We need more faith and more reason

"Never give what is holy to dogs or throw your pearls before pigs. Otherwise, they will trample them with their feet and then turn around and attack you." Mathew 7:6

We must not forget that science actually started in the monasteries. Had not been for the promotion of sciences and arts in the renaissance by the Popes, we would not have any science at all today. Not even Galileo would have come to be. Besides people must know that many of the greatest scientist have been, and are, Catholic.

IN "MATHEMATICS & PROBABILITY'...

HOW To Catch FRANCE, Israel, England and now U.S. in a B I G -- L I E!

Psychologically spakething; Suddenly ALL Before The Elections:

First it started with a FALSE & phony, concocted 'Bin Laden message [WHO is In Fact DEAD; an they know this] message BUT YOU (voting Suckers) DON'T] now

Pleasa Oyevay!

Another BIG LIE!

"Cargo-plane bomb plot alert: w/photos of self-serving explosive devices 'designed to harm US synagogues'" Oye...!??

[Self Serving] BOMBS Found In or near Borack Obama's Home Town... la la, but Obama is Not Afraid to gout on the campaign trail. Oye...!????

Found Bombs at or Near Sinagogues, lalala Oye...!???

CIA Head? Said, lalala... Oye...!???

[Coalition Created] Al Qaida; from YEMEN did it etc.. etc.. OYE...!??

like the IShlami's are really coming at US (Keffirs) All at Once?? as forewarned? Pleazza!

Oyevayzmeer!! Weak Weak weak!

Nice Try OBAMA Admin & Desperado's!

Shame on MEDIA involved!
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Note: Between this Hour & by Monday There will be More BOMB, TERRORISTS stuff Fed to Unsuspecting Voters!

Maybe Prez Obama will be Assassinated by an "inside-Job" before Tuesday? Now In AMERICA (The 1 We used to know) Anything is Possible!

This Time, Shame on The U.S. Government & CO!

END the lies lies lies! yet More Lies r aComing ye/Yo ways! (not OUR way).

VOTE: GOOD RIDDANCE! BOY/Gal who Cried WOLFE!

VOTE: NO D-E-M-O-C-R-A-P-S Party!

STOP THE LiE's, REVEAL THE TRUTH!

STOP THE LiE's, EXPOSE THE TRUTH!

STOP THE LiE's, REVEAL THE TRUTH!..
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Remember: PRE- ELECTION -- P-R-O-P-A - G-A-N-D-A

BIN LADEN ids DEAD!

BIN LADEN is DEAD!

BEN LADEN IS DEAD!

BEN LADEN IS DEAD!

America created Him, Now They created other's Bin Ladens??: O' Shame on DEMOCRACY!

Vote: HELL-NO DEMOCRATS! NO To ENGLAND'S QUEENS & KINGS Yoke!

The BRITISH [r the Biggest Trouble Makers on Earth; Not JU's/Israel, Not MUSLIMS!]

VOTE: BRITISH must GO not Come here! Let Them (Includes Australia & New Zealand) Fight the New Bin Ladens & Extinguish their Lamps!

NO MORE USA!

AMERICA 1st!

ENGLAND LAST!
_

POiNT: ISLAM will Defeat ITSELF in near Time:

WE[i] VOTING AMERICANS {The Real JURISTS} Don't Need to see The LIE's Perpetrated by "Democracy's! Current ADMIN?

Their Act & Behavior Is Blasphemous and an Abomination on a National/Conscious Level: Hint: It will surely Boomerang with a Vengeance!

BEHOLD: The Great OIL EMBARGO IS COMING! And Revolution In Many Nations! Thank You OBAMA! Thank You CLINTON's! Thank You PALOSI's, BIDENS, SCHUMER & Evil Officials, aka Satanic VersUS Lovers!

YE art Surely gonna Shoot Selves W/out shooting a Shot. And it will start in Ye/Yo SLEEP! Ye/Yo Will Be talking in Tongues, like the folks of Sodom & Babel did long long ago!

Wow! You're soooo smart Father Frank. I hope your wife is really smart as well. Then maybe the two of you will have many smart sons and daughters who can also become priests and future leaders of the Church like you are going to be, saving many preborn.

Valedictorian, Math classes at the high school, parallel lines into infinity. Aren't you something!

And what barbaric nomadic custom of the Jewish shepherds would believe that eating a God's flesh or a man's would in any way be beneficial?

Posted by: CHAOTICIAN101 | October 26, 2010 6:50 PM
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None. That is the universally held view of both Christian/Catholic and Jewish scholars. Jews may not ingest blood. It is taboo and has been for thousands of years. (See Tanakh.)

