Plowshares Into Swords

Dear JUDEO-abe-CHRISTO's & Competition, et al:

Even though OSAMA BIN LADEN is dead [since June 2007] that "9.11", like what the "SHOA" is for JUDEO-abe-JU's via WW2; is the "SECULAR'S-SHOA/HOLOCAUST" so to speaketh 'Truth' (opposite MYTH).

O' al JUDEO-abe-ISLAMICs; Never forget: eat ye "SATANIc VERSING" hearts out, if any!

"SECULARism" is the ULTIMATE 'king/Queen', a 'Superior' Reality; aka TRUTH (opposite MYTH) & contrary to ANY Ye (not OUR) "Theocracy nor Monarchy MYTH's (opposite TRUTH) [man-made] System's instead of our INNATE Holy Cosmic-Feelers-Faith SYSTEM!

An Active Shooter (a spree murderer) is usually "finished" with his murder spree in two-to-three MINUTES. Active Shooters favor "UNARMED VICTIM ZONES". Think about it.

Police response in less than three minutes from the beginning of an "incident" is nearly impossible.

When the "bad thing" happens, those involved will be on their own to solve the problem, to live or die. That is the reality of dealing with an Active Shooter.

If more "good citizens" were armed (and trained), there would be fewer victims of criminal assaults. Ultimately, we are responsible for our personal protection, the government cannot be with us every moment and I do not want them with me every moment.

There is nothing wrong with guns in the hands of these Rabis who are trained in the use of these tools of protection.

Finally, if some citizens desire to be unarmed victims, so be it. However, those unarmed, less capable people should not place limits on what the capable people can do to provide for their own protection, to, from and inside a place of worship.

Armed religions? Sounds dangerous.

Sorry--my attempt to "bold" certain language with chevrons simply caused it to disappear. Here are the missing phrases:

1. "though there are safer alternatives than arming the congregation"

2. "the organization hired professional security guards"

I'm unclear why it is that liberals' brains go on holiday at the very thought of guns, but let's analyze this (my emphases):

"And it is certainly prudent to protect against threats of violence, >. I was recently a master of ceremonies at an Atheist Alliance International Convention, where threats had been made against some of its speakers. As a precaution, >. Fortunately, there were no incidents. Nobody had even suggested arming the attendees, because the atheists there were rational enough to recognize what could happen to those who live by the sword."

What, pray tell (sorry...), was accomplished by hiring professional security guards, except to protect the congregation with guns? Is he claiming that the professional guards were unarmed? ($5 says that they carried guns, which is what rational people threatened with violent attack do.)

Is he suggesting that "professional" security guards are better shots than members of the public? That they will make wiser decisions as to lethal force? In either case, FBI statistics suggest otherwise--armed private citizens have a far better safety record than even professional sworn officers, and a far lower rate of hitting innocent bystanders. (To be fair, keep in mind that generally an attacked citizen knows who the players are--police officers who fire their weapons are often stepping out into a "hot LZ" where they have to make decisions on the fly.)

But in any case, he's usurping decisions that are none of his business. If he wants to trust his lives, and those of his minor children, to these supposed "professional security guards," that's his choice. I'd reason myself more secure, under such a threat, with the protection of fellow armed citizens. But then, I have no facts to support that thesis, except for the crime rates in all of the states that have gone from "restricted carry" to "liberal carry" in recent years. And the crime rates in foreign jurisdictions that have imposed more strict gun-control laws in recent years (there being no American states that have gone from liberal carry to restricted carry in the same time frame).

I have follow in detail the media about Rabbi Moskowitz. I belive the media has put a spin on it that is very different form the media. Rabbi Moskowitz message is not to kill people is to trian people to respond in an emergency situation against terror. Synagogues are bien target aroud the world. In israel even daycares and sometimes synagogues are protected with people with guns. Is a self defense purpose none ones to kill. If your family is attacked int eh middle of some srvices woudl you like them to die? training key perosnal to defend in a crisis situation does not mean everyone will be carring guns they will only be used in extreme situation when the polcie is not able to respond fast enough. The course that he proposes does not include only guns includes seft defense against attackers. The whole story is being taken out of proportion. Rabbi Gary Moskowitz also uses is Martial Arts to help children with cancer. He is being portrait as a bad guy because when he is not. Lots of sensationalism.

Once again, Professor Silverman makes some excellent observations. Reason seems to always win out over emotion with respect to making the planet more livable. Belief based on faith is belief based on emotions and, as such, will always be susceptible to actions such as those Herb mentions in the article.

