refuse to follow him because of a simple fact:

The Jews are racist!

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=375

Title:
What was Ayesha's (ra) Age at the Time of Her Marriage to the Prophet (pbuh)?

Question:

What was Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage?

It is normally believed that she was nine years old at the time of her marriage with Mohammad (sws) was consummated. I do think it was according to the traditions of the Arab culture, as otherwise people would have objected to this marriage. But unfortunately, the modern day man is not satisfied with an answer as simple as that.

Answer:

To begin with[1], I think it is the responsibility of all those who believe that marrying a girl as young as nine years old was an accepted norm of the Arab culture, to provide at least a few examples to substantiate their point of view. I have not yet been able to find a single reliable instance in the books of Arab history where a girl as young as nine years old was given away in marriage. Unless such examples are given, we do not have any reasonable grounds to believe that it really was an accepted norm.

In my opinion, the age of Ayesha (ra) has been grossly misreported in the narratives of the incident. Not only that, I think that the narratives reporting this event are not only highly unreliable but also that on the basis of other historical data, the event reported, is quite an unlikely happening. Let us look at the issue from an objective stand point. My reservations in accepting the narratives, on the basis of which, Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is held to be nine years are:

*

Most of these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `urwah reporting on the authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or three.
*

It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where Hisham ibn `urwah lived the first seventy-one years of his life has narrated the event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as Malik ibn Anas. All the narratives of this event have been reported by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported to have shifted after living in Medinah for seventy-one years.
*

Tehzeeb al-Tehzeeb, one of the most well known books on the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported by Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of Iraq". It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of Hisham, which were reported through people of Iraq (Vol. 11, pg. 48 - 51).
*

Meezaan al-Ai`tidaal, another book on the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, Hisham's memory suffered quite badly (Vol. 4, pg. 301 - 302).
*

According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha (ra) was born about eight years before Hijrah. However, according to another narrative in Bukhari (Kitaab al-Tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at the time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an , was revealed, "I was a young girl". The 54th Surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before Hijrah. According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only been born before the revelation of the referred Surah, but was actually a young girl (jariyah), not even only an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the narratives reported by Hisham ibn `urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `urwah, why should we not accept this narrative to be more accurate.
*

According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is also reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 years was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 years of age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and Uhud clearly indicates that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. After all, women used to accompany men to the battlefields to help them, not to be a burden upon them.
*

According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqreeb al-Tehzeeb as well as Al-Bidayah wa al-Nihayah that Asma (ra) died in the 73rd year after hijrah[2] when she was 100 years old. Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in the 73rd year after hijrah, she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, Ayesha (ra) - if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH - was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
*

Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah - the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH - the time she most likely got married.
*

According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not even have been born during the first year of Islam.
*

Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr (ra) planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am - with whose son Ayesha (ra) was engaged at that time - and asked him to take Ayesha (ra) in his house as his son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam. Subsequently, his son divorced Ayesha (ra). Now, if Ayesha (ra) was only seven years old at the time of her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable to assume that Ayesha (ra) had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was also a young lady, quite prepared for marriage.
*

According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, after the death of Khadijah (ra), when Khaulah (ra) came to the Prophet (pbuh) advising him to marry again, the Prophet (pbuh) asked her regarding the choices she had in her mind. Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already been married (thayyib)". When the Prophet (pbuh) asked about who the virgin was, Khaulah proposed Ayesha's (ra) name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware that the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine-year old girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is "Jariyah". "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a nine year old is not a "lady".
*

According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah (ra) was five years older than Ayesha (ra). Fatimah (ra) is reported to have been born when the Prophet (pbuh) was 35 years old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha (ra) could by no means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years old at the time of her marriage.

These are some of the major points that go against accepting the commonly known narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at the time of her marriage.

In my opinion, neither was it an Arab tradition to give away girls in marriage at an age as young as nine or ten years, nor did the Prophet (pbuh) marry Ayesha (ra) at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to this marriage, because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated.

1st May 1998

[1] The answer to this question is primarily based on the research by Habib ur Rahman Kandhalwi (urdu) as presented in his booklet, "Tehqiq e umar e Siddiqah e Ka'inat", Anjuman Uswa e hasanah, Karachi, Pakistan

[2] That is, the migration of the Prophet (pbuh)


Discussion(s) regarding this Question
1 A Further Exchange on Ayesha's Age...
2 Further Exchange on 'What was Ayesha's Age?'
3 Mr. Silas’ Response to ‘Ayesha’s (ra) Age’…
4 A 'Refutation' of Your Analysis of Ayesha's (ra) Age...
5 Regarding the Discussion Posted on 8th Januray 2002
6 Your Opinion regarding Ayesha's age at the Time of Marriage

Ted Baines,

This just shows your ignorance about Hadith. Hadith means talk! There are false talk, true talk and yet to be proved false talk.
Islamic sources keeps track of all historical accounts and clasify them. Jews burn what they deem not fit!

We are a nation of Sanad! Who are you??
You book the Bible HAS NO SANAD!

