We do not give people tools for immoral activity

The problem with condoms and birth control in general is that they lead to an expectation that they can not fulfill: the complete separation of sex and birth. The CDC data says that in 15% of couples using condoms will give birth within a calendar year. Now the same data says that 85% would give birth within a given year without the condoms, so they do reduce the incidence of pregnancy significantly. However, the obvious problem is that people have been lead to believe that using a condom is "safe" in that it will absolutely eliminate the chance of pregnancy and STD.

Lets put forth a simple but completely valid example. Take a standard high school class of 24 students, equally split between girls and boys. Lets say that 50% of those students have been led by the media to believe that using a condom makes sex safe for them and they proceed to have sex using a condom every time. By those statistics, one of the six sexually active girls will become pregnant within that year. This simple math is the reason that 25% of our high schoolers now graduate with an STD, 33% of all births are now out of wedlock and we have something like 2Million abortions each year. These are radically different than the statistics 50 years ago, before ABC became readily available and everyone one understood that to have sex meant the likelihood of a pregnancy.

The other thing that can not be ignored in this debate is the dehumanization that condoms and other ABC methods engender. It goes without saying that people think differently of a partner they are going to have a child with than they do of a partner they are going to have an orgasm with. In the first case, there is a clear commitment between partners that they will live and cooperate with each other for the long haul for the good of each other and the child they are raising. In the second case, the partner can be no more than a sex toy..

DollyAngel:
“Regarding the failure rate: why are some people basically saying it doesn't matter?”
Who’s saying that?

Yes condoms fail occasionally, no one is denying that. So does abstinence when intercourse is coerced, forced, or when strong, perfectly natural (God-given) drives and urges prevail in a mere moment of weakness.

Maybe this will help explain why we don't respect your "men of God":

SAN ANTONIO -- A Roman Catholic priest has been arrested on charges that he solicited a hit man to kill a teenager who had accused him of sexual abuse. Authorities said John Fiala first offered the job to a neighbor, who blew the whistle and helped police arrange a sting. They said Fiala got as far as negotiating a $5,000 price for the slaying before investigators moved in.
The 52-year-old clergyman was arrested Nov. 18 at his suburban Dallas home and jailed on $700,000 bond. In April, he was named in a lawsuit filed by the boy's family, who accused Fiala of molesting the youth, including twice forcing him to have sex at gunpoint.
The abuse allegedly took place in 2007 and 2008, when Fiala was a priest at the Sacred Heart of Mary Parish in the West Texas community of Rocksprings, a rural enclave known for sheep and goat herding.
The family's lawsuit also named the Archdiocese of San Antonio and Archbishop Jose Gomez, alleging that church leadership should have known Fiala was abusive.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/23/AR2010112304710.html?hpid=sec-religion

I see that evidently, some people are still quite confused over what the Pope has said.
He has NOT endorsed the use of condoms. The Church has NOT changes Its mind. He is simply making note of the lesser evil of those who in their OWN minds 'think' they're doing the right thing by using a condom. It's still wrong,sexual activity outside marriage is wrong, the Pope knows it, the Church knows it, yet some in the media and elsewhere somehow believe the Church has changed Its stance. Nope.

Regarding the failure rate: why are some people basically saying it doesn't matter? Is it not evident that it would be better to abstain from sexual activity than to rely on a bit of breakable latex to 'protect' oneself?? Isn't that kind of a 'duh!' thought? Pretty obvious, when you think about it.

And today the Pope endorses condoms for disease control in all sexes and sexualities. So, now that he's said this, how do the author and the anti-condom people respond? Do you accept what the Pope says, or just keep on doing what you're doing?

"Failure rates speak for themselves..."

Actually, they don't.

Until the church can conduct scientifically rigorous success/failure studies among all categories of users, for which the results are replicable, it has no factual stance to rely on.