The blood flesh cannibalistic ritual was common among the mystery religions of the region. Not Judaism.

And no. I wouldn't believe it, and, yes, it is repulsive on any number of levels.

Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Aummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Amennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.. AND now Sing

EKLAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhht-i.
.
..
...
............................. ._.
........................ ._.|._.|._.
.................... , .|._.| .. |._.|._
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |._.|
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
.................... | .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
................ ._.| .|. . |. . |. . |. . |
........... | .| .) .\ . . ..^ ..^ ..^ . .|
........... | .| . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... | .| . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... |. | . .| . . . . . . . . . .. |
........... \ .\ . . . . . . . . . . . . .|
............ \ .\ . . . . . . . . . . . ../
............. ). \ . . . . . . . . . . .(
............ /. .. \ . . . . . . . . . . .\
.......... / . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . .. \
.......... . . . . . . \ . . . . . . . . . . .\
.......... . . . . . . . \ .. . . . . . . . . ..\
...
..
.

1) Inhale 'E' (sounds like HE/SHE slightly)

2) Exhale 'KLAH' (use 't' for stop-gap in 'time') pause in a Mini Second, THEN

3) Inhale 'i' (sounds like hhii).
.
PEACE,PAZ,SHALOM,SALAAM,AHIMSA,MIR, ZHINGYU..
.
... Credits "JJ"
.
http://onwapo.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/w-e-l-c-o-m-e/

It Appears? That the Middle-East & Nearer East via [NATO] Offensive or Counter was based on a "BIG LIE" (something That Governments Do Well in their bags of "WORD-MERCHANTizing" War Games. And So

NOW, It is Time To END those "Big Lie"s With [OUR] Truth, Not Theirs!

Behold: Even Governments Must get on Their Knees or Spread EAGLE & 'REPENT'? i Say!

O' Evil Nations, Whom Know What They Are Doing, Bow Down to YE/YO Holyi EKLAHt-i, and ask the Miraculous "IT" for 'FORGIVENESS', Ask not for 'SALVATION' alone.

Note: SALVATION is Never ever by the JEW's! Not The iSHLAMi's! Nor The ESAUi's! Nor The >a>XRSTIANi's! Nor via the MORMONi's! Nor The HUNDUi's! Nor The BUDDHAi's! Nor The SEIHKi's & Other {HUMAN} PRE-APOCALYPTARIANi's {unlike Us APOCALYPTARIONi's, aka HUUMATES of} crawling on OUR (not Their) HOLYi S.Pace-S.hip momma/poppa EARTH, aka S.S. GEOiD, S.S. GAiA, S.S. TELLUSng something.

OyeVazemeer! eye givolt! Amazing, NO Grace!

As Predicted & Expected via "iNSIGHT & PATTERN RECOGNITION" abilities (power), THAT

The "Pre-Apocalyptic Run "JPOST", aka the "JERUsalem Post" [NOt The Original Secular 1] played into US hands and is once again 'falsley' & WAR-BLESSINGLY, instead-Of-PEACE-BLESSINGLY, creating artificial [intel] News or Stretching the TRUTH (opposite Myth) by attempting to COUNTER the real REVEALATION (opposite Secret or Hidden Manna, aka Hidden UMMAH or Hidden Karma..) or get boldly contrary to thee Fact THAT: Satanic VersUS Lover & Gods player OSAMA BIN LADEN IS TRULY DEAD! Nice Try!

Pleazza see This

'France says Bin Laden tape appears? authentic'?? .. in a new-tape?, al Qaida leader threatens to kill French citizens because of their support for war in Afghanistan and new law banning burkas.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=193123

OYEVAY(O' Lordy)! FarVoos(Why)? FarVoos "IT" (G_D, Not A HE nor a SHE)?

SEcret (opposite Revelation) Note: This is the 4th Time or 5th that some Syndicate (can't Mention now) who've Responded with some 'Bin Laden's Message (not Messenger) within a 24/72 hour period!

Talkin about Counter INTELi, Pleazza!

Note: This NOt a 'wicked-Leak' copycat (un)kinda thing.

THE WORLD WILL KNOW THE TRUTH [About the Death Of Bin Laden & how He Died with PROOF, beyond a Reasonable Doubt!!!) So Help me/i EKLAHt-i!

As a Duty; It's A SCOUTS PROMISE (of the Dispensation) Especially to me/my/OUR Dear Fellow sweet sweet AMERICAN(s) et al!

Dear Governments:

STOP THE LiE's, REVEAL THE TRUTH!

STOP THE LiE's, REVEAL THE TRUTH!