Hisham ibn `urwah who reports this (Ayesha's age is 9yrs) is a good man, but had problems with his memory after moving from Medina to Iraq. Alzheimer?

The false story about the age of Ayesha has been disputed my friend.

Here is a link to some material. Read it before propagating false statements.

http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/text.asp?type=question&qid=375

How many wives did Solomon have? around 1000!
He is still called a Son Of God in the Bible!!

Dear Humans,

Can you show me the word Judaism in the OT?
Can you show me the word Christianity in the OT/NT?

Why follow a religion whose name is absent from its own holly text?!

There is only one true religion: Islam.

Just follow the Holly Bible and it will show you the way.
Go back to the original text (bypassing the Evangelists!)

Here is my proof:

See Verse 16 in Ch 5 of Song of Songs at this location
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt3005.htm

Look at the Hebrew text. You will see the Name Mohammad (מַחֲמַדִּים) there! Just remove the "i" (י) and "m" (ם) used for making a noun plural.

follow מַחֲמַד !!!

Hello World!

"could you copy and paste exactly what it is that i said that leads you to believe that i am anti-american?"

Although your rambling posts litter these boards, I don't have time to cut and paste- I work.

Please share again your sentiments/sympathies for HAMAS.

i asasume youre talking to me-

chris- im just illustrating how people follow the herd when they dont even know what they're attacking.

could you copy and paste exactly what it is that i said that leads you to believe that i am anti-american?

was it my description of thanksgiving?

or that i found a tv show cute?

or maybe it was chastising the one callin ghim or herself buddhist for being racist?

as stated by the previous poster- it is getting patently ridiculous-

so chris youlive in a pluralistic society-
it is up to YOU to address your anti american prejudices and biases.

in doing fine here

These On Faith comment threads are becoming more ridiculous by the day. It's becoming a province of kooks.

Veronica:

Once again-

You have shown in your posts that you dislike America and are an avid follower of the Mo mindset. You seem to think being born in America is a free pass. You've apparently never heard of Islamotraitors like Adam Gadahn or John Walker Lindh.

"and im not going to move anywhere, why should i?
this is my born and raised home as my parents grand---etc...etc..."

Just because someone is born in America -doesn't mean they are loyal to American ideals. They may bring shame to their ancestors and fellow Americans.

kennth- you busted me- it was eactly my repulsive disfigured visage that i eagerly embraced the concept of shrouding myslef in the cool comfort of anonymity so the rest of the world didnt recoil in disgust and horror and repulsion every time they viewed the unfortunate spectre that is me.

i feel sooo much better now.

and what have you got against silliness one might ask?

arif- its victoria- you're not exactly proving your stelllar abitily to intake simple information and process it through your brain functions so that it comes out with some resemblance to the truth here.

and you dont seem to be able to make the simple distinction between politically motivated and religiously mandated actions.

and im not going to move anywhere, why should i?
this is my born and raised home as my parents grand---etc...etc...

YOU go somewhere else if you like

i can be a muslim here or anwhere-

daniel- just because you are not aware of something, doesnt mean it hasnt happened.

the reforms you keep callng for have gone through a variety of evolutions-

its not the religion that needs reformed but the political and social conditions of the people acting out that need reformed.

Anon, you flatter me; please feel free to send emails to whomever you please.

Veronica: under normal circumstances you would have been a smart person but Islam has taken control of your brain and you will soon become transparent if you have not already. Ablutions, five time prayers, superstitions, dietary requirements then gymnastics on a prayer rug can really take its toll you know. I highly recommend you live and work in an Islamic country of your choice for at least one year.

Please people once and for all, one cannot hijack a religion let alone ones own religion. This is a wrong statement made by some apologist post 9/11 and many picked up on it. Technically hijackers hijack planes take them off-course and/or kill the passengers to appease their gods; Allah in our case. This concept does not in any way apply to a religion. Religions are what they are and you can't hijack them. A hijacker, jihadi, fundamentalist cannot in any way hijack his/her religion they are simply acting out what their belief system dictates to them.
Also, all religions were NOT created equally some are prone to violence; Islam in our case is and can be violent, it solely depends upon who is behind this tool.

In my opinion, Islam and Christianity are mirror images of each other. The major difference now is that Christianity has been "defanged" by the reformation and the secularization of European and American society, so that many different views are allowed to co-exist. Islam has not yet been "defanged." But someday, it will be.

There is a very mean streak that runs through Islam. And there is obviously some strange phenomenon, that has to do with upgrading and reforming its Medeival teachings, that cause some devout believers to devolve rapidly into confusion and nihilsim.

I do not think that makes me Islamiphobic; but if some people choose to say that I am an Islamiphobe, that would not change my beliefs and fears regarding Islam. It is really the responsibility of Muslims to present their counter-argument that many people have against Islam.

EBOO PATEL:

Why won't you write of the REAL "Faith Divide" --the tragedy of Muslim against Muslim violence.

How can Allah be "most compassionate" when his followers proclaim his greatness (allahu akbar) while pillaging, raping, maiming,and murdering each other?

EBOO. Something is dreadfully WRONG in your belief system. Step up and address this or realize that your "Faith Divide" column is just a waste of time..