The most obvious flaw in Fr. Pavone's claim is that only failures show observable results: someone gets pregnant or contracts HIV/AIDS. The successes go largely unrevealed, as few people are impelled to declare publicly, "My condom worked!"

Of course we hear only about the failures; they're the outcomes that have consequences for the public at large.

Excuse me for saying so, but..."Duh!"

@dean26

I'm sorry, but your sort of foolishness should not be tolerated. This man is not a medical doctor. You are not a medical doctor. You are irresponsible for spreading lies that could lead to the deaths of individuals.

Real information on condom use can be found at the CDC, where actual scientists to actual research based on actual facts. Not some nonsense opinions on what Jesus might have thought if he had been asked about problems with a disease that he never encountered or could possibly understand.

http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.htm

As usual, our Pope's words were taken out of context by a crude and over-simplistic media always ready to seize on a story that sells.

But I think this is actually good news, because is testimony for the importance of the Papacy in this broken world. Every time he speaks publicly he sends shock waves round' the world. Long live the Vicar of Christ, our Pope Benedict XVI!!!

I am an evangelical minister and direct three pregnancy outreaches in NJ. I fully agree with the truths in Cardinal Trujillo's excellent article (December 1, 2003)'Family Values Versus Safe Sex - A Reflection by Cardinal Alfonso Lopez Trujillo. The stats on the permeability of condoms - HIV virus 450 smaller than human sperm should say it all!

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documents/rc_pc_family_doc_20031201_family-values-safe-sex-trujillo_en.html

Thank you Father Pavone for a succinct,meaningful commentary on the Pope's statement.I look forward to your continued contribution each week.

Thank you, Fr. Pavone! I agree with previous poster that sadly the media went for a good soundbite and missed the substance of the Pope's message.

We do not give people tools for immoral activity

-------------------------------

Your holy crock runneth over. You give your pervert priests the tools to continue to molest by hiding them from civil prosecution while you self righteously and pompously ignore the elephant in your basilica.

You and your closeted "Princes of Christ" in their $10,000 red dresses are repulsive and disgusting. How anyone could follow this heathen religion is beyond me.

Church teachings have helped to spread HIV up to this point. You are in no position to preach to us about morality.

For people who neither follow nor care about that teaching, why is it they care about what the Church teaches regarding the use of condoms in that forbidden activity?

Posted by: rpconradio | November 22, 2010 10:26 PM

As one of those people, I care a great deal when the Church's teachings, based on a archaic biased piece of fictional literature I might add, discourage large sections of the population from taking measures that most would argue are necessary for self preservation. Kind of contradicts the whole "suicide is the greatest sin" kinda thing when the Church won't let you save yourself.

For a mouth piece for an infallible deity, the Pope sure does stick his foot in his mouth a lot. The really sad part of this whole thing is that I actually understand where the Pope is coming from. Condoms are a sin because they prevent child birth which is part of God’s divine plan. Gay prostitutes are already sinners and living a sinful lifestyle as far as the Pope is concerned. Plus, they can’t get pregnant. So if they are already living in sin and they can’t get pregnant, why should the Pope care if they use condoms or not; in for a pinch, in for a pound. Of course it does seem that the Pope is more concerned with condoms use than child rape and molestation.

You can read the rest of my response to this topic:
http://exm.nr/gVvzV9

I will be responding to every issue posted in the 'On Faith' section. If you would like to be notified when my new response is up, please subscribe.

DollyAngel:
“It's almost comical that a small piece of latex is elevated to such a god-like stance to make it appear it can solve the world's problems!”
You folks are all reading from the same script.
There is no god-like-stance. It’s merely reality. The use of condoms to reduce the spread of disease is age-old and well documented. It is a simple prophylactic measure, not a cure-all, nor a magic wand.
If anything the Church has elevated a sliver of latex, by condemning it for its supernatural abilities to overpower/defeat the omnipotent will of God in his desire to make more babies.