STOP THE LiE's, REVEAL THE TRUTH!..

SHAME on 'JPOST" & CO. (Sorry WAPO but you should spank ye little sister/brother Sin-dicate. sorry for telling!)

Praise The Holyi NO MAN/WOM! Praise "IT"!

HAiLAYOUYA to "i[WE] the People", a/k/a Automatic Born Citizenz/Denizens of Blue.Dot

I suppose if you eliminate Colbert's participation in Saturday's rally, a few more of the commentaries below would make sense. But probably still not.

The question as asked is flawed in that it for no reason pits religion vs. the Sanity rally. Where did this come from? This is not an anti-religion rally. Many of the attendees and supporters of the rally, like myself, are deeply religious.

Further, Stephen Colbert is a very active Catholic who teaches Sunday school and quotes the Bible with reverence.

Religious feelings tend to crop up in human societies throughout all of history. Reason has poked its head up too, though it appears to be much more fragile. Religious organizations motivated by spiritual ideals can do a lot of good, especially at the local community and personal levels. Reason can do a lot of good, too. I think it's a matter of harnessing these powerful human forces, and trying to prevent harm which can arise from either.

It is pointless to use reason to attack religion. Religious feelings are not based on reason. People who are devout are immune to rational arguments against their faith. I learned this from talking with my mother.

On the other hand, rationality is easily crushed by the overzealous, and I do believe there is a national shortage of rational people at the moment. Hence, after thought, I support Jon Stewart's rally to restore reason.

There is neither sanity nor reason to justify Catholics looking the other way from their clergy bashing gays from the pulpit and buggering little boys in the rectory while their Hitler Youth Pope still refuses to turn over his known predator priests and his racketeering Cardinals like Law, Mahony and Rivera for civil prosecution.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/24/AR2010102401721.html

You are complicit, "Father"

Essentially nothing of the Abrahamic religions has anything remotely resembling reason in defining what their religions are about! Most especially, the Christians, who by the way are essentially Jews who have decided that a man, Jesus, fulfilled some of the prophecies of the Torah.. and isn't it interesting that the so called 2nd coming is all about Jesus not doing a complete job the first time! In any case, rejecting the Bible all 2-3000 versions, completely eliminates any basis for Christianity. This alone puts it beyond reason which at a minimum requires its truths to be independent of any particular view, person, or condition. Almost nothing of Christianity makes "sense" and one of its few strengths is the idea that nothing so absurd could be made up, so it must be true! Unfortunately, the mind of man is infinitely inventive!

To mention a single example of thousands is the Catholic dogma of making the wine and bread into the actual body and blood of Jesus, their God! Now, I doubt that many Catholics would consider themselves to be cannibals, but if eating flesh and drinking the blood of a man is not cannibalism, what is?? And what barbaric nomadic custom of the Jewish shepherds would believe that eating a God's flesh or a man's would in any way be beneficial?

"not only is religion not opposed to reason, it vigorously promotes it."
Really? when did this change happen? Have you told Copernicus yet?

"If a "religion" tells me, for instance, that it is OK to dismember an innocent human being, you can be sure I'm not going to become a believer."

Pope Innocent IV (1243-1254) approved the use of torture to extract confessions of heresey.
Pope Urban VI (1378-1389) tortured his own cardinals.
Yet you're still a believer.

"Gladerunner,I just read your posts from a number of different columns. Well said and well supported.
Posted by: twmatthews"

Thanks, I try.

I recently finished "The Case for God" by the former Roman Catholic nun Karen Armstrong, and she makes an interesting case about how the creep of rationalism into religion beginning roughly in the Renaissance, but particularly after Newton, has changed our conception of God. The God whom we previously only experienced through ritual is now discussed in scientific terms that are inappropriate to metaphysics.

She also notes how the very idea of scientific reason has changed, especially in the last century, with quantum mechanics (and particularly the Heisenberg Principle and Theory of Relativity) have dramatically changed the way that scientists reason about the world. "Evidence" and "reason" don't mean the same thing today they meant 100 years ago.

Christians in particular made the mistake of using 17th and 18th scientific breakthroughs to "prove" the unprovable God, and it duly backfired on them in the 19th and 20th. And it frankly serves us right. Belief is not about intellectual assent, it's about trust and commitment to a spiritual ideal.

Gladerunner,

I just read your posts from a number of different columns. Well said and well supported.

Stewart doesn't use sanity as a antonym to unreasonableness or irrationality.

He uses it to imply that Beck and his followers are insane, as in mentally deranged. Stewart's humorous attack against Beck gets an extra lift by pandering to the hatred people hold toward the mentally ill.