Just goes to show you that indeed religion is the source of evil and prejudice and in order to help heal the human species, we must recognize religion for what it really is: a memetic disease waiting to be vanquised in all of us.

Muslims the world over danced in the streets on September 11,2001.Most were tickled pink to see the wicked infidels punished by the Holy Martyrs of Islam,who as we all know,are up there in Paradise with all those sexy young virgins,having a great old time.I bet they're looking down on us and chuckling about how easy it was to crash those planes into the WTC,and how they felt no pain.
Unless,of course,they are just dead,like the thousands they murdered.

Victoria

Everywhere in the world,Islam is a pain in the butt.
And you,an American,chose the most violent religion to throw your weight behind.Maybe its because you look better veiled. Why else choose such a backward looking religion? Also you come across as more silly than smart,in your comments.

It is ironic that members of the Islamic tradition seek tolerance here in America while they do little to influence the intolerance of Islam as it is practiced elsewhere. I will respectfully demonstrate tolerance for any Muslim practicing his/her faith peacefully in this country. However, I cannot turn away from the fact that Islam is, as it demonstrates itself elsewhere to be, a religion highly intolerant. As you sow intolerance, so shall you reap. As a Muslim, you certainly have nothing to fear from your own religion's intolerance and probably have a difficult time perceiving it as such. However, for me, I have everything to fear because it is an egregious violation of human rights and dignity.

It is ironic that members of the Islamic tradition seek tolerance here in America while they do little to influence the intolerance of Islam as it is practiced elsewhere. I will respectfully demonstrate tolerance for any Muslim practicing his/her faith peacefully in this country. However, I cannot turn away from the fact that Islam is, as it demonstrates itself elsewhere to be, a religion highly intolerant. As you sow intolerance, so shall you reap. As a Muslim, you certainly have nothing to fear from your own religion's intolerance and probably have a difficult time perceiving it as such. However, for me, I have everything to fear because it is an egregious violation of human rights and dignity.

it's funny how 400 years later, americans still view blacks (african americans) as "aliens in american". 6 years in the making, muslims are an afterthought.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/04/deafschool.racial.incident/index.html

it's funny how 400 years later, americans still view blacks (african americans) as "aliens in american". 6 years in the making, muslims are an afterthought.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/04/deafschool.racial.incident/index.html

It is ironic that members of the Islamic tradition seek tolerance here in America while they do little to influence the intolerance of Islam as it is practiced elsewhere. I will respectfully demonstrate tolerance for any Muslim practicing his/her faith peacefully in this country. However, I cannot turn away from the fact that Islam is, as it demonstrates itself elsewhere to be, a religion highly intolerant. As you sow intolerance, so shall you reap. As a Muslim, you certainly have nothing to fear from your own religion's intolerance and probably have a difficult time perceiving it as such. However, for me, I have everything to fear because it is an egregious violation of human rights and dignity.

it's funny how 400 years later, americans still view blacks (african americans) as "aliens in american". 6 years in the making, muslims are an afterthought.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/04/deafschool.racial.incident/index.html

Horsesh**! This show is rubbish with crap acting, and a crap plot. Take your propoganda elsewhere scumbag. They are the aliens, and 95% of this country is at odds with Muslims. Its not the fact that religion is what divides us, its the fact that their religion preaches, condones, and encourages the executions of innocent peoples, and because of those beliefs--which is everything we don't stand for--we have said no thank you Muslims, we do not need you as friends. Muhammed was like David Koresh.

Problem with Muslims in general and specially Pakistani Muslims-is they never accept their mistakes, and never accepted or took responsibility of the consequences of their wrong doings.
Muslims never condemned the Islamic terrorists of their heinous crimes, they committed against humanity on 9/11 and since then they continued afterwards in many occasions over many places of the world, and killed thousands and thousands of innocent people of other faiths, and also Muslims included.
They always tell that these Islamic extremists are very few in numbers and nothing to do with majority of Muslim societies. But they blissfully forget that these Islamic terrorists have come from Muslim families, their relatives, and local Muslim societies. And many will accept my view that these misguided Muslim Youths have received teaching of hates from their local masques, where they were brain washed by their Radical clerics. These Muslim clergyman teach their disciples how to hate others with different faith holders, and pray for these other faith holders of their total destruction. My point here is that the whole muslim societies are been hijacked by these extreme religious teachings. I also believe that most of the law abiding Muslims are living in fear of their own religion.
I was in Bradford, England on that fretful day of 9/11. In the evening time I was surprised to see that many neighbour Muslim families are distributing sweets and flower bouquets each other and inviting each other to attend for dinner and festive parties, they organized hastily. That day about thousand people died in Twin tower blasts, where one should expect to be in true Mourning Mood, but unfortunately I observed the opposite were happening in Bradford, and other parts of UK, where Muslim communities are congregated.
I like to advise Mr. Eboo Patel, better start your own soul searching, identify the problem exists in Muslim society, and take corrective action to cure it, plus desist from blaming others for your own creation of mistakes and wrong deeds.