“Funny how they never mention the fairly high failure rate... oops”
Fairly high? Show me your numbers. Yes condoms occasionally fail. As do light bulbs, automobiles and the RCC. And the failure rate is indeed mentioned, ad nauseum. Why do you guys never mention the ‘fairly high’ success rate?

“Yet, we're supposed to believe that it will basically stop the spread of AIDS”
The word you are looking for is ‘reduce’. No one, anywhere, is saying it will ‘stop’ or ‘eliminate’ the spread. Then again, Chastity is supposed to 100% stop the spread, how’s that working?

“Truth is what it is”
Heretic! ‘Truth’ is what the RCC says it is. Sure it takes nearly six thousand words to define ‘truth’, but the Church certainly believes they own it.

“BTW, I, too, find it interesting that those who clearly hate the Church are suddenly very interested in changing it”
It’s your church, do whatever you want inside the doors. It is when the church crosses over to try to force its doctrine on non-Catholics that we really give a hoot.
The Church wants to lobby and hob-knob with the world’s governments, it wants to impose its will and authority over them. So yes, we call it out.

Peace.

Dollyangel said: It's almost comical that a small piece of latex is elevated to such a god-like stance to make it appear it can solve the world's problems! Funny how they never mention the fairly high failure rate... oops!

From the CDC:
Latex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective in preventing the sexual transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. In addition, consistent and correct use of latex condoms reduces the risk of other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), including diseases transmitted by genital secretions, and to a lesser degree, genital ulcer diseases. Condom use may reduce the risk for genital human papillomavirus (HPV) infection and HPV-associated diseases, e.g., genital warts and cervical cancer.

Is it your objective to throw out generalizations -- like high failure rate? What is the failure rate of a condom?

The reality is the Catholic church has made a moral choice that artificial birth control is worse moral behavior than allowing tens of thousands of people to become infected with sexually transmitted diseases such as aids.

Thank you. When the media loves to take statements out of context and blow them up into something they are not, we need these honest and direct explanations. When will journalism come back to being honest and direct?

Agreed, Father.
It's almost comical that a small piece of latex is elevated to such a god-like stance to make it appear it can solve the world's problems! Funny how they never mention the fairly high failure rate... oops!

Yet, we're supposed to believe that it will basically stop the spread of AIDS.
Bravo to our Holy Father. Again, he's just telling the truth and getting attacked for it. And shame on the usual suspects in the media and elsewhere who want to put words in his mouth. Truth is what it is.

BTW, I, too, find it interesting that those who clearly hate the Church are suddenly very interested in changing it. How does that work??

I love the Pope! I love the Church! God is so good and merciful to us for giving us both!!!
If you're not Catholic, you're missing out. If you think you hate the Church, you have no idea that you are really hating God and His plans for you.

God bless!
~Marisa
jmj

The Pope continues the teaching that there should be no sexual activity outside of marriage. For people who neither follow nor care about that teaching, why is it they care about what the Church teaches regarding the use of condoms in that forbidden activity?

I find it interesting that people who have no intention of following what the Pope teaches are perhaps the most concerned about what he says.

It is my understanding that condoms do have a failure rate. When people are led to believe that using them is "safe sex", they engage in the activity more. The combination of the failure rate and the increased use makes for more of the problems we see in the world today. The problems are not the result of abstinence.

GSeeker

You said “I've never heard of any animal species getting STD's,…”

Where do you think syphilis came from?
It is an STD that originated in sheep.

Although you are right about chastity, your analogy to STD’s being only in humans is wrong.

Mark
Always seek the truth.

Why do people care about this german Ayatollah in Italy. This creep has no moral compass, his and his peons claims not withstanding. This person equates the victims of his criminal organization as prostitutes, has no right to speak a word about morality. he should not even utter that word until he directs his minions to give up those pedophiles his organization is harboring to teh respective civil authorities.

Who cares what the head ayatollah of the Catholic Church says, he is a sclerotic relic who should be ignored, as should the morally bankruptcy Catholic Church.

