Hands that Help or Lips that Pray

of course material determinism has the same problem. Why make choices of doing anything, why take responsibility for anything. We are all but mathematical sums of a series of inputs in part derived from genetic evolutionary processes, in part due to social and psychological phenomenon beyond our control, and lastly by random variation in electrochemical fluxes in our brains. None of which allow us free choice. Thus the communist defense attorney may argue that all choices are predetermined, there is no self, and thus all constructs of crimes, justice, and choice is irrelevant. (absent due to non-existent moral agency)

Ah but he feels better when running. Perhaps there is more to being than just a series of summations. Perhaps an atheism rises out of the cultural darkness created by an elementary spiritual church with more power than depth. Thus the atheist rejects a false notion of god, but fails to twitter the idea of a god greater than the one s/he has heard of.

hariaum

Chutzpah, indeed! That's the only word to describe the vanity and folly of one who thinks he can tell the almighty how to run the Universe. As for the existence of said almighty, well, it takes considerable vanity and folly for mankind to create that, as well.

Herb: I agree completely but if you hope to engage the believers I am afraid you will have to soften the professorial jargon. Honestly, I don't know how to communicate with die-hard believers so I shouldn't be giving you advice. Tom Broome Townsend, Georgia

Hmmm, even the "gibberishing, probability-waving Homeland1" is at a loss for "words" about this twittering and inane topic!!!

Well said, Herb. Technology can't help us commune with something that isn't there!

Nice Nice Very Nice-A!

Mr. Silverman's problem is that he is obviously a Democrat and, as any Republican knows, God doesn't answer the prayers of Democrats.

God does, however, answer the prayers of Republicans. For example, when our party was in disarray after the recent elections, we prayed for a Savior and He sent us Sarah Palin - proving that not only does God answer Republicans' prayers but he does so with a wicked sense of humor.

I agree with Herb in that prayers to a non existent god can only benefit the person praying. I find it difficult that anyone can continue to believe in a god that intervenes in daily affairs with the state of the world as it is. Such a god could not be benevolent and, if benevolent, must not be particularly powerful. The only philosophically consistent discussion of prayer that I have encountered is in Harold Kushner's "Why Bad Things Happen to Good People." Kushner's god cannot intervene and is not all powerful nor omniscient. While I still don't believe in Kushner's god, at least his discourse makes sense.

Herb has pointed out that inner peace is the only possible outcome to prayer, and that not likely. One might want the easy answer that people are magic and can solve problems by kneeling in a corner. The world has some real problems, and I hope those seeing this will temper their prayerful contemplation with some personal action.

If one prays for mental peace she/he may eventually find peace. If one prays for love, he/she may get love. But if one prays for social peace, justice, lack of violence, equality, freedom, they may be wasting their time.
It seems as god responds to the individual on individual demands. Social organization is purely manmade. If some are praying on a wall and expect a response, a silly person like myself would ask what's behind the wall, and why is that wall there to begin with? What is it separating?
You can not petition the law with prayer!

Whether one uses his or her hands to help or to ask for help, the only help to be had is here on Earth. The problems mankind faces today will be solved only by social evolution beyond the warring, competitive tribes of the past.

If there were a God, would he Tweet? or text? or IM? I think he'd pray. As my grandmother said, "We need God's prayers, more than he needs ours."

I enjoy Herb's sense of humor; however, I would not want to deny, or make fun of, any actual man who prays at the wall. I have come to understand how important some folks' fantasies are to their ability to cope with life's difficulties, and do not think anything is accomplished by trying to take this away from them. Of course, if one such person asks me for my opinion, I would share it with them as gently as possible, and I know Herb to be a person who would do the same.

All else said, I agree with Herb's point of view.

Frank Hay
Charleston, SC

Had to laugh out loud at the image of God slapping his forehead.

Does God tweet? Herb, you had me rolling on the floor. Now that's one question that hasn't--until now--crossed (excuse the pun) my mind.

And the Western Wall is also known as the Wailing Wall for good reason: Nothing comes of your cries for help unless you do what Ingersoll said, as you quoted him.

From God tweets to beat feets, as I paraphrase what a college dormmate used to say. If all the religious would do what Ingersoll said, would we need the wailing wall? Not likely. Nor would we need gods or religion.

Tom Melchiorre, Editor, Secular Nation Magazine