Victoria Says

"ARIF- are you DAFT????
your statement- "6. TV/movies are bad, they promote scantily clad women" did you happen to notice this is an article ABOUT A TV SHOW???"

Aliens in America is full of zoom-in t*t shots and sexual innuendo. Arif is correct. I'm sure Muslems will watch Aliens in America but- this TV show will corrupt many more Muslems than it converts Americans. No one I know would want to watch it.

"STEVE MORRIS- i really dislike that term "moderate muslim""

I agree. There are Muslems and ex-Muslems. Victoria has shown in her posts that she dislikes America and is an avid Muslem. She seems to think being born in American is a free pass. She's apparently never heard of Islamotraitors like Adam Gadahn or John Walker Lindh.

"DG:

There are intolerant Muslims, and there are intolerant Christians. I believe that liberal Muslims and liberal Christians have more in common with each other than with the fundamentalist versions of their own faiths. The fundamentalists make a loud noise, what we need is for the liberals on both sides to come together and make a louder noise. Hello? Are you out there?"

I completely agree with this assessment. I have many Muslim friends who treat me like family and I have also met their orthodox family members who made me very uncomfortable with their religious views. The problem is not religion in particular but fundamentalists, and you see fundamentalists in 3 of the 4 major faiths in the world - Islam, Christianity and Hinduism.

I work at a manufacturing plant here in suburban Columbus and have come across many a worker who has asked me to accept Christ in my life. I politely told them that I am a Hindu and yet they would keep going on. My point is, that I can respect their beliefs, accept their actions as having good faith, but do not like being proselytized to by any body else, esp since I am an agnostic.

I do believe in a country's prerogative to choose who they want to allow to assimilate in their culture. Norway only allows those people to immigrate who are not offended by images of same-sex couples or PDA's as it is a part of their culture. America should also have this right to reject immigrants who, for cultural or religious reasons, cannot accept the societal norms in her cities...

I think that the stupidity present in America today is surprising. It is absurd to think of muslims as so different from us, because they worship the same god and most of the same prophets as Jews and Christians. They celebrate the life of Christ, Moses, Abraham and many other shared prophets. To connect this muslim character with terrorism would be the same as connecting any protestan with the KKK. There are extremists in every religion and our stupidity is starting to get noticed. We are seen around the world as know-it-alls that know nothing and in significant way it is true. I stick by my belief that religion is tearing society apart and shoud probably not exist, but since it does it is crucial to NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. We are all part of the same community here in america and that community is based on acceptance. Our differences shouldn't make a difference, and anyone who connects muslims with terrorists is not only ignorant, but dangerous.

I think that the stupidity present in America today is surprising. It is absurd to think of muslims as so different from us, because they worship the same god and most of the same prophets as Jews and Christians. They celebrate the life of Christ, Moses, Abraham and many other shared prophets. To connect this muslim character with terrorism would be the same as connecting any protestan with the KKK. There are extremists in every religion and our stupidity is starting to get noticed. We are seen around the world as know-it-alls that know nothing and in significant way it is true. I stick by my belief that religion is tearing society apart and shoud probably not exist, but since it does it is crucial to NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. We are all part of the same community here in america and that community is based on acceptance. Our differences shouldn't make a difference, and anyone who connects muslims with terrorists is not only ignorant, but dangerous.

I think that the stupidity present in America today is surprising. It is absurd to think of muslims as so different from us, because they worship the same god and most of the same prophets as Jews and Christians. They celebrate the life of Christ, Moses, Abraham and many other shared prophets. To connect this muslim character with terrorism would be the same as connecting any protestan with the KKK. There are extremists in every religion and our stupidity is starting to get noticed. We are seen around the world as know-it-alls that know nothing and in significant way it is true. I stick by my belief that religion is tearing society apart and shoud probably not exist, but since it does it is crucial to NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. We are all part of the same community here in america and that community is based on acceptance. Our differences shouldn't make a difference, and anyone who connects muslims with terrorists is not only ignorant, but dangerous.

I think that the stupidity present in America today is surprising. It is absurd to think of muslims as so different from us, because they worship the same god and most of the same prophets as Jews and Christians. They celebrate the life of Christ, Moses, Abraham and many other shared prophets. To connect this muslim character with terrorism would be the same as connecting any protestan with the KKK. There are extremists in every religion and our stupidity is starting to get noticed. We are seen around the world as know-it-alls that know nothing and in significant way it is true. I stick by my belief that religion is tearing society apart and shoud probably not exist, but since it does it is crucial to NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. We are all part of the same community here in america and that community is based on acceptance. Our differences shouldn't make a difference, and anyone who connects muslims with terrorists is not only ignorant, but dangerous.

I also find it disappointing that American-born actors of foreign descent can't seem to play Americans either on stage or on screen. Why is it that at this day in age, the portrayal of Americans generally features white people, and in a growing number of instances, African Americans? 'Aliens in America' reinforces the disillusionment Hollywood has that foreigners are foreigners, regardless of their backgrounds and that they are make up a negligible and deplorable portion of our society. They need to wake up and realize they're not much different from anyone else in this country. Rather than highlight these differences, as this tv show does, they should produce a show in which the relationships between people of different ethnic backgrounds are part of everyday life: not something to be scrutinized or over-analyzed.