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire

"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire

I've heard that the NRA and gun enthusiasts went into overdrive when Obama was elected. They believe all the hype about their guns being taken away by the evil Democrats. Some are stockpiling -- I guess it's a good time to be a gun shop owner. I know people who hunt and shoot for sport without it becoming a political statement. I don't get the appeal of these activities myself, but I sympathize for responsible, sane gun owners who aren't at all like the nutcases always seeing an excuse to "need" a gun.

Thanks for your article, Herb. I was reminded of an ancient story I once read in which a knight in shining armor set out to slay a marauding dragon which was terrorizing the villagers in his kingdom. In his search he destroyed whole villages where he thought the dragon was hiding. One day he stopped by a stream to get a drink of water. When he saw his reflection, he was horrified to find that he had become the very dragon he was trying to slay.

Herb Silverman always makes so much sense and is extremely moral. I can't say that I am an atheist (however, I CAN say that I am NOT religious but very spiritual(and on occasion agnostic!) One of my best friends was a life long atheist and was one of the most moral people I have ever met. One of the reasons I stay away from organized religion, whatever it may be, is that religion is at the root of most of the world's problems. We need morality, not more religion.

Free speech with a gun in your hand?

Quite a few years ago, my then young and naïve daughter, related to me a conversation she had with a fundamentalist, born again, Christian friend. Even at that early age, my daughter saw through all the superstition and religious mythology of her friend. In spite of their religious differences, the friendship persisted. Mostly they avoided conversations about religion. However, on one occasion, my daughter’s friend put my daughter straight in no uncertain terms.

During one of their rare conversations about religion, her friend morphed into her proselytizing mode. My daughter shouted at her friend, “I don't believe in God, but I’m a good person, doesn’t that make me a Christian?” I think my daughter realized her goof soon after the words were out of her mouth.

I tell this story not to focus on my daughter’s naivety, but to shed light on how people, especially people in this country, used to assume that Christian equals good, period. After all were we not now past all the killings in the name of the Christian religion so long ago?

Oh, yeah, that’s right this article is about guns.

How is it then that an atheist organization chose to do what would most likely reduce the potential for violence at their conventions, while the “good” Christians promote the potential for violence to escalate by encouraging their “good” Christian members to arm themselves?

There was a town hall meeting where there would be passionate adversaries on both sides of the issues, and a gun-toting guy was there ostensibly to introduce another issue into the mix, his macho right to carry a gun.

This raises the question. What was his motive?

This same guy would no doubt argue for his right to free speech. Does he not realize how loudly his gun speaks? Does he not realize how much his gun silences actual free speech?

Recently atheists have been bravely coming out of closets, many of whom risk their lives to do so.

However, it appears to me that atheists are not arming themselves against those who would silence them. They are seeking help from civil authorities that are more interested in maintaining order than they are in flaunting their right to bare arms.

Today, hate speech spews from the mouths of some on the pulpit, and they are encouraging their flock to arm themselves.

Free speech with a gun in your hands equals a formulae for disaster.

Whatever happened to Christian equals good?????

I don't own a gun. I've told my son a thousand times if I owned one half the people on the road would be... well, let's just say the roads would be less crowded.

That said, given the shootings in churches lately, of their own people, I say let them take their guns to church, to temple, to mosque, to whatever worship place. As long as they leave them home all other times. Better we know who has them once the Rush-ites are brainwashed into using them on others not of their own thinking.

I was a co-host with Herb at the Atheist Alliance International (AAI) convention. Yes, it was a scary situation on the Queen Mary. The bomb threat the ship received changed everything. I will never forget being called to the Long Beach Police Station to meet with Homeland Security, the CIA and FBI. I think they went to far, however when they demanded that I not bring Ayaan Hirsi Ali into the port of Long Beach.

The day Mikey Weinstein arrived to Long Beach, he had received 13 death threats within 20 hours. I'm glad we had hired the body guards and that the Long Beach police had sent us undercover agents. The Queen Mary also provided security. They were most helpful in throwing out two intruders and capturing the vandals who tore down our staging overnight.

I live in fear of strangers after having a close call on my life when a fundamentalist posed as a volunteer. With a knife pointed at my throat, I talked my way out of the situation. I don't take any chances now and not many people can get close to me. I am armed with courage and mace and have taken self-defense classes. Do not tread on me! It's such a shame that people can not be trusting and relaxed. Those good ol' days are over.

Thanks for the wonderful commentary, Herb. Good job.

Margaret Downey
Former AAI President

I am strongly against arming rabbis during services. Who knows what they might do if I try to leave before it's over.

Violence cuts across the lines that separate the religious from the non-religious, which is why we see violence perpetrated by individuals in both pools. World view is a human trait that cuts across the lines that separate the violent from the non-violent.

Another human trait is leadership ability. The unfortunate combination is when leaders are violent, thereby perpetuating the violence. Examples: Rabbi Gary Moskowitz, Joseph Stalin.