Stewart doesn't use sanity as a antonym to reason.

He uses it to imply that Beck and his followers are insane, as in mentally deranged. Stewart's humorous attack against Beck gets an extra lift by pandering to the hatred people hold toward the mentally ill.

revjagow:
"Yet everyone has a spiritual side (whether they admit to it or not"
This is one of those statements that we’re just supposed to accept without question, like ‘no atheists in foxholes’, which is bunk.
You do not know me, my family or the first thing about us. Yet you claim that we all have a ‘spiritual side’. You don’t even know if I have all my arms or legs, yet you are sure I have a spiritual side. How is it exactly that you know this? Or is it that you merely believe this to be true? Well, hate to burst your bubble, but what you say is absurd in that all we need is one person on the planet, living or dead, to NOT have had a spiritual side to knock your claim off the rails.
I’m not even sure why you would make such a comment. What purpose does it actually serve to claim that everyone is spiritual in one way or another? What’s the downside if they’re not?

If a doctrine cannot be supported by evidence and reason, why should it be accepted by anyone? Aren't those the ones that have caused the greatest harm as people fought over them?

A very well done article, Father. Thank you for linking to the encyclical "Faith and Reason." Pope John Paul II has written a number of things that are beneficial for the whole body of Christ.

From my Lutheran perspective, I think in terms of our Small Catechism and what is written under the First Article of the Apostle's Creed. We are blessed by a God who provides everything in this created world for our good. That includes "my reason, and all my senses..." I agree, we need more reason, more logic, more purposeful thinking.

We also need more faith. I do not seek to tell every American they need to believe like I do. Yet everyone has a spiritual side (whether they admit to it or not). And that spirituality will influence how we vote. I feel that the more faith in included in the public debate, the more we understand one another. The more it is excluded, the less we understand.

Thank you very much for your both/and response, Father, and God's blessings.

Well said, Fr. Pavone!

Why doesn't the Roman Catholic Church follow Jesus command when it comes to religious leaders using titles for themselves which is "Call no man Father?"

I have never seen the slightest scientific proof of the religious theories of heaven and hell, of future life for individuals, or of a personal God.
Thomas Edison 1847-1931. Columbia Magazine.

Neither in my private life nor in my writings have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
Sigmund Freud !856-1939

Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.
Isaac Asimov 1925-1992

The bible is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it, and some clever fables, and some blood drenched history, and some good morals, and a wealth of obscenity, and upwards of a thousand lies.
Mark Twain 1835-1910 in Letters from the Earth

My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the scriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking why I should ever change them.
Abraham Lincoln 1809-1865

I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But as much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.
Carl Sagan 1934-1996

I regard monotheism as the greatest disaster ever to befall the human race.
I see no good in Judaism, Christianity or Islam - good people yes, but any religion based on a single, well, frenzied and virulent god is not as useful to the human race as, say, Confucianism, which is not a religion but an ethical and educational system.
Gore Vidal.

“From a Catholic perspective, not only is religion not opposed to reason, it vigorously promotes it.”
With all due respect, religion, and the Catholic Church in particular only supports reason (the power of being able to think in a logical and rational manner) when the reasoning supports the specific tenets of that religion.
For example, the notion of ensoulment. The Catholic Church has long and openly debated the exact point in time that ensoulment occurs. One could say this is a prime example of logic and reasoning used within the church to form doctrine. However it is not since one possible conclusion is never even considered, that there is no ensoulment at all.
So at best reasoning is allowed and promoted as long as the conclusion does not conflict with Catholic doctrine.
Another example, a statement from catholic.com/library:
“The Church also has affirmed that the illicitness of contraception is an infallible doctrine:”
Since this doctrine is declared as infallible, any discussion, debate or reasoning on the topic is strictly limited in conclusion before the debate even begins.
Having carved certain absolute truths into the cosmic granite, one can hardly honestly posit they are open to reason.

“We believe that God, as the creator of humanity, is the creator of the human mind itself. All truth, whether scientific, philosophical, or religious, comes ultimately from the same source,”
See, there you go again. With this one statement you have pre-solved every debate on philosophy and morality.
It’s kind of like this:
‘Today we will be debating life on other planets.’ *
* ‘Life’ being defined for the purposes of this debate as humanoid life forms 5 to 6 feet in adult height, with two arms, two legs, two eyes, two ears and capable of breathing earth-air.

You would be certain to enter that debate with trepidation since the definition severely limits the direction and scope of logic and reason. One might even say that to debate under such restrictions would render the whole discussion moot.
Please just admit that you allow and promote reason only as long as any conclusion reached fits tidily within infallible Catholic doctrine.