It saddens me to see people in this country who claim to be proud Americans having disgust and even hate for Muslims in their hearts. Many of these same folks claim to be christians. Ironically, while they whole-heartedly support the so-called "war on terror", they know very little about the facts. They could not name the Iraqi president, the capital of Afghanistan or even describe the basic differences between Shiite and Sunni What message are they sending to the world? Hypocrisy and hubris! Like Henry Ford once said, "You can get a Model-A in any color you want as long as it's black."

This show is apparently a takeoff the unfunny Canadian 'comedy' Little Mosque On The Prairie, where sensitive fun-loving Muslims show small town Canadian hicks how to behave.

In other words, it's total BS.

Victoria Says

"ARIF- are you DAFT????
your statement- "6. TV/movies are bad, they promote scantily clad women" did you happen to notice this is an article ABOUT A TV SHOW???"

Aliens in America is full of zoom-in t*t shots and sexual innuendo. Arif is correct. I'm sure Muslems will watch Aliens in America but- this TV show will corrupt many more Muslems than it converts Americans. No one I know would want to watch it.

"STEVE MORRIS- i really dislike that term "moderate muslim""

I agree. There are Muslems and ex-Muslems. Victoria has shown in her posts that she dislikes America and is an avid Muslem. She seems to think being born in American is a free pass. She's apparently never heard of Islamotraitors like Adam Gadahn or John Walker Lindh.

Tarik

I skip lunch 200 days a year, perhaps more. My first meal is cereals and a banana and then my next meal is when I get home. I do drink lots of liquids as not drinking liquids is a sin against God.

The Islamic Ramadan is not fasting, it is merely skipping lunch.

Muhammad was 52 and Aisha was 9 when they married and sexually consummated their marriage. Muhammad followed an Arab custom in marrying a child who had her first menstrual cycle. This action must be questioned, regardless of it being a cultural norm, because Muhammad's action and teachings on marriage established an Islamic precedent: a girl is judged an adult following her first menses, and is eligible for marriage and sexual relations. Thus Muslim men are allowed to marry and have intercourse with young girls who have happened to have an early first menstrual cycle. As will be shown, this leads to physical and psychological damage to the child.

Most Western people know it is not in a 9 year old girl's best interest to engage in marriage and sexual relations with a 52 year old man, regardless of the cultural setting. We know that, in our culture today, a person doing such a thing could possible be sent to prison for sex with a minor, statutory rape, or other related laws. Most of us find it questionable for Muhammad, a self proclaimed prophet of God, to do such a thing. We expect a real prophet to know better, or at least hear from God on the matter.

What is more critical than Muhammad's single action with Aisha is that he taught that a girl is considered an adult following her first menstrual cycle. He also taught that his followers were to follow his "sunnah" or lifestyle. Thus today, throughout much of the Mideast, girls as young as nine are often married by men old enough to be their grandfather.

There are a number of sources, all written by Muslims, that detail Muhammad's marriage and consummation with his young child-bride - Aisha.

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH BUKHARI

I have used Bukhari's Hadith, translated into English by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, at the Islamic University in Medina. Bukhari's Hadith is considered authentic by the majority of Sunni Islamic scholars. It is second to the Quran in terms of importance. The central figure to approve and sign the translation is Dr. Amin Al-Masri, Ph.D. Cambridge University. He is the Advisor and Head of the Sharia Dept., at the College of Sharia and Islamic Studies in Mecca.

From Bukhari vol. 7, #65:

"Narrated Aisha that the prophet wrote the marriage contract with her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: "I have been informed that Aisha remained with the prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 7, #88:

"Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).""

Bukhari vol. 5, #234 says:

"Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age."

FROM THE HADITH OF SAHIH MUSLIM VOLUME 2, #3309

Aisha reported: Allah’s Messenger married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine.

FROM THE HADITH OF THE SUNAN OF ABU DAWUD

Abu Dawud's Hadith is the third most respected Hadith in Islam.

From Abu Dawud, Vol. 2, #2116:

"Aisha said, "The Apostle of Allah married me when I was seven years old." (The narrator Sulaiman said: "Or six years."). "He had intercourse with me when I was 9 years old."

FROM THE HISTORY OF TABARI

Tabari wrote the most authentic Islamic history. It covers 39 volumes. Tabari was one of the greatest Islamic scholars and the greatest Islamic Historian.

From Tabari, volume 7, page7:

"....my marriage (to Muhammad) was consummated when I was nine....."

From Tabari, volume 9, page 131

"Then the men and women got up and left. The Messenger of God consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old. Neither a camel nor a sheep was slaughtered on behalf of me"......(The Prophet) married her three years before the Emigration, when she was seven years old and consummated the marriage when she was nine years old, after he had emigrated to Medina in Shawwal. She was eighteen years old when he died.

QUESTIONS

1) Muhammad and Islam establish the right to marry and have intercourse with any girl who has had her first menstrual cycle. Science proves this is bad for the child. If Muhammad were from God, would God have allowed that perverse dictum to be set in motion?