I've never heard of any animal species getting STD's, otherwise we would have seen many animal species wiped out, since they don't know anything about condoms. When we humans get sexually promiscuous, STDs only increase. Even when we find cures for them new ones appear being AIDS the ultimate STD. Looks like nature supports God's teaching on human sexual morality. Chastity is the only 100% effective method against STD's and Chastity can be achieved with God's grace.

I think the popes comments were ill conceived.

Although I disagree with he catholic doctrine (it’s not in the bible) on berth control, I feel his comments could form a slippery slope towards approval of prostitution by those who would manipulate his words into something they aren’t.

Mark
Always seek the truth.

This kind of logical gymnastics over nothing in order to avoid facing obvious reality is one of the reasons why I left the Catholic Church. The Church is happy enough going around in circles.

@MikeM14
So, in the mean time, you'd rather these people die of AIDS first? How is that a moral choice? How can you call yourself pro-life and yet condemn women to death only because their husbands cheat?
Any punishment you meet out is entirely after the fact, while condoms are the only thing that actually prevents it.

Thanks, father, for clearing up misconceptions other mainstream media sources got wrong.

To Sajanas, you said "Condoms are the best preventative you're going to get in a world where prostitutes, infidelity and rape exist."

Perhaps the best prevention is reducing prostitution, infidelity and rape...

"We actually have available to us the grace of God to be in control of our own sexuality. Even at a young age, we can exercise freedom to say either yes or no to sexual activity."

Father Pavone, thank you for this bit of common sense that is ordinarily absent from any discussion of sexuality, contraception and abortion. Teaching our children to "just say no" to drugs did not win the war on drugs, but it is still seen as a useful tool. The same wisdom holds when talking to our kids about sex. Parents cannot abdicate their responsibilities just because a subject is too difficult. Staying celibate is hard for kids these days, but that doesn't mean we, as parents, throw up our hands and hand out the condoms. We need to teach our children that they have the RIGHT to say no, and that it's often the best option. And we have to keep saying it until they hear us.

Frankly, the Pope's current comments surprised me when you consider only last year he spread lies about condoms having small holes, and actually increasing the spread of AIDS on his way to visit Africa.

The policy on contraceptives aside, the refusal to condone condom use in Africa and elsewhere is criminal and shameful. Sure, condoms are available, but when all those Catholic hospitals and schools tell you over and over again the LIE that they don't work to prevent HIV transmission, what do you expect people to do? Listen to accredited health care professionals who have studied the virus and the epidemic their whole lives, or the kindly priest who has helped educated them for their whole life? And why Catholic Church do this? To make more Catholics? Because it is right and just to allow people to die of AIDS, but it is perfectly fine give people medical gloves, clean water, and mosquito nets?

STDs are a disease and they should be treated as such, not as a sin. Condoms are the best preventative you're going to get in a world where prostitutes, infidelity and rape exist. The RCC seeks to discourage the use of the best tool in an imperfect world because it impinges on the ability to make more Catholics, and they have blood on their hands for it.

"Failure rates speak for themselves and are not a product of Church teaching"

What about the success rates then? Do they have a voice? Isn’t 60%, 80% success a significant improvement over 0%? Nobody I know will make the claim that condoms are 100% effective, only the church itself uses terms like 'infallible' and 'perfect'.
Abstinence as a solution does not work either as it is just too easy to NOT remain celibate. The failure rate of the teaching of abstinence-only should also speak for itself. Condom use is a LOT better than no-condom when it comes to disease prevention.
The church has never been able to enforce or assure celibacy even among its own ordained flock. Celibacy is a head-in-the-sand philosophy with a very, very poor track record. Yes the church does a noble job treating the poor, AIDS-ridden masses, but at the same time, with so much glaring evidence that these very people are not going to remain celibate, the church merely double-condemns (adultery/fornication + baby blocking) the use of a simple, cheap and very significant improvement over the status quo.