2) What consideration is given to the young girls in Saudi, Yemen, and elsewhere in the Islamic world, who for one reason or another, are taken in marriage following their first menstrual cycle? Many accounts of life in Saudi Arabia for women detail how depressing life is for Saudi women, especially for those who do not have access to Saudi's great wealth. Shouldn't these young girls be given a chance to live a better life?

3) Wouldn't a real God have put in place better, more responsible guidelines for dealing with children? Couldn't God have given Muhammad a "revelation" to protect young female children until they are older or more mature for marriage? After all, why did it have to be allowed following the first menstrual cycle?

CONCLUSION

It is clear that Muhammad had intercourse with Aisha when she was 9 years old. Since girls at that age are not fully mature either physically, emotionally, or psychologically, we know that it is wrong for a man, regardless of his age, to engage a child in sexual relations. No other conclusion can be drawn. No one would expect a real prophet of a righteous God to engage in, justify, allow, and prescribe for his followers such an malignant act.

Muhammad established a appalling precedent for Islam, Muslims, and young girls. This was not based upon wisdom, knowledge, or science, but only upon his culture, desires, actions, and teachings. He should be judged as a man who established child abuse as a norm in Islam.

Does an Arab CUSTOM of having sexual intercourse with young girls after their first menstrual cycle, mitigate the action of a 52 year old man who claimed to be a Prophet of God? Or is the fact that Muhammad followed these customs and had sexual intercourse with Aisha at the age of 9 years, while she is still playing with toys to be overlooked? That's for you to decide.

buddhist- thats rather a divisive and racist thing to suggest.
and it only works for purebreeds

what about all inclusive mutts like myself?
should i become a druid?
maybe i should worship thor?
or maybe deism in general or some brand of paganism.

or we could all just go back to the ancient religions of the archaic hominid.

yes, moving backwards is always preferable.

Dear Iboo Patel;

When did your ancesters convert to Islam and in what circumstances? Do you knwo? Please reply. Muslims all over the world have to go back and research about their past when they were non Muslims. Then only they can be rational. Islam brain washes people. You ought to go back and embrace your ancesters religion which is inifinetly more peaceful than Islam which is a political organisation invented by Arabs to rule the world.

ALI- well NO DOUBT religion has been repressed by the militant secualrists in turkey- but thats bound to change after the july 22nd mandate of the people

JON- not me dude- born and raised in the USA
rocin in the free world and still praying 5 times a day (god willing) so far

E PETERSON- ill pit my american family history and loyalty and service against yours anyday-

i practice islam- to the best of my humble ability- and have actually read the constitution
and know what it says-

im protected in my practice of religion
unless you have plans on changing that-
its a fact thats not going away

ARIF- are you DAFT????
your statement-
"6. TV/movies are bad, they promote scantily clad women"

did you happen to notice this is an article ABOUT A TV SHOW???

STEVE MORRIS- i really dislike that term "moderate muslim"
who came up wth that?
what does that mean?

im not a 'moderate muslim' im just a muslim
i dont need to be qualified

hoestly i can' help it if you dont have the initiative to do a google on what muslims say-
turn off fox news

AFZLR- im sorry to hear about the bad experience you had
rejecting your invitation was poor manners

thanksgiving isnt a religious holiday
and if a christian or jewish person invites a muslim to eat- that food is halal for them.

like observant jewish people only eat kosher, muslims eat halal- but a gracious invitation to eat makes it "kosher" for us.
there is no islamic reason for this person not to accept graciously your invitation, which i assume was extended graciously.

well, unless you were having roast pig or something. who has roast pig for thanksgiving?
i always have turkey, and mashed potatoes, and gravy, and cranberry sauce from a can cut in shapes with a pumpkin cookie cutter...

DG- HELLO THERE!

peace all and ramadan mubarak brothers patel and tarik
good for you for the smoking

There are intolerant Muslims, and there are intolerant Christians. I believe that liberal Muslims and liberal Christians have more in common with each other than with the fundamentalist versions of their own faiths. The fundamentalists make a loud noise, what we need is for the liberals on both sides to come together and make a louder noise. Hello? Are you out there?

Tarik,

Fasting for a month??? Muslims fast from sunup to sundown and then party(and smoke all night) so give us a break with your "fasting".

Also there are a billion Muslims in the world because of the threat of the sword of death if you did not join during the pillaging and plundering years of Islam. Today, the threat of the same sword if you dare leave or speak against your warmongering, womanizing, plagiarizing and hallucinating founder keeps the number at a billion. Remove the threats and come to grips with your founder and Islam would disappear.

Mr Eboo Patel

One more time. You are preaching tolerance in the USA. Yet your holy land Saudi Arabia practices Islamic apartheid which all Muslims seem to condone.

Saudi Arabia will not allow non-Muslims to visit Mecca and Medina.

Saudi Arabia will not allow churches to be built anywhere in Saudi Arabia.

Non-Muslims are not allowed to worship in public. The wearing of a Cross is a crime.

If Muslims had any decency they would protest by boycotting the hajj until Saudi Arabia allows full freedom of religion.

Could you comment, Mr. Patel????

Eboo

Every Muslim I've met in America (I'd guess around 300) starts out fine--Baseball, Weather, chit chat. About 45 seconds into the conversation--the 'religion' issue works its way in. Now, I am not a practicing Catholic but my hair stands up when this litany of victimhood starts to roll about how we have done this and that. OK, but if we carry all this over to our already overburdened lives here, it's not going to end well.

I get invited (and no longer accept) to these 'Iftaar' post Ramazan parties where the first time I was asked to wear one of those silly skull caps. I did this the first time but when I asked the same 'friend' to join us for Thanksgiving he refused--'Unislamic' he said. So from non-practicing Catholic I am now unwillingly digging in my heels defending my religion that I really don't want to.

I now resent this one way attitude. I no longer accept nor invite these guys. Are they Aliens? To me yes.

Eboo, drop this religion stuff. Become a mensch, an ordinary stiff like the rest of us. It will set us and you free

A good man is a good man and a evil man is a evil man it does not matter what religion he professes.

Islam is a universal religion that is why it attracts billions of followers from different ethinic groups. 20 to 30 thousand people convert to Islam(NPR),and I may add they do so on their own free will.
The numbers are even bigger in Britain.
Mohammad is the 2nd commonest name for new borns in Britain after John (Times of London reported on NPR).

I like being a Muslim its all good, but fasting for one full month that a little hard for me especially no smoking! But so far I have done it.

Eboo,

Americans attitudes would change overnight if all the so-called "moderate Muslims" in our country and around the world would just come out and condemn the terrorist groups and their evil (kid-bombs, filmed beheadings, targeting of innocents) ways. But alas, we hear nothing. And that silence speaks volumes to us.

In short, Americans can see past this facile proganda. Sure, humor helps bring people together. But until we see a real groundswell among the so-called peaceful Muslims of the world against terrorism, we won't buy it. And we won't trust or respect you fully.

To be fair, you must be afraid of blowback from your Muslim "friends." And for that I do not blame you one bit. Although I do pity you for your lack of moral courage.

Most alien to me is an America that rejects science, reason and evidence for faith. Faith in the unreal, unprovable myths from ages gone by and unlamented.

TV Sitcom -Aliens in America??

I find it impossible to watch a "cute" piece of fluff propaganda when Muslim against Muslim violence is rampant. In Darfur -the Sudan backed Arab Muslims are systmatically destroying the Black African Muslims. A genocide the oil rich Islamic world watches in silence.

Jimmy Carter was angered during his visit to Sudan this week. He was refused access to a group of refugees by the Sudanese government:

"Tensions are running high after rebels (janjaweed) overran an AU peacekeeping base in northern Darfur over the weekend, killing 10 in the deadliest attack on the beleaguered force since it arrived in the region three years ago.

Most of the Darfur refugees appeared too frightened to speak to Carter's team in Kabkabiya, a North Darfur town that has long been a stronghold of the pro-government janjaweed militia.

Richard Branson said some refugees had slipped notes in his pockets. "We (are) still suffering from the war as our girls are being raped on a daily basis," read one of the notes, translated from Arabic, that Branson handed to The Associated Press.

The note said that on Sept. 26, a group of girls had been raped, and a refugee had also been shot two days ago. Branson said it had been handed over by an ethnic African man."

Please read:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/03/AR2007100300300.html

Vote Ron Paul Vote Ron Paul Vote Ron Paul Vote Ron Paul

Aussie,

And you are a "real" Christian in Christian Australia???

Ok, if I understand what you're saying, you mean that Muslims are more violent than Christians but they have provocation? Well even on their own Muslims seem to have violent traditions in their own nations. The way Muslims code for women in certain areas of more extreme belief starts to become less the peaceful, thoughtful religion it is often famous for being and starts to become cruel - barbarity inflicted for incest cases, even if the incest is being raped? And the violent suppression of Kurds, or invasion of Iran, by Iraq? Saudi Arabian oil princes with no senses of international propriety? You're right, some Muslims can be more violent, but with what provocation really? The Crusades?

I don't know if it's really fair based on one statistic to say that Americans can't identify with Muslims, or tolerate them. Actually, and I don't say this to be combative, but, honestly, it is true, Muslims have a far harder time in their own native countries (in the Middle East, discounting more liberal cultures like India, Bangladesh or Indonesia) accepting the culture not only of Christians, Jews, atheists or any other fairly mainstream American religion, but also American culture in general. If on a sit-com here a Muslim would be giggled at by air-headed stereotypes, you must admit that in the real world, real people would violently murder a Christian or American, and certainly already have.

Of course, I make no argument that for their countless uninvited violations and invasions of Middle Eastern nations and their peoples by Western Hemisphere nations and Christians in particular, Muslims don't have far more reason to hate us than we do them - that is, until six years ago. But the point is that there is not as much cultural rage against Muslims even today as there is still race conflict between Latin immigrants or blacks, and whites.

Really, freedom of religion has been a given so long in our culture that not many people will try to deny it or abridge it (at least not significantly).

A real christian would be as alien as any other religion in the u.s.or any other country.

A real christian would be as alien as any other religion in the u.s.or any other country.

A real christian would be as alien as any other religion in the u.s.or any other country.

Arif..

Jasmine must be myopic. You have a great eye for the trouble Muslims encounter -not just in America but in every western country they inhabit.

I'll be sending your post around via emails. Hope you don't mind. I find your words insightful and would like to share with others.

Arif:

Thanks for that cartoon caricature of a Muslim. Now do you want to try again with a more realistic assessment. That's assuming you have ever even met a Muslim.

Some day Eboo you may get it, till then I hope you at least try to learn. As a practicing Muslim below are some of the problems you face while in an infidels country...
1. You cannot eat the food; you will never find a Muslim in McDonalds or other restaurants because the meat is not hillal.
2. Your children cannot eat the food in public schools because the food is not hillal.
3. Your girls cannot leave home without the hijjab, a captive and demeaning dress imposed for your women by Islam (your women are made to believe its a good thing).
4. You cannot work without those disruptive prayer breaks; thereby you demand and sue your employers for "special" concessions.
5. Your workers do shoddy work during Ramadan, the month of muslim fasting. Empty stomachs and thirsty workers are a hazard.
6. TV/movies are bad, they promote scantily clad women.
7. When the population of your people reaches a certain threshold, you demand that the azzaan be blared five times a day from your minarets. Very annoying and discomforting for ALL non-muslims.
8. You hold all non-muslims with contempt because their god/gods/no-gods are deemed inferior according to the tenants of islam.
9. All of you have this strange bond with the Palestinian though you may not have met one.
10. You hate Jews.
11. You are famous for creating separate homelands.

Then you wonder why your Non-Muslim hosts don't accept you?

Eboo, Eboo,

Again and again you fail to come to grips with the flaws of Islam.

And as long as the militaristic passages in the koran remain, all Muslims to include the "Alien in America" will be considered potential terrorists.

I remember when I was in grade school that when a new student came to our small town from St. Louis, sixty miles north, that we labeled them as different. Well, they did talk funny.

Any religion that denies human rights to women as a matter of course, is incompatible with American values. Ferociously intolerant of women, gays, agnostics, athiests, let alone members of other religions, in particular, Jews, it is, in fact, antagonistic to personal freedom, whether of religion or of thought. Emigration of Muslims to America is a huge mistake, both for the Muslims involved, but more particularly for America itself. There is no way a person who practices Islam could honestly support the American Constitution and anyone who does not whole-heartedly support the Constitution has no place in America.

SHALLOW AND BORDING ON THE BROWN NOSE ATTITUDE.... NO WONDER YOU GET FEW COMMENTS...

What an ironic and prophetic choice of title.

So many Muslims are and will always be:

...ALIENS IN AMERICA...

While the faith itself may not be at odds with American ideals and America as a nation, the practice of it certainly can be. I'm of Lebanese Christian ancestry and have lived in secular Muslim Turkey as well as Muslim theocracies. Unfortunately, many Muslims do not practice what you're preaching. Freedom of religion is not encouraged and in fact is often discouraged overtly or covertly. You should also recall that many of those involved in the terror attacks were highly educated and had spent considerable time in the West prior to and while plotting their terrorist acts. To pretend that all Muslims are like the archetype in the TV show is to deny reality. The balancing act for us in the West is to decide how tolerant a tolerant society should be toward people whose religion is often intolerant to others, or to secularism.

While the faith itself may not be at odds with American ideals and America as a nation, the practice of it certainly can be. I'm of Lebanese Christian ancestry and have lived in secular Muslim Turkey as well as Muslim theocracies. Unfortunately, many Muslims do not practice what you're preaching. Freedom of religion is not encouraged and in fact is often discouraged overtly or covertly. You should also recall that many of those involved in the terror attacks were highly educated and had spent considerable time in the West prior to and while plotting their terrorist acts. To pretend that all Muslims are like the archetype in the TV show is to deny reality. The balancing act for us in the West is to decide how tolerant a tolerant society should be toward people whose religion is often intolerant to others, or to secularism.

While the faith itself may not be at odds with American ideals and America as a nation, the practice of it certainly can be. I'm of Lebanese Christian ancestry and have lived in secular Muslim Turkey as well as Muslim theocracies. Unfortunately, many Muslims do not practice what you're preaching. Freedom of religion is not encouraged and in fact is often discouraged overtly or covertly. You should also recall that many of those involved in the terror attacks were highly educated and had spent considerable time in the West prior to and while plotting their terrorist acts. To pretend that all Muslims are like the archetype in the TV show is to deny reality. The balancing act for us in the West is to decide how tolerant a tolerant society should be toward people whose religion is often intolerant to others.

I got to see the show with my kids, being a Muslim American with roots in Pakistan, this was extremely well made. And it was hilarious.

"Given the rave reviews, you would think the CW’s Aliens in America was a major step forward in American art, something like the third part of Tony Kushner’s masterpiece Angels in America."

Really, Eboo. More Empty Spin?

"'Aliens in America': Roll Up the Welcome Mat"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/30/AR2007093